0 special edition of "out front." we're going to be live tonight with a special edition, at 11:00 p.m., we'll be out front, grover norquist, john avalon, they will with me. meanwhile, our coverage continues with wolf blitzer. erin thank you, as the shutdown gets closer, hard line republicans once again pushing legislation, voting on it just moments from now that funds the government but delays implementation of health care reform. a bill the senate won't pass and the president won't sign. at the same time, moderate republicans, many of whom also oppose the health care law staging a party rebellion against tactics they see as bad policy and worse politics. but right now, those voices are not, repeat, not carrying the day. others are, and late today president obama singled them out. >> but one faction of one party in one house of congress in one branch of government doesn't get to shut down the entire government just to re-fight the results of an election. keeping the people's government open is not a concession to me. keeping vital services running and hundreds of thousands of americans on the job is not something you give to the other side. it is our basic responsibility. >> the president drawing a line, conservative republicans also drawing a line saying that is what they were elected to do. the shutdown, four hours away with hundreds of thousands of americans facing furlough, others working without pay, still more losing some vital federal services. a lot to talk about, let's go to dana bash, she has the breaking news up here from capitol hill. what is the latest, dana. >> reporter: well, i'm just a few feet from the house flow where we expect them to vote, maybe in the next 15 minutes on the republican plan which is to fund the government but with strings attached. the strings in this case will be to delay the individual mandate for a year, and also to put lawmakers in a tough position and their staff, as well, by taking away the federal subsidy for their health care. and basically saying that we should be like everybody else. we shouldn't get any special treatment. it may make some republicans and even some democrats, make it difficult for them to vote against, and that is the entire point here. after that vote, which we assume will pass, it is going to go back to the senate, which is right down the hall behind me. and we expect the senate, the democrats, to reject this, which is the first of two attempts to chip away at the bill by house republicans to fund the bill. so one thing you mentioned earlier was some moderate republicans did try to stage a revolt, to say enough already. we don't even want to go down this bill. we want to pass a bill that simply funds the government, nothing else. and i had one of the people that tried to do that and actually did vote against a procedural movement that tried to stop this from moving. peter king, why were you unsuccessful? you only needed 17 votes to stop it. and you had even a handful. >> yeah, there was probably 20 who would have or could have voted our way. there are two things involved. one was, the speaker did make appeals to them. and there was no pressure, i was there when he talked to them. basically a vote of confidence for him so he can follow this process through. and another thing, they were concerned this would be not a vote to keep the government open, but a vote against their staff members. >> now, take us behind the scenes, into the conversations when the speaker of the house is talking to you and some of the other moderates who could have blown this whole plan up, and how he convinces you to stick with him. >> well, he was more persuasive with the others than me, no, basically, he is a good friend, he said he had faith in them. he understands the pressure we had, he understood the frustration but let him play this out. and pretty much assured us this would work out. he didn't say how or why, but he is one person, john boehner is one person who can fall back on personal friendships and relationships he has. >> explain why you wanted to do this, you know, most of your republican colleagues clearly signed onto this plan to give it at least one more shot, knowing that the clock is going to strike midnight in just a few hours. and that the government will shut down. why did you want to buck your party and try to stop this train? >> yeah, i didn't enjoy bucking the party, i wanted to end this process because it is going nowhere. it is a dead end. we said two weeks ago, the party leadership said we didn't want to get into this whole thing, the shut the government down, they got into this whole ted cruz wing of the party, people who are more loyal than what the leadership wanted. people who wanted loyalty on this for themselves. and then i voted for the last several times to send it to the senate because i was assured this was a way to get the process going and ultimately the government wouldn't shut down. when i saw the government was going to shut down in ten hours, i would have voted no matter -- >> you said you voted against your own position. >> that was to get the process moving, get it over into the senate and have the senate act and get it back to us. i don't think i was misled. i think the situation has been somewhat lost control of. the ted cruz people are not going to back down