Today on the program, the first lady of ukraine. I talk to Olena Zelenska about that frequently forgotten side of war, the human toll. How are ukrainians dealing with the destruction of their cities and towns . How are they fighting winters cold as the country struggles to pump out heat . And can they ever return to life as normal . Also, brazils january 8th and its stunning similarities to americas january 6th. We dig into the attack on the capital in brasilia with reporter mac margolis. And california was pummelled by rivers of rain. Well destroy the astronomical cost of Climate Change and wild weather that is already upon us. But first, heres my take. This week, at a summit, joe biden said that the western was experiencing unprecedented levels of migration, greater than at any time in history. This is not hyperbole. There were 2. 4 million apprehensions at americas southwestern border last fiscal year, which is about 600,000 higher than the prior year, the previous high. These numbers are likely to get worse over time, and not just in america. The Western World faces a perfect storm regarding migration. Climate changes is making equatorial regions far more prone to drought and disease, making farming and living there much more dangerous. Poverty and political instability in these regions persist, and post pandemic problems have festered, so people move toward the richer and more temperate north europe and america. But the scale of migration is creating problems both of politics and policy. The politics is obvious rightwing populism from sweden to the United States to italy, is almost always leant with fears of uncontrolled immigration. If Western Leaders Cannot properly address immigration, western politics will continue to be consumed with populism for a long time to come. The policy part is equally as important. The waves of migration we are watching now are making a mockery of the system of asylum that has come into being over the last decades. After world war ii and in the wake of the holocaust, countries vowed to welcome people who had legitimate fears for their lives. The body of International Law developed that gave Asylum Seekers certain rights. In recent years, however, millions of people have arrived at borders claiming asylum. While some of them might be genuinely victims of targeted persecution, most appear to be economic migrants, searching for a better life, fleeing poverty and disease. Some are victims of violence and gang warfare. But the same was surely true of earlier waves of immigrants from Southern Italy or ireland. The u. S. Or france, its only rational to cross the border and claim asylum, so theyre more likely to be allowed in and have a chance to stay. But these new waves have collapsed the distinction between Asylum Seekers and regular economic migrants. President biden deserves credit for making an important effort to address the problem. His recently released plan tries not to reward illegal Border Crossing and simultaneously expands an existing Parole Program to include cuba, haiti and nicaragua, in addition to venezuela. Hes been criticized from the left and the right. In this case, at least, its a sign hes doing something right. In december, rishi sunak acknowledged that the current Asylum System is broken. Emmanuel macron has proposed measures that try to manage migration into france along similar lines. The politics of immigration is treacherous. The american right has become almost completely opposed to immigration, having moved more sharply on this issue than any other that i can recall. There was a time that ronald reagan, the patron saint of the republican party, spoke glowingly about immigration and offered a massive amnesty to many of those living in the country illegally. These days, 70 of republicans think high rates of immigration pose a critical threat to america. Only 18 of democrats share that view. Its not clear that republicans want any solution to the migrant crisis, since leaving it to fester creates problems that they can then blame on biden. To some extent, this strategy is already working. A majority of americans now believe that what is happening at the southern border could be characterized as an invasion. The Democratic Party remains committed to immigration and immigrants, but it does not make enough of a distinction between immigrants who come into the country following laws, and those who come in by crossing the border illegally. Everyone should be treated humanely, but those who follow the law and those who break it cannot be treated alike. The truth is that most western countries need more immigrants. Even though the Federal Reserve is trying to slow the economy down, the u. S. Unemployment rate is at a 50year low. By some estimates, germany needs an additional 400,000 Immigrant Workers annually. A recent study by economists found that immigrants account for about 36 of the innovation in america. But a pro Immigration Policy is impossible if people believe that their countries are being overrun by lawless invaders, human trafficking, and chaos. In order to open the door to a new era of immigration, we will have to close it on the current mess. Go to cnn. Com fareed for a link to my the Washington Post clime this week, and lets get started. Most of the headlines you see on the war in ukraine are about a battle for a similar town, an additional aid package from a western country, or another round of missile strikes. Those are all important, but they miss the humanity, the fact there are human beings living in those towns receiving that aid, being killed by those missile strikes. People with names and faces, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters. I