Not gotten to the point of major momentum yet. It is starting to percolate again on capitol hill. Host we have a quote from senator kirk. We cant hide. We need to think about how to defeat this threat technically. We should let them make the decision as they are booking. That would restore a lot of confidence in the system. Faa toushing the encourage airlines to do this. How much power does the faa have . How much would have to move through congress for any change in Defense Systems to occur . The question of who would fund it is an issue that has to be resolved by congress. Regulations, i do think the faa could do it on its own and mandate that the airlines do this. To intervene on the money and the regulatory side. Host lets explain how these antiMissile Systems work. Can you explain to us the technology . Guest there are a variety of different technologies. That are not even on the planes. How do you counter these kinds of attacks . We havercial airliners examples of them being used on air force one. Infraredirectional countermeasure. It is a laser that jams the Guidance System of an incoming missile. It would send it would send of course. There are heated flares that would distract the heatseeking Guidance System of the muscle. Those are examples of ones that would defend against against shoulder fired missiles which are not the ones that shot down and make 17. The malaysian airline. We have aluminum foil pieces that you dropped from a plane in a cloud. It distracts the radar guided missiles. There is a coded decoy hitched to a wire the distracts the radar guided Missile Systems. Depending on what kind you are talking about, different systems work than other kinds of systems. There is a different kind of shoulder fired missile that doesnt use radar or doesnt use heatseeking as its Guidance System. There are laser beam writers. Theys are the harder to defeat. They are the less common out there. The defenses against those are harder. When we are looking at the kinds tothings that would respond radar guided missiles, you he put some of those in place and would be difficult for a commercial airliner to do the next thing to avoid those kinds of missiles. You need to maneuver. In the military are quite capable of defending against that kind of attack. It is not easy. They are able to outrun the missiles more or less. A commercial airliner cannot do that. That is the major problems. A shoulder fired missile attack is easy to defend against. There are downsides to all of these technologies. Host it sounds like there are multiple threats and systems to defend against them. This is all insanely complicated. How much training with the commercial pilots need in order deployge or deploring these . Guest some of them are fairly automatic. It is active and detecting the threat by itself. There are other kinds of systems you would need to have something on board alerting the pilot what was happening. Then they can act by dropping flares. That might be relatively easy. It is not something the airlines are eager to add to their list of responsibilities for pilots. It would be something that would require additional effort them to get up to speed on. All of these systems might affect the maneuverability of the plane. Youre adding some into the outside of it. That is another issue as well. Host do these technologies by time . Or do some of them the flex the missile altogether . Guest the laser system which you do missile off course. Question what happens to the missile after it does at the plane. That is a legitimate safety concern. It the flares would distract away. There would be a what happens after in some cases. It would not be as much of what the pilot does. And jamssystem reacts the missile or distracts the missile for a shoulder fired missile, theres not much more the pilot has to do. If youre talking about the kind of missile that shot down the pilotian airliner, the would have to maneuver the plane like a fighter jet and a commercial plane cannot do that. Host you can join the conversation. We are going to go for it our first color. That is catherine from ohio on the democratic line. Caller good morning. My question is how would you pay for it . We refuse to pay for everything. How would we pay . With the taxpayer pay for it. I am sure a rich man would never pay for it. He would want a poor person who makes minimum wage to pay for it. It all sounds good. I think we are way ahead of ourselves. If we would as a world leader column down and stop saying that war is the answer, war is not always the answer. Sometimes it is best to have a civil conversation. Guest that is the question actually of what we have not done this yet. There are a number of related questions. The biggest one is cost. There was an estimate by the government that doing this would cost 43 billion over 20 years. The cost would eventually go down as we got the technology better. Not decided or put the focus on the budget. Funding endedthe for the program. There was a real focus on the cost. Some of the companies were saying it sounds like an awful lot of money. You are talking about one dollar extra per ticket. The airlines did not like that idea. They tend to not like the idea of costs theyre not impose themselves. That was a real hold. The taxpayer issue would be a big win. It isgress funded this, not funding a lot of programs at 43 billion. That was a huge issue. There are a lot of issues as to why this did not happen. There are issues of life reliability. If you edit the reliability and the cost and the nature of the threat and some say she safety issues, that is where it got derailed. Not getting into the war issue is much, one of the things people talk about and the best way to not have this situation like this happen is to not have fights flights in war zones. There