Obviously the investigators are still trying to figure out what was behind this, who the bomber is. Im told theyve identified a male as the bomber but theyre still trying to learn more about him. What is most striking to you . What was the bomb made out of . Because that leads you to oo lot of conclusions. This is the deadliest Terror Attack since july 7th, 2000 fiv 2005. And almost certainly a Hydrogen Puraukside bomb. Because the signature of al qaeda and isis are these kinds of bombs. So where was it made . Because you need a commercial refrigerator often the store the chemicals. Theyre very toxic if youre making these kinds of bombs, youre oftenb wearing a gas mask. Theres a whole apparatus i would be looking for. We dont know if its a hydrogen
peroxide bomb. Would it be a loan wolf scenario . Or how likely would that be . Im skeptical. Weve had people in this country build those bombs and kill themselves. Its difficult. You need training. Ive been in Bomb Making Courses where it takes many hours. The proportions are very, very careful. This is not something you can just read on the internet and make, usually, by yourself. Ive spoken to british counterterror officials repeatedly over the last several months and they talk about a constant level of threat and a number of plots toward it in recent months. Theyre already on the highest level you can imagine. At the end of the day is difficult to prevent. I would say impossible. If you think about the United States and what wrooeeve heardm all 50 states thousands of cases, i would estimate ive worked with European Security services, theyre sitting on at least 10 times the threat per capita. You have questions about how many people i can follow and the toughest question, intent. Im looking at a subject saying ive got to choose between 100 people, which ones i have to cover. Within two weeks that individual may say im transitioning from im interested in jihad to im killing somebody. And youve got to determine which of those people youre triggering youve got to follow. 200 cells, 2,000 suspected jihadists. 10,000 suspected supporters of jihadists. You dont have the man power in a country like that and you saw that in france. They cant follow all of them, even if they have a suspicion. And phil, i think you would know this in your own experience. Do do a bombing, it probably looks like you have some kind of support system. Its not a single actor is more likely to do Something Like using a car to mow down people, as you saw outside the Houses Of Parliament a couple of weeks ago. So at this point, talking to Law Enforcement officials, their initial suspicion is that were going to see the high likelihood that this person had a support system, probably had some kind of training, as peter burgen was mentioning and so theres a lot more here to get to the bottom of. And how concerning is this for u. S. Law enforcement . All Law Enforcement in the world is understaffed when it comes to trying to track all the people that may do something. So more than to narrow that down. They cant follow everybody and rely as much as possible on intelligence, on individuals cooperating in the community to
tell them of suspicious persons and electronic capability and of course then we have the other argument in a free society about civil liberties. Do we want Metta Data Being stored, nsa wire tapping international calls. All of that type of thing kicks back in. So its very concerning. And we dont know because its early. A question thats going to be addressed is was this inspired or directed . Was this someone who became self radicalized, maybe found some of the recipes in effect for the bombing online . Or if they had some sort of contact at home. The truth is both of those is unsettling and alarming in its own way because the self radicalized are harder to track and the directed ones means theres a line back to the organizations in syria. Theyve directed all of their followers all over the world so they dont have to micromanage each individual case or have this person saying are you
ready, do it today. They dispatch them like zombies. Was there involvement that led them to a particular target . And was there anything recently coming from isis, which we know has been calling on followers in europe to launch terrorists attacks. Osama bin ladens son has called for these kinds of attacks recently. School shooters look at other school shootings. So we have an attack at a concert hall, similar to that of bataclan in paris and it was an American Star as it was an American Band in paris. Theres a copy cat aspect here. Weve had 850 brits go to get training in syria. We dont know we obviously dont know at this time but
brits have been pretty lucky so far. Certainly you have both heard from british officials that they have hundreds of these guys that have come back and as isis gets pressured in iraq and syria, more of them are coming back and theyre very particularly worried about them in places and concentrating in places like manchester and midlands and london because thats where theres a Support Network. And no one is off limits. Scle clearly the target was womenen and children. Its pams reporting that they have an idea on who they believe to be the suicide bomber. Theyre now i imagine looking at his connections. Walk us through what the Law Enforcement process is now. Youve guatemala enforcement intelligence. The first tear is are there co consphe conspirators. The question is are there
