Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20140829

Cnn cannot independently confirm whether the shots heard are from that incident, but it is another piece of the puzzle. Well have more about this new information from the company in just a moment. First ted rowlands has this report on the audio that were talking about. Reporter its the critical moment caught on audio tape, and it could be a key piece of evidence as investigators work to determine exactly what happened between Michael Brown and Ferguson Police officer Darren Wilson. The shots can be heard in the background of an online video chat. You are pretty. Youre so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could i forget. Its electronic. Its objective. It doesnt take sides. Reporter forensic audio expert Paul Ginsburg analyzed the ninesecond clip and created a wave form graphic highlighting the gunshots. He counts a total of ten shots with an approximate threesecond pause after the sixth shot. Take another listen. You are pretty. Youre so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could i forget. Reporter the threesecond pause could be very significant. It could be, depending upon what the witnesses say they saw and whats in the police report. Reporter several of the witnesses do mention a pause. They shot him and he fell. He put his arms up to let them know he was compliant and that he was unarmed and they shot him twice more. He put his hands in the air and he started to get down, but the officer still approached with his weapon drawn and he fired several more shots. Reporter an independent autopsy determined that Michael Brown was shot at least six times, all to the front of his body. The other four shots heard on the recording could have missed. The man who inadvertently recorded this audio wants to remain anonymous. He lives in one of these apartment buildbuildings, which you can see is very dloes where Michael Brown was shot and killed. He was in his apartment. He was talking to a friend on a video chat. He heard loud noises and at the moment at the time he didnt even realize the import of what he was hearing until afterwards. Reporter the recording could prove critical, should this go to trial. A tool both the prosecution and the defense could use to bolster their case. This has a bearing on really everything else. This is a piece of the puzzle that has to fit. Reporter ted rowlands, cnn, ferguson, missouri. Now again, cnn cannot independently confirm that the shots heard were from the brown shooting, but now the Company Whose video chat service captured the audio has said that it was recorded around the same time as the shooting. Lets listen again. You are pretty. Youre so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could i forget. Cnns don lemon reported from ferguson and he joins me now. This company glide app, they say it was recorded around the time and we know that this guy who recorded this actually does live in that complex. He lives very close to where the shooting actually happened and this glide company says according to them, anderson, 12 02 14 p. M. Central time and thats around the time of the shooting. Cnn had been reporting that it happened shortly after noon so 12 02 would be right after noon. We know the fbi has apparently interviewed this guy. They are also analyzing this recording, we know, and dont know the results of that. But he only recorded 12 seconds. Why is that significant . And you said it right. You said record. Because initially everyone thought it was an interactive chat. Like you and i chatting on face time. He was recording a video to send to her in response to her video. Thats why you hear him say ive been going over some of your videos. So he was recording and only recorded 12 seconds and inadvertently just happened to be recording at the time. And thats why you possibly dont hear that one shot that has been reported about in the car. Remember weve been reporting. Yeah, some eyewitnesses said there was a shot while the officer was still in the vehicle. If that indeed happened, if there was a shot and this is indeed the audio, then that then the recording probably started after that one shot. What do we know about this person . How did this come into this person lives in the neighborhood. Many of our a number of our reporters and producers know who he is. He did not want attention. He was not seeking attention. What happened was we found out about a possible recording the week before, because i think it came out on monday when i was there on monday, we aired it. But the week before we had heard about it but nothing came of it. And so a source called and said have you heard about this audio . I said i have, but we havent been able to track it down and said this is possibly the attorney. I called the attorney, anderson, and got someone on the phone, a secretary, who said she cannot speak right now shes in a meeting. When she called me back, she said i was just meeting with the fbi. How strange that you would call at that same time. So she and her client were both meeting with the fbi when i called about that. And she has appeared on your air and talked to you. She has spoken to me on the air about that. And again, it should be known he was not seeking attention. He was very adamant about not having his he didnt want his voice on there. He didnt want there is video that goes along with the audio. He did not want that on there at all. And because he has an accent, he was worried about people being able to identify him. Fascinating stuff, don, thank you very much. Joining me now are frank piazza, an audio forensic expert and mark omara who represented George Zimmerman and reva martin. Mark, if its