Young children were among migrants rescued on friday in the english channel. They made the journey on eight small boats. This is the largest number of votes. Many of the migrant were brought back to dover. Alongside one of the flimsy dinghies, used across one of the world s busiest shipping lane. Lodged from french beaches in the dark. They scattered once setting. It takes time to rescue people. It isa it takes time to rescue people. It is a complicated issue once you have so is a complicated issue once you have so many boats scattered over such a large area. An abandoned dinky, one of two boat that made it all the way gcioss. Of two boat that made it all the way across. Filled by a passerby, these migrants detained by police after reaching uk shores. The migrant arrivals started early in the morning. It is understood a number of women and Young Children were amongst those making the journey here. I would really like us to look at having an agreement with the french when whenever anyone was picked up, they would be taken safely and securely back to france that way people would note this is not a route to britain. A fleet of vessels out to sea, however small boats succeed coming across. Criminal gangs involve appear to be co ordinating multiple launches and what is described as a surge tactic to beat security. It is a flow of desperate people of the authorities are struggling to quell. Now on bbc news, its time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen sackur. Britain is formally out of the European Union but for how much longer will it be a United Kingdom . The Scottish National party says brexit reinforces the need for scotland to forge an independent future inside the eu. But in the face of implacable opposition from Prime Minister Boris Johnson, how do they get there . My guest is the snp leader in the uk parliament, ian blackford. For all of their passion are the Scottish Nationalists lacking a viable strategy . Ian blackford, welcome to hardtalk. It is a pleasure to be here, stephen. Would it be fair to say that you and the snp see brexit as the moment of maximum opportunity for the Independence Movement . We certainly think that scotland should be independent in any event but brexit crystallises it. Hearing what you were saying there about leaving the European Union, it pains me evenjust to listen to you say that. We do not accept that we should be out of the European Union. All my adult life has been as a citizen of europe. Ive worked in europe, my sons worked in europe, my grandchildren are going to lose these automatic rights and, quite frankly, it is going to damage us economically, socially and culturally. In scotland, in many respects, we are lucky because there is a roadmap for us and that is through becoming independent and becoming a member of the European Union in its own right. The battle lines are drawn, arent they, between you and the borisjohnson government but it is plain that in terms of the commanding heights, the high ground in this looming battle, he has got those heights and you do not. Let us wait and see. When you look at the recent history and the referendum we had in 2014, we lost it and we accept that. Not only did you lose it you accepted and Nicola Sturgeon, the leader of the Snp Alex Salmond clearly and explicitly accepted that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity for scotland to give its voice on that choice. So once in a lifetime means once in a lifetime. Lets analyse that. What happened in that campaign, we were told if we stayed in the uk we would stay in the European Union and our rights as eu citizens would be respected. Thats the first thing. But from that referendum what happened was that the Smith Commission was established, to look what would happen for further powers for the Scottish Parliament, under lord smith. That was an all Party Commission which all parties, including the conservatives, signed up to and in that Smith Commission report it was accepted it was up to the people of scotland to determine their constitutional future. So there was no situation where it was accepted that we could not return to having a referendum on Scottish Independence in the future. That is a complicated argument about process but the simple thing that both scots and the rest of the uk citizens understand is that you had a chance to vote for independence and by a clear majority, the scottish people voted against it. You want to run the whole thing again but that simply is not what you agreed to in the first place. There are two agreements that are important. The first one is the edinburgh agreement that established that the Scottish Parliament had the power to call that referendum. That was a legal agreement between the government and edinburgh. The power granted by westminster, the uk parliament. But there was nothing in that agreement that precluded having a referendum in the future and nothing that took place in the Smith Commission that precluded having another referendum. There may be nothing written down but it is quite clear that borisjohnson, who has a mandate and a majority of 80 in the Westminster Parliament, he said in his formal response to Nicola Sturgeons saying we must have a second referendum, its the only democratic thing to do, borisjohnson said that a referendum, another one, would quote, continue the political stagnation that scotland has seen for the last decade. It simply will not happen. But the uk we voted to remain a part in 2014 no longer exists. The game has changed because we left the European Union. We left the European Union as a United Kingdom, as the scottish people had voted to be a part of that United Kingdom. Having been told that the United Kingdom was a family of nations and we were to leave the uk, scotland explicitly voted to remain. 