was some backlash when there was a temporary ban on flights to israel. There are some other ways to address this other than technology on airplanes. These are related to policy. We can get rid of them in the field. There are other policy ways besides the technology question. Host you wrote a story for roll call this week. That the department of Homeland Security that 60 billion dollars. In 2005. Illion there has already been efforts to put a lot of effort toward these Defense Systems. In terms ofthis go coming up with something usable in a commercial space . Guest they were field tested. There was some progress. A lot of the systems came over from military applications. The technology has been out there for a long time. The issue was trying to figure out how to get them on commercial airliners in a way that was least distracting and difficult. Is not worried about what happens to the missile after it is derailed or what happens to flares that drop or the chaff. Systems have been in israel they have a system called sky shield. It is very similar to what i just described with the laser jamming. They also have been using the flares for a while. There was a protest over the safety of that. Theyve been switching over to this laser guided system since. There are systems like this being used. In terms of what happens to the ones that we were developing, that is basically where they were. Host our next caller is lisa from las vegas, nevada. Caller hi. That werenteresting still talking about putting missiles on airplanes. Are goingoubt there to be as sensational as they were in 9 11. I am more it about what is going on all over the world. Look at iraq. They have chemical weapons. Theyre going to come over here and do whatever they want. , 43ntiMissile Systems billion over 20 years . Would that be appropriated through the senate or what . In the process of reporting on this, people said are we talking about putting missiles on planes to shoot down other missiles . That is not what is happening. In israel there is the iron dome system that has been in the news. It is a groundbased system that intercepts incoming rockets. It shoots a missile at a missile and destroys it that way. Be outfitting the planes with missiles. That is part one. Part two, this is something of a related worry. When you look at how some of these shoulder fired Missile Systems proliferated in his been because of four. To the these systems rebels and afghanistan who are fighting the soviet union. They stayed up there in the field. Have ended up being mixed around and ended up in the hands of bad guys. 2003, there was an attempt to shoot down a civilian aircraft in iraq. Overall threats, i think most everyone would say yes. The likelihood of these kinds of attacks is lower. There have been approximately 40 attempts to shoot down airliners using these kinds of missiles. Sorry. Im there have been 40 hits. There been more attempts. Were not talking about a major number of these attacks happening or being successful. None of those a been successful hits on u. S. Airliners. There is a legitimate question about the threat posed by these been severe. The people advocating for them would say you need to look at the damage that has been done to an economy by any kind of plane crash. Especially one that was caused by terrorists. Economicgive the damage and the 43 billion we would be spending, it is a worthwhile expenditure. The question about how it would be paid for we talked about earlier. That is not been determined. We are at the idea stage in this. No one has said it would be paid for this way. It might be by the passengers and airline fee. It might be paid for by the taxpayers. Aboutwe have a tweet armed airlines are admission that safety is a myth. How concerned should we be about the safety of air travel right now . This is where we have done the most work since 9 11. There are so may ways in which air travel is a significant lycee for them it was after 9 11. You can see it at the airport. Everything is going through bomb detection systems. The cockpit doors are harder to hijack. A creative bomb maker would probably still be able to get an attack through. They have not been able to so far. It is easier to talk about the vulnerabilities, which are real, and to imagine ways that you to a commercial airliner that is to actually pull it off. Attempts we have had since 9 11 have failed. Dont have to be innovative to the point of bizarre things like an underwear bomb. You can get anywhere. As peopleis make fun of that, it was close to successful. Air travel is safer but it is not fully safe. This is an example of a way where you could imagine a terrorist attacking the United States and being successful. It is not easy. Planes withese these kinds of missiles, you are talking about landing a very narrow window in which these planes could be edible. That is difficult. It is difficult to get these weapons into the United States. It is difficult to get them near airports. There are other systems out there that might defend against even that threat. Maybe theyre not use that much. Just getting into the vicinity of an airport with one of these missiles would not be the easiest thing. Is much harder to attack a plane that was before. Host ronald is only independent line. Caller what we do this. Instead of spending all this money to equip a commercial jet, it is not going to out run a missile. It would cost a fraction of what it would cost to equip a person commercial jet. They are causing the pilots more problems. You have to draw a line somewhere. They cut the snakes head off and that would and the problem. Terroristssed these with these weapons. Guest that is a very good point. It is something that we are trying to do. Its another one of those things that is hard. The state department