Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight 20141204

Very different situation than ferguson. Both in tone and tactics that we are seeing. People are very angry. They believe that this prosecutor should not have investigated his own police force. And that is motivating a lot of the similar feelings to what we saw in ferguson. As we have known all along. The issues reverberate across the country. Here a different night. Than we experienced recently in ferguson. The police here have shut off the henry hudson highway here. Where 12th avenue lead into it on the west side of manhattan. And the protesters hatve been pushed into a group. Frank, show them where everybody is. You have a mix. College kids here. Vocal, angry, hostile. Then you have people who have been here their whole lives. And theyre chanting the things you used to hearing. Added things to eric garner, dont breathe. And new york says no. And what theyre saying is theyve dont want to create disturbances with the police. What they want to do is get their message out. What they have done tactically is, they organize in pockets where they move aroundn the cit. They find different areas. New york city not an easy city to protest in. They are good at corralling groups. They have been effective moving around. Police have been effective. See riot gear. Theyre here, nonconfrontational way. One other thing. There are a lot of police in the crowd with protesters in plain clothes. Help them anticipate. I want to get more information, chris. We will get back to you. Right now i want to bring in new york citys Police Commissioner, bill bratton, joins me on the phone. Commissioner, appreciate your time. Explain to us, chris is in the crowd. Over on the west side highway. What is going on . What its the strategy for the Police Department now . Well, multiple strategies that, one its to keep the one is to keep the groups moving. If they stop on the street, attempt to block traffic by, by forming chains, that, we will make every effort to arrest them. We have so far, arrested 30 this evening. With probably more to come. But to point out that that this the demonstrators are nonviolent. We have no reports of violence. No reports of vandalism. So, we are working to to allow them to have their protest, but at the same time to, to possibly minimize inconvenience to the rest of the city. And, so we are, we are moving to break them up when they attempt to stop. And theyre not moving through traffic. When they move through traffic. They stop traffic, five, ten minutes. They go on, traffic move along. The arrests are for what, stopping traffic . What are they for . For a variety of situations. I cant give you specifics. I am not on the scene. Officers on the scene would have probable cause to make the arrest. So they will make the arrest. Lets talk specifically about this case. And the video, commissioner. So many people look at that video and they say, that you are asking us, not to believe our own eyes. Eric garner was selling loose cigarettes. He didnt appear to be violent. Explain what you see in that video . I am not going to talk about it. I have an administrative investigation Going Forward. That investigation will, will look at all right circumstances, and the criminal investigation has concluded. The district attorneys office. I would point out that, that, under our laws, under our government. We have a grand jury. That grand jury heard a lot of evidence. Thats not going to be available to you, i, the public. They made a decision based on the evidence they saw. So, we have to respect that, that judicial system. At the same time. We can certainly understand the anger of people. The frus traetration of people. A lot of people look at the video hand see a very disturbing sequence of events. So their frustration is quite obviously, based on what you are showing on your station tonight, the demonstrations. Can you discuss whether you think there was anything they could have done i will not discuss anything having to do with the case. Cant discuss anything having to do with it. I will be making the decision on the officer once we have our trial here. I am not in position to discuss the case at all. You have the final say. Will you fire him . The process now moves into an administrative review to see if the officer, or officers, that were involved in the death of mr. Garner were in violation of the Department Policies and procedures. If they were, to what extent. And based on that finding, if it its a finding of guilt, the decision will be made as to appropriate penalty, or discipline for that. So its much too early in the process to even comment on that. Commissioner, what is the takeaway of this for the average Police Officer . Well the takeaway for the average Police Officer is the understanding that they have an extraordinarily. [ indiscernible ] evidenced by the circumstances here in new york. At the moment, life can be lost in a moment, decisions made in response to instant decisions can be challenged in court. Challenged in the media. Challenged in administrative proceedings. Challenged in the sense of review to determine whether