having it? >> it's not that simple. they have to come up with some compromise, some sort of plan that can pass the senate and go back to the house of representatives and pass there something that the president could sign that would allow the united states to raise the debt ceiling and avert some sort of financial disaster come tuesday. it's not simple at all, so they need to work together. the mainstream, main leadership, democrats and republicans, they need to find a way to come up with the bare minimum to get over this hump. it's a huge, huge obstacle, standing in the way of an mechanic recovery, if you will. so the stakes really are enormous. >> what we're waiting for here is senate majority leader harry reid, about to explain why the senate has rejected john boeh r boehner's bill. let's go to jessica yellin while we wait. cnn's chief white house correspondent. it's been a day of frantic arm twisting, but we've ended up really absolutely nowhere, haven't we? >> that's right. in a sense, it's a little bit of progress, because they had to get past this vote in order to get on to the senate where there is a belief here in the white house at least that a compromise can be struck between harry reid, the democrat who runs the senate and mitch mcconnell, republican minority leader and a hope that the two can forge an economy that can get through the senate and in the parlance of washington, be, "jammed" on the house at the very last minute. in essence, because the clock is ticking and there is a since of leadership, both sides will come together and decide we have to get it done to avoid default at the last minute. who knows if that would actually happen. that would be the best case scenario. >> we have senator harry reid and we can go straight to what he has to say. >> senator murray asked to be excused because of a family situation. all good. her husband is here. tonight a bipartisan majority in the senate rejected boehner's short-term plan. clearly we're seeing something we've seen a lot here in the senate. but this time the country's attention is focused on it. a filibuster. a filibuster to prevent us from moving forward on this legislation. the proposal i put forward is a compromise. we changed it even more today. we would have changed it even more, but as i indicated on the floor, we had no one to negotiate with. the republican leader said he wouldn't negotiate with me. i don't know whose that is. not mine. >> your pizza's ready. >> it really is a worst possible time to be conducting a filibuster. they are forcing to us wait until tomorrow morning at -- let's see. today is still friday. until sunday morning at 1:00 a.m. to have this vote. our economy hangs on the balance. and for the first time in the history of our country, unless there is a compromise, or they accept my bill, we're headed for economic disaster. it's time for the republicans to step forward. there's been some movement today. we've -- as indicated on the floor, i was supposed to have a meeting in my office this afternoon with some republicans. that fell through. but we told that as they walked into a conference, three republican senators are interested in a compromise. we hear a lot of happy talk, but they need to step forward. republicans are blocking their ability to compromise. they are refusing to negotiate with us, and all they do is talk and is isn't enough to get it done. the house will hold an up-or-down vote we're told on my proposal. we should be allowed to do the same. that's all we're asking. time for us to be adults. that's what the american people wants. time to come together in a compromise. that's what the american people want, and that's what we need to do. senator durbin. >> i'm sure you recall the speech that was given to the american people on monday night by speaker boehner. he talked about his bipartisan bill. and he talked about the fact that he was going to pass it in the house of representatives. we waited for that on tuesday, again on wednesday, then on thursday, and finally today, passed it, but it wasn't bipartisan. all republican votes. not a single democratic vote, and a scant majority. 218 out of 435-member house. when it came to the united states senate, it was dead on arrival, on a bipartisan basis. a bipartisan majority of senators, 59, voted to table the boehner proposal. and now we have a chance to reopen this conversation. and i can tell you, there is a growing sentiment among senators on both sides of the aisle to sit down and reach a reasonable compromise and to save our economy from the disaster that awaits us if we fail to extend this debt ceiling. what these senators on the republican side are waiting for is a permission slip from senator mcconnell. he told them to hold back until boehner had his chance. hold back until the boehner bill came to the floor. that's all history now. the american people want us to move forward. they want us to come up with a bipartisan approach that doesn't have us relive this scene that we've seen for the past week over and over and over and over again, like the old groundhog day movie. we want to get this done in a way so we can say the economy is going to move forward with a certainty that we'll have a debt ceiling extension and we are not going to jeopardize it with the problem of self-imposed political problems and wounds that can be avoided. it's a shame. we waited all day, this morning, senator reid