and Defense Department all have programs aimed at helping countries secure these weapons. Once they get out into the field, the numbers are difficult to depend on how many may be out there. Between 500,000 to 700,000 that are unsecured. If you look at the number that we are gotten back, talking about thousands that we have been able to take out of the field. These things are very cheap relative to other kinds of estimates of terror. Theyre on the black market. It is certainly the kind of thing that everyone agrees they should be doing. They should be keeping them out of the field. As of right a valid policy point. I wouldve enough of it . Frank is from illinois. Caller i am wondering if i am going nuts. You are talking about equipping defensive airlines. I think you are crazy. Worry. Uld we our satellites will tell where they came from into seconds and then you level the whole area with 26 bombs and that is the whole problem. Does that make sense to anybody . Guest not a whole lot. Finding out who is firing them off and whether we can detect them. We are generally able to find them. In terms of dropping 26 bombs on the area where it is shot from, these are areas near airports where there might be people. That would be the real concern with that kind of approach. Hard and that makes it make a targeted are you are talking about one person. What makes this an effective you canl weapon is that fire the missile and begun. It is not easy to find you after that. These things are happening in the war zones. We have some a lot of visibility where we are aiming our satellites and amy our surveillance distance on them. Things that is being , there is a project that would have drones hovering overhead and monitoring with a laser the potential for attack around an airport and then jamming them from high up in the sky. Be purposelywould reasonable. It is not easy to just say were going to bomb that area betrayed it might be near where there are civilians. About not talking commercial airliners in the United States. Placese going to obscure that might not have as much security as we do. That would be another real issue. Seewe going to be able to from a satellite someone fire one of these and be able to do silly respond. Person would already be gone and we would be bomb in an area where they are no longer at. Host this was not a new idea. There were calls for this after 9 11. The anniversary of the 9 11 report. There were several lawmakers resting for this back in 2003. They held a new conference in which they showed one. Outdid this effort die really asleep . Previously . How will it move forward this time . Effort ande was an the 9 11 commission was worried. In 2004 passed a law the took on a wide variety of recommendations. This is one of them. Congress and were going to do something about these shoulder fired missiles and this bill. Issue that talked a little that cost was the big impediment. This is not something that and decided itt wasnt worth the cost. There were issues of muirfield testing the systems. You had to replace the systems every 300 hours. That was other problem. The reliability never got to a level where people wanted them to be. We are mored, concerned about the budget in 2014 than we were in 2010 or 2003. We are not going to be any more inclined than we were then. The threat then was much more real. There was an attempt in 2002 on the an israeli airliner in kenya. It raised a lot of attention to the subject. Fromaw a big push senators. That was when the big push happened. That is when everybody was really thinking about it and worried about it. Colin powell said it was a threat to commercial airliners. We have had more concerned about the budget. Congress in the house has moved more toward an antiregulatory stance. They dont want to them pose new rules on businesses. Likely unless are aing happens we reactive culture. Likely toe much more mandate this kind of thing you if there was a successful attack on a u. S. Airline. The other issue is even if we do put commercial airline defenses on these planes, youre not going to be able to address the kind of thing that happened with the malaysian airliner. That makes it even more unlikely. Your only addressing part of the threat. Maybe it is most likely, nationstates usually have these types of systems unless they wind up in the hands of separatists. Youre not talking about that kind of threat happening to these commercial airliners. Youre talking more about the lowerlevel threats. Host who gets the contracts . What Companies Work in the space . Guest it is almost entirely the traditional defense contractors. As the department of homeland theyity moved ahead, solicited five bids. They took it down to two. There were others involved. One of the companies that bid and made it further along was United Airlines teaming with a more traditional defense company. Its not like they were all defense contractors. The vast majority were. Yes. They do want to expand their business in this area. There was a gold after 9 11 where people thought Homeland Security was going to have an enormous budget. It has got to be a pretty big budget. It it never quite materialized. Host carl is calling from colorado. You say complex safety issues. The European Airlines used to prevent people from tampering with their airliners. If a good offense is the best solution all the way around. I wasnt aware of what you were talking about. Airlines have said we think the best way to deal with this is to go out in the field. We need to keep them of the hands of people who can use them against us. Destiny is coming from texas. I think that is true. I can gradually the decision on sending these aircraft. We should attack the perpetrators were shooting down airplanes and being a threat. Own the attack people. Ishink prioritizing