the decisions were appropriate. So officers, Police Officers in the United States have probably the most difficult job in public government. Increasingly their activities are available to scrutiny. Video and in the case of mr. Garner. That has both been a benefit as well as a hindrance. The benefit being, many departments such as our own, moving to widespread use of cameras used by our officers. It has been found that, they have often times helps to allow us to make informed decisions. But as we are seeing in the case of mr. Gaerner, grand jury reviewed. Countless times. And came up with the decision that was not a criminal act, committed by the officer. And that is their finding. And under our form of government. The finding stands. Commissioner, i have to ask you, you mentioned body cameras. How would body cameras have made a difference in this particular instance . I will not speak to that at all. But body cameras would have done in any incident is give you the different set of perspectives that you have one camera perspective there. Another circumstance. You might have had, two, three, four cameras depending on how many officers were equipped with cameras. How many civilian witness maze have had cameras. We are increasing moving into territory in the 21st century. Where there is much more widespread availability of video. But as much as we think video is the final determinant, it is not. Clearly, that often times, there were many other elements that have come into a decision before a decision was made. I ask you what the take away was for the average Police Officer, what about the haavera africanamerican man in many major city. Whats your question . Whats the takeaway. They will have to make the individual desticision what the take takeaway, what their issues are, concerns are, i am not going to speak for them. How can you, what can the Police Department do to restore trust between the department and members of the community . We are doing a lot of it here in new york. In particular, in the process of retraining the whole department on issues of use of force. We are in the process of acquiring body cameras. We are in the process of changing guidelines relevant to officer procedures. A department that is interactive with various communities. And some of what we see unfortunately such as the circumstances of mr. Garners death, are the rare exception and not the common place. We have also an issue that was of great concern to the community. The very large use of it has been reduced over the last several years, from 700,000, this year, fewer than 50,000. The numbers of arrests that arise out of that reasonable suspicion start with, increase dramatically, the officers using the, using the strategy, much more appropriately than they might have in the past. This is one example of trying to find ways to reduce friction, tension, and areas of concern with the, with cities, very diverse population. Do you have a message to the Garner Family . The message is the same as anybody would reach out to them. And express sorrow at the loss of, of their loved one. You told the city council, back in september, that police were being too aggressive in minority neighborhoods. And that it was eroding trust. Is this the case of overaggressive policing . I will not speak to the case. I told you that. Your words, that you said back in september. That police were being speaking, speaking in a broader sense. Nothing have to do with specificity or with the garner incident at all. Yeah. In a broader sense. Certainly an impression that the Minority Community has of the department. Certainly an impression, opinion that was expressed during recent elections of, of the mayors and city council members. Where a lot of them campaigned on the issue. They felt the Police Department was too aggressive particularly when it came to issues. Commissioner bratton. Thank you. Pleasure being with you. You as well. Want to bring in tom vernon in the studio. Former nypd detective. Through his long career worked as a patrol officer, Community Policing officer, and Police Academy instructor. What did you make of what the commissioner just said . Well, brings up a lot of valid points. There is a general disconnect between communities in general. Whether it be new york city, community. Ferguson, community, otherwise. The police and what the police can do. What goes into Police Training. The nypd specifically has a has a program called citizens Police Academy where some one like yourself, or any citizen in the, in new york city could go through the course. A 14week course at the academy. Can actually learn a condensed version what a recruiter would learn. It makes the training very transparent. The courses that are taught there are hot button issues, emotionally disturbed people. Domestic violence. They go through a firearm simulator. Citizens will take the role in a Virtual Reality case of what a Police Officer would go through to see huh they would react. The commissioner said he wouldnt speak specifically to the case, because it is on going. And thats understandable. You are a former member of the Police Department. When you lack at