can think of no one better to talk about the human impact of this horrible war than the first lady of ukraine, Olena Zelenska. She joins me now exclusively from kyiv. Madame first lady, welcome. Translator hello. Its great to see you on the screen. When we first met in kyiv many years ago, it did not seem that you would be, in a sense, a kind of wartime first lady. How much has your life changed with this war . Are you are you able to function in any way normally . Translator thats a tough question. The very issue of normality is a global philosophical question. It depends on your definition of normality, because our life cannot be considered normal today. Even if you compare what we had a year ago appeared what we have today in ukraine, in the first months we were shocked. We could not believe that such an aggression is possible. It is absolutely illogical. It was inconceivable that it can happen in the central europe. Now, people are trying to go on living, working, having their children go to school. Sometimes they even make jokes and not only are they trying to survive, but live a meaningful life. All people in ukraine are subject from time to time to russias missile attacks. [ speaking nonenglish ] translator people can now tell between the sound of a drone in the sky and the enemys missiles. Our children have grown up too soon, and you can see a lot of young people whose eyes are those of the adult. And it worries me immensely. But in spite of everything, we are trying to be optimistic. People are getting adjusted to the new conditions, and today, people have got accustomed to those electricity cuts, and they find new opportunities. And when at 3 00 a. M. , electricity appears, then life emerges anew and people start their Washing Machines and their coffee machines. And there are a lot of people who have learned how to cook with no electricity, even having electric cookers. So this is a huge impact that the war has had on us also has we are trying to preserve some sort of normality today. When you look at the way the russians have waged this war in places like mariupol, where there are some residents that 1 out of every 4 residents were killed. When you look at the bombing of civilian areas, the bombing of power plants to make people lose access to heat and electricity, it seems that it is an effort to break the will of the civilian population. And it takes us back to world war ii days. Do you worry that it could succeed, that just the sheer devastation of the russian assault could break the back in some of these cities and some of these communities . Translator of course, that is what theyre trying to do. I dont think they will succeed and we understand that we are capable of enduring even longer. We can endure, but you are right in that aims to intimidate people. Three days ago, there was yet another shelling of a civilian community, and the projectiles hit an openair market with a lot of people. And it was a sheer act of terrorism that cannot be either explained or justified. And one of the purposes that they have is to destroy the infrastructure of this country, for people to be exhausted, for people to raise their voice and say, we are sick and tired of this war, let us negotiate. Let us bring this war to the end. But they cannot end. Stay with us. Next on gps, more of my interview with ukraines first lady. Shes talked a lot about the children of ukraine. I asked her about how her own children are dealing with the war, when we come back. Adding lysol laundry sanitizer kills 99. 9 of illnesscausing Bacteria Detergents leave behind. Clean is good. Sanitized is better. Tech cracked windshield . Make it easy and schedule with safelite, because you can track us and see exactly when well be there. Woman i have a few more minutes. 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And we are back here on gps for more of my exclusive interview with ukraines first lady, Olena Zelenska. She joins me from kyiv. With so many men fighting now, or supporting the war effort in some way, a lot of ukrainian women have stepped up and taken roles that perhaps they would not have taken before the war. Tell us a little bit about what you have seen about the women of ukraine and how they have responded to this war. Translator you know, women have taken the brunt, ensuring that their families are okay, that their children are okay and safe. Mothers and grandmothers have stepped in. Several millions of our women and children have fled from the war abroad. There are a lot of internally displaced people. More than 5 million ukrainians have left their homes. And now reside in other renals of ukraine. It is very unusual. It is not normal, and people have to endure that, as well. I would not actually single out women as a part of the population. They do what is needed. So we protect each other, we support each other. And we hope that most of the families will be able to be united. More than half of our families are divided or separated. There are some families where members of families are in occupation, whereas other relatives are in the free areas of ukraine where they have no way of knowing what happened to those under the occupation, and they are not sure whether their relatives are still alive, and they are full of hopes that they are. I cant even define the expectations, this hope. Youve talked, madame first lady, about the Special Needs of children in this situation. I was wondering, you have little children yourself. How have they dealt with this . What have you told them that when the war started, they didnt see their father for months, even now. Do they understand it . Do they have to grow up very