Transcripts For BLOOMBERG With All Due Respect 20160528

Welcome to the brilliant world of Yinka Shonibare, the britishnigerian artist who works across a variety of forms, including painting, film, sculpture, and dance, creating pieces that are full of wit, color, and fantasy. Yinka being an artist is a form of dreaming and awake, being in your art is different from the reality of the world. Being an artist is a place of escape from the terrible things that sort of happen in the world. And i like the complexity of art. It is a very, very complex thing to be involved in. It is not easy because no one will give you answers. And i like the challenge of facing blankness and creating out of blankness. I am somebody who likes to sort of reflect and think about society generally and express things in a very engaging way , but in a kind of fun way. My name is Yinka Shonibare, and i am an artist. Clare with yinka, he is stepping sort of so beautifully between issues and between forms of work. He said himself his job as an artist is to create a wonderland, to enchant, to engage people, and that is the beauty. You are seduced into these works , and little by little, they reveal themselves. [please stand by] danda what is exciting with what he does is a lightness of spirit. A lot of artists feel they have to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders, particularly artists from the african continent, and to see him address issues in a lighthearted way that entertains the audience is a really important part of what artmaking is about. Here is someone that looks into the details of the history, the details of the pieces he is crafting, and he is able to marry this piece with politics. Stephen he explores serious issues in a way that is always humorous, and there are very few artists who feel as comfortable as yinka does sweeping the past, and gauging with the present and engaging with the present and asking questions to his public. Narrator although he was born in london in 1962, yinka grew up in lagos, nigeria. Yinka nigeria was independent when i was growing up. But lots of the british influences were still left. Militaryr before the regime, it was a free and vibrant period. I remember a nigerian position on tv being sentenced to jail. Politician on tv being sentenced to jail. That kind of defiance i saw. People who challenge the system. My parents were shocked when i said i wanted to be an artist. I think they would have preferred me to go to law school. My father was a lawyer. Narrator at 16 years old, yinka left nigeria for england to attend wimbeldon school of art school. Yinka i went for three weeks. I passed out in the college basically. , two weeks later, i woke up and i was told there was something wrong with my spine. I was completely paralyzed. I could not move anything. Narrator he had contracted cancer myelitis, a virus in the spinal column. A neurological disorder that renders the spine from communicating with the rest of the body. Yinka i had to learn how to do everything again. I had to learn how to drive and get myself back to art school again. But important point is if you , have to get on, you do get on. And also it depends on the personality of the person. I want to get things done, and i am very excited about what i do. So the disability is just finding different ways of achieving the same things. When i went back to art school, i was introduced to politics, and i was relatively engaged in politics. So i made work about a strike going on in russia. One of my tutors saw that and asked why i wasnt making authentic african art. I needed to find out really what he meant, and i was looking for what authenticity what might , constitute authenticity, really. I just found african masks and, you know, ritual african ritual objects, which at the time i felt had no connection to my modern african life. Narrator challenged by his teacher about why he wasnt producing art that looked african, yinka found inspiration in brixton london. ,yinka i went to brixton market and found some fabrics there. Rose when you come here, you get everything you want. My favorite one is this one. I like these colors very much. We call it obaapa. Obaapa means good woman. We use it for dresses. Menus it for shades. Men use it for shades. This one is two for 40 pounds. Yinka i always imagined the fabrics were authentically african, and i was told the fabrics are engineered fabrics, produced by the dutch, but i like to that history of the fabric, and i like the Global Connections of the fabric and the trade routes of the fabric. The fabrics are a very good metaphor for a contemporary african existence, if you like. That is how i started to incorporate the fabrics into my work, and double dutch was one of the first pieces i made on fabrics. Narrator created in 1994, double dutch is a series of small, square paintings influenced by the dutch wax cloth. Now with his own take on african authenticity, yinka was on the verge of a breakthrough. Narrator as a young british nigerian artist, Yinka Shonibare was working in london in the 1990s. His signature use of dutch wax cloth was gaining him recognition within the art world. Yinka i was in an exhibition with a friend. Chile satche came in. Chile satche was collecting contemporary art. In fact, he was probably the only person collecting contemporary art. He liked my work. So i canceled my work to chile stache. Narrator even yinka could not have known how much this chance starcher with chile would affect his career as an artist. Finding his stride, he won the prestigious award in 1998. Yinka the paul hamlyn award was an award for my projects generally. I moved into photography by the time i got the paul hamlin award. Underground. Ced by i was influenced by visits to