Transcripts For CNN Reliable Sources 20101114

and "newsweek" owner sidney harmon will be here as well. he's been off the media radar for two years, a rare disappearing after leaving the white house. but this week a television blitz for his memoir. how did matt lauer and oprah winfrey handle those interviews? conan makes his cable debut, but what went on with his battle with jay leno and nbc? we'll talk to bill cotter. howard kurtz here, and this is "reliable sources." it's no secret that "newsweek" at the ripe old age of 77 is in difficult shape when businessman sidney harmon bought the money-losing magazine from "the washington post" company over the summer, hi paid only a dollar plus the assumptions of millions in liabilities. most of his journalistic stars have left in recent months. now a new editor in chief under a deal announced on friday. the onetime editor of "vanity fair" and the new yorker, brown runs a 2-year-old news and commentary sweb site called "the daily beast," where i now work. in a marriage of old and new media, "newsweek" and the beast with merging into a combined company that's been jokingly called news beast. can they rescue the money-losing magazine? tina brown joins us. and from los angeles sidney harmon, who waited 92 years to get into the media business. tina brown, i'll start with you. "newsweek" is a somewhat damaged brand, lost $40 million last year and most of its big-name writers have left. how are you going to revive it? >> well, i regard "newsweek" as a fantastic, legendary brand, and i have this tremendous weakness for fantastic legendary brands, as you know, with, you know, "vanity fair" and "the new yorker," and the dna of that magazine of "newsweek" is a great one. and i'm very excited about it because i think that with the adrenaline and news metabolism of the daily beast joining forces with "newsweek's" terrific deep culture of news and quality, it's a great combination. and the two things are going to animate each other. >> now, most magazine, as we know, are edited by men. are you going to try, when you take over, to lure more female readers to "newsweek"? >> well, i'm very excited about that, i have to say. you know, in the 1970s, the women of "newsweek" actually launched a lawsuit against the management. >> i read that. >> headed by the great laurel nor holmes norton, where they actually said they had to do something about the fact that women were actually barred really from the writing and editorial process. of course this is a little bit of a sweet revenge. at "the daily beast," we've brought a tremendous amount of new women, op-ed writer, if you like, and we will be getting a lot of great women at "newsweek," a lot of great men, too, but the dna will slightly shift. sorry to warn you about that, sidney, but i know you're in favor of strong women since you're married to one. >> i think you'll get inquiries from women who might want to work there. sidney harmon, how difficult do you think it will be to turn "newsweek" around? >> it will be difficult. it will be manageable. it will be done. >> all right. >> excellent words. >> tina brown seemed to be your first, second, third, and fourth choice for editor. why was that? >> i need hardly tell you, howard, since you work for her. this is an indomitable force. this is the unique talent in journalism. thoroughly established, still gloriously curious, and, to use her favorite word, totally animated. that's an irresistible combination. >> let me ask you financially, though, with 250 people working at "newsweek," 70 at "the daily beast," now a combined company, is it inevitable, sidney harman, there will be no, ma'am job cultcul -- some job cuts? >> it is inevitable if we merge two organizations intelligently, there will be some modification. i so dislike that emphasis on job cuts. what we're here to do is produce a stunningly effective combination and to save as many jobs as possible. >> tina brown, these negotiations with you and sidney harman and of course barry diller, the chief executive of iac, your parent company, went on for quite a while, a lot of jockeying over who would control that, it fell apart, you said the prenup was too difficult for this marriage, and yet here you are. how was this marriage saved? >> i have to say it was really saved by sidney, because one of the great common denominators in all the discussions was our sense that sidney was a person who really cared about journalism, you know, that we know that in taking over "newsweek" we really has done something amazingly courageous because he's basically stuck his neck out and said i believe in great journalism and i want to protect it. that was always very appealing to me, i have to say, and something that all of us respected hugely. trying to work out these kind of mergers and things is very complex. whatever companies they are. it is difficult to figure out, you know, into already existing operations with its own way of doing things, its own culture, how it's going to work. but we did work it out amicably, and actually people have said it was difficult, it fell apart, but i have to say i think it was pretty speedy for something as