fast . Translator you know, all children in ukraine understand whats going on, including mine. You cannot conceal anything from them. And we are not trying to do so, because they receive the same information as all of us. They are trying to have a normal life. Children study and because study is a purpose of their life. Thats what keeps your life together, just something that does not allow you to get desperate. Ive tried to cuddle my children, calm them, try to reassure them, but children should live a well structured life, and im trying to bring in this order into their lives. Understand that sooner or later, everyone stops thinking that they do not know what is going on, and what will happen tomorrow. And whether they should put a lot of effort into, say, University Studies or at school. But we should not be we should not give up, because we know that ukraine, after the war, will need educators, young people that will be restoring our country and restoring normality in the country and in our town. When ive talked to your husband about your relationship, he has always emphasized how important its been for him, and how it was very hard when you didnt see each other. Do you now have the ability to live a slightly more normal life where you see your husband, you know, on a regular basis, even daily . Translator i cant see him daily, as is the case with many other ukrainian families. When i come to the office, i come to see him. In his office today, we had lunch together with some of the families. Its cool when your husband is a president , you can see him on the tv screen and you can see everything is okay. But we do miss one another, and i do miss my husband, and we hope to be together again to have our usual Family Evenings when you do not have to look up every minute, when you know you have all the time in the world, that you can discuss as long as they want, not as long as you are allocated. These are huge trials, but i think we are going through them in a dignified manner. Madame first lady, i know how valuable your time is, and youre very kind to spend a little bit of it with us. I hope i will see you again soon in person. It was my great pleasure. Next on gps, an eerie echo of the january 6th attack on the u. S. Capitol, brazils capitol was stormed by protestors on january 8th. Well explore what happened and what it may mean for the countrys newly elected president , when we come back. Just look around. This digital age were living in, its pretty unbelievable. Problem is, not everyones fully living in it. Nobody should have to take a class or fill out a medical form on public wifi with a screen the size of your hand. Home internet shouldnt be a luxury. Everyone should have it and now a lot more people can. So lets go. The digital age is waiting. A week ago on january 8th, a mob in brazils capital stormed the congress building, the supreme court, and the president ial palace. The images are reminiscent of those that emerged from the attack on the u. S. Capitol two years ago on january 6th. The protestors in brazil, like their american counterparts, believed the recent president ial election had been stolen. They were supporters of the rightwing populist former president jair bolsonaro, who lost in the october to Luiz Ignacio Lula da silva. So what happens next . Joining me now is mac margolis. He spent four decades reporting on brazil and the rest of latin american, and today is a contributing columnist for the Washington Post. Welcome, mack. First, give us a sense of how much this does follow the trump playbook, that is to what extent was this were these protests and violence the outcome of a process of denying the Election Victory and ginning up a certain kind of anger and enthusiasm with the idea of actually somehow changing the outcome . Well, this was basically copy and paste. Bolsonaro, the outgoing president , was very fond, almost fawningly so, of donald trump. And spent a lot of time observing him and watching the way he ran the white house. Bolsonaro has basically followed that lead. The protestors basically said that, as you mentioned, they believe the election was rigged. Therefore, stolen, and they wont accept it and wanted intervention, preferably military intervention, to reverse the situation. I want to ask you about the feelings that this election was rigged. Was some of it furthered by the fact that brazil has completely electronic voting . I remember when it was unveiled, it was seen as this great leap forward. Brazil was becoming even more high tech than most western democracies. As far as i can tell, it works very well. But you can imagine that it can easily be used to kind of create Conspiracy Theories or fuel them. Exactly. Brazil, as you mentioned, is incredibly wired. There is a smartphone for every brazilian, maybe more. They are constantly online, and they are quite taken with social media. And so a rumor spreads very quickly. You know, couple this with the discredit that exists of conventional media, and you have and bolsonaro i have to say was a master at orchestrating discontent. His campaign, you recall, four years ago he rose not on conventional media at all, but on facebook live, twitter and such. And thats been the case ever since. So it wasnt a hard leap, really, for him to suggest that the electronic box that people deposit their votes was somehow suspect, because theres no paper, right . Theres no way he sets up to audit the votes. But that was easily disproven. The brazilians have been voting electronically for 20 years or more, and there hasnt been a hitch, except for in rare occasions have not made a people at all about that outcome. Bolsonaro really played this