confirmed that this is the audio of the shooting of Michael Brown, do you see it bolstering either side, the prosecution or the defense, or do we simply not i mean obviously we dont know any of the forensic evidence. Is it simply too early to tell . Well, a couple of things. I do think its going to be authenticated. It seems to be relevant in time, place and the way it happened. So i think its probably going to get authenticated which means its going to showup in a courtroom. Whats interesting, it sort of sets the audio stage for what happened. I agree with don, it seems as though its missing that first shot that was testified to by dorian, but the other ones i think are fairly significant. Whether or not they help the state or defense, according to what side you want me to take, we have talked about not speculating, but one thing thats interesting about that is the familys autopsy suggested that mike brown was hit six times in the front. If we presume that dorian was right and one of those shots came at the car, then five other shots came to his front, but if they came at the last four, theres not enough shots. Meaning that at least one of those five shots in the front had to come from the first volley. That might indicate that mike brown turned around during the first volley or was at the officer during the first volley. There was an intervening three seconds and then he continues to shoot, including the two fatal shots. So from a defense perspective this could fit in very well. Prosecutor perspective might say, you know, he waited three seconds when he should have done Something Else besides continue to shoot. Reva, what do you think about that threesecond pause between the round of what and to be the shots. How significant is that for you . I think its very significant because, again, we have an unarmed teenager who what weve been hearing from the eyewitnesses, he was defenseless and he was actually surrendering. So when you hear a pause in the gunshots, it makes you think could there have been Something Else this officer may have done to apprehend mike brown rather than continue to shoot after the first six shots weve heard on the audio. Weve heard a lot about the Ferguson Police not having dash cams or body cams. So this is an audio that presumably would be very similar if there had been a dash cam or some other kind of camera in place. So more reliable than eyewitness testimonies, which we know at this point seem to be conflicting. So i think a very important piece of information that hopefully will show up in the grand jury. I want to play the recording again, frank, before i just ask you about it. Do we have that ready to play . Lets just listen. You are pretty. Youre so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How can i forget. Frank, is it possible with the sophisticated equipment that you have and other audio experts have that theres a lot more information on the audio tape, stuff that cannot easily be heard . Well, you know, we spoke earlier about this a couple of days ago. There are three sections that were hearing in the audio. Theres the sound of the male voice. There is the sound of the gunshots or the environment behind it and then theres the sound of the actual room where the microphone and the phone is picking up that environmental sound. And you listen to all those things and you listen for something thats continuous and in the case of what were hearing there, and again im hearing it right now with just an ear piece, there seems to be a consistency in the environment of the room where the person actually speaking into the microphone was. So thats something to Pay Attention to. You said also the other day, and i found it fascinating, is that you can actually kind of get a signature for the ac current thats in the room. Can you explain that again and why thats significant . Sure. Ill give the shortest version i can. Theres a Newer Technology thats been used by some forensic audio professionals thats referred to as enf. Basically what it is, the current, the electrical current is actually giving out a time signature and the electrical grid that exists here in the United States, that can be tracked and mapped. And you can create that same timeline if the electrical power current is picked up within the recorder that made the recording and then do a comparison in a wave form. Its Newer Technology. It definitely can be helpful. Mark, you said the other night that you take issue with recordings like this being released because the effect it can have on other eyewitness testimony. People basically kind of adapting their testimony to what they hear in the media or they hear other witnesses talking about. Heres whats going to happen. Its very normal human behavior. Now that we know and everyone knows who hasnt given their testimony yet that there were ten shots with three seconds in between are going to naturally or maybe intentionally craft that and bring that into their testimony. So i think youll see witnesses start to say when they talk about this event thats what they heard. The other side of the coin is just as important, though. Every witness who has given a statement who has not stated affirmatively there were a number of shots, a pause of a few seconds and a number of other shots, now those witnesses are going to be impeachable potentially because of this new piece of evidence. Thats why getting this out piecemeal is really interfering with the validity maybe or the integrity of the investigation in both sides preparing their case. Areva, which is why its crucial investigators get as quickly as possible and have been getting as quickly as possible to any potential witnesses. Thats why they want to get to