and basically are trying to hijack the party. >> final question, yes or no, will the government shut down tomorrow? >> yes, i think it will, i think we'll see several votes going on, one in about 15 or 20 minutes, one sometime after midnight. another one after that, but maybe when it is out of their system, they will realize we can't just sit here with the government shut down. it is a foolish errand, i understand the position the speaker is in. i can never forgive ted cruz and the people who stood with him. the people who are asking for loyalty from the speakers and others are the ones that voted against him on every issue in the last two years. >> all right, back to you, wolf. all right, the speaker of the house, john boehner is on the floor, he is speaking right now, let's listen in. >> well, i would say to the president, this is not about me and not about republicans here in congress. it is about fairness for the american people. why don't we make sure that every american is treated just like we are? but no, under the law there is in some decision, there is this idea that we're going to get some exemption. no, we're not going to get an exemption. so the bill before us is very simple. it funds the government. and it says let's treat our constituents fairly. no more mandate for the next year that you have to buy insurance that you can't afford. no more mandate that members of congress get some so-called exemption. those are the only two issues here. all the senate has to do is say yes, and the government is funded tomorrow. let's listen to our constituents, and let's treat them the way we would want to be treated. i yield back. >> time for the gentleman has expired. >> well, no breakthrough there. this is clearly setting the stage for midnight, only a few hours from now, a government shutdown since the president has made it clear, and the democrats in the senate made it clear they are not going to accept these two conditions that the speaker has just put forward. we'll go back to the senate, presumably come back to the house one more time. this is as we heard, peter king, going back and forth, the volley ball, ping pong, and john culverson of texas is joining us. is that what we expect, all night to take to pass legislation that we know is not going to be accepted in the senate? the senate sends it back and the government will shut down after midnight or shortly there after? is that what the american people can expect tonight? >> wolf, we don't know the senate wouldn't accept it. we're standing on principle. and as the speaker just said so well we expect all the americans to be treated equally. this language, which is now the third version of the bill we sent to the senate simply says that congressmen are going to be treated the same as everybody else. there are no exceptions for any of us, and the individual mandate will be delayed for a year. remember, we started completely, totally de-funding obama care, that was rejected. and we offered a second compromise to delay it for a year. they didn't even bring it up. harry reid did the gutless choice and tabled it without even a vote. and so now we're offered a third alternative, in the democratic process, it is fundamental, you have to talk, you have to compromise, the president will talk to the dictator in iran? i represent 600,000 texans who don't want any part of obama care and frankly just stopping the individual mandate for a year, we want to get rid of all of it. but we're trying to compromise. >> you heard the president, harry reid, the democrats in the senate saying we're not going to accept any delay in implementing what is called the individual mandate that forces people to go out there to purchase health insurance when they can afford it. they're not going to budge, here is the question, congressman, assuming they don't budge, will you allow the government to shut down at midnight? >> our absolute right to privacy is being violated by obama care, the most massive expansion of the government in our history. this is of vital importance to my constituents and i. my job description as a representative, the only way you're out-numbered in a fight is to stick together, i will stand with my district and do everything i can to delay, de-fund or stop obama care. >> well, what happens if it goes back and forth another time or two times 3 or 4:00 in the morning, it is 5:00 in the morning, and peter king and the more moderate republicans say enough is enough. and 20 or 30 of them decide to join with the democrats and at least keep the government funded for a few more weeks. i -- you'll vote against it as a matter of principle, but do you see where this potentially could be going? >> well, i can't worry about what others will do. i know for myself as a texan, as somebody who loves liberty and as someone as a representative of my district, i will stand firm. i will not blink because i was elected to represent my constituents and protect our most important constitutional right, which is to be left alone. and i'm not -- i don't know what others are doing, wolf, but i'm not blinking or flinching. >> okay, congressman culverson of texas. let's point to elijah cummings of maryland joining us right now. so what do you think, congressman? is there any give on the democratic side as far as this individual