Transcripts For CSPAN Books 20240703

Up next p of the series with the librarian of congress and an author and historian. Brinkley good evening, and welcome to live at the library, and a preview of the new library of congress cspan series, books that shaped america. My name is peter, and i am with cspans book tv. About 150 years ago, when i was young, my parents were a little worried that my brother and i about what my brother and i were reading about. They consulted marian, the principal at our grade school, glenwood elementary, in fort wayne indiana, and she had two pieces of advice for us. Let them read anything they want. The back of a cereal box. The words on a television commercial. Go to the library regularly and check out books. The second piece of advice was for bedtime. Let them stay up a halfhour later as long as that halfhour was devoted to reading. Well, for some reason, that advice stuck. From reading cereal boxes the book tv to interview authors, and our new series, books that shaped america. We will begin the series september 18, at 9 00 p. M. , live on cspan, and kick off with thomas payne, who wrote down the frustrations that early americans were feeling. From there, we go to lewis and clark, who explored and catalogued to the unknown, Zora Neale Hurston, who helped to define the harlem renaissance, and vocalized the fears that many were feeling during that time. And to Milton Friedman, who defined the Economic System that drives us. These are just some of the authors and books that we will be exploring in our 10 week series. Books are meant to engage, enlighten, enrage, and energizes. That is what we are hoping to do with the series. The 10 books that we have chosen for this series represent different euros, top eras, topics and viewpoints. They are derived from a large list of 100 books created by the library of congress. If you like the list chosen, thank the library of congress for their 100 books that shaped america. If you dont like our editorial choices, blame cspan and share your own list with us. There are couple ways of doing that. The website for doing that is at cspan. Org books that changed america, and you can also see a complete review of the entire series there. If you are here in the audience, and you hear some books that you agree with or dont agree with, go downstairs. We have a video kiosk set up where you can record your own thoughts about books that shaped america. I mentioned three of my literary heroes. My parents, and my estimable professor. And principal. And now i get to introduce tomorrow. Well talk about books that shaped america, and perhaps share some of their own choices as well. One of my favorite moments at the National Book festival every year is when i get to sit down with the library of congress herself to talk books. Librarian of congress herself to talk books. We just start riffing about current and favorite books, and the consternation of many to the consternation of many, we forget what time it is and we always go over our allotted time. Carla hayden is only the 14th librarian of congress and our 247 year history. The first and only woman. She has been in that position since 2016. Her mother, colleen, is a big cspan watcher, and she is watching tonight, she is a big reader, and she will be watching tonight, so play nice. Joining the doctor is the president ial biographer douglas brinkley. You might be familiar with his president ial biographies, books on hurricane katrina, the space race, and many other topics. But i want to mention his 1993 magic bus book. That book led directly to cspan bus, which, for 25 years and more, traveled the country educating students and schools on civic education. One more reminder this evening, as with many cspan programs, this will be interactive. You will have the chance to question dr. Hayden and brinkley by the notecards that will be passed out, and you can submit those if you have questions for them this evening. Here is the librarian of congress, carla hayden, and president ial biographer doug brinkley, talking about books that shaped america. [applause] hayden thank you peter, and it is a joy to spend time just talking about books. They do have to give us the hook. I was so glad that you also mentioned that cspan selected the 10 books. Brinkley not the library of congress. The idea that cspan come up working with the library of congress, has to talk about books that matter, and these are 10 to get us going. Everybody has one that they wish to be on the list, mine would have been Henry David Thoreaus walden, because of the environmental part of that book. But i think we have a good list and really interesting variety that covers the span of American History. Hayden with this partnership, as teacher peter mentioned that, i have to ask you, what books shaped you as a historian . Brinkley one that really moved me was John Steinbecks the grapes of wrath, where he called 66 the road of flight. I remember reading that book when i was young, his description of oklahomans migrated to california after the dustbowl ravaged the great plains, and the idea that automobile workers, some enjoy going down route 66, some people were packed in the vehicle, and they described the migrant camps. After i read the grapes of wrath, it stays with me. Ive reread it, and i tended to like novels more than history books, but usually u. S. Writers, i went through a steinbeck phase, where i read all of his. And also langston hughes, i love so much. I wonder as i wander and some of his autobiographical books i got , i had the collected langston hughes, i had done volumes on his papers. Those are interesting. Those