those eyewitnesses as quickly as possible before people start to hear what another people in the crowd are saying or other people on television are saying. Absolutely, anderson. Theres some concern already that people are starting to mimic what theyre hearing the other eyewitnesses talk about. But you can hear the people who are lined up for brown and believe this was an excessive shooting saying that theyre concerned that Darren Wilson is hearing all of these accounts and its giving him an opportunity to craft his version of events to fit with the evidence and to fit with his shooting being justified so i think it works for both sides, both the witnesses supporting and those who are opposed. Frank frank, appreciate you being on. Is this the second american militant killed fighting with the extremists in syria. What u. S. Officials are saying about him, next. Shopping online is as easy as it gets. Wouldnt it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple . Thanks to angies list, now it is. Start shopping online from a list of toprated providers. Visit angieslist. Com today. So what were looking for is a way to plus our Accounting Firms mobile plan. And minus our expenses. Perfect timing. Were offering our bestever pricing on mobile plans for business. Run the numbers on that. Well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be. Oneseventyfive a month. Good calculating kyle. Good job kyle. You just made partner. Our bestever pricing on mobile share value plans for business. Now with a 100 bill credit for every business line you add. Great rates for great rides. Geico motorcycle, see how much you could save. Ugh. Heartburn. Did someone say burn . Try alka seltzer reliefchews. They work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. Mmm. Amazing. Yeah, i get that a lot. Alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. Enjoy the relief. You know your dunlike natural teeth. Try new fixodent plus true feel. The smooth formula helps keep dentures in place. Its free of flavors and colorants. For a closer feeling to natural teeth. Fixodent. And forget it. Welcome back. The United States seems close to verifying the identity of the second american killed while fighting for isis in syria. Jim sciutto joins us now. So far we know that a family friend as said that it is indeed him, the pictures that have showed up online. The u. S. Working for final confirmation. Hes also from minnesota, which is the home of douglas mccain. 29 years old. Different from douglas mccain, who was a convert, africanamerican convert. He was a somali american. This has been a problem thats been existing for some time. Somali communities in the u. S. , particularly in minneapolis and also out on the west coast that have been a pipeline not to iraq and syria, but to somalia. In fact the First American who died in a suicide blast was a somali american. Fighting for al shabaab, another Al Qaeda Group there. Now you have somali americans. In fact its believed a dozen somali americans may have been recruited into iraq and syria. Do we know if he and the this other guy, Douglas Macarthur mccain, i cant get over that name, thats an iconic american name, did they die in the same battle . Its believed they fought in the same battle. Its quite a big battle going on over several days. Whats interesting about this battle, its a battle against isis. Douglas mccain, this other American Fighting for isis. The groups fighting against isis is an incredible coalition. It includes the Free Syrian Army, which is the moderate rebel group the u. S. Supports, but also an Al Qaeda Group. But the al nusra front is the one that held theo curtis. Exactly. And theyre all fighting, that entire Group Fighting against Bashar Al Assad. So its just an example of how confusing it is, whose side are you on. This is one of the dilemmas that the Obama Administration is dealing with when they come to the question of military action. Who do you help because youre hurting isis and help the Free Syrian Army but also help Bashar Al Assad. By giving weapons to the Free Syrian Army, do those weapons end up to al nusra or isis. Appreciate the update. When you follow the path of Douglas Macarthur mccain and see his roots in the United States, as jim said, theyre in minnesota. He was friends with another teenager at the time, troy castagar. They both ended up killed far from the minneapolis suburb where they went to high school together. Mccain died recently. Castagar died in 2009 in somalia while fighting for the group al shabaab. Jason carroll sat down with troys mom who is still trying to understand how all this happened. This is the first time shes spoken out on television. Jason joins us now live. So what did she have to say . Well, basically, you know, theres so many questions about why did he make this turn. I mean thats the obvious question. Anderson, the simple answer is she just doesnt know. When she looks back at what happened with her son, she knows that at around age 16 he really started to have problems, had troubles in school. Started to turn to drugs. What he also did was he was looking for spirituality. He was looking for answers. He turned to the koran. I asked her about that when i spoke to her a little earlier this afternoon. And he found comfort in turning to the koran. So then he became muslim. And i dont know exactly how that happened. He had some friends who were muslims. There was some friends who were somali who had immigrated here. But he it was great for him. Like he all of a sudden was like i have my boy back. His eyes were bright again. He was focused. He really was excited about what he was doing about finding meaning. Again, as you can see there from that