Transcripts For CNNW Presidential Debate 20121023

Game. Where do you spend your tv money, where do you pull back, it is crunch time. The reason all of this is because it is a divided nation. You saw the most recent poll which is ironically 47 for each candidate. Wolf blitzer. Will be interested to see if either of these two candidates has any factual errors. Im going to be listening very, very closely. Some of these Foreign Policy issues are very nuanced, very complex and one misstatement could cause some international ramifications. Going to be listening very carefully. Bob schieffer is already seated at the table. Within a few second he will introduce both of these candidates. They will come in. Hell read the rules, the ground rules that were so carefully negotiated between these two campaigns, and the president ial debate commission. Everything, everything, has been negotiated. Heres Bob Schieffer. Good evening from the campus of Lynn University here in boca raton, florida. This is the fourth, and last, debate of the 2012 campaign brought to you by the commission on president ial debates. This ones on Foreign Policy. Im Bob Schieffer of cbs news. The question are mine and i have not shared them with the candidates or their aides. The audience has taken a vow of silence, no applause, no reaction of any kind, except right now when we welcome president barack obama and governor mitt romney. Gentlemen, your campaigns have agreed to certain rules and they are simple. Theyve asked me to divide the evening into segments. Ill pose a question at the beginning of each segment. You will each have two minutes to respond, and then we will have a general discussion until we move to the next segment. Tonights debate, as both of you know, comes on the 50th anniversary of the night that president kennedy told the world that the soviet union had installed Nuclear Missiles in cuba. Perhaps the closest weve ever come to nuclear war. And it is a sobering reminder that every president faces at some point an unexpected threat to our National Security from abroad. So lets begin. The first segment is the challenge of a changing middle east and the new face of terrorism. Im going to put this into two segments so youll have two topic questions within this one segment on the subject. The first question and it concerns libya, the controversy over what happened there continues. Four americans are dead, including an american ambassador. Questions remain of what happened, what caused it. Was it spontaneous. Was it an intelligence failure. Was it a policy failure. Was there an attempt to mislead people about what really happened. Governor romney, you said this was an example of an american policy in the middle east that is unraveling before our very eyes. Id like to hear each of you give your thoughts on that. Governor romney, you won the toss, you go first. Thank you, bob. And thank you for agreeing to moderate this debate this evening. Thank you to Lynn University for welcoming us here and mr. President , it is good to be with you again. We were together at a humorous event a little bit earlier. It is nice to maybe be funny this time, not on purpose. Well see what happens. This is obviously an area of great concern to the entire world and to america in particular which is to see a complete change in the structure and the environment in the middle east. With the arab spring came a great deal of hope that there would be a change towards more moderation and opportunity for greater participation on the part of women and in public life and in the Economic Life in the middle east. But instead weve seen in nation after nation a number of disturbing events. Of course we see in syria, 30,000 civilians having been killed by the military there. We see in libya an attack apparently by i think we know now by terrorists of some kind against our people there, four people dead. Our hearts and minds go to them. Mali has been taken over, the northern part of mali, by al qaedatype individuals. We have in egypt a Muslim Brotherhood president. What were seeing is a pretty dramatic reversal in the kind of hopes we had for that region. Of course the greatest threat of all is iran, four years closer to a Nuclear Weapon. Were going to have to recognize that we have to do as the president s done. I congratulate him on taking out Osama Bin Laden and going after the leadership in al qaeda. But we cant kill our way out of this mess. Were going to have to put in place a very comprehensive and robust strategy to help the world of islam and other parts of the world reject this radical violent extremism which is certainly not on the run. It is certainly not hiding. This is a group that is now involved in 10 or 12 countries and it presents an enormous threat to our friends, to the world, to america, long term, and we must have a comprehensive strategy to help reject this kind of extremism. Mr. President. Well, my first job as commander in chief, bob, is to keep the American People safe. And thats what weve done over the last four years. We ended the war in iraq. Refocused our attention on those who actually killed us on 9 11. And as a consequence, al qaedas core leadership has been decimated. In addition, were now able to transition out of afghanistan in a responsible way, making sure that afghans take responsibility for their own security. And that allows us also to rebuild alliances and make friends around the world to combat future threats. Now, with respect to libya, as i indicated in the last debate, when we received that phone call, i immediately made sure that number one, we did everything we could to secure those americans who were still in harms way. Number two, that we would investigate exactly what happened. And number three, most importantly, that we would go after those who killed americans an we would bring them to justice. Thats exactly what were going to do. But i think it is important to step back and think about what happened in libya. Keep in mind that i and americans took leadership in organizing an International Coalition that made sure that we were able to, without putting troops on the ground, at the cost of less than what we spent in two weeks in iraq, liberate a country that had been under the yoke of dictatorship for 40 years. Got rid of a despot who had killed americans, and as a consequence, despite this tragedy, you had tens of thousands of live yans aftbyans events in benghazi marching and saying america is our friend, we stand with them. Now that represents the opportunity we have to take advantage of. And governor romney, im glad that you agree that we have been successful in going after al qaeda. But i have to tell you that, your strategy previously has been one that has been all over the map. And is not designed to keep americans safe or to bill on the opportunities that exist in the middle east. Well, my strategy is pretty straightforward, to go after the bad guys, do our best to interrupt them, kill them, to take them out of the picture. But my strategy is broader than that. Thats important, of course. But the key that were going to have to pursue is a pathway to get the muslim world to be able to reject extremism on its own. We dont want another iraq. We dont want another afghanistan. Thats not the right course for us. The right course for us is to make sure we go after the people who are leaders of these various antiamerican groups and these jihadists, but also help the muslim world. How do we do that . The group of arab scholars came together, organized by the u. N. , to look at how we can help the world reject these terrorists. The answer they came up with is this. One more economic development. We should key our foreign aid, our direct Foreign Investment and that of our friends, we should coordinate it to make sure that we push back and give them more economic development. Number two, better education. Number three, gender equality. Number four, the rule of law. We have to help these nations create civil societies. But whats been happening over the last couple of years is as weve watched this timult in the middle east, this riled tide of chaos, you see al qaeda rushing in, other jihadist groups rushing in and theyre throughout many nations in the middle east. It is wonderful that libya seems to be making some progress despite this terrible tragedy. Next door we egypt, 80 million population. We want to make sure that were seeing progress throughout the middle east with mali now having north mali taken over by al qaeda, with syria having assad continuing to kill murder his own people. This is a region in tumult. Iran on the path to a Nuclear Weapon well get to that. Lets give the president a chance. Governor romney, im glad that you recognize that al qaeda is a threat. Because a few months ago when you were asked whats the biggest geopolitical threat facing america, you said russia. Not al qaeda. You said russia. In the 1980s are now calling to ask for their Foreign Policy back because the cold wars been over for 20 years. But governor, when it comes to our Foreign Policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the social policies of the 1950s, and the economic policies of the 1920s. You say that youre not interested in duplicating what happened. In iraq. But just a few weeks ago you said you think we should have more troops in iraq right now. And the challenge we have i know you havent been in a position to actually execute Foreign Policy, but every time youve offered an opinion, youve been wrong. You said we should have gone into iraq despite the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction. You said that we should still have troops in iraq to this day. You indicated that we shouldnt be passing Nuclear Treaties with russia despite the fact that 71 senators, democrats and republicans, voted for it. Youve said that first we should not have a timeline in afghanistan, then you said we should. Now you say maybe, or depends, which means not only were you wrong, but you were also confusing and