62 voted to remain. Actually, there was a very crucial poll last week that showed that 73 of scots wanted to stay in europe. So we were being taken out against their wishes. I have seen the polls and the latest showed 52 of scots approve of the idea of independence. So in some respects you ride high in the polls, but the problem is that you appear to be sending a message to the scottish people that somehow a second independence referendum is within reach when frankly it is not. And some of your former colleagues, people like jim sillars, a former deputy leader of the snp, have accused Nicola Sturgeon of wilfully and willingly misleading snp supporters by suggesting there is a pathway to a second referendum when there is not. I respectfully say to jim, and he is dear and old friend of mine i used to work very closely with jim that we fought the election to the Scottish Parliament in 2016 on securing a mandate for an independence referendum and we won that election. There has been a Material Change of circumstances and not only did we secure the 2016 mandate, we have won every election since then, stephen. And we fought the election of 2019 on the basis of scotlands right to choose, to reinforce that mandate that the Scottish Government has. We won 45 of the vote in scotland. Im not sure you are addressing my key strategic question. What are you going to do as Boris Johnson emphatically rejects the notion that he and the Westminster Parliament will give you the right to a second referendum. Some in your party are already talking about taking this to law. Joanna cherry, a leading snp, an mp, a colleague of yours is saying that we need a multifaceted strategy. She seems to be contemplating legal action to try and get the government to back down on its opposition. What i would say to colleagues is to have a degree of patience. We have just had an absolutely outstanding election result and if you go back and look at the European Elections, we got 38 of the vote in the European Elections a few months ago. The highest share of the vote we have ever had in a European Election and actually the highest share of the vote that any party in western europe got in the European Election. We are winning elections and borisjohnson is not going to be able to hold this line. He said no to the government of scotland a few weeks ago and look at what happened since then. The Edinburgh Parliament has voted by a majority of ten to reinforce that desire for an independence referendum. Has that made a blind bit of difference to Boris Johnsons position . A straight answer please. No is the answer. The scots are a strong bunch and what you have seen in the polls you referred to, three polls over the course of the last few days, majority support for independence in each one and support for the snp in the forthcoming Scottish Election is sitting at 50 . Boris johnson cannot be a democracy denier, he cannot hold the line that westminster can say no to scotland. What i say to colleagues is that we need to stick with the strategy that is working which is uniting the people of scotland behind us and when you look at the polling you referred to, a substantial number of people who voted for other parties. Hang on. I need to ask a few questions here. Firstly, your message tojoanna cherry is no, we will not take immediate legal action. And people like Kenny Macaskill who talks about Constitutional Convention that arent just about the snp figuring out what its going to do. He wants to draw in other parties and talk to the trade unions and have a national conversation. You do not appear to want to do that. That will happen. The first minister announced that last friday. We need to learn some lessons about the movement to secure scottish devolution that we did 20 odd years ago and we need to create that momentum, engagement with civic scotland so there will be a Constitutional Convention where all scottish msps, departing meps and mps. And it wontjust be an snp talking shop . This will be on a cross party basis. What about another lesson you may learn, that from catalonia when they could not get authorisation from madrid for a referendum and they called their own and handled it themselves and we know what happened. Would scotland consider doing that . What i say to you is that we are proving to be enormously popular with the public in scotland. That is not an answer to my question. It is, stephen. The strategy will win in the end. Borisjohnson is a man with this hand over the bunsen burner and saying it does not hurt. We need to turn up pressure. He cannot turn around and tell the people of scotland that you cannot have the right to determine your own future. You wont turn up the pressure if the people of scotland fall out of love with the snp . I can tell you that when i speak to voters, as i have over the course the last few months, people were talking about the impact brexit would have on their life and the fact that the Scottish Government is getting on with the job and delivering for the people. Do they say that despite the evidence that the scottish nhs is in crisis and the Scottish Education system doesnt work properly for the people of scotland. Do they come up to you and say thank goodness you are running our country well . If the snp were not getting on with our dayjob we would not have had the election. It is a question of how well you are doing it. The fact that i knocked on so many doors during the election period. I knocked on the door after door of people asking if they experience the benefits of the nhs and they will tell you in the main that when they require the services of the National Health service, they have been delighted it was there for them. If you look at public satisfaction. The nhs in scotland faces a 1. 