interview, at one point it turned out to be something positive in his life. But obviously at some point he made that turn to something far more evil. It seems that she also knew Douglas Macarthur mccain who was just killed in syria. He was close with her son. Did she see any warning signs from him, from either of them . They were very close, youre absolutely right about that. She said she remembers doug coming over to the house. They spent a lot of time there together. They played basketball together. They were really basically thick as thieves. And again, when it comes to doug, when it comes to her son, the question is how. How did these two socalled allamerican boys make this turn to a terrorist organization. And we spoke about that as well. Were there any warning signs along the way . With either one of them . With doug for sure there were no warning signs because i just havent been around him for a long time. The one thing that i thought was really strange with troy is that someone, they, were willing to pay for him to come to kenya. I really questioned that. So i think they were manipulated. I dont think they knew what they were fully what they were part of. Anderson, one of the other things i noticed in talking with her was that it was very difficult to speak about her son. I think the reason for that is that shes very conflicted. Obviously she is still mourning. This is a mother mourning for her son, regardless of what he did. But she feels conflicted talking about his death because of the way he died and because of what he did. This is something that she says shes just going to have to live with for the rest of her life. Jason carroll, thank you. Fascinating interview. Joining us now are David Gardenstein ross, and philip mudd, former official with the fbi as well as the cia. Philip, you say once foreign fighters go into syria and iraq, when it comes to getting intelligence on these guys, its almost like theyre going into a hole. Its just virtually impossible. Explain what you mean by that. Most of the folks that go over, we think of them as going over for terrorism and i felt for mrs. Castagar in that interview. I feel like i want to talk to her. I understand her son because i watched 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 kids like this. Theyre going over because theyre inspired to protect innocent women and children. They have been told were obviously having trouble with the satellite. David, what hes saying, though, is interesting. The idea that they may not know the full ramifications of what theyre doing. Although i find that hard to believe, given, you know, all the videos that are out there on youtube. If you know youre going to go sign up with al shabaab in somalia, i would think youd have a pretty good idea what that means, no . Shabaab had an interesting trajectory. Initially when people were being recruited oft minneapolis st. Paul area, there was an overlap between its predecessors which is a bit more moderate than shabaab and then shabaab really stepped to the fore. The views with the community ended up shifting. This is a tremendous counterterrorism success because what philip mudd talked about, those idealistic reasons really pervaded but over time when members of the community saw their sons going over and fighting and dying, sometimes killed by shabaab and they saw the First American suicide bomber, a graduate of roosevelt high school, you had the community really turn against the shabaab recruiting networks, which like i said its a real success in terms of drying up what was once a very fertile pool of recruits. Phil, and youre back, setting aside somalia, i mean can somebody who now goes to fight for isis, they cant claim they dont know what theyre getting into, can they . Anderson, i dont agree with that. I think what were misunderstanding is the psychology of the youth that i follow. Remember, these kids often are 17, 18 or 19 years old. As troys mom mentioned, they are looking for an anchor, they are looking for an answer. Theyre brought in by people who are inspiring them to believe that theyre fighting for the cause of right to protect women and children in the face of an onslaught by Bashar Al Assad who is killing innocents. I dont believe, and i absolutely agree with david, that community in minneapolis changed. When i was in the bureau and testified on the minneapolis problem, i had family members call me and they were appalled about what had happened to their children, how their children had been warped to believe, by a child im talking about 17, 18yearold, that they were going to fight for the cause of right in somalia and theyre actually going to join a terrorist organization. I still think there are kids who are going to believe im going im going out there to fight for a good cause. David, are there recruiting networks that we know about in minneapolis, and in other parts of the United States, that funnel these kids overseas . Yeah, i believe that there are. We know for a fact there were recruiting networks in the case of shabaab. There were people who were funneling recruits over there and troys mother refers to that when she talks about how there were people that would pay for his way to get over to kenya. Getting over to somalia and liasing with shabaab is not an easy thing. There are multiple testimonies from members of the community that attest to this. I think that the same thing is now going on with syria. Its a little bit more shadowy, at least on the open source side. You dont have indictments handed down about these recruiting networks, but i believe that theyre there. Theres some testimony related to people from europe who have gone over to syria that strongly suggest