are two obvious ones that stick out. I used to go through phases where i would read all of one author, i read one book and i liked it, and i would go, but David Mccullough and i talked about novels as a way of thinking of American History. I grew up in ohio, if i want to think about what book about ohio do i like, it tends to be winesburg, ohio, bike share with anderson, not necessarily a biography. Oftentimes, novelists can get into the tone and tenor of your time, and bring you into feel what it was like and some of the folks on our list, particularly Zora Neale Hurston, is one that does that, it brings you there. Cracks you have written recently about you have recently written about the space race. What is your process when you select topics like that . Brinkley when i was young, i got to know the famous kennedy biographer of those days, who got me involved in new york. He once told me that i was worried about 70 different topics, but also music and pop culture, he said just be a 20th century historian. Or a nineteenths there are 19th century british historians, 18thcentury italian historians. You could look at the entire 20th century. And thomas wolfe said that there are a billion forms of america, where there are all these subcultures going around. I wanted to learn about those. But also you want to do a book that someone else has not done and when i did rosa parks there was not a mature biography written on her. I approached mrs. Parks about it and with her assistant, they were hoping that it would be an africanamerican woman that would read the book. They told me that. Rights of the book. They tell me that. They call they later called me and then said, and write about. The book. And writing about fdr and rachel carson, and i loved when i was young, my parents were teachers and we had a trailer and station wagon, we went all over the United States and visited history sites and parks. It still stays with me. If i had to have a perfect job, it would be running something that takes care of of historical sites. Im in American History preservationist at heart, and our symbiotic friendship. Hayden i could see you as a park ranger. I could see. Brinkley i want to be somewhere isolated, like the archers in utah, just watching the seasons for a while. I keep my eye on the public lands. Hayden lets look at the list. This is cspans list. Im just emphasizing that. Dont forget the video booth this year, at the library of congress through november 20, you can give your suggestions. If you have to pick 10, to start, the start of the conversation, you mention something when we were just coming on, you said, you know, number one, common sense by thomas payne is still the bestselling book by an american author. Brinkley it was published in january 1770 six, and had the advantage of being around the longest. But it was talk forever. Its a foundational document. Its like the declaration of independence, the bill of rights, the constitution, and in many ways common sense, you cant think about america without reading it because it was a 47 page pamphlet released right at the beginning of the american revolution, and it is electrifying to read now because he writes with such grace and he is a provocatuer, and he has the ability to get your emotions to rise. What he was promoting was breaking away from Great Britain to create the United States, and that monarchy is work thing of the past, and the United States was the place that had the creation of the u. S. Was possible, and we would become a citadel of democracy. That is one book that if youre going to pick one of the two of that. , thomas payne had come over to america from england where he was from right before the battles of lexington and concord, but ben franklin had recruited him as in many ways, he was a bomb throwing pamphleteer, and common sense was in all the newspapers. You could not go into a tavern or Business Establishment in 1776 without thomas payne coming to peoples lips at least once it was identified that he was the writer. Hayden he went viral. Brinkley he went viral, and hes been viral ever since. And the great historian eric phone or talked about wrote a book called thomas payne the history of america, and i loved it, hes an enduring figure if you care about freedom and justice and democratic equality, and why our system of government should be the envy of the world. Hayden and then you get to the federalist papers by alexander hamilton, James Madison, and john jay. Talk about a group. Brinkley their justification, they were rectifiers, they wanted to ratify the constitution after it was drafted, and you had to sell it to the american people. These three authors, the lead one was alexander hamilton. If you go through the federalist papers, when it came out, it became known as the federalist. It becomes, in the 20th century, the federalist papers. But the point that they are tried to make clear, hamiltons federalist paper number 78, was about the Judicial Department. If you read it today, its in all of the arguments that we are dealing with on Court Television and all of the thinking about what would a department of justice be like, it Judicial Department the like, how can you do or create such an entity, and lawyers quote it all the time. You have people he was the main writer. Alexander hamilton wrote the most, followed by James Madison and john j did five of them. You have people quoting from the federalist papers trying to say heres is what the founders thought. It can be misused. They were trying to ratify the constitution but people say that these are the original intents of the founders. It depends on how you