defense very important. Hink the perpetrators interested with the pilot knew he was targeted. I understand that he wasnt aware, or was he . Dont think we know that for sure yet. It might be something that they would know. Unless we are talking about an israeli airliner. We dont have a good strong sense about what happened in this incident entirely. Most lanes are not equipped with that candidate action system. They mightve been able to visually spot that there was a missile fired from the ground. They might have seen it coming. They would not have received a warning by any kind of mechanism on board. Most planes are not equipped with that kind of Missile Warning system. Are there any pushes to adopt a commercial Missile Defense system that would prevent against the type of attack that brought down the malaysian airliner . That is what senator kirk was talking about. He chaff would help it would be more of a buying time. The problem becomes what do you do after. Stages ofthe early starting to talk about this. We are a week after this attack. Typically, you dont get the best ideas at the moment of the crisis. There might be some technologies out that we have not heard about so much. There might be ideas that we have not heard about much. Obscure kind of threat we can face. The best idea would be to not fly over a war or one that might want to shoot us down. Think that is the more obscure of the kinds of threats we are talking about. Thereht not know how much is to deal with it. Host we will hear now from charles on the independent line. Caller i was wondering about of a missiled attack happening here in the United States versus going overseas. Ob the likelihood of flying over the United States and there being a missile attack . It would seem to me less likely than there be an attack on u. S. Soil. Over whatre control happens with our airliners. Less control overseas. That doesnt mean that it is not theoretically a possibility. It means that somebody would have to figure out how to get this kind of technology into the United States. Neither of those things are particularly easy. They will need to learn how to get in the proximity. Some kindhave to have of training. Aboutis some concern passport holders becoming trained fighters in syria. That is not outside the realm of possibility. The could smuggle technology and or steal it and be good enough to use it. They would deal with a lot of problems. Likely that this would happen in the United States. It is unlikely that it would happen to a u. S. Flight overseas. Liz is in florida on the republican line. I flew a lot of admirals and foreign dignitaries. We did not have any kind of defense system. What does air force one . Have some sort of inboard radar they can tell you are alerted and about to get hit , they would not let us carry guns. What does the president do. They are not all military. Guest air force one has a laser jamming system. There were some details that leaked out back in 2006. They had this kind of laser system. Said arprised what she significant on the next washington journal toby harnden and martin europe, ukraine, and the middle east. And what is expected from the new va. Thewhat remains on legislative agenda for congress at germans the august recess. Your phone calls, they spoke comments, and tweets. Washington journal live at 7 a. M. Eastern on cspan. Next is a Senate Hearing on protecting passengers on cruise ships. That the irsaring targeted conservative groups apply for taxexempt status. And the 9 11 commission discusses their new reports on national threats. On the communicators monday night, two members of Congress Talk about their technology legislations. We crafted an amendment that says under 702 of the act, you can collect data. We know from the snowden disclosure it is a lot of data. It also includes the information of americans even though that cant be the purpose of the collection of the data. What the amendment simply said is if you want to search that database for americans, you should get a warrant. Not that you cant get information. Get a warrant. The basic premise of the dot com act is to make sure when the nation oversight over the domain system, we know what were getting ourselves into. Representatives monday night at 8 p. M. Eastern on the communicators on cspan 2. Ship passengers testified before a Senate Committee on safety and security in the cruising industry. This is an hour and 25 minutes. For those who came here for a different purpose, i want to apologize. Billss a chance to get out of the committee, which is a triumph. We had to take it manage to get five bang out to get five out. Im going to make my opening statement. Can i be recorded in favor of the sides . The would like to begin same way i did before. Once in a while, things can go terribly wrong. Instances like these are unfortunately a part of the cruise experience and very honored to welcome four witnesses who will help us understand the consequences of these actions. We have not had direct testimony of those affected by those who represent those who were affected by it. That is what the hearing was before. The fact that some senators have left, dont let that bother you. Markups are unusual. That is why they had to come. They had to do something else. You are the point of all of this. I want that to be clear. My guestso welcome who will help us understand the consequences of these incidences. I recognize this is not an easy subject to talk about. It is painful. Pain,r you reflect that the committee understand it and welcomes it to read joined you in the difficulty of coming up here and testifying before a Senate Committee. I am happyindustry to say is not happy i am holding this hearing. They are very unhappy. Those companies do not like it when congress and the media talk