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Transcripts For BBCNEWS If You Love Your Baby... The... 20240707

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marriages like this one were the cornerstone of respectability. to have a baby outside of wedlock would be breaking one of the most potent taboos. till death us do part... but what if you did become pregnant before you married? i was really, really scared, and ijust blotted i was working at the holiday camp in bognor, i was going out with one of the redcoats, we became intermittent i got pregnant. became intermittent i got pregnant-— became intermittent i got reunant. ., .. ,, .,, pregnant. veronica smith was unmarried- — my mother didn't tell my father because she said it would kill him. so he never knew? no. ever? never. it was regarded as so shameful that veronica was secretly sent to a mother and baby home in another part of london. she and her mother had to create a story to explain her disappearance to her father. i used to meet my mother at wimbledon station, and she would come with paper and an envelope, and we'd concoct this letter that i was working away from home in spain, and that i was having a good time, that i would be home soon. and take it back to my father, obviously took it out of the envelope. bless him, hejust thought it was true. thought you were away? yeah. this was in 1967, i was 16. i was really, really scared and ijust blotted the whole thing out, because apparently that's what teenagers do. diana defries was 16 when she became pregnant. for many young women like her, the shock of telling her family was soon followed by their first encounter with the state in the form of a gp or a social worker. she spent a lot of time telling me things along the lines of "you'll do the best thing, this is your only option, "you'll give your child to a proper mummy and daddy "because you can't possibly be a parent to your child. "you can't. . .you're not... "you're not fit to be a mother." some may have embraced the sexual liberations of the era, but society and some of those who worked for it did not. i was 18. i don't think i wanted to believe that i was pregnant for a long time. judy baker was also single and she too came before a persuasive social worker. she almost immediately suggested adoption to me. certainly, there wouldn't have been any idea in my head, i don't think, before that. and she presented it to me, as far as i can remember, as this wonderful opportunity almost to give my baby a loving home that i couldn't give her. so that was the start of me being indoctrinated, if you like. there's a good girl. there! yvonne labrum also felt the pressure when she became pregnant out of wedlock aged 20. "you're not married so, "therefore, you're not keeping the baby," which really hurt me. you wanted to have the baby? i wanted...to have my child. the pressure on unmarried women to give up their babies took hold in the 1950s. it coincided with increased demand for adopted children from childless couples in postwar britain. we were asked to prepare a layette for the baby. but thousands of these women, like ann keen, wanted to keep their babies, yet they often felt ground down by social workers into submission. it was coercion. the phrase was, "this will be for the best — "this will be the best for the baby, "this will be the best for you, "because if you really love this baby, "you will make sure that it has a different life "and not with you," and that the best thing to do is to give him up. tonight's debate is about the abolition of discrimination. but ann, who later became an mp, says it wasn'tjust social workers. she says nhs staff were also involved. she recalls a midwife who denied her pain relief as she was giving birth. when i asked for help, i wasn't given any help for pain. in fact, i was told — i'll remember — "you will remember this so as you won't be wicked again, you bad girl, you won't be wicked again. and so...that was really, really difficult. 16—year—old diana defries faced a similar experience in an nhs hospital. as somebody said, "it's a girl," she said, "this baby's flagged for adoption. "i'm...|'ll take her away." and i can remember yelling and saying, "please bring her back, bring her back." everybody left and i was lying there on my own, on this thing, covered with a sheet...um... and a crying baby that i couldn't reach. and they left me there for four hours. and i canjust remember lying there, thinking, it'd be better to die. ididn�*t die. i think this was written... yvonne labrum says nurses took her baby away as soon as she gave birth. i never even got the chance to hold her straightaway. i felt...cross that i'd just been left like a piece of meat laying on a slab. it was 1978 when i found out i was pregnant. jeannot farmer will never forget the day she gave birth. she found herself begging the doctor for pain relief. "can you stop, please? i'm not anaesthetised. "you're stitching and can feel everything you're doing." he didn't say a word to me — he didn't say a word, and he just moved on to the next stitch. and i thought this is — this is terrible, this is what — this must be what it feels like to be tortured. nurses didn't even let her see her baby. so i didn't see him at all, not — not even a little bit. and when was the first time you got to hold your own baby? the first time i got to hold my own baby was 31 years later when he was 61". so i never held my baby, i never saw him. but in these postwar decades, who were these nhs staff behaving like that? some of the older midwives would say — i hate the word — but "some of these are fallen women, "they've got to get on with their lives." anne hair worked with some of them. she was a trainee nurse at this former hospital in edinburgh and witnessed how some of her more established colleagues treated the young, unmarried women. sometimes you felt cruel in...in how they spoke about them. how did these young mothers react? i think they were in shock. 