But first, heres my take. Something important has happened over the course of this crisis. Estimates of expected deaths have gone down by a lot. On march 31st, the white house estimated that even with social distancing policies in place, between 100,000 and 240,000 americans would die of covid19. Dr. Deborah birx, the white houses Coronavirus Response coordinator said that that was, quote, our real number. Dr. Anthony fauci, the nations top Infectious Disease expert, recently indicated he now believes it will be more like 60,000. The university of washington model, which has been cited by the white house, predicted on march 26th that assuming social distancing policies that stay in place until june 1st, u. S. Deaths by august would most likely be around 81,000. By april 10th, they had made many revisions to get to their current number, 61,500. Predictions for hospitalization rates have also proven to be way too high. On march 30th, the university of washington projected that california would need 4,800 beds on april 3rd. In fact, the state needed 2,200. The same model predicted that new york would need 58,000 beds on april 3rd. It used only 15,000. It made sense to take precautions, but that may have come at a cost, as there are concerns that patients with other conditions havent gotten the care they need. So, what is going on . Well, many experts believe that social distancing has worked even better than was predicted. But heres a theory, acknowledging we still dont know a lot about the virus. A group of stanford scholars believe that the basic reason estimates of deaths have had to be revised downwards is because without an understanding of how the virus spreads and without widespread testing from the start, we didnt realize how many mild or asymptomatic cases there would be. That means the denominator, those who have been infected, could be much larger than initial estimates, and therefore, the fatality rate for covid19 is much lower. In march, the w. H. O. Announced 3. 4 of people with the virus had died from it. That would be an astonishingly high fatality rate. Fauci suggested a week later that the rate was probably 1 , which would still be ten times as high as the flu. Since then, we have learned that many people, in some studies, 50 , in some studies as much as 75 to 80 dont have any symptoms. That means its possible most people infected with the virus are not getting counted. Stanfords john eunidis believes we have massively overestimated the fatality of covid19. He told me, when you have a model involving exponential growth, if you make a small mistake in the base numbers, you end up with a final number that could be off tenfold, 30fold, even 50fold. He points out that in some of the places with the best testing, the diamond princess cruise ship, the italian town, iceland, denmark the numbers who are actually infected when adjusted for the u. S. Population as a whole suggest a fatality rate that is actually similar to the seasonal flu. Based on limited testing data, he estimates that fewer than 40,000 u. S. Deaths will occur from covid19 this season. Now, that is still a tragedy and we should be glad that the work that weve done to abide by social distancing has done some good, though it has come at a price, of course. That said, no one knows the right answers. That is why we need the best data, and thats why we need to hear both from the mainstream voices and from dissenting voices. We have shut down the economy based on models, which is understandable because we worry about worstcase scenarios. But in science, models evolve with new and better data. President trump says we dont need mass testing, but reopening the economy will depend crucially on mass testing, or else, once controls are relaxed, we might see the infections soar again. South korea has been able to tackle the virus without major lockdowns in large part because it has handled testing superbly. The most urgent task for the federal government is to get widespread randomized testing in place, gather the best data in the world, and make policy based on that. Otherwise, we will continue to fly blind through this crisis. For more, go to cnn. Com fareed and read my Washington Post column this week. And lets get started. So, given what we know now, when should President Trump call for the American Economy to reopening . And crucially, should mayors and governors heed his call . Remember, it is really up to the mayors and governors to restart the economy. I have three great guests to discuss all this. Paul roamer is a Nobel Prize Winning economist and professor at nyu. Jennifer is an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins and Michael Mcclellan is a physician and economist who ran the food and drug administration, now a professor at duke. Dr. Nuzzo, can i start with you by just asking, what do you think we have learned so far about this virus that, you know, is interesting or different . Im struck by the fact that, for example, as i said, it does seem that the fatality rates are lower, though i understand thats still, you know, something we have to test for. It does seem to affect old people disproportionately. If you look at the number of hospitalizations, i think 90 of the people hospitalized are over 65. The median age for death is very high. Women seem to get it less than men. Women having that x chromosome seems to help. What are you learning . Yeah, i