read the federalist papers in todays 21stcentury legal climate, how you interpret each one differently than the other. Hayden would it be helpful for people to get into it now . Brinkley i years that word foundational document, and there is no way you can understand the United States without the federalist papers. Thomas payne, you might have done so they like the august autobiography autobiography of benjamin franklin, but the federalist papers is a founding document. Its fundamental to read those and understand that. Unfortunately, we have downgraded teaching civics in high school, teaching government. For any teacher to try to get students to way into the federalist papers and division of hamilton, madison, and whatever else our country can be, its a gold standard. And the library of congress has Thomas Jeffersons copy. Its so cool. With the annotations, i mean. Brinkley the annotated copy. Hayden he puts buddy things about the whole thing about who did number two, number 70 and all of that. Brinkley it became a bit like, he just died this year, robbie roberts, people used to say who sandwich vocal in the band, it was that way with the federalist papers, who wrote that. They were not tried to post authorship, they were trying to put together a collection of essays. They were united in purpose. Hayden did that ever gets all . Get solved . Brinkley there are some people who debate that debate, where you write one chunk of one, but we premuch no. Pretty much no. Hayden we will look at it. The next book, the history of the extradition expedition under captains lewis and clark, the president commissions this expedition. Brinkley and the book that you dont want, jefferson wrote a terrible book called notes of virginia, a racist, bigoted tract. So you have to deal with jefferson in that aspect, but lewis and clark shows the side of him that is brighter, his thought of western expansion. And while other politicians of the era saw the Mississippi River as the end of the United States, we go from atlanta to mississippi, jefferson was unique in thinking that you could go all the weight to the pacific. Decommissioned Meriwether Lewis and William Clark he commissioned Meriwether Lewis and William Clark, some people think that they were commissioned in pittsburgh, they went across the Missouri River to the continental divide, and they kept these minute, detailed, brilliant journals, because lewis was a naturalist par excellence, documenting and interacting with Indigenous People, that nobody knew had lived there, sacagawea becomes a big part of that corps of discovery. But the journals are gold for their detailed scientific observation of the tragedy, and the science that became their that they might have been able to trade for china. Theres no way were going to be able to quickly use the pacific as a gateway to china, and Meriwether Lewis about the best parts. People defend clarks writing, but lewis was depressed after it. It was a huge success, people didnt die, for a military exploration, highly successful. But he committed suicide, he was depressed after, and felt that it had been a failure because there was no shortcut to china. There was no big economic, you know, it was a wilderness out there. And depression, he started doing opium and drinking, and took his own life. William clark goes on and lives a robust life out of st. Louis but gets more involved in what they used to call indian affairs, and history, when you get into post lewis and clark expedition, it gets thorny on a lot of historical issues. Hayden i wondered about the Indigenous People that they encounter. Brinkley they convinced a leader to come all the way to washington to be here. Jefferson, he gets forgotten, this is a book that could be brought in, the pike journals. Jefferson said what do we have out there, and the key is, he bought the louisiana territory. Jefferson had sent out james monroe, and robert livingston, the great new york City Real Estate entrepreneur to buy just new orleans from napoleon bonaparte. Napoleon had had setbacks in haiti, they were concerned about growth of british power, and to the surprise of his diplomats, monro and livingston, he offered them all of louisiana to the partly because jefferson was a franco file, everything about the french, he loved it. And jefferson said he would rather have that entire louisiana territory be in american hands then british or spanish, and overnight, jefferson doubles the size of our country. And its lewis and clark, knowing up to see what is going on, but also you have zebulon pike, going all the way up the mississippi to look for the headwaters. He misdiagnosed it, he chose the wrong link in minnesota. But he was claiming modernday iowa, and illinois for the United States because britain was in canada and a second war with britain was looming, which exploded in 1812. At pipe found the headwaters of the arkansas and red river, and went to santa fe and spanish authorities confiscated his diaries and journals and put him in jail. Jefferson was threatening war if he did not release the they did not release the journals, they get published decade for lewis and clark. He misdiagnosed something besides the headwaters of the mississippi, saying that modernday nebraska was essentially a great desert where nothing will ever grow. And its the breadbasket of america. Hayden i think well get some comments about that. Brinkley and i speak is named after him, from the journal seeing that matt mountain, and he went on to serve as a Brigadier General in the war of 1812 and was killed at the battle of york. Munter modernday toronto. There is a movement to bring his body