went up to senator mcconnell on floort and said let's talk. let's work this out. nothing, nothing all day long. not all day long. and later at the end of the day, a call from senator mcconnell who said i'm not going to negotiate with up that's unfortunate. the american people deserve better. and let me say one last thing. if senator mcconnell would give us the same vote standard in the senate that was given to speaker boehner in the house, we could pass senator reid's proposal. a proposal which includes major elements suggested by senator mcconnell. but, no, they insist on a filibuster. he said 60 votes have become routine. routine because filibusters have become routine on the republican side of the aisle. it isn't what's necessary to enact this law so critical to the future of america. we'll fight this filibuster and i hope in the end, some republicans will cross over and join us and break the stalemate and come up with a bipartisan agreement. >> thank you. you know, this morning at 10:00 a.m., on the floor of the senate, leader reid asked senator mcconnell to come negotiate. the door was open all day, nobody knocked. nobody walked in. and some said, well, speaker mcconnell wanted to wait until the house disposed boehner. but after the boehner amendment was defeated, in a telephone conversation with leader reid, i was sitting there, senator mcconnell still refused to negotiate. we will not solve this problem by standing there and folding our arms and saying, i am not talking to anybody. and the nation's future is at risk. republican senators, i've talked to ten today. they want to come to an agreement. but until senator mcconnell gives them the green light, nothing is going to happen. and they get the vibes, and perhaps the direct word, i don't know, from the republican leader, don't do anything. we all know in the senate we can't pass anything without a bipartisan agreement. we all know the senate is the only way out of this mess. you've seen the huge difficulties in the house, their inability to even tie their own shoes, and so it's up to the senate. and that means it's up to senator mcconnell. to either negotiate himself or give permission to others to negotiate so that we can finally come to a bipartisan agreement. the only game in town is the modified reid bill. it's a bill that has elements proposed by republicans, including senator mcconnell. a bill that has elements proposed by democrats, but it meets the strictures that both parties have laid out, on our side, that it must extend the debt ceiling beyond 2012, no short-term extension, it too much roils the market. on their side, as many cuts as increases in the debt ceiling. if they don't like it, even if it seems to be a prescription drawn from their needs, what do they want as an alternative? they are very good at saying no. they are not very good at laying out a plan that can actually pass. and instead what do they do? they just filibuster. they say you can't proceed to a bill and vote on it. they say they are going to force us to delay and delay and delay until we get up to the deadline. the country's in crisis. this is not a time for politics as usual. i think we have shown that we are willing to give significantly in their direction. we're still waiting for speaker mcconnell, leader boehner, sorry. we're still waiting for leader mcconnell and speaker boehner to move a little bit in our direction. >> we'll take a few questions. not many tonight. we're all tired and had a long night and a longer tonight tomorrow. >> you had his bill, his own bill to your bill? because cuts, he was willing to have his own bill with no cuts guaranteed. i'm wondering, if, you know -- one thing you didn't do, you didn't add any triggers. a lot of talk about real triggers, having real significant weight that would force the deficit reduction committee to pursue real cuts. why didn't you do -- >> we have a closet full of triggers that people have suggested, literally. dozens of them. but even though they are good ideas, earlier this week, a few days ago, i was sitting talking to jack liu, office management budget and rob nabors, who we all know is such a good person. we talked for an hour and a half about good triggers. we are negotiating with ourselves. we can't get republicans to agree to any trigger that involves revenue. we cannot, the american people know this, because they agree with us. we're not going to have cuts to more programs, more programs and more programs without some revenue. it is -- it is -- that is a line that we've drawn in the sand and we will stick with it. i spoke to leader pelosi, she agrees with me 100%. >> so the house has passed two plans now, and what's -- senator schumer says this is the only game in town now. what if this doesn't get through the senate? >> i think senator schumer laid that out pretty clearly. the plan is to work off our bill. we have a message from the house. it's easy to -- if there's an agreement it comes up, it's easy to amend that, and send it back to the house. vote over there. to think with a straight face that they sent us something that the american people would accept. the ryan budget, cap and cut, whatever that is, and then this thing? that's -- that's not legislation. that is a -- that is an extrava ganza over there that made them look very foolish. >> seven now wondering friday night, going into the weekend, what is the endgame? how is this