about the risks of taking these vacations. Thathave repeatedly said troops are safe. But the facts tell a different story. Averagesnt mean, the person will have a good experience. By dont judge a steel plant 500 workers not being hurt. By but by 30 workers being badly hurt. We have had several hearings expert rt were we continue to see the same issues. They have lots of lobbyists. They are going to win this one. Carnivals president told this committee that the number one priority is the safety and security of our guests. He explained how the lines have every incentive to make sure their customers have a good experience. It is little comfort to the many people who is vacations whose whotions have failed to they had a chance to see with the problems were. In spite of the evidence that the industry continues to deny it has a problem. It has circled the wagons and fought font all all efforts to reform. People have to talk about the risks, too. It is not fair. They often refer to new york kinds ofhey have all problems, but they do not advertise them. When you are any cruise ship, there isruise ship, not a hospital. On ane in a in island island all by your self. It is different than being in a community. Ther witching witnessing coast i introduced something called the cruise protection act of 2013. In this bill, i propose making it easier for consumers to report crimes. Make plates about problems on cruise ships. Everything is about making it easier. If you make it hard, a lot of people will wont to do it. An environment like a cruise ship trip, you have to be able to be able to report. And do it easily. I have also proposed simplifying ticket contracts and publishing more information on cruise ships. You know what im talking about when i talk about the ticket problem. You have to peel layers of paper or way. You are just sending a ticket. It is underneath that it says you give up your liabilities. That is not nice. It is a terrible thing to do. These are not crazy ideas. They are common sense protections that consumers have it they travel in airplanes or by rail. The industry opposes the bill. Even he simplest provisions like for posing reporting crimes against minors. What the problem might be, what the advantages might be. They are making an informed decision. When the industry opposes basic disclosure about its conduct, it suggests it has something to hide. The witnesses are going to help it is important to have this information. Passengers who are victims of crimes do not have immediate access to Law Enforcement. Sure, they are out at sea. They dont have access to Law Enforcement. That is pretty basic to read if they suffer a Health Emergency on a cruise, they could be hundreds of miles away from a health is a woody that operates at u. S. Standards or even below your standards. Below u. S. A standards. Something called a hospital. Despite the industrys talk about taking responsibility, they sometimes treat customers with callousness and disregard. My words are hard because i am a re. Four witnesses are appearing today. Asre are many more people you know who could have shared their experiences. And have with my staff. Ken carver. Jamie barnett. Countless others who have fought to protect others from needless tragedy. I would like to thank everybody who has been willing to step forward and tell us their stories despite the painful and tragic circumstances. Not just that they happen, but having to recall them verbally and publicly. Having accurate statistics about crime and other statistics is important to read important. It is even more important to understand the cost that this industry is not knology during the hearing along with other hearings and inquiries i have made into the cruise industries. They are about one thing called accountability. Being honest with people. I know the Cruise Companies inc. I am singling them out, as they say, for special scrutiny. I have never hesitated to ask for buddies tough questions when i think their Business Practices are hurting consumers. I have never hesitated to Ask Companies tough questions when i think their Business Practices are hurting consumers. This process is called oversight. It is one of the most important jobs that congressional committees have. When it comes to the cruise industry, we have been doing our job. We have held hearings, talk to many different people with experiences in this industry. It has led us to the conclusion that we have to act. We need legislation to protect consumers. For anyone in this committee who has not gotten the message, i urge you to listen closely to date as these witnesses share their experiences. I think everybody i tha nk everybody. I encourage you to listen closely to the testimony today. Orsk you to consider whether whether there are steps you can take to protect your passengers. The industry is booming. People love to travel and go on those ships. My own son has done that. I dont begrudge people that. They have a right to do that. They have responsibility, since jurisdiction, our to do it safely and properly for everyone to read i believe there are steps they can take. I will continue pushing to make those things happen. I call upon the distinguished senator from mississippi. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You have made a number of important and valid points. I would do think the witnesses for being here. As you said, it may be difficult for them to share their experiences. Do so is important may and i appreciate their courage in coming forward and sharing information we need. The chair has billed the hearing as a forum to discuss his bill, the cruise ship passenger protection act. We need to protect passengers from crime. We need to ensure access to medical care. Important and worthy issues. Would beay i think it best if we consider this legislation as a standalone bill and not in connection with the coast guard authorization act. I dont know what the chairs approach will be but i dont think the reauthorization act is the appropriate vehicle for cruise passenger protection. Judgment come a we ought to consider legislation separately from the coast guard authorization act. Congress deserves the to see how we can and the public deserves a discussion to making cruising safer for americans and foreign tourist while visiting u. S. Ports. There are many areas in which the industry is receiving criticism including the effectiveness of crime prevention. Their response to crime. Sexual assault the report of incidents and tax concerns. I hope standards like those that could have been treat in thise are a priority discussion. There are cruise ships with maximum capacities larger than many small towns and cities. Some cruise ships have more than 6000 passengers. Some 2000 staff along with them. Required two medical professionals. Imagine a small town of that size, for example in rural mississippi. My native home. Here are 5700 People Living beautiful what if we only had two medical professionals . 29my native city, we have professionals. Force. Ers of the police as well as 24hour physician care. Me great pause to containingise ship 8000 souls would have only two medical professionals aboard. We need transparency. We need to promote selfcorrecting behavior. Hear thehe right to stories of the victims. We do not need to paint the entire industry with a broad brush because of a few bad actors. We should look for ways to partner with the industry to make passenger cruises a safe environment for our american passengers into her wrists and tourists. I encourage the cruise line industry to work with congress to find a Market Driven solution. Thank you mr. Chairman. I look forward to getting to the testimony of our witnesses. Thank you, senator wicker. We come from states with lots of rope places. Rural places. My hometown is about 270 people. So you are urban compared to us. [laughter] let me go right to the witnesses. Had a badan experience on a Royal Caribbean cruises in 2006. In International Cruise Victims Association board member. I will introduce each of the four. He is a lawyer who represented a 15yearold minor who was raped on a cruise ship. He was also on the same he is also on the same board. In chairman of the National Center for victims of crime. Im grateful he is here. Aanda, whose mother suffered 2013 andmergency in likely passed away from a lack of adequate medical care. Im glad you are here. And kim, a passenger on the carnival ship that caught fire and was stranded for four days. Those are easy things for me to say, but they are hard to have gone through. Lets get at it. I will call on lori. Thank you so much for being here. Hello. Like to think the chairman in the committee for convening this hearing and inviting me to washington. It is an honor and a privilege to be here. I am a crewefeller, ship rate rip them rape victim. I havent experienced to tell you about. A cruise line employee raped me during a cruise to mexico. He was working as a Security Guard. He asked me my name and kevin member cabinet number. He forced his way in. I resisted. He strangled me and brutally raped me. I did not know what to do. I did not know who to turn to. There were no police. Ands hesitant to call report the crime because he wore a security badge. Three days earlier, i was looking forward to this cruise. The glossy brochures advertised adventure. An experience to remember. I was celebrating my birthday and 30 years of friendship with my best friend michelle. I was so excited. In the evening, i would find myself in the middle of a nightmare. Michelle called the personal desk the desk to report the crime. They came to the cabin. They said on the bedwetting liberal kurd on the bed where the rape occured. They insisted i prepare a written statement and sign it. They left without taking me to the infirmary or securing the cabin. A security cap and Security Officer took us to the infirmary. They asked us to go collect the evidence. We try to preserve hair and other items, not knowing what we were supposed to be doing. We returned to the infirmary with men surrounding us. It was painful and humiliating. The ships dr. Performed the rape kit and examined my neck, but failed to administer and try antiretroviral medication. I was traumatized to be back at the scene of the crime. I could not take my eyes off the mattress where the crime occurred. Mattress seemed naked and dirty to me. It looked like i felt. Think about what had happened to me. I did not know what would happen next. I just want to close my eyes and go home. I was given three options. To get off the ship in mexico and reported to local authorities. Ship andn the cruise reported to the fbi when recently returned when we returned. Or fly back to l. A. I opted to fly back to l. A. Once in the lake, i was questioned extensively by the fbi. They photographed the bruising. A few days later, they boarded the ship when it returns to port. Together with the cruise lines defense attorney. The crewmember denied going into my cabin. The fbi said it was a he said come a she said case he said, she said case. The department of justice declined to prosecute. With aise ship set sail rapist on board. Changedd the crewmember his story. It was only then that they can find can find confi ned him to his cabin and then move them home. I hired a maritime lawyer in miami. Even though i live in sacramento, the cruise left from l. A. To findit says you need an attorney in miami. That manyy found things that surprised and angered me. The Security Guard was a janitor who they called a cleaning specialist. Who was paid 550 a month. In theassigned