that recruiting networks are in place and helping people who get to Southern Turkey to liase with jihadist groups and other groups in syria. Appreciate you both being on. You can find out more on cnn. Com. Just ahead tonight in this hour, on the very same day that isis says its executing hundreds of kurdish soldiers in iraq and the video is just gruesome, lined them up, shot him, president obama says he doesnt have a strategy yet for going after isis in syria, where it has its home base. Mentoring tomorrows innovators. We build it raising roofs, preserving habitats and serving americas veterans. Every day, thousands of boeing volunteers help make their communities the best they can be. Building Something Better for all of us. [ dog barks ] [ male announcer ] imagine the cars we drive. Being able to see so clearly. To respond so intelligently and so quickly, they can help protect us from a world of unseen danger. Its the stuff of science fiction. Minus the fiction. And it is mercedesbenz. Today. See your authorized dealer for exceptional offers through mercedesbenz financial services. Welcome back. Isis said today its executed at least 250 syrian soldiers at an air base in the northeastern city. It also posted a video which shows captured kurdish soldiers in iraq wearing orange jump suits just like the one journalist jim foley was wearing when he was beheaded. The video shows three masked men appearing to decapitate a man in front of a mosque in mosul. Cnn cannot independently verify the claims or authenticity of the video. Theres a lot of reports that has been building that the u. S. May soon go after isis with air strikes in searia, the terror groups home base. Today president obama flat out said he doesnt have a solid plan on that yet. As i said, rooting out a cancer like isil will not be quick or easy, but im confident that we can and we will working closy with our allies and our partners. I do think it will be important for congress to weigh in or that our consultations with congress continue to develop so that the American People are part of the debate. But i dont want to put the cart before the horse. We dont have a strategy yet. The white house later made a point of saying that president obama was only talking about a potential military plan for syria, not his overall strategy for isis, which they said they do have. Senior White House Correspondent jim acosta joins me now. Certainly the president was looking to tamp down, you know, reporting that air strikes in syria were imminent but he inadvertently created more of a controversy. Thats right, anderson. The president was indeed trying to end the speculation that he was on the verge of ordering air strikes on isis targets in syria. One white house official told me they thought the speculation was getting out of control, and it was in that context that the president used those words we dont have a strategy yet. As we all know in this age of social media, a poorly phrased sound bite can go viral instantly and thats exactly what happened. So the white house jumped into damage control mode instantly and josh earnest, the press secretary, went on wolf blitzer later basically within an hour after the president wrapped up his remarks in the Briefing Room and said the president was referring to his strategy on isis in sear yachlt the white house argues the president has an overall strategy for isis but they are sending secretary of state john kerry to the region after the nato summit next week. Anderson, it sort of reminds me of covering the 2012 president ial campaign when the president said you didnt build that when he said the private sector is doing fine. You know, you take those sound bites in the context that theyre in and sometimes they can be in the eye of the beholder and it was one of those days where a poorly phrased sound bite just blew up in his face. Also ukraine was talked about. Stern words yet again for Vladimir Putin, but what is the administration prepared to do to stop him . It seems like theyre talking about potentially again more sanctions. Thats right. The president chose his words carefully. He did not call russias apparent military activity in ukraine an invasion, but instead a continuation of whats been happening over the past several months. The president did pretty clearly say as you mentioned, anderson, that more sanctions are on the way and that will be one of the big topics when the president meets with nato next week. The president also reiterated he does not see a u. S. Military solution for the crisis in ukraine. However, speaking of nato, the president warned russia not to mettle with member nations like astonia where the president will visit next week before going on to nato in wales. Other small countries that are in the Nato Alliance in eastern europe. The president is making it clear and he said it today that he holds that part of the nato contract with these member nations sacred, that if a nato country is invaded, the u. S. Is bound by that partnership to intervene militarily, so the president did offer that stern warning to Vladimir Putin today. Jim acosta, thanks from the white house. Isis has taken control of cities, oil fields, military bases in iraq and syria. Whether its going to be able to hold on to them and actually govern the areas that it now controls is a question that remains open. Ben hubbard of the New York Times joins me tonight. Ben, you wrote a fascinating piece for the times and the thing that struck me is how organized isis is. Theres a management structure, there are departments. Its really remarkable. Yeah, i mean i think the reason that we wanted to work on this topic was there seemed to be a very big disconnect between