kudlow. i'm joined by lars larcentury, nationally syndicated talk show host. they talk about a radio voice. >> this is cnbc. i'm glad to be here as the president starts building the stone wall around the rose garden again. >> listen to the dulcet tones of lars larson. last night we had hugh hewitt. >> great guy. >> he is. i like the way your participates did that. the house oversight committee voted to sanction eric holder who now faces contempt of congress for failing to provide documents in the fast and furious investigation. this as president obama invokes executive privilege, something he railed against as a candidate and as president. who is the president protecting? you know, i'm going to ask what did the president know and when did he know it? in just a moment former speaker of the house and former presidential candidate newt gingrich. also today the dow closes down after ben bernanke signals that he's worried about the economy. so much that he extended operation twist. that wasn't enough. at least we only lost 12 points. we begin with breaking news. president obama invoked executive privilege to try to stop oh contempt of congress vote against attorney general eric holder. it didn't work. pete williams joins us with the details. it must be big. pete williams is joining us. >> or nobody else is left here. i don't think the white house thought they could stop the vote. i think they thought this will key in down the road. this is the fight over documents from last year that detail how the justice department responded when it discovered initial public statements were wrong about the gun operation called fast and furious. before today's vote the president asserted executive privilege over most of the documents. that didn't stop congress from acting. it could make a difference if it all ends up in court and here's why. if the full house finds him in contempt, and it could vote next week, federal law says the u.s. attorney in washington must convene a grand jury to decide whether to prosecute. but the justice department in the past under republicans and democrats has taken the position that the u.s. attorney cannot prosecute if that happens because it would violate the separation of powers. most recently the george h.w. bush administration said this during the contempt battle over former white house council harry myers. a dozen koob net myers have been cited for contempt in the last 40 years. the administration says the president is not claiming executive privilege because he was involved in what was going on at the justice department. they say he was not. instead they say several past presidents, republicans and democrats alike, have raised the privilege to protect communications among government officials throughout the executive branch and they say that's what they are doing here. >> that does answer some of our questions, pete, that nuance. sounds reasonable. many thanks, pete williams. >> my pleasure. >> it seems like president obama has undergone a little bit of an executive privilege evolution since criticizing president bush on the issue in 2007. you might remember this. >> there's been a tendency on the part of this administration to try to hide behind executive privilege every time there is something a little shaky taking place. >> the mere fact that you have the legal power to keep something secret does not mean you should always use it. >> there may be a situation where we'll find out and hold somebody accountable. >> our special guest joining us exclusively is former house speaker and former presidential candidate newt gingrich. you have had gray hair for a long time. with the president -- >> instant transformation. >> we notice it too much. you look the same as you did when you didn't bring contempt to the whole house with janet reno. i see some democrats say even you didn't do that. then we found out from your office that after the panel voted you got the info you needed, so you didn't have to. >> right. >> they are saying even you didn't do it. they're distorting things. far be it for them to do that. >> first of all, that was the house of representatives which was willing to impeach a sitting president. it's hard to suggest the house republicans of the late '90s were softer, more careful or more frightened of taking on the executive branch. i think that's silly on the part of democrats. you know, i thought the quotes you said from obama were so good. i don't know how you get past them. the fact is there is something wrong here. this is an administration which has been leaking secrets like crazy if the secrets are favorable to barack obama. secrets about the middle east have come out that shouldn't have because they make him look better. now they have a bunch of papers that will make the attorney general look very bad. they will make the administration look very bad. suddenly they are claiming secrecy. i think you put your finger on it a while ago. what happened at watergate was a political event. people came to distrust the president. i think the challenge the obama administration now has is they have the attorney general in so much trouble he's likely to have the house vote contempt next week. that makes it untenable to remain his attorney general and makes a very big political problem for obama running for re-election. >> mr. speaker? >> that's my bias. >> mr. speaker, it seems the president is going to take real punishment for invoking executive privilege. but i figure that his fingerprints are on this. i guess what i don't understand -- why would any american president, if he had no contact, no finger prints on this plan and if eric holder truly didn't know what was going