complex as this. >> and i would add, i would add that it was one of those gentle, slight interruptions. it is seen by many in the media as a reuniting. i don't think we were ever, ever separated. what i like about all of this is we've had an opportunity to come to really know each other. that's a crucial first step. i think it's fair to say we're all a great deal more comfortable now than when we began. very promising. >> you know, howie, when we had that final meeting on the tuesday where we all got together in the same room for really the first time as opposed to various members of the team getting together, it was such a great dynamic and such a great sense that here we all are, professionals, all of us really wanting to make this work, and it was very thrilling, the whole sort of atmosphere in the room. >> sidney harman, you've said all along you want to be a hands-on owner. what assurances have you gotten that you'll have that kind of role? >> i'm totally comfortable with my role now, howard. we are a trio -- tina, steven, and i -- we will work together as a team. i have little concern about how well that teamwork will go, and as for hands on, i can't imagine any one of the three of us not wanting to be thoroughly engaged every hour, every day. that's the excitement in this for me. >> we talk about every hour, wait till you start getting those 6:00 a.m. e-mails from tina. and steven was the president of beast," now the chief executive of this company. tina, you were editor of "vanity fai fair", a monthly, "the new yorker," a weekly. but the magazine industry was healthier then. you now have to do more with less given economics of the business, and a lot of magazines have either gone by the wayside or shrunk dramatically. >> absolutely. but that's really where having done -- edited "the daily beast" for the last two years has been such a fantastic shifting of the mind-set. you know, we've really operated in a completely different economic structure, the kind of structures we used to have in old kind of days when the magazine was such a rich business. we really got used to working with younger writers, with writers on a different scale who make writing part of the several things they do in terms of budget and also, i think, what's great about having worked exclusively online with hardly a thought for print in the last two years is we kind of look back on the world of print almost with the eyes of an expatria expatriate, looking at an old country. we understand very much what we miss, what it didn't have and what has happened since. we can bring the kind of energy we've developed at "the daily beast" and all the sort of multimedia platform sense to the reinvigoration of "newsweek." i think to have that experience is really quite invaluable. to have such a different range of skills as represented by "the beast" which we can then integrate with the terrific talent at "newsweek," and there is a lot of talent. one of the things i love is having gone over there on friday i can already sense the people in the room, there's so many good people there and i hope to do what i did at the new yorker, which was to uncover people doing one thing at "newsweek" who could suddenly do something quite different and really thrive. >> the metabolism of being on the internet is just a much faster-paced existence, as i have learned in the brief time since i left "the washington post." let me get a break in. we'll talk more about the internet and the impact this whole merger will have on "the daily beast." [ female announcer ] there's a new way to let go of some of the annoying symptoms menopause brings. introducing one a day menopause formula. the only complete multivitamin with soy isoflavones to help address hot flashes and mild mood changes. new one a day menopause formula. we're back talking about the merger of "newsweek" and "the daily beast." i've been struck by the fast pace of the operation. are you worried in swallowing these 250 employees from "newsweek" this will change the character of the website? big institution, and i worked for one at "washington post," tend to move a little slower than smaller operations. >> not at all because -- >> don't speak of swallowing anybody. >> wrong verb. okay. >> we're not swallowing at all. i'm not at all daunted by having, you know, two operations in this sense at all. i mean, the fact is that "the daily beast has its own great momentum and it will continue to have that momentum and nothing will change that. all that will happen, actually, is that the two merged staffs will have a chance to work for both. and that i think is exciting to everybody. there will be new writers and old writers at "newsweek" who now have a very thriving digital outfit for material and there will be editors who come from print at "the daily beast who will be able to develop ideas at greater length that can see their way into "newsweek." as i see it, it will be as nimble as ever, bringing some of that nimbleness to the print side. the print side, of course, is going to bring a great deal to the website. so i'm not at all daunted by that at all. in fact, what's great about it is it kind of fixes