sending mixed messages to both our troops and our allies. So what we need to do with respect to the middle east is strong, steady leadership, not wrong and reckless leadership that is all over the map. And, unfortunately, thats the kind of opinions that youve offered throughout this campaign, and it is not a recipe for american strength or keeping america safe over the im going to add a couple of minutes here to give you a chance to respond. Well, of course, i dont concur with what the president said about my own record and the things that ive said. They dont happen to be accurate. But i can say this. That were talking about the middle east and how to help the middle east reject the kind of terrorism were seeing and the rising tide of tumult and confusion and attacking me is not an agenda. Attacking me is not talking about how were going to deal with the challenges that exist in the middle east and take advantage of the opportunity there and stem the tide of this violence. But ill respond to a couple things you mentioned. First of all, russia i indicated is a geopolitical foe. Not excuse me. It is a geopolitical foe. I said in the same paragraph, i said, and iran is the greatest National Security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the u. N. , time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. Im not going to wear rose colored glass wes when it comeso russia or mr. Putin. With regards to iraq, you and i agreed that there should have about ban status of forces agreement. Thats not true. You didnt want a status of forces agreement . No. What i would not have done is left 10,000 troops in iraq that would tie us down. That certainly would not help us in the middle east. Im sorry, you actually there was an effort on the part of the president to have a status of forces agreement and i concurred in that and said that we should have some number of troops that stayed on. That was something i concurred with. That was your posture, that was my posture as well. Governor, this is just a few weeks ago that you indicated that we should still have troops in iraq. Sorry, thats not you indicated that in a major speech. I indicated that you failed to put in place a status of forces agreement at the end of the conflict governor, heres one thing ive learned as commander in chief. Youve got to be clear. Both to our allies and our enemies about where you stand and what you mean. You just gave a speech a few weeks ago in which you said we should still have troops in iraq. That is not a recipe for making sure that we are taking advantage of the opportunities and meeting the challenges in the middle east. Now, it is absolutely true that we cannot just meet these challenges militarily. And so what ive done throughout my presidency and will continue to do is number one, make sure that these countries are supporting our counterterrorism efforts. Number two, make sure that they are standing by our interests in israels security because it is a true friend and our greatest ally in the region. Number three, we do have to make sure that were protecting religious minorities an women because these countries cant develop unless all the population not just half of it is developing. Number four, we do have to develop their economic capabilities. Number five the other thing that we have to do is recognize that we cant continue to do nation building in these regions. Part of American Leadership is making sure that were doing nation building here at home. That will help us maintain the kind of American Leadership that we need. Let me interject the second topic question in this segment about the middle east and so on. And that is, you both mentioned alluded to this, and that is syria. War in syria has now spilled over into lebanon. We have more than 100 people that were killed there in a bomb. There were demonstrations. There are eight people dead. Mr. President , its been more than a year since you told assad he had to go. Since then 30,000 syrians have died. Weve had 300,000 refugees. The war goes on. Hes still there. Should we reassess our policy and see if we can find a better way to influence events there, or is that even possible . You go first, sir. What weve done is organize the International Community saying assad has to go. Weve mobilized sanctions against that government. We have made sure that they are isolated. We have provided humanitarian assistance and we are helping the opposition organize. Were particularly interested in making sure were mobilizing the moderate forces inside of syria. But ultimately, syrians are going to have to determine their own future. So everything were doing were doing in consultation with our partners in the region including israel which obviously has a huge interest in seeing what happens in syria, coordinating with turkey and other countries in the region that have a great interest in this. Now, what were seeing taking place in syria is heartbreaking. And thats why we are going to do everything we can to make sure that we are helping the opposition. But, we also have to recognize that for us to get more entangled militarily in syria is a serious step. And we have to do so making absolutely certain that we know who we are helping, that were not putting arms in the hands of folks who eventually could turn them against us or our allies in the region. And i am confident that assads days are numbered. But what we cant do is to simply suggest that, as governor romney at times has suggested, that giving lev weapons, for example, to the Syrian Opposition is a simple proposition that would lead us to be safer over the long term. Governor . Well, lets talk about whats happening in syria and how important it is. First of all, 30,000 people being killed by their government is a humanitarian disaster. Secondly, syria is an opportunity for us, because syria plays an Important Role in the middle east, particularly right now. Syria is irans only ally in the arab world. Its their route to the sea. Its the route for them to arm hezbollah in lebanon which threatens of course our ally, israel. And so seeing syria remove assad is a very high priority for us. Number two, seeing a replacement government being responsible people is critical for us. And finally, we dont want to have military involvement there. We dont want to get drawn in to a military conflict. So the right course for us is working through our partners and with our own resources to identify responsible parties within syria, organize them, bring them together in a form of if not government, a form of council that can take the lead in syria and then make sure they have the arms necessary to defend themselves. We do need to make sure that they dont have arms that get into the wrong hands. Those arms could be used to hurt us down the road. We need to make sure as well that we coordinate this effort with our allies, and particularly with israel. But the saudis and the turks and qataris are all very willing to work with us. We need a very effective leadership in syria making sure that the insurgents there are armed and that the insurgents that become armed are people who will be the responsible parties. Recognize, i believe that assad must go. I believe he will go. But i believe we want to make sure that we have the relationships, a friendship with the people that take his place such that in the years to come we see syria as a friend and syria as a responsible party in the middle east. This is a critical opportunity for america and what im afraid of is that weve watched over the past year or so, first the president saying well let the u. N. Deal with it and assad excuse me, kofi annan came in and said well have a ceasefire. That didnt work. Then looked to the russians saying see if you can do something. We should be playing the leadership role there, not on the ground with military. We are playing a leadership role. We organize the friends of syria. We are mobilizing humanitarian support and support for the opposition. And we are making sure that those we help are those who will be friends of ours in the long term and friends of our allies in the region over the long term. But going back to libya there is an example of how we make choices. When we went in to libya, and we were able to immediately stop the massacre there, because of the unique circumstances and the coalition that we had thoepd organi helped to organize, we had to make sure Moammar Gadhafi couldnt stay there. To the governors credit, he supported the coalition that we organized. But whether it came time to making sure gadhafi did not stay in power, that he was captured, governor, your suggestion was that this was mission creep, that this was mission muddle. Imagine if we had pulled out at that point. Moammar gadhafi had more american blood on his hands than any individual other than Osama Bin Laden. And so we were going to make sure that we finished the job. Thats part of the reason why the libyans stand with us. But we did so in a careful, thoughtful way, making certain that we knew who we were dealing with, that those forces of moderation on the ground were ones that we could work with, and we have to take the same kind of steady, thoughtful leadership when it comes to syria. Thats exactly what were doing. Governor, can i just ask you, would you go beyond what the administration would do, like for example, would you put in nofly zones over syria . I dont want to have our military involved in syria. I dont think there is necessity to put our military in syria at this stage. I dont anticipate that in the future. As i indicated, our objectives are to replace assad and to have in place a new government which is friendly to us, a responsible government, if possible, and i want to make sure they get armed and they have the arms necessary to defend themselves, but also to remove assad. But i do not want to see a military involve. On the part of our troops. This isnt going to be necessary. We have with our partners in the region, we have sufficient resources to support