on in his own department of justice, if that's the case, i would think they would appear to be heroes if they said, let's investigate it, reveal everything we can reveal from the documents, hand over everything you need to see, even if it has to be viewed to protect confidential sources of various attorney general offices around the country. why else would he want to lock up these document ifs the president's fingerprints are not on this mess? >> you just raised what, in fact, tragically, was the lesson of watergate. had richard nixon after the break-ins turned over everything and said, let's see who's guilty, get it over with, done, it would have been a blip. it would have gone away. he would have served his term. history would have been different. part of what's involved here is american guns ending up killing an american law enforcement officer having been process bid the justice department to the mexican drug cartels. this is a really serious charge. a number of mexicans were killed by these guns. now it turns out the whole thing was a sting that went bad. somebody should have known about it. it makes you wonder what are they trying to hide? >> mr. speaker, let me suggest something that might be a possibility. both president obama and eric holder have been well known opponents of americans owning guns. when the president was a senator in illinois sponsored legislation that would have forbidden gun shops in various places. both are anti-second amendment. they were trying to make the case early in the obama administration that gun rules and rules for americans to buy guns should be tightened up on gun shows and gun shops. i think they were trying to use this to generate the evidence to both crack down on american civil rights while at the same time implicating american guns in going into mexico and, instead. >> sure. >> what they did was got caught at it. is it possible that's the piece of this that the president is concerned about having see public life? >> first of all, what you said is almost certainly true. again, think about this politically. let's assume the president doesn't want every pro second amendment gun owner in america -- and there are more today than there were when he became president. he's been the best president for increasing the sale of arms in modern history. it's amazing the number of guns purchased under barack obama. even if that was the case it wouldn't have led the evening news f. they simply turned this stuff over, had gone through it all, had congressional hearings, the fact is it would have been page seven. by having the fight over whether or not to have the documents they have elevated the fight now so it's a wage one national story. it isn't going away in the time before the presidential election. >> we have the specter of the supreme court coming down monday or next week with obama care. we have the arizona decision which may be a loss for the president. and the house voting on finding holder in contempt, all in one week? that sounds like bad news for the president. >> on top of a bad economy. the fact the federal reserve has no tools left. the problems in europe. the president's failed meeting with putin over syria. he's having a bad summer. a lot of chickens are coming home to roost to dwruse an old-fashioned phrase. let's go back to the current thing with eric holder. they had an opportunity to come clean, get it over with. let the country decide. they would have been embarrassed. it's even conceivable holder might have had to resign because the thing was run so badly. but now it's going to become a major scandal in which the president himself is getting drug into it. that's exactly backwards. the job of the cabinet officer is to protect the president. it's never the president's job to protect the cabinet officer. i think obama has this one backwards. >> mr. speaker, let's shift gears. i haven't had you on "squawk box" in a while. i don't think since candidate romney has been in the spotlight here and also the private equity stuff. it's no longer you anymore. now it's the obama administration. how do you think that's going for mr. romney or governor romney at this point? >> i think the president has such a terrible record on job creation and has the worst unemployment record since the great depression. i think he can't raise any of these issues. every timearack obama talks about job creation he's reminding people what a failure his administration is. over the last five or six weeks his efforts to attack romney have fallen short. people expect an incumbent president to solve problems, not to blame others. when reagan ran in 1984 the theme was leadership that's working. he didn't talk about jimmy carter. he talked about morning in america. obama has gone from yes we can to why we couldn't as his campaign theme. all of it is further weighing him down. >>. >> we had the governor of massachusetts on to talk about -- just wanted to point out romney's track record on creating jobs. it hit me. are you sure you want to talk about track records and creating jobs? it seems the lightbulb will go off in everybody's head when you say that. isn't it? >> this is why they are in such a total mess. mitt romney left office at 4.7% unemployment. at 4.7% unemployment you'd have 5.5 million more americans working tonight than are working under barack obama. how do they get into a job fight with a guy who was at 4.7% unemployment and suggest that he's the guy you can't trust when the president is consistently above 8% unemployment? >> many thanks, mr. speaker, for coming on tonight. >> glad to be with you. >> the speaker's newest book is available now. coming up, ben bernanke does the twist. i don't like the image. laying the groundwork for more easy money pump priming. isn't the summer stall tied to obama care? we'll ask barry. it could be decided tomorrow. unlikely. probably next week. later, romney blurts out that he's looking at marco rubeo for vp while obama has a constitutional crisis on his hands. don't forget. larry's mantra, free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. "the kudlow report" will be back. [ tires squeal, engine revs ] ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] not everything powerful has to guzzle fuel. the 2012 e-class bluetec from mercedes-benz. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services. for exceptional offers if you made a list of countries from around the world... ...with the best math scores. ...the united states would be on that list. in 25th place. let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class. let's solve this. you want to save money on car insurance? no problem. you want to save money on rv insurance? no problem. you want to save money on motorcycle insurance? no problem. you want to find a place to park all these things? fuggedaboud it. this is new york. hey little guy, wake up! aw, come off it mate! geico. saving people money on more than just car insurance. it was it was a volatile day on wall streets with investors following the fed at noon. they sank on the fed news that twist again. it rebounded to positive territory as traders re-read the statement and saw the ground work for potential qe3 come august. we aren't supposed to say the r word for what's happening to the banks in europe but a lot of people think maybe you've got to save some ammo in case things get worse. bernanke took the mike at 2:00 p.m. and stocks went south again. they ended up down fractionally. imagine what the markets would be like if the supreme court knocks obamacare down, could be as early as tomorrow. more likely next week. nobody knows how the markets would react. finally will be able to talk to barry knapp who comes on "squawk box" all the time. thanks for coming in. >> sure. >> you piqued my interest because you say you have charts. it doesn't prove a cause and effect but shows the rebound was looking typical to something akin to 1982 from a deep recession until something happened. why don't you explain it? spl sure. so the jobless claims, the four-week moving average peaked at the same level as november of 1982. then followed an almost identical trajectory before a gap opened up and claims stopped falling. that came in march and april of 2010. the unemployment rate, by the way, in 1983 fell from 10.8 to 8.3. it started down the same path but stalled in the spring of 2010. >> when you put the charts over each other it looks like 82 in 2009. >> identical until the gap opens up. at the same time you can run google search on things like affordable health care and you s see. small and medium sized businesses. the intentions to hire. those started to plunge. dodd frank. we started talking about tax hikes. that became -- you got a surge in businesses naming that. small to medium sized business hiring which had been increasing at 175 a month went to 80. >> this is an important question. whether the sub par recov rec that we are living in is because of the depth of the recession. it was a credit recession unlike other ones or whether we ak uhly hindered the rebound. if you remember they said we're going to keep it below 8% with this stimulus package. they either didn't figure how deep it would be or they wasted valuable time with a year and a half on obama care because it could have been all about jobs. instead we had the argument and a reconciliation. the country watched in slow motion as it happened. the jobless rate went to 10%. >> if we look at the economy this year, capital spending is weaker than expected. buybacks and repurchases dropped off which is a discretionary expenditure. labor investment has weakened. if you think about it in that context, ronald reagan's signature achievement in 1981 in the depths of the t recession was to cut the top marginal tax rate from 70 to 507 and take al other rates down. we had a huge investment. obama had a giant wealth transfer from people who invest and save to those who basically use the money to pay off credit cards. if you throw affordable health care on top of that you impaired public sector spending. >> would you predict if the supreme court throws out the individual mandate that the market reacts positively? >> i would think so. >> lots going on in europe. you never know in a vacuum. thanks, barry. next on "the kudlow report," the geniuses who work at the apple store should be happy they are getting a fat raise. find out how much when we check the headlines next. it's very important to understand how math and science kind of makes the world work. in high school, i had a physics teacher by the name of mr. davies. he made physics more than theoretical, he made it real for me. we built a guitar, we did things with electronics and mother boards. that's where the interest in engineering came from. so now, as an engineer, i have a career that speaks to that passion. thank you, mr. davies. ♪ i hear you... ♪ rocky mountain high ♪ rocky, rocky mountain high ♪ ♪ all my exes live in texas ♪ ♪ born on the bayou [ female announcer ] the perfect song for everywhere can be downloaded almost anywhere. ♪ i'm back, back in the new york groove ♪ [ male announcer ] the nation's largest 4g network. covering 2,000 more 4g cities and towns than verizon. rethink possible. probably not worth probably not worth stopping the presses for but the fallout from europe's crisis is hitting u.s. terms. here's more on that and the latest breaking headlines coming to the cnbc newsroom. do they actually come into the newsroom? >> right here behind you. there you go. >> whoa! you snuck up on me. >> the story you were just mentioning. caterpillar dealers are reporting a reduced growth rate in europe, africa and the middle east. down to 4% for the three months ending in may from 14% through three months through april. the ceo said europe is a risk to be watching. the quarterly ceo survey shows fewer large companies plan to hire or raise spending in the coming months. 