going to end up? i know you're calling for leader mcconnell to come to the table and negotiate, but what is the way forward from here? >> it's up to the republicans. right now, we have a fine proposal. extends the debt ceiling until march of 2013. it reduces the debt by 2$2.4 trillion. it's a fine piece of legislation. sets up the joint committee to make further cuts. it would be something that we believe and senator mcconnell will acknowledge this very strongly, as does leader pelosi, we could get something out of this. we're waiting for them to do something, anything, move toward us. if that fails, they should go for our bill. and that is things that they already voted on, things they already agreed to. last question. >> mr. reid, you reduced your debt ceiling increase to 2.4 and increased savings from 2.2 to 2.4 trillion. but it doesn't lay out how you do it. and you mentioned in back here, you used the january baseline. are all of the increased savings due to -- >> cbo has come up with those numbers and i told you before, we laid out all the numbers, you can dissect them, look at them. but this is what cbo has recommended, and we have followed their advice. thank you. >> so that was harry reid explaining why the senate has rejected john boehner's bill, which went through the house. and now straight back to wolf blitzer. a couple of things struck me there from what democratic senator was saying. one was it's not politics as usual, and the other was, it's time to behave like adults. which seemed pretty ironic, which is it's exactly politics as usual and none of them are much behaving like adults. and they don't have a lot of time, piers, to get this done. it has to be done by tuesday and they'll stretch it out until the bitter end, saturday, sunday, asian markets will again open sunday night east coast time in the united states. monday in asia already, the u.s. markets will reopen monday morning, so this clock is ticking, and as you know, for six straight days the markets in the united states, wall street has gone down. the worst week in more than a year i hear in the united states. that could be the tip of the iceberg if they don't get something resolved. i suspect that as the clock keeps on ticking, tomorrow and sunday, harry reid, mitch mcconnell, two leaders of the senate, they will forge some sort of compromise, eventually when all is said and done, although it will be tough going until then send it back to the house, i suspect they will send it back to the house and a coalition of a lot of democrats and some moderate republicans, probably not a majority of the republicans. if it comes up for a vote, they'll pass it, and this crisis will be averted. but having said that, piers, there is no guarantee that will happen. there are so many obstacles standing in the way, and more the rhetoric heats up and we've heard some heated relt rick right there. the more it heats up, the less likely a deal will be struck. it will be tough going. we'll be working all weekend. i suspect the cots will be brought out of some warehouse, staffers on the hill will be keeping all nighters getting this thing moving. it's going to be tough. >> jessica yellin, let me turn to you. it is to most american people watching this, they are saying what the hell are you playing at? are you playing with our future, with our finances, the nation's economy. we are now just hours, a few days, hours away, from a potentially katcatastrophic deft and we're hearing the detail from some of the press conference just then, the senior people aren't even talking to each other and i heard a report earlier and maybe you can confirm this that speaker boehner and the president having actually exchanged a single word in five days? >> that's right. nor has the president spoken to minority leader mitch mcconnell, although mcconnell did speak with vice president biden and while that drama is playing out on capitol hill, over in the treasury department, they are making decisions about which checks will be sent wednesday and which won't. does grandma sdget her social security check or does the military family get their check if we go into default. these are real decisions while political games are being played out. not games, call it what you want. principles to some people. but it's hard for regular americans to understand. and there is this lack of negotiation going on here. i can confirm that today there is still no progress toward a compromi compromise. whatever hour it is east coast time and no further along toward a deal than they were this morning, piers. >> that's quite extraordinary. i'm going to turn to jason chafitz, one of the 22 republicans who voted no to the boehner bill. he joins me now. let me ask you directly, do you really have your country's interest at heart? you are rejecting anything to do with a bill by your own guy, and even that bill has been rejected by democrats. you are so way out of step with public opinion, aren't you? >> well, it's nice no chat with you, piers. i would hope our first conversation would be a little more pleasant. of course i put my country first. >> let me -- let me respond to that the reason i'm animated about this, is because i think the american public are absolutely sick and tired of this situation, and every minute goes by with political posturing, the american economy is getting worse and worse and by the time you guys all stop squabbling it