then reach a conclusion about the direction that awaits us. first let me give you the bare case because that is most salient right now, because until this morning, the bear case had suddenly come to the front. the durable goods numbers, further reduction in gross domestic product. they all pointto -- diverse is -- as well as what we now regard as a pathetic apple iphone. you can see why people would be petrified about the earnings. you would like to think this is all an am nomly if you're bullish. and the economy has a little rough patch before it accelerates again. what happens if this is the rough patch that causes companies to slam on the brakes, this is no longer a fiscal cliff but a fiscal retaining wall. when you see that -- we have gone from thinking we can jump the fiscal cliff to thinking how can we slow business spending so that the collision won't destroy us? it's not just the u.s. that was a drag. china, there's a big hate on china right now. china is big halt. no. big mall cat no cattle. the worst downturn in two months is more representative of what's happening because there is no unity between the rich and poor nations. don't they show that there's no real hope for fis rcal reform i that war torn country. today's action, it's phony. me and many portfolio managers buy stocks and move them to the end of the quarter to get a little gain there. the conclusion, if this were monday coming up, a new month, a new quarter, you would have seen this entire markup window dressing period, the deal, and we were right back into that downturn that just began and has much further to go. these are some real heavy negatives that could turn even the most optimistic of the bulls into bears. let's take a peek to the bullish side. just when we were starting to be afraid of what's going on in europe despite the rise, offering exactly what the richer companies like germany want to do to hold up their end of the deal. second the chinese market, it rallied hard last night and that could be a sign that we're about to get more stimulus in everyone's favorite come mist country. today general electric joined the con tcontingent of companie. general electric the former parent company of this network, it's particularly heartening about china, and they raise questions about maybe we are being too gloomy about the country's foration. third our fiscal retaining wall still beckons. they rallied hard today, these moves could be a sign that all is not lost. plus we got some high profile number boosts from brokerage houses from bank and home builders. you know what you don't get earnings estimate -- as far as those managers that want to lock in performance, i think there's far more managers that want to gain performance by buying the weakness. there are money managers that want to lock in gains. we know that the -- do you think that they would be willing to lock in a perspective defeat against the benchmark, when we're not even in the fourth quarter yet, there simply aren't enough winning managers that can afford to lock in a game. this is how apple was able to break its fall. perhaps if you get so many money managers still done on it. and the company's are in any orders for the iphone and are going to have such wait list. i don't know how poorly the launch is actually going. we do know that apple is a stinker. but if it's so bad, why do so many people want the phone? where do i come out? my take, i think this rally is not predicated on anything in the u.s. in order for this move to continue, we actually need an end game in europe and a stimulus in china. so my bottom line, if we don't get real positives in europe and china, we're not done going downing. but if we do get those from those huge trading partners, that will offset the fiscal retaining wall that we will remain hitting. lorraine in my home state of new jersey. >> caller: yes. >> hey, lorraine, what's up? >> i'm calling about econo. >> a lot of peopl are on the fence as to whether natural gas is actually done going down, and i am not concerned about the -- i think the f rrk acing stories are overdone. canada had a very good statement today talking about it. i think the issue in canada is that you've got to have natural gas. i need to go to justin in indiana. justin. >> caller: boo-yah jim, it's justin. i want to know what is your thought about these home builders going higher? >> every time a home builder has a dramat-- i want to own it. paul in tennessee. paul? >> caller: hey, jim i was just wanting to call and ask you about metro pcs, especially with the most recent rumors about industry consolidation. i was wondering what your thoughts were. >> you have have to be sprint to buy them, or t-mobile. i thont don't think either is going to buy them. you should be trimming positions that i don't like on the fund mbls and that's how i recommend stocks, is the fundamentals, not rumors. the pool haul is definitely in china's court, if they come out with positive news, they could go higher, remember, you always have to look at stocks from both sides now. coming up, rapid results or is sure technology a leader in diagnostic tech proproducts. cramer is getting instability answers on this new opportunity in biotech when he talks to the company's ceo next. and rising in the east, the headlines hit, the market