to act Security Department because of a limited number of guards. He had no training or experience as a Security Guard. Caribbeansian records found in an holy history royalncludes caribbeans records found in employee that had lied and sexually harassed two girls six weeks earlier. Witnesses observed him drinking beers given to him by bartenders. Royal caribbean, pursuant to court orders, saying the cruise line has studied the problem of Sexual Harassment the outside experts retained by the cruise line retained Sexual Misconduct occurred frequently. The Security Guard told me, this never happens. But the cruise line ignored what their experts told them. By telling you probably telling the public crimes are rare. Joined the International Cruise victims and i am now a member of the board. I have testified in past in with the house of representatives. Today i am joined by the board and friends. Cruise consumers have virtually no rights or protections. I know this firsthand. I know exactly how it feels to have no rights and to be victimized by the cruise line a second time. After their employee assaulted me. Certainly our congress can require such a powerful industry to timely and accurately report crimes against cruise ship guests. Provide a clear and accurate statement of our rights without an comfortable legal mumbojumbo. Hire competent medical providers. Provide protection under a Consumer Agency which will help us in our time of need. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ms. Fishman. Dishman. You did that well. I know it was hard. We will have questions. First, we want to hear from phil. Is a lawyericated representing a 15yearold miner who was raped. Raped. R who was toi am a lawyer in miami, or florida. For more than 40 years my practice has focused on representing crime victims at sea and online and. And on land. And i appreciate the invitation. Read from you my written testimony, which states the case facts about the incident the chairman referred to in more detail than i will mention now. I welcome any questions the senators may ask. The cruise passenger protection act should be passed. It is far short of the needed solutions but it is a next step on the path to greater passenger safety to read if you think young women are safe on cruise ships, and again. Think again. Autistic teenage client was not supervised like she was on land because her family thought she was safe. They were vigilant in managing all her activities scrupulously. Supervised, she was in teen activities. On the last night of the cruise, the teen activities ended early. No one told her parents. She was globally led away by gullibly led away by a sexual here she was brutally raped and attacked by a juvenile and an adult male. The secured this occurred wasr the cruise safety act signed into law. Her stateroom was lie sold and cleaned before Law Enforcement cleaned for Law Enforcement could get access. Security said, there was a mistake. We locked it at the housekeepers overwrote the lockout. Cloevidence on the bed thes and other evidence was lost. Fortunately, our state legislatures had the wisdom to extend jurisdictions to crimes when the ships leave and return from florida ports. There were sheriffs deputies standing on the pier when he who tookturn to port custody of the offenders. There withthey were punished under state law. But had it occurred anywhere else, they likely would have gone on apprehended. Ded. Napprehen what is worse about what happened is the cruise lines not only suppressed the faxccts, they fostered a diss information this information di sinformation campaign saying you are safer on c. In some ways, this is true. You will not get hit by a car. By an armed be shot robber because there are no vehicles or guns on the ship. But sexual crimes like the one that my innocent teenage client was a victim of are far too common. The risks of them are high. There are thousands of people on board and no police to deter crime or stop a crime before it harms somebody. Ship Security Officers are trained to detect shipowners, not passengers. That is not what they do. That is exactly what they do. The answer based on my lifetime of experience in this work is independent sea marshals should be placed on cruise ships. A trivial cost in view of the large number of people who are assembled on these Floating City vacations. If we cant get that today, we can start now with d. O. T. Empowerment to make the risks known. Risks hasisclosure of been required by government for decades. It is part of the fundamental fairness which is a fit part of the fabric of the american society. Full disclosures of risks is a first step toward improving safety. Very few travelers understand the legal relationship which exists in the cruise contract. As they crossed the gangway, they surrender all legal rights to protect their legal welfare except that the ticket allows. This is not informed consent. It does not explain how the legal relationship is different at sea from what we know to be on land. It is not semantics when we refer to the ships captain is the master. The master is just that. The passengers have virtually no individual rights. The Cruise Industry Association bill of rights is illusory, empty, and meaningless. A close reading of the tickets reveal a flight mean a frightening list of disclosures. They say the ticket cruise line has no legal liability import for any excursion which they arrange, sell to the passengers, share fees with the but theyators, disclaim any responsibility. They say the same thing about the Physician Services they sell medicalordered board clinics. If there are is medical negligence, they have no legal responsibility. International maritime treaties which limit passenger rights and passenger remedies when something goes wrong on