might be too late anyway. >> i think the fact that i actually voted against my speaker's bill demonstrates i'm more committed to my principles and my country than i am about going along to get along. i was the primary sponsor of cut, cap, and balance. a bill that passed with overwhelming republican support and five democrats. that bill passed with amazing numbers. it goes over to the senate and it's so frustrating. i hope if you look at it objectively, without partisan classes on, for the senate to table it, without a discussion, without a debate, is offensive to the american people. we are about to be in a crisis. they had this bill last year -- last week, and they should have at least debated it. it doesn't even get debated, don't you think, piers, that's a little unreasonable? >> think what they think is unreasonable, not a question of being partisan. it's a question of simple reality, when the democrats have rejected a bill by speaker boehner that went through the house, but there are still 22 of you on the republican side that wouldn't even go along with that one, they are saying, what are you thinking about you? what are yis the matter with yo? no taxation. how do you expect this country's economy to recover? >> well, what you do, look at house republicans, and not once, bus twice, we have passed bills that raised the debt ceiling. the senate hasn't done anything. that's offensive. today the president was talking about cafe standards, so the house republicans have a very good case, the best case. the numbers and statistics behind us say we've been working, look at cut, cap and balance. had five democrats, overwhelming support of republicans. why not debate the discussion of that bill? that's fair. that's not unreasonable. >> as we saw from senator reid earlier, he was mocking you earlier, couldn't even remember the name of it. >> right there, piers. he doesn't even know the name of the bill that we passed in the house of representatives that would solve this crisis? that ought to be a flashing red light that we might need personnel changes over in the senate. that's an embarrassment. >> either that, or you need to have a republican party that at least has a united voice, because at the moment. >> we were very united. >> it's clearly making -- >> we were very united. >> you're not inviu united. >> yes, we are. i'm willing to work with people on a very bipartisan basis. i want to do what's right for the country. i have a history of that. harry reid's bill coming up, which will only cut $3 billion in the first year, that's very tough for a guy like me to vote when we have this huge massive debt and deficit problem in the country. that's going to be difficult. i love having this discussion, but how come the senate could not take cut, cap and balance, and even debate it? not even two minutes. they voted to table it and he can't even pronounce the name of the bill, doesn't know the name of the bill and you wonder why the public is fed up, probably on both sides of the aisle, and i can look you in the eye and say we're doing our job, willing to compromise. willing to give the president exactly what he wanted. $2.4 trillion in debt ceiling increase. you know how difficult is it for a guy like that for me to do that? we're bending over backward here to solve that this problem. >> i think what the american public is saying no you bending over backward but being deliberately obstructtive. >> no plan from the president sent to us and nothing to the senate presented to us. i haven't rejected anything, other than speaker boehner's bill. i have not rejected something from the democrats. they haven't even presented us something. >> congressman, thank you very much. >> thanks, pooers s pooersz pie. now, democratic debbie wasserman schultz. i think you just heard the conversation i had. one of the problems, no matter what side of the argument, is that the republican party is split between the likes of mr. chaffetz who are completely irresolute to raising the debt ceiling and the others in speaker boehner's corner who can't get their bill through the senate. where are we with this? >> well there, is clearly, piers, an internal battle going on within the republican party right now. have you a group of what i would said are extremist tea party republicans who basically have a strangleholdory t orver the repn party. the tail seems to be wagging the dog. mr. chaffetz, a nice person who i had lovely conversations with on the house floor, really is clearly one of the obstructists. he said they've bent over backward? the problem here is he actually believes that his version of compromise is just the vote to raise the debt ceiling. that's -- at a minimum what we should be doing. that's not a component of compromise. a component of compromise that the american people clearly want us to do is to pass a bill that isn't so skewed on one side, that doesn't include things like taking the safety net out from under our senior citizens, increasing the costs of medicare which is what cut, cap and balance does. it had already been rejected once by the senate. >> let's forget. >> they passed it again. i mean, what is -- >> let's forget that for a moment. that's clearly an issue for the republican party to sort out amongst each other. no single democrat voted for the boehner bill. so where is the compromise from your side? i mean, again, i come back to the fact that the american