there its also -- this i think is really shocking to people -- there is a kind of intimacy that develops between corrections officers civilian staff, and these inmates. you know in this case gene palmer was working very closely with these two inmates for a very long time. i mean richard matt moved into that block in 2009. that means that you know he got to know gene palmer over a period of many many years. and slowly you do develop levels of trust, levels of understanding, and, and most corrections officers know how to work the gray zone, how to live in that ambiguous place without crossing the bright lines. and gene palmer clearly crossed some bright lines here. >> ed when you hear this about sort of areas that prisoners seem to control and that relationship that clearly existed and grew over time between the people. what do you think? >> i say, gene palmer crossed the line. how do you give an inmate a