those groups. But look, this has been going on for a year. There is a time this should have been a time for American Leadership. We should have taken a leading role, not militarily but a leading role organizationally, governmentally, to bring together the parties there to find responsible parties. As you hear from intelligence sources even today, the insurgents are highly disparate. They havent come together. They havent formed a unity group, a council of some kind. That needs to happen. America can help that happen and we need to make sure they have the arms they need to carry out the very Important Role which getting rid of assad. Can we get a quick response, mr. President . Ill be very quick. What you just heard governor romney said is he doesnt have different ideas and thats because were doing exactly what we should be doing to try to promote a moderate syrian leadership and an effective transition so that we get assad out. Thats the kind of leadership weve shown. Thats the kind of leadership well continue to show. May i ask you, you know, during the egyptian turmoil, there came a point when you said it was time for president mubarak to go. Right. Some in your administration thought perhaps we should have waited a while on that. Do you have any regrets about that . No, i dont. Because i think that america has to stand with democracy. The notion that we would have tanks run over those young people who were in tahrir square, thats not the kind of American Leadership that john f. Kennedy talked about 50 years ago. But what ive also said is that now that you have a democratically elected government in egypt, they have to make sure that they take responsibility for protecting religious minorities. We have put significant pressure on them to make sure theyre doing that. To recognize the rights of women which is critical throughout the region. These countries cant develop if young women are not given the kind of education that they need. They have to abide by their treaty with israel. Thats a red line for us. Because not only is israels security at stake, but our security is at stake if that unravels. They have to make sure that theyre cooperating with us when it comes to counterterrorism and we will help them with respect to developing their own economy, because ultimately, whats going to make the egyptian revolution successful for the people of egypt, but also for the world, is if those young people who gathered there are seeing opportunities. Their aspirations are similar to young peoples here. They want jobs. They want to be able to make sure their kids are going to a good school. They want to make sure that they have a roof over their heads and that they have the prospects of a better life in the future. And so one of the things that weve been doing is, for example, organizing entrepreneurship conferences with these egyptians to give them a sense of how they can start rebuilding their economy in a way thats noncorrupt, thats transparent, but what is also important for us to understand is that for america to be successful in this region, there are some things that were going to have to do here at home as well. One of the challenges over the lft decade is we hadone experim and weve neglected developing our own Education System and it is hard to project leadership around the world when were not doing what we need do. Governor romney, i want to hear your response to that but i would just asking with you would you have stuck with mubarak . No. I believe as the president indicated. And said at the time that i supported his action there. I felt that i wish wed have had a better vision of the future. I wish that look backality the beginning of the president s term and even further back than that that wed have recognized there was a growing energy and passion for freedom in that part of the world and that we would have worked more aggressively with our friend and with other friend in the region to have them make the transition towards a more representative form of government such that it didnt explode in the way that it did. Once it exploded i felt the same as the president did which is these freedom voices and the streets of egypt where the people who were speaking of our principles and the president mubarak had done things which were unimaginable and the idea of him crushing his people was not something that we could possibly support. Let me step back and talk about what i think our mission has to be in the middle east and even more broadly. Because our purpose is to make sure the world is peaceful. We want a peaceful planet. We want people to be able to enjoy their lives and know theyre going to have a bright and prosperous future, not be at war. Thats our purpose. Mantel of leadership for promoting the principles of peace has fallen in america. For us to be able to promote those principles of peace requires us to be strong. And that begins with a Strong Economy here at home. Unfortunately, the economy is not stronger. When the president of iraq excuse me, of iran, ahmadinejad, says that our debt makes us not a great country, thats a frightening thing. Former chief joint chiefs of staff said that admiral mullen said that our debt is the biggest National Security threat we face. We have weakened our economy. We need a Strong Economy. We need to have as well a strong military. Our military is second to none in the world. Blessed with terrific soldiers, Extraordinary Technology and intelligence. But the idea after trillion dollar in cuts to the budget of the military would change that. We need strong allies. Our association and connection with our allies is essential to americas strength. Were the great nation that has allies. 42 allies and friends around the world. Finally we have to stand by our principles. If were strong in each of those things, american influence will grow. But unfortunately, in nowhere in the world is americas influence greater today than it was four years ago. All right. Thats because perfect, youre going to get a chance to respond to that because thats a perfect segue into our next segment, and that is what is americas role in the world. And that is the question. What do each of you see as our role in the world and i believe governor romney, it is your turn to go first. Well, i absolutely believe that america has a responsibility and the privilege of helping defend freedom and promote the principles that make the world more peaceful. And those principles include human rights, human dignity, free enterprise, freedom of expression, elections, because when there are elections, people tend to vote for peace. They dont vote for war. So we want to promote those principles around the world. We recognize that there are places of conflict in the world. We want to end those conflicts to the extent humanly possible. But in order to be able to fulfill our role in the world, america must be strong. America must lead. And for that to happen, we have to strengthen our economy here at home. You cant have 23 Million People struggling to get a job. You cant have an economy that over the last three years keeps slowing down its growth rate. You cant have kids coming out of college, half of whom cant find a job today. Or a job thats commensurate with their college degree. We have to get our economy going. And our military. Weve got to strengthen our military long term. We dont know what the world is going to throw at us down the road. We make decisions today in the military that will confront challenges we cant imagine. In the 2000 debates, there was no mention of terrorism, for instance. And a year later 9 11 happened. So we have to make decisions based upon uncertainty and that means a strong military. I will not cut our military budget. We have to also stand by our allies. I think the tension that existed between israel and the United States was very unfortunate. I think also pulling our Missile Defense program out of poland in the way we did was also unfortunate in terms of if you will, disrupting the relationship in some ways that existed between us. Then of course, with regards to standing for our principles, when the students took to the streets in tehran and the people there protested, the green revolution occurred for. For the president to be silent i thought was an enormous mistake. We have to stand for our principles, stand for our allies, stand for a stronger military and stand for a stronger economy. Mr. President. America remains the one indispensable nation. And the world needs a Strong America and it is stronger now than when i came into office. Because we ended the war in iraq, we were able to refocus our attention on not only the terrorist threat but also beginning a transition process in afghanistan. It also allowed us to refocus on alliances and relationships that had been neglected for a decade. Governor romney, our alliances have never been stronger. In asia, in europe, in africa, with israel where we have unprecedented military and intelligence cooperation, including dealing with the iranian threat. But what we also have been able to do is position ourselves so we can start rebuilding america. Thats what my plan does. Making sure that were bringing manufacturing back to our shores so that were creating jobs here as weve done with the Auto Industry. Not Rewarding Companies that are shipping jobs overseas. Making sure that weve got the best Education System in the world. Including retraining or workers for the jobs of tomorrow. Doing everything we can to control our own energy. Weve cut our oil imports to the lowest level in two decades. Because weve developed oil and natural gas but we also have to develop Clean Energy Technologies that will allow us to cut our exports in half by 2020. Thats the kind of leadership that we need to show. And weve got to make sure that we reduce our deficit. Unfortunately, governor romneys plan doesnt do it. Weve got to do it in a responsible way by cutting out spending we dont need but also by asking the wealthiest to pay a little bit more. That way we can invest in research and technology thats always kept us on the cutting edge. Now governor romney has taken a different approach throughout this campaign. Now both at home and abroad, he has proposed wrong and reckless policies. Hes praised george bush as a good economic steward and dick cheney as somebody who shows great wisdom and judgment, and taking us back to those kinds of strategies that got us into this mess are not the way that we are going to maintain leadership in the 21st century. Governor romney, wrong and reckless policies. Ive got a policy for the future, an agenda for the future. When it comes to our economy here at home, i know what it takes to create 12 million new jobs and rising takehome pay. What weve seen over the last four years is something i dont want to see over the next four years. The president said by now wed be at 5. 