to colorado to be on top of pikes peak. After washington, more things were being made after zebulon pike than anything else. He was the first kind of new wave here after the American Hero after the american evolution, because of his exploits at expansion. Hayden where are the journals . Brinkley the library of congress. [laughter] hayden i really did not know that. [laughter] careful, my mom is watching. She knows. Brinkley they are worth looking at, the pike journals, they are published. Hayden one of the things that i talk about a lot is literacy, and the fourth book, the narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass, an american slave, by Frederick Douglass, is a night a 1945 memoir. I know that so well because of his chapter on learning to read. Brinkley its unbelievable how important the narrative of Frederick Douglass was. Everybody has to read that. That is quintessential reading. Born into slavery, Frederick Douglass, and he writes of the harm of enslavement, and the beatings that black americans took, and he was lucky he got to yorktown, baltimore, where he started to learn to read and write. He would later say that the white power structure, slaveowners, were trying to prevent slaves from learning how to read or write, because books became empowerment. Douglas became a brilliant intellectual, he was not only giving the best lectures of his era, with wellmeaning abolitionists like garrison and wendell phillips, they used to want to prop him up as an antislavery voice. Once that narrative came out, he was on his own. He was selling outhouses. When the book got published he went to ireland and england and became a global sensation. And Frederick Douglass has such a rich history in america. Im glad that our country is catching up to his legacy here in d. C. , you have his home run by the National Park service, a great place to see and to her. Scholarship of Frederick Douglass has kicked in, many people have written authoritatively about him recently. People find his relationship to lincoln interesting. That narrative reads so powerfully today that it gets you into the belly of the beast of slavery, where Harriet Beecher stowes Uncle Toms Cabin could be one of the important books, certainly was at the time, but it does not read the same way that Frederick Douglass is narrative does, and that really descriptions of what it was like from being enslaved and getting to be free and be emancipated. Its a remarkable book. Hayden and his quote that i use quite often. He describes the fact that he knew that this reading and what is in these books has to be important because he was permitted to learn how to read and could be punished. He said what you learn to read, you will be forever free. Brinkley and how do you beat a line like that . Books are the windows to the world. And the library of congress, we are here at the center of it, and in the washington baltimore area, it really elevates franklin Frederick Douglass, the New York Historical society has a statue of him outfront. He is one of our sustainable heroes in american americas past. Hayden another book that has been published about him recently was picturing douglas, because he was the most photographed american ever. Brinkley it was so fascinating, not only was he photographed, he became a huge celebrity. Lincoln was excited to meet with Frederick Douglass and see him, and he would fill out lecture halls, people would be packed into encounter him. And there are some of the episodes leading into the civil war where douglas is center stage, but he met john brown out of kansas, most famously of harpers ferry, to try to seize a federal arsenal and handout guns. So that enslaved people could revolt. That was a bridge too far for Frederick Douglass. People that loved him where like emerson, thoreau, alcott, the intellectual proud proud of break greater boston. Hayden we are physically next door to the Supreme Court, right here. At the library of congress. And the next book is the common law by Oliver Wendell holmes junior. Holmes says that the life of the law has not been logic, it has been experience. Why is this on the list . Brinkley i was surprised that he was on the list, now that he is not a giant, but i have never read common law. It has become such a part of our culture, we are the most legalistic society in the world, and he has boiled down thoughts about our legal institutions, that book has distilled elections lectures and thinking down into a potent, longer form essay. You can read it pretty quickly. He was an extraordinary figure, and me, mainly, people dont maybe realize because Theodore Roosevelt put them on the Supreme Court, and he lived to be 93 years old, he was the oldest Supreme Court justice. When you hear members today, people stepping down at 80, he was 90 at the Supreme Court, and people were in all of him in the 20th century because he had been a soldier who served in the battlefield on the civil war for the union. He had been wounded many times, and he was at places like antietam, and the wilderness. At battle after battle. If you were there in 1910 to be able to talk to him about the civil war and service, he had a handlebar mustache, he was the ultimate boston brahman, always had an eye on Great Britain, he was a deep intellectual, but he comes to the conclusion that the constitution is a living document, and that is why the common law matters, it has to be changed to take the meanings of different generations. You cannot claim something about something from a different era and interpreted from the founders because the point of law is that human civilization gets better. You dont