Transcripts For CSPAN Afghanistan Reconstruction 20140616

Order. Recognize other member seeking recognition for one minute each. We will hear from our witnesses and we thank them for their patience and understanding. That goes for the audience as well. We have had 16 votes. We thank you for the time. The witnesses prepared statements will be made a part of the record. Members have five days to insert statements and questions for the record subject to the length in the rules. Before we begin, i would like to give my sincere condolences to the family and friends of the five american troops who were killed in afghanistan just yesterday recently. No words can adequately express the debt of gratitude that we owe to those brave troops and our thoughts and prayers are certainly with them and their families at this troubling time. The chair recognizes herself for five minutes. Lessons learned from the u. S. Stabilization of the reconstruction operation in iraq. The purpose of that hearing was to examine the final report to get a better understanding of how the u. S. Approaches reconstruction efforts and where we can improve so we will not be construct combined with the same problem and repeat the same mistakes. The major take away from that hearing in addition to the billions of dollars in wasted theayer money was that United States government was unable to adequately plan, execute, and oversee such largescale operations. Have we learned any lessons from iraq . How we learn to use our assistance more effectively and more efficiently . We may have implemented a fewer forms as a result of the recommendation from these oversight entities in front of us question mark it seems like we still have a long way to go to be Good Shepherds of taxpayer dollars. Several things are strikingly obvious. Gao and cigars have undertaken an important task keeping congress informed on that status of our operations there. With a true prescience winding down, their ability would be severely restricted due to the security situation and lack of access. This will make it difficult for them and for us in Congress Keep proper tabs on all of the u. S. Projects in afghanistan. Another is that for all of our efforts and desire to do good in afghanistan, we have glaring deficiencies that must be addressed. 103 has allocated over billion dollars to afghanistan relief. Back then government is still not capable of handling such a large inclusion of money, goods, and their equipment. It is incapable of achieving longterm stability. Often times usaid would Fund Projects that are too large and too ambitious. It leaves the afghans with facilities that are larger and. Ore expensive to operate used andpitals no one unstaffed because afghans cannot find the funds nor the staff to operate them. These efforts are not economical and are not practical. As a result, it is a waste of taxpayer dollars. The result of this large to incapableoney of can system is twofold. That isrt reads conducted by the joint coalition operational analysis, they determined that the vast influx of money overwhelms the Afghan Governments capacity. This helps foster an environment of corruption that has worked against our interest from the start. As general allen once said, corruption is the existential. Trategic to afghanistan together result is that it created an environment in which we are not tackling the root cause of the issue. The only way for afghanistan to maintain and sustain the progress it has made under these relief and reconstruction efforts is to continue to rely on donor contribution to fill the revenue gap. That is not sustainable for afghanistan, nor is it sustainable or us in the United States. Were losing all of those gains. In 2009, the administration decided it was going to allege to provide 50 of the developmental aid in direct assistance. In fact, gao reports we went over470 million in 2009 to 1. 4 billion in 2010. Year, severalsame reports, including one Commission Directive by usaid, decided have illequipped the afghan ministries were to receive direct assistance. And cigar raise their warning five. Cigar is reporting that usaid had ignored recommendations and may have approved direct assistance without dedicating these risks. How we to conduct proper oversight of state of usaid, dod . Are fullyre they complying with the recommendations of the rules and regulations laid out by congress to make sure u. S. Dollars are put to the best use . Cigar identified several major lessons that should have been learned in iraq that should be applied in afghanistan. These include the need to implement better interagency coordination and use our funds wiser, more efficiently, and more effectively. If we are still running into the same problems in afghanistan as we did in iraq, now that we are transitioning, is it time for congress to reexamine how we conduct these operations and consider implementing muchneeded reform . The obvious answer is yes, of course. With that, i am pleased to yield to the Ranking Member of florida. Thank you, madame chairman. I would also like to give my condolences to the families of the five troops were killed yesterday in afghanistan. We spent a lot of time here talking about what our government does. It is the men and women who serve our government in tough places like this that we need to keep in mind. We need to keep in mind their families. Todays hearing comes on the troops will remain in afghanistan until tony 15. Trillions of dollars and thousands of american lives 2015 greeted trillions of dollars and thousands of american lives have been lost. Those cannot bear any more of American Life sacrifice. A recent gallup poll found for the First Time Since the war in afghanistan began, more americans view the war as a mistake. After the u. S. Has given so much in blood and treasure, what do we