one issue from the beginning where so many print magazines are struggling to see what is the website piece of it going to be. that part of it is fine. now i can focus on turning around "newsweek" and bringing this magazine back to its glory, really. i mean, it is a great global magazine. people forget that. you know, it has an amazing whole worldwide imprint, "newsweek." >> that's right. >> it does. it's very exciting. i met with the polish part of "newsweek." they are so talented. i was blown away by what they showed me. it showed me the richness, the depth, the global reach that "newsweek" is as a magazine. >> let's leave a little time for sidney harman. go ahead, sidney. >> howard, i've been around long enough to see the premature burial of such renascent giants as ford, and i believe that with tina and her partners great barry diller and this cool cat, this kid of 92 years of energy and curiosity, we look to a very bright future. >> do you spend much time on the internet yourself, sidney harman? >> i spend a great deal of time on the internet. it's been clogged recently by bulletins and e-mails from my editor in chief. but i'll get through that. after all, i think of "newsweek" as a national institution. i think of myself as a national treasure. i ought to be able to manage some internet activity. >> all right. well you've got a modest partner, tina brown. >> i have to say keeping up with sidney is going to be my issue. this guy is a dynamo. >> an interesting courtship to follow. everyone, including me, will want to see how it works out. thanks for joining us. coming up in the second half of "reliable sources," the bush booklets. two years after leaving the white house, george bush breaks his silence. but are the media giving the decider a fair hearing as he defends his presidency? plus behind the scenes as conan o'brien returns with his new cable program. "the new york times'" bill carter gives us a blow by blow of the epic nbc meltdown that cost him "the tonight show." and later, it's kurts versus olbermann. from capital one, we get double miles on every purchase. so we earned an la getaway twice as fast. we get double miles every time we use our card. [ whistling ] no matter what we're buying. and since double miles add up quick... romans! get em! [ garth ] ...we can bring the whole gang. [ sheep bleats ] it's hard to beat double miles. whoa -- he's on the list. but we're with him. [ male announcer ] get the venture card from capital one and earn double miles on every purchase, every day. go to capitalone.com. [ indistinct shouting ] what's in your wallet? [ indistinct shouting ] but not for your eyes. they're still so tired-looking. with olay, challenge that with regenerist anti-aging eye roller. its hydrating formula with caffeine-conditioning complex perks up the look of eyes. it works in the blink of an eye. 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(rings bell) bell works. love that bell! regions recognizes the unique needs of families. and we want to make su y have exactly what u ed - from the right checking account, to a mortgage, to loans for just about anything. those are for the kids, mike. so if you're ready for a bank that can give your family the financial freedom you want, switch to regions. this was the week we revisited 9/11, hurricane katrina, the breakdown, and president bush decided to promote his new book, "decision points," sitting down with oprah, matt lauer, sean hannity. but bush hasn't always wanted to get into a detailed defense of his white house decisions. on nbc's prime time special matt lauer asked him about approving the use of waterboarding against terror suspects. >> why is waterboarding legal in your opinion? >> because a lawyer said it was legal. >> if it's legal, president bush, if an american is taken into custody in a foreign country, not necessarily a uniform -- >> look, i'm not going to debate the issue, matt. >> your words. no one was more sickened or angry than i was when we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. you still have a sickening feeling when you think about it. >> i do. i do. >> was there ever any consideration of apologizing to the american people? >> i mean, apologizing would basically say the decision was the wrong decision, and i don't believe it was the wrong decision. >> so how are the media treating the former president when he steps back into the spotlight? dana milbank, columnist for "the washington post" and author of a new book about glenn beck, "tears of a clown." washington bureau chief for the "chicago sun-times" and columnist for politics daily, lynn sweet. and in austin, texas, mark mckinnon, former media adviser to president bush during his campaigns and a contributor to "the daily beast." a lot of "the daily beast" this morning. mark, i'll start with you. how dhave the media treated george bush fairly this past week or is there a collective chip on the shoulder? >> i think they did. i think the media, like many others, were surprised, howie, for those of us who worked or know president bush, it was tough to see him reduced to such a one-dimensional character, and we all appreciate the diplomacy