the case. The video of eric garner, you have trained Police Officers, what do you see in the video . Well, we see someone who was clearly not complying with the police. He was clearly under arrest. He had been arrested 30 some odd times before. He was no stranger to the criminal justice system. The officers had told him he was under arrest. Selling unpacked cigarettes in the hierarchy of crimes its not the greatest crime of the century. This is a quality of life crime, new york city, the people of new york city in the community would want addressed. They tell their local politicians, they tell their precinct commanders, i want this among other issues addressed. The police go and do that. You dont see Excessive Force in this video . To the average lay person, civilian, looks like Excessive Force. You have four Police Officers taking this man down, whether you want few say whether he was, didnt comply what have you. It seems like it was aggressive . Right. Well, when i say heave dent c d comply. Based on the fact. He did not see the video. He did not agree to be handcuffed. There is a force continuum. All Police Departments use. And that can be, whether it be physical force. Vocal commands. Then we have to ramp it up to physical force. Tom, stand by. I need to get back out to colleagues in the field now. Want to got to cnns Deborah Feyerick. Deborah, in times square, whats going on . Deb, are you there . Yeah, hey, don, i apologize. There is activity up here. We were walking along the west side highway. You could hear behind us, a number of Unmarked Police vehicles. Their lights on. Theyre actually, shepherding the crowd. Couple hundred strong. Who came off the west side highway. Now marching down broadway. We just passed lincoln center. Headed over to columbus circle. In your direction, don. Hear us making our way, towards you right now. This was a very organic crowd. People heard on twitter. They met up to join and make their voices heard. A lot of people are, feeling very strongly that they wanted to take part in this. We are headed down the circle. And there are about, i would say 25, 30 Police Officers. With, with officials that are also marching with their men. That are carrying the batons and wearing helmets, protectively. Very organized. Very peaceful. And we are headed your way, don. Deborah feyerick. Stand by. Chris cuomo. The Police Commissioner joining us. Bill bratton of new york city said 30 arrests in new york city. Expects more to come. It has been nonviolent. So far there has been no vandalism. Again these are people who are exercising their right to protest, most of them, peaceful here in new york city. Carrying it for you live right here on cnn. When we come back, more on our breaking news, protests spreading across the city. This city. Tonight in the wake of a grand jury decision not to charge the white Police Officer in the chokehold death of a black man here in new york. Dont go anywhere. We are live tonight. Hi. Im new ensure active clear protein drink. Clear huh . Im not juice or fancy water. Ive got 8 grams of protein. 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Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30tablet trial. Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use goodnight. Goodnight. For those kept awake by pain. The night is anything but good. Introducing new aleve pm. The first to combine a safe sleep aid. Plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. For pain relief that can last until the am. Now you can have a good night and a. Good morning new aleve pm. For a better am. In the country. We operate just like a city, and that takes a lot of energy. We use natural gas throughout the airport for heating the entire terminal, generating electricity onsite, and fueling hundreds of vehicles. Were very focused on reducing our environmental impact. And natural gas is a big part of that commitment. Welcome back to breaking news coverage. New yorks Grand Central station. Earlier tonight. Protests are spreading across the city of new york. Joe johns is in Staten Island where eric garner lost his life back in july. Eric garner, 43 years old. Father of six. Lived, died in Staten Island. Whats happening there snow. We have seen crowd come and go, don, frankly. And right now it is pretty quiet. If you look over my shoulder here, you see just a handful of people here at the scene. Where that altercation occurred in july of this year. The middle of july. Not many people is all. Earlier this evening there was a larger crowd. Interspersed with a lot of media. From time to time we saw people coming through, talking to the cameras including the father, in fact, of eric garner. And one of the things he did was call on the crowd to remain nonviolent. He said as far as he was concerned he didnt want anybody here in new york city, any other family to suffer in the same way his family has suffered. Over the last several months. A few others, councilwoman came by. We saw some just regular folks. Expressing a lot of rage. A lot of anger. And saying, you know, one man, i talked to at least, told me, in his view, no matter how uh you dress, no matter