36% of the round table members plan to add members. most expect sales to increase in second part of the year. and the geniuses and other apple employees will see pay go up as much as 25%. the dow jones industrial average reports an internal apple review found wage levels at the stores a common complaint. apple confirmed the icloud users had access issues for several hours today. but icloud was back online by mid afternoon. finally the ama house of delegates, the policy committee for the big doctors group didn't endorse taxing sodas today but did say any money generated from a sugary soda tax should be used to fight obesity. that's somewhat fair, right? >> no. when is the last time -- do you drink soda with sugar in it? >> i do, yeah. crazy. >> it's been so long. if i'm going to get 200 calories, i'm going to enjoy something. >> what would you enjoy? >> cheesecake. like caramel macadamia nut. if it's soda it's diet. i'm not wasting it. >> people should use that methodology. >> didn't the ama sign on to obamacare? >> of course they did. 17% of doctors. >> we have to go. thanks, seema. coming up, a congressional panel tries to hold eric holder in contempt as the fight over fast and furious documents escalates. we'll talk to a democrat from vermont and a republican from utah next. [ male announcer ] when a major hospital wanted to provide better employee benefits while balancing the company's bottom line, their very first word was... [ to the tune of "lullaby and good night" ] ♪ af-lac ♪ aflac [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. [ yawning sound ] you you don't have that on radio. >> no, no. >> welcome back. i'm joe kernen here for larry. lars larson is here with me for the entire hour. you are anchorman-like. you were on tv for a while. >> for a while. they said i had a face for radio and they kicked me out. >> i love having you here. >> great to be here. >> listen to your voice. [ deep voice ] this half hour -- i can't do it. something president obama railed against, executive privilege. how will candidate obama explain it? bob schrum will try when he faces off against vin weber. i had jack walsh on "squawk box" this morning. he says managing a small business is no different from managing general electric. how with all this regulation and taxation can any business survive? good question. the house oversight committee back to contempt of congress resolution against holder this afternoon. it's headed for a full house vote presumably next week. we'll see. darrell isa said after the vote in his words there is still time for contempt of the house to be avoided if, in fact, the documents that we have asked for are delivered by the time that the house has scheduled for a contempt vote. joining us now are oversight committee peter welch, democrat from vermont and jason chafitz from utah. is this political or is it really the thing that makes the most sense at this point? >> we're trying to get to the bottom of what's an absolute disaster. the attorney general called fast and furious flawed. you have a dead border patrol agency. weapons missing, purposely give en to drug cartels. nearly 3 million people killed in mexico. we deserve the opportunity to see that it never happens again. it's not a witch hunt. it's about truth and justice and making the reforms necessary to ensure it never happens again. >> congressman welch, you have seen it in the past. a lot of times it's never the crime. it's the cover-up. it makes people think there is something there when there is resistance to full disclosure. do you get that much? >> that's actually the point. everything jason said, i agree with. the democrats and republicans want to get to the bottom of this. this is on going through two administrations. it started in the bush administration and ended in the obama administration under attorney general holder. the question of contempt, such a serious question. many of us on our side felt we had to lay the foundation to justify such an extreme action. the foundation would have included bringing in the attorney general during the bush administration. also, the original subpoena was very overly broad until last friday. it was literally asking the attorney general to provide information that the law prohibits him from providing like grand jury testimony. >> congressman. now we found out that attorney general holder misspoke. right? i don't think he did know. in fact, i think he hasn't been apologized to. didn't it come out as another thing that holder had to backtrack on about what was uh true? that's what started this in the first place -- erroneous statements. >> mistaken statements that the justice department has acknowledged. but if we are getting to the bottom of this, who knew what, when? that kind of question. you have to start in the beginning. the beginning was during the bush administration when the attorney general mckayzi was in charge. also there was a different leadership in the alcohol atf. a complete different -- it would be comprehensive. >> you say it started during bush but it was a smaller operation