think one of the things that we learned about this virus, first of all, is that it is very quickly spreading and also that it causes more severe illness, we think, than influenza. There is still, i think, a fair debate about how many people who are ultimately infected, as you said in your opening we dont have great systems for identifying all of those people. Testing is still severely limited. So, if you cant count everybody who has it, its really hard to calculate how many of these people ultimately become severely ill and die. That said, i think were increasingly seeing studies that suggest, well, it may not be as silly as we maybe feared back at the beginning of january, its still likely more severe than seasonal influenza. And what do you make of these, for example, twice as many men die as women . Does that is that an important finding . Its an interesting finding, but its one that i think we have to look at more closely and try to understand why. It may not be about biology. It could be about behaviors and who works in what professions and whos more likely to be exposed. So, there may be some biological reasons for that, but at this point, we really dont know, and i dont think anybody should rest assured that perhaps they are at lower risk because of those findings. Dr. Mcclellan, i wonder what your reaction in general is, and i also want to ask you one specific part, which is the regional variation, which again, look, im just looking at this as a layperson. And texas, florida, and new york have about the same population, roughly speaking. And yet, new york has 30 times as many deaths and cases as texas does. Florida i think is about 400 deaths. New york is about 8,500, and florida didnt even adhere to the lockdown until very recently and was famously lax about it. Do you make anything of that . I do. And fareed, id like to start with the importance of this decline in cases compared to the models. Thats what flattening the curve should look like. And so, the steps that were taking are having a big effect. And as you said, maybe even larger than people had originally suggested. Remember, these models were based off not only limited data, as youve talked about, on cases and exposures and so forth, but also based on experiences in settings that are different than ours. This is a very heterogenous country with some densely populated urban areas that rely a lot on mass transit, other areas that are not only less concentrated, but also had exposure to more cases of the virus later. The virus clearly spread sooner in places like seattle and new york, compared to florida. And so, were seeing peaks happen at different times, and i wouldnt say florida is out of the woods yet. Theyre kind of at an earlier stage than other places are. So, there is still a lot we need to know to get on with reopening the country in a way that can give us confidence were not going to see these big kinds of outbreaks again that we do need that intensive testing. And on top of that, we need to better understand the virus, and thats going to come with more widespread testing. You know, the flip side of the virus, perhaps not having as high of a case fatality rate and id agree with dr. Nuzzo that this still causes very serious illness in a number of people, different than the flu. The flip side of that is, its much more contagious. There are significantly more cases out there than we counted. Were over 500,000 on the official count. If its ten times that, thats still a big number, but its also just a small part of the u. S. Population. So, only there are a lot of people out there who are still not immune, havent been exposed to the virus, and we need to be sure we are protecting them to have a confident and effective reopening. Professor roamer, let me ask you, what do you think about the economic measures taken so far, this 2. 3 trillion stimulus package, relief package, call it what you will . Can that not restart the American Economy, but fill the gap while the economy is at a paralysis . This is fareed, this is the classic example of getting the cart before the horse. These kinds of stimulus measures are designed to encourage spending that will put people back to work. But weve got lockdown that says people cant go back to work. So, its really the wrong thing to be focusing on right now. What we need to focus on is making it safe for people to go back to work. And this is where the right kind of information would be critical for making decisions. To keep this pandemic on a declining path, we have to keep a reasonable fraction of the people who are infected in isolation so they dont infect others. So, say 70 of those people infected in isolation. If we dont know whos infected, we have to put everybody into isolation. And thats why weve got this Economic Disaster on our hands. If you just did the tests, found out whos infected, you put 70 of the people who are infected in isolation, and there you go. Youre on a declining path. We wont see any more return of this virus. We dont need to maintain the lockdown. So weve just got to ramp up the testing, and then phase in this rule of test and isolate, and get rid of this rule where we isolate everybody. And paul romer, you have a paper explaining this in much greater detail. I want to discuss exactly just this when we come back is there a way to do a graduated opening, a phased opening, or is there a danger of health backlash . When we come back. Plap burke at farmers insurance, weve seen almost everything that can happen to your home. Or car. And we covered it all. Ah, memory lane sure has a lot of accidents. We know a thing or two about bundling and saving. So get a quote today. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum its got all my favorite shows turn oright there. Boom, i wish my Trading Platform worked like that. Well have you tried thinkorswim . This is totally customizable, so you focus only on what you want. Okay, its got screeners and watchlists. And you can even see how your predictions might affect the value of the stocks youre interested in. Now this is what im talking about. Yeah, itll free up more time for your. Uh, true crime shows . British baking competitions. Hm. Didnt peg you for a crumpet guy. Focus on what matters to you with thinkorswim. You may not be thinking about blood donation, but blood is needed to save the lives of people who are sick with a range of illnesses. Its easy and safe to give. If you are in good health, please donate. We need heroes now. Visit red cross blood dot org to schedule an appointment. And we are back with nobel prizewinning economist paul romer, epidemiologist Jennifer Nuzzo and former fda commissioner mark mcclellan. Paul, i want you to just explain your plan, that we reopen the economy now, that the lockdown end right away, and we ramp up testing so that you can start letting people who appear to be either immune or, you know explain the plan. Yeah. So, first, were not talking about raj shaani. Were not talking about ending lockdown right now. The goal here is to make it safe for people to work. The very first place to start is with the people who are already working under lockdown. Weve got Health Care Workers, police officers, transit workers. Theyre all working now, and theyre all exposed to risks that we could protect them from. If one of these workers is an asymptomatic carrier, that worker can infect a bunch of colleagues. And if we just tested those workers before they went on shift, we could make sure that if youre a police officer, youre not riding around for a day in a car with somebody whos spewing out droplets with virus in it. So, first thing to do is test and quarantine amongst the workers who are already on the job, these essential workers were relying on. Then as we get experience with that, we can start to ask, can we bring in more workers, get them back on the job safely . The core of paul romers proposal, it seems to me, mark mcclellan, is testing. And i have to confess, ive read his paper, i think it imagines 30 million tests. I mean, youre doing a lot of testing. It sounds like a lot its 30 million a day. 30 million a day, exactly. Thats a lot. Now, it sounds like a lot, but we just spent 2. 3 trillion. You know, why is it beyond the richest country in the world with the greatest scientific establishment in the world, if this is a true, you know, onceinacentury emergency, why cant we mobilize resources and ramp up testing so we can get people back to work . I completely agree with paul about ramping up testing. Hes exactly right that the last stimulus bill provided some needed relief for families, for hospitals or Frontline Health care workers, but in terms of getting the economy growing again, its like pushing on a string. Unless there is a clear reason why people feel like its safe to get back out and start doing more of their normal life, its not going to be all of their normal lives. Its going to be a different economy. But unless there is confidence that people can go back out and not risk infection as much, and unless businesses can be confident that they can make investments, were not going to see that kind of recovery. So, this next stimulus legislation really needs to focus on providing the support necessary to create the conditions for much more open, much more of a reopening of the whole economy. Testing is a key part of that, but i would encourage not just to focus on getting the number of tests up. Thats coming. Weve got better lab tests. Weve got pointofcare tests coming, hopefully homeadministerable tests. Fda has been doing a great job working with industry to get that up. But with that is the need to make sure these tests go first to where theyre most needed. That includes having Rapid Testing in every locality for people who may have symptoms to support them, figuring out whether theyve got covid19 or not, and so they can go back to work or stay home as needed. It means working closely with businesses, as paul just described. It also means working closely with Health Care Providers who are a mainstay in this country for connecting on the front lines with patients who have symptoms. All of this needs to be supported by state and local governments, just as states and localities have built up capacity now for this first phase of the pandemic, the next big phase is a whole infrastructure to support this kind of testing. So, that includes not just the tests themselves, but also the capacity to trace cases that are positive. This is what other countries are doing now. For the u. S. , such a big heterogenous country, its going to be a different approach, perhaps, in los angeles where theyve already set up a cares corps to start helping with this, from massachusetts, from more rural parts of the country. All of these features need to be included in the next