public are sick and tired of this. your president talks of compromise. where is that compromise? >> okay. piers, the bill that speaker boehner put out on the floor today increased costs of medicare, was trying to force an amendment to pass. an amendment to the constitution to pass before a second fight would be had over increasing the debt ceiling in another couple of months. so what the republicans proposed in this boehner bill today was to actually have this fight again in a couple of months and jeopardize our economy once again. what democrats want to do is sit down with republicans. we're not that far apart on the cuts. we need to make sure we lift the boot off the neck of the economy. we sit down together, figure out how we can raise the debt ceiling and not jeopardize our economy, and make sure that we pass some kind of a balanced plan that doesn't pile so much pain on the middle class and working families that they break under it. piers, i've had senior citizens calling my office today, crying. who are living hand to mouth on social security and are worried that they are not going to be able to survive if their social security payments aren't made. that is what this battle that is going on between the right and the extreme right in the republican party is causing. reasonable people need to sit down to the table. we as democrats have been at the compromise table for a long time and we have a cold chair across from us. time for the republicans to come and warm it up and lift this risk that is -- that is on the economy now off so we can move on and focus on creating jobs and continuing to get this economy turned around. that's the bottom line, what the american people want. >> congresswoman, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up, rudy giuliani on today's vote and what happens next. earlier today, the president was urging people to tweet their representatives in congress. we'll show you some of those tweets tonight. every day, all around the world, energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy developement comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing decades of cleaner burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self contained well systems and using state of the art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment we are america's natural gas. freshman house republican alan west is one of those who voted yes for the boehner bill tonight and he joins me now. what's gone wrong today? has speaker boehner lost all his power? what's been happening? >> i don't think speaker boehner lost any of his power, and i'll commend the speaker going toe to toe with the president during this issue, especially earlier this week when he did a rebuttal speech after the president's speech, i believe monday night. he has trul stepped up to the plate. the speech tonight was a very strong speech and laid out his vision as far as the purpose of this bill and his way ahead. >> the american public are watching, thinking you guys wasted another whole day with posturing, political gains and in the end, nothing has happened. you ended up putting a bill in the house that was never going to get through the senate. everybody knew that. complete waste of time. meanwhile, the clock is ticking on the american economy, and every second that goes by, is more damage being done. who is taking responsibility for this? >> i'll tell you this, piers. you need to look over at the senate, you're talking about a group of individuals that under the leadership of harry reid have not passed a budget which is a constitutional responsibility, in 820 days. we have sent them over now two very viable and sensible plans to include the boehner plan, not 100% plan i would have liked to have seen. i made a compromise, and one to see us take care of our responsibilities. for me, about a 70%, 75% solution. the people we really should be looking at are the democrats. we continue to present viable alternatives and proposals. >> recent polls show 64% of the public are in favor of raising taxation to get us out of the incredible mess. are you? >> well, it's kind of interesting that you say 64% are willing to raise taxes when we know that 47% of wage earning households in america don't pay taxes. i would challenge you on the number. and i'd had several telephone town hall meetings, i've been here in washington, d.c. and never have we had less than 72% not in favor of their taxes being raised. let's not talk about taxes being raised when we see a traj i'll recovery. 1.3% gdp growth. we should be talking about how do we broaden our tax base as a means of raising tax revenues. then you can eliminate a lot of loopholes in subsidies, the corporate business tax rate is 34%, second highest in the world. >> finally, allen west, should we go to default here, an unprecedented catastrophe in america, who has to resign? >> well, i'm not looking for anyone to resign and having been a military officer, i don't look at failure. i don't think we're going to default and that's why i continue to support proposals that will preclude us from defaulting on our debt obligations and make sure we don't see interest rates increase. >> yeah, but let me put it another way. >> the on succeus is squarely o senate democrats. >> and they say the opposite. >> i haven't seen a piece of paper from them yet. >> everyone is listening to the same old political chatter and