Transcripts For CSPAN Discussion Focuses On Islamophobia 20161024

Vuslat, the floor is yours. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. President obama in his latest speech at the United Nations said, until basic questions are answered about how communities coexist, the embers of extremism will continue to person, countless human beings will suffer and the world is too small for us to build a wall and prevent it from affecting our own societies. Yes, he is correct. The world is too small. And the peoples destinies are more interrelated to each other than it has ever been before. A threat here at this place in the world is not only affecting these people, this play, but the entire globe. And weve seen this in global finance. Weve seen this in public health. Weve seen this also in many other cases. But we are rooecently experiencg it in refugee crisis and terrorism. The wall that obama is referring to has appeared in our lives recently when the European Countries started talking about build up a wall to keep the threat of refugees away from them. This is going to take its play in the history as the most disgraceful human act. Unfortunately, terrorist organizations like isis, al qaeda and so forth are attacking to the world with terrorism, invoking the name of islam. This is a very big phenomena, and its a very tragic issue for both muslims and nonmuslims. Just to make it clear, unfortunately, the muslims that are that have been targeted to isis terrorism is much many more than the combination of christians and jews. So its a global problem, not only the problem of the western world. I want to emphasize this. Well, what is this doing . This is, of course, promoting the islamo phobic sentiments within the western world. And it also unfortunately in return is fueling the antiwestern sentiments within the muslim countries. It is really feeding each other both diseases are feeding each other and causing a bigger and bigger problem for the world. It is also giving islamophobia is also giving a good propaganda tool to the hands of the terrorists who are trying to recruit the muslim youth that are oppressed, that are isolated and that are not able to be recognized. So this is another education of isl islamophob islamophobia. Its unfortunately alienating the muslims, the people with the muslim faith, and they are not being i shouldnt say they are not, but theres a possibility they would not be so engaged with being a good ally in acting against terrorism. So these are all possible outcomes of islamophobia, but how do we deal with it . What is islamophobia . It stems from phobia, which is a fear of the unknown, right . If we put it so simply, then the answer is very simple. Lets get rid of the phobia. So, which is lets get to know each other. Lets try to find ways where we can engage in good conversations so that we can build a world where we can coexist together. Better conversations is important. I think its crucial into getting to know each other because unfortunately, we forgot having good conversations. When i say good conversations, i first mean good listening, which is actively listening, which is listening with the intention of understanding the other side. Acknowledging and recognizing the other side. And its also good talking. Talking not only to get your word across and to start a monologue but also to invite in a conversation and a dialogue where you can search for answers for solutions of the problem. I think media can be a big a bi facilitator in this, and i think media has a huge role in creating a language where the world can Start Talking to each other rather than everybody engaging in a monologue. Freedom of thought and freedom of speech are fundamental human rights. They are enlightenment and progress, and freedom of speech is the backbone of democracy. But it should not be exercised at the cost of attacking ones dignity. It should not be exercised at the cost of attacking ones faith either, because you know what . Dignity is also a human right. I think, for example, when we talk about especially in the term of how do we cover islam and what do we say and dont say, we most all the time find ourselves in the conversation of so muslims dont christians dont get offended with this, and how come the muslims do . Because they are did, they are different faiths. Why dont we ask questions like, so what does it make you feel . What is it that you really get offended so we can move beyond the conversation and take the topic forward to find a conclusion. Another very important freedom is the freedom to ask questions. As a publisher, i truly very much appreciate this, and its a treasure and we should vigorously defend it. But when we ask questions, do we always have to ask a question to verify the other side our own presumptio presumptions. Do we have to ask to get our own beliefs and judgments predefined, and i think no, i think we in journalism, we can ask questions so the other side is heard and can express themselves better, and so that the other side is can talk fearlessly in the field of respect and grace. We also in that the media defend freedom of speech for all costs. I think we should also start defending the right to be heard for everybody. Because if one is not heard, anger starts building up in there, and that anger very a lot of the time can turn into radicalization and extremes. This is also an important an important aspect, and we should watch out when we are creating a new language. While these might seem theoretical, because we know that the practical life, media stuff, we are facing a very tough competition. We run after best ratings, best page views and good circulation, every minute, every day, every day, and we know the best ratings go to extreme rhetorics, and we know that the loud voices and the radical voices get the best attention, so what do we do . I propose that we put these onsite and we remember our moral obligation of our profession to society. We could choose to be as media, to be a catalogue of hatred and fear and in a polarized world its also pushing media to act in such a way, but we can also choose to be a channel of wisdom, of reason, and of respect, and i think depending on which one we choose is going to have big consequences on the global peace and harmony. This morning, here on the stage, i invite all of my media colleagues to stop for one minute and think, are we really going to follow this madness of constant stimulation of fear . Or are we going to promise our children for a life that is safer, because this fear is threatening all of our safety. I think we can do this if we join forces for a better conversation for around different points like islamophobia, and islamophobia is a very difficult topic and today i hope this panel is going to be the first panel that is going to kick off the good conversation about islamophobia. Theres a beautiful, and it goes it goes listen closely to all voices, and choose the best of it. Thank you very much for listening, and contributing. This gives me