conspirators involved in the tack tomorrow . Where did the money go to . The most critical element communications. I wauncnt a cell phone. I want a laptop. Second tier would be who radicalized Support Network and youre looking down the road. Is there a tether that goes back Someplace Else . Might be western europe, might be syria. Can we get enough information against a safe house in syria among the people who might have been involved. And youve got to be worried in a couple hours people are going to go to work in london whether or not there could be other people who might be Waiting In The Wings to do something just like this. Squh you look at other attacks, weve all coveringed t covered the paris attacks for instance, look for other contacts. And look for how big the web grows. Theres a possibility of a loan actor. One of the possibilities we saw in paris and brussels was that in those neighborhoods almost no contact with people very isolated. So they had a difficult time getting operation and you could argue One Way Or Another whose fault that may be. But they had isolated communities that had been there for a couple of generations and not really assimulated. So the question now is is manchester in a similar situation. Do we have an isolated neighborhood where people dont feel assimilated, they feel like foreigners. So we havent heard that part of this yet of the Police Relationships in those neighborhoods. You have the profile of the folks who were the average local teen. You have that uk, you have that here. Who were assimulated and and isis attacks in europe
have been a phenomenon. All these people went through the belgium prison system. You have britain is partly proteched by the channel, partly protected by a very good Intelligence Service and maybe a little bit of luck. Unfortunately this is a new development that is pretty worrisome. For a while we have seen a lot of brits go to iraq and syria for training. The numbers for french and belgium is much larger. The french have a better handle on what tom is talking about is definitely a problem in the uk. Theyve certainly done a better job of trying to infiltrate and keep an eye on those people coming back. You never know its a resource problem. In russia and tonight is the
night that we have developments sadly. We certainly do. We have Breaking News in the trump russia investigation. Cnn can confirm that President Trumpt personally asked officials to publicly deny collusion and were told the request was made back in march and the director of National Intelligence and the National Security agency refused to comply and special Counsel Robert Mueller has been briefed on secret memos from fired fbi director james comey and that includes the memo in which comey documented his claim but the president asked him to end his investigation of fired National Security advisorer, Michael Flynn. Tonight a key house supervisor showing flynn lied to investigators about who paid for his trips to russia, including a 2015 Speaking Engagement that he falsely claimed was funded by u. S. Companies, this as hes
defying a subpoena and invoking his Fifth Amendment right to testify. The panel isopen on the possibility of holding flynn in contempt of court. This is certainly stunning information. We learn the president made calls to his two top intelligence officials to try to knock down what james comey said publicly. So we learned that he made a request to the fbi director. Knocked this story down and the fbi directorer said no and wrote it down in a memo. We confirm tonight as first reported by the Washington Post that after comey made that famous Testimony March 20th where he confirmed in a public setting that fbi was investigating whether members of the trump team had communicated and colluded with russia in the campaign, that he made calls to dan coats and to the director of the National Security agency, Admiral Mike Rogers and asked
them to publicly state that there was no evidence of collusion. They both refused that. And they were uncomfortable with it, my sources tell me. Felt this was undue pressure that president was putting on them with an investigation underway. And with this report joug, it show as pattern because as youll recall, we reported that Reince Priebus called the fbi to publicly reporting about communications between russia and trump and what really stuck out to me in particular reading this article in the Washington Post was that white house officials reached out to the fbi, people in the fbi trying to get them to end the investigation into Michael Flynn. It means this is spreading. Obviously you have a boss. The boss is really unhappy. Hes ubseszed with this. Hes reaching out to everybody he can because he still thinks hes running the trump
organization rather than be president of the United States. Hes telling his people cant you talk to people over there and put a stop to this and the Washington Post reporting says that these white house officials did that. We know about Reince Priebuss outreach, which he has explained. He did that, i believe last february but this is a plural. This says they sounded out top intelligence officials about intervening with comey. So suddenly this is spreading. I think part of the problem is the president has had a lot of frustration about the fact that he thinks theres information that shows theres no collusion and he wants look, in his last Press Conference he mentioned that he can only speak for himself. The first time hes used that language. Hes suggesting other people have problems but not he
