have and sac on the ground there. it's not something you defer to washington. i think what they realized probably fairly on is who this guy was and he was unstable. let's not forget the fbi would prefer not to kill anybody because a hostage rescue can never be 100% assured. you just don't know what's going on. the hostages could be moved at the last second before they go in. if they're using flash bang grenades and he's moved to a different room and he hasn't been stunned, he could kill all the hostages, which is the last thing the s.w.a.t. teams want. so i think they were probably getting very nervous toward the end, and they could have outwaited this guy until he -- as amazing as it sounds, until he fell asleep. but they decided he was so unstable they had to go in and use weapons. >> we heard the fbi say it's very likely this situation would have ended badly if not for the skills of negotiators.