a Albert Museum where i saw a number of , victorian costumes, and i was thinking about my background and the colonial influence in nigeria. The paul hamlyn award made it possible for me to give up my day job and focus on everything i needed to do with the work. Stephen in truth, i wasnt very aware of yinka except by name until the sensation exhibition at the royal academy, which i think was in the autumn of 1997. Seeing him and his work take its place on this stage of exciting contemporary artists was a revelation to me. He was different in the gentleness and the exuberance and what seemed to me the optimism of his work. Yet, infused with a slightly menacing, strange undertone. Dr. Checinska i really had such a vivid memory of first seeing yinkas work. The first piece i saw was mr. And mrs. Andrews without their heads. And it was on display at the v and a, the victoria and Albert Museum here. For the first time i could see , something related to my own history, as someone of africancaribbean heritage, but living here in the diaspora, living here in london. Yinka i developed what i described as edna sizing the the stop ethnicizing arrest accuracy, aristocracy using those fabrics to produce , aristocratic things. I decided not to show the heads , because i didnt want my figures to have a fixed race, and i wanted them to be more like metaphors as opposed to specific individuals. And of course, i also did that in the beginning as a joke about the french revolution when the guillotine was being used, and the aristocracy had their heads chopped off. And so that was just like, that was partly as a joke. In the 19th century, there was a conference in berlin, and the conference was known as the scramble for africa. The European Countries took it upon themselves to do this without actually asking the local people if that is what they would actually want. Quite difficult to force people together to be in a country. Nigeria being a very good example of that. And that is really a legacy of colonialism that has been explored in my work. I found this building in hackney. I do works on paper, and i do those here. So lots of the ideas are developed here. Depending on how much work is required, i work with a number of fabricators. Dee a fellow costume maker was approached to work with yinka. And felt that hurt cuffing skills were not her cuffing skills were not up to it and , thought it would be up my street, and it is and i love it every day since. Yinka dee is very good, able to interpret what i want quite well. Dee most of the communication happened through alva, who would be yinkas righthand woman. The whole Creative Process comes alva through yinka and having a meeting and discussing costume design they will we ar and the fabrics they will meet. This is what we would get from yinka. The fabric is cotton. It is not difficult to work with, but the fabrics create a problem to work with. And visually, i always feel as though the patterns should be mirrored on the body. That is a challenge because they are always in quite a dramatic pose. The patterns are not symmetrical. I think yinka has referred to it as his voice, so i always think of that. Dr. Checinska you have this person that is both an artist and a designer, something in between. But he is also a political activist if you care to look beneath the playfulness. He is also a philosopher, here is someone that uses cloth to speak about many things. Narrator in 2010, yinka turned his hand to public art. And on the grandest of stages. Nelsons ship in a bottle. At londons trafalgar square. The criticallyacclaimed work is now on per minute display at the National Maritime museum in greenwich. Yinka nelsons ship in a bottle is the battleship of admiral lord nelson. Who won the battle of trafalgar. I basically put the hms victory in a of the ship, in a giant bottle with African Textiles for sails. It was very wellreceived. It looked magical. In trafalgar square. Alistair howick it related directly to nelson and the whole panoply of sort of imperial might and the establishment of the british empire. But at the same time, he rather plays fun with it and rather ridicules it because he puts the flagship into a bottle and turns it into a souvenir. Narrator working across a variety of forms from painting to public art, performance and film, yinkas latest focus is on environmental issues. Narrator celebrated artist Yinka Shonibare is known for his bold and colorful work, which engages with contemporary issues. Yinkas recent exhibition in new york, rage of the ballet gods, explores Climate Change with globeheaded greek gods. But this is not the first time he has taken on big subjects through metaphor and imagery. Yinka i made a work called black gold, which is dealing with the issue of oil. Clare oil represents 90 of nigerias export wealth, wreaking great devastation on communities, to the environment setting up , polarities of wealth and poverty. And he made a piece called flower cloud, which was a really beautiful ballerina, larger than life size on top of lifesize, on point, on top of a broiling black cloud of oil. And of course, yinka was playing with ideas of this socalled elite art form, ballet, and ballet . Es filet making something extraordinarily beautiful. Yinka my work is not about trying to preach politics or being moralistic about what people should do. But essentially, they are kind of poetic explorations, really, of ideas. I am in sympathy with some of the ideas of William Morris. William morris was a socialist, and he was very inclusive. He believed in an egalitarian society. Dr. Checinska there is a complete meeting of minds, i feel, between William Morris and yinka. Both have this joy around the decorative, both have a political side, both have a