that he's shown president obama over the last couple years by staying off the radar screen. but it's been great for us to watch him come out so that others can see the side of president bush that we all saw for many, many years behind the scenes. and i thought he got pretty good treatment this week by the press, frankly. i thought it was a good rollout and people got to see the -- you know, they got -- the bottom line for people, i think, when they saw these interviews or if they read the book is you can question his politics, you can question his politics, but you really can't question his motives, his character, or his heart. >> okay. >> i thought it was pretty good overall. >> some people, have, of course, asked those questions, dana milbank. "time" magazine had an image of george bush holding his book upside down. john kline calling him em petulant and shallow. >> i think for president bush out there selling a book, any press is good press and he's gotten a whole lot of it. he's got to be pleased. he's self-deprecated himself, saying people didn't know he could read, much less write a book. and so i think he's -- i think it's been with the passage of time, the media become fonder, i found myself writing this week that i missed george w. bush, never expected to put those words into writing. >> maybe you miss kicking him around. lynn sweet, what did you think of the matt lauer interview? it was inevitable that the book would reignite controversy over his criticism and his tenure. >> no disrespect to matt, he had the first bite at the apple so he went over some ground you would want to cover. he asked predictable low-hanging-fruit questions about waterboarding. i thought bill o'reilly had done a pretty good job because he was not at the top of the pecking order. the interview covered ground, it was important, but a lot of these interviews are going over and amplifying what's in the book, so to amplify what dana said, this is part of a marking ploy. and i think people should understand that these hosts who get interviews are picked by bush because he's a very big get. i was invited to a bush speech in chicago a few weeks ago, a paid speech that he was giving to people who paid for it, invited me and some others to come. when i got there i was banned from there because the people who paid for the speech didn't realize the contract forgot, you know, ban the press. so what this is is a marketing device. they pick hosts that they want to talk to because they think they can have a more controlled interview. >> you're a dangerous property. they had to ban you. mark mckinnon, you wrote in your kol that you mean the george bush you know personally, and you worked with him for years, is very different than the distorted public image many have come to accept as accurate. why is there that distorted public image? is that because of the press coverage? >> largely, yes, i think, and i think it relates not just to president bush but to any public figures, including especially presidents and i'll add barack obama to that list. there's just a tendency to want to reduce our leaders to the simplest common denominator to make them one-dimensional, cardboard figures because it's easy. you know, it's easier to portray somebody in the easiest light rather than to reflect the nuance characters that they really are. and by the way, just to respond to your guests, i'll say, you know, this is -- every president gets to write a book and they get to go out and sell the book and, you know, i don't think that anybody would have suggested that matt lauer or oprah winfrey were necessarily bush fans. >> a good point. speaking of oprah, i want to play a little of that interview. the subject turned to katrina, where the former president acknowledged some mistake, and of course that criticism by kanye west about he doesn't care about black people. let's roll that. >> do you not understand how you flying over and that picture of us -- of you looking out of the helicopter and all of these being black, mostly black, disenfranchised, poor people and the reaction not being sooner, can you see how the perception would be that you were racist? >> no, i cannot see that. i can see how the perception would be maybe bush didn't care. but to accuse me of being a racist is disgusting. >> so oprah, who campaigned for obama, thinks the perception is at least plausible? >> yeah, although i think he came out pretty well in that interview overall. you know, he had to know that these sorts of questions would come up. he brought it up himself in the book. and i think that we're raising these issues again -- i say "we" in the press, but it's in sort of a gauzy way. we're looking back at history and it's sort of interesting now and i think there's more affecti affection. there's no accident that every time a president leaves office he becomes more popular. >> he's out of the firing line. dana misses he kind of misses george w. lynn sweet, are journalists engaging in a bit of bush nostalgia? maybe he looks better after two years of obama? >> well, yes, and you have more information out there because now you're hearing things from his side and his