4 unemployment. Were 9 million jobs short of that. I will get america working again and see rising take home pay again and ill do it with five simple steps. Number one, we are going to have north American Energy independence. Were going to do it by taking full advantage of oil, coal, gas, nuclear and our renewables. Number two, were going to increase our trade. Trade grows about 12 per year. Doubles about every five or so years. We can do better than that, particularly in latin america. The opportunities for us in latin america, we have just not taken advantage of fully. Matter of fact, latin americas economy is almost as big as the economy of china. Were all focused on china. Latin america is a huge opportunity for us. Time zone, language opportunities. Number three, were going to have to have Training Programs that work for our workers. And schools that finally put the parents and the teachers and the kids first and the teachers unions going to have to go behind. Then we have to get to a balanced budget. We cant expect entrepreneurs and businesses large and small to take their life savings or their companys money and invest in america if they think were headed to the road to greece. Thats where were going right now unless we finally get off the spending and borrowing binge. Ill get us on track to a balanced budget. And finally, number five, weve got to champion Small Business. Small business is where jobs come from. Twothirds of our jobs come from Small Businesses. New business formation is down to the lowest level in 30 years under this admission. I want to bring it back and get back good jobs and rising takehome pay. Well lets talk about what we need to compete. First of all, governor romney talks about maul businesses. Governor, when you were in massachusetts, Small Businesses development ranked about 48th, i think out of 50 states in massachusetts because the policies that you are promoting actually dont help Small Businesses and the way you define Small Businesses include folks at the very top. They include you and me. Thats not the kind of Small Business promotion we need. But lets take an example that we know is going to make a difference in the 21st century and thats our education policy. We didnt have a lot of chance to talk about this in the last debate. Under my leadership, what weve done is reformed education, working with governors, 46 states, weve seen progress and gains in schools that were having a terrible time. And theyre starting to finally make progress. And what i now want to do stoo hi is to hire more teachers especially in math and science. We know weve fallen behind when it comes to math and science and those teachers can make a difference. Governor romney, when you were asked by teachers whether or not this would help the economy grow, you said this isnt going to help the economy grow. When you were asked about reduced class sizes, you said class sizes dont make a difference. But i tell you, if you talk to teachers, they will tell you it does make a difference. And if weve got math teachers who are able to provide the kind of support that they need for our kid, thats whats going to determine whether or not the new businesses are created here. Companies are going to locate here depending on whether weve got the most highly Skilled Workforce and the kinds of budget proposals that youve put forward, when we dont ask either you or me to pay a dime more in terms of reducing the deficit but instead we slash support for education, thats undermining our long term competitiveness. That is not good for americas position in the world. And the world notices. Let me get back to Foreign Policy. I can just get back i need to speak a moment, bob, just about education. Okay. Im so proud of the state that i had the chance to be governor of. We have every two years tests that look at how well our kids are doing. Fourthgraders and eighthgraders are tested in english and math. While i was governor, our fourthgraders came out number one in all 50 states in english and also in math. Fourthgraders, number one in english, and in math. First time the state had been number one in all four measures. How do we do that . Republicans and democrats came together on a bipartisan basis to put in Place Education principles that focused on having Great Teachers in the classroom. That was what allowed us to become the number one state in the nation. But that was ten years before you took office. Then you cut education spending when you came in to office. The first and we kept our schools number one in the nation. Theyre still number one today and the principles that we put in place. We also gave kids not just a graduation example. To determine whether they were up to the skills needed to be able to competeut also if they graduated the top quarter of their class they got a fouryear tuitionfree ride at any massachusetts Public Institution of higher learning. That happened before you came into office. That was actually mine, mr. President. I want to try to shift it because we have heard some of this in the other debates. Governor, you say you want a bigger military, you want a bigger navy. You dont want to cut defense spending. What i want to ask you, were talking about financial problems in this country. Where are you going to get the money . Well, lets come back and talk about the military but all the way through. First of all, im going through from the very beginning. Were going to cut 5 of the discretionary budget excluding military. Can you do that without driving us deeper into debt . Ill be happy to have you take a look. Come on our website. You can look to how we get to a balanced budget within eight to ten years by reducing spending in a whole series of programs. Number one id get rid of is obama care. A number of things sound good but frankly, we cant afford them. That one doesnt sound good and it is not affordable. I get rid of that on day one. We take program after program that we dont absolutely have to have and we get rid of them. Number two, we take some programs that we are going to keep like medicaid which is a program for the poor. Take that Health Care Program for the poor and we give it to the states to run because states run these programs more efficient efficiently. As a governor, i thought please, give me this program. I can run this more efficiently than the federal government and states are proving it. States like arizona, rhode island have taken these medicaid dollars, have shown they can run these programs more cost effectively. I want to do those two things. It gets to us a balanced budget within eight to ten years. But the military lets get back to the military though. Thats what im trying to he should have answered the first question. Look. Governor romneys called for 5 trl of t trillion of tax cuts that he says hell pay for by closing deductions. Now the math doesnt work but he continues to claim hes going to do it. He then wants to spend another 2 trillion on military spending that our militarys not asking for. Now keep in mind that our military spending has gone up every single year that ive been in office. We spend more on our military than the next ten countries combined. China, russia, france, united kingdom, you name it. Next ten. And what i did was work with our joint chiefs of staff to think about what are we going to need in the future to make sure that we are safe. And thats the budget that weve put forward. But what you cant do is spend 2 trillion in additional military spending that the militarys not asking for, 5 trillion on tax cuts, you say that youre going to pay for it by closing loopholes and deductions without naming what those loopholes and deductions are, and then somehow youre also going to deal with the deficit that weve already got. The math simply doesnt work. But when it comes to our military, what we have to think about is not just budgets. Weve got to think about capabilities. We need to be thinking about cyber security. We need to be thinking about space. Thats exactly what our budget does but its driven by strategy. Its not driven by politics. Its not driven by members of congress and what they would like to see. Its driven by what are we going to need to keep American People safe. Thats exactly what our budget does. And it also then allows us to reduce our deficit, which is a significant National Security concern. Because weve got to make sure that our economy is strong at home so that we can project military power overseas. Bob, im pleased that ive balanced budgets. I was in the world of business for 25 years. You didnt balance your budget, you went out of business. I went to the olympics that was out of balance and we got it on balance and made a success there. I had the chance to be governor of a state four years in a row, democrats and republicans came together to balance the budget. We cut taxes 19 times. Balanced our budget. The president hasnt balanced a budget yet. I expect to have the opportunity to do so myself. Im going to be able to balance the budget. Lets talk about military spending. Thats this. 30 seconds. Our navy is excuse me, our navy is smaller now than any time