more of a view of everyone. So vuslat, thank you for those observations and thank you for helping to make this happen. Let me now welcome our panel. Joining us today, and i will start here at the end is my good friend, the dean of the paul knit sau school of advanced international studies, and he has experience in the Public Sector and a special adviser to the president in back stan, and hes a great intrapreneurs in this town. And the host of the zainab salbi, and i have got Karen Armstrong next on my list and i will go to you and come back to you, minister, and she is well known for her exceptional work, writing, is that right . I have very few good words to say for the British Empire, so its rather an embarrassment. A reluctant office of the British Empire. [ laughter ] well known for her work, and she has been a driver of International Action against extremism through forging International Enter cultural and enter religious dialogue. She was instrumental in the creation for a charter of compassion, a document in which urges the peoples and religions of the world to embrace the core value of compassion. Finally, and by no means least, the minister is a former minister of state in the Turkish Council of ministers, and the grand National Assembly of turkey, and also a well known scholar on philosophy and religion, so thank you all for being here. So this is a crucial topic with fast implications for domestic as well as Foreign Policy, divides countries, and it divides societies, and divides communities, but it also has the power to bring them together, so i want to delve into the discussion. In the past years, particularly in the past months we watched europe struggle under the weight of refugees, and politicians of both sides of the atlantic caps on the number of refugees, and in the u. S. , our election is by and large provided more hate than light on the subject, so we want to provide light today. Against this back drop, i would like our experts to talk about how we can walk the line between security concerns and racism that may, in fact, create a spirit of exclusion, and subsequent homegrown radicalization. Theres a lot at stake here. Im looking to my aides here, because i think we have got a quick film that we are going to show, if its not okay, its going to come a little later then. What we are going to try and do is frame the subject, what is islamophobia, and what are the sources of it and where is it taking place and what way is it taking place, and then talk a little bit about the stakes and finally try to outline outline some solutions. I think we particularly want to focus in this conversation on the solutions. This is also interactive in the sense that you have our twitter hash tag, and you can give us your ideas and responses to what we have said, and we will srl a q a period as well and what you dont get in and can send in in terms of ideas when it comes to the potential solutions. Karen is the reluctant office of the British Empire and maybe you can lay the ground work for us to understand the extend of the islamophobia and its implications. You said in the past, before 1700, and this is a quote, taking religion out of politics would be like extracting gin from gin and tonic, and even though some of us think we may want to go on a 12step program against islamophobia, you have written on the religious persecution, so give us an idea of where we are now. It seems we have moved. Didnt seem long about the berlin wall being torn down and we were cheering, and now theres talk of a wall being built and people are cheering. Islamophobia, what is it . Its a phobia, and its an irrational fear and not on reason and a based on a gut feeling and its one of those indications of people who are struggling in all kinds of fields of life, with globalization, the fact we cannot live with one another, and we are profoundly connected to one another, and when markets fall in one part of the world they drop all over the world, and the more global we are and the more people in both religious and political terms are retreating into denominational or national ghett ghettos. Throughout history im a historian, and i often try to understand things by seeing how they have been in the past, and there have been these explosions of hatred of certain groups, and just think of the crusade, for example, and what is interesting is that these phobias often project on to a socalled enemy buried worries about ones own position. The crusade solute slaughtered muslims with great joy and brought the christian violence on to the other side, on to their enemies, and i think that there was quite a lot of that today. I know we will talk about Foreign Policy, and thats a hugely important issue. I would just like to mention some of the British Foreign policy, and i mentioned the British Empire, and we bear a lot of the responsibility for a lot of the problems today, and we go back to paris in january, and all the leaders marching together, shoulder to shoulder and linking arms for freedom of expression, when very many of those leaders, including my own prime minister, david cameron, headed countries that had four decades, and in the case of britain for over a century, aggressively supported regimes and muslim majority countries that denied their people any freedom of expression, and a sort of denial of that. I think we have got to look at this kind of denial, this kind of unhealthy irrational fear because its not something we can just sort out by telling people to pull themselves together and look at the facts. Since you mentioned the Foreign Policy, maybe you can step in here because obviously this this is enter woven with 9 11, inner woven with various policies that have been made, and its a little surprising islamophobia is as high as it is, and it was 40 after 9 11 in terms of the feelings around muslims in the United States, and 60 or more now, and you would think under a president that has been much more communetive, that wouldnt it be that way, and i wonder if you could give us a feeling of your perspective as a Foreign Policy practitioner, how do you look at the phenomena of islamophobia. Well, building on also what karen was saying, islamophobia, even the term itself bursts on the stage right after 9 11, and i think at that point we could say it was largely an issue external to the United States, and what is different now is islamophobia in a way was a policy deliberately pushed from the top of the u. S. Administration, and it was an idea that was part and parcel of the United States administrations managing the middle east relations, and the term fascism was coined and used by george bush until he was dissuaded from doing it, and 9 11 could have been construed as a challenge to u. S. Policy in the middle east as a way of sidestepping, quit examining the u. S. Policy, and islamophobia was a way of passing the blame back to muslims, and promoting terrorism rather than put u. S. Foreign policy on trial for creating some of the problems, and in fact, the big disconnect