up. When you look around latin america, what is striking is the level of public discontent. If you look at the kind of people who get elected in colombia, former radicals associated with terrorist groups. In chile, you know, leftists. If you look at the violence in peru, which has had its own version of this, except in that case, it was leftwing populists. Put it in context, what does this what does this tell you . This is this is an ongoing drama, and i think people are, everywhere, trying to figure this out. The easiest conclusion is that latin america swings back and forth, idea lodge idealogically from right to left. The new crop of governments that have come in lean to the left, but i think that misses the point. This is not a new pink tide that we have seen before. This is really an antiincumbent fury of a populous that is tired of the Political Class. The Political Class is discredited across the region, and across the world, i suppose. Theyre looked at particularly in bad light in brazil and other countries. So it doesnt take long for a president to win, to then turn into public enemy. Mac margolis, always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much. Next on gps, xi jinping has surprised the world lately, ending covid restrictions suddenly, and then taking some unexpected steps to revive chinas economy. Markets are cheering, but should they . Well discuss after the break. Its fair to say chinas strict Zero Covid Policy tanked that countrys economy. And as china emerges from lockdown, it needs to restart its economy. To do just that, president xi jinping appears to be reverting to an old playbook he had tried to get away from. What does this mean for chinas future and for the world . Joining me now is lingling wei, the chief china correspondent for the wall street journal. Welcome. First, ive got to ask you, because you reported so well on this, what is your sense of why xi jinping so abruptly and dramatically ended the Zero Covid Policy. Because it happened just so much faster and so much more completely than anyone expected. Sure, its great to be here, fareed. Thats a great question. The very abrupt and unprepared uturn on a policy that had been in effect for three years was largely because the mere fact that it no longer worked. The Virus Infections were getting out of control. And on top of that, we have seen over the past months a very unprecedented way of protests breaking out all over china and urgent pleas from local governments basically telling xi jinping that, you know, local governments are running out of money, because all the requirements imposed on activities, et cetera. So all those reasons combined that triggered xi jinpings very sudden decision to abandon zero covid altogether. You reported on how a huge manufacturers of iphones in china sent a letter to the Chinese Communist party saying guys, if you dont end this policy, china is going to lose its credibility as a key supplier in the Global Supply chain, and this seemed to have an impact. So i guess the big question is, because everybody has been wondering, is xi jinping, like the Old Communist Party technocrat, willing to adjust based on new data, based on information, or has he become more like mao, a kind of emperor who does not change . It feels to me like your reporting is saying that finally there seems to be some Course Correction Taking Place in beijing. There has been quite a big difference with xi jinpings leadership compared to prior chinese leadership. What is notable throughout this recent process of abandoning zero covid, there have been no active policy debates over how to get out of this policy. Everybody was waiting to hear what the top guy had to say, and in terms of the course correction, i think the jury is still out. Because we have definitely unwided some of the policies implemented over the past few years from the private sector, the proxy Sector Crackdown to most recently zero covid, in a bid to rescue the economy from collapsing. However, you know, public sentiment, private Sector Sentiment has already been badly battered by the policies of the last few years. You know, based on our conversations with entrepreneurs in china, you know, talk is cheap, they say. They want to see more concrete action. You know, will the government start fostering a new generation . Will the government really start to embrace private tech sector again . And thats where i want to go. They have been as you say, there has been a lot of different talk. You have communist Party Officials saying the attack on big tech is over. There are others saying we want people to start Buying Houses again. What a lot of people are wondering, is the Chinese Government trying to get growth at any cost, or is it genuinely now in favor of using the private sector and celebrating and encouraging the private sector . Well, what we have seen so far are really big efforts, trying to get the economy going again. As you said, you know, getting growth at all costs, but we havent seen anything from the mental course correction, empowering the consumer, empowers the private sector. That is the role played by that sector in the economy. We havent seen any of that. Now, under xi jinping, for him, the very big objective, policy objective, is to really fortify chinas economy as china engages in this greater competition with the United States. So the policies we have seen the past few years, have been aimed at doubling down the role of the state, the role of the government. You know, for the long run, yes, we might see a rebound in Economic Activities in the coming months, but a lot of longtime structure issues havent been resolved. Does the government seem