rallies, but which talks are actually worth owning in china. . plus answering the call. telco cloud play 8 by 8 gave us a ring and cramer is all rears when the company's ceo gets in the hot seat, all cominging up on "mad money." >> don't misa second of "mad money." follow at jim cramer at twitter. have a question, tweet cramer, hash tag mad tweets, send jim an e-mail at "mad money" at cnbc.com. or give us a call at 1-800-743-cnbc. miss something in head to madmoney.cnbc.com. how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there. for over 60,000 california foster children, extra curricular activities help provide a sense of identity and a path to success. joining the soccer team. getting help with math. going to prom. i want to learn to swim. it's hard to feel normal, when you can't do the normal things. to help, sleep train is collecting donations for the extra activities that, for most kids, are a normal part of growing up. not everyone can be a foster parent... but anyone can help a foster child. we are always looking for new opportunities here on "mad money." that's why i wanted to introduce you to one of the most intriguing, speculative stories around. it's called osur. it's a tiny health care outfit that's described by market capital. company made products for collecting saliva testing. for diseases like hepatitis c, and hiv as opposed to more invasive blood or urine based tests that people are less likely to take. last year osur came out with the first hepatitis c test on the market. then we got the real game changer. the beginning of july, the fda approved the hepatitis test. it's an hiv test that you can actually buy over the counter. the only one of its kind and this one could go a long way towards helping to diagnose the hundreds of thousands of people who don't know they have hiv. that's why the stock spiked up to $13.36. since then it's pulled back, $10.36. a week after the fda gave the go-ahead, a big secondary offering sold $75 million worts of stock at 1$12.30. the stock is admittedly quite expense especially when you consider that orasur is -- let's check in with doug michaels, he's the president and ceo of orasur technologies. welcome to "mad money." >> thank you, jim. >> so i go to walgreens, i got to cvs next week, what are you going to snow. >> hopefully you're going to see that product on the shelf. we began shipping to retailers last friday and saturday, obviously the product is in transit to our retailers and they have to get it out into the stores. it's going to be in 30,000 stores as well as available online. >> you've got every detail in there. you talk about how the stores themselves are going to get behind this. i presume therefore i'm going to maybe see a display, we don't know which ones, this will be readily visible, it's not going to be on some aisle where it's going to be tucked away? >> response from retailers has been extraordinarily positive. the retailers are actually cutting the product in offcycle. normally they reset their stores twice a year and it's going in right now. we're giving retailers a couple of weeks to get the product on shelve and then we're going to go out with our communications folks and build awareness about the product's availability and promote trial and repeat purchase. >> is that advertising certain websites? tv? how are you going to go with this? >> all of the above. we're going to work with the retailers to give on sign pro motions. we're going to be in new york city, we're going to use celebrity to get on a lot of the different talk shows. >> what about the people who have hiv. >> we haven't disclosed what celebrities we're going to use, but sufficiee it to say that they're well known. the first hiv test that you can take in the comfort and privacy of your home, there's really no excuse why people don't know their hiv status. >> there's a lot of reasons why people might not go to the doctor and request an hiv test. certainly there's still a lot of stigma associated with hiv. there's about 1.2 million people infected with hiv here in the united states, jim and about 20% to 25% of those individuals are unaware that they're affected. and what's most concerning is it's those individuals who are affected but unaware. they're responsible for 50 to 70% of the forward transmission. so our objective is to put it out there to make it easier for people to know their history status. >> do you envision a world where someone has unprotected sex, they would go to the drugstore and get this within 72 hours? >> we have spent a lot of time making sure consumers can understand the appropriate use of the product. it's not designed to detect infection immediately after someone is infected. but it's the exactly the same technology that's used in doctors offices and the public health centers. this is the rapid leading history test in the united states and now we're making it available to consumers. >> our show has been focused on hepatitis c. you've got a test for it, but you just don't think -- you talk about it as a billion dollar opportunity, but it's not as big for your company as this one. >> we haven't said that. >> all right, good. >> the hepatitis c opportunity is every bit as exciting as this product's available over the counter. hepatitis c is about five times more prevalent than hiv here