was in the muslim world, the understand was it was about u. S. Policy and the idea in the usa was it was about islam. And i would say top town in making islamophobia as the center of focus of understanding what happened after 9 11 very quickly found traction in the ae van kul community in the United States, and i say that deliberately, because the evangelical community has clear perceptions within its own understanding of faith and the end of times they directly valve islam as a competitor, and in various parts of the world, islam is the main competitor so they have a sense that islam is the enemy and even among the evangelicals, islam was not a problem inside the United States, it was a problem that was outside the United States and was in the form of terrorism or competition was threatening the United States. I would say if you looked at president obamas cairo speech, arabs and muslims criticized that on many levels but with great success, he officially in cairo, without saying so abandoned islamophobia as official american policy. Thats a powerful statement. Thats the significance of the cairo speech. He said, this is about u. S. Policy and i will put one u. S. Policy on the table which is the peace process, and i am not going to do much about it but i will acknowledge that the problem has to do with u. S. Foreign policy, and as president of the United States, as the head of the u. S. Government i will no longer follow this track. Throughout we can see this is an administration in which the president doesnt want to use the term islamic terrorism, and the second of state it has engaged the muslim world in varieties of ways, and yet, as you say, we were back to where we were, and thats because its no longer a Foreign Policy issue, and this is now about other things that are happening in europe and the United States, so its about the rise of p populism, and immigration is about two things, numbers and assimilation, and muslims are a problem on both fronts. Their numbers are growing particularly in europe so that puts them on the radar, and they do not assimilate, or it appears they dont assimilate or are slow to assimilate, so the debate of the summer is really about assimilation. So you know, theres a shift here, and this is not going to go away if isis is defeated. Its not going to go away with u. S. Foreign policy. This is not morphed into the whole dynamic of what is happening to American Society itself to populists and to anger at outsiders, and it has to do with what is happening in europe. Of course, you know, refugees in syria, and beheadings in iraq, those things, bombs going off in paris, brussels, and merely add fuel to the fire, but i think the challenge for muslims is now much, much bigger, because this is not about defending activities that are happening over there, and its about really defending their place in American Society or the European Society going forward. The thing that is interesting, there has been a poll that showed roughly half of u. S. Muslims, so 48 , said their own religious leaders have not done these are u. S. Muslims have not done enough to speak out against extremists, and is this part of it . I think this idea that Muslim Leaders have to speak about i find that actually offensive, and the one point of having heard Everything Else that donald trump has said all along that i found particularly offensive is what he said in the last debate that the burden of finding out who is planting a bomb rests on muslims. This is essentially collective guilt, all muslims are guilty unless proven innocent and the burden is on them to prove themselves innocent, and the fact that somehow if a preacher somewhere says something, it sort of you count how many preachers have said something, and it doesnt count how many have give n tpabg was. Theres one important problem, and muslims are unique in migrant communities is that we are not in control of those that interpret our faith. They are sitting in cairo and they have different world views and priorities. But what a lot of muslims say is why cant you see us in the Diverse People we are, and we are 9. 6 billion people, and you are denying us the diversity of our identities beyond the nationalities and regions and beyond the professions, and whether i am a mother or activist or mother or religious or not, and its complete generalization. The first thing we need to individualize the process and not generalize all phus hrumusl its bad as if i generalize all christians as one, and are we talking about the issue in america and in america they are also different kinds of muslims. As a immigrant my point of identity is different than an american born and raised, and their point of identity is american, and the decisionmaking reference, and whether to wear a headscarf or not is radically different and all the pillars in the foundation of my point of identity is somebody who was born and raised in iraq, a muslim dominated country. So the points of identities is different also. Second, i did just a story on radicalization in france. Number one reason actually how these radicalized groups are being recruited is not the mosques. As a matter of fact, the imams are speaking the formal speech, do good and be well, and its all the other religion do goods, and its 90 of the internet, and informal gatherings. Many muslims are feeling in america and in europe and in the middle east its different and how they are feeling, and in the middle east i was in iraq three weeks ago and they see isis and all of that as they all they care about is this is against islam, because they are introducing a new terminology and description of islam, and thats alien to muslims themselves, you know. Its like me saying the kkk is defining all of christians, and thats incorrect. In the middle east, they dont know what is happening in america, but they know isis is against us, muslims. Muslims here and in france, my findings, and i did shows on all of these issues, they are hurt and they are scared. The ones who are sort of holding that tension is women and women wearing a headscarf. People this is for me not even policy or theoretical discussions, this is normal people on a daytoday level, you encounter and i am encountering who keep on presuming negativity about your aspect of your basic identity. Its like, you know, i feel as a muslim woman, no matter how much i talk about how i grew up, my up bringing and philosophy, i am skill asked what i perceived as hurtful and insulting and prejudice, and questions about my background. No matter how much i say what i have done in my life, i am minimized so were you oppressed as a muslim woman . This, to me, is a really important point for the audience and for us, which is who is suffering from islamophobia. And what you are bringing out here is if i am reading you correctly, women, in particularly women who wear headscarfs, so the victims of islamophobia are first and foremost this group, and again, as you look at the 1. 