Government, has got to look to what is happening in libya, a huge ungoverned space and apparently a source of some awful extremism. But was manchester a consequence of our Foreign Policy . Manchester was a consequence of one person going into a music event and killing a very large number of people, there can be no defence whatsoever of that. So nothing to do with Foreign Policy . I do not in any way change that view. That is just a vile, horrible event and those people have got to be brought to book. Obviously, the one who did it is dead but there appears to be a whole connection of them. I made the point that if we are to have a secure future, weve got to look at ungoverned spaces around the world and the consequences of our wars of intervention. This is notjust me, as i said, this is mi5, its Foreign Affairs select committee, its a number of other people. But im struggling to find the role of Foreign Policy you see Islamic State was founded well before the invasion of iraq. Its murdering people across europe because it hates our values. Only last year they said this, some might argue that your foreign policies are what drives our hatred but this particular reason for hating you is secondary, even if you were to stop bombing us, we would continue to hate you. Our primary reason for hating you will not crease to exist until you embrace islam. Its a totally perverted form of islam. But its not Foreign Policy. No, its not islam at all, what we have is a total perversion of islam there. The point im making and the point that many others have made, not of necessarily labour opinion, or any other, quite a wide range of opinion across the spectrum is that you have the consequences of our interventions in afghanistan, in iraq, in libya, leaving large numbers of ungoverned spaces, leaving people in a desperate situation, who themselves may become prey to that form of perversion, and i think it would be unwise of any government to ignore that but that is exactly what the Foreign Affairs select committee pointed out. But theyre targeting young girls at a pop concert because they hate our values, they said they hate secular, liberal societies. Its not Foreign Policy . I agree, they hate those liberal values, they hate the idea of women being able to enjoy themselves and all the liberal values and that was the whole point of my speech this morning. Weve got to defend our liberal values. Sure but wheres the Foreign Policy . I mean, what was the Foreign Policy of sweden . The result of even sweden being attacked . The Foreign Policy issue has to be for all of us. What is happening in a number of countries, where we have intervened and where there is a lack of any coherent form of. But wouldnt we be attacked anyway . Well, andrew, shouldnt we look at where the sources are coming from of those attacks . Surely any sensible person would want to do that. Well, youre the one that raised Foreign Policy today. What was the Foreign Policy . The yazidi women, enslaved and sexually assaulted and killed. The Yazidid Women What was their Foreign Policy . Andrew, i am not defending any attacks on women or anybody else. Im not accusing you. Thank you. What im saying is that it would be unwise of any government or anywhere in the world to ignore the issue of instability across the peace which gives a space for that kind of perversion of islam to take hold. Barack obama has said as much, many others have said as much. Youve called for, your phrase was, smarter ways today, to deal with countries harbouring terrorists but you wouldnt put boots on the ground, you wouldnt bomb the terrorists, you wouldnt use drones to take out the Terrorist Leaders so, what would you do . Would you talk to them . No, i wouldnt. Isis doesnt come from nowhere. Isis doesnt get its money from nowhere. Isis doesnt get its arms from nowhere. Isis does have a whole lot of connections around the world, financial and others, which i think need to be robustly chased and followed. Thats it . Thats the smarter way . Well, thats a good start for doing it. Its very vague. The other one is to look at the situation in libya, where you have a lack of government, where you need stronger presence of un diplomacy in order to bring about the start of some stronger form of government there, otherwise youve got a problem which isnt going to go away and that is a view that i put forward in what was intended to be a thoughtful contribution this morning of how we deal with these things and i think youll find, actually, quite a lot of public will not disagree with what ive said. Well, we live in an age of terrorism, thats clear. One of the most important responsibilities of being Prime Minister is keeping the british people safe. Why would the british people want as their leader, a man who for years supported the ira . I didnt support the ira, i dont support the ira, what i want everywhere is a Peace Process, what i want everywhere is decency and human rights. We went through all the horrors of Northern Ireland, all through the 70s and the 80s, through the period of the troubles. And eventually came from that, a Peace Process, the good friday agreement and now relatively peace and stability and actually, Northern Ireland has been a bit of a model around the world. It certainly helped in the Peace Process in colombia. Its a model that is used in trying to bring communities together in south africa and other places. I think theres something we can all learn from