mandate is concerned that would allow the government to stay open? >> absolutely not. wolf, we have a situation where the republican party has allowed a small minority, the tea party republicans, to basically hijack not only in whole hostage, not only the republican party but the congress and the country. keep in mind wolf, this is a law, the affordable care act is a law that has been passed, signed into law and then affirmed by the supreme court of the united states. and i was listening to my good friend culverson as he talked about texas. in texas, one thing he doesn't mention is one out of four people there don't have insurance. and so what the republicans are asking us to do is tell folks to be denied something that they have already been granted by the congress. an opportunity to get insurance, to get well and to stay well. and they want to delay that for a year, while we extend the government, the cr, for a month or two. come on, now, we're better than that. >> so what is going to happen, congressman assuming the -- hold on a second, assuming the speaker holds firm and continues to insist on at least some modification of obama care and the democrats and the senate refuse. there are going to be hundreds of thousands of people lose iin their job. >> unfortunately, the government will shut down. and that is very unfortunate. but the fact is, is that i think we're on very solid ground. we're doing the responsible thing. these folks -- our republican colleagues could not get what they wanted through the legislative process, and now they're trying to do -- do it another way. and what they're trying to do is simply unfair to the american people, period. >> would it make sense, congressman, even at this late moment, and you have a few hours and then you have all night, basically, the government is not supposed to reopen until early tomorrow morning, for the president of the united states to invite the speaker of the house, the republican leader in the senate. the democratic leaders. come over to the white house, we're all adults. there is a lot at stake right now. let's try, as difficult as it is, to work this out. >> well, you know, you got to keep in mind, wolf, that i am ranking member of the government reform and oversight committee. and i have seen over and over again how this president has done everything in his power to reach out to the republican party. and every time they basically slap his hand and say my way or the highway. wolf, i don't care what kind of relationship it is, you and your wife or you and your son or daughter, if you have one person saying my way or the highway, it doesn't work. and so i think the president has done what he can do. now it is up to the republicans. keep in mind, wolf, if they simply put a clean bill on the floor, that is one without all of these writers and with an up and down vote on the cr, it would pass in a minute. but they don't want that. they do not want that. they want to shut the government down. i am convinced. and wolf, i have to tell you, it pains me to be able to say that but it hurts. but that is what i believe. and it is very unfortunate. >> if the government shuts down there will be a lot of pain across the country. >> and particularly in my own district. >> you have a lot of federal workers. >> that is exactly right who work in suburban washington. all right, congressman. >> but we have to stand up for this. but let me tell you, if we let them get away with this, heaven knows what will happen the next time. >> it could be in a couple of weeks when you have to raise the debt ceiling, the economic ramifications are even more enormous as far as that, regarding if the government shut down happens. >> and they expect us to give into their demands which are extremely unreasonable and extremely unfair. >> all right, congressman elijah cummings, as usual, thank you for coming in. bringing in the panel now, let's discuss what we just heard. alice stewart joins us, a contender for michelle bachmann's campaign, also former newt gingrich spokesperson, rich galen, and obama 2012 pollster. you know where they stand in the senate, you know where the president stands, can they pass something and at least keep the government running without any strings attached for a week or two while maybe cooler heads could then prevail? >> well, there is a reasonable way out of this, is to pass what the senate has tried before. is to pass a measure that funds the government, but also executes what the will of the people is, and spare them from the devastating effects of obama care. >> the house passed that. but the senate, 40 times, has rejected that. >> right, well, here is the thing. i agree with what representative cummings said. obama care has passed and was signed by the president. and has been ratified by the supreme court. but since then, the president took it upon himself to delay the employer mandate, and under what rationale can he do that, for those who fall under the employer mandate, but not the individual mandate, and also for those who are members of congress and employees. so the people, they're simply trying to level the playing field, make it fair for everybody. that is what speaker boehner said, they want to fund obama care, and delay certain aspects of obama care because it simply is not ready