perspective and that's only natural when you get his take on matter. you know, that there's that story that came out on how his abortion views were impacted by his mother going to the hospital and he sees the aborted fetus, a bit graphic, but if this is what influences him, that helps you understand something. he said in one of these interviews what he's really looking forward to is so a professional historian can see if they get him right. he's just providing his take for that historian. >> as any foreign politician would. i wanted to turn now to something that's getting a lot of buzz this week, sarah palin's so-called alaska reality show starting this week on tlc. let's play a little bit of that. >> that whole misperception about being a diva, it cracks me up. there's a gnat stuck to my lip. on a really clear day, you can see russia from here! almost. i'd rather be doing this than in some stuffy old political office. i'd rather be out here being free. >> all right, mark mckinnon, is tlc putting on a reality show or a really long campaign commercial? >> well, it's both. i mean, sarah palin, whatever you think of her, has become the absolute glittering object for the media. and she keeps reinventing her -- not only herself but ways to control the media message these days. she's, you know, mastered twitter. she's become the twitter queen in terms of controlling her message. and now she's sort of reinventing political reality television. and she just keeps bending the envelope. so -- and she creates this wonderful contradiction i think in all of us who watch her, whether we're, you know, in politics or media. she's just an object of ongoing fascination and you have to give her credit for that. >> how much reality, lynn sweet, is there in this reality show? >> it's her version, so it would -- it's not like we're waiting for an ending. the show will not end with a decision on 2012 or not, which is what a lot of people might want to know. but it's a genius. she is doing everything right. you know, she has a book. this show is coming up just as she's about to go on a second book tour. she has made herself into this very brandable person. but even ostensibly it's not about politics. she still has a problem to address, her low favorability ratings. maybe this will do it. >> i think there's complicity in the media because when you mention sarah palin you get more hits online. >> that's why we're doing it right now. >> exactly. i think if you could look honestly, i think most of us in the media, we want her to run for the presidency because it would be a much more interesting race. >> there's your lead. dana milbank endorses palin run. before we go to break, there was a joke made about you, a couple jokes by bill o'reilly this week, prompted you to write a column. i want to play what reilly said. we'll get your response on the other side. >> i think you and i should go and beat him up. >> listen, all due respect to dana milbank -- >> no, no, no. he doesn't deserve -- does sharia law say we can behead dana milbank? that was a joke, media matters people. >> you wrote a column taking exception to that joke and o'reilly accused you of taking it literally. >> someone had complained about the joke, a reader and he followed up by saying if i went to iran i'd be turned into hummus. i'm not sure that's better or worse than being beheaded. >> did you overreact? >> well, look, i think it's a serious issue when people are suggesting violent imagery as bill o'reilly did. he went after me again on wednesday night after the column. and he can take issue with the column. he can say i'm full of it. >> his issue was that you were writing about fox on election night and said doug shone, the democratic pollster, had appeared. you didn't say he was the only guest, but you didn't mention there had been other -- >> that's a fair argument. maybe i should have written it differently, but let's not talk about cutting off heads. say i'm a lousy journalist. i can take it. go ahead. but let's drop the hummus. >> he may take you up on that. let me get a break here. when we come back, john stewart continuing his indictment of cable news by taking his act to msnbc and challenging rachel mad dough. we'll examine that showdown. 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[ male announcer ] e-trade. investing unleashed. in this corner, jon stewart, the sultan of satire, who's been throwing punches at msnbc arguing a leading liberal network is guilty of some of the same excesses as right-leaning fox news. in the other corner, rachel mad dough arguing she and others may have a strong point of view but are not partisan like that other network owned by rupert murdoch. in the way wake of his big washington rally, he stopped by mad doudo maddow's show, making his case. >> i think what happened is i think the media, having have been derided for so long as being liberal and biased and afraid of that charge, when keith spoke out the way he did, he essentially came out of the closet as a liberal. >> right. >> it didn't -- nothing bad happened. it was okay. >> right. >> he grew his audience, funny thing. i think it gave network executives courage