Northern Ireland. Where the two big divides, the nationalist tradition and the unionist tradition, came together on a basis of recognising a different tradition each had. Thats quite powerful. You say you didnt support the ira but you invited convicted ira terrorists to tea in the commons, a few weeks after the brighton bomb, which tried to destroy our elected government. You stood for a minutes silence to honour, your word, mr corbyn, to honour, ira terrorists killed by the british army. Throughout the 80s and the 90s you spoke at scores of hardline republican gatherings which backed the ira and the arms struggle. I always wanted and always do want peace. Always want a dialogue between people of vastly different backgrounds. And the minutes silence you referred to was in 1987, it was for all who had died in Northern Ireland. In honour of the eight ira terrorists who had been killed. That was the purpose of the meeting. I said all those that had died in Northern Ireland. I made that very, very clear. But the purpose of the meeting was to honour these terrorists. As you went to all these hardline republican meetings, they were backed by the ira and its apologists. At any time publicly, did you urge them to give up the bomb and the bullet . I always said that the Bombing Process would never work. There wasnt a Military Solution to be found in Northern Ireland. I made that very clear. I made that very clear in the house of commons. But did you urge the ira to stop the bombs and the bullets or its front people that you did meet all the time . I never met the ira. I obviously did meet people from sinn fein, as indeed i met people from other organisations and i always made the point that there had to be a dialogue and a Peace Process. Now a lot of people did a lot of work on this, and eventually it was mo mowlam as much as anybody else, who managed to bring those groups together and she used a lot of connections in order to bring those people together and i think we should recognise that as. We certainly recognise mo mowlam, its your role im trying to find out, because the former ira terrorist leader, Shaun Ocallaghan, he says quote you played no part, ever, at any time in promoting peace in Northern Ireland. He said the peace you sought was a victory for the ira. Well, ive never had a discussion with Shaun Ocallaghan. Ive no idea why he will say that. As far as im concerned, the whole process had to be that there wasnt going to be a Military Solution in Northern Ireland. The Prevention Of Terrorism Act that affected a lot of my constituents was something that was actually criminalising young irish people mainly in britain but also in Northern Ireland and that there had to be a dialogue. Now that dialogue did come about. We had the first ceasefire, eventually. But you dont play in role in that . My role was supporting a process which would bring about a dialogue and i believe you have to talk. The British Government at that time was putting a Broadcasting Ban on sinn fein, a travel ban on sinn fein, and a series of anti terror legislations which were not really doing anything to bring about fair convictions. Remember, i was also the constituency mp for one of the guildford four, paul hill, who was the first person arrested under the Prevention Of Terrorism Act, and eventually was freed. But that doesnt mean you had to speak at over 70 hardline republican movements. Now you may not have heard of or dealt with Shaun Ocallaghan but you will have heard of and met the highly respected sheamus mallon. He was one of the architects of the Peace Process. He was at the heart of it along with john hume. Sheamus mallon says quote he never heard anyone Mention Corbyn at all in the Peace Process but you very clearly took the side of the ira and that was incompatible with working with peace. Sheamus mallon. He never said that to me in parliament. He said it. I dont doubt he said it at some point. I was happy to talk with him. Happy to work with him and john hume and others in parliament, and i was a member of the Northern Ireland committee of the plp in which we visited Northern Ireland and met men people there. Isnt it the truth, is it, that you basically supported the supported the arms struggle for a United Ireland but now you want to be Prime Minister, you have to distance yourself from it . No. What i want is peace. What i want is to learn the lessons from Northern Ireland and also to make sure that during the brexit negotiations, we dont return to or receive any kind of hard border between the north and the republic. Well but you see we look at your record and we cant find evidence of you urging the ira to put away its guns and its bombs and then we see your Shadow Chancellor, john mcdonnell, he said he honoured those involved in the ira arms struggle. That was his words. He backed the bombs and the bullets, his words. Your shadow home secretary, diane abbott, said an ira victory against the British State would be a victory for all of us. Youve surrounded yourself with like minded ira supporters. John mcdonnell apologised for those remarks on question time. Only because they became public. John mcdonnell apologised for those remarks on question time. Only because they became public. Well, he apologised for those remarks. The position. He made them in 2003. Andrew, the position has to be that we want peace around the world. But in 2003, the Peace Process was well underway and your Shadow Chancellor