have to show for it . Have our resources been wisely spent . The state department of the fence and usaid has projects it off and stand. They have done tremendous work this date department of defense and usaid has projects all over afghanistan. We have done tremendous work. He deserved to be commended for what they are doing. Necessaryting the measures in place to make sure the structure we built to help their society are sustainable and will remain in place long after we leave . Accounting for billions of dollars across multiple agency is so easy task. Agencies is no easy task. We want to combat any potential abuses. In 2008 how congress established a special Inspector General Afghanistan Reconstruction with the goal of not just tracking waste, fraud, and abuse, but do recommend more effective methods of reconstruction in afghanistan. Angst to the work of cigar and oversight investigations conducted by gao thanks to the work of cigar and oversight investigations conducted by gao it is clear evidence of these challenges can be seen throughout our footprint in afghanistan. Gao identified numerous weaknesses and an overlap of funding accounts. Increase the potential for duplication of projects and programs. ,he recommended shared database but it appears little progress to advanced that recommendation has been made. In 2012, gao recommended that Congress Take legislative action to require that u. S. Agencies report information on activities in a shared database. Usaid agreed. Dod did not. Singer has raised serious concerns over the inability to terminate contracts with contractors are found to have insurgent our opposition forces. They lacked authority to terminate the contract. Under existing law, the agency will likely have to pay the full cost of any contract and complete the termination. The implication of these proper forms and other recommendations will help maximize and achieve greater results. Alsomicro level, cigar has had numerous examples of wasted funds. It sat unused in storage control of the u. S. Army corps of engineers. Will highlight other examples of concerns. I would like to use my time on how we can do is fancy Going Forward. Our work will not end with the last american troop leading. Are many ongoing programs have been many successful here and we have made great strides. This amount increases access to education, especially for when. Woman. Will we provide oversight to make sure projects stay on track . It has been used successfully in a number of other challenging environment. There are critical components required for these monitoring programs and whether they believe this type of Remote Monitoring can be successful in afghanistan . Believe we are doing important work that directly impacts the security of this country. It is my hope that the hearing will shed light on how to ensure that congress, state, dod, and usaid are working together in the most effective and efficient way possible. So please to yield to our subcommittee chairman. Andhank you, madam chair, calling for this hearing. Concernss have ongoing about the future of afghanistan. Is obamas recent announcement that he was pulling all but im hundred u. S. Troops out by and pulling all of the troops out by the end of tony 16 is troubling 2016 is troubling. It tells the taliban have to wait or us to leave before they can then at least in their mind take over the country. Puts at riskment im afraid the sacrifices of our men and women in uniform have made in that country, not to mention the billions of dollars the u. S. Has invested in stabilization relief and reconstruction efforts. I fear we may see something similar to what we saw in iraq. They were all pulled out. We sought with fallujah. Saw it with falluja. I would hate to see a repeat of that. Thank you for holding this. Thank you so much. Mr. Hagans of new york. Thank you, madame chair. In one year, we spent 75 in reconstruction. One for turbine in the southwest. 20 30 million for highway project in the east. 230 million for a highway project in the east. The assessment of all of those requires a one that lot of explanation. Approved tot year ,ebuild the bridges in america we spent 89 million over a 12 year period doing that in afghanistan. At the very least, the corrupt nature of the government, the inadequacy of the Afghan Security forces does not justify the commitment that we have made. And forward to listening to the work of Inspector General and the rest of the panel and explain these issues more deeply. Thank you. Thank you, madame chair. I will be short. Lets go. Thank you. Thank you for holding todays hearing. I extend my sympathies to the families of the five soldiers who were killed in afghanistan. We begin drawing down combat operations in afghanistan. The responsibility rested with Afghan People to operate and maintain the civilian and military capacity. The u. S. Has built an important foundation, but the sustainable peace can only be accomplished people afghanistan afghanistan take on responsibility. It has been important to our mission. I hope that all would agree that we need to ensure that whatever funds have been used and will be used are used widely and that theyre building programs that are sustainable and institutions that arent sustainable that are sustainable. A lot of information needs to be provided with a look at the magnitude. I look forward to hearing the two witnesses today. Thank you. Andhank you, chairwoman Ranking Member for calling this important hearing. It is important that we conduct this oversight in order to ensure that american taxpayer dollars are being used appropriately. I want to ensure that various agencies and departments are working efficiently here and making use of best practices. Without appropriate oversight, money will go to waste in afghanistan. I also look for to a