8 billion pound shortfall in the coming five years without significant reform. That is from audit scotland. The chair of the bma in scotland, lewis morrison, says that overall the nhs in scotland is in a parlous state. His words parlous state and you have been running that service for goodness knows how many years. Weve been responsible for government in scotland for 12 years. But the fact remains we put more resources into the nhs. But it is not working. Like these new hospitals. The new hospital in edinburgh which is massively delayed and over budget and there are still fundamental problems that mean it cannot open. Health services around the world face challenges but when you look at the performance of our nhs, lets look at our a e performances. We have the best performing accident and Emergency Department in the United Kingdom by some distance. As you say, scottish people on the door step are praising you for the way you run the country, orfor the parts, the aspects that the government is responsible for. For example, if you look at scotlands placing in the index of 0ecd social and economic well being, scotland is one of only three countries, three countries in europe where your position in the index has gone down. One of the challenges we have faced over the last few years has been austerity and that is controlled by westminster. When you talk about nhs budgeting, we have increased resources and we want to do more. Weve called for Additional Resources throughout the uk. But in real terms our budget has been cut by 5 and of course there are consequences of that squeeze that has been on our public finances by westminster. That answer represents a huge problem for your political offer to the scottish people. According to the institute for fiscal studies if you are serious about running a strong and stable economy postindependence, the snp would have to take, quote unquote, austerity further because of the nature of the scottish economy. If you take the growth Commission Report that was published 18 months or so ago, it shows that we can reach a sustainable position by growing the economy, by investing in public services. If you look at the harsh reality at the moment we have had a uk government that has mismanaged the government post the financial crisis. I dont know what youre reading but i imagine like most politicians in the United Kingdom you take seriously and respect the institute for fiscal studies. They have run the numbers on what a postindependence scottish economy would look like and because of, frankly, historically the reliance of scotland on tax revenues being transferred from england, they conclude, let me finish, they conclude that postindependence and this is a direct quote, given the ageing population in scotland and the rising cost of healthcare, social care and pensions, unless these demands were not met then it means elsewhere in the scottish budget, independent budget, there will have to be many and serious cuts in public spending. The snp. That is what they have concluded. One of the premises there is that scotland has been subsidised by the uk for how many years. That is not true. Over the last a0 years and these are treasury figures, scotland has more than contributed its fair share of taxation receipts and we have subsidised the rest of the uk for that period. The reason we want independence for scotland is because we want to grow the economy and when you talk about the ageing population, that is one of the challenges that we face, we agree on that. That is why we need to control migration in scotland because we need the lifeblood of people coming to live and work in scotland in order to grow the economy. You used to be a banker, you worked for Deutsche Bank, and you knew in 2015 in the run up to the referendum, Deutsche Bank issued a report and analysis where the chief economist said, while it may sound simple and costless to exit a 300 year old union, in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Part of that statement, they said Financial Institutions would leave scotland but what they omitted to tell you was Deutsche Bank left scotland prior to independence referendum. They said they were actively looking at moving many of their office staff from scotland to england as a result of the possibility of a yes vote in 2014. You had a number of statements around that time, one that was often misquoted was that royal bank of scotland were going to move ahead office from scotland, which was then firmly denied. The simple fact of the matter is i can tell you i met many Financial Institutions, many banks, over the course of the last few months and they recognise the challenges we face in scotland and i dont find many of these Financial Institutions are worried about scotlands constitutional future and scotland being independent. Are you sure . The crucial difference is an independent scotland in europe would become a destination. Interesting you say that bring back brexit, which is where we began, surely now brexit has happened in the uk formally, you face serious and practical questions about the future. 0ne, if you get your way, and we discussed if its in anyway possible in the short run, if you get a second referendum and you win it and the scottish people vote to leave, you say you will immediately request to rejoin. Rejoin the European Union, although there would be an accession process. Lets talk turkey. Number one, trade with england still more than two thirds of the scottish economy, theres going to be a hard border with england, isnt there . We dont know as we are sitting here today what the trading relationship will be between the uk and europe, i hope its as close as possible and i would prefer to the uk remain in the Single Market. You know the uk, led by borisjohnson, is quite clear that it will not be in the Single Market and the Customs Union you might as well start factoring that in right now. Let me give you an example of what happened to ireland, go back 50 or 60 years, 90 of the irish trade was with the uk and last year the figure was 11 because the economy in ireland has globalised and they benefited from the opportunities of being independent in europe. There was a fascinating report from Credit Suisse during the referendum in 2014 about the success of small countries, small countries in europe tend to have a growth rate of 0. 