to say people who are liberals can be on tv as long as they call themselves liberal. >> i heard the executives' take on courage, what they did is they went why is fox news kicking our butts? we need to fight this with a similar or sensational -- this is an arms race. >> lynn sweet, does jon stewart have a point about msnbc being part of polarization of cable news? i think he has a point because we now have a network seen as right wing and left wing, liberal or conservative, whatever words you want to use on it, and he put it, though, in the continue tekext as if this negative and rachel maddow made it seem more evolution their. that's the difference. stewart sees himself as more of an umpire though a player himself, but of course he's a player. >> a sharp umpire in the sense he doesn't like foreign punches. mark, what he did in that appearance was try to puncture the notion that msnbc basically reports the facts with a point of view. i know people at msnbc see themselves as journalists and hate being lumped in with the opinion hosts at fox, but stewart took that on, did he not? >> he did and rightfully so. i was on that network with one of the hosts, and we went to a break and they said, could you cut the bipartisan crap and just give us some read meat? so, you know, listen, it's all about ratings. and, you know, should probably be lean left ward and tell it like it is, news is news and opinion is opinion, which is fine. let's have some editorial opinion, but call it what it is. >> were you being offended by being asked to cut the bipartisan crap? >> i wasn't surprised. >> did you change what you were saying? did you change your tone? >> no, i didn't change a thing. i'm going to keep fighting for the middle and for dialogue that i think the vast middle of america wants to hear. >> mark, of course, a former democrat. do you want to tell us who it was that said that? >> i don't. >> make some headlines here. dana milbank, you are a contributor at msnbc for a while. did the opinion hosts have blirnds on when it comes to how partisan they can sometimes seem? >> i think so, and i think happens on both sides. i don't understand this reluctance to say we're ideological, we're partisan. what's the big deal? that's how they're perceived. why not on both sides give into that? there seems to be a running argument about who's worse, who's more partisan, who's fairer to the facts. that changes from day to day and changes with a swing of the political pendulum. i don't understand this allergy to saying as when i covered fox's election night coverage, why not say of course we were happy that the republicans won? it just seems so manifestly obvious. why can't both networks do it? >> briefly, fox's election night coverage was anchored by bret baier and kelly. msnbc wept with the all liberal -- we heard rachel maddow say keith is out of the closet as liberal. they tend to criticize democrats but continue obama from the left. >> and fox criticizes from the right, which makes the new income bentd congress interesting. the difference when they have a big news night, they should probably have more news anchors than -- >> or give up the news anchors and just have an opinion. >> yeah. >> i am dying to know who said that to mark mckinnon, but i was not able to beat out of him. >> off camera, howie. >> mark mccakinnon, lynn suite, thanks. up next, conan's comeback. bill carter on whether he can make it on basic cable. ♪ where'd you learn to do that so well. ♪ ♪ where'd you learn to do that so well. ♪ the new cadillac srx. the cadillac of crossovers. cadillac. the new standard of the world. down the hill? man: all right. we were actually thinking, maybe... we're going to hike up here, so we'll catch up with you guys. [ indistinct talking and laughter ] whew! i think it's worth it. working with a partner you can trust is always a good decision. massmutual. let our financial professionals help you reach your goals. try capzasin-hp. it penetrates deep to block pain signals for hours of relief. capzasin-hp. take the pain out of arthritis. he climbed to the peak of the comedy mountaintop only to take a public and humiliating fall. conan o'brien took the $32 million he got for "the tonight show," disappeared and this week resurfaced on cable. here he is making his debut on tbs. >> people asked why i named the shoko nan. i did it so i'd be harder to replace. to be honest, it's not easy doing a late night show on a channel without a lot of money that viewers have trouble finding. so that's why i left nbc. >> there's still huge interest in just what happened between conan and jay leno and nbc when jay wound up reclaiming his late-night franchise after his prime time program was a total bust. bill carter of "the new york times" has produced perhaps a definitive behind-the-scenes account with his new book, "the war for late night." he joins me from new york. what does conan need to do to succeed on tbs? which i should mention is c par of cnn's parent company, time warner. we're not talking about a tonight show sized audience. >> he has to get an audience competitive with jon stewart, not jay leno. his main goal to be to do what he