in the united states. there's about four to five million people infected with hepatitis c and about 2/3 of those individuals are unaware of their infection. there's a huge reservoir of unprotected infection. >> when i go to my doctor, should i be asking for a hep c test? >> the cdc just recommended that all baby boomers, everybody born between 1954 and 1965 be tested for hepatitis c. >> and that's your product that we'll be using. >> absolutely. it's a 20-minute test, it's highly accurate, it's laboratory accurate and it's out there in the market right now. >> we had the ceo on his big tv show. you have got a genetic problem that is and -- >> they are the market leader in oral collection systems for molecular diagnostic, ancestry.com makes their products and makes it available to their products so they can get better information about their gene yolg. there's another company that provides a consumer service for people who want to know what their genetic profile and any genetic risks. >> i don't want to embarrass you, but you are a total heavy hitter. this is not -- it's been around for a while. but mr. michaels spent 19 years with j. and j., you ran ortho clinical diagnostics. so this is a business -- why did you leave? >> those are the two best diagnostics in the country. >> i thoroughly enjoyed my experience with abbott and johnson & johnson, two of the finest companies in the world and i had a great career with those companies. i was approached by the board of directors at orasure technologies and they talked to me about the promise of these technologies, about the opportunities to really make a big impact on public health and i said let's do it. >> i want to thank you, that's doug michaels, president and ceo of orasure technologies. they have got the absolute best up to date information from mr. michaels, i want you to do the home work before you take a shot or make a big investment in this company. coming up, rising in the east? the headlines hit, the market rallies, but which chinese stocks are actually worth owning. and later, answering the call. >> if they want to come on the show and tell us why i'm too bearish, i welcome them. >> cramer is all reears when th company's ceo gets in the hot seat, all coming up on "mad money." customer erin swenson bought from us online today. so, i'm happy. sales go up... i'm happy. it went out today... i'm happy. what if she's not home? 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[car alarm blaring] call now and also ask about our 24/7 support and service. call... and lock in your rate for 12 months today. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? we keep seeing this in our headlines. stocks advance because of the hope for chinese stimulus. this headline is recurring and used for any rally. so perhaps it's worth parsing where we are with the chinese stimulus. first we always get exciteded about potential stimulus from china, when we see the stock market roar at the end of the day, like it did last night, with the closely followed index of the people's republic. that makes sense when you consider the european stock will rebound when the rich companies agree to help the poor ones, stocks can foretell events and often do. however, there have been so many false tales or indications about that totally unreliable and fixed stock market over there. and we shouldn't get too excited about a chinese rally. chinese remains in a hideous bear market. it has fallen back to -- to rather than get our hopes up, i think we should temper our expectations about when and how large the stimulus will be, while at the same time slicing our applications about how bad things really are. the idea that china could still expand at a 5%, 6% clip is outstanding. expectations remain too high over there. that said, we often have too many stocks over here that go up when even a whiff of a chinese stimulus program. it's important to separate what should rally versus what does rally. when you speak of infrastructure, that's what it's going to be stimulated. china has a lot of -- they've got tons of aluminum, even if it's a high cost and dirty producer. that means stop making coal off. again, that makes no sense, unless the chinese economy can absorb all this deal they dump worldwide. i find that highly unlikely. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be buying the ingredients of steel which the chinese don't have. think iron, i like vla, think vle. secondarily to any copper. that's fcx. how about machinery? although it is a second derivative, meaning it won't happen immediately, they will need engines and trucks and earth movers. cat said negative things but those are the only two worth going with and those companies won't see a bump in time to save their quarters which is actually what matters. you can include general electric in machinery, and today the ceo said china is going to be a use driver for earnings, that led to increase our earnings for ge. people want to buy joy global, i don't know. finally there will be a step up in oil demand, and that scenario i think is very investable. the chinese will need to import and when they do that, you will want to own not many of the major oils and imports. you need international drillers and service companies. they make the actual rigs in deep water