round of legislation along with the tessing to make it work. And id just add one final thing for the federal government. Getting out ahead of what will be a potential shortage in supplies, not just of the tests, but of the swabs, of the other materials that are needed to go along with the test, too. Thats an area where the federal government can also provide a lot of support. Not just in backing up all of the capabilities that i just described. Jennifer, let me ask you. Youve talked about how its not just the ramping up of the testing. You need to ramp up the Health Care System, because i think one of the things people forget is that the whole point of flattening the curve is youre actually not reducing the number of people who will eventually get infected and sick until we get a cure or a vaccine. Youre spreading it out over a longer period of time so the Health Care System can handle it. And you worry that the Health Care System is pretty fragile right now. Yeah, i mean, thats the whole reason why were sitting at home is that we are living with a very fragile Health System, and it doesnt take much to tip it over the edge. So, i agree that we absolutely have to ramp up testing, for sure, because finding where all the cases are so that we know who needs to be isolated so that they dont transmit to others is utterly important. But the tests themselves are to inform that action. Theyre not an end in and of itself. But we also have to ask, where is the Health Care Capacity . Are the number of cases that we are seeing going to be able to be handled by health care . And right now we do not have good information about numbers of beds available, numbers of ventilators, Health Care Workers and whether or not theyre getting sick or if theyre able to still show up and do the lifesaving work that they do. One of the limitations that we are dealing with in terms of ramping up testing right now is not so much a lack of faces that can do the tests, but a lack of the little swabs that they take to obtain a specimen for testing and also personal protective equipment to protect the people who would have to obtain the specimen, and crucially, protect the Health Care Workers who have to do the work. So we need to look both at the numbers of people who are sick, make sure we are able to isolate those people so they dont transmit their infection. I agree, we actually have to be able to ramp up contact tracing, find all the people who may have been exposed so that we can monitor them and make sure that if they become a case, they dont pass it on to somebody else. But we also need to be able to monitor the health of the Health System to know what it is capable of dealing with and when it is potentially at the brink, and make sure we keep all of those numbers in balance. And unfortunately, we dont have systems right now to handle this. Were focused on the tests, which is great. I fully agree. But we also need to focus on all of the other supplies that we need. Theres just a lot more that we need to do. So, these conversations about when and how to open, they actually have to be informed about this. And just to the point about the stimulus, i just want to say that when were looking at a 2 trillion stimulus that has already been passed, and when were thinking that theres likely going to be another one, you know, at the height of preparedness spending by the government, it was about 7 billion in one year. At the time, that seemed like a lot of money, but now it seems like an incredible bargain. So, i really hope when were thinking about how we make investments in our future, we think about prevention and making sure this doesnt happen again. Fareed what a great point. I learned so much. Im sorry, i can i just talk a little bit . Okay, very quickly. Very quickly. You know, its true there are a lot of things to do. I want to argue, though, that testing is by far the most important thing i agree. I dont disagree. To expand right now. On that note of it were in final agreement. Im going to i really learned a lot. Thank you so much. Thank you. Later on the show, we have the british Prime Minister, gordon brown, who led the world out of the last crisis. But coming up now, the w. H. O. What does it mean to be a Good Neighbor . It means being there for each other. Thats why state farm is announcing the Good Neighbor Relief Program we know our customers are driving less, which means fewer accidents. So state farm is returning 2 billion dollars to auto policyholders for the period ending may 31st. And well continue making real time decisions to best serve you our customers. Because now, more than ever, being a Good Neighbor means everything. Like a Good Neighbor, state farm is there. 450degree oven, to box, to you, know that from our being a Good Neighbor means everything. Its our policy that your pizza is never touched once it comes out of the oven. And were taking extra steps, like no contact delivery, to ensure it. Theres my career,. My cause,. My choir. Im a work in progress. So much goes. Into who i am. 