is, a funny guy, doing a successful, upbeat show every night. he can do that and make money for tbs. >> but is jon stewart a more difficult potential competitor for him particularly since part of conan's sales pitch he has made is he's going to attract younger viewers, who kind of like to watch comedy central? >> no doubt. they're going for kind of the same audience, college and slightly older audiences, the core for both guys. i think conan's audience may be not as politically orienorientet as into the news. he can carve out a niche. it won't be huge numbers. it won't take down leno or letterman. he's a talented guy. he'll figure it out and do well. >> he did beat leno and letterman on the huge night. let's talk about the battle you chronicle. the public perception -- and i argue against this almost every week on this show. it's funny people feel so passionately about it -- that leno was a scheming bad guy who plotted to get rid of conan and reclaim his hold job. did you find anything to support that? >> not at all. obviously jay is a guy who's single minded and wants to tell jokes every night. in order to figure he's a schemer, you'd have to guess in advance he decided to go on at 10:00 and fail and humiliate himself. that doesn't make any sense, because i do think he was damaged by that. >> i don't think there's any question about that. you report that jay was willing to go along with the two-show compromise, leno at 11 to 11:35, conan at 12:05. conan didn't go along with it. and there was word that he should have called conan. that doesn't sound like someone trying to sink conan o'brien. >> jay wants to go along and get along. he never wants to burn bridges or get people angry with him. it tends to happen anyway, by the way. he winds up making people feel like he's doing all these things behind their back. i think he's just single minded a and obsessed with one thing. when think said would you go back to 11:35, he snapped at it, yes, of course, eve an half-hour format, just to stay on the air. that's what he wants to do. >> shouldn't conan have accepted some responsibility for his lousy ratings? i know he feels like he was dealt a bad hand, but on the other hand he had the show, got advised about broadening his appeal, he wasn't on at 12:35 in the morning anymore. do you think he came to grips with the fact he partially failed? >> i think everybody has to take responsibility for the show. i mean, i think he does in a way think, you know, it's all on him in a way except he has this feeling that, a, he never fully got the show because they moved jay to 10:00 to begin with. >> right. >> then, you know, on the air against dave he didn't get as good a promotion, as much backing because they were then launching this 10:00 show. i think there were factors but, yes, really cut away all the factor, it does come down to the guy. and i think we have to say about conan, he may not have starred out big. i think he didn't start out big in his late-night show, would he find the show, if it left him in place, if jay had gone to abc, they would have had to leave him in place, i think conan is a talented guy and he might have found something. he'd always have a core audience, never have him lose money, he'd still be strong but it would be a question whether he'd be the number-one guy and nbc expects the tonight show to be number one. >> i miss those days because they were all funny sniping at each other. let's play a little bit of the monologues from that period of time. >> hosting the tonight show has been the fulfillment of a lifelong dream for me, and i want to say to the kids out there watching, you can do anything you want in life. yeah. unless jay leno wants to do it, too. >> even dave letterman taking shots at me, which is a surprise. usually he's just taking shots at interns. i couldn't believe -- >> now, what was -- was conan o'brien really wounded by the whole turn of events? >> definitely. i spoke to conan not that long after the events had taken place and this was a guy who was shattered. i mean, he had, you know, dreamed about doing this and clearly put off his career for five years so he tonight show. and then when it fell apart that fast, it really affected him. i have to say that joke he told, though, that one joke was the only joke he really told about jay, and it really was significant. because until that joke was told, nbc thought there still maybe was a chance to keep this thing together, but then jay called up and said, yapt woi cat work with this guy. >> is it fair to say you had the cooperation of all the major players on this? >> yeah. >> is he still ticked off about lug "the tonight show" in 1992? >> yes, he is. i think that's a scar dave has never been able to heal. i think he always felt he was a better talent than jay, he had put in the time and he deserved to have the show and nbc went with someone else and it's been in his krcraw ever since. and then the same thing was happening with jay and conan, he couldn't resist. >> to what extent did the ceo jeff zucker play hardball? >> originally he stepped back and gave the show to conan. but really the decision had to be made by zucker, because