drilling. now let's be fair, everything does go up on a real stimulus story. and if you get actual stimulus, holy cow. but here's the bottom line, i just want you to realize that what you can own, which is just the above and what needs to be sold as a trade, which is pretty much everything else, and there's no real stimulus, then these favored nation stocks will most likely get clocked harder than any other stocks out there. let's go to eric in wisconsin. eric? >> caller: hello, jim, a big brew city boo-yah. >> done your way. what's up? >>. >> caller: elgin natural resources they just released their 2012 guidguidance, what d thank you think? >> this is a gamblers stock, and i don't want to gamble. let's go to steve in florida. >> caller: boo-yah, jim. >> boo-yah, steve. >> caller: i just wanted to say thank you for everything you do for us people. >> i'm doing my best, thank you for that, it's great that you said it. >> caller: i have made enough money, jim, i moved from pennsylvania to florida this month. >> good for you sunshine. i was talking about doing that judgment the other day, saying you know what? when this gig is over, which may not be for another 40 years, i would move to florida. >> caller: it's beautiful, but my big question is here is winn resorts. we all know winn is twaes $125 stock, but with winn slipping here again, even though they were up a little bit today, with the china stimulus, that's going to help the stock come back up, isn't it? >> i agree with you, i got to tell you winn surprises me that it's down that much. vegas hasn't been that hot. i'm bullish on wynn. that hunt mean it can't go down ten, but i think it does go up 25%. >> bill. >> caller: my question is this, gm is already doing well with china, with the proposed stimulus package they're talking about how do you think gm is going to fare. >> europe is just absolutely terrible for them. two, while china may come back, i don't know how much money they can make on cars, but most importantly, the u.s. government is still a great big shareholder and that stock's going up, boom, you get slapped up side the head with a big gob of gm stock. bulls in the china shop, it's still important to temper your expectations. too many stocks go up on a whiff of stimulus. many stock also go down if there's no stimulus. coming up, answering the call. >> they have want to come on the show to tell me why i'm too bearish, they're welcome. >> cramer is all ears when the company's ceo gets in the hot seat just ahead. when you take a closer look... ...at the best schools in the world... ...you see they all have something very interesting in common. they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education. let's invest in our teachers... ...so they can inspire our students. let's solve this. you know what i love about this country? 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[ male announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. . it is time for the lightning round. are you ready? lightning round. brian in maryland. brian? >> caller: jim, good evening, we love jim cramer and staff in tacoma park, maryland. >> i'm loving that and my staff loves its too because it's the% there is. what's up? >> caller: please talk to us sir about pan american corms. corporation. >> i prefer the slv, there are a lot of people at jim cramer saying i don't like silver. i don't dislike silver, i just like gold more. >> arlene. >> caller: jim, my stock is on the pharmaceuticals. yesterday when that was down, that's one of the first time i have seen it down. this is really terrific. i want to own that. barbara in oregon. >> caller: hi, jim, i benefitted from your advice in the past for which i thank you, but i would like your opinion on excelon, exc. >> i happen to think this stock at this level is good. i would love excelon's match and come on the show and say what i think which is that i think the stock is inexpensive. go to david in california. >> caller: the stock is universal display, and to the ticker is mel. >> not a fade. this is, i got to tell you, flat panel display infrastructure is so competitive. look, i am very -- i am wary of it. i'm wary of the stock, let's put it that way. i need to go to jerry in hawaii. jerry? >> caller: yes, jim, a big island aloha boo-yah from hawaii. i have been listening since january and i'm up 10% on my money, thank you so much. i want to congratulate you on listening to your children's dietary wisdom and i think the products. so i was happy to hear you recommend it. but it's come down over $15. >> sometimes a decline is a viable decline. the stock is up today but it's come down way too much, and therefore i think you got to pull the trigger. the fundamentals are great, i can't believe you've been given a big decline to be able to get into it. i need to go to ed right now in new york. >> caller: i big buffalo boo-yah, jim cramer. >> cj spiller is down. a boo-yah back to you. it's your third choice. go ahead. >> caller: thanks for all you do for us home gamers, jim. i really appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> caller: my stock is sandrich energy. >> i would put sandrich in the same category as i have put heck and magnum hunter and key. these are all let's just call it speculative plays. i need to go to jay in georgia. jay? go