discussion of how to discuss with the American People the issue that is the subject of this hearing. Afghanistan is the emotional issue for the American People. As we finally leave afghanistan, we need to make sure we are communicating effectively and honestly with the American People about the departure and what will come next. Thank you. Thank you. We are pleased to introduce our witnesses. He has more than 30 years of expenses as a prosecutor, congressional counsel senior federal government advisor. He was sworn in as a special july 2,r general on 2012. Johnson, in his role, he assesses u. S. Counterterrorism and security efforts focusing on afghanistan, pakistan, and other terrorist safe havens. Prior to this comment he was an assistant direct your in gao Homeland Security. He also spent the year detailed with the house of representatives and Homeland Security committee. We think the gentleman for his patience and expertise and waiting around. We are so pleased to yield to you now. Thank you very much. Members of the subcommittee, it is a pleasure to be here today to discuss my agencies oversight of reconstruction efforts in afghanistan. Todays hearing as you have noted is very timely. As you are well aware, we are in the middle of a pivotal transitional year in afghanistan. The political and economic transition will undoubtedly shape afghanistans future for many years to come. For instance, the president ial Runoff Election could result in the first peaceful democratic transition of president ial power in afghanistan history. Likewise, a few weeks ago, the president announced his plan to reduce our military presence to approximately 10,000 troops by the end of 2014 and by the end of 2016, the u. S. Presence in afghanistan will be reduced to a normal and the sea Operation Embassy operation. This is largely due to previous commitments made by the u. S. And International Community at the chicago and tokyo conferences come in addition to the weak state of the afghanistan economy and the limited capability of the Afghan Government to collect revenue. This is more than the u. S. Has ever spent to rebuild any single country in our history. To give this number some context, but the end of this year, we will have spent your money on Afghanistan Reconstruction than we did to rebuild europe under the Marshall Plan after world war two. This year alone, we plan to spend more money on Afghanistan Reconstruction and we spend on the next four countries that is israel, egypt, pakistan, and iraq combined. And on for scene consequence of this historic investment has been that we have infrastructure and a Security Force and the National Government that the afghans cannot currently assisting on their own. In government generates it needs as much as 10 billion annually to cover all government operations, including the important act in a national Security Forces. As a result, for many years to come, that the government will depend on external assistance from the United States and International Community to meet this budget shortfall. Accordingly, it is critical that an effective management and oversight remain a top priority for all u. S. Agencies has proved here to enter a post 20 post 2014 reality in afghanistan. This is extremely important given that appropriated reconstruction funds remains to be spent by u. S. Agencies as of march 30 1, 2014, including approximately 7 billion by the state department and usaid. Today, cigar and the oversight comrades at gao already contending with the restricted based on our best estimate, less than 20 of afghanistan will be accessible to civilian oversight personnel in december of this year. That is more than a 50 increase since 2009. We are developing innovative methods to respond to the security environment. The oversight must be missioncritical. If it is not, the historic investment we have made to date and the aliens more yet to be sent will be significantly vulnerable to possible waste, fraud, and abuse. They do her the opportunity to testify. Thank you very much. Mr. Johnson. Theanking members of subcommittee, i am pleased to be here to discuss key issues. Has issuedto mop gao special publication in 2013 highlighting key issues for oversight. There are briefings on u. S. Efforts in afghanistan. We have made over 150 recommendations on actions that should be taken to improve program planning, management, and oversight. I would like to highlight a few key issues. Among them are the need to mitigate against key risk of inviting assistance to the Afghan Government to, and as the chair noted, including the need for a database and the need for Contingency Planning as the u. S. Transitions to a per dominantly civilian let residents. Alone with u. S. Other International Members ledge to provide at least 50 of its developmental assistance. This was contingent on certain controls being in place. We reported in 2011 that the u. S. Would fulfill its pledge by tripling in the first year. Going from about 47 million to about 1. 