himself. I think one of his great frustrations has been he knows comey has briefed members of congress and among the things he did not say to them was that donald trump was personally under investigation and hes suggested he is not. And why cant comey come out and say that . Thats what the president s frustration has been. And hes been hanging on, james clapper, the former director of National Intelligence who said some of the same sentiments. Testimony before multiple committees, he would not rule out the possibility of the president himself. Tomorrow will be a key moment, both dan coats and mike rogers are appearing in separate hearings on separate issues on capital hill. Coats will go before the Armed Services committee, Lindsey Graham also sits on that committee. So you may hear concerns from republicans on this issue of
whether the president tried to undually pressure his chiefs to bat down these stories. The commonality in all of this is that a pattern of interference. At a minimum, right . You can debate the definition of Obstruction Of Justice and thats a fair debate because thats a legal question but you have a pattern, at least of a president going to the fbi director, we know, going to the heads of Intelligence Agencies during an active investigation. Didnt anyone say you cant do that . They did refuse the request. Shouldnt he know he cant do that. Either he knows and is okay with crossing the boundaries or he just doesnt understand the rules. There are boundaries beteen the white house and the fbi for a reason. Talking to white house officials, you can hear their frustration because i think theres been an effort to try to threat president know heres what you can do and heres what
you cannot do. Roger stone is still in touch with the president and weve heard from other people under investigation in this investigation who are still talking to the president. This is something because of the appearance and theyre talking about the weather. It does not look good. And how he fired one of the u. S. Attorneys from new york. He tried to call berock before his firing and he thought that was inappropriate. And did not take the call. But the president seems not to have gotten that message when he talks to the other investigators. We have a special counsel of course, Robert Mueller and your reporting today was thatd he has begun to look at the comey memos, right . So look at the fact that the president interfered with comeys investigation. Thats right. Im told by a person familiar that part of this probe will
likely focus on Obstruction Of Justice and hes less than a week into his special role as special counselal, hes already been briefed on his memos and one memo in which he wrote that the president asked him to end the Michael Flynn probe and now the former director, comey will be a witness in this investigation. It raises the question what about him testifying . He has given the Investigation Indication to Congressman Chaffetz today that he wants to talk to mueller before he testifies because now hes a key witness. So even if he continues with his plans, it raises the question that mueller and is there concern that he might not be able to appear at all. Theres concerns about what he may say. I spoke to one of the members of the Senate Intelligence community and he said thats a concern. What can james comey say publicly . The top democrat had a chance to talk today. He said that mueller and comey were having a discussion in terms of what comey could say publicly. If mueller had it his way, he wouldnt testify at all. He wants to tell his story. This is not a shy person. This is somebody who kept these memos and has a story ing. Insisted on a public testimony as well. Exactly. He has a story he wants to tell. So while he cant talk about the investigation or he cant talk about what he was doing, but he can talk about what was in those memos, it would seem to me. And whether the white house tries to assert any kind of executive privilege. There is some waving of that privilege that has already been done at least in the view of legal experts who watch this kind of stuff. But we can probably expect there is somebody at the white house who is looking at this and
trying to figure out a way to reserve that. Buse we dont know Everything Else comey has in these memos. Certainly the white house doesnt know everything in the memos. Untlsz lless the lawyer, the House Counsel has talked to him about what he toads comey. And makes you wonder if mueller will tell comey not to reveal anything else because theyre considered evidence in the investigation. The president is on his first overseas trip. Hes had a moment to shine, i imagine, with a big arms deal with saudi arabia. Hes gone to the western wall in jerusalem. Theyve talked about peace in the middle east but hes going to come back in a few days and comey appearing and dragged back into it very quickly. This was supposed to be a reset and in many ways it was. The president s had, so far, a very successful trip. And so what theyre trying to do is reset. You saw that Reince Priebus high tailed it back here because theyve got budget coming out tomorrow. I dont have to tell you this. Theyve got lot. They want to deal with tax reform and the president hasnt been tweeting on this at all because hes been abroad which may be a blessing. So when he comes back, hes going to im sure hes aware of this post story and hes going it get back in the thick of it. He was obsessed about it before, i dont think its going to lessen any given this story about dan coats and he kept the story alive today by in the meeting with netanyahu he said that was a trouly remarkable moment. In effect confirming that israel was the source of