50 years ago, this building was another mother and baby unit anne worked in. she said some nurses treated the taking away of babies in an almost routine way. i think they were just generally institutionalised, that's what they did. and maybe they thought by trying to cut everything short, cut and dried — right, you're in, you're away, you'll have your baby, your baby will go for adoption, that's it. it sounds callous. yeah, absolutely. but the hospital trauma faced by the new young mothers wasn't over. next came the moment of handover. ann keen was taunted by a midwife when she found out she couldn't even say goodbye to her baby son. i went to collect him from the nursery and he wasn't there. she said, "oh, he's gone. 0h, he's gone. "i tell you where he is — he's in that room over there, "in that building over there. "his new mummy will come for him "and she'll be very happy and they'll both be very happy, "and that's the last you're seeing of him, "and you can come with me now into the bathroom "because i need to put you in the bath "and let's get rid of this milk." and then the letter came. others, like judy baker, were summoned to adoption centres, travelling alone or with a parent to pass on the baby they desperately wanted to keep, but now felt coerced into handing over. take us to the day of the handover, when you passed your baby on, your baby daughter on to the authorities — how difficult a day was that? she was asleep. she never woke up. and they took her from me and gave her to the people who were waiting in the next room to adopt her... and that was it. how could that have happened to me? but my mum was waiting for me downstairs and we went shopping. we went shopping. i loved her so much. i still love her. i'm her mum! diana defries is also haunted by the last time she saw her baby. i was holding her right up until the point where a woman came out, a woman in a white coat came out, said, "it's time." and the woman spun around and said, "say bye—bye." and, interestingly, as i started to buckle, my daughter started to howl. and she cried all the way out of the room. i remember that noise. elspeth ross shared a similar experience. she gave birth aged 16 in glasgow and was told by the matron of her church—run home to leave her baby and go. did you give up your baby? no, it was taken. it was actually taken from my arms without telling me what was happening. elspeth showed us that former home where her baby was taken for adoption 60 years ago. this is the first time she's been back inside. feels strange, walking in here after all these years. it's now private flats, but she goes straight to the room where she last saw her baby. this is the last place i saw my son. it's a moment she yearns for the past. just brought me back... when you see this room, what does it mean to you? oh, it's horrible. it's just horrible. this was the last place you saw your baby. i know. elspeth wouldn't see her son again for 35 years. for many like yvonne labrum, giving up her baby affected everyone involved — herself, andy, the birth father, and liz, their child. their early and later lives all bruised by shame and separation. andy says he wasn't even permitted to see liz, his newborn baby. i'd been told without a doubt that i wasn't going to be allowed into the hospital to see yvonne or the baby. so there was a huge chunk of her life where she didn't...have any relationship with — with her birth parents, and it was difficult, yeah. for yvonne, losing her baby, liz, was devastating. i lost the only thing in my life that i ever wanted. liz was adopted into a loving family, but always felt confused by what happened to her. what did you come to think of your birth mother? did you come to resent what she did? was there any anger? yes, idid, because i had no idea why. why would you give up a baby? i never understood that as a child. i just couldn't understand. liz was just one of the children caught up in forced adoptions. and whilst many grew up surrounded by love and attention, others did not. i had an identity forced upon me. left me with a sense of not belonging. not really knowing who i was. i feel like i just wasn't the person i was meant to be. i was somebody else. jan shine was born in 1960 to an unmarried 18—year—old mother. her adoption didn't go well. i had no love whatsoever. i'm angry. i'm angry for the system allowing me to be given to those people. i'm angry for...for the trauma and pain caused to my birth mother. i'm angry that all of this has impacted on my life, my relationships. it's lifelong, um, it continues throughout your life, and that's whether you have a really good adoptive family or not. the humiliation inflicted on the children and their birth mothers can even be found in official documents from the time. one person wrote on the adoption paper, "the baby is beautiful, unlike its mother." some mothers now question whether they ever signed a consent form. those doubts were reflected in this document from an adoption hearing when thejudge said he was doubtful about the validity of the justice of the peace's signature on the consent form. historical forced adoptions broadly took place over a 30—year period. the bbc�*s reports into these experiences have been the subject of two national enquiries, one by the scottish government and one by the uk parliament. some of the birth mothers were among those who gave evidence to the uk parliament's human rights committee. good afternoon, and welcome to this session of thejoint committee... one government minister told the enquiry he was personally sorry for forced adoption. i recognise the hurt and the pain that occurred, and i am deeply sorry that many went through this ordeal. i acknowledge the profound...the profound and lasting impact that this had on them. but he stopped short of committing the government to an official apology, something many of the mps questioned. hugely appreciated by these women and by their children and, indeed, by some of the fathers of these babies. and i hear what you say... applause it was another raw moment for the birth mothers watching. the committee's published report concluded there should now be a full government apology to the women. it says: and it adds: i think the least the government can do is recognise that this shouldn't have happened then and it would never happen now and it's right for the government to apologise. we were with some of the birth mothers and adoptees when the committee's report came through. "an official apology should be given in recognition of lasting suffering caused by adoption practices..." brilliant, absolutely brilliant. really brilliant. decades after their ordeal, this is a special moment. really brilliant. forjudy baker who never went on to have another child, an apology would