cling to something, its elastic. Every generation has to upgrade the constitution anybody who goes to law school will learn stories, but mainly he is a legal giant. I have to say, it sounds like this book we might need to revisit today. Brinkley i think it matters look, the joint of picking these books is knowing that i was going to be here, i read it, and i have been teaching history a long time, if i had gone to law school i would have been encountering it in a more direct and important way, but it really opened my mind because a lot of the things you hear pundits on tv saying like the first amendment, if you cant scream fire in a Movie Theater, one of those things about the first amendment, and the gun debate in the country today, how does that work from. From europe to cure, with automatic weapons being sold willynilly at flea markets. His thinking was that we need to constantly update our thinking to fit, because law is not punitive, laws move. At the point of our constitution, the genius of the experiment of the constitution is indeed in its ability to be meaningful to the generation that is alive at the time. Now we know why this book was selected. That answers that question. I also think that there was a movie or one of those classic movie things, the magnificent yankee . Brinkley i have not seen that. Hayden well, i have to tell you to watch that, its about Oliver Wendell holmes at the end of his life, in a chair like this, and there is a young law clerk saying sarah, and everything, so, he wanted to leave resources, like 200,000 to the u. S. Government. And hes like oh, well, dont do that. And he leans back very dramatically and says send our family books to the library of congress. Im like what . Because the library of congress has him his collection right down the hall, the Oliver Wendell holmes collection. Brinkley one of the great collections in u. S. History, holmes was a great correspondent , less so than writing books, but other justices will write books, William Douglas wrote a book every two years, but holmes was jude distilling a judicial philosophy that he has imparted on our country that is very much alive today. Hayden the next book, so many of us had to read it, the adventures of Huckleberry Finn by mark twain, and the controversy about it. Brinkley i think that book was born in controversy and will stay in controversy forever. It was born in controversy less about the racial dynamics, which i will mention in a moment, but that he had Huckleberry Huck and jim playing dirty pranks and being a moral immoral or teenagers getting into trouble. People who wanted more rectitude in the book were not finding it in the adventures of Huckleberry Finn. At the time, it also has a real connotation on race, and twains mindset of that era when he wrote it that it was showing huck and jim coming from different kinds of oppression, huck has a mean father, and jim going up in slate jims father going up enslaved. But they become a dynamic duo as they go down the mississippi. Wyatt is why it is controversial today is because the nword is using it quite bit, some people want it bad because of that, and they say that it cannot really be a classic because of that, and then twain was willing to do dialect. Any time a white author starts dealing in dialect in any culture it gets tricky and sensitive, particularly now. Ernest hemingway said all American Literature emanates from the adventures of Huckleberry Finn. It continues to live on and to be discussed and debated, and mark twain is one of our great writers because of his body of work, but this was the one that has the lasted the test of time and is still red and talked about. But less so now because of that. Hayden what is interesting, and im skipping over to number eight, their eyes were watching god, by Zora Neale Hurston, was also criticized for using dialect. And alice walker, the great water, basically resurrected hurt and her reputation and her and her reputation. Brinkley Zora Neale Hurston is a really interesting american figure. Born in the south, came north, educated in bernard and elsewhere, started doing ethnography, anthropological studies, and wrote very well and had a great listening ear. Before long, starting in the 1920s, she was in the south collecting folk tales and folk stories. These are irreplaceable if youre going to capture black culture in the south, because a lot of times, what was really going on in the black community she took on issues of racism in the south in her research and writings, but she did it all where it evolved from photo collections. Her first book was men and mules, nonfiction, a folk compendium. By the time she writes her novel, its a really important book because on dialect, guys, its tricky. Its not saving or helping her reputation after walker had wrote the color purple and had a good claim. People did not like the way you are capturing the way black people spoken it, but it is a feminist manifesto, if you read the book its about women and men in general and how black women have to develop a fierce independence. Independent spirit packet separate from men. In many ways, its fascinating as a cultural document, but also its about womens liberation in its own right. She died broke, had no money, in florida and nobody knew, she said i will die broke, yet her papers are now invaluable, and she has been embraced in florida for hearted cake four heartedly. People make the assumption that a black woman writing about africanamerican state of the south, but she was not a liberal , she was not an fdr person, she voted republican. And believed in a lot of selfreliance and a bit of a