the information. That issue is not going away. Members of Congress Absolutely want to get records of that meeting, particularly in light of the reports friday of him calling james comey a nut job in that meeting. And youre seeing the white house already kind of preparing for the fact this is going to be a kochcontinued crisis. Were told Cory Lewandowski met with the president before he left and its to bring him back to do Crisis Management or control. Were told thats an issue, an idea under serious consideration. Hes a lobbyist. He hes got a very interesting list of clients and im sure he doesnt want to divulge if he comes back to service. I think its going to be an indication of how seriously theyre taking this. Shake up is not gone. There was supposed to be a staff
check up a while ago. I think hes still very much alive. We dont know how its going to land. Good way to keep fear in the west wing as well. One of the other star witness before committees coming up will be general Michael Flynn. Today we learned hes going to take and the question is whats ne next . Both of them areopen on the idea of trying to hold him in Contempt Of Congress or doing something to try to get access to these documents. We know going through the Contempt Procedures is a long process, very difficult to enforce but the idea for burr and warner is to scare the other witnesses into complying with the request for other records, particularly in communication with russian officials, anything theyve talked about with
russians, they want to make sure those recrrds turned over. Michael flynn, i talked to a source close to him who says hes not going to testify publicly if it does come to it. But burr may make him plead the fifth publicly in an effort to embarrass him. It does seem flynn have specific issues that only apply to him. Not registering as a lobbyist for turkey. Reporting foreign income. Not the same issues daes s and Elijah Cummings today. This is so much news. We have concern about the committees getting riled up in partisanship but you have the republican Chairman Subpoenaing and saying no immunity for Michael Flynn and you better bring those documents. Talking about contempt. Now it makes you wonder
bigger picture, gloria, how damaging this is for President Trump the white house if his former National Security advisor is pleading the fifth, not responding to a subpoena request. It doesnt look good and donald trump, we believe, remains friends with flynn. Hes an orphrphan to everybody e at the white house but i dont think to the president and today Elijah Cummings,ing the democrat charged that flynn lied on his Security Clearance forms and said that he told investigators he was paid by u. S. Companies when he travelled To Moscow In December of 2015 when we know that he was paid by Russian Television and that we had only insubstantial associations with foreigners and we know he had dinner with vladimir putin. So i think that there is a large Credibility Problem for flynn,
which of Coursic Mas Ask The Question why did he become National Security advisor . And you made the mention of showing bipartisanship. The democrats are pushing Jason Chaffetz to issue subpoenas for white house documents to show whether or not Michael Flynn disclosed any of these issues, these foreign payments, any connections with the russians. Something the white house has not yet comply would because the white house says they claim they dont have some of those documents. But nonetheless, chaffetz has been silent on the issue and hes leaving soon. So whats going to happen after. You have these investigations on capitol hill, this special counsel probe. We were told that Robert Mueller whos now over seeing the probe has been to the fbi headquarters, been meeting with counterIntelligence Agencies that have been meeting with this case. How is this going to move forward . Do you think hes going to try
to negotiate and say im taking the lead here . Look, he is. And he wants to do this quietly. He wants to do it with a little less drama perhaps. Hes hiring people. Hes going to make sure i think hes working quickly to make sure he gets Security Clearances and make sure this investigation is well funded and it will go wherever it will go. And i think i mentioned this in our last the last time we did this that one of the things to keep an eye on is as this investigation goes forward, are we going to get an answer from the Justice Department as to when Robert Mueller finishes the investigation, if he finds any kind of criminal activity it even goes to the president perhaps. We dont know where hell end up. Will the Justice Department promise to refer that to congress . Because as we know theres an existing legal guidance to the Just Department that does not allow you to charge a sitting president with a crime. So the question for the Justice Department and Rod Rosenstein in particular, will you make a promise that youll refer to congress which then congress has a political solution to all of this . Congress has a different investigation. Just as in iran contra. We keep talking about ancient history. But the congressional investigators wanted to get to the truth and so they gave oli north immunity. Where the special counsel did not. It took years for him, after oly north testified in congress, it took him years to convict north and that was overturned because he couldnt prove that he couldnt uphold the conviction without using the immunized testimony from congress. So that got really tricky and complicated. But the American Public knew what happened before the courts
