is this lack of command and control over some of the information that the white house needs in order to push back. >> shulman did say he can't remember ever talking about the political group -- if someone asked me if i was somewhere 157 times and i wasn't i would have known the answer and given it or at least elaborate onondaga it. and during that time. here we are a week later still getting -- arguing about tnchs i know you have something to say about this. the white house pushing back very hard today on this 157 number. >> yes. well, a couple facts here which i think are important for us to stick by. number one the only reason we know about these visits is because the president makes everything public. number two, what we're really looking at, some of these visits. >> the visitor logs are public. >> yes. the only president in history to do that. >> fair enough. >> what we're looking at are the number of times mr. shulman was cleared into the white house. it doesn't necessarily mean he went to a meeting. number three, many of those meetings were for health care implementation. i was in them with him.
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