4 billion in fiscal year 2010. We report that while they had established and comply with various internal controls, it had not always assessed the rest of at of providing direct assistance. Theesponse to recommendations, we have learned of the followon findings which approve direct assistance to some afghan ministries without mitigating against all identified risks. Regarding oversight and accountability of these Development Projects with respect to afghanistan since 2002, they have allocated more than 23 billion for these projects. While they have taken some steps to improve this evaluation effort, it continues to consistently not apply these Performance Management issues. They fell short of maintaining Institutional Knowledge in some areas. Member noted in his opening statement, to avoid the potential overlap and to ensure a full accounting of statefunded development o has made multiple recommendations dating back to 2008. This is to account for u. S. Funded projects. Although they have taken some steps to designate a database, nearly six years later, we continue to report on the need for a database. Regarding the need for Contingency Planning, in , we reported013 while circumstances in iraq differ from afghanistan, lessons could be learned from that transition. When you transition from a military to a civilian led presence. Oversight and accountability in likely are tory be challenged by multiple factors including a dangerous security environment, the presence of corruption, and the abilities of the Afghan Government. The plans to invest billions more in afghanistan, a challenging working environment and the uncertainty of the Bilateral Agreement underscores the need for Contingency Planning. Would like to personally thank the dedicated gao Staff Members that have put their lives on the line in carrying out oversight. Gao stands ready to assist the congress in assuring that there is oversight accountability of the partnership and afghanistan. I thank you for the opportunity to testify. That concludes my statement. Thank you both for excellent testimony. I will begin with a question and answer segment of our meeting. Corruption is so systemic and invasive in afghanistan that it only serves to exacerbate the already difficult obstacles facing the governments ability to govern effectively. It undermines but the security of the International Forces and the Afghan People. It roads the peoples confidence in their government. While it leads them to distrust us and it leads to wasted billions of taxpayer dollars. For all of these warnings and all of the reports we have had about corruption in afghanistan, we have yet to develop an anticorruption policy. Thatkarzai acknowledged this is a major obstacle to progress. How is it even possible that we still do not have an anticorruption policy. Even as we are spending billions of dollars in direct assistance to afghan ministries despite all of the warnings. Do we have any insight into updated amounts of direct assistance. In speaking to the direct assistance issue, after the assessment that the afghan ministries were not ready, were not capable of receiving direct assistance and after toommendations from gao mitigate all identified risks before proceeding with direct aid proceededs anyway without regard to the warnings. Why did they continue to provide direct assistance despite the warnings . Are there any other instances where usaid has ignored recommendations. How would you characterize your and whathip with usaid does Congress Need to do to ensure that usaid is in full compliance before Going Forward with these high risk programs. I am also greatly concerned about the implication of efforts. We see overlaps between state rogerd on infrastructure because there is no central and comprehensive database. Say isng you both would seriously lacking in something that we need to address, what else would you say Congress Needs to do to make sure that us dod are all counsel for billions of dollars were spending in afghanistan and what tools do you need us to give to you to ensure that you have everything that you need to continue to do your work . I know it will be extremely difficult for you with the troop drawdown and the uncertainty. We want to help you to keep you safe while you continue to perform your duties. Thank you. Starting with your last point , and that is on assistance. I think it would be useful for to respond to the very valid recommendation that they have made about a centralized database. Know if that is authorization or procreations language. One of the problems that we had was that we do not even know where the money has been spent. You start with that problem. By requiring the agencies to put together that database, that would be extremely useful. We are starting to do that ourselves. We are starting to collect this information. It is the role of the Inspector General to be able to collect this. This is something that should be done. As for the issue of direct assistance, i think a serious id hadm here was that a finally done some really good assessments. He praised them in our audit that came out this year. They assessed the afghan ministries and what we hoped they would have done would be to actually use that as a leverage tobargain on conditionality get in place, particularly in the future and it will be more difficult to go out there and kick the tires of the programs. Unfortunately, they waved it. We do not have an answer on why they waved it. I can chime in with some updated numbers. Corruption will remain a challenge and has been one of the Biggest Challenges that the u. S. And others face in operating in afghanistan. The rough amount is 800 million for honey 12. From 1. 4. A dropoff theyre not quite at that goal. It is still pretty significant. In terms of what more congress can do, i would agree that you can consider mandating the that has the entire Inventory Development project. Earlier, states have taken action. Info has been diagnosed as the official database. They have basically not agreed to keenly put their stuff in that database. We suggest that congress may need to mandate that given the surplus funding. All of the potential funding that exists. We look at that more in depth. We look at this under development assistance. We did not find exact duplication. Cases of potential duplication between the agencies. Wasdata that dod duplicating did not go down to the level that it needed to. Shared database would hold that information. Attention of the congress on the agency requesting money every year. With respect to cooperation with gao, i would say that over the last two years or 18 months there have been significant challenges in terms of normal operation with usaid. They have previously been one of the more cooperative agencies. Thank you very much. If i could just add i, echo the statement from the college from gao. While we have had very good support from dod on cooperation, particularly from general dunford, general cole and a number of those colleagues over there. We have had some problems with usaid and getting the improper classification of material. Sensitive, but unclassified. Can i just added to my colleagues numbers . I think he was focusing on the usaid direct assistance. The biggest player in all of this is dod. 4. 