decided anything because they heard from oly north. The iran contra. A lut of folks ive spoken to ing all the comparisons to waterga watergate. But many will say Iran Contrais a better parallel partly because of the process and regan survived the controversy but debillidated. He eventually over came it. It was key what he did. You wrote an interesting article. The former bush official, he talked about how regan was able to get over this and one of the ways was by embracing the investigation. He made changes. This is not something that donald trump has seen any inclination to do. Weve seen his efforts to bury this, to tell people its fake news, to tell his intelligence officials to stop the fbi from looking at this. Hes doing all of the opposite
things that ronald regan did. Lets take a moment to look at the positive. Hes tried his intelligence chiefs, they refused. He tried his fbi director, he refused. He did get fired. He had his man at the Department Of Justice and the deputy ag. He appointed to special counsel. You have a lot of push back in the way its operating. Do you think part of this is because he went from oo Business World where he was head of a company to now being in a world where there are checks and bal ngss . He was running the Trump Organization and i would argue it was probably okay to take a loyalty oath to donald trump because that was the man you were working for. Asking comey to ledge his loyalty is not the right thing to do. Even if it he appointed you you take a pledge to the United States. You dont take a pledge,
personally to donald trump. So that is the difference here and the question swl the president it it. Or is he ignoring . Did white House Counsel ever tell President Trump you shouldnt talk to comey, to these Intelligence Agencies about the investigation . And maybe they have and we dont know. Maybe they need someone teels come in and do an intervention. They may be able to get through to him because they clearly understand theres a risk here for the president. The fact theyre thinking about bringing in outside counsel to personally help the president through this crisis shows you that they realize this is something very risky for the
president. Sqwhen sally yates came in wh her hair on fire about general flynn, did he go into the president and say you know, we really we have to think about this . To be a Fly On The Wall during that conversation. Sorry to cut you off. But your reporting, gloria. Chris christie did not want flynn to be National Security advisor. General flynn, im told, wanted to be National Security advisor, Secretary Of State or secretary of defense. Chris christie was fired, the first Transition Team was fired. He was not on their list for any of those jobs. And i believe they might have thought of him for d or director of National Intelligence, Something Like that. But they knew he was trouble for them. And i believe to a certain degree, after their first
briefing that i believe it went so badly for flynn that donald trump came out of it and spoke with someone with whom i spoke who said that was really bad and donald trump agreed but said hes been so loyal to me. Always back to the loyal thing. The thing for flynn that won this job for him was the fact he had a direct connection with the president. This is something that nobody else could really interfere with. And Jared Kushner was also supportive. You ask the question whos standing up to the president . You had sally yates stand up on the travel ban. She was fired. Portrayed by the president and many in the party as an obama partisan, even though she served previous administrations of both parties, etc. But perhaps easier to make that argument to some degree. And james comey. He served both parties, both
administrations. Hes fired, call him obama was guy. Now you have two of trumps own guys, as it were, direct of National Intelligence said no, he would not knock down these reports. Mike rogers, who was meeting in trump tower during the transition. There was talk of him being the director of National Intelligence. Im not saying hes trumps guy but certainly not somebody they considered an obama and theyre saying no to him. Richard nixon hate to bring this up. But youll recall sdhg cia to get the fbi to end the investigation into watergate. I think thats one of the things in the trump cabinet, there are a lot of officials not necessarily have been trump cheerleaders all the way to the from the starting line. Nikki haley, for one. She did not support donald trump during the primary. She was very critical of donald
trump and you have seen her break from the Trump Administration on key issues. Thats why its going to be so interesting when dan coats is asked direct questions about whether the president pressured you to knock down reports because cotes, i know hes not necessarily someone who carries water for donald trump. He wasnt during the campaign. What will we do now one of the most fascinating things is talking to people on capitol hill, who are trying to figure out exactly how far they need go or can go to support the president simply because theres a lot they dont know. They simply dont know if they stick their necks out for him, will they find out in the end that actually all of this is true. Just in talking to people on the hill, you get this sense of tension as they try to figure
out how much to embrace the president or whether they should step back and let the democrats do their thing. And thats why the news of the special counsel was so welcome by many republicans, even though they didnt want one before he was opointed and as one democrat told me hes awesome because it could take off their plate but as you have this drip, drip, drip of stories coming out every day, whether its cnn or the Washington Post or the new york times, theyre coming out every day and republicans have to respond. And its the Obstruction Aspect that is the most alarming to the republicans on the hill. The Collusion Aspect is something a lot of the republicans are not sure its there. But when talked about interfering. Against the back drop, the president has been traveling overseas. I want to bring in our cnn senior White House Correspondent in jerusalem. How has the administration been handling all of these