done with the knowledge of the mexican government. then that operation, wide receiver, was ended. the obama administration brought in a much expanded operation that was sending thousands literally of weapons to a country in the middle of a drug war. so to compare the two, think, is highly inappropriate. this administration was trying to make the case for taking away america's gun rights and saying to people, you can't buy at gun shows and you can't buy at gun stores because, see, the guns are going to mexico when, in fact, it was the obama administration sending guns to mexico. >> it's not about making a comparison. it's about looking at it from the beginning. there is no dispute that the policy, this tactic was took cooked up in phoenix by the atf there. in fact, there is not a lot of evidence that the ags in either case were directly involved in this. if it is a comprehensive investigation you start at the beginning, go to the end and go to where the facts bring you. >> all the facts. congressman, did the president know what was going on? or did the attorney general keep him in the dark or was it just local agents doing it without anybody up above knowing what they were doing? >> we're trying to get to the bottom of that. that's what we are trying to know. it was march 22 of 2011 president obama in an interview on univision said he never heard of this. i asked attorney general holder in 2012 if he had spoken to president obama about fast and furious. he said he had not. the bottom line is we don't have all the facts. that's why we issued in october of 2011 a subpoena asking for the very basic documents. not to get in the way of an investigation, but to figure out how we got lied to. february 4, 2011, the department of justice sent us a letter and it was a lie. ten months later they retracted it because it was full of lies. that's the problem. >> if the president knew nothing, holder knew nothing why would the president be working so hard now to keep out secret? you would think he'd want it out, too, in a transparent administration. >> if he was never involved how can he put forward executive privilege? 9:45 this morning we got word that they would invoke executive privilege. where did that come from? if the president wasn't involved in the decisions it beg it is question, was he involved? that's a legitimate question now. >> what are the chances that this goes to the full house next week, congressman? >> nearly a 100%. i spoke to the speaker on the floor. for democrats to demonstrate a reason to slow down. they have a dead borter patrol agents, thousands of missing weapons. we have to move forward with this. >> what did you call it? >> watergate with a body count. >> that's cold. but true. many thanks to house members peter welch and jason chaffetz. joining us now is senator chuck grassly, ranking member on the senate judiciary committee. senator, is that just defacto if yo invoke executive privilege it had to do something with your office? i saw you make the point that if you knew nothing about it you can't even do it. is that a fact? >> i think it is an abuse of executive privilege. why did it come up at this midnight hour. because for # 18 months that i have been seeking documents and 15 months that the house has been seeking documents there has never been one claim of executive privilege. even 24 hours ago after the meeting withholder, there was never any claim of executive privilege there. so why does it happen? what are they hiding? it raises more questions than answers and it puts the administration in a deeper hole now and probably needlessly involves the president because i have never suspicioned the president on anything in regard to this, until now. i think i have reason to -- suspicion, what did the president know and when did he know it or why did he want to kplam executive privilege for nothing that had been brought up before? >> the vote today, exactly down party lines. most americans i would probably say don't understand what we are talking about here. does this have the potential to put us deeper into the morasse, the divisiveness? we have an election coming up. is this productive? >> the basic tenets of the constitution are at stake here. we are a government of law, not a government of man. the constitutional issues are this. congress passes laws. we have a responsibility to make sure that they are faithfully enforced. that's called executive -- that's called congressional oversight. and we have to have information from the executive branch to get answers to our questions and see if the laws are faithfully executed. when guns are illegally sold, the illegal selling is promoted by the justice department. there are murders as a result of it. this overrides any question about political motivation. for this senator, there can be no question of political motivation because i think in the three decades that i have been doing oversight, i have a reputation for equal opportunity oversight. i have probably gone after this stuff more with republican presidents than with democrats. >> senator, i think you're right. you have done that. you have been an equal opportunity pursuer. tell me this. after the vote next week, if the entire -- if the house votes and says we'll find him in contempt, what more can you do to put pressure on the president to come clean on this? if the president didn't have his fingerprints on this he should want this information? if he did have his fingerprints on something that led to dead bodies and thousands of weapons to a foreign drug war the american people should know about it. >> well, i will use all that i can. but my power is limited because i'm in the