philosophical side. And so, both of them, to me epitomize this idea of art for , everyone. Beauty in and through the everyday. Yinka i mean he wanted ordinary , people to have nice designs but ironically, no ordinary , person can afford them. And you know, but things are very wellcrafted. So i very much like what he stood for. In the spirit of William Morri elgalitarianism, i wanted to produce a project that was inclusive, so i got the members rtomstow toic in wa reconstruct his family albums. Milyn William Morris fa album, we see yinka step away from the more obvious connection to africa. We see William Morris family in a new way. There are brown faces, there are black skinned faces, there are anglosaxon faces. We begin to see this idea of what makes up a contemporary family. Narrator Yinka Shonibares celebrated position has enabled him to be an artist for the people. Within his studio, there is a project space, a platform for emerging artists to show their work. Yinka generally the idea is to have more of a kind of socially engaged studio. And the idea also is to encourage independence. They fund their own project, they raise money for their own projects. They do the marketing, and put own put up their expeditions, exhibitions, and they get a residence in this space for one month. They are free to come and go as they wish. They can either use the space to make work or to just do the exhibition. And they do a number of educational projects like screenings and so on, or parties. You know, it is up to them, really. We want to cast the net assets far and wide to get many people to come down. As far and wide to get many people to come down. It is about broadening the community and getting people into the space. And any art form. Not just fine art. We would like to have dancers and circus performers. It is a way to mix things up a bit. It has become quite expensive around this area as well for artists to rent a space. So while we have a great reputation and a great audience around. This can help artists who are not really established to show their work. Yinka things are different now in the sense that art is much more established as a profession. When i was growing up, it was actually a profession to avoid. It was not even considered a s a profession. I think it is good there is a proper market, and especially as the world has actually opened up, so art has become much more global. Stephen the art world is different because of his presence. It is enriched by his presence. He has exercised influence by releasing people from some of the conventions that they have worked within in the past. Dr. Checinska i think that he absolutely inspires and makes one feel that anything is possible. It is very accessible, so youre able to talk about difficult issues like difference in sexuality and race and culture. It touches on all of our need to belong, all of our searches for family. And i think that is the strength of it, because it shows there is a connection between yinkas work and everyone. You know, the Human Experience really is what he is talking about. Danda his voice has been heard for a while. And i think he has influenced a lot of african artists. He is a part of the establishment, and that is not something that we would have expected 20 years ago. He just wants to make really good art that he is proud of and that is a real inspiration. The challenges facing our world are growing all the time. How do we build stronger economies with equal opportunities for all . How do we build a Sustainable World for generations to come . How do we protect our cities and harness the power of technology for our Common Benefit . Humanity has always been good at forward thinking. In this series using the latest , Bloomberg Research and analysis, we will make sense of the problems of tomorrow. Inequality, sustainability, urbanization, the gender gap and the demographic time bomb. And in this film, the march of the machines. What effect will Artificial Intelligence have on the world . Of work . The machines be doing your job . Will machines be doing your job . Does the rise of the robot mean the fall of humanity . The world is changing. Today, we stand on the brink of a full Industrial Revolution , one that will transform the way we work, the way we live, and even what makes us human. There is a group of technologies that are combining to create transformation across almost every industry at the moment, and those technologies include Artificial Intelligence, 3d printing, robotics, big data, and Life Sciences in terms of genetics and medical engineering. And these things are combining in a way that is bringing about a host of transformative changes across industries. I would describe the fourth Industrial Revolution actually quite similar to how i would describe the past three. And that is technology that leads to Massive Gains in productivity, and Massive Gains in productivity means substantial improvements to everyones quality of life. Narrator the world has been through revolutions before. The advent of mechanization, then electronics, then the digital revolution profoundly changed the worlds economy. But this revolution could be even more disruptive. I think in previous revolutions, you could really talk about them as Industrial Revolutions changing how things , were made, factories, heavy industry in particular. Here you are seeing transformation across a whole range of not just injury industry but services and new Business Models that didnt exist before. What is different of little bit about this particular revolution is that it gets into a whole range of things people that were only possible for humans to do, jobs that were human jobs before are not going to be human jobs anymore. Narrator at the heart of this fourth