>> is he a nut being driven by nutty rhetoric from extremists? >> absolutely. they're taking our guns narrative that has emerged over the last really not just ten years or five years, really last 40 years. whenever there's a democrat in office or gives any resistance to the second amendment, in my mind. >> do you think that the gun debate will ever change? >> i think it could, but the difference between that and say civil rights is big money. there's so much money invested in gun money. >> you and i both know that there's a culture in the united states, and it's a difference between urban and racial. >> same there. >> what i'm talking about is a cultural situation in america