ahead, jay. >> caller: this is jay out of atlanta, georgia. i'm asking about river bend technologies, i see here they did a little something today and i wonder if it's still -- >> it's an up stock and everybody wants to be in it and i'm not going to touch telco stocks, and i have lost too much money recommending telco stocks on this show. let's go to marilyn in pennsylvania. >> caller: hi, boo-yah, jim cramer. >> boo-yah. >> caller: i'm 80 years old living on my investments. however most of my certificates of deposits pay 5% or more are now maturing. >> right. >> caller: and i wanted to know what you thought about altria. >> although politically it's not correct, that is a good, good situation because of the 5% yield. no stock is as safe as a cd. i'm not saying that. i am saying that this is a good yield play if you want some income and i think the earnings story is very solid. and that ladies and gentlemen is the conclusion of the lightning round. >> the lightning round is sponsored by td ameritrade. 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[ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice. . as an investor, you simply cannot afford to be wedded to your own opinions. finding smart places to put your money is all about being flexible. when i say something negative about a stock, i am always willing to at least listen to the other side of the story. especially when i come on the civil eght. it's always very speculative. it's given us a tremendous amount of speculation over the years, i subject that it might be better to -- 8 by 8 has gone through a huge transformation over the last decade. maybe i'm alluding too much to the well far away past. eight years ago it was a semiconductor company. >> businesses that use 8 by 8 services do not need to purchase phone equipment. i still think the stock is highly speculative. so it can always be risky if you chase it. but with these caveats in mind, let's give brian martin, the chairman and ceo of 8 by 8 a chance to tell us more about his company and why it might be a worthwhile investment. >> when i say something that's tough, management comes on, they want a shot, here's what i do. i'm giving the floor to you, because i already took the floor, you've got it. >> we are a technology company, and as you said, we have been in the communication space many, many deck indicates. we -- we started in the home phone market and now we moved into the business market which has been extremely profitable and extremely fast growing for us. who is right now servicing these customers that are are taking business from. >> my average customer bought 14 lines from it. that's a tiny end of the small business market. most of these customers have att or verizon as their wireless company. >> it's win stream competitor. >> win stream is one of those companies we're probably taking a little bit of business away from. we're not just the long distance provider, but we're bringing in a turnkey solution, the phone, the service, we become your long distance provider and we give you capabilities and feature to attach yourself to an rooirks phone or a google tablet. >> we know cisco as being a company that has provided a lot of equipment into this sector. you seem like a partner of cisco, but someone who cisco might not want to part with. >> cisco is a venn domplt -- our 100 million -- a lot of people get excited these days. whether it be interdigital, value of patents, we know that with motorola. it was bought by google because of the patents. >> we were issued our 83rd patent today. the communication space especially in voice is a patent mine field. there's a lot of ip out there, goes back to att and all of those big portfolios. the fact that we have been been an it company, we certainly don't have the thousands of patents that some of those entities to have. it's enabled us to sell patents to some of the prailayers out there. we do cross license exchanges. it's a vital part of our business, even though it may not show up on the top line every quarter. >> mr. mews si, he's the ceo of paychecks, he's talking about how small business, how the formation is not good. how much is the -- does the pie heart? i know you're taking share in the pie. but the small business market is not growing in the company that we know of. >> fcc actually twice a year publishes access line data. the past two diction-month periods, access lines are going down for the last two years. they've stabilizeded it's not like we're going up tremendously. even while the market is declining, the penetration of this type of technology is already at 89.2%. the home phone line market, which had the early voice over. >> you don't really reach the small business market by asing. >> we employ a nationwide call center in san jose, california. we also in the last 18 months started elselling to larger companies. our lastest must is actually 1,500 extensions. those are being sold through channel partners. and that's tapped into those customers. >> i think it's a compelling story, i always like to admit when i may have moved too quick to be able to say be careful. it's still speculative because of it's size, but this is a different play from sales force.com. it is a cloud play in its own rite, definitely. that's brian martin, chairman and ceo of 8 by 