since 1917. The navy said they needed 313 ships to carry out their mission. Were now at under 285. Were head hadded down to the low 200s if we go through a skwe sequestration. I want to make sure the navy has the ships that are required. Weve changed for the First Time Since fdr since fdr weve always had the strategy of saying we could fight if two conflicts at once. Now were changing to one conflict. This is my view is the highest responsibility of the president of the United States which is to maintain the safety of the American People. And i will not cut our military budget by a trillion dollars which is a combination of the budget cuts the president has as well as the sequestration cuts. That in my view is making our future less certain and less secure. Bob, i just need to comment on this. First of all, the sequester is not something ive proposed. It is Something Congress has proposed. It will not happen. The budget we are talking about is not reducing our military spending. It is maintaining it. But i think governor romney may be hasnt spent enough time looking at how our military works. You mentioned the navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, govern he, we also have fewer horses and bayonets because the nature of our militarys changed. We had these things called aircraft carriers where planes land on them. We have these ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines. So the question is not a game of battleship where were counting slips. Its what are our capabilities. So when i sit down with the secretary of the navy and the joint chiefs of staff, we determine how are we going to be best able to meet all of our defense needs in a way that also keeps faith with our troops, that also makes sure that our veterans have the kind of support that they need when they come home. And that is not reflected in the kind of budget that youre putting forward, because it just doesnt work. We visited the website quite a bit. And it still doesnt work. Lot to cover. Id like to move to the next segment. Red lines, israel and iran. Would either of you youll have two minutes. And president obama, you have the first go at this one. Would either of you be willing to declare that an attack on israel is an attack on the United States . Which of course is the same promise that we give to our close allies like japan. And if you made such a declaration, would not that deter iran . It certainly deterred the soviet union for a long, long time when we made that promise to our allies. Mr. President . First of all, israel is a true friend. It is our greatest ally in the region. And if israel is attacked, america will stand with israel. Ive made that clear throughout my presidency. So youre saying weve already made that declaration. I will stand with israel if they are attacked. This is the reason why working with israel, we have created the Strongest Military and intelligence cooperation between our two countries in history. In fact, this week well be carrying out the Largest Military exercise with israel in history, this very week. But, to the issue of iran, as long as im president of the United States, iran will not get a Nuclear Weapon. I made that clear when i came into office. We then organized the strongest coalition and the strongest sanctions against iran in history. And it is crippling their economy. Their currency has dropped 80 . Their Oil Production has plunged to the lowest level since they were fighting a war with iraq 20 years ago. So their economy is in a shambles. The reason we did this is because a nuclear iran is a threat to our National Security, and it is a threat to drlisrael National Security. We cant afford to have a Nuclear Arms Race in the most volatile region in the world. Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism and for them to be able to provide Nuclear Technology to nonstate actors, thats unacceptable. And they have said they want to see israel wiped off the map. So the work that weve done with respect to sanctions now offers iran a choice. They can take the diplomatic route and end their nuclear program, or they will have to face a united world, and a United States president , me, who said were not going to take any options off the table. The disagreement i have with governor romney is that during the course of this campaign hes often talked as if we should take premature military action. I think that would be a mistake, because when ive sent young men and women into harms way, i always understand that that is the last resort, not the first resort. Two minutes. Well, first of all, i want. To underscore the same point the president made which is that if imanticipate president of the United States, when im president of the United States, we will stand with israel. And if israel is attacked, we have their back. Not just diplomatically, not just culturally, but military. Thats number one. Number two, with regards to iran and the threat of iran, theres no question but that a knnuclea capable iran is unacceptable to america. It presents a threat not only to our friends but ultimately a threat to us to have iran have Nuclear Weapons that could be used against us or threatening to us. It is also essential for us to understand what our mission is in iran. That is to dissuade iran from having a Nuclear Weapon through peaceful and diplomatic means. And cripplining sanctions are something i called for five years ago. I laid out seven steps. Crippling sanctions were number one. And they do work. Are you seeing it right now in the economy. It is absolutely the right thing to do to have crippling sanctions. Id have put them in place earlier but it is good that we have them. Two, something id add today, i would tighten those sanctions. I would say ships that carry iranian oil cant come into our ports. I would imagine the eu would agree with us as well. Not only ships couldnt, but companies who are moving their oil cant. People who are trading in their oil cant. I would tighten those sanctions further. Secondly, id take on diplomatic isolation efforts. Id make sure that ahmadinejad is indicted under the genocide convention. I would indict him for it. I would also make sure their diplomats are treated like the pariah they are around the world, the same way we treated the apartheid diplomats of south africa. We need to increase pressure time and time again on iran because anything other than a solution to this which says which stops this Nuclear Folly of theirs is unacceptable to america. And of course, a military action is the last resort. It is something one would only consider if all of the other avenues have been tried to their full extent. Let me ask both of you, as you know, there are reports that are on in the United States as part of an International Group have agreed in principle to talks about Irans Nuclear program. What is the deal if there are t such talks. What is the deal you would accept . Well, first of all, those are reports in the newspaper. They are not true. But our goal is to get iran to recognize it needs to give up its nuclear program. And abide by the u. N. Resolutions that have been in place, because they have the opportunity to reenter the community of nations. And we would welcome that. There are people in iran who have the same aspirations as people all around the world for a better life. And we hope that their leadership takes the right decision. The deal well accept is to end their nuclear program. Its very straightforward. Im glad governor romney agrees with the steps were taking. There have been times during the course of this campaign where it sounded like you thought that you do the same things we did, but youd say them louder. Somehow that would make a difference. It turns out the work involved in setting up these crippling sanctions is painstaking. Its meticulous, we started from the day we got into office. And the reason it was so important, and this is a testament to how weve restored american credibility and strength around the world, we had to make sure all the countries participated. Even countries like russia and china. If its justus imposing sanctions, weve had sanctions in place for a long time. Its because we got everyone to agree that iran is seeing so much pressure, we have to maintain that pressure. There is a deal to be had. They abide by the rules that have already been established. They convince the International Community they are not pursuing a nuclear program. There are inspections that are very intrusive. Over time, what they can do is regain credibility. In the meantime were not going to let up on the pressure until we have the effort take place. The clock is ticking. Were not going to allow iran to perpetually engage in negotiations that lead nowhere. Ive been very clear to them. Because of the intelligence coordination we do, with a range of countries including israel. We get a sense of when they would get breakout capacity, which means we would not be able to intervene in time to stop their nuclear program. That clock is ticking. Were going to make sure if they do not meet the demands of the International Community, we are going to take all options necessary to make sure they dont have governor . I think from the beginning, one of the challenges weve had with iran, is they have looked at the administration, and felt the administration was not as strong as it needed to be. They saw weakness where they expected to find american strength. The president in his campaign four years ago said he would meet with all the worlds worst actors in his first year, with kim jongil, castro and president ahmadinejad of iran. I think they looked and thought, thats an unusual honor to receive from the president of the United States, and then the president began what i called an apology tour, of going to various nations in the middle east and criticizing america. I think they looked at that and saw weakness. Then when there were dissidents in the streets of tehran Holding Signs saying, is america with us, the president was