revolution is the heart is Artificial Intelligence, the ability of machines to match and surpass the cognitive ability of their human creators. What is happening now is a big deal. It is making a big difference in the way people live, interact with each other. It is obliterating distance. It is in some ways removing humans from tasks that we once thought were the sole province of the human mind. What we that only a human brain could do, algorithms can do machines can do them. ,narrator these are early days in the brave new world of Artificial Intelligence, but the benefits are vast. One of the liberating things of Artificial Intelligence, there are actually lots. If you think of driverless cars, ai, that could have a really liberating impact. If you think about older people who can no longer drive, they are very shot in their houses right now, dependent on others for transportation. With driverless cars, they would go about their daily life. You are seeing with big data this may have a profound impact on drug development. There are News Pharmaceuticals new for mr. Nichols at a faster rate because consumer computers can sort through the data that would otherwise be missed. For help in particular the advantage is immense. Those have an incredible chance to address very infrequent diseases and diseases which affect different parts of the population very differently. If we are going to cure cancer it is going through data , science. Narrator there is potentially a darker side to this technological revolution, one which could change the world of work as we know it. The technological revolution will cost jobs. It will cost jobs in the areas that see the biggest advancements first. A good example of that that is feasible over the nearterm is truck driving. You have self driving trucks, you dont need the 3. 5 million Truck Drivers you have now. In the u. S. What is key, as part of this revolution, as the economy continues to evolve and new jobs are created, you need to make shares those displaced workers are given the skills to move into these new positions. Will all of them be . No. But you need to make sure that if you lose 3. 5 million jobs, how do you create more than that in another sector . In past Industrial Revolutions, that is what we have seen happen. Hopefully if that will happen again. Narrator what if this doesnt happen . Martin ford is a Software Entrepreneur. He appeared into our future and sees the world where hundreds of millions of skilled workers are out of a job. I would say that if you look far enough into the future there , is no job anywhere in our economy that is completely safe. That includes even artists and know, the and you kinds of jobs you would imagine now are completely beyond the scope of Artificial Intelligence. Millions and millions of those jobs are going to be lost. It is unlikely enough jobs will be created to absorb those workers. Narrator martin ford is a Software Entrepreneur who has a chilling vision of the future. His bestselling books have put him at the forefront of a movement which worries about technology, the speed of growth and the immense potential it has to change the world. This is the fourth Industrial Revolution, the advent of machines powered by Artificial Intelligence which have the potential to make redundant hundreds of millions of workers across the planet. It is a world that is nearly upon us but which governments , and businesses are only starting to comprehend. Well the central idea in my , latest book, the rise of the robots, is that over time machines, computers, smart algorithms are going to substitute for human labor. I think that is inevitable. Technologies eventually going to be able to do many of the things people now do and there is a chance that will result in an employment. Unemployment. Many people are going to find impossible to adapt to that because they are not going to have capabilities that exceed what machines can do. That is going to be a genuine concern for our society and for ultimately for the economy. Narrator some of those machines are already with us. There are already algorithms that can interpret things like body language and respond to some extent to emotion and determine your mood, for example and so forth. This has big implications. Imagine what that could mean for the example for advertising if an algorithm can determine how you are feeling and target advertisements that you at you based on that . Some of the language translations are truly remarkable. Imagine if anyone in any country who speaks any language would now be able to do any job because we have perfect Machine Translation in real time between languages. That has real implications for the job market obviously. Narrator we may be already starting to see the effects on the wider economy. In the first decade of the century, the net total of jobs created in the United States was zero. What we see is in the United States, we have been having what we call jobless republics. Clearly there is something happening there, and part of what is happening is that jobs disappear when a recession happens, and finally when recovery comes back, companies can Leverage Technology to avoid hiring workers. It is taking harder for jobs to reappear. Narrator throughout History Technology has disrupted , economies and societies. In the 19th century, 50 of u. S. Workers were employed on farms. By 2000, it was less than 2 . Those workers found work in other sectors. But martin thinks this time it , is different. What transformed agriculture was a specific mechanical technology. Now we have a technology that is you notice that is ubiquitous, acrosstheboard. Artificial intelligence is something that is scaling across our economy. It is not just impacting one sector. It is