he had made the first decision five years earlier to make this long transition to conan. he was in the middle of this and he was defensive. because nbc was about to go through a change of ownership. and this was a very awkward situation that zucker found himself in. and i think the one thing he blames himself for, and certainly, i think -- >> just briefly. >> it was not himself stepping in and saying to conan, here's what's going to happen to you. he didn't do it personally. he let someone else do it. >> bill carter, thanks very much for joining us from new york. still to come on this program, sarah palin clashes with the "wall street journal," glenn beck's sad attack on george soros, and i challenge keith olbermann over those political donations on counterdown. the media monitor, straight ahead. i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day women's 50+ advantage has gingko for memory and concentration plus support for bone and breast health. a great addition to my routine. 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[ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. so they can focus on serving their customers. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear protection than mobil 1. castrol edge. it's more than just oil. time now for the media monitor. our weekly look at the hits and errors in the news business. i'm all for politicians challenging mistakes by the press, so did sarah palin catch one by "the wall street journal"? the former alaska governor criticizing the fed's latest big move to stimulate the economy when she warned about inflation. here's what she said. "everyone who ever goes out shopping for groceries knows that prices have risen significantly over the past year or so." uh, not really, journal reporter s sundeep said in a blog post. but did the lame stream media get it wrong? on our facebook page, palin notes that the journal reported just last week. "the article noted that an inflationary tide is beginning to ripple through america's supermarkets and restaurants. prices of staples including milk, beef, coffee, cocoa, and sugar have risen sharply in recent months. now, i realize i'm just a former governor and a current housewife from alaska, but even humble folks like me can read the newspaper. i'm surprised that a prestigious reporter from the "wall street journal" doesn't." but here's what palin left out. "an inflation ir tide is beginning to ripple through america's supermarket restaurants, threatening to end the tamest year of food pricing in nearly two decades." the journal was right. if you're going to quote an article, don't leave out the part that contradicts your argument. we talked last week about msnbc suspending keith olbermann after he donated money to three democratic candidates. as you probably know by now, olbermann returned to the air on tuesday. his suspension from "countdown" lasting all of two programs. he said he, quote, mistakenly violated an inconsistently applied rule. the next day he spoke to his viewers. >> i owe you three apologies, foremost, having subjected you to all this drama. and any rule like that in any company is probably not legal. >> the third point, olbermann said he hadn't yet made the contribution when he interviewed arizona congressman raul grijalva on "countdown," but he made another blunder. >> the day after the donations, i included the opponent in the race against congresswoman giffords in the old "worst persons" segment. i never made the connection that he, jesse kelly, was running against her. >> but that wasn't the end of it. olbermann had me and "the nation's" greg mitchell on and posed this question. "is it ever okay for journalists to donate to politicians?" >> is it yes or no or sometimes? >> it's absolutely not, and here's why. i believe you made a serious mistake, keith, with these democratic donations, beyond the question of whether you knew about the nbc policy. there has to be some kind of line separating journalists, and i know you consider yourself a journalist, from partisan players. i would put giving money to politicians on the wrong side of that line. if it's not, how about raising money for politicians, how about advising politicians, or writing speeches on the side for politicians. at some point if you cross this line that you're talking about, you're no longer one of us, you become one of them. >> if you and i and greg can't donate, can our bosses donate? can our boss' boss donate? can rupert murdoch donate? because he surely must have more influence about what appears on tv news than i do? or if it's not rupert, what about the chairman of ge or comcast? >> one of the reasons that i think you left your vulnerable, keith, to charges of hypocrisy, because you have been banging on fox news over the news corp donations from rupert murdoch or steered by rupert murdoch and people like sean hannity who has raised money for gop politicians. >> keith olbermann is a smart guy, who, as i said, made a mistake. a bigger mistake would be for television networks to decide there don't have to be any boundaries at all. glenn beck st

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