2is giving approximately oh yen dollars in direct assistance. That is going to the ministry of defense. Thee we were focusing on ,id ministerial assessments there still has been nothing on the ministerial and 10 are your interior and the ministry of defense. Our Ranking Member is recognized. Thank you, madam chairman do you understand that there has been more money spent on afghan reconstruction than the Marshall Plan . By the end of this year, taking into consideration inflation. What is the total amount spent by this country on afghanistan . The appropriations on Afghanistan Reconstruction is 103 billion i believe. Youor both of you, as analyze what we referred to as waste, fraud, and abuse, but ultimately im a fraud is waste as well. From all of the good reports that you have put out, is there a total . Is there a total amount of that 103 billion, is there a total amount wasted . I am not in position to give you an exact figure on that. That is something that we have not looked at. There have been various inefficiencies. There have been concerns about whether there is an inventory. Many in the agency were not keeping good performance metrics. Whether the money had been used to attain its goals. I agree. He cannot come up with an estimate. We would be spending all of our time trying to figure out what was lost in the past. It is safe to say that a lot of money has been wasted. Probably more wasted than actually stolen. If we do not even know where the money is spent, it is hard for us to come up and quantify, particularly the standards, which is the standard auditing standards, how much money was wasted. We do not know how much of that money was spent. 103ou have to take that billion that is authorized and appropriated, 18 billion is still in the pipeline. That money is still safe. It has not been appropriated yet. The vast majority was spent by dod. That can be on numerous programs. I am not saying that is wasted. Mainly dod. Dod is the big player in Afghanistan Reconstruction. I also want to look forward for everything you have looked at in all of your reports, there are plenty of examples you have pointed to where because of lack of systems in place, lack of fraud, thecontractor myriad of reasons we have discussed, there has been a significant amount of waste. It would be helpful if there was some range, even of the reports you have done, the review you have done. Here is my point. I want to look forward, too. As we deal with the issued of a shared database, it is a whole lot easier to convince all of our colleagues here and those that may not be inclined to support us, why it is important ond speaking generally about the kinds of problems that can exist, we would point out billion in taxpayer been, that x percent has wasted. Recreatesking you to the wheel. After all of the analysis, you must have some sense. Point thatack to the a lot of stuff was not done efficiently. It cost more than it would have cost and other contingency areas. The biggest amount of the u. S. Contribution has been on the security side. That goal was supposed to have been accomplished in 2008. Time and the over many years where we put an enormous amount of money, the benchmarks continue to be reset every single year. We have lowered their capability ratings. Trying to get these guys to operate the way our Security Forces operate. That is not afghan first. We wasted a lot of money in the. S. Type ofuying u equipment. We built a force that the Afghan Government cannot sustain that they will be relying on donors to support. The United States has paid for that. We are the largest contributor on the security side. In terms of waste and efficiencies, it could have been done more efficiently. We can give you examples where they were going to build a road that dod had already done. At his white you need a shared database. Usaid would like to know what dod has already left behind. What is the biggest impediment to the shared database . We do not really see a major impediment. Ares position is that they concerned about the security of the database itself. The firewall that will prevent others from getting in. It is reluctance on the part of dod to engage with usaid. K every twohem a dis or three months to upload. The data is getting in there eventually, but it is not ready to upload. Does the hesitancy on the part of dod is there a concern about what we see . The 103 billion is dod funding. We are not in position to identify the total amount of waste. Is there a concern Going Forward some of what you described, i would expect that our friends at dod would view differently than the way you described it. Changing standards and why standards were changed. What should we do to help convince them that this is necessary . I go back to where i started. I would urge you, for all of the analysis that has been done, it would be immensely helpful for us to have a conversation, not just about Going Forward, that if we cannot acknowledge that we have spent 100 billion and we know that billions have been wasted, but we cannot identify some ballpark range of what that is or where it comes from, then that makes it even harder to support. It makes it harder to support continued