for prime time. >> they have started the vote on the floor right now, the legislation that would delay the individual mandate, purchasing the health insurance through the exchanges. cornell, go ahead and respond. why not go ahead and accept this latest request from the house of representatives in order to prevent a government shutdown? if the employer mandate has been delayed by the president a year, why not delay the individual mandate? >> you know, it is not often i feel sorry for my republican friends. but you know, they have to carry this trash and try to spin it, is mind boggling. look, this is embarrassing, every american should be embarrassed. we're not acting like the leading democracy, this is more on how a banana republic would behave. don't take it for me, it was said two days ago, elections have consequences. president obama won the election, this has been settled. this is not about what the american people want. 70% of the americans don't want that. >> cornell, those are fair points. but if the president delayed the employer mandate for a year requiring employers to delay giving insurance, why not allow the individual mandate, which is on the house floor. they're voting on that right now, to be delayed, as well. >> wolf, this is not about sort of fairness, this is about them trying to kill the aca. it is clear, they don't want the obama care to happen. so this is not about fairness. it is not about fairness at all. it is sort of ridiculous what they're trying and try to spin it as fairness. look, the american people spoke, obama got elected, and the senate democrats picked up seats and house democrats picked up seats. that should be an issue that they're holding americans hostages over. >> all right, rich, you worked for the former speaker, newt gingrich, now the host of "cross fire." how is this going to end? >> you know, if i were to bet now, i saw you this afternoon, you had a bit of optimism. and i nodded when you said that because i did, too. although i can't see the clock right now and think we're losing our edge. i think it will go to shutdown, for some hours or days. i don't think it will be devastating economically, the world will spin on its axis, you may not be able to go to yosemite. and the president talked about how it injures cute baby kittens and republicans. but the fact is, the republicans missed their chance, they had an opportunity to do it in 2010 and 11 when they took control of the congress. and both sides, the republican controlled house and the democrat controlled senate have failed in their duty to pass a single appropriations bill. if all of the appropriations bill had gone through in what is called regular order, we wouldn't be having this discussion because they wouldn't need a cr. not a single bill has been passed by the united states senate and only four in the house. so if you want to look for people to blame in getting us in this, the leadership in the house and senate is not a bad place to start. >> well, ask rich how come they're not passing anything in the senate? is because they're filibustering everything. ask him how come they're not passing anything out of the senate? it is not because the senate democrats aren't trying to pass anything, they're being filibustered? >> they're not passing anything because harry reid dug his feet in the ground and said he is not going to budge. part of being a great democracy is coming together and having a bipartisan consensus, here we are, executing the great democracy we are. this is absurd and starts at the top with president obama and harry reid and starts with everybody in leadership positions. this should have been hashed out a long time ago because the american people don't want to shut down the government. and they don't want to continue with the affordable care act, because they don't want it to be implemented. if they do it for certain americans they should do it for everything. >> two things, so mitch mcconnell is not blocking it with a filibuster that democrats tried to put up. the other thing, if you have 70% of people saying they want this, there is no sort of majority consistency you have for the republicans' position. this gets interesting when we move to the mid-term elections when they have to face the wrath of the american people. >> and we accept this, this is your lane, cornell, i understand that. these are national polls, and the 25% of hard core tea parties are not running it nationally, i guarantee you, he is not going to be in trouble for supporting this. i'm not agreeing with him, i am saying that is why they're doing it. >> hold on. >> 25% has control of the house -- >> we got to wrap it up. a lot of these districts, you're right, they have been gerrymandering -- all right, good discussion, appreciate it very much. once again, the house vote is under way right now. about nine minutes left. we'll break in with the results, coming up shortly. you can see the roll call, but up next, what do the americans think of the game of political chicken under way here on capitol hill right now? the polling may not surprise you but could take your breath away. our own john king, and david gergen, as well. lots up on capitol hill in washington. in the nation, we know how you feel about your car.
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