6 billion muslims in the world, only 300 million of whom are in the middle east, by the way, and 220 million in indonesia, and so is that what you are saying, this is who are those who suffer most from islamophobia . In the western world the ones suffering the most are the women wearing headscarfs, because they are symbolic and physically different, and the assumption of islamophobia, people are afraid, and if you ask people what they are afraid of, and they are afraid islamophobia will impose sharia in america or france, and you say, no, we came to this country because we like the constitution. Why do you assume . Not a lot of people know what sharia is . Its not something you grow up thinking about it. And what is also assumed, muslim women are oppressed, and so the muslim women who are wearing the scarves, its a physical difference, and they are oppressing these women of acts of violence, social media violence, harassing and throwing beer on them, and violence is happening in states like minnesota and other places. So what is happening is sort of a reaction, and the muslim women are going to do it to prove i am not an oppressed woman, i am doing this, and they are also afraid, and they are saying we are afraid, and muslims are afraid to say i pray, and they are afraid to say i dont eat pork because if they say that they will be assumed they are radicalized. They have a right to be afraid, because, again, if you look at history, when these phobias blow up, they have often been succeeded by appalling actions, and i didnt get into all of this because i am filled with peace and love and compassion, and i got into it because i felt a sense of dread, and it began with the salmon russian crisis. I was appalled by the way british even tspwepb t intellec. We have learned nothing in europe since the 1930s. It was precisely this kind of talk where you siphon off one person, and miniaturize their identity in the way you described, and it made it possible for hitler to do what he did. It was at the end of that decade, there were concentration camps again on the out skirts of europe with muslims in them, and if these kind of catastrophes can happen in places like germany, which was the most enlightened and civilized country in europe, and a leading player in the enlightenment, and yugoslavia, as we used to call it, we had muslims and jews and christians coexistsed amicably for decades, and we should all be afraid unless we lose our western soul by giving into these, all the things we value and are celebrated in this city with all your shrines, and its like a holy city of great president s and their scriptures and words behind them speaking about equality, toleration, pluralism. None of us have held to those. The British Empire certainly did not hold to any of those, and america has had its problems, too. But nevertheless, that vision is precious and never been more important now, and i fear, too, that we are in danger of losing ourselves our western selves. Minister, you sort of wear a couple hats coming to this issue, and one of them is having explored the interactions of politics as a theoretical professor, but also a turkish minister of state, and give us your thoughts what you heard thus far and perhaps also talk about whether this theme plays a role in any way in turkeys role in europe and interactions with its european neighbors. I think you have to start with the concept itself. Today it requires a kind of analysis, and so it is a modern concept to begin with, and the term is new, perhaps, islamophobia, and it has been here since the beginning of the 20th century, and a frenchman wrote a book, and it was it was the view in light of the west, and it became fairly well known after the publication of the report on the foundation or trust which, had the title islamophobia a challenge for us all, and now it has become more challenging, as a matter of fact. So it has a psychological d dimension, and it grows it deepens in social life, so it has a social dimension, and it also has a visible political dimension, and so we are facetoface with the politics of islamophobia, and its not just one form or one simple thing, its a complicated predicate, and its before us and it requires addressing and it requires to do something, so to begin, of course, the term phobia was problematic, and some people didnt want to use the word phobia because a friend of mine says that islamophobia was there long before the term was invented, so the idea, the thought, is as long as the christian and muslim relationships and it goes back to the early days of islam, and islam was challenging and so on, but it grew in the middle ages when you had christian, and the basic roots go back to those days, so it is a powerful stream coming from history to our days. About ten years ago, for example, i had the chance to listen to the politicians, and the old European Countries, and the politics was a kind of weak idea rather than a Strong Political attitude or political idea, but now it has become a very serious political activity, and it really is a good benefit in a way for politicians, and even for example, the United States are a little bit quiet in terms of islamophobia, and its starting to become an important topic in the politics as well, and in a way the islamophobia requires immediate addressing, immediate struggle in order to make it not academic, and it was an tkeplic in the european area, and its epidemic, and its affecting all of us, every part of the world, and what can we do . First we have to have a good education. Some of the islamophobiaic is done, and some comes out of ignorance. They talk about islamophobia, for example, and they say, a nasty thing about islam itself, and so in a way, education is extremely important, in the short line and in the long line as well. Secondly, of course, we have to be very careful when we try to criticize religions, because religion may not be important in one country, for example, saying nasty things about a prophet may not be very important in this part of the world, and i dont mean in this part, this part n. America, but in any part of the world, but if its important in some other parts, you have to be careful, and as humans you have to respect the values of other civilizations. And secondly, culture is very strong in the west, and this culturism is the mother and the father of islamophobia as well, because if you say the worst of civilization is the culture and civilization, you are really saying quite a lot apart from the description, and you are not using a descriptive statement you are using it dogmatic in a way, and a normative statement as well. And it was said, a an important thing, this western idea of authority is not scientific, and its not moral and its dangerous, and one important civilization in the world, this is against our scientific outlook, so you know, he says, you know, we have an exception, and i am almost quoting, we have an assumption, and we think everybody is like us and if they are not like us they want to be like us, and if they dont want to be like us, then