said he honoured the ira arms struggle. He withdrew those remarks. Hes apologised for those remarks. Ive made it very, very clear, that i think what has happened in Northern Ireland. Listen, a lot of people lost their lives in Northern Ireland, it was an appalling situation. Ira killed 1800 people. Yes. And the People Killed by loyalist bombs as well. All deaths are appalling, all deaths are wrong, there isnt a Military Solution to a conflict and traditions between communities. There has to be a better way and a Better Process of doing it. But most people watching it tonight, they wont know that you were so close to the hardline republicans and to the apologists to the ira, dont you think they wontjust be surprised, theyll be quite appalled by it . Andrew, people watching tonight, they will want to know that theyve got a government thats serious about their security and their safety and also serious about ensuring we look to how we deal with be issues in the future. We mentioned libya a few moments ago. I think we have to look at these issues as the immediate security, the collective security and the longer term Foreign Policy issues. If i look at all the ira atrocities from the harrods bomb, through to eniskillen, lisbon, omagh, not once is there a record of you condemning that. And every time you voted, 56 times against giving the Security Forces more powers, why would people trust you with our security . Andrew, on the antiterrorist legislation, that came before parliament, i voted to ensure there was legal oversight of our police and our security services. That there wasnt executive power given. But you voted 56 times against toughening up our Security Capabilities . Can i finish for a moment . Of course. David davis and a number of others voted with me on those occasions because they too were concerned about executive powers and Executive Orders overriding a Court Process and i think the best defence against terrorism, the best defence against any attack on democracy is to protect the independence of a judicial process away from the political process and the Prevention Of Terrorism Act was eventually repealed. Were not just talking about that. I realise that. Was eventually repealed, partly because of the executive powers that were implicit in it. Let me turn to nato. Its the Military Alliance that all previous labour and tory governments think has kept this nation and the west safe for more than seven decades. It was created by a labour government. But youve called nato, a very dangerous frankenstein of an organisation, a danger to world peace. Two years ago you said it should be wound up. Do you still believe that . What ive always believed is that nato was a product in 1948 of the awful trajectory of the cold war. We had the warsaw pact, which was formed a little bit later on one side and nato on the other. 1990, the berlin wall came down. The end of the soviet union. Should it be wound up . I thought at this point, when we were into a process of rapprochement across europe, gorbachev and a common european home, maybe that was the time for the organisation of security and corporation in europe to take over, sadly, that didnt happen. I think the role of nato now has to be to build good relations with the neighbours and insist on democracy and human rights being part of that agenda of good relations. But it was only three years ago that you called it a very dangerous frankenstein and a danger to world peace. Do you still believe that or not . I want to work within nato to achieve stability. I want to work within nato to promote human rights and democracy, and under a labour government, thats exactly what wed be doing. But do you think its a frankenstein . I think all organisations need to be accountable. So have you changed your views on nato . No. So you still think. Can i finish my sentence, please . You could if you answered my question. Andrew, nato exists. It was a product initially of the Atlantic Charter 119112. We know the history, mr corbyn, but im trying to work out if you would be a committed supporter of nato, as every previous Prime Minister of this country has been. I would be a committed member of that alliance in order to promote peace, justice, human rights and democracy. And i believe that we can make a positive contribution on that. Lets turn to Nuclear Weapons. Youre a lifelong campaigner for unilateral nuclear disarmament. So under your leadership, labours support for the renewal of the trident deterrent is not credible, is it . Thats what the Labour Conference and parliament have decided to do. I will also ensure that we play a full part in the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty to bring about Multilateral Nuclear disarmament around the world. But we will also have a Security Review to look at the other issues that we face such as the cyber threat which was obviously very serious to our National Health service only a week ago, as well as, of course, the issues that have come to the front because of the tragedy of manchester last week. Lets clarify trident. Do you support the renewal. Its there in the programme. Thats not what i asked you, mr corbyn. Do you support the Renewal Of Trident . Everybody knows i voted against the renewal of it, because i wanted to go in a different direction. That is the decision thats been taken. I respect that decision. But can you tell the british people tonight that you support the Renewal Of Trident . Were going ahead with the programme which has been agreed by parliament and voted on by the labour party. Do you support it . Listen, my views on Nuclear Weapons are well known. I want to achieve a Nuclear Free World to multilateral disarmament and the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty. So you dont support it . I support a Nuclear Free World. I want to bring about peace and i also want us to focus on what i believe to be serious threats like Cyber Security and terrorism. I understand that, but we need a simple answer to a simple question. Youve had the answer. You cannot say to the british people tonight that i, jeremy corbyn, will support the Renewal Of Trident. Its there in the programme. But you cant bring yourself to say that. We are going to pursue that and at the same time negotiate multilateral disarmament and a Nuclear Free World. Listen, do we really want to live in a world where theres a danger of a Nuclear Holocaust . No, we dont. So why dont you say youre against it . Ive made the point of the position that we are adopting as a party and we will take into government. Will the Defence Review that you want to call if you become Prime Minister, will that include trident . It will include a look at the role of Nuclear Weapons. So you could ditch it right away. It will look at the totality, as every other government assuming office has had a Strategic Defence review. There are many senior people in our armed forces who also want us to focus as well on the issues ive mentioned of Cyber Security and terrorism. I understand that, but letsjust clarify this tonight. You cannot tell the british people that you are in favour of the Renewal Of Trident, but you do want a Defence Review and that will include trident, and you could get rid of it. It would include the role of Nuclear Weapons and other issues. So you could get rid of it . Listen, its there in the programme, whats going ahead. Lets turn to domestic policy. Unemployment is now at a ao year low. Were one of the Fastest Growing major advanced economies. Companies flock to invest in the united kingdom, but youre now promising a massive spending binge. Its to be funded by more borrowing and huge tax rises on the very businesses and people that have helped to create over 2 million extra jobs. Dont you risk our economic recovery . 95 of the population will pay no more tax under labour, no more National Insurance and no higher vat. What we have is a country where 6 Million People earn less than the living wage. We have a country where there are unprecedented Waiting Times and Waiting Lists in our hospitals, a Million People denied social care and an increasing number of people sleeping on our streets. This has to be the time that we stop making the poorest in our society pay the price of austerity and start investing for the future. Were proposing an Investment Bank which would invest in all parts of this country, particularly those areas that have seen precious little investment since the end of the Coal Industry and in some places since the end of the steel industry. You say 95 of the country wont pay extra income tax, but the institute for fiscal studies, which is a pretty independent arbitrator of these things at elections, says there is no way that tens of billions of pounds of tax rises would affect only a small group at the very top. No way. They say your plans would not work. No, they havent said they will not work. They did. They have looked at our programme. They have been through the funding of it, and im pleased they have. Theyve done the same with the conservatives. What theyre saying is that you would have to collect your new taxes as well as the increase in Corporation Tax, obviously. You would have to be assiduous in chasing down tax evasion, obviously. Theyve also said that our investment would bring about a Better Society and a more harmonious society. They said that youre going for the highest ever peacetime level of taxation, the highest ever. Well, theyre not correct on that, actually, because the level of Corporation Tax were proposing to go to would be 26 , which is actually less than it was in 2010. But theyre talking about the overall level of taxation, which would be the highest ever in peacetime, under a corbyn government. I dispute that figure, but ok, well have that debate with the ifs. But this election is about a choice. The choice is this. Do we continue underfunding health, expecting headteachers to collect from parents to pay the teachers . Do we continue with the horrors of unfunded social care and a waiting list for social care . Do we continue with a Housing Crisis that affects the homeless right through to the more middle classes whose children cant find somewhere to live . Or do we invest for the future . Our offer is, we will invest for the future. Invest in the future of our children. And part of the investing in the future, you plan to borrow a lot to do that. How much will you borrow . What we will do is for the Public Ownership elements, that will be in exchange for bonds for shares in it. Whats a bond . Its a debt instrument. Its borrowing. The bond is a Government Bond which would be serviced by the income from that service. But in addition, we would have control of it. But you would still have to borrow. Take the water industry, for example, which has been a method of siphoning off profits out of this country to offshore companies whove made a lot of money, at the same time leaving us with expensive water and in some cases very bad levels of pollution. But you would need to borrow to buy the utilities. No, its a swap of the shares for a Government Bond. But if youre issuing bonds, youre issuing government debt. You are borrowing. Issuing bonds that we own, which would be paid for by the profits. But you said you would cut the Water Utilities profits. That means you wouldnt have the money to pay for the bond. Instead of profits being siphoned off, they would remain here. Thats an advantage, surely . National debts already an incredible 1. 