meanwhile, the damage to america's economy and the global economy is getting worse by the second. i don't think any of you guys seem to realize this. >> i think i do realize that, and i've been here seven months and i'm doing everything humanly possible to turn around a spending disease 30 years in the making. i wish i could wave a magic wand and make it all go away. i'm trying to do my best within the system of the united states federal government. >> allen west, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> and former and perhaps future presidential candidate rudy giuliani, a national default could damage republicans for years to come. an interesting perspective there. one of the big i guess thought processes on both sides is who loses most. if america goes to default. obviously, number one, the american people. but would it be a massive blow to the democrats or more of a blow to republicans? >> i think it will be a blow to both, probably roughly equal, depending on how you look at it. and i believe it would have to lay mostly at the feet of the president. chief executive of the united states. if you can't get a budget together and deal with debt as chief executive of the country, then you're a pretty weak leader. the reality is -- you have to put this in context. the problem isn't the crisis we're going through right now. the problem is the totally unprecede unprecedented, out of control spending we're doing. the president of the united states has come to congress asking them to increase the debt ceiling more than any president has ever asked, ever. i mean this is way beyond any president has ever asked. he wonders, why do they want to reduce spending? because he's asking for a bigger increase in debt than any president ever asked. >> but at the same time -- >> so this -- >> the real problem for our economy, which existed long before this crisis is we're spending incredibly, irresponsibly more money than we have and we have to put a stop to it, and that's why you see these people fighting the way they are fighting. they have different views of it. one side believes you should reduce spending. the other side believes you should increase taxes. and they truly believe it. and you have been calling it political posturing. i listen to both sides and i know them really well. these people really believe what they are saying. and they probably would be helped if they change their language a little. it wasn't particularly helpful for harry reid to say during his press conference that the only -- the only game in town was his bill. or for chuck shumer to reiterate the same thing. that doesn't lead to negotiations, they talk about -- >> but this is the problem, isn't it? this is the problem, isn't it? the american people i think just deserve better than they are getting right now. what they are seeing is the same old political posturing and games. >> of course they are. >> and i totally accept some of them may be principled. but many are behaving like politicians in the worst kind of caricature. and the real issue isn't the default coming, but the damage to the credit rating of america. >> absolutely. >> the damage to the global economy. countries all over the world watching, agasp, saying for god sake get a deal done. >> if they could let me put them in a room, i would settle it in a minute. >> how would do you that? >> if i had my way, cut, cap and balance would be law of the land, a balanced budget amendment, and we would cut the budget 1% or 2%. boehner isn't cutting spending, he's cutting the incredible increase in spending a little bit. here is what i would do because we're in a crisis. what i would do is say give the republicans the cuts they want and give the democrats the two years they want to get beyond the election, and then have some kind of trigger mechanism that means the cuts will be real, the reasons the republicans want to revisit the cuts in a year, they don't trust the president. they believe the president will not cut, because he's never done that and exaggerate rad the imp of this. they don't vus trust him. on the other hand, the democrats want to stretch this out beyond the election. you give the republicans the cuts, which boehner and reid agreed on actually a week ago and give democrats the two years they want and lets get the heck out of this and fight this out in the next election. >> final question, rudy. just a brief answer, please. are you aware of the rising sentiment around the world that this is looking fairly shameful for the american political process? >> look, we're a democracy. maybe the rest of the world should grow up and realize we're a democracy and we have people that have strongly different views. i disagree completely with the president of the united states, but i respect him. he believes in keynesian economics, in priming the pump, and i have a totally different view as do a lot of the republicans. we'll fight this out in election. what would really help, and this is where i fault the president. the chief executive is the one that has to be the adult in the room and bring everybody together. the president has to put a positi proposal on the table. i can't imagine not putting a proposal on the table when i was mayor of the new york city. i wouldn't wait for the city council to do it. that's absurd. i can't imagine reagan doing this, or clinton. >> rudy giuliani, as always, provocative. >> and they are going to settle it, believe me. settle it probably by tuesday, pretty much along the lines i just said. a cut, and an extension and a trigger. >> i hope you're right. i hope you're right, thanks a lot, rudy. >> bye-bye. the republican rank and file and the tea party. why john mccain calls them h hobbits and worse than foolish. new citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. ♪ let me make you smile ♪ let me do a few tricks ♪ some old and then some new tricks ♪ ♪ i'm very versatile ♪ so let me entertain you ♪ and we'll have a real good time ♪ [ male announcer ] with beats audio and flash, you can experience richer music and download movies straight to the new hp touchpad with webos. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the cc. and every volkswagen includes scheduled carefree maintenance. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the volkswagen cc sport for just $289 a month. ♪ visit vwdealer.com today. the debt battle has been bruising, and it's not over yet. who will be the casualties? that's the question that carly fee fiorina and nira santandin will answer. let's start with you, carly. a pretty rough day on capitol hill and not much has happened. we tick down to default. what happened? >> three things going on that make for high drama and a lot of frustration, as you describe on your program. i would argue this is politics unusual, and let me tell you what i mean by that. first, a genuine, fill so offic debate going on between people who have genuine differences and passionately held differences about how to grow the economy and what the proper role of government is. that discussion has gotten attached to a debt ceiling debate. and i think it got attached to that, what has in the past been very routine, because of the normal processes of government, appropriations and budgeting, which is where these discussions normally happen, haven't occurred. the democratic senate hasn't passed a budget in almost three years and the appropriations process has ground to a halt. and the third think i would just say is -- >> let me just interrupt through. let me interrupt you. >> yeah, sure. >> this is all nice and proper and decent, but the reality is america is headed to a catastrophic default and the blame lies with the republicans of eight years of allowing the economy to tank and the president making slightly worse. >> i think there is plenty of blame to go around. i would argue with statics just a bit. president obama and democrats have spent more in the last two years than has been spent in any two year period. i'm quite confident, still, as i have been virtually every night i have talked on cnn that there are enough men and women of good will on both sides of the aisle, this will get done. but i would say one final thing. i think the other thing we're seeing. we're seeing a real philosophical debate which will continue through this year and through the election. we're seeing a problem, because the normal budgeting process has ground to a halt. the other thing we're seeing is an experience gap. you have freshmen republicans who are having to learn in real time that sometimes you have to decide, wow, i've won a major victory here. i need to take my progress and move on, but you also have an experience gap from president obama, who has proven himself, in my opinion, to be capable of the leadership necessary to get this done. he's never put a plan on the table and you're hearing from a lot of democrats on the hill, that president obama can't get us out of this mess. lack of experience is a problem, for sure. >> let me go to nira and put that to her. today, i thought jack welch, the business tycoon, raised an interesting point. he said why does any form of balanced budget make democrats go crazy? every family gets into that position every day. he has a point, doesn't he? >> well, i think there are many republicans who oppose balanced budget and the one thing we should be aware, there is one bipartisan vote so far this week and that bipartisan vote is a rejection of the boehner plan by the senate who had republicans crossing lines senator kirk, senator graham, conservative senators as well, crossing lines with democrats to reflect thjec and incorporated an extreme form of balanced budget and a ridiculous idea. the idea we'd have a majority vote to pass a balanced budget amendment down the road when they couldn't even garner 2/3 for a balanced budget amendment now. so we've entered extreme, extreme gamesmanship. these votes are utterly meaningless and senate republicans are frustrated and you saw a number of senate republicans join with democrats to vote against the boehner bill. >> the most frustrated people are not the republicans, it's the general public. >> i agree with that 100%. >> i would say why doesn't the president -- at the moment, i would say he's not emerging as a particularly strong leader. no one is getting a strong hold on this. all of this talk of filibuster, it sounds preposterous, giving the tef stating impact of the default if this happens. why doesn't the president utilize real power? you can't do a deal, you're being intranc being intransient, i'm going it alone. >> i think the president should explore the 14th amendment. i think the american people think that he should explore options. it's incredible to the american people that we would face anything that hurts our economy at a time when so many