what we see in isis very aggressive social media campaigns which tends to be lots of young, excited men with guns driving around and carrying out various types of may hem, but at the same time we have noticed that the results of what these guys do is very, very effective. They have military strategies, they have base of making money. Its obviously not these fighters were seeing in the videos who are making the decisions and so thats why we dove into this project and discovered that theres this group of roughly two dozen middleaged iraqi men who have sort of a very mixed background but have come together and created this structure. These guys have a lot of experience, they have been doing this for over a decade. They have lots of experience fighting against American Forces and perfecting their techniques there. I think that the bigger surprise was about a third of the top leaders in isis are actually former trained military officers from the days of saddam hussein. So these are guys that have brought something that most other terrorist organizations have not had at their disposal, which is people that really have an understanding of military tactics and not just insurgency tactics. The fact that they are part army and are in some ways fighting a conventional, you know, force with technicals, fastmoving vehicles and increased weaponry that they have gotten, it makes it somewhat easier for the United States through an air campaign to try to at least whittle down their forces. My guess is that if the United States did decide to get much more heavily involved, theyre going to run into the same problems that they have had in fighting this kind of force before. Obviously the United States is the greatest military power that the world has ever known. If they wanted to destroy you know, if they wanted to wield great military might against isis, this would not be a very difficult thing to do. Its just that the background of isis also has a lot to do with the social context in which theyre operating. This is a group thats found a decent amount of support. Maybe not for all of its tactics but for its ability to fight against the iraqi state. And american air strikes are not going to fix that. The only thing thats going to be a luongterm solution is goig to be restoring some kind of governance to these areas so that the local populations are not going to want these guys in their areas and also political systems that are going to build their own militaries and their own forces that can face up to this threat. You also report that of the 25 deputies that isis has across iraq and across syria, nearly all of them have been imprisoned by American Forces in the past. Right. This was another big surprise. A number of the analysts that weve talked to who have studied isis structure have said that this is a deliberate choice by the leader of isis, who considers himself of the worlds muslims, but he has chosen to rely on people that he has very tight personal bonds with. So this is one way that the organization remains cohesive over the large amount of territory that it covers right now. And its probably a good chance this played a role in these peoples radicalization as well. The time being spent in the prisons and then being released from the prisons. Which weve seen with a lot of islamists becoming radicalized or more in the time they were in prison. Ben hubbard, appreciate you being on. Thanks, ben. Thank you very much. Up next tonight, hes no hero. A captain for the usc Football Team is suspended indefinitely after admitting to lying about how he injured his ankles. He never saved a drowning nephew, as he claimed. So how did he get hurt and why do police want to talk to him about it . New developments on that ahead. So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . Even if youre healthy and active. Phillips Digestive Health support is a duoprobiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. Im doubly impressed phillips Digestive Health. A daily probiotic. This is the first power plant in the country to combine solar and natural gas at the same location. During the day, we generate as much electricity as we can using solar. At night and when its cloudy, we use more natural gas. This ensures we can produce Clean Electricity whenever our customers need it. Well, its an incredible story. A College Football player sprains both his ankles jumping from a balcony into a pool to save his nephew from drowning. Thats what josh shaw told his coach, a great story. But it turned out it was a lie. It wasnt true. The team captain confessed and is benched indefinitely. So how did he sprain his ankles . Sara sidner reports. Reporter josh shaw was already considered a leader on the field. Now he was suddenly a hero off of it. Just days ago shaw said he rescued his 7yearold nephew from drowning, forced to jump from a secondfloor balcony to get to the boy in time. In the process, he injured both ankles after hitting the concrete. He told the University Website i would do it again for whatever kid it was. It did not have to be my nephew. Shaw told uscs website. My ankle its really hurt, but im lucky to be surrounded by the best trainers and doctors in the world. I am taking my rehab one day at the same time at a time and i hope to be back on the field as soon as possible. Who would doubt him . Although i play in front of 90,000 fans on the field, i am much more nervous today. Reporter shaw was a highly regarded student at usc. In may he was asked to give this commencement speech to his fellow graduates. He was also chosen as team captain for his final year. When i was first asked to be a speaker at todays commencement ceremony, i was truly humbled, honored