funding. If we are not able to identify what the problems were to start with. Thank you so much. To aso pleased to yield real war hero of iraq and afghanistan. Thank you, madam chair. Tank you all for being here. Thing at the top is for everybody to remember why we are in afghanistan in the first place. It was a Beautiful Day in september and we were attacked in the United States of america when we thought we were completely defensible why two oceans. Thousands of americans lost their lives. Since that day, thousands of americans have lost their lives caring for the Afghan People. Thousands of afghans have lost their lives. We see the postwar mission of afghanistan. And securityople forces are stepping up to secure their country. There are going to be a lot of challenges. The president announced his plan to withdraw nearly all American Service members from afghanistan. He is going to leave in place approximately 9800 service members. In the fall, that will be reduced to the amount necessary to keep security at our embassy in kabul. Whatve the parallels with has happened in iraq and what the president has outlined and afghanistan. A place that i have been multiple times, has just fallen to extremists. See what happens in a postamerican situation. This will place a significant demand on the Afghan National Security Forces. 20022013e years of funding went towards securing afghanistan including developing the Security Forces and the counter narcotics efforts. With the looming u. S. Drawdown, more of the onus will be placed on the Afghan National Security Forces to maintain the stability of the country. A large portion of the money we have invested has gone to the security. Are they prepared to take the lead . Can they sustain an environment in which the element and Infrastructure Projects will succeed . Or 13 years we fought to create an environment that can do this. At the end of the day, we want to make sure that we are not going to fulfill a campaign promise. , history books will judge us very harshly if that is the case. I will go with you first. Is there an environment where in a post american environment they can succeed . There are a couple of parts. Succeed. Ourse they can there have been great successes with the military. You have seen the Afghan Military hold their own. I think everyone is hopeful that they will continue in that robust fashion. There are concerns. The Major Concerns that i have highlighted and the general has highlighted, if there is no bsa, there is likely we think that there will be. We are hopeful. I have no inside information. That is what i have read in the press. Most candidates said they would sign it. I cannot speak to general dunford. He is the expert on military capabilities. It is basically the back end of the ansf. Support,ies, the getting them to understand and how to do that, which is what the vasting on and majority of the assistance will be trying to make that military capable of doing that. We have looked at spare parts, we have looked at fuel, we have looked at the addressee. And all of those areas, there are major problems. I understand that you are not a policy maker, so i am not putting this on you. In 2016, the president puts out something that counterterrorism is a good mission. In 2017, it is not a good mission because we will pull all only foroops out, embassy security. Assuming that we have two years in which tumor accurately bring the afghans to where they can operate without american assistance, there is a lot of progress that has to be made in two years. If all troops have to be out today, what do you think would happen in the future of afghanistan and those reconstruction projects . That gives us a benchmark of where we need to be in two years. I would have to referred to the testimony of general dunford , who i think was over here in the House Armed Services committee, maybe the senate Armed Services committee. He said that if we pulled out today, there would be a collapse. I have to rely on his expertise. I do not have any studies on that. I do not have any audits on that. Instead of having a mission for the next couple of years where we are focused on withdrawal and pulling out, it might be smart to have a mission past 2016 in which we can have a longterm game to get afghanistan where they want to be. Thank you very much. Esther connolly of virginia is recognized. Thank you. Know you want to look forward before we do that, we need to glance backward and see what we have learned or not learned. Reading your reports and press stories and listening to your testimony, i have got to tell you, one has the awful sense of deja vu all over again. With vietnam for example, lots vietnam. Ney thrown at there was no aspect of life in South Vietnam that we were not helping to finance. The waist, the fraud, the lack of metrics to show what we did or did not when i, as the chairwoman know, i used to be a staff member, we use have a chart, a very helpful one. Showingst bigots chart all its spigots chart showing all of the things from assistance. L when you referred to 103 billion is that all spigots . All of the dod money . Title 10. T reconstruction. 