libertarian side going on with her as well. You dont want to put these people in boxes, there is a full of intellectual great merit. Hayden and there was distrust of fdr and truman. She was vocal about it. Brinkley very vocal, but she worked with the federal project writers project, but she did not find that to be a solution on dealing with Race Relations where the federal government would allocate money or do something, it seemed to her, in her book or her novel that was chosen, she does characters, fictional characters, one representing booker t. Washington up from slavery, some people called it accommodating on how to work with white america. And w. E. B. Dubois, who wrote the souls of black people, and booker t. Washington, up from slavery, any of those could have been picked as a top 10. But she does very cleverly in that the present both sides of the black community that she is writing about that they are arguing within black society about these issues, which is the answer to do you do a personal institute teske institute like, where black people and why people dont need to integrate, we have our own culture and morays and we develop that, or do you do it like the naacp. Of course, one in the big sense of that battle, but booker t. Washington is not to be underestimated. The importance when he was the leading stage of teske sage of tuskegee. I always think of you and baltimore. Hayden i know, because i lived there. But illinois, springfield. And champaign illinois. And farther south, places like do coin illinois. That hurt a little bit. Sparta. Brinkley people should visit the lincoln president ial library in springfield, lincolns tomb, but now you can do eight guided tour in springfield of the socalled racial unrest of 1908, where we have been talking about stuff recently, but there was a horrible racial incident in 1908 in springfield. I never associate you with ohio, and now i will. Hayden ive been involved for 30 years. So. [indiscernible] in the midwest, and 1918. Brinkley her family moved, and this was a smart choice because my antonia is not only just a brilliantly written book, its part of a prairie trilogy that began with all pioneers oh pioneers, and then the songs of the mark, and my antonia, its a trilogy. You could pick any one of the three, and you should pick the right one. She is writing about growing up on the great plains, and in a very brilliant way deals with rattlesnakes or planting crops, they deal with european immigration in the midwest, and what it was like for pioneer families out there. How they had to rely on each other, and also Love Interest stories with the guy that ends up leaving that she loved playing with when they were young, but later in life they reconnect. She is sort of an incredible figure writing about red cloud nebraska, and it brings, my antonia, some people argue that it is the best written novel in American History if youre looking at it from a peer literary stylistic dialogue pure literary stylistic dialogue what of you. Someone was writing from Greenwich Village at the time. Hayden and you lived there. The village has always been hot. Brinkley it has always been hot. And i love seeing the plaques of who lived where, and if you get a guide, they will show you where o. Henry lived, or bob dylan wrote, its fantastic there in Greenwich Village. Concord, massachusetts was probably the start of our American Literary life, including walden pond, and Greenwich Village is such a hub. At harlem, where Zora Neale Hurston was considered part of that. Those are two extraordinary literary milieux. Hayden talk about timely, free to choose by milton and rose friedman. Im so glad that roses in there too, because you hear about Milton Friedman. An economist associated with the chicago school, if you can let people what the school know what the school was saying . Brinkley ok, i am not surprised that Milton Friedman and his wife are part of this, but i never thought of it as a great book. Thinking longer about this, Milton Friedman has had a massive career that has mattered, if you want to understand the conservative movement of today, Milton Friedman and his wife, they were a team. They were remarkable in that regard, the chicago school, it did not believe in keynesian economics. It did not believe in gathering debt and spend money later. It did not believe a good currency to help the dollar prevail should be a lot of federal expenditure. It should be about Less Government is more government, to the point when freeman did their book, the friedman said their book, Ronald Reagan was getting elected, and Ronald Reagan worshiped them. He talked about abolishing the department of energy, and the food and drug administration, and sizing down government. He was very pure about that in that he was against the iraq war, with the government getting the business of that, they were laissezfaire capitalists, but brilliant economists. They did these books in look like a tv show, 10 readable chapters to the public. If you read it, it goes down in the easy. Our problem is that his economic books were complicated and went over my head. Hayden thats the chicago school. Brinkley and you would study them. This is just a distillation of that antiregulatory philosophy, which continues to be very pervasive in our society. And when i pull back and take a look at it, it makes sense that Oliver Wendell holmes junior was picked and Milton Friedman was not dealing with law, the other one did he did economics, they were interesting partners in the sense that they look at the role of the federal government in different ways. Hayden and then in terms of partners, the words