7 trillion. If you borrow to invest on top of the 50 we do, you say you need to borrow another 25 to nationalise. You may have to borrow, if the ifs is right, for day to day spending. No, we will not borrow for day to day spending. But you might have to if the ifs is right. Our national debt, which has already soared under the current government, would soar even more under labour, wouldnt it . No, because we have the rule that we would only borrow to invest for the future. We would not borrow for revenue expenditure. Thats a sensible rule. And what wed get in return is investment in better services. That in turn would encourage economic growth. Listen, we have a huge imbalance of investment. Far too much goes to london and the south east in transport infrastructure. Far too little goesto the north east, north west and yorkshire. Those issues have to be addressed, hence the national Investment Bank which will be regionally based across the uk. For people watching tonight who are looking for the government to reduce immigration numbers, labours not the party and youre not the leader to deliver that, are you . We are in favour of managed immigration when the Free Movement ends when we leave the european union. We are against people being brought in as wholesale workforces to undermine existing working conditions and workers. There will be managed migration in the future, based on the Economic Needs of our society. We have had theresa may promising in three elections to make cuts to immigration. Im making no promises on that. What im saying is that the Immigration Issue would be dealt with on the basis of necessary Family Reunions and also the Economic Needs of the country. Would you try to cut the numbers . Well, if the economy is doing well and we train people properly, then the need to bring in skilled workers from overseas will obviously reduce. Mr corbyn, many voters in this election, it will be the first time theyve had a chance to look at you as a potential Prime Minister. Youve been a backbencher for most of your life, never a government minister. Thats an honourable position. Indeed it is. So how should people judge you . Should they listen to those who know you best, your mps . Your own backbenchers, john woodcock, a labour mp, says i will not countenance ever voting to makejeremy corbyn britains Prime Minister. Neil coyle, a labour mp, says the reason why lifelong Labour Voters arent backing us isjeremy corbyn. Alan johnson, former labour home secretary, says youre useless, incompetent and inca pable. Thats the people that know you. Listen, this manifesto has been agreed by everyone in our party. This manifesto has enormous levels of public support. This manifesto has been campaigned for day in, day out on the streets. And do you know what . People like the contents of it, because it offers them hope. It offers them opportunity. It offers our young people an opportunity to get the education they want, to get the skilled jobs they want and it offers hope in the sense of community cohesion. And i invite everyone to have a look at the policies. And they will and the policies are there, but the people and the leader matters as well. What im trying to say is, should the people who dont know you listen to those who do and follow these judgments . I would hope that people would judge me and our party on the basis of the principles were putting forward in this election an investment for our future, a Better Future for younger people in our society, proper treatment of those who need help and care and support through a social care system, and an Education System that doesnt undermine our children with a lack of funding. I have one final question. Listen, ive spent my life in politics trying to get Social Justice for everybody. I relish the opportunity of doing the same in government. Of course you do, but why should the voters trust you when so many even of your own mps dont trust you . Well, you could have quite easily got quotes from a number of people 180 had no confidence in you. You chose not to do that, and that, andrew, is your choice. And it will be the choice of the people onjune 8th. Jeremy corbyn, thank you. This is bbc news, im ben bland. Our top stories tracking down the Terror Network surrounding the manchester bomber. Uk police say they have made immense progress. Theyre very significant, these arrests. Were very happy weve got our hands around some of the key players that were concerned about. Like i say, theres still a little bit more to do. More details emerge about salman abedi. A formerfriend told the bbc his behaviour had changed in the last six months. Funerals in egypt for the Coptic Christians killed in an attack on friday. The country retaliates with airstrikes on libya. And a glimpse into the past. The bbc is given exclusive access to historic footage that has not been seen in 80 years