103 billion for the duration of this war . Only u. S. Funded and would that include yes it would. That is our universe. I know you are reluctant. Tell me how much you are comfortable with and if you think could perform pretty well by some metric. Congressmen, i would love to tell you 50 , 60 or what ever but i live unfortunately in the world of generally accepted government accounting standards and i cannot say that. Andow my good colleague iraq reconstruction came up with a number and it was later shown to be wrong and nothing support it. I cannot say that. I look at specific programs and whether it succeeds or did not and they run a risk. Are going and we alerting people to run a risk of fraud or waste. I assume my colleagues have the same. We cannot come in and say they have lost x amount or succeeded. We have identify some successes. The last time i testified before another committee, i sent a letter to secretary of defense and said give me your success stories. And why. And i thought it would be used, if we could use that in our analysis of Lessons Learned. I cannot answer that question. I do not have a basis. Let me tell you the consequences of not being able to answer that question. It says to the public by implication, that was wasted. Psychometrics , 30 percent, absolutely went to the purpose intended and is performing well. Another 20 , a little grayer category. Whatever the matrix may be. I cannot answer that question at all. It suggests to the United States taxpayer, 103 billion of reconstruction is down the drain in afghanistan. 100 . With all due respect, and inspection general you ask could not, vaig, answer that question. I do not know if the american and the response or answer would be that all of the money is wasted. You cannot give us a enough money to answer that question. We would spend all of our time trying to highlight what works. If you actually look at our legislation, you look at 78 ag. Is not to find out what works. My brief is given to me by you, to highlight problems, not to highlight successes. You also answer to my colleagues question, how much is wasted . On hownot put a metric successful we have done and neither can we apparently have a metric for mr. Deutschs question about how much we feel comfortable is wasted. The biggest problem we both face as an entity is this poor data is being collected. When data is collected, i will give an example. Program, theve agriculture program, an enormous amount of data is coming in. They do not assess the data. Actually, it requires them to and targets. Ated they were given the money to their partners reporting results without using it. For us to come in appreciateson, i your answer. This is 2014. We have been running the Bilateral Aid Program since it immediately after world war ii. This is not a new subject. Absolutely. Are no you mean there records to evaluate the efficacy of the program . How is that possible . Along, 100 3 billion. With the recommendations we have made, perhaps others will be more accountable in terms of when we come up and ask you guys for money and they do not have a metrics. Please continue. Recs i thank the chair. I thank the chair. Something that bothered me was in a in a category sense, it was wellintentioned Walking Around money. Military officer commander could see a problem and fix it on the spot. C a bridges out and let me repair it. That program became an enormous equivalent Bilateral Aid Program run by the military who are not experts. And it is all cash. One worries, a category of what could go wrong with that . I wonder if you could share with us your observation and the program. You areessman, highlighted an issue we have serious concerns are wet. I think many members have serious concerns and if i could make a comment, probably a little bit out of my league. I think it was a wise decision a year consolidated appropriations , it was pretty well cut. 2. 29e wasnt nearly billion obligated which has been disbursed. In january of this year, we sent a letter to dod regarding all of the on obligated fundss and metrics. We are still in the process of doing that and once it is done, i am happy to report back to you and other committees what we are finding. It was a good intention, but if i can answer, use that question to try to answer your question and mr. Deutschs question. Even taking that money. Some of it actually works. It is going to be so difficult to face on doing that. Thats only 2 billion. To do that for every one of these programs is going to be very difficult of what percentage works and what percentage did not. We have to take the mattress and apply bear metrics. What my colleague and i are saying is we are not given to the metrics or they do not use the metrics. How do we determine whether it works or not . I have been prorated by dod for even questioning the serp proposal because it saved lives. I do not know what that means. That that was the metric they wanted to use. It is hard for me to then take the that saving lives and sang the 2. 2 billion was wisely spent. That is where you see the predicament we are in. Probably inson is the same predicament. Thank you. While some of us may say when i was in iraq or afghanistan, here is a man who was really in afghanistan. A vet who is still serving our country failing and lee. Ntly. Liat are getting ready to agree wholeheartedly right here. Look, yall pointed out things i came for other questions and i will get to those in a minute. Here,body is here, dod is or you are watching by camera, these who are supposed to oversight what is being spent. Tell me they are not getting the metrics to spend money. They are not getting the metrics on how to evaluate these programs. Cut the is time to money off. Maybe it is time to say, lets stop. This is the problem i have seen. I am for being in the military. I have no problem with that. I have a huge problem with no accountability. People in the knife and district of georgia do not get it. We are not spending monopoly money. People in the ninth district of georgia do not get it. It is coming out of my back pocket or your back pocket, it is tax dollars. We have a v a system that has problems and issues. We have this problem where we are blowing money and we do not get the metrics. Are you kidding me . Madam chair, this is amazing to me. I feel for you. If youre trying to do a job within no metrics. Trying to do a job where they it, been money, spend happy. We are not going to provide some metrics. So what . Center dot