revelations day after day . Reporter theyve certainly been watching these revelations as they happen in real time and as gloria was saying earlier the chief of staff, Reince Priebus and chief strategist, steve bannon are back in the west wing. They are monitoring all of this and that is for a reason. This is a part of a split screen operation. No questioning the president is seeing this trip as a welcome distraction. Hes seeing this trip as a way to sort of get back on track but the underlying sort of feeling out here among aids, advisors, you can see it on their face every moment a new story pops like this. It revurts them back to whats awaiting them in washington and earlier when the president was meeting with the british Prime Minister sorry the israeli Prime Minister, netanyahu, he
slipped and talked about the thing he said to the russianing officials in the oval office. He said i didnt say israeli, well, no one said he did. That was the one moment you could see the president was clear that he still had russia on his mind but as he goes forward, more than the attack in manchester on his mind. The president will be giving a speech before going to the rome, to vatican and brussels and to the g7 meeting in italy and back to washington late saturday and again all of this is waiting for them but behind the scenes, i am told by Senior Administration officials and advisors they are narrowing in on the personal lawyers that he will have. A team of lawyers. Im told theres not go foog be one individual whos going to be working on this, on this side as an outside lawyer. Its going to be a team of
lawyers and of course that is something that is always necessary. Other white house staffers may have to lawyer up. But this is very much in the moment here. Theyre certainly doing everything they can to stay focussed on this trip but theyre definitely watching every bomb shell that happens in washington. And has the white house had any response to the Terrorist Attack in manchester . Reporter no, they havent, pamela. Were told by Administration Officials that they are preparing a statement. They are go having to a statement at some point. We thought it might be here by now but the sun is just about to arise. It is arising in jerusalem and the president is waking up to what is the first major Terrorist Attack of his presidency. The biggest one no question. Hes been talking about extremism, combatting extremism. Well, this rests exactly that heart of that to. Hell be giving a speech in a couple hours time. And hes heading to europe tomorrow. This is something hes been talking about a lot and is indeed the biggest challenge facing him but were awaiting a specifics on the attack. And back to our Breaking News. Cnn has learned that President Trump persuade two of the top intelligence officials to issue public statements knocking down the probe into possible cuflugz to the Trump Campaign and russia. Joining me we have representative, a democrat on the Judiciary Committee and a republican on the Armed Services committee from indiana. If i could begin with you, congresswoman, whats your reaction to our reporting that President Trump made calls to Admiral Mike Rogers in effect asking them to knock down evidence in this investigation . I think its incredibly
troubling. I think it continues a stream of events. I feel a little bit like i have whiplash going from one story to the next. But all of them point to this president trying to interfere in an investigation. I think that we are looking to get to the bottom of this. The question and i think you were discussing it earlier is what kind of informication we get as we look into all of these issues. You use the word interference. I think if its true, i believe it is Obstruction Of Justice. We have to prove intent. That is part of the Obstruction Of Justice. But the more we have stories, the more it seems intent is there. But you have him calling now two Intelligence Directors and i think you get into this is a person determined to try and
stop any investigation into Michael Flynn and that is i think for nothing else he should thds that this would be very bad optics but thats in the best case scenario. I have it ask you because youre a veteran. And this would mean he was orderinging a navy admiral to tamp down an investigation. If these allegations are true, this would be a pattern of a of troubling allegations. I think republicans and democrats are unified to support the mueller investigations, his independence, his integrity that hes brought and credibility along with the congressional investigations in the house and senate. Lets let those investigations do their work before we make a rational statements about anything further than that. Im content in letting these run