of cesar chavez. Brinkley the main thing that you may not know about him is that he was born in arizona. Some people might have thought that he was monitoring labor, he was an american citizen and he was traumatized as a boy because his family, during the great depression, had the local bank sees their farm and their property. In a very unseemly and frankly racist takeover of their family land. It forced them to become itinerant laborers going all over california picking produce and living in squalor. Out of that experience, he kept self educating himself, reading, reading, reading. He ended up encountering saul lois cains writings, a big chicago thinker lewinskys writing, a big chicago thinker about how to create empowerment for those without wealth, and fred ross, the genius labor of debt labor organizer in california. He adopted the catholic church, the ceremony of the communion wafer, he would carry on protests like the crucifixion of christ, and bring in more mexicanamericans and filipinos working with certain progressive bishops to create the united farmworkers union, and i got to interview dolores worked on in the 90s huerta in the 90s. Her and cesar chavez his wife where the leadership on how horribly we treated humans as if they were just animals, no restrooms for pickers in the fields, beatings, Bobby Kennedy famously when he ran for president in 1968 came out to plano to california to break the fast that cesar chavez was doing, he was not eating to protest labor conditions. And the kennedys were there to give him a communion wafer. But cesar chavez, they have a day for him all over the southwest, i live in austin texas, and our main thoroughfare is named after cesar chavez. He has statues everywhere. Its important to see him and dolores as figures to explain the latino, and particularly the Mexican American story in our country. I can see why we needed to have if not for that book another one that addresses that. Hayden very timely. And i understand that we have some time for a few questions. And we have gathered them. Before we start, i wanted to ask about chavez, was he an oratory like martin with a k junior . Brinkley no, but dr. King sent him an important telegram saying that what they share, king was the great oratory, and chavez was not comfortable speaking. But he delivered speeches with a genuine authenticity and had an aura about him that was remarkable, charisma is the word that we can use for him, his followers continue to grow and grow and grow. What chavez sheriff was a fervent love and devotion to nonviolence as written about by mahatma gandhi. Both are nonviolent, gandhi and figures that have led the most successful protests of the 60s and 70s saying that violence is never the answer and we will never resort to violence no matter what. And you can study, when you study nonviolence movements in america, it emanates from the civil disobedience that arose like not paying taxes in the Mexican American war, civil disobedience out of dr. King, influencing chavez. Its part and parcel for the cause of social justice, but nonviolence in achieving it. Hayden and authenticity carries it through, especially in that age. Brinkley and he was smart and handsome and people just gravitated towards him. Once Time Magazine put chavez on the cover in the late 60s, he was able to convince people here in maryland virginia not to eat grapes and not to eat produce made by a grower that had horrific conditions and who would not pay Union Laborers a proper living wage or proper work conditions. Hayden from what i understand, globalism was part of it. You have a movement to keep things close in this country, but his philosophy was much more national. International. Brinkley and the mistake people make about cesar chavez is that he loved the United States very much. He observed in the had served in the navy, it was a Jim Crow Navy where he was a mexicanamerican, and he got into his first bit of Police Trouble when he came on leave from the navy and went to a Movie Theater and Mexican Americans had to sit in a certain section. He was on a date and sat in the regular players, and they took him to the police station. He had a fire in his belly about what is right and wrong, and a fierce extensive grip, anybody who can fast and not eat for days protesting like he did, and lead these marches to protest where his feet were blistered and bleeding, and he had to soak them, and barack obama, the grassroots organizing side of barack obama, he adopted the yes we can from cesar chavez. There is a direct link to obama hayden . Hayden well, we have questions. Before i have you talked about your book, especially about the new one about climate, climate. Brinkley my new book is called claimant silent spring revolution, the environment to movement of the 60s and 70s is dealt with. Joe carsons book silent spring came out in 1962, and that could have been on the top 10 list because rachel carson, looking at ddt and pesticides developed after one or two, during world war ii, they were applied by crop plants spraying all these chemicals, she was arguing that people were getting sick from it, that it created cancer and leukemia spikes, and she took conservation and environmentalism and married it with public health. In her book is the birth of the environment and justice issues, and by Mental Health issues, and i write in my book about Climate Change where from 1958 we were clear on co2 emissions, kennedy, there is a memo that i doubt he read that deals with that, Lyndon Johnson mentioned it, but the shocker was a former nixon advisor who was considered a nixon house intellectual, wrote a memo saying