to me. I will ask the questions. They can get mad at me. Sending them to me. I was in forcing to take in forcing to take a closer look at various projects over in afghanistan. Over 1 as we said, billion. What promise do we have if we continue this . Some things we need to do to hopefully keep this country stable. And not have to send our sons and daughters are back there in a matter of a few years or others there. How can we take this seriously if others cannot even provide metrics because they do not want to . How can we have any effect . Either of you can answer that. It is definitely difficult and that is part of the way we do our work. We need to measure progress to keep the objectives and goals. We absolutely need metrics. They need to be collected routinely and not every so many years. They should be collecting those dependent on the type of program it is throughout the lifetime of the program and making those available to us. They should be approving the metrics they are asking their partners to carry out. And quite frankly, there are deficiencies in that area. How do you came up, gather and collect information in a war zone or environment like this . They have done in other locations. Pakistan where they collected data. To report oneans progress. I do not think it is something that cannot be done in afghanistan. Can i add something to my colleague . Something that congresswoman alluded to. It is a Lessons Learned from iraq and from vietnam. I cited a report done by aid in 1988. And it is a lessons to learn report on aids operations in afghanistan from 19501979. I cannot find anybody in our eversy or aid, who had read it. It is 12 years. If i was being assigned to aid, i would think i will want to read my Lessons Learned. Very prominent general, a wise general who said i am in the army and we do Lessons Learned by going to the bathroom and pulling paper. We write to them like crazy. One of the things you can do and congress can do is a mandate that each of the services do these Lessons Learned reports. But more importantly, stay to do them. And in the future, this will be an all government approach to a problem. And that means we need to state and dodid at any other agencies involved do combined Lessons Learned reports on contingencies. Remember under goldwater, you created purple and in military. You have not created a purple in contingencies. You are not requiring state and aid to do the same in depth analysis and Lessons Learned like all of the various i know you served in the military, so you understand the reports. It produces doctrine. You are not seeing combine doctrine on the next contingency. I throw that out at you. Maybe not for afghanistan but we shall learn from our mistakes before we do it again. That something you may want to consider. You will indulge me. I understand what you are saying. What bothers me is simply looking at this, it is a simple business plan. You do not get money for, i have an idea. The measuresy that have to be applied before the money is transferred . Once it goes in, it does not matter. Have, i will go back to mr. Connollys statement, whether good or bad, i come from a background, it either or. I would discount immediately and show where it is wrong. Something in the middle is done well. Repeatedly, at this the people of the ninth district want the truth and what is going on and they will accept the truth even if it is hard but they will not accept incompetence. This is simply incompetence you unveiled. Maybe community services, they may call it what ever, the dod may call it whatever, it is incompetence. Plain and simple, incompetence. I do not understand how we can continue to do this. Frankly disturbs me. I do not think we learned a lesson. I had to doo Lessons Learned. I had to tell the person coming in who took my job, who here is a Lessons Learned. It had to do with what we found on the ground and how you work it out. I applaud your work. But in some ways, i feel for you. You are in a nowin situation. And this country ought to be ashamed. We can do better. We can do better. If we truly want to fix it, we can do better. , comeency i am talking to and explain your and competence to me. I yield. Is just as a conclusion. As of march 31st, reconstruction in afghanistan billion. Oximately 117 this is more than the United States has ever spent to rebuild a single country. Sigar findings were not conducted for 99 of those awards. Usaid did not meet strategy objectives using indicators to major and evaluate toward meeting the strategys ago. And it has princely reported on systematic weakness and the monitoring and Evaluation Program carried out by partners in afghanistan. Gao and other oversight agencies have highlighted gaps that show usaid continued to inconsistently applied Performance Management procedures, fall short in knowledge and needs to improve oversight of contractors. The subcommittee will continue to do its work and we thank you gentlemen for appearing before us will stop with that, the subcommittee has an adjourned. Us. Ppearing before and with that, the subcommittee has adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] the house returns for leadership elections and work on federal spending bills. A look at the house agenda. Billy house is the correspondent. House republicans will hold elections next thursday replacing eric cantor. Kevin mccarthy is poised to become the next leader. Are there any other challenges . Idaho hasntative from decided he wants to challenge mccarthy for that number to post an house leadership roster. He and mccarthy will be making their pitches on wednesday morning. In a closeddoor session. And then on thursday though for Conference Full 33 members will willon that and the house switch position if mccarthy goes to number two. Craig how about the house for majority