millions of americans are struggling, so i think the president should explore the 14th amendment. i would say this one idea the president has put forward a plan. the president put forward a plan in his speech in april and a plan with speaker boehner they were on the cusp with. speaker boehner was unable to come to the table because is he beholden to the tea party. let's realize what happened this week. he an extreme far right proposal and then he to move to the right in order to get the votes for his bill. so obviously he needs to demonstrate he needs to actually put partisanship aside and come to the table and put guard a an forward a bill that he can rely on democratic votes for. >> thank you both very much. it took a lot of arm twisting to deliver the votes in the house tonight. another delivery was a lot easier. i'll talk to the guy who made it happen. 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[ male announcer ] the innovation, the engineering of mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. going straight to anderson cooper with a preview of "anderson cooper 360." is it just because i'm british that i find this so incomprehensible? >> i think most americans are finding it incomprehensible on one level or another. but it must be interesting for you from your perspective. we haven't seen this. >> i can't imagine this happening in britain. because if they tried this stunt on the british public they'd be drummed out of parliament. it seems there are two worlds here, the politicians down on this hill who are just squabbling as they normally do without any sense of the mounting outrage. >> yeah. and the -- i don't think anybody is going to come out of this looking very good. all these arguments who this benefits, the republicans or democrats. all of them come out looking pretty poor. we're going to continue the breaking news coverage you're been doing piers on 360 tonight. all the last-minute debt drama happening on capitol hill. democrats in the senate speak a short time ago, publicly calling for negotiations and compromise, political posturing in full effect as it has been. a full team in washington tonight. john king, gloria borger, jessica yellin working their sources. alley bell is here to talk money. the economic fallout already costing you money. also the raw politics of how a deal could get done. fascinating conversation with james carville and eric ericsson. fareed zakaria joining us talking about the tea party and polarization in the united states. all that and more tonight on 360, piers. remarkable evening. >> it certainly is. thanks, anderson let's try this. and end on a happy note here. because last night working into the wee small hours the pizza deliveries were coming fast and furious. we finally found a man who's actually doing well out of this farce in washington. he's jeff williams, papa john's franchise director the very store that delivered pizzas to speaker boehner's offers. >> jeff williams, you seem the only guy in america with a smile on his face right now. business booming, right? >> absolutely. business is doing just well. just well. we've been shipping tons and tons of pizzas up to the hill. one thing's for certain. congress may not exactly know how to go one way or the other on this bill, but frankly they know where to eat pizza. papa john's. better ingredients, better pizza company. >> well, i'm delighted they're having good pizza. let's be serious for a moment. what is your personal view as the official pizza supplier to these politicians who as they try this. and resolve this crisis? what do you think the answer is? >> well, you know, we're a pizza company. and frankly we don't know how to resolve this debt crisis. the one thing we focus on is just making a better pizza. and regardless if you are democrat or republican, the one thing that you can agree on is our new bipartisan pizza where we put equal toppings for both sides. >> you're a bipartisan operation, are you? >> yes,sir. absolutely. >> how many pizzas did you actually deliver last night? >> last night was a relatively good-sized order. 20 pizzas up to representative boehner. and enough to keep folks moving. but our founder and ceo john snyder has said if it takes more pizzas to get those folks moving on the hill we'll be more than happy to provide what's needed whether it's 50 pizzas or 100 pizzas. piers you're more than welcome to pass that message along to member the of the legislature and president obama as well. >> and what kind of pizza does speaker boehner like? is he on the spicy side of life? >> you know, that's a good question. they ordered a good variety last night so we really don't know what went to boehner himself. but we'd like to think that he's enjoying some of the top-quality ingredients we serve. so regardless of whether it's spicy or not, i'm sure he had a good time. >> and did they pay cash or credit? >> i believe it was credit. >> credit. so at least there was some credit left in the country. >> yes,sir, absolutely. big part of our business, actually. >> well, jeff, i think they're all thrilled for you you're doing well. the irony is not lost that capitol hill's pizza guy is doing a roaring business. thank you for joining me. >> my pleasure. i appreciate the fact you had us. >> and i'll have a spicy pep roan knee when you get an sec, please. and we'll be right back.
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