that i am talking to the weather people, the silent sites people. If this is accurate, we are in big trouble. He actually writes in the white house, goodbye miami and goodbye new york, what happens to seattle is unknown. And this is the nixon era, and we have had a lot of residents, and we have had al gore moments, but here we are talking to you when it has been the hottest summer on record in similar places in the world and all across the United States, and claimant issues are going to be living with us as front page, im afraid for the rest of our lives. Its a longterm problem. Hayden this relates, and several of the questions are pointing to something people want to hear you take. If you were to pick a book from the 21st century to be on the list, what would you pick, is there a book on in recent history within the last 10 years, what will be a classic, what writers within the last 30 years. Brinkley you know, im a little bit amazed that, guys, its impossible to pick, there are hundreds. Hopefully this panel leads to another tan and another 10. You need to have a grasp of Walt Whitmans book of poetry because his gift was free verse, saying using your own song, everybody here in the audience, you are your own poet, and you dont have to ride, rhyming is a disciplinary thing, you can just write what you feel. Wightman whitmans free verse poetry and the blues and jazz music that leads to rock n roll, the meeting of Duke Ellington and Charlie Parker and miles davis, and jazz and spontaneity and the discipline of being a great jazz player and how you can be a great individual in jazz but you are playing with the community of players. These are our great gifts. I would say the writer who matters the most in recent times in my mind, american writer, toni morrison. You cant now really be alive and not read tar baby or beloved and one of her novels. I happen to reread a book by David Foster Wallace called infinite jest. He committed suicide, but it is a powerful novel where he was looking at american Popular Culture and television and black humor, used to be called dark humor. A lot going on with David Foster Wallace. He comes to mind. The real masters in an American History way, as a professional historian, i would be citing so many historians, but i will say good whens goodwins team of rivals is one of the great books in history. If you know the library of america, they have beautiful books with a black cover dust jacket and is pantheon of Great American books. I can see no ordinary times about franklin and eleanor and her book on lincoln as being sustainable history narrative classics in the tradition of Barbara Tuchman and all of that. You are dealing with high praise when you are getting into Doris Kearns Goodwin and tuchman territory. Hayden you know as a president ial historian, there had to be a question. Mr. Brinkley the big book this year is the Martin Luther king biography, the ability to do king in a single volume was such a scholarly position where you can bring king up and at the same time turning him into a human, not a sanctified figure. Hard to be that book as biography. His one on muhammad ali was really strong. Hayden so what past u. S. President was the most voracious reader . That is what people really want to know. Mr. Brinkley the trick is you have to say jefferson, its the library of congress. He donated the Jefferson Library as the foundation. I went to jefferson high. Theodore roosevelt, constant reading. He would be up all night long. He would have insomnia and pore through books. T. R. Wrote like 35 books and 150,000 letters. He read. The book that i think influenced him a lot was Charles Darwins on the origins of species which came out in 1859, right when his father was creating the museum of natural history. We probably take for granted what a revolution darwins book was on evolution and species. T. R. Spoke multiple languages and could read books in french or german. Jefferson, that classic line of john f. Kennedys, there was a dinner at the white house that there were never that many brilliant people there that night except when jefferson dined alone. [laughter] those two in my mind are the ones. Sometimes a writer can help a president along. Harry truman was not a great writer. He never graduated from high school. His memoirs are solid. He was living in independence, missouri without a lot going on with the vietnam war and civil rights, and there is truman at his home. There was a filmmaker that came right before he died and interviewed him. In that book, you can hear as a storyteller, not a writer, trumans sense of storytelling is remarkable. Just like bill clintons ability to tell stories. It is different than the writing. It is just a remarkable way of putting bits of americana together. Truman read deeply in American History, but he was not a literary type per se. Hayden i think we have to thank cspan for selecting the list. We cant wait to hear what other people are going to say. And im sure there are things being typed in right now. People are saying, what, you did not mention this . You have an opportunity to do it. Mr. Brinkley its like this Desert Island where you pick your tent and no matter what you are leaving pick your ten and no matter what you are leaving the rest of the universe out. I congratulate cspan for doing this and getting us talking about books and partnering with the library of congress. Hopefully there are more of these events to come. The list of 10 grows to 100. Hayden we have a gigantic book club. We just all do it together. Thank you. Mr. Brinkley thank you so much. 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