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Agency which has overseen global efforts and helped to fight diseases over its seven decades of existence, has become the latest foil for donald trump and his allies in the fight against coronavirus, but there have been some legitimate concerns raised about the agencys performance. With me is the World Health Organizations senior official, dr. Margaret harris. Dr. Harris, let me ask you, dr. Tedros, the head of the w. H. O. , has you know, went back at President Trump and said, lets not politicize the virus. But i guess, heres the question in late january, this was a point at which most of hubei was under lockdown. The chinese had essentially locked it down. The virus had spread to six other countries. The w. H. O. Did not declare that this was a pandemic, did not even declare it was a Global Health emergency until late. Dr. Tedros went to china, met with xi jinping, praised china for setting a new standard in handling it, praised it for its transparency. This is at a point at which many people were pointing out that china was punishing dissenters and whistleblowers who were pointing out that there was an epidemic. Isnt it fair to say that its dr. Tedros who introduced politics into this by essentially joining in the chinese coverup because china has been a very large and growing funder of the World Health Organization . Good morning, fareed, and thank you very much for having me on your program. I think we need to go back, actually, to the real timeline, and that is that we were notified on the 31st of december about 44 cases of a mysterious pneumonia going on. And we were notified by various sources, including an official notification by china. Now, that came late in the night, 31st of december. By first of january and remember, most people on the first of january are recovering from a pretty big night on 31st of december. We were all back at work. And Incident Management Team had been stood up. And because the alarm bells were already ringing through the halls of the w. H. O. No, we get notified about mysterious or concerning diseases, outbreaks around the world probably every day, but this one, no, we were aware was a very serious matter. And then very early in those days, we went and sent in people from our Country Office to look at what was going on. And by the fifth of january by the fourth of january, we notified the world via social media. And by the fifth, we put out a formal notification in whats called our disease outbreak news. Now, by the middle of january, there was not a lockdown in wuhan at that stage at all. At that stage, there was an increasing number of cases, but in fact, the first death from this virus only occurred in the middle of january. And it wasnt even clear that there was humantohuman transmission at that time, even though because we were so concerned about this outbreak, we put out guidance on the tenth of january saying, this must be we put out a big package of guidance, saying this must be treated as a very serious disease, we must take the precautions that were all taking now, the precautions against droplet spread, the social distancing. We said that at that time because it looked like sars it looked like mers. And the other important thing that happened was the genome was described by, again, the 12th of january. And that was put out, provided to us by china, and it was publicized to the world. So, the tests that we now talk so much about could actually be done. And from that testing, we could understand the size of the virus. But again, wuhan had not gone into lockdown at that point but on january 23rd, mrs. Harris, there was a meeting of the executive committee, and john mckenzie, one of the members of that committee, says the committee deadlocked. Tedros decided, since it was in his hands, not to call a public Health Emergency. And mckenzie says that was largely because of the reprehensible chinese coverup. So, you know, those meetings are held confidentially. And half of the scientists at that meeting and that meeting was the very first time i was going to get to that point. Sorry, i was laboring the discussion. Yes, by the 23rd of january, we called what was called an Emergency Committee, and thats what we call when we think the issue is getting so serious, we need to determine whether to alert the world that its a public Health Emergency of International Concern. And under that International Health regulations, independent scientists with expertise are brought together, usually virtually by phone, and they look at the evidence. They deliberate on the evidence. And they have a very free and frank discussion, a very energetic discussion. But they agree by consensus what their recommendation is. And by consensus, they came well, they came to dr. Tedros and they said, we dont have a consensus, at that point on the 23rd. He said, well, go back and look at it again, because i want a clear recommendation. They went back. They still couldnt come up with that. And then so, at in point, w. H. O. Did not make a declaration. But a few days later, as more evidence came in, dr. Tedros asked them to go back, consider. They all agreed, and we declared a public Health Emergency of International Concern on the 30th of january. I should not say we. Dr. Tedros did, on the advice of that scientific committee. And thats when the public Health Emergency of International Concern was declared. Let me ask you about the travel issue. So, on january 31st, President Trump issues a travel ban. The w. H. O. Actually criticizes it, saying its inappropriate. Now, i want to contrast this behavior. This seems at this point bizarre, because everybody has put a travel ban in place, you know, from south korea to singapore, and of course, china itself