how many times you demonstrate, you still get the same reaction from the police. In his view, that was something along the lines of stop and frisk. So, there are deep concerns here in Staten Island. Once again just look other places. We have seen no violence. There has been very peaceful, but, there is a deep level of concern, i think more than anything. People have said tonight that they want their voices to be heard. Indeed. The Police Commissioner pointing that out. Saying so far, the Police Commissioner at the top of the show. 30 arrests so far. He expects more to come. It has been nonviolent. No vandalism to report. Joe johns, well get back to you. I want to go to Jonathan Moore, an attorney for the family of eric garner. Thank you. How is the family doing . Well, theyre upset. A tough day for them. A tough four months actually. Since july. So, this is this is a Strong Family though. And theyre, theyre trying very hard to be positive. They had a press conference tonight in harlem. Ive want you to listen to the widow. Listen. Im determined to get justice for my husband. Because he shouldnt have been killed in that way. Shouldnt have been killed in any way. He should be here, celebrating christmas and thanksgiving and Everything Else with his children and his grandchildren. And he cant. Why . Because a cop did wrong. Somebody that get paid to do right, did wrong. And he is not held accountable for it. But my husbands death will not be in vain. As long as i have a breath mine body i will fight the fight to the end. Thank you. Very strong. Very strong word there. How does one counsel a family tonight. What have you said to them . You know, a lot of tears. A lot of pain that you feel. That you sthhare with them. You know, people find inner strength in their god, their religion, and their family. And this is a very Strong Family. Erics mother is a real rock for that family. Erics wife is also very strong as you just saw, very strong. A very powerful woman. And i think they feel very concerned about Going Forward to try to get justice. Why do you think there was no indictment . Thats thats a hard question to answer. I was concerned when i read in the paper today that that all of the officers other than mr. Mr. Pantaleon were given immune fee. For their testimony. Which meant they could never be criminally prosecute ford whd f happened. And so it seemed that really disturbed me. This was not just about the actions of one officer. About the actions of a group of officers you. See the video. Over and over again you. See all the officers on top of him. Including one on his head. I mean, its just, its its difficult to watch. In the viewing, people see it differently. I dont know if you heard the Police Commissioner on at the top of the show. Top of the show. A former nypd Police Officer who did training. Eric garner was resisting. Do you see him resisting in the video . I dont see resisting. I see his hand up. I see him backing away. Theyre trying to deal with him. I see somebody come from behind and go around his neck and take him to the ground. I dont see resisting. What do you know about mr. Garners history with the officers . In the video you can hear him saying, you guys are harass mooing. Im too harassing me. It end today. The history of the officers. I dont know the history of the officers. That was his work location, so to speak. Thats huh ow he made his livin. Selling loose cigarettes. People can condemn that. A lot of people are forced to make a living on the underground economy. Thats how he did it. He was married 27 years. He supports, supported a lot of children he has the grandchildren. He was you, know working hard at what he did. He was considered a a peacemaker in that area. He was, earlier in the day, had broken up a fight. And the quality of Life Campaign targeted him as somebody who they would go after, over and over again. And you have to wonder, really, whether it is worth it to have that kind of focus on such a such a minor infraction when somebody can lose a life for it. I dont know to till yell you t truth. Why they wear resting him . They would till you to get a summons. This is not an arresting offense. I had a discussion about that. If you are selling contraband. Or dont have a vendor license on the street of new york they write you a summons. Usually dont arrest you. It is to give you a ticket. Stand by though, jonathan. I want to got out to, reporters in the field. Want to go to Deborah Feyerick. Athena jones. What are you seeing . Reporter hi, don. Following a protest going on for several hours. At its strongest, 300, 400 people out. Now, less than 100. Theyre still active. Vocal. Shouting things like out of your homes into the streets. Trying to draw more people out. Holding signs saying black lives matter. And justice for eric garner. And we indict the system. I spoke with a protester out with her younger brother. She said she cam out because she was hurt. She was hurt by the decision not to indictment the officer, eric garner case. Her younger brother. Young black man had been stopped by the police without cause. More times than he could count. Important