silent. I think they noticed that as well. I think that when the president said he was going to create daylight between ourselves and israel, that they noticed that as well, all of these things suggested i think to the iranians that we can keep on pushing along here, we can keep talks going on, were going to keep spinning centrifuges. Now theres some 10,000 centrifuges spinning uranium preparing to create a Nuclear Threat to the United States and the world. Thats unacceptable for us, and its acceptable for a president to show strength from the beginning, to make it clear what is acceptable and not acceptable. An Iranian Nuclear program is not acceptable to us. They must not develop nuclear capability. The way to make sure they understand that is to make sure they have the tightest sanctions possible. They need to be tightened. Our diplomatic isolation needs to be tightened. We need to put the pressure on them as hard as we can. If we do that, we wont have to take the military action. Nothing governor romney just said is true. Starting with this notion of me apologizing. This has been the biggest statement of the campaign. The governor has looked at every statement and said this is not true. When it comes to tightening sanctions, look, as i said before, we put in the toughest, most crippling sanctions ever. And the fact is, while we were coordinating an International Coalition to make sure these sanctions were effective, you were still invested in a Chinese State oil company that was doing business with the iranian oil sector. Ill let the American People decide, judge, whos going to be more effective and credible when it comes to imposing crippling sanctions. With respect to our attitude, i was very clear about the 34urderrous activities that had taken place, and that was contrary to International Law and everything that civilized people stand for. And so the strength that we have shown in iran is shown by the fact that weve been able to mobilize the world. When i came into office, the world was divided. Iran was resurgent. Iran is at its weakest point economically, strategically, militarily in many years. We are going to continue to keep the pressure on to make sure they dont get a Nuclear Weapon. That will be the case so long as i am president. Were four years closer to a nuclear iran. We should not have been able to waste these four years to the event they were able to spin a centrifuge. Mr. President , the reason i call it an apology tour, you flew to the middle east, turkey, iraq. You skipped israel. Our closest friend in the region, but you went to the other nations and by the way, they noticed that you skipped israel. And in those nations and on arabic tv, you said america had been dismissive and dericive, you said on occasion america had dictated to other nations. Mr. President , america has not dictated to other nations we have freed other nations from dictators. If were going to talk about trips weve taken. When i was a candidate for office, the first trip i took was to visit our troops. And when i went to israel as a candidate, i didnt take donors, i didnt attempt fundraisers, i went to the Holocaust Museum there, to remind myself the nature of evil, and why our bond with israel will be unbreakable. And then i went down to the border towns of staroke which had experienced missiles raining down from hamas, and i saw families who showed me where missiles had come down near their childrens bedrooms, i was reminded what that would mean if those were my kids. Which is why as president we funded an Iron Dome Program to stop those missiles. Thats how ive used my travels, when i travel to israel and travel to the region. And the central question at this point is going to be, whos going to be credible to all parties involved . And they can look at my track record, whether its irans sanctions, dealing with counter terrorism, supporting democracy. Whether its supporting womens rights, supporting religious minorities and they can say the president of the United States and the United States of america stood on the right side of history. And that kind of credibility is precisely why weve been able to show leadership on a wide range of issues facing the world right now. What if the Prime Minister of israel called you on the phone and said, our bombers are on the way were going to bomb iran. Lets not go into hypothetic hypotheticals. Our relationship with israel, my relationship with the Prime Minister is not that we would get a call saying the bombers are on the way. Lets just well, let me see no. Lets come back to what the president was speaking about, which is whats happening in the world and the president s statement that things are going so well. I look at whats happening around the world, and i see iran four years closer to a bomb. I see the middle east with a rising tide of violence, chaos, tumult. I see jihadists continue to spread. Whether theyre rising at just about the same level is hard to precisely measure, its clear theyre there. I see syria with 30,000 civilians dead. Assad still in power. I see our trade deficit with china, larger than its growing larger every year as a matter of fact. I look around the world and i dont feel that you see north korea continuing to export their Nuclear Technology. Russia said theyre not going to follow a nonnuclear proliferation treaty any more. I see our importance receding in part because of the president , in part because of our withdrawal to our commitment to the military and the way it ought to be. In part because of the turmoil with israel. The president received a letter from 38 democrat senators saying that tensions with israel were a real problem. They asked him, please repair the tensions. Democrat senators, please repair the damage in his own party. All right. Governor, the problem is, that on a whole range of issues, whether its the middle east, afghanistan, iraq, whether its now iran, youve been all over the map. I mean, im pleased that you now are endorsing our policy of applying diplomatic pressure and potentially having bilateral discussions with the iranians to enter the nuclear program. Just a few years ago, that was something you would never do. Just the same way you proposed a timetable in afghanistan. Now youre for it . It depends. In the same way you say you would have ended the war in iraq, but recently gave a speech saying we should have 20,000 more folks in there. The same way you said that it was Mission Creek to go after gadhafi. When it comes to going after osama bin ladin you said any president would make that call. I said if i had bin ladin in our sights, i would take that shot. You said we shouldnt move heaven and earth for one man, we should ask pakistan permission. After we killed bin ladin i was at ground zero for a memorial and talked to a young woman who was four years old when 9 11 happened, and the last conversation she had with her father was him calling from the twin towers, saying payton, i love you, and i will always watch over you. And for the next decade she was haunted by that conversation, she said to me, you know by finally getting bin ladin that brought some closure to me. When we do things like that, when we bring those who have harmed us to justice, that sends a message to the world. And it tells payton that we did not forget her father. I make that point because thats the kind of clarity of leadership, and those decisions are not always popular. Those decisions generally are not poll tested. Even some in my own party, including my current Vice President had the same critique as you did. What the American People understand is, i look at what we need to get done to keep the American People safe and move our interests forward and i make those decisions. Okay. Lets go, and that leads us to the next segment, governor. Americas longest war in pakistan. You cant have the president just lay out a whole series of items without giving me a chance to with respect, sir, you had laid out quite a program. Thats true. Well agree on that. Well catch up. The United States is scheduled to turn over responsibility for security in afghanistan to the Afghan Government in 2014. At that point we will withdraw our combat troops, leave a smaller force of americans, if i understand our policy, in afghanistan for training purposes. It seems to me the key question here is, what do you do if the deadline arrives and it is obvious the afghans are unable to handle their security . Do we still leave . And i believe governor romney, you go first . Were going to be finished by 2014, when im president , well make sure we bring our troops out by 2014. The commanders and generals are on track to do so. Weve seen progress over the past several years. The surge has been successful, and the Training Program is proceeding at a good pace. Theyre now a large number of Afghan Security forces, 350,000 that are ready to step in to provide security and were going to be able to make that transition by the end of 2014, so our troops will come home at that point. I can tell you at the same time, we look at whats happening in pakist pakistan, recognize whats happening in pakistan is going to have a major impact on the success in afghanistan. I say that because i know a lot of people think we should wash our hands and walk away. Pakistans being nice to us, and we should walk away. Pakistan is important to the region, the world and us. Pakistan has Nuclear Warheads and theyre rushing to build a lot more. Theyll have more than Great Britain in the near future. They have the Accounting Network and taliban exist an the within their country. So a pakistan that falls apart would be of extraordinary danger to afghanistan and to us and so were going to have to remain help envelope encouraging pakistan to move toward a more stable government and rebuild the relationship with us. And that means that our aid that we provide to pakistan is going to be conditioned upon certain benchmarks being met. For me, i look at this as a need to help move pakistan in the right