going through and as a preventive measure to sort of send a message to these medical institutions that if you mess up this badly, there has to be a punitive measure as well and that's what we call punitive damages, so you're going to see the families seeking all of these different recourse. and it's not, you know, money can't bring a child back but, again, you do want to send the message that you have to be so careful when you enter into these surgeries to make sure that everything's done properly. >> yeah. you know, naturally we would never wish any of this on anyone. >> right. >> but these are kind of the lessons we learn from these sort of tragedies that we all can apply. thank you to all of my guests, sherrie, thanks, holly, jeff as well. we're not done with you yet because in a moment we'll talk about a couple of other cases. a world war ii veteran in kansas he can't afford to make repairs to his business, so he's been thrown in jail. it sounds like debtor's prison. the details next.