for her to come out. And be part of this protest. This protest covered a large swath of the northwest part of washington. It has been peaceful. The police have been largely hands off. They have been hopping block roads. Direct the protesters. We havent seen any interaction really, between the police and the protesters. They have been standing along the sidelines thats what we are seeing. Angry and peaceful. Athena jones. Stand by. Want to get back to you Jonathan Moore now, the Garner Family attorney. Is the family aware of the protests happening really across the country . I think they are aware. I think they understand like a lot of people. This know it just a Staten Island problem or a new york problem. It is an american problem. Kind of violence occurs not just in our city, but, unfortunately, in other cities around the country. President obama spoke to that today. About the need to establish a sense of, that people, should be treated equally. So did the mayor of new york city. The mayor as well. And i think that there is, some lessons to be learned from this. You know, new york has gone through really, 20 years of really overpolicing up until. The recent election. We saw in the last ten years of the overuse of stop and frisk. It created a culture in the city. In the Police Department that led to this kind of conduct. We have to go. Stand by. We will get back to you throughout the broadcast. Thank you, family attorney. Our thoughts with the family. Can you let them know that. I will. Thank you very much. Back with breaking news. Protests in new york over the chokehold death of eric garner. First take a look at the editorial cartoon from new yorks daily news, tomorrow, by bill bramshaw. My naim a lineman for pg e out of the Concord Service center. I have lived here pretty much my whole life. I have been married for twelve years. I have 3 kids. I love living here and i love working in my hometown. At pg e we are always working to upgrade reliability to meet the demands of the customers. Im there to do the safest job possible not only for them, but everybody, myself included that lives in the community. Im very proud to do the work that i do and say that i am a lineman for pg e because its my hometown. Its a rewarding feeling. Welcome back to breaking news coverage. Live pictures now of new york city. Grand jury decided not to indict officer daniel pentaleo, and the chokehold death of eric garner. Protests spread across new york city. Spreading across the country. Want to look at what is behind the grand jury decision. I want to bring in jeffrey toobin, mark omara, and sunny hostin. Two things from the daily news. First, bill bramhalls cartoon from the new york daily news. And the statue of liberty. Says i cant breathe. Now to the cover of the daily news tomorrow. An all black cover. With, goddess of justice saying i cant breathe. And then the cover of the new york daily news. And grand jury clears choke cop. And we cant breathe. What do you make of the images . I feel like i cant breathe. Right. I think that it resonates with what is going on and resonates with so many people. The notion that you can see an unarmed man, choked, using a chokehold technique that is banned by the police. That he says 11 times, i cant breathe. They do not perform cpr. They are casual when he falls to the ground. We see it all on video. We see a man dying on video. And there is no indictment. How frustrated do people feel on the heels of the ferguson decision . On the heels of the Trayvon Martin case . On the heels of so man other cases. Seeing that play out as the the video is rolling next to you, sunny. See all the protesters out now. I have to ask, jeffrey toobin, not sure you were able to hear my conversation with the new york city Police Commissioner. Bill bratton. 30 arrests. More to come. Not violent. No vandalism. He wouldnt speak specifically to the video. But stood by the decision. What did you make of the commissioners remark . Well, i think, bill bratton is in a difficult position. Because he is part of of the deblazio administration, which dedicated itself to changing a lot of what has gone on with the new york Police Department. Especially when it comes to race relations. When it comes to stop and frisk. He, he was one of the originators of stop and frisk. He was one of the originat s originators. Bill bratton was Police Commissioner in new york under rudolph, giuliani. Long ago. Then went on to los angeles. Now has come back. But he, he along with mayor de blazio dedicated himself to trying to restore the relationship between the nypd and people of color. Now he is stuck with this asp l appalling situation. Frankly very hard to understand decision by the grand jury. It is understandable. He doesnt want to talk about that in particular. But he has got to deal with the fallout. He has got to deal with trying to restore this relationship. The trust. Decision in Staten Island is going to do nothing but poison the relationship. I mentioned asked him, how to reap sto restore the trust. What they were doing. Mark, the medical examiners office, ruled garners death a homicide. There was video, what else