they have to be either persecuted to be like us or forced to be like us, and this is not just an assumption, this is something that we do quite a lot of things in the whole world, and its not just an idea, its an idea where they do quite a lot of things. This is, a, not scientific, b, not moral, and c, not the third one dangerous. Dangerous. Scientifically, as i said, because plurality is with us. Minister, you have helped us turn the corner to solutions, and so and provocatively turned the corner to solutions, and cultural education, and questioning the western idea or the western projection of spear superiority. And lets show out ideas for specific solutions . How does one address the phenomena . I think i really do passionately care about the language, and how we talk about it, because it really affects our belief system as well, and so what we were talking about, the belief system, and it starts from a belief system, that we are superior, but if we put that on the side, we have other Belief Systems in the language, which we take it for granted. I think changing the language is extremely important, and how do we really sincerely without fear talk about islam . Not with a prejudgment, not to confirm or verify our assumptions, our preassumptions, but because any guards how do we open up the subject . I think you said something very important in your opening speech about the nature of dialogue, really. Yes. Dialogue is a buzzword, if we can engage in dialogue peace will break out but as we have seen in recent president ial debates, theres very litt. When they came to talk to sock raw tease, they actually knew what they were talking about, but after his relentless questioning they found they did not know the first thing about the crucial matters about goodness or justice, and then at that point they said we have to go back to school and we know nothing, and he said at that point you have become a philosopher, and you know when you know nothing at all, and from that we are a very aupl initialant society. Everybody has suddenly become an expert of the koran. They read it, an article or something, and they know. We have got to dismantle, because sometimes the things they say are really embarrassing to listen to, and the ignorance that is involved, to dismantle us, as you said, minister, of superi spe superiori superiority, and let them shake our certaintiecertainties. First of all, i think that we have to have patience. This is not something one or two things or one or two clarifications is going to go away, because i think muslims are woven into larger political dynamics that is going on in europe and the u. S. An education, i think, has to be much broader, and its not just education about islam itself and what the koran says and its an education about muslims, and i think zainabs point is important, and theres diversity in the u. S. Ethnically, and after 9 11, when i lived in california, the largest thing was to be counted as muslims, and they didnt want to be put in that box, and their ethnicity mattered to them more than islamic familiarity. Showing the diversity of muslim culture, and the art of the koran exists, and a Foundation Group sponsored that, and its important to show muslims are not unity dimensional. And islam is not just an opinion about what the koran says or what these people believe, but its actually, i think, a great deal of problems exist on a daily basis, where all the young islams are moving up into the businesses and government and different sectors and every day prejudices they feel or face is not just about what is in the holy book or what is not, its about them as people, where they come from and what their everyday aspirations are, and i think thats not something that you necessarily can address in books, and it requires a lot more engagement that has to happen. I think the solution actually, really, in my opinion, rests in the young muslim population, and its not in universities. We cant paontificate about thi. The burden that really falls on those going to class with people and they are the ones feeling this most. Im not very optimistic in the short run. I think were in a dark period. Because . Because we its no longer about terrorism or 9 11 or Foreign Policy, and we have become entangled into nasty big forces that are going through american politics and society, and we are the other part of the immigration problem, and we are embedded in the culture war, and muslims will have it much more difficult than mexicans and catholics as the part of the western culture, and i dont know how they diseu disintangle themselves, and its very important that we are thinking about this, but i also dont think theres an easy solution. I think one of the most depressing things, you know, having a president that was sympathetic to this issue and his own middle name, you know, had connotations actually provoked worse reactions in the end. I think this causes the changing of the discourse. The islamophobia discourse destroys everything. Its not possible to have a reasonable dialogue of cultures, and its not possible to really have that rational cultural diplomacy. Why . Because the discourse itself is very dirty, and it has enormous problems, and i think we should start with correcting our language and terminology, because that really goes directly from my mouth to the heart of other people. I think these are important points. I no zainab comes in, and you have the politics, and then the interesting notion that it could be muslim phobia instead of islamophobia, and it could go on for a while before it gets better which is why we are doing this today. I just interviewed families in france whose sons have been recruited by isis, french muslims, and when the family was talking over skype with their sons in isis territory, and they were saying come back to france, and they are four generations, and the grandfather fought in world war ii against the nazis, and the son says, all the time he was bullied and all the things he has gone through, which is expressions of islamophobia, and he says, what is the point . No matter what i do, and how much i try to prove that i am french, they are never accepting me for who i am. So these actions from me and as everybody on the panel said it, they have a reaction, and they we are all part of it. This is not some extreme group of people doing the discrimination, this is all of us actually that are doing it in subtle ways. There are groups who are trying to do something about it, and they are, for example, the Methodist Church are hosting in churches and pastors i interviewed a pastor and he said i am part of the problem because i assumed things about islam and i may have contributed to islamophobia, not willingly with my ignorance and assumptions, so we need to know that we are all part of this, and there are some actions of having this dialogue to demystify and have a safe place to ask questions. Third, there are also muslim communities that are opening and demystifying the mosque, because also people