recognise deep, enduring pain. how can you do that to a teenager and to an innocent baby? how can you part them simply because i was unmarried?! the report estimates nearly 200,000 babies were adopted from unmarried mothers in the three decades after world war ii. other countries like australia have already apologised to birth mothers. now, those here say it's time the uk and scottish governments did the same — to reach out with compassion and finally officially recognise that forced adoptions were wrong. a historical injustice is what happened to us. other countries have recognised it, and it's high time ours did. it's about me and many mothers like me feeling i did not give him up, i did not abandon him. so, therefore, the apology is to clear almost my name and my son's name, that he was not given away. did you give up your baby, give away your baby? no, she was quite literally taken from me. i didn't feel entitled to fight because i felt that i was worthless. everything i went through...left me with a sense of complete and utter worthlessness. i felt as if i didn't deserve anything. i had no right to ask for anything i wanted. what do you say to their campaign to get an apology from the scottish government and the uk government? i think they're right, these women were not treated with the dignity and respect that you would expect of a professional. it's been horrible and ghastly for them. one little daughter made a comment...to say that...they'd been...been denied a relationship...for so much of their lives. sorry. ..sorry would be l a great...a great thing. losing your child is an immense failure, whether or not - i you actively participated in iti or not, and that leaves a scar. it's a very scarring thing. what have you missed out on? well, being a mum. and it's difficult. i've got stepchildren now, but i don't know...don�*t know how to mother. i don't know how to because i haven't done it. it's notjust me, it's thousands — thousands of women. and it was so wrong. hello. thanks forjoining me. time to look at the weather for the week ahead. it is looking fairly typicalfor the week ahead. it is looking fairly typical for the time of year across our shores. satellite picture shows weather systems coming off the atlantic. we have had a bit of rain recently in scotland and northern ireland thanks to this weather front which is way out of the picture, i think, on sunday. monday starts off pretty bright for most of us. —— sunday. cloud will be increasing in the uk, the next weather front is approaching, perhaps some spots of rain for wales and north—west england date any day on sunday. mostly dry day, sunny across scotland, quite warm, low to mid 20s across examples of the country. here is the forecast for night into monday, notice the weather systems moving into the atlantic, as well as cloud and rain they are bringing some warm air overnight, look at the temperatures first thing monday, around 60 degrees. here is that weather system on monday, shrouding the uk with thick cloud and outbreaks of rain, at least early in the day. so this is the morning. note as it is not raining everywhere, the north—east of scotland is quite sunny for thing. come the afternoon we do think the weather system will be out of the way and should allow for some sunny spells to develop almost anywhere across the country on monday. let's have a look at tuesday. the weather system is out of the way, it is in the north sea, and the next one is coming soon. it's quite typical for our climate, one weather system after the other, quite changeable conditions through the course of the week. so i think a fair the course of the week. so i thinka fairamount the course of the week. so i think a fair amount of cloud at times on tuesday, showers here and there, the driest of the weather, warmest of the weather will be across eastern and south—eastern areas, feeling quite hot, temperatures up to 27 degrees there in norwich. let's have a look at wednesday. here is that weather front moving on from the south—west bringing outbreaks of rain two putts of england and wales, but it is certainly not raining everywhere. in fact, cross sanglah unli the south—east it could end up being quite and warm, 26 or 27 degrees, a lot present in scotland with these atlantic winds, typically in the teens. so one weather front moves away, you guessed it, the next one is heading our way out of the atlantic. this is what we cool unsettled weather, changeable weather we have one weather system after the other after the other. not necessarily bringing an awful amount of rainfall, but at least some, we still of course need the rental given it has been so dry. here is brighter, really uncertain where this area of rain will be, but i think we changeable weather will be in place for pretty much the whole of the week. let's summarise the week. you can see cardiff, rain on monday, sunshine on tuesday, rain again on wednesday. quite changeable, really, wherever you are. and quite warm across the south—east. and in london up the south—east. and in london up to 27 degrees. let's look at the all—important bank holiday weekend as we head towards the end of august. what we're looking at is an area of high pressure building across the uk. if you look at the prezza lines that is where the air is coming from. it is coming from the north, blocking hot air coming from the south, the hot air is expected to develop across europe. at this stage it doesn't look like it will come our way. yes, doesn't look like it will come ourway. yes, high—pressure our way. yes, high—pressure bills ourway. yes, high—pressure bills the bank holiday weekend. it will be dry and more settled, but at this stage we are not expecting it to be especially warm. that is it for me. bye—bye. this is bbc news. welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. our top stories: security forces in somalia say they've succesfully ended a 30—hour siege by islamist militants at an hotel in the capital mogadishu. russia's air defence systems operate over crimea, which comes under ukrainian drone attack for another night. ukraine's heavyweight boxer oleksandr usyk retains his four unified world titles against britain's anthonyjoshua then dedicates his win to the ukrainian armed forces. and the secrets hidden in china's rivers finally exposed after a long drought.

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