something that is literally everywhere and as a , result, there isnt going to be any safe haven for workers. Narrator what makes the new technology so ubiquitous is the development of a new virtual world, the world of big data. Big data essentially is the collection and use of massive amounts of data. Big corporations are collecting all kinds of information about their customers, about their business operation, about the actual processes in industrial environments and factories. About the things that their employees are doing. All of this data essentially becomes a feedstock for these stock algorithms. It is information that used to learn and figure out how to do things. That is something that is going to be dramatically disruptive going forward. Narrator the total data stored on the worlds computers is now believed to be well over 1000 billion gigabytes. And it is big data that is driving the most disruptive advance in technology, the ability of machines to think. One thing you that you will very often hear from folks today is that computers only do what they are programmed to do. This is really not right anymore. The reason it is not right is because machines are learning. We now have this technology that allows Smart Software algorithms to learn, to look at data and based on that, learn how to do things, to figure things out, to make predictions. It is no longer the case some human being is sitting down and telling a computer exactly what to do stepbystep. Computers are now having the ability to figure that out for themselves. You can imagine a future where every device every appliance, all kinds of Industrial Equipment communicates and talks , to each other. And i think one of the things that will happen is that Artificial Intelligence will use that as a platform, it will scale across that. Everything will become more intelligent. Narrator the last great technological advance sought robots replace millions of workers on production lines. Martin believes this new disruption will target the whitecollar workforce as well. Once a computer learns to do something, then that information can be scaled to any number of machines. It is almost like you can imagine having a workforce of people, you can train one employee to do a task. And then you could clone that worker and have a whole army of those workers. That is a bit like the way Artificial Intelligence works. Machine learning is very scalable. If you have the job where someone else, another smart person could maybe watch what you are doing and study everything you have done in the past and figure out how to do your job it is a good bet , eventually there will be algorithm that will come along and do the same approach. That is a lot of jobs. Many of the jobs which might be displaced are those currently occupied by educated, highly paid workers. You can see really acrosstheboard anyone sitting in front of a computer doing some sort of predictable knowledge work, for example if there cracking out the same report the same analysis again , and again, all of that is going to be very susceptible to this. Journalism is an interesting area. There are now systems that can then they can and transform that data into a compelling news story. Many people would read and they cant tell that it was written by a machine. In the future, maybe 90 of new stories will be machine generated. Narrator the number of jobs displaced has the potential to utterly transform the economic landscape. Other of been a couple of studies done, most notably by researchers of oxford university. The results have come back suggesting up to half of the jobs could be susceptible to automation perhaps over the next 20 years. Narrator that 60 million jobs that is 60 million jobs in the United States alone. That is a staggering number. And obviously we have a massive social problem. You have tremendous stress on government trying to take care of all of these people who no longer have an income. You see the potential for massive economic downturns. You would run out of consumers. You no longer have people that are capable of buying the products and services being produced by the economy. Narrator a revolution on this scale would not just transform an economy, it would have immense implications for our society. We could really have just what you might call inequality on steroids. The very wealthy people who own all this technology will do extraordinarily well. You have the potential for civil unrest, even riots or massive crime rates. In the United States during the great depression, we had an Unemployment Rate of about 25 . Back then, there are many people genuinely concerned that would result in the collapse of both democracy and capitalism. Narrator this situation amounts to just about the end of the world as we know it a , sciencefiction nightmare straight from the movies. There are some very prominent thinkers like, for example Stephen Hawking and elon musk , who have raised genuine fears artificialnce of intelligence. They think we will build a super intelligent machine, 100 or 1000 times smarter than any living person. I wouldnt think . How would it think . How would it act . Would it have a use for us . It may decide we are a burden and get rid of us. It could present an existential threat. Is that something to worry about . It is not something we should laugh at. It is not something we should dismiss. There is really no endpoint of to this. No point to say this is as far as we can go and machines will never go beyond this. We are reaching a new era of time when things are going to operate differently. We need to adapt to that. Narrator health care is one area of the economy adapting to this disruption. And in this field researchers , hope intelligent humans and Intelligent Machines can