are afraid of it, and the highest wave of attacks against mosques in this country than ever before, or City Councils refusing to let small mosques being built in the community, and they need to open up the moss skpbg see, and theres nothing happening in here and this is what is going on, and muslims at large, and i am generalizing all muslims in this moment need to also coown this issue, and this is not about us and them, and we are stuck in this dynamic of us and them. And we need to own it, whether whatever kind of muslim one may be, because some muslims are religious and some are practicing and some are secular and some are not and at the end its seen as a collective and all of us need to coown the issue, and some say i am a s secular and have nothing to do with it, but, no, we need to coown it and that means us taking more actions in defining what are we seeing of islam, so these are some suggestions. And we will go to the audience after this. I agree, but i dont see any quick selection to this and theres a dark period but we still have to do what we can against the approaching darkness. All these initiatives are going on, and i think we have got to start joining up some of these initiatives, and so good work being done here and everywhere, and in dark old europe, too, where things are all happening. Lets join up so it becomes more of a movement, and i think, too, we need to step outside the box and try to think of more imaginative ways of dealing with this. I write these books but its a bit oldfashioned, really, aand, and here i think the young, you mention, i never thought i would hear myself say the following words, but i really like what the pope is doing at the moment. Do you want to share your former profession . Yes, i can say that when i was a nun, nobody ever told me to take off my veil, it was far more cumbersome than anything i have seen, and he does make a gesture, and this is a world of pictures and images, and everybody taking photographs, and the young can do this, and you take a picture, an image, and it goes around social media immediately and it can shift, you know, things, attitudes much more basically than a learned article, for example, and i think here the young can help us, because this is very much their culture, and we need somehow to think of new ways of attacking this, becauseor dealing with this and attacking is the wrong word, of dealing with the problem before we are overwhelmed with sorrow. If you could identify yourself and to whom you would like to address the question. Wonderful conversation. I would like to address my question to valley. Muslim societies themselves in the sense that we all need to question ourselves and we all need to question our system of practices, practicing our own religions, and we are a little behind in the muslim majority countries, and what kind of an impact does this phobia have on muslim majority societies rethinking and moving forward with our own practices . Could you please also relate that to the backward progress of secularism, because freedom of religion basically everywhere and in the more and more Diverse Society really can only be, you know, comfortably practiced and people can comfortably lived together, and religion is one part and governance, and we should be secular, not atheist, but secular if we want to have the diversity and live with it. Good questions. Not all muslim societies are engaged in this conversation, or are reacting to it in the same way. The disconnect in the muslim world the perception is the problem is not with islam oracle khur but with Foreign Policy, and they dont encounter in a main way in what was powerfully described every day challenges to an identity, and average muslims in cairo, they are not confronted with the kind of prejudices or challenges to their religion. I dont think the debate is impacting on the ground the way it impacts muslims in the west and as a result, also, i think the larger intellectual voices in the muslim world could be trend setting, whether its intellectual voices not quite as engaged in this conversation as they should be, and thats one of the reasons why this is not moving as quickly as we think, and its easy to have a war against the terrorism, and i dont see the clerics trying to resolve the problems of fasting in the middle of summer in minnesota or are you allowed to do certain things to accommodate workplace pressures going on. Secondly, in the muslim world, you know, theres a dominant view that the west is the colonial power and colonialism has not ended and the way you get something outside of the United States is if you direct them to do it, and thats the mistake the Bush Administration made, if you have people modernize, and that encourages resistance, and many youth are opting out and the problem with seccerism, a lot of times we have this debate in a vacuum, and the main problem of secularism, it has failed in Economic Development and social development and failed in the one thing that matters to muslims which is to give them dignity and power on the world stage, so the seculars in state was in 1967, it was beaten to a pullp. Some people convert to extremism after they decide they want to join terrorism. The promise of isis was ep empowerment, and this was the first force defeating governments on the ground, capturing cities, and its defeating the u. S. , and beheadings are not so much a scriptural but its of power, and the young man who is humiliated day in and day out, and until the secular can come up to an answer with that, a concession meaningful to muslims, and there is no reason to become secular, and that would be a Major Movement in a vacuum. I think you provoked a couple responses here. I want to add one more point. In france, and i am talking about french secularism, and many people believe the extremism of secularism in france is leading to this crisis, and when you ask french muslims and they said, we do want to be accepted as we are, and in secularism, its a ridgidity, and how do we develop exceptions, and this is a french issue, and i think they are being forced to reexamine the meaning of secularism in their society, and on both sides, how do we these are maybe two paradigms that are too extreme, and what we are moving towards in a painful time now throughout the region is more fluidity, and acceptance on all sides, that i can be all of that and its okay. We have a lot of questions in the audience. I see one here. You had your hand up from the beginning, and then my colleague there in the back in the left, please. My name is azan feci, i am a writer. Thank you for a thoughtprovo thoughtprovoking and intriguing conversation. One of the things i came across when i came back to the u. S. In 97, i left it in 1979, was that all the countries that had their unique names, like on turkey, saudi arabia, and we now reduced to one aspect which is one religion, and we would call them the nonmuslim world and that religion that had so many different interpretations was also reduced to one aspect, which