board. Neither the cruise ticket nor the cruise line adequately inform the passengers of the nature or extent of what they have given up by crossing that gangway. The bill should be passed so the outgoing buyer beware business relationship is replaced with truth in advertising, full disclosure, and informed consent. The hallmarks of American Life required by government for business and industry. Until Congress Gives passengers more protections, american nationals on cruise ships are just on their own. I invite you to read my brief written statement which provides more details so i take no more time than necessary now. Thisunteer to assist in process in the future. Thank you sir very much. Amanda butler. Your mother suffered a medical emergency. In 2013 on a carnival cruise. Probably passed away from the a lack of adequate medical care. Senator rockefeller and members of the committee, i create the earth i appreciate the opportunity to tell my mothers story and offer recommendations from our perspective in an effort to ensure no other family will go through what we experienced. My mother experienced a Catastrophic Health event on a family cruise. She subsequently passed away on may 4 to read the fourth. Passed away on may 4. See had a generous heart. She was a faithful and devoted wife and mother who was there for her children. More than 800 people came to her visitation. We had just returned from a shore excursion and passed through security. We were planning events for the evening when she collapsed. She had no pulse. She was not breathing. To security ran personnel. All they did was see off the entrance and exit so nobody could see there was a problem. They did not step forward to help my mother. Nobody indicated they were calling for help. To tryown the corridors to find a dish you later the efibulator ordi somebody who could explain we have a nickel emergency. A nurse arrived after what we minutes. Was 810 she had a radio but no equipment when she arrived to ricci when she arrived. She did not initiate cpr. My mother was taken to a medical enoughy that was close that we could have carried her, had we been told uribe had to unlock the doors, turn on the computers had be been told. They had to unlock the doors and turn on the computers. Her posted return. But the duration of time she went without oxygen was 32 minutes. Once resuscitated, we were instructed to leave the step ship. My father went to his room and they sent personnel to my room together the longings to gather the longings. Belongings. After we got off the water taxi, we had to wait on an ambulance to get her. One carnival Employee Company gus. Accompanied us. Processed as tourists, including my comatose mother. Employee gave my father the telephone number of for Port Authority the Port Authority and left us alone to figure out how to transfer my mother back to the u. S. The current contract states they are not responsible or liable for anything the welfare or its passengers. The Company Makes no assurances that he physician will be available on a cruise. It states that medical care may not be available at all or will be delayed. Thatontract states carnival is not responsible for the actions of physicians and nurses, who considers independent contractors. As it turned out, my mothers react event event was the type that, had she received cpr in a timely manner, she would have been here today. She died needlessly because humane emergency protocol was not follow or enforced. The contract was too small to read. The general public does not understand all u. S. Rights are surrendered upon entering the puzzle vessel. Had we known, our family would have never know boarded. We offer the following recommendations to improve health care. We know some of the items are included in the cruise vessel security act of 2010. Also thaten informed the medical requirements have been very narrowly interpreted. Our recommendation would be to thefy the 2010 act to add following requirements. Machines,es aed different relators de fibulators, should be placed throughout the ship. Cpr training and requirements allld be required of personnel. The personnel should be trained on how to respond to emergency situations including summoning medical assistance. The english language should be a requirement for personnel on these vessels that have u. S. Port of calls. At minimum, a all personnel should be able to understand keywords such as emergency. Help. Doctors. Hour health care is necessary, given that the ships carry several thousand people per cruise. Be onips physician must president or on call for immediate response. Doctors must have u. S. Medical board credentials and emergency medicine or family medicine. And at least served a practicum. Carnival has ignored virtually all of the standards that they their to to implement ships as a member of cleo. That must change for the safety and welfare of future passengers. My father and i greatly appreciate the opportunity to tell my mothers story. And their recommendations for the committee. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ms. Butler. Just for the benefit of the members of the committee, what she has been talking about in part is i would have to lose 60 years off my present life length and have a strip of strong glasses and probably a triple glass strong glasses and probably a magnifying glass to read what youre talking about. I gave it to bill nelson. Too. Getting older, you give up your you give up your rights. You give up your liability. You have no idea because you cannot read this thing. I am breaking protocol here and i apologize. You give things up, you dont know what. You cant possibly read this. You are kind of in a hurry. Is the whole point. In this is the whole trip. So to
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