direction, and also to get afghanistan to be ready, and they will be ready by the end of 2014. Mr. President . When i came into office, we were still bogged down in iraq, and afghanistan had been drifting for a decade. We ended the war in iraq, refocused our attention on afghanistan, we delivered a surge of troops. That was facilitated in part because we had ended the war in iraq. And we are now in a position where we have met many of the objectives that got us there in the first place. We werent because people who were responsible for 3,000 american deaths. We decimated al qaedas poor leadership between afghanistan and pakistan. We then started to build up afghan forces, and were now in a position where we can transition out. Because theres no reason why americans should die when afghans are perfectly capable of defending their own country. That transition has to take place in a responsible fashion. Weve been there a long time, and weve got to make sure that we and our Coalition Partners are pulling out responsibly and giving the afghans what they need. What the American People recognize is after a decade of war, we can now free up some resources to put americans back to work, especially our veterans, rebuilding our roads, bridges, schools. Making sure that our veterans are getting the care that they need, when it comes to posttraumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury. Making sure that the certifications that they need for good jobs of the future are in place. I was having lunch with some a veteran in minnesota who had been a medic dealing with the most extreme circumstances when he came home and he wanted to become a nurse, he had to start from scratch. What we have said is, lets change those certifications. The first ladys done great work with an Organization Called joining forces, putting our veterans back to work. As a consequence, veterans unenemployment is now lower than the general population, it was higher when i came into office. Those are the kinds of things we can now do because were making that transition in afghanistan. Let me go to governor romney. You talked about a pakistan and what needs to be done there. General allen our commander in afghanistan says that americans continue to die at the hands of groups who are supported by pakistan. We know that pakistan has arrested the doctor who helped us catch bin ladin. We continue to give pakistan billions of dollars. Is it time for us to divorce pakistan . No, its not time to divorce a nation on earth that has 100 Nuclear Weapons and is on the way to double that at some point. A nation that has serious threats from terror groups within its nation. Its a nation thats not like others, it doesnt have a civilian leadership. You have the isi there, the organization that is probably the most powerful of the three branches. You have the military and the civilian government. This is a nation, which if it falls apart, if it becomes a failed state there are Nuclear Weapons there. Have you terrorists there who can grab their hands out of those Nuclear Weapons. This is an important part of the world for us. Pakistan is technically an ally and theyre not acting like an ally right now. We have some work to do. I dont blame the administration for the fact that the relationship with pakistan is strained. We had to go into pakistan, we had to go in there to get osama bin ladin, that was the right thing to do. That upset them, there was a great deal of anger before that. Were going to have to work with the people in pakistan to try to help them move to a more responsible course than the one theyre on. Its important for them. Its important for the Nuclear Weapons, for the success of afghanistan. Inside pakistan, you have a large group that are taliban, theyre going to come rushing back into afghanistan when we go. Its important for us to recognize that we cant just walk away from pakistan. But we do need to make sure that as we send support for them, that this is tied to them making progress on matters that would lead them to becoming a civil society. Let me ask you, governor, we know president obamas position on this one. What is your position on the use of drones . Well, i believe we should use any and all means necessary to take out people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world. Its widely reported that drones are being used in drone strikes. I support that earn tirely, and feel the president was right to up the usage of that technology and believe we should continue to use it, to continue to go after the people who represent a threat to this nation and our friends. Let me also note that as i said earlier, were going to have to do more than going after leaders and killing bad guys, as important as that is, were going to have to have a far more effective and comprehensive strategy to help move the world away from terror and islamic extremism. We havent done that yet. We talk a lot about these things. You look at the record of the last four years and say, is iran closer to a bomb . Yes. Is the middle east in tumult . Yes. Is al qaeda on the run, on its heels . No. Are israel and the palestinians he closer to reaching a Peace Agreement . No, they havent had talks in two years. We have not seen the progress we need to have, and im convinced with strong leadership and an effort to build a strategy based upon helping these nations reject extremism, we can see the kind of peace and prosperity the world demands. Keep in mind our strategy wasnt just going after bin ladin. We created partnerships to go after extremism in somalia, yemen, pakistan. And weve engaged these governments in the kind of reforms that are going to make a difference in peoples lives day to day, to make sure their governments arent corrupt. To make sure theyre treating women with the kind of respect and dignity that every nation that succeeds has shown. And to make sure that theyve got a free market system that works. So across the board, we are engaging them in building capacity in these countries and we have stood on the side of democracy. One thing i think americans should be proud of, when tune eeshians began to protest, this nati nation, me, my administration, stood with them earlier than just about any country. In egypt we stood on the side of democracy. In libya we stood on the side of the people. As a consequence, theres no doubt that attitudes about americans have changed. Theres always going to be elements in these countries to potentially threaten the United States. We want to shrink those groups and networks and we can do that, were also growing to have to maintain vigilance when it comes to trifrptd activities. The truth is, al qaeda is much weaker than it was when i came into office. They dont have the same capacities to attack the u. S. Homeland and our allies as we did four years ago. Lets go to the next segment, because its a very important one. It is the rise of china and future challenges for america. I want to begin this by asking both of you and mr. President , you go first this time. What do you believe is the greatest future threat to the National Security of this country . Well, i think it will continue to be terrorist networks, we had to remain vij lantz as i just said. With respect to china, chinas an adversary and also a potential partner in the International Community if its following the rules. So my attitude coming into office was that we are going to insist that china plays by the same rulings as everybody else. I know americans had seen jobs being shipped overseas businesses and workers not getting a level Playing Field when it came to trade. Thats the reason why i set up a trade task force to go after cheaters when it came to international trade. Thats why we brought more sanctions on china. We won almost every case that we filed thats been decided. Just recently, Steel Workers in ohio, throughout the midwest, and pennsylvania. Are in a position to sell steel to china because we had that case. They were flooding us with cheap chinese fires and we put a stop to it, as a consequence saved jobs. Throughout america. I have to say that governor romney criticized me for being too tough in that tire case. Said this wouldnt be good for American Workers and it would be protectionist. I tell you, those workers dont feel that way. They feel as if they had finally an administration who was going to take this issue seriously. Over the long term in order for us to compete with china, weve also got to make sure that were taking care of business here at ho home. If we dont have the best Education System in the world, if we dont have the research that will allow us to create great businesses thats how we lose the competition. Unfortunately, governor romneys budget and his proposals would not allow us to make those investments. First of all, its not government that makes business successful. Its not government businesses that make businesses grow and higher people. The greatest threat the world faces is a nuclear iran. Lets talk about china. China has an interest thats very much like ours. In one respect and that is, they want a stable world this they dont want war, they dont want to see protectionism, they dont want to see the world break out into various chaos, they have to manufacture goods and put to work 20 Million People to work coming out of the farms every year. They want the economy to work and be free and open. We can be a partner with china. We dont have to be an adversary in anyway shape or form. We can work with them, collaborate with them, if theyre willing to be responsible. Now, they look at us and say, is it a good idea to be with america . How strong are we going to be . How strong is our economy. They look at the fact that we owe them a trillion dollars, and other people 16 trillion, including them. They look at our decision to cut back on our military capabilities, a trillion dollars. The secretary of defense called these trillion dollars of cuts to our military devastating. Its not my term, the secretary of