through the process. Im content in wait interesting the slegzs to work through the process to make statements about what hypothetically should happen. I think thats important and entirely appropriate to allow the investigations to work through the process before making statements about what might or might not happen. It gets down to what is the standard here. If is proven to be true that president of the United States is director of the fbi and told them to stop and active investigation, would that to you lets forget the legal terminology. Would that be undue interference . Theres no question these allegations are serious. They undoubtedly be an independent investigation as well as the the investigations in the house and senate. I believe it is a completely responsible and appropriate to allow the investigations to work their way through the process before addressing hypotheticals. And that brings to the next question because you have a Special Probe who is take over the investigation. I was talking to one official saying there is concern on his part that you have these two investigations where theyre calling witnesses to testify as well as james comey and how that could interfere with what hes trying to do. It is a chal fging situation. We saw a tiny hint of it. There wasnt much that was classified but one of the things very frustrating to many of us in the room was when we were just trying to get information about why he wrote the memo, why did he write the memo . Did he just wake up one day and say hey, this would be great or did someone tell him to write it . If that was the case he didnt answer any of those questions and he dreked that to the fact wednesday is congress has an Oversight Authority we should be able it continue to investigate as this goes forward and while its true we want to wait for the facts to emerge, we cant afford to wait for a long time particularly with story after story emerging. This latest news is extremely distressing. And the fact that Michael Flynn will invoke his Fifth Amendment rights in response to subpoenas from the Senate Intelligence committees. Heres what President Trump said about those who take the fifth. She has people taking the Fifth Amendment. Four people plus the guy who illegally did the server. So there are five people taking the Fifth Amendment. Like you see on the mob, right . The mob takes the fifth. If youre innocent, why i cant say or defend whether or not he is 199but nal be a part of the investigation. What do you make of the fact he is taking the fifth. Its a troubling. Its part of a troubling series of actions by mr. Flynn. And it it, kwen, foreshadows a troubling pattern of behavior weve seen in recent weeks. I want to ask about your because of course weve heard Many Democrats in public criticize the president s behavior here. Its only in the last week or two where speaking to Folks On The Hill republicans who at least privately some publicly but many more trieftly say listen this is getting to a
different level. Wide eyed was the way one republican lawmaker described it to me last week. Do you sense a change in the last or two about the level of concern from inside your own caucus. A concern in whether or not we will fulfill an agenda we set to out to fulfill fl im a freshman on capitol hill. To address the big issues of the day. As we get caught nup the frenzy over each Breaking News item from day to day related to the administration, it is definitely a distraction from our ability to do that. But is it more of a distraction . Are you becoming concerned and other flo republicans concerned that the president did something here that requires a remedy . Right, that may have crossed a line . Begin its err responsible to say too much more without Lourg The Investigation to work through the process. I believe its important to allow Director Mueller to do his work, allow the congressional committees to do their work before before speaking
anything saying anything further about mr. What pmgtly could come next. This could take a while for the investigations to wrap up. What would you like to see in the meantime. We would like to see each of those roles has a slightly different charge, a special prosecutor, special counsel has a different charge. We have been calling for an independent commission sort of like. 911 style. A commission that would be made up of citizens that could actually look at this whats happening not only in the shortterm but in the longterm and then we would like to have the information right away around the memos, around some of the answers. You know i think its a little bit more than a distraction. I really do. I understand the challenges of trying to implement an agenda for the Majority Party were talking about the sangtty of the democracy. And to me thats whats at stake here. Its more than a distraction. It is deeply concerning to the future of our country and the future of are our democracy. I want to continue the discussion of the stunning developments right here in washington. Cnn dmirmd the President Trump that is two top intelligence oberles publicly push back on the investigation and on the possible collusion between the russia and the campaign. Gloria borger set the stage for us. How significant is this . Well i think its very significant. Because it comes on the heels of our understanding that he tried to that the president of the United States tried to shut down the investigation with james comey and then i think what you see here is more evidence of that. More evidence of the president of the United States trying to say, lets lets cool this investigation. Is there any way you guys can sort of figure out how to stop it . What we have a president obsessed with this, concerned about what it means for his administration and potentially for him. And he is try to end it and doesnt seem to understand that he really cannot ask these