was extremism. I am very glad that you brought up the point that there are as many interpretations of islam as there are muslims in this world. Dont you think its about time we really feels the same way as a mother in america. And so that is do we not want life. Who would you like to comment on that . Pardon me . Who you would like to answer that question. Would you like to take a shot at that . I take you point. I think its a very strong and valid comment, that, yes, its just being put into one definition and, where as, its completely very different within muslim and with nationalities, very very different identities. Its important. I mean, i take your point and i agree. I want to make please. Im sorry. Go ahead. Im going to change and ask a question, so i i will just say very quickly, theres a sense of belonging to a community. But i do think youre right in a sense that particularly west westiners looking have lost the balance in terms of how you look at this. There has to be a balance in the middle between understanding that theres something in terms of the book, you know, prayers, practice that connect somebody who is in do knee sha to somebody who is in turkey or nigeria. These differences are actually actually, this sense belong to one community has hurt the muslim world and, you know, many practices, the diversity, say, in practice between many regions has begun to erode in favor of a single orthodox. But youre right, i think everything in moderation and in balance and thats a balance that not only the muslim world itself has to discover, but also theres a balance in looking at the muslim world we have to observe. Europe is the same, for example, what is europe in. What is europe . And scientific, that is christian euro, its lost his soul because it so i dont think we can get rid of the but we have to be conscience about diversity. And we also have to do something in pluralism. Its like its social phenomena, but you have to do something about so were running out of time, let me pick up two questions in the back here and to the side here, im sorry i know there are so many people that wanted to ask questions beyond and then well come back to the panel for a quick one minute of each to close. Please. Thank you. This is really thought provoking. As someone who has a very jaundice view of all religions, including islam. People are complaining that every religion sees itself superior to islam. The greeks have the greeks and barbarians, the chinese and the rest, and the indians and the unpure. And the muslims, we are the best nation that came into being, theres, you know, this is as islamic as Everything Else. Thats one. The other thing is we cannot talk about it, or western hostility to islam, in terms of the sacred religious text. Thats significant because the same is susceptible to all sorts of interpretations. Specifically true about the Old Testament and the koran, articles and certain periods of time what is in the Old Testament and the koran and susceptible to all sorts of interpretation, i can justify anything by according to the old testimony. I apologize because of shortness of time to answer your question. We have to talk about it and the context of the historic legacies of the conflict between the near east and the west. Invasions of spain. One final thing, for the adults, i think what we have here is a problem more than a muslim problem. All of the radical islamic groups and the 20th century, they were not from indonesia or malaysia or nigeria. All right. From say you could to. Sam bin laden, to one of these things. As long as you have a broken, youre going to have this problem. The problem of radicalism and terrorism, you dont find too many turks, one involved in this. So my words are that toxic. May i Say Something . All right. Please. Lets take the last thank you. Last question here. Well, lets have one question and well come back to the final round. Okay. My name is im a chair process of economics at the university of maryland in college park. Great panel. I would like to Say Something, which will show my, you know, very agreement and then to answer your question to all the panel members. Again, im a economist, so bear in mind. I dont think this is something we can call secularism. Im from turkey. I came to this country 20 years ago. I grew up in a secular country, i never felt oppressed or anything. Im 0 pressed in this country. America is very different than europe in in that sense. I kept being educated and then i, you know, came to high point in this country because of the way i think this country the United States of America Works which has a secular education. So the fair is the competitions failure to respond to globalization. Ms. Armstrong said that at the beginning. This is about globalization, globalization of capital markets, and the losers are of that. For politician its so easy to use, so easy to use, many of these things, this is about the failing of the politicians and the policies toward that phenomena that we went through the last 10, 20 years. In that sense, its not, i believe, the fair of the secular anything, in fact, this country, the Public Education system, the very secular one in the United States of america, and we all know the ones who are educating their children in this country, it is very multicultural, and i believe, you know, this panel is about the solution, but none of you really said about the solution. What type of education, not only multi culture, but also about secular education, the definition is about, you know, not having religion and politicians in education, i feel like theyre saying, you know, you cannot interfere with how people dress and how people worship and how people pray. It shouldnt definitely be the case that religion has no place in politics and education. If you do that, i think this problem can be easily solved. Again, this has to be taught in the context of the politicians and policies favor as a response to accommodate. So my question to you is, how your views in terms of how can you separate the failure to respond to globalization of what you easily call. Again secular define, but about religion not being in politics. I just want to go down for my left, one minute or less for any final ogs vags you would like to ask. Im not just saying, wrote a book about violence and he talked about miniaturization of identity. And i think thats whats been coming up its possible to e attack it. Were dealing with complexity here. And religion, as youve pointed out that ive said earlier in my books, religion permeated all activities. It wasnt something as soon as we got the french got rid of religion as they thought after the revolution, in which the first secular state they beheaded 17,000 men, women, and children in public. And so it didnt seem as though it was going to benign. But as soon as they created a new religion, the nation. And the nation pointed out, here we come to miniaturization, in the late 19th century, i hit british historian. Said that the new nation state