defense called them devastating. They look at americas commitments around the world and see whats happening, they say, is america going to be strong . The answer is, yes, if im president the country will be very strong. Well also make sure we have trade relations with china that work for us. Ive watched year in and year out as companies have shut down and people have lost their jobs because china has not played by the same rules. In part by holding down the value of their currency, it holds down the value of their goods and we lose jobs. Thats got to end. Theyre making some progress, they need to make more. On day one, i will label them a currency man i u lar, which allows us too apply tariffs where theyre taking jobs. Hacking into our computers, counterfeiting our goods. They have to understand we want to trade with them. We want a world thats stable. We like free enterprise, but you have to play by the rules. Governor, let me just ask you. If you declare them a currency manipulator on day one, some people say youre just going to start a trade war with china on day one. Is that isnt there a risk they sell us this much stuff every year, and we sell them this much stuff every year. Its pretty clear who doesnt want a trade one. We have an enormous trade imbalance with china, its worse this year than last year, and worse last year than the year before. We have to understand that we cant just surrender and lose jobs year in and year out, we have to say to our friends in china, look, you guys are playing aggressively, we understand it, but this cant keep on going, you cant keep on holding down the value of your currency, stealing our intellectual property. Counterfeiting our products, selling them around the world, even into the utsd. I was with one company that makes valves in process industries. They said, look, we were having some valves coming in that were broken and we had to repair them under warranty, we looked them up, they had our serial number on them, we noticed there was more than one with that same serial number. There were counterfeit products being made overseas with the same number as the u. S. Company. This cant go on. I want a great relationship with chi china. China can be our partner, but that doesnt mean they can just roll all over us and steal our jobs on an unfair basis. Governor romney is right. You are familiar with jobs being shipped overseas, because you invested in companies that shipped jobs overseas. And thats your right. I mean, thats how our free market works. But ive made a different bet on American Workers. If we had taken your advice, governor romney about our Auto Industry, wed be buying cars from china instead of selling cars to china. If we take your advice with regard to how we change our tax code so companies with profits overseas dont pay u. S. Taxes, thats estimated to create 800,000 jobs, the problem is they wont be here, theyll be in places like china. And if were not making investments in education and basic research, which is not something the private sector is doing at a sufficient pace right now and has never done. We will lose the lead in things Like Clean Energy technology. Now, with respect to what weve done with china already, u. S. Exports have doubled since i came into office to china. And the currencies are at their most advantageous point for u. S. Exporters since 1993. We absolutely have to make more progress, thats why were going to keep on pressing. And when it comes to our military and chinese security. Part of the reason we were able to pivot to the Asia Pacific Region after having ended the war in iraq, and transitioning out of afghanistan is precisely because this is going to be a massive growth area in the future. And we believe china can be a partner, were also sending a clear signal that america is a pacific power, that were going to have a presence there. We are working with countries in the region to make sure, for example, that ships can pass through, that commerce continues, and were organizing trade relations with countries other than china, so that china starts feeling more pressure about meeting basic international standards. Thats the kind of leadership weve shown in the region, thats the kind of leadership well continue to show. I want to take one of those points, again, attacking me is not talking about an agenda for getting more trade and opening up more jobs for this country. But the president mentioned the Auto Industry and somehow i would be in favor of jobs being elsewhere, nothing could be further from the truth. Im a son of detroit, i was born in detroit. My dad was head of a car company. I like american cars, i would do nothing to hurt the u. S. Auto industry. My plan to get the industry on its feet when it was in real trouble was not to start writing checks, it was president bush that wrote the first checks. I disagreed with that. I said, these Companies Need to go through a managed bankruptcy, in that process they can get government help and guaranteed. They need to go through bankruptcy to governor romney that is not what you said. You can take a look at the op ed. You did not say you would provide government help. I said we would provide guarantees, that is what was able to allow these companies to go through bankruptcy, under no circumstances would i do anything other than to help this industry get on its feet. The idea thats been suggested that i would liquidate the industry, of course not. Of course not. Lets check the record. Thats the height of silliness. I never said i would want to the people of detroit dont forget. Thats why i have the kind of commitment to make sure that our industries in this country can compete and be successful. We in this country can compete successfully with anyone in the world, and were going to. Were going to have to have a president , however, that doesnt think that somehow the government investing in Car Companies like tesla and fiskar making battery operated cars, this is not research, this is the government investing in companies, investing in solyndra. This is a company, this isnt basic research. I want to invest in research. Research is great. Providing funding to universities and think tanks. But investing in companies . Absolutely not. Governor thats the wrong way to go. Thats im still speaking. I want to make sure we make america more competitive, and we do those things that make america the most attractive place in the world for entrepreneurs, innovators, businesses to grow. Your investing in companies doesnt do that, it makes it less likely for them to come here, because the private sector is not going to invest in a Solar Company if youre investing in someone els look, i think anybody out there can check the record. Governor romney, you keep on trying to air brush history. You were very clear that you would not provide government assistance to the u. S. Auto Companies Even if they went through bankruptcy. You said they could get it in the private marketplace. That wasnt true. They would have gone through youre wrong, mr. President. No, i am not wrong. People can look it up, youre right. People will look it up. More importantly, it is true that in order for us to be competitive, were going to have to make some smart choices right now. Cutting our education budget, thats not a smart choice, that will not help us compete with china. Cutting our investments in research and technology, thats not a smart choice. That will not help us compete with china. Bringing down our deficit by adding 7 trillion of tax cuts and military spending that our militarys not asking for, before we get to the debt that we currently have, that is not going to make us more competitive. Those are the kinds of choices American People face right now. Shipping jobs overseas, instead of companies that are investing here in the United States. That will not make us more competitive. The one thing im absolutely clear about, is that after a decade in which we saw adrift, jobs being shipped overseas, nobody championing American Workers and businesses, weve now begun to make some Real Progress, we cant go back to the same policies that got us into such difficult in the first place. Thats why we had to move forward and not go back. I couldnt agree more about goingforward. But i dont want to go back to the policies of the last four years. 23 million Americans Still struggling to find a good job. When you came into office, 32 Million People on food stamps, today, 47 Million People on food stamps, when you came to office, just over 10 trillion in debt, now, 16 trillion in debt, it hasnt worked. You said by now wed be at 5. 4 unemployment, were 9 million jobs short of that. Ive met some of those people. I met them in appleton, wisconsin, i met a young woman in philadelphia whos coming out of college, cant find work. Ive been ann was with someone just the other day that was just weeping about not being able to get work. Its just a tragedy in a nation so prosperous as ours, that the last four years have been so hard. Thats why its so critical, that we make america once again the most attractive place in the world to start businesses, to build jobs to grow the economy. And thats not going to happen. By just hiring teachers. I love to i love teachers, im happy to have states and communities that want to hire teachers do that. I dont like to have the federal government start pushing its weight deeper and deeper into the schools. Let the states and localities do that. The federal government didnt hire our teachers. I want to get our private sector growing and i know how to do it. I think we all love teachers. Thank you so much for a vigorous debate, we have come to the end. It is time for closing statements, i believe youre first, mr. President. Thank you very much, bob, governor romney and to Lynn University. Youve now heard three debates, months of campaigning and way too many tv commercials. And now youve got a choice. Over the last four years weve made Real Progress digging our way out of policies that gave us