willing to spend in order to get the economy moving . Yes, fareed. Thats basically the old playbook for beijing. When things go bad, they rely on construction firms, engineering firms. You know, to restart Infrastructure Spending again. However, i would just add that that group to do that is getting narrower than, say, 15 years ago, because, you know, chinas government, especially local governments, already have been too indebted and also the return from the coming investment is also diminishing. Lingling wei, pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much for having me. Next on gps, the wild weather in california. Events like this are dangerous, disruptive, and very expensive. Ill dig into the staggering costs of Climate Change when we come back. Qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes. Go to getrefunds. Com to get started. Powered by innovation refunds. And now for the last look. Until just a few weeks ago, the biggest Weather Story in california was the states yearslong drought. Reservoirs had been drained close to empty. Crops were devastated, and officials were asking residents to conserve water in all kinds of ways. Today, california has the opposite issue. Too much water. In a matter of days, a series of brutal storms rocked the state, dropping more than a dozen inches of rain in places. San francisco has clocked its third wettest 15day period in recorded history. And the rain hasnt stopped. Now, that sounds like good news, and in some senses, of course, it is. But there is a problem the damage in the golden state from this outbreak of h2o, may cost more than 1 billion. And these destructive storms are not just happening in california. The states chaotic start to the new year continues a broader trend of costly Weather Events in recent years. In fact, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration documented 18 separate billiondollar weather and climate disasters in 2022. These events resulted in the deaths of at least 474 people and caused more than 165 billion in total damages. And these billiondollar events are now happening more frequently in the United States, too. Around every 18 days, compared with every 82 days in the 1980s. Two events in 2022 in particular stood out for the sheer scale and cost of destruction. In midseptember Hurricane Fiona crashed into port key rico bringing with it 30 inches of rain, widespread blackouts and damage to the infrastructure reeling from being hit by Hurricane Maria in 2017 which caused more than 100 billion in damage. Also in september, hurricane ian, the most intense storm of the season, was also the most expensive, raining down an eyewatering 113 billion in damage along with its 115mileperhour winds. The cost of ians destruction rivals some of the biggest storms in recent memory, including hurricane katrina. It was also floridas deadliest storm in nearly a century. These were only the events in the United States. Last years flooding in pakistan caused more than 30 billion in damage and economic losses, according to the world bank. And while europes Summer Heatwave had a big human toll, with statisticians estimating around 20,000 excess deaths caused by the rising mercury, it also had an economic cost. Researchers estimate that heatwaves in europe over the past decade have lowered gdp by as much as 0. 5 . Such extreme Weather Events highlight the gravity of our current climate fight. You see, when we talk about Climate Change, we often talk about ways to prevent future Climate Change. Failing to consider the damage unfolding right in front of our eyes. When big storms hit, communities regroup and rebuild, often without any concern for the next billion dollar Weather Event around the corner. In many cases, our typical postdisaster Recovery Plans fail, dooming those communities to relive the nightmare again at some point. Then theres the case of one florida town where efforts to become more resilient to threats were rolled back in a matter of years. After being brutally beaten by Hurricane Michael in 2018, officials in mexico beach, florida, vowed to build in a smarter way, Building Codes were changed to require new houses to be built higher. Two years later, after a number of complaints about costs from residents, the new Building Code requirements were walked back with local building requirements barely inching above the states. One floodplain Management Consultant told the miami herald that it was hard to watch a community that learned the hard way and made the right decisions, suddenly back pedal because their memory became so short. The fact is that too many homes are built in harms way. There should be clear disincentives to build in flood plains, droughtprone areas and wildfire zones. Until now, it hasnt been politically viable to tell communities not to rebuild after such trauma. But taxpayers may soon tire of footing the bill as storms grow stronger, wetter, and more destructive. Costs will only continue to rise with sea levels. Climate change is here, and its already doing big damage. We need to adapt to this new reality before the bills get even bigger and more frequent. Thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. I will see you next week. Meet leon the third. The second. And the first of them all. Three generations, who all bank differently with chase. 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Org right now. When you do, well send you this adorable love to the Rescue Blanket as a thank you. And a reminder of all the kids whose hero you are. Each and every month. Please call or go to loveshriners. Org right away. Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this sunday. Im fredri