and overwhelmed with joy. Reporter but questions started surfacing this week about shaws story about his nephew. Head coach Steve Sarkisian was pressed for clarification. Its pretty clear theres quite a bit theres quite a few conflicting stories out there. Any information that weve been provided up to this point weve pushed along to campus authorities. Were really going to let it play out in their hands up into this point and quite honestly were in somewhat of a Holding Pattern so thats where were at. Reporter then late yesterday there was this. A Statement Released through his attorney. On saturday, august 23rd, 2014, i injured myself in a fall. I made up a story about this fall that was untrue. I was wrong to not tell the truth. I apologize to usc for this action on my part. While shaw admitted his story was a lie, the Los Angeles Police Department Tells us there was a burglary at the apartment complex where shaws girlfriend lives, and they say they have interviewed his girlfriend, but shaw is not a suspect in the case. Obviously we thought very highly of him. He spoke at our commencement this past spring. So when he came to the story with us, i didnt have a reason not to believe this guy. I think thats where the level of disappointment kicks in. Reporter a disappointment with significant repercussions. Shaw has been suspended from the team indefinitely. Sara sidner, cnn, los angeles. The whole issue of lying is really fascinating. Why people make up, especially big lies. Joining me now is dan arielli, professor of psychology and behavioral economics at Duke University and author of the hoppest truth aboutonestydishon dan, what do you make about this . He made up a lie about saving his drowning 7yearold nephew . Thats a good story. No. So heres how i view it. You know, i havent talked to him and i dont know the story in great details, but if i try to generalize whats going on, i would say there are three elements here. The first element is what we think about gains versus losses. The second one had to do with selfdeception and the third one has to do with how our lies impact other people. In this case, i mean he injured his ankles and he was going to be out probably for the season and so he had to come up with an explanation i assume for why he was not going to be able to play football . Thats right. So it wasnt that here was a guy who wanted to become a hero and he kept on thinking by the way, it was not a thoughtful lie. If he really wanted to plan something, he should have really thought about it better but he came up with something at the spur of the moment to protect himself. He probably wanted to basically portray something that would not make people think hes stupid and, therefore, they are losing this valuable player for no good reason. The second thing has to do with selfdeception. Selfdeception is just fascinating. Its about our ability to convince ourself that weve done something that we havent done. And we all have this capacity and its really amazing. Ill tell you a story about how we study this. So we give people a test and they have the test and for half of them we give them the answers on the bottom. So as you do the test, you can look at the bottom and see if you actually got it and you can basically trick yourself into believing that you knew the right answers. And then when people finish doing it, we give them another test and we say, hey, this test, here it is, have a look at it. Its clear that it doesnt have the answers at the bottom. And we say how do you think you will do in this task . When people do the first task and they cheat, they should know that the reason that they got so much money and solved so many problems is because they cheated. But they forget about it very quickly. So people are deceiving themselves. They quickly buy into the lie . Thats right. Oh, im so good at this. Im a real good test taker. Look at me, i did so well the last time, completely discounting that they lied. And i think this guy probably started telling this story at some point and maybe told it even in colorful ways and it stuck into his mind. I dont think he 100 believed in it but he started believing it to a higher degree. Do you think people are being too harsh on this guy . I know you say basically everybody lies to one degree or another. People are very harsh on him. Like the reporters saying, people saying i cant believe hes saying that. In some sense i think were too harsh, in some sense i think were not harsh enough. He is a public figure in many ways. Admirable in all kinds of aspects. From that perspective if we did not punish him harshly it could create a really bad signal to the people around him. A new understanding of what is acceptable and not acceptable. So from that perspective, i think we have to be very harsh because if were not, were really sending very bad signal to other people. Thats really fascinating. When i was a kid i always thought if i was going to lie, i should just lie big and make it such an outrageous lie that people would either think im either a psychopath or it must be true. Hows that . Would that hold up . Im not sure you want to be considered a psychopath. But it is interesting that sometimes people lie in a very big way for it to both be a lie but not be perceived as a lie, right . So most lies are actually things that we hope that the other people would not question. Maybe im lying that big because im a psychopath after all. I dont think so. But heres a question for you. We give people a task and its a die. You throw it and before you throw it i say, hey, think about whether you want to get paid on whats the tom or whats the bottom. So if its 6 1, if you said top you get 6, if you get