minority. we can't issue subpoenas in the senate. as republicans. we're not getting the cooperation of democrat leadership on this issue in the senate. so i intend to continue my investigation. most of the information will come from whistleblowers. >> yep. >> i will still give speeches trying to make it public. and i'm counting on people in journalism like you using your first amendment privilege which is the best policeman to make sure our system works. >> thank you for that. in all these months of investigating and i appreciate the fact that you bulldogged this thing. do you have some inkling as to what it is the president is trying to hide? >> not the least. i do know we have traced it to the assistant attorney general landy brewer that he was involved in ten months of misleading congress when he said in his first answer february 4, 2011, to my letter of a week before then that there was not such a thing as fast and furious. they eventually had to admit they were lying. >> senator, thank you. we appreciate your time tonight. up next, getting back to business. company owners learn new strategies for success. still ahead, shaping the presidential race with executive privilege and the veepstakes. you can prevent gas with beano meltaways, or treat gas with these after you get it. now that's like sunblock before or sun burn cream later. oh, somebody out there's saying, now i get it! take beano before and theras. and somebody asks me a question about the volt. what really blows them away is when i tell them i almost never go to the gas station, despite the fact that they see me driving to work every day. i fill the volt up once every -- maybe once every couple of months. and that feels absolutely wonderful. i'm hardly using gas, but it's there when i need it. anybody that thinks that this car doesn't have solid performance, hasn't driven it. there's no other car like this on the road. ♪ you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. 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[ all ] i'm with scottrade. do you want a growth engine in this economy? it's small business. can they become superstars when there is all this government overreach, taxation, unionization? a lot of zation. tonight the biggest names in business match up with the entrepreneurs who hit it big. brian sullivan hosts the event. good evening, brian. >> thanks, joe. we have something cool tonight. it's a cnbc back to business town hall event at 9:00 eastern time. reairs at midnight. if you missed it the first time what we have done is simple and cool. we have five smart successful, powerful people, all in one room with 500 people in the audience down in atlanta to fire questions at them about small business, entrepreneurship. we have steve case, sarah blakely, the youngest self-made billionaire in america -- she founded spanx. we have the head of the sba and a silicon valley hot shot. with you in mind, joe, we picked this sound bite just for you. >> my name is neil hannan. i worked for 20 years in large companies. now i have become an entrepreneur and a small business owner. i believe capitalism is under attack. i believe if you take the incentive out of businesses, it tears at the very fabric of small business and the engine of growth in this economy. i believe that government needs to get a little bit out of the way because -- [ applause ] >> it seems at every turn they are asking for more. frankly, i'm flabbergasted. >> here's what neil brought up and he's right on. i don't want to make government more supportive of small business. i want to get rid of it completely. [ applause ] we don't need more government. if you think of the '60s, want a lemonade stand at the end of the driveway, you did it. today you have the grovt wanting to issue a permit, somebody making sure the lemonade doesn't drop below 50 degrees. >> okay. should government get out of the way? >> one thing the president has been clear about is making sure we get rid of regulations that hurt small business. >> there's going to be a role for government. part of it is figuring out the tools to make it easier for people to access capital or talent. >> you're talking about government here. for decades america never needed government to create great businesses. year after year entrepreneurs took risks, failed often and that's part of the process. i don't feel that's the way it is anymore. we don't always have to look to government to figure out what to do next. we have to let companies fail. >> you can see the question for the audience. they are not holding back. we have that, discussion, practical advice. motivation techniques. it's going to be a great event. cnbc back to business special town hall event at 9:00 eastern time on cnbc tonight. i'm sure you'll tune in. >> absolutely, brian. 13 hours ago we were talking about the same thing. >> hardworking guy. >> up next, center stage in presidential politics. obama invokes presidential privilege and the romney veepstakes. your money, your vote. we'll be right back. 