8. lots of stuff on the web, if you want to learn more about the story, more compelling, certainly more compelling than i thought the story was. we have lots to anticipate as we start the fourth quarter on monday. as i said earlier, depending on what comes out of europe and china in the next few weeks, there's real potential for this market to go higher or sink lower. my job is to help you make money no matter what happens no matter which way the seesaw goes. this is where you call me, you tell me your top five holdings, i tell you if your portfolios what matters is that we learn. so let's s.t.a.r.t. wi-- am i diversified. >> r sgi suntrust. >> let's get to work. >> ebay is really a bank, as well assen exchange. suntru suntrust, that's a bank that we have been selling for a travel trust. apple is tech obviously and corner stone is tech. corner stone recommended dramatically lower and i want to take profits in corner stone right now. and yes, it is time for this portfolio low own bristol myers. they have a bank and they would have tech and then i would feel that -- by the way, i'm not signaling ebay and apple the same, the reason is because ebay is pay-pal. and pay-pal is more like visa and mastercard. let's go to patrick in connecticut. >> boo-yah, jim, thanks for taking my call. my top five holdings are intel, google, chipotle, gt advanced technologies. gtat. and gill yang giantss. >> i'm going to say point blank, i'm going to give you why this is not a diversified port folio. it's got too much high risk in terms of stocks. chipot chipotle. basic knowledges -- only intel with a 4% yield is not speck. and gill yad is a highly up and down crazy stock, that said, okay, you have an internet company, you've got a tech company, you've got a tech company that's very, very similar. keep intell. you have a buy owe tech company and you have a food company. i need to see some diversified industrials. something like a ge in there would really help. and then i think we'll be in good shape. but please, cut the risk profile because a down 100 day, that portfolio is going to be down 5%. let's go to jim bow in michigan. >> thanks for taking my call. my five stocks are apple, aapl, intuitive surgical, pepsico, johnson and johnson. disney. am i diversified, jim? >> let's go to work here. for jimbo, which is what my sister unanimous always calls me. j and j, pharmaceutical, pepsi, disney, entertainment, intuitive surgical and apple is technology, you got technology, you got pharma, you've got beverage, you've got entertainment and medical. intuitive is different enough from j and j that i'm not going to say it's not diversified. i'm going to bless that. purists would say jim you should make him sell the surgical. let's go to nathan in maryland. >> caller: boo-yah, cramer, nathan in maryland, my stocks are abbott, adp, jp morgan, jpm. att, and target. >> sorry, i buzzed you because i don't want to run out of time. this is a really important portfolio. why? because stephany, action alerts portfolio also on "fast money" today. we were both thinking this is the stock that we should be buying, philip morris international. abbott, pharma, good yeelgds in all these, good growth, tobacco, retailer, pharma, bank, telco. that is, they tan's portfolio is the winner tonight. stay with cramer. you know what i love about this country? trick question. i love everything about this country! including prilosec otc. you know one pill each morning treats your frequent heartburn so you can enjoy all this great land of ours has to offer like demolition derbies. and drive thru weddings. so if you're one of those people who gets heartburn and then treats day after day, block the acid with prilosec otc and don't get heartburn in the first place. [ male announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. humans -- sometimes life trips us up. and sometimes, we trip ourselves up, but that's okay. at liberty mutual insurance we can "untrip" you as you go through your life with personalized policies and discounts when you need them most. just call... and speak with a licensed representative about saving on your policy when you get married, move into a new house... [crash!] or add a car to your policy. don't forget to ask about saving up to 10% when you combine your auto and home insurance with liberty mutual. security, coverage, and savings. all the things humans need to make our beautifully imperfect world a little less imperfect. call... and lock in your rate for 12 months. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? seconds away on the kudlow report. robert craft tells me the inside scoop on the referee deal. did they cave in to the unions? and benjamin netanyahu gave a speech today on red lining iran's nuclear weapons. the kudlow report is moments away. >> everybody's exciting about research in motion because there's always a bull market somewhere and i promise to try to find it somewhere for you. i will see you tomorrow. there's a lot of bad economic news today, but instead, pretty good stock market rallied. why is this? we'll cover it. good evening, this is the kudlow report. our top story tonight, having failed to get what president obama should have done as the leader of the free world, that is draw a red line for iran's nuclear development. instead benjamin neah