bottom, you get 1. Think about what you want, top or bottom and dont tell me. Then you roll the die and lets say it comes with 5 on the top and 2 on the bottom. I say what did you think, top or bottom . Now, if you thought top, you say top and get 5. If you thought bottom, you have a question. Do you say the truth and say bottom and get 2 or do you lie and say top and get 5. We get people to do this about 20 times. On those 20 times, we can basically find out if people are lying or not lying. Really . What we find, like much of our research, is that lots of people lie a little bit. Wow, its really fascinating. Dan, thank you so much for being on. Fascinating stuff. As always, a pleasure to be here. All right. Up next, comedian joan rivers was rushed to a hospital after she stopped breathing during surgery. Ill have the latest on her condition ahead. Big day . Ah, the usual. Moved some new cars. Hauled a bunch of steel. Kept the supermarket shelves stocked. Made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. Whats up for the next shift . Ah, nothing much. Just keeping the lights on. laugh nice. Doing the big things that move an economy. See you tomorrow, mac. See you tomorrow, sam. Just another day at norfolk southern. When i had my first migraine, i was lucky. That sounds crazy, i know. But my mom got migraines, so she knew this would help. Excedrin migraine starts to relieve my pain in 30 minutes. Plus, sensitivity to light and sound, even nausea. Excedrin migraine works. Our new flatbread sandwiches may be flat. The flavors, are anything but. So whether its taste inspired by the freshness of the mediterranean. Or the smoky spice of the southwest. 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Beauty is bone deep. For over 19 million people. [ mom ] with life insurance, were not just insuring our lives. Were helping protect his. [ female announcer ] everyone has a moment when tomorrow becomes real. Transamerica. Transform tomorrow. Welcome back. Legendary comedian joan rivers is hospitalized tonight. The 81yearold was rushed to new yorks mt. Sinai hospital after she stopped breathing during throat surgery at an outpatient facility. Cnns Alexander Field joins us from the hospital with more. What do we know about her condition . Reporter hey, anderson. We know that she came here in critical condition. That surgery was being performed at a nearby clinic. Thats when joan rivers stopped breathing of the the Fire Department here said they responded from a patient suffering rez tore and cardiac arrest. Mt. Sinai is only saying they are attending to joan rivers. Theyll give an update on they are condition when they have one. They have added a statement from her family just thanking fans for the outpouring of love and support. This news is upsetting to so many people because at 81 years old joan rivers is still very much at the height of her career, hosting a weekly show on the e network. That network also putting out statements today saying that joan, while in critical condition, is now in stable but critical condition. Theyre also saying that that surgery that was being performed on her throat had to do with her vocal cords, anderson. She still does standup comedy late at night in comedy clubs. I understand her daughter flew to new york to be with her . Yes, she was performing last night. Her daughter lives in los angeles. We know that melissa and melissas son left los angeles this morning, came to new york and they were making their way here to the hospital to be with joan rivers tonight. Joan and melissa part of a reality tv show, so joan has been in the industry for decades. Is still very much a prolific comedian. We wish her the best. Thanks very much. Well be right back with another live hour of 360 and what president obama said about how he is approaching the situation. To help reduce the risk of another one. What president obama said about how he is approaching the situation. President obama said about how he is approaching the situation. President obama said about how he is approaching the situation. President obama said about how he is approaching the situation. T president obama said about how he is approaching the situation. What president obama said about how he is approaching the situation. In what president obama said about how he is approaching the situation. What president obama said about how he is approaching the situation. S what president obama said about how he is approaching the situation. Y what president obam about how he is approaching the situation. R what president obam about how he is approaching the situation. I what president obam about how he is approaching the situation. A what president obam about how he is approaching thed about hon what preside the situation. W good evening, thanks for joining us for this extended 360 edition. A lot to get to this hour starting with a frank admission from president obama. He flat out said he doesnt have a plan yet to go after isis in syria, its home base. Heres how he put it. I have consulted with congress throughout this process. I am confident that as commander in chief i have the authorities the engage in the acts that we are conducting currently. As our strategy develops, we will continue to consult with congress and i do think it will be important for congress to weigh in and or that our consultations with congress continue to develop so that the American People are part of the debate. But i dont want to put the cart before the horse. We dont have a strategy yet. No strategy yet, even though just today isis said its executed at least 250 syrian soldiers at an air base in a northeastern city in syria. Well have much more on that claim in a moment. The ter g