does, what else would some one need for an indictment if you see. People are being asked to believe something that that is right in front of their faces. Something different than what they see on that video. I do have faith in the system. I do, want to hatch faith in the grand jury system. We have been spoiled now that we watched the mike brown grand jury. At laes we got a chance east we see. We dont have the luxury in this case. I have to look at it and say hour, could 23 people look at this case, and say that we are not going to consider criminally negligent manslaughter which sort of requires a, a criminal lack of care. Sort of negligence is. In lawyers world. A lack of standard of care. A carelessness. In the way that eric garner was treated. Im frustrated because, this is a great case for us to have said we are not going to allow this. This is the landmark case cops cannot act this way. In a minor crime with an event where it led to a death. And unfortunately, now, we still have to try and make sense and trust in the system that seemed to come up with a with an, a decision that didnt make sense. As you can see, our correspondents are out right in the thick of it. That was Deborah Feyerick. Shortly and going to tell us what is going on. I have to ask you this, sunny. As a mother. And you and i talked earlier. The mother of a black and hispanic son. I dont know. How do you explain this . What do you say to him . You know, i dont know. When i came back from ferguson. I wanted to have a talk with him. He had been following the coverage. He was sort of saying, i know. I know. I cant believe this. I have been here all day. I havent had a chance to speak to him. But i dont know what i can say. At this point. Because, again, we have this on video. And it is such a clear case of Excessive Force to me. You know, what is the message from this grand jury decision. Is it that his life doesnt matter. That black lives dont matter. I think the message is loud and clear from this decision. My only hope is that now that we have the department of justice looking at it. Now that we know the attorney general has come out and has said, we are looking at this. Bottom line, we have seen many federal prosecutions and investigations successful after an unsuccessful state investigation. And perhaps that is the message. Perhaps the message is, we still have, a way to go, but perhaps justice can be had. Jeffrey or mark . Jeff. I just wanted to expand on that point a little bit. You know, i think the prospects for a federal prosecution of, of Darren Wilson are remote. But i think the chances of a federal prosecution in connection with eric garners death are actually much, much belter. Better. If you look at how the police behaved here. And if you look at what is potentially a racial motivation that a jury could infer from this conduct. That i think is very different from the wilson case. And could really result in a prosecution in federal court. Stand by, jeffrey toobin, mark, sunny. When we come back, protests in new york over the grand jury decision not to indict a white officer in the chokehold death of a black suspect. Covering the breaking news here on cnn for you tonight. Protests spreading across new york city in the wake of the chokehold death of eric garner. My colleague, Deborah Feyerick in the heart of times square with protesters. Deb, take it away. Reporter yeah, we can tell you, don. We started here six hours ago. The protesters at times square. Went over to rockefeller center. The Christmas Tree could not get there. Proceeded to go over to the west side highway. Shut down traffic. Really what their goal was. It was to shuttle down the traffic. It was to take the streets. It was to show everyone that this is what democracy looks like in their word. And thats really what they have done they have been walking out for close to sick hours. We were told a little bit ago. Don, to slow up. The group we have been marching with is going to meet up with the group that was on the west side highway. These are sort of demonstrations that were very well organized. They were broadcast on twitter that. s how a lot of people knew to come out here. Which they did. Some people said they heard. They saw it on television. They decided to join these marchers. And these marchers have been going strong the police have really given them very wide latitude. They have been able to to keep a perimeter around the crowd. Make sure they get where theyre going. They stopped traffic. They have helped, helped some of the drivers. That they are marching. And sort of almost collaborative. If thats the word for it. Experience. The Police Commissioner said they would allow people to protest peacefully. Thats what theyre doing tonight. He said, so far we spoke to him about abut out 35 minutes ag. 30 arrests then. He expected more. Deborah feyerick, and other in the field for the breaking news. I want to talk about the forensics here. The citys medical examiner, ruled the death, a homicide. Caused by chokehold compression of the test. Position during physical restraint by police. I want to know what lawrence cordiline thinks, chairman