put one. And yet, the w. H. O. Criticized it. If i look at the sars outbreak in 2003, the then w. H. O. Director, grohar imbrutland put in a travel ban on china and criticized the Chinese Government for their lack of information and for covering up and for punishing whistleblowers. Why was the w. H. O. In this case not willing to do what it was willing to do in 2003 under that w. H. O. Leader . Well, so, this is a very interesting part of history. After because of the massive economic damage that was done to hong kong, china, and singapore, to east asia by the sars outbreak, there was a big investigation, a big discussion about how can we as a world do better about managing these declarations, you know . Did the w. H. O. At that time cause that harm . That was some of the question, some of the issues that were discussed, and that led to the International Health regulations 2005. And thats a very instrument under which this Emergency Committee weve just been talking about and whens why it seems to be quite complex, because its based on this international agreement. And one of the sort of fundamentals of the International Health regulations 2005 was that we should try to keep our travel and trade as normal as possible because the effect on economies, the drastic effect on economies, the drastic effect on the ability to get supplies to where they needed, to get this expertise to where they needed, it can be affected. And so, that was really why the Emergency Committee in january advised against imposing travel bans. But we do say, and its very clearly stated that in the early days of an outbreak, especially when youre dealing with something thats very clearly in one place, that it is not inappropriate to limit travel from that place. Dr. Harris, i want to thank you. Im sorry we have to go. I want to thank you for being very patient and answering the questions. We really appreciate it. Thank you, maam. Appreciate the time. Thank you. Next on gps, the former british Prime Minister gordon brown explaining what the world needs to do. My name is jonatan and i work for verizon. I totally get how important it is to stay connected. Were connecting with people, were offering them solutions. Customers can do what they need to do, whenever they need to do it online. Because it gives customers the ability to not come in to the store, they can simply tap and swipe. Something that they can use wherever they are. We care about keeping you safe. At verizon, we are here, and we are ready. We are open 24 7 online, so you can keep managing all you need from home and through the verizon apps and verizon. Com. By the enrock and roll tour ill turn you [ screaming ] zombies. If were gonna save the world we need to unite all the trolls. 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New, boost women. Bud light seltzer. Unquestionably good. Former british Prime Minister gordon brown is raising the alarm, saying we need an unprecedented amount of Global Cooperation to fight this virus. Gordon brown was Prime Minister from 2007 to 2010. During that time, he helped britain emerge from the last great economic crisis. Now he leads a group of more than 100 former president s and Prime Ministers who have outlined a plan to speed up process on a vaccine while simultaneously staving off global Economic Disaster. Gordon brown joins me now. Gordon, let me ask you lets get to the heart of this problem, which is what your plan is, sensible. But heres your problem. You have a United States who is led by a leader who does not particularly care for International Cooperation and International Joint action, but you and ive criticized that plan, too but you also have a chinese leadership that is more nationalistic, more closed and repressive in certain ways, you know, in terms of the coverup even of this disease, and even in terms of the response seems more interested in scoring points, public relations, rather than actual joint action. How do you make this work when the United States and china are in almost a kind of new cold war . So, we need a global effort to finance the vaccine, the cure, the diagnostics, the therapeutics. It cant just be a National Effort to build up capacity around the world for testing equipment, for ventilators and everything else. Its got to be a global effort if were going to prevent a second and third round of this coming from the developing countries which have inadequate Health Care Systems, inadequate social protection. We need to act globally to do so as well. And if were going to get the Global Economy back to life, there will have to be, as in 2009, coordinated action. Now, yes, america used in an age after the cold war work multilaterally. Now in a multipolar age it seems to be acting unilaterally. Poland is doing bilateral aid, but at the same time, we havent seen the g20 or g7, the United Nations Security Council while they have meth met, they have not taken decisive action. And you have to be in a position in a crisis, as i found in 2009, not to be able to say im doing whatever i can do or the best i can do. Youve got to be able to say well do whatever it takes. And that demands they come together. Now, i do believe that if we were to organize a pledging conference to meet the Global Health needs, i think the European Union, japan, canada, norway, united kingdom, the rest of asia, africa pushing, latin america, i think china and america would