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[ male announcer ] we began with the rx. ♪ then we turned the page, creating the rx hybrid. ♪ now we've turned the page again with the all-new rx f sport. ♪ this is the next chapter for the rx. this is the next chapter for lexus. this is the pursuit of perfection. welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm joe kernen here with nationally syndicated radio host lars larson. obama invokes executive privilege, the first of his presidency. and the romney veepstakes. marco rubio, rob portman and tim pawlenty. could a dark horse contender still emerge to shake up the race? the silhouette looks like paul ryan to me. here with me is robert schrum, long time democratic strategist and vin weber, republican strategist and mitt romney economic policy adviser. i've got to start with you, bob. are you sure. nothing more than a goofy fantasy on the part of issa. can you at least concede that the president did talk a good game about transparency? he talked like he really didn't like executive privilege. it at least looks like -- you know, it has a bad smell to it, at least, did you want it? >> the kind of comments you're referring to are the kind that senators make in a prepresidential period, or governors do. people complain about it. then if they get elected president they invoke executive privilege. uh it goes back. ronald reagan invokes it in cases similar to this. one was an attempt to investigate oil leasing and another investigation of how the investigation was conducting the super fund. i think this is a political side show. i don't think it's central. in fact, i don't think it's peripheral to the outcome of the election. people who are mad about this aren't going to vote for obama in first place. >> this is lars larson. we have one dead american, hundreds of dead mexican nationals, thousands of guns to a foreign country in a drug war and you say it's a sideshow? >> it's a political sideshow. i was asked about the political impact of it. i'm not making a comment about the person who lost his life. that's awful. this program started, as you may know, under the bush administration. it was ended by eric holder. it's folks like you trying to turn it into a political football. >> i'm suggesting this. was the president involved in this? was -- >> of course the president wasn't involved in this. >> why didn't they know what was going on in their own administration? >> of course the president -- there is no evidence whatsoever that the president was involved in this. this is the same kind of conspiracy mongering that's gone on ever since he got elected. no court will uphold a contempt citation against the attorney general of the united states. i gave you two cases that are very directly on point and you don't respond to them. >> if he's not involved then why not say let's open the documents and show america what happened? >> because this creates precedence. you don't want to create a precedent that will bind you and future ps to putting out these documents. >> a president of openness, of transparency. >> were you as upset, by the way, with george bush for doing it over and over again sp. >> i was upset with president bush on a number of things and i said so on my show. >> did you complain about him on this? >> on this issue, no. >> executive privilege. >> no. the bush administration ran this in cooperation with the mexican government, discovered it didn't work and largely shopped it. the obama administration came in, i believe, with a political agenda to show americans shouldn't be allowed to buy guns. >> it was erveg holder. it was still going on. >> i want to get to you, vin. the romney people came out with not really a strong criticism of the whole thing. it was like, well, you know, we talked about transparency. this is another thing he's going back on. do they need lars larson to issue the press release next time to sink the teeth into it? >> being from minnesota, anybody names lars larson can't be all a bad. >> thank you. >> it gives me pain to see bob defending a practice most associated with the nixon administration. bob, i love you. i'm sorry you're in this position. >> reagan did it six times. all the way back to the beginning of the pe public. >> what bob said about this being a nonissue, not involving the president may have been true until today. when the president invoked executive privilege he said to us, bob, that this involves him. >> no, that's not it. >> executive privilege is not designed to defend the attorney general. it is designed to defend the office of the presidency. if the presidency is not involved why do we have executive privilege involved? >> ronald reagan invoked executive privilege on the conduct of the super fund, not t because he was involved in something illegal but because the congress had no reason at that point to intrude into private executive deliberations. >> between the white house and the cabinet. >> john kennedy directed maxwell taylor not to testify about what happened at the bay of pigs. >> about deliberations between the presidency and his cabinet. is this president -- >> no, no. vin, you understand that executive privilege -- >> and the cabinet. >> executive privilege is not just about the president. it's about the separatiadminist >> the whole administration, i understand. >> it's about issues in which they are not involved at all. you guys have to get it right. >> this is his watergate. >> you keep dreaming, buddy. >> watergate with a body count. >> yeah, i know. that's another outrageous and irresponsible statement. it's a lot like the disrespect that's been shown to holder all through this. >> bob, holder has already admitted giving inaccurate information to the congress more than once on the topic. >> he volunteered it when he discovered the information was inaccurate. >> cbs outed him on that. >> we'll come back and do this tomorrow night. thanks, bob and vin. we didn't settle it. we'll get to the veepstakes tomorrow. just to let you know, larry had surgery. it was successful and he's resting well. we hope he'll be back soon. recently, students from 31 countries took part in a science test. the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to talking, there is no fee.
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