of the department of sciences at john j. College of criminal justice. What do you see when you look at the video . Well, i see a chokehold. They come in different varieties. In one type of chokehold there is a compression of the airway. Usually done with the forearm. And it leads to as funconscious, cardiac arrest and death. A very dangerous chokehold. You can damage the very delicate structures in the throat. The cricoid cartilage, the hyoid bone, the lair irynx. Spike lee was on earlier with anderson. Promises he will go in the crud to join protestors. He is out there. Go ahead. Reporter exactly. Thats exactly what he did. Spike lee and his son here. Walking with the protesters. Taking the streets. Have you seen anything like this before . Not in a while. My son, jackson, we were at the funeral for, for him and feel it was important to bring my son to the st. Louis funeral of Michael Brown. We were at home, as i left, and i said, get your camera. My son has his camera right here. We are here documenting. How do you feel the mood of the people. So many people out here . People are anything rechltgr. This is a diverse crowd. Nothing, black and white. New yorkers together. Black, brown, beige, yellow. Everybody is out here, letting the world know that what happened is not right. And letting out here. Peacefully voicing our opinion. Reporter do you think ultimately, final question, that things will change. Do you think this mood will get things to change . Yes, this is being seen all over the world. And i think, i have total confidence the attorney general, outgoing attorney general eric hoemd holder will get the job done that need to be done. Thank you. Take care. Byebye. There you have it. Famous people. All kind of people out here. Whats so amazing, don. About the diversity of the crowd. Really remarkable, don. Deborah feyerick in the crowd. With spike lee. Joined by his son. You know, you are from here. What do you make, before we talk about choke holds. What do you make of this ham penning today . Its shocking. A tragic loss of life. It shouldnt have happened. And the protests . Well i think people certainly have a right to protest, express themselves, looking for change. Good Police Training should have prevented Something Like this from happening. There are a lot of things police can do to present Something Like this. The most important weapon a Police Officer has is communication. Strong voice. Repeated attempts might have salvaged the situation. What you saw was a chokehold. You said three choke holds. One that can constricts air, the other constrict blood vessels. And then one that does both. Combination of both. Clearly, compress the veins, jugular veins, arteries in the neck, and by the way hemorrhagi case. That has been reported. That will cause lack of oxygen to the brain, unconsciousness within second if the brain is depleted of oxygen. Few minutes. Death. A are you surprised the officer wasnt indicted . I was. I wasnt a member of the grand jury. There may be things they heard i didnt hear. But i think that this should have been prevented. I dont know what the intent was. I think the police were intimidated by the size of eric garner. A big man. He had a lot of problems, healthwise. And this was, a number of factors came together that caused the death. Forensic scientist, and john j. College of criminal justice. Larry kolilinski. Thank you. In times square. People sitting down. Large crowd in times square. All over the city of new york. Breaking news on the protests continue right after this quick break. E financial noise financial noise financial noise financial noise breaking news on cnn. What you are looking at on your screen. Protests happening all across the city of new york. This is times square. Specifically that you are looking at now. And the protesters because of the chokehold death of eric garner. Charles barkley weighed in on this. He has something to say about the case reverberating across the nation. He sat down with brook baldwin, as always he did not hold back. Take a look. Let me go back to, the notion that of white cops killing black people. What about the case for eric garner here in new york, right, and then, one thing in ferguson, there is some audio. You see the video. Youve s you see the cops surround him. He ultimately. It was a homicide. He dies. I dont think it was a homicide. I dont think it was a homicide. It ways chokehold, you see it. I think the cops were trying to arrest him the they got a little aggressive. Excessive force, you know, Something Like that. But to go right to murder. When the cops are trying to arrest you, if you fight back, things go wrong. That doesnt mean, i dont think they were trying to kill mr. Garner. You know . He was a big man. And they tried to get him down. And i just think, we are giving the cops a bad name. And its really unfair. Because if it wasnt for them. It would be crazy out here. Because of what happened in ferguson there is a lot of anger, a lot of frustration, what can we as a country do with that, this energy right now . We can open a dialogue. Thats what i did was open a dialogue. Brook, in fairness, there