the culture the emphasis on culture, ethnicity and language in the nation state will make it very difficult for people who did not fit the National Profile and with accuracy, he said in some cases there could be enslaved or even exterminated. Weve seen that and its what weve been thinking of and its what we dread. So lets be triumphant about either religion or secularism. Were meeting seeking creatures. We try and discover meaning and we also miniaturize, especially, as the world gets more complex, perhaps, the moment we need to miniaturize psychologically. Lets be aware of that. Briefly, please. If we are going to determine another meeting and other so i think we have to talk about centralization of islam, as well. Because we complain about polarization of islam. We have been discussing this issue of almost one century. But now, unfortunately, its it has become a topic of an issue of second laization. So what are we going to do with religion. What are we going to do with islam. What are we going to do with islam in European Countries. As you said, i was. Its very extremely important, we have to deal with it. Three points, one is muslim world, does not see itself necessarily as the muslim world as in when we meet each other, we speak with each other, we have a lot of hatred and now were friendly, we dont see ourselves as almost united. Theres not such a thing. We see ourselves in our nationality and different point of references. The muslim world does not see itself as its been referred to and does not experience ets in that way. We love each other, we hate each other. We annoy each other on that second. Maybe going to going back to the french the crew said and the spanish occupation is too long. Politics has an immakt on whats happen. Has an impact on whats happening. When you look at iraq it is destroyed right now. It is utterly destroyed. You cannot separate that destruction in america, in that destruction from the anger and the hurt and the pain that is feeding into it. It is, indeed, interrelated, i would argue and push towards politics what has happened right now rather than the historical one. And i do think there is we all need to reflect on ourselves. The western world needs to reflect, about its own meaning of freedom and own meaning of liberty and all of that. Because these values are being threatened right now by the west within the west. And i do believe muslim world is does need to be forced to not force, does need to reflect on itself as well in this point of identity and thats to the point of all of these things, there does need to be self reflection and how do we come out of it. It is a point of intention right now and were all part of this cocreation of it. Whats going to happen, i dont know. Its a problem of identity. It is a problem from lifing in the world. It is partly has been basically landed on them in recent times. Within our lifetime. It can change the map as we know it. Even in this country it can play a very important force in terms of the kind of politics that that will dominate. Its not just about understanding. It really is a bigger political problem and in some ways, i think, were at the point where, you know, these kind of identity politics is a problem for everybody. And it requires much much bigger, much Bigger Solutions going forward. So if i were to say, you know. Many things have been told about islam aphobia. In the end its a reflection of the polarization and being intolerant. What we made about the failure of secularism, which i would love to have discussed for longer time because i really do think thats not wanting your culture its about coexist tense. But when we come to islam aphobia, i think we should also be thinking about how this radicalism is going to a stage where we can talk about issues. Otherwise its today its islam aphobia but there are many phobias within the culture. Youre going to applaud them, were going to move stage right, were then going to pull down a screen for a three minute sneak preview of a video, weve been preparing here as part of our effort to debunk islam phobia in the United States. You have the hashtag, which is beyond islam phobia, this is not going to be distributed yet broadly except for the Television Cameras at the that are at the bag, and were still going to make some edits and changes to this. Well actually take your advice, make this an interactive conversation both about the panel what youve heard today. Also any additional ideas that you would have for this three minute video of things we ought to be saying about muslims around the world. Round of applause for our panelists the today the secretaries of the army, sneeve and air force discuss security. Hosted by the center for a new american security. Watch live at k89 a. M. Eastern on cspan 2. Later in the day, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former congressman Patrick Kennedy discuss strategies for battling opioid addiction. Cspan brings you more debates from key races. Live on cspan the Pennsylvania Senate debate between pat too manyy and katy mcginty. Wednesday night. A debate for the Florida Senate between marco rubio and patrick murphy. And thursday night at 8 00 eastern republican senator kelly ayotte and Maggie Hassen debate for the New Hampshire senate seat. Follow key debates on the span network. As the nation elect as new president in november will america have its first foreign born first liedy since louisa azasms or a former president as first gentleman . Learn more about the influence of americas president ial spouses from cspans first lady. Now available in paperback first ladies gives readers a look into the personal lives and impact of every first lady in american history. First ladies is a companion to the series. Each chapter also offers brief biographies of 45 president ial spouses and archival photos from their lives. Now available at your Favorite Book seller and also as an e book. Comings up next, q a with author jd vance. Then at 7 00 we open our phone lines and take a look at todays headlines on washington journal. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions Copyright National able satellite corp. 2016] i think just the weird nature of the election this year has caused a lot of people to ask who are these voters that are often supporting donald trump but seem to be making waves in a number of different ways. Spent a lot of time in eastern kentucky. My grandparents were appalachian. Orked in steel mental illness. Mils. 6,000 people. Them a good wage. But a lot of the problems they thought they were escaping in jackson have just presented themselves in middletown, ohio, too. So you see a lot of the same problems that exist in jackson, from the family breakdown to exist in jackson, from the heroin epidemic to homelessness, joblessness now characteristic of this part of the country. I wouldnt say its destitute, just because theres still a lot going on in southwestern ohio, so folks are still able to find decent jobs. The poverty rate isnt quite as high, anem