definitely come on board. G20 executive task force chaired by saudi arabia, more difficult because it has to communicate, but it hasnt got the detail in it. That means you get the decisive action. Were in the employment protection phase, but soon we will have to restoring demand in the world economy. Again, i think the rest of the world coming together, persuading china and america to take action will be effective. After all, american scientists, virologists, immune jollists, epidemiologists, researchers, statisticians, are all involved in this global effort. I think its a right that the government should now be persuaded to be involved in recognizing the importance of Global Cooperation. This is our moment of truth. Let me ask you about the politics of this, gordon, because if you look at europe, what this crisis has done, unlike 0809 and you tell me, you were there its made everybody pull inwards. So, i look at the European Union, which has reimposed borders, even in the schengen zone i look at the italians pleading desperately with other eu members for help and they have got not one country responding, which has resulted in very high levels of antiEuropean Union sentiment in italy. Some polls show 75 of italians now want to leave the European Union, think the European Union is hurting them. How do you get past that . I think youve got to look at the areas where cooperation can work and is necessary and essential to work. As i say, we will look back at this and we will suffer the condescension of posterity if at this moment of destiny the world cannot come together. But the areas that ive highlighted an the 200 who signed the letter to the g20, brilliant economists, Brilliant Health experts, former leaders, they wanted to highlight, coordination to finance the cure and the vaccine. Now, thats in everybodys interests, and i believe that america could be brought on board and china, too. Coordination to build up capacity. So instead of outbidding each other, instead of outbidding for a limited capacity, we build up the capacity for ventilators, test equipment. I think we could get agreement on that. Instead of allowing the disease to go right through the developing countries, help them build up their resistance, their resilience, but help them now so it doesnt come back in a second and third wave. Again, a common interest. And of course, the Global Economy being restored to growth, getting the Global Supply chains moving again, that is going to require collective, coordinated fiscal monetary central bank coordination. So, yes, there have been setbacks, and yes, people are doing their own thing in certain areas. But when it comes to the things that are needed for cooperation and coordination, i do believe we can get the Different Countries working together. It demands a relentless focus on these issues, where global coordination is essential. Otherwise, dont get the answers we want. Do you wish you had somebody like barack obama in the white house . I worked well with barack obama in 2009 during the financial crisis. But you know, this is not the time to look back. Its a time to look forward. And i am not interested in criticism. Im interested in being constructive. And i can see, america actually has put 500 million into developing countries, into their health budgets, into other support in the last few weeks. Britain is doing the same. Other countries are doing the same. But its not coordinated. If you cannot say we will do whatever it takes, because youre not coordinated, youre not in a position to concert your action gordon, i doing whatever we can i understand, and im so sorry, but we are out of time. Gordon brown, thank you so much for your perspective. We will be back. To our auto policyholders through may 31st. Because now, more than ever, being a Good Neighbor means everything. Like a Good Neighbor, state farm is there. And now for the last look. Today is easter sunday, but you wouldnt know it from the deserted churches around the world. Even the very seat of the catholic church, st. Peters basilica, stands empty and for good reason. A five day evangelical prayer meeting sparked a covid cluster and in india the virus is linked the an annual gathering in new delhi. The kind of social distancing seen at st. Peters is a sack relidge. Some disregarded curfew to attend friday prayers last week, clashing violently with the police who came to break them up. Even in the u. S. Law enforce. Has had to shut down events. Now, i dont have any religious standing, but i would point out that most religions have at their core the affirmation of life, the protection of the vulnerable, and the healing of the sick. All of that suggests doing what you can to keep yourself and your Community Safe and healthy. Thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. I will see you next week. [ singing indistinctly ] ladies, my friends and i are having a debate. I have a back rash. Alright. Whoa, mara. I laugh like this. [ laughs obnoxiously ] its just not my scene. I couldnt help but over do you like insurance . I love insurance. Did you know you can save money bundling home and auto with progressive, and renters can bundle, too . I know, right . [ laughs ] [ singing continues ] whyd you stop . I was listening. [ microphone feedback ] whyd you stop . I was listening. My time is thin, but so is my lawn. 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