are some black people out there who are crooks. And when the police come to your neighborhood, its a tense situation. The only time you interact with the cops is when things are going wrong. Thats the only time we ever interact with the cops. We cant just, wait until Something Like this happens and we have to look at ourselves in the mirror. There is a reason they racially profile us at times. Sometimes it is wrong. Sometimes it is right. Do you think Michael Brown is a hero . I think, now, i dont know about hero. I think it is a really unfortunate situation. Because i dont know what happened that day. I dont think anybody know what happened that day except, except the officer and Michael Brown. Put it in a situation where it is a narrative cops are killing black men. It is disingenuous. You have a lot of people, who have a hidden agenda. We have a lot of race baiters in the media. They love this stuff. What about racial profiling, we heard from eric holder a. Toern ja. Attorney general, they want to put an end to racial profiling. Is that possible . It is not possible. It is not possible. There are black men out there committing crimes. Why do you keep going back to that . Is the onus . On everybody. The onus is on everybody. We as black people, when the cops try to come and clean up the neighborhood. We cant say theyre racially profiling. We know who the crooks are. When you are growing up. Everybody know who the crooks are in your neighborhood. We never said anything, because theyre black. We never said anything. Then when Something Like this unfortunate happens. Well the cops are in our neighborhood profiling us. There is a reason theyre there, we got some crooks there. You got to take some personal responsibility. It shouldnt be your own personal responsibility if there are bad apples in your neighborhood and you are dealing with a Police Officer who has a preexisting notion about where you live . Let me tell you something. It is easy for all these pundits. You have these idiots on television every day. You know what they are, monday morning quarterbacks you. Know what monday morning quarterbacks are, they didnt have the balls to play on sunday. I mean that was i was not expecting that. Joining me, my colleague. Lots, whats been the feedback . I mean, i i knew we would get feedback. I knew people would love or love to hate the interview. They would be watching. But it has been tremendous. Outpouring of love. But also criticism, from what Charles Barkley said. I sat down with him yesterday. Right before your show. Yesterday evening. We just happened, the thrust of the conversation was about what happened with the grand jury in ferguson. You know, we were talking about police. A lot of police friends. Made me think of what was happening with eric garner case. This was before, i had any idea this was going to barack todrea. Happened to ask him. He said he would agree with what the grand jury decided. That that officer shouldnt be indicted. People talk about his language and the tone of how he says what he says. He doesnt care. He doesnt care. He doesnt care. People have called him ugly names. He talks a lot about the noise. You heard him talk abut the race baiting. And, i think his point, and i think at least whether, if you totally disagree with what he said with me. And his tone. I, i, respect that he said the onus is on all of us to try to find a solution. Well be right back. Thank you, brook. Youre welcome here anytime. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well be right back. 6 heres our new trainer ensure active heart health. I maximize good stuff, like my potassium and phytosterols which may help lower cholesterol. New ensure active heart Health Supports your heart and body so you stay active and strong. Ensure, take life in. Im don lemon. Live tonight with the breaking news. Protest in new york city over the chokehold death of eric garner. A july encounter with police. Today a grand jury decided not to indict officer daniel panteleo. Reaction spread from city hall to the white house. We will have the latest on that. Plus a woman accused bill cosby of rape. She tells her shocking emotional story tonight. We have a whole lot to got to tonight. I want to begin with Deborah Feyerick. Deborah, what have you beening de deborah, what have you been seeing . Now we are headed done to Madison Square garden. We have been to rockefeller center. We have been to the west side highway. 72nd street. Lincoln center. Down past columbus circle. On to Madison Square garden. Picking up people as we go. And i show you also how peaceful it is. You can see the nypd Communities Affairs officers out in force. Theyre walking behind the crowd. Keeping somewhat respectful distance. Not engaging. Behind me over here. You cant see. There are a dozen police cars, different cruisers, that are also sort of keeping the crowd moving. The crowd is moving on its own. But theyre being helped. Sort of propelled forward. This is a very organic crowd. Everybody is moving together. It is largely peaceful. And theyre just going. I asked one person, well where are you going. And they said they dont reay