Work Together for everyones benefit. Narrator the fourth Industrial Revolution, the era of Artificial Intelligence has arrived. Computers are mastering tasks once considered the sole preservers of humans and putting millions of jobs at risk. And now Business Leaders are wrestling with the potentially huge implications. In general, robots of one form or another will be become omnipresent in our lives. In a good way. We will replace a lot of repetitive activities that people are currently doing. Robots will have a dramatic effect on the labor force. Lower the cost of products. People will realize every manual task will eventually be done by a robot. Narrator martin fords books have highlighted the threat to the job market. But even he sees areas where Artificial Intelligence could be beneficial. I do think that health care is one of the areas where the impact of Artificial Intelligence and robotics could be extraordinary positive in the future. The burden on our economy is growing at a remarkable rate in the United States. If we can apply more Artificial Intelligence to make it more efficient, that will be a great thing. Narrator Analysts Expect the Ai Health Care market to generate revenues of 6 billion by 2021, 10 times its current total. Young Companies Like hindsight in new jersey and another in california are mining data to improve Patient Outcomes across a range of illnesses. And in new york, ibm researchers have developed watson, an Intelligent Software system at the forefront of this revolution. It can understand somebodys personality type. It can look at email and tell you what is the tone of the email, you know what kind of , messages are coming through. If you want to read them or not. They can look at, for example a , big encyclopedia, extract the concepts among those concepts. Narrator watson operates in the world of big data extracting , knowledge from the billions of facts and figures from inside cyberspace. I look at the world from the point of view of the amount of data that there is and the amount of knowledge that is embedded or inside the data that we are not able to extract today. Therefore we are not able to make the right decisions. So for the Industrial Revolution to me the ability to , have a much better understanding of the world through all of the data, making and therefore making better decisions for it. Narrator ibm is currently running a Research Project in which watson augments the intelligence of medical professionals, helping doctors treat the most dangerous diseases in the world including skin cancer. Melanoma is a very deadly form of skin cancer. It is something where Early Detection and intervention is key. So a dermatologist faced with a patient who has a skin lesion will make some assessment about the likelihood of a lesion being melanoma. So unfortunately today, dermatologists can make errors. Some skin lesions are being missed. And some skin lesions which are perfectly benign are being excised needlessly. What we can do here is essentially ask the computer to make a deep analysis over an image. So this image is then being sent to the computer and it is being automatically analyzed. With a computer is telling us is telling computer us about this image is that there is a very high probability that it corresponds to melanoma. What we are finding in our internal retrospective research is that the computer can be as accurate as 95 . So this compares to the best Clinical Experts today that are between 75 and 84 recognizing melanoma. It is not a tool that would replace the Clinical Experts. Rather, it provides them with additional analysis over the skin lesion images by providing reaches into large databases of similar lesions. Narrator this is a vision of the future where humans and machines work handinhand, complementing one anothers skills. I look forward to a time when every professional, in fact, 2,000,000,000 to 3 billion professionals around the world are all able to have their own personal cognitive assistant to help them do their daily jobs. That changes the nature of expertise. Humanity would move to a completely different place and how we apply our knowledge and experience into realworld problems and therefore make the world a better place. Just like we have had machines that could augment peoples muscles in the prior Industrial Revolutions, or can help people , you know search vast amounts , of information like the internet era. I look at the next revolution as machines augmenting peoples cognitive abilities. That is how i think about it. Narrator martin ford remains cautious. Believing Artificial Intelligence is going to fundamentally change the way we live and work, and challenge us like never before. Martin we are not prepared for the disruption that is coming. We are going to see things get worse before they get better, in particular, the impact on the job market and the impact on the incomes and the livelihoods for average people. In the shortterm, things could be pretty difficult, but in the longer term, if we do adapt to this, there are reasons to be optimistic. You can imagine a utopian kind of future where no one has to do a job that is dangerous or that they really hate, or is really boring. Where Technology Takes on more and more of that. If we can get to that point, that is a tremendously positive outcome. All of that is possible and it could be one of the best things that has ever happened to humanity, but it will require we adapt to it. That is going to be staggering challenge. Welcome to this edition of the best of with all due respect. Republican party got to taste two newnew brands brands. We also took a brief trip back to the 1990s. So you think you are a 1990s fan . Ok, donald, can you handle this . They were the best of friends