people to do that. We shouldnt minimums words here right. Now we have granted they Havent Given Public testimony yet comey cotes and rogers but there are people who know they are talking to people. Myself and included and Kohl Comey Written Memos how he is going to testify on the hill. This is a president going to Senior Intelligence and Law Enforcement officials and giving them instructions about an ongoing investigation. Right. Not good. Not good. Now, we know from our reporting, pam, that that Director Comey was keeping these writing these memos because he thought that somehow he could teach the president what was appropriate and what was inappropriate. It didnt seem to me from my sources that that Director Comey at that point thought it was obstruction. He thought that this was somebody who toents know. It made him uncomfortable but he didnt necessarily in that time it was. Thats going to be the one
area where republicans defenders of President Trump are going to seize on in the hearings why didnt james comey raise this earlier either in hearings or in private or even in classified briefings with the Senate Intelligence Committee Leaders . He did not do that. Why not thats going to be whether you guys mention how you expect him to address it. But does he pass the threshold of believability and credibility . How do the voters view it . How doo are do sloughers senators. If he didnt view it as obstruction i think thats a big deal for republicans in congress to to illuminate. And also by the way its a kind of curious practice to be writing these memos and talking to people outside the fbi about what youre discussing with the president i think thats a question were going to hear members of congress wanting to hear from comey. Because it is sort of weird. I was told by one source. He might have thought it was obstruction. I was told exactly thats what we were told weve been talking to. In retrospect he did believe the president was trying to sfluns him. I did ask someone that he speaks to and said why would he share this with you to your point . And basically said this person said he was using Close Associates as a Sounding Board because it did make him uncomfortable. Now, whether thats the right answer thats not for. I can tell you this ive watched a lot of jim comey hearings on capitol hill. And every time someone asks him about some conversation he has had with the president he sauls says i cant talk about what i discuss with the president because i cannot and you know, look that is usually a very good answer that a lot of people give. Because it is true you want to give advice to the president you dont want to go on blab it. However it appears that comey was telling his friends about this. Aen that is a strange nirng. Unless youre genuinely alarm p laura coats if we could bring you in because general michael
flynn has his own legal challenges now and taking the fifth first of all can he take the igt fifth. He can. There there is consequences to the taking the fifth. You have the issue of contempt. You could certainly say im not going to be amenable agreeable. There is clearly a criminal investigation thats going to be looming overhead where any statements he may give or any documents he may produce will certainly tend to show either be incriminating whether guilty glt or or not its meant to protect even the innocent people from saying you cannot Government Force me to build the case against me. The burden is always on the government whether congress or prosecutor to say are you dlt you cant actually prove your innocence. There is consequences two paths to take either the congress can say were going to recommend to a Federal District court that they told new contempt good luck with that or say to the doj Justice Department please hold the person in contempt. Good luck with that. Laura i want to ask you on friday i asked you the same question. When at that point we just knew
about the president s conversations with comey now we know the president had similar conversations with the director of the National Intelligence and the head of the nsa. Is that Obstruction Of Justice when you have a pattern then of similar pressure applied to senior officials. Well i believe that the contextle many clues were speaking about all the circumstantial stuff does lead to the conclusion of the Obstruction Of Justice. However as a former prosecutor would i charge just that . No and here is why. Thats really an add on claim if you nink about thats a crude way of thinking about it add on. If the goal is to get the highest charge possible obstruction is a way to add on a penalty perhaps or to show there is somebody trying to impede my quest for what the charge is. You know it forms articleless of impeach. It can on at least two president s it is a serious charng and allegation. But if your goal is actually to understand what collusion in Nebulous Terms Mean what penalty
or law you can attach to the term collusion. Obstruction is not the end game. I think thats the reason you have prosecutors right now and perhaps mueller and everyone else saying were not going there yet because that is not the goal. Thats a step in the direction trying to add the cherry on top the prosecutor who is clearly sell innovating over the concept of collusion. Gloria its a political question. Do you get republicans onboard . If we get were many steps from that stage. But who call it obstruction as well. Its very early on. I remind you that you know eye in the nixon impeachment question the house Judiciary Committee voted out the articles of impeachment less than half the republicans voted that. We are a long way from there. We are a long way from republicans just jumping overboard. I think the people need to know more about the discussions with comey, need to know more about this socalled collusion. Node to i just think were
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