7 of gdp per annum higher than larger countries. Those great opportunities for countries that can deliver on social policy with the correct architecture. Scotland dont know what currency it would have as independent, in 2014 you said you would stick to the pound even though people in london and the city didnt think that would be possible, as well as many scots, but now you say you definitely wont have the pound. Is that because you got an idea for your own currency or are you going to join the eurozone . We debated this at the Party Conference months ago and the settled position as we will keep the pound, we will establish our own central bank and there will be a series of economic tests that will have to be met before an economic. Assuming the bank of england were happy for you to keep the pound, you would be entirely reliant on a policy making centre in london for your monetary. It wouldnt be a question of the bank of england agreeing to that because you can do that anyway, we wouldnt do that in a currency union, we would have a central bank that would have powers over the scottish economy. I want to talk about that phrase take back control, how scotland would be if it would, in any way, still use at the pound, which ultimately the decisions about the currency were taken. For the simple reason that what excites me and what would get me up in the morning is delivering a stronger economy for scotland, delivering a fairer scotland, one that takes climate responsibilities properly and of course in order to do that and you achieve the confidence of the financial markets, its the right thing to do that we keep sterling for a transition period and a recommendation in the fullness of time would come from the central bank to the Scottish Parliament about a number of tests being met that would allow us to navigate towards our currency. Thats a practical solution to take. What im trying to do is test and scrutinise what the snp message is to your own scottish people, it seems its very confused. 0n the one hand you say you will keep the pound and recognise the authority of the bank of england, on the other hand you say we will definitelyjoin the eu, which will involve a long term commitment to join the euro, and it will give european fishermen rights to fish in scottish waters, something your own Scottish Fishermen have fought tooth and nail to get rid of. Lets wait and see what happens with the negotiations overfishing for the last few months because Michel Barnier has said that european fishermen will continue to have access to european waters. I remember the previous brexit secratary david davis danger me he wasnt in the business of making spanish and french fishermen redundant, so lets have a reality check with fishing. A final point, people will be interested to see this vision being painted through, you are going to have your own scottish military forces. You say you will spend 1. 6 of gdp on them. That doesnt even meet the nato requirement for 2 of gdp and if one actually works through what it would mean, you wouldnt be able to afford what you have promised, a 15,000 strong army and all sorts of naval vessels, antisubmarine capability, you wouldnt be able to afford it. You are referring to historical figures and we will make an offer for our defence capabilities when we come to the independence period and when were putting that in front of the people of scotland, but we will take responsibilities seriously and we will make sure we have investment both in our navy, our air force and in our army. Isnt it true, ian blackford. Weapons we want removed from scottish soil. We began by discussing whether this was a moment of maximum opportunity for the snp but it may turn out in the next year or two that they are moments of maximum dangerfor the snp. They are enormous opportunities and the questions i am able to answer. When you talk about the euro, as you said a second ago, there are requirements under the treaties to join the euro but there is a but. Beforejoining the euro, you have to be in the Exchange Rate mechanism for a two year period as a transition. Joining that is entirely voluntary. We meet the criteria as laid out for the European Union by an independent country having a central bank. The eu is going to love you, sounds like youre trying to change the rules of the game before you have joined the club. We accept the rules as they are, we will be a member of the eu and play our full part as a member and something we enormously look forward to. Ian blackford, we are out of time unfortunately but thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. Thank you. Hello there. We have got some very windy weather on the way, and over the next few days, the wind will pick up day by day. On friday afternoon, we could see gusts reaching 50 or 60mph around Western Areas of scotland, but the winds become much more widespread on saturday for both scotland and Northern Ireland and the wind will get stronger as well. Gusts reaching 60 or 70mph, potentially disruptive gusts of wind. Worse is to come. On sunday, storm ciara arrives, bringing strong winds across all of the uk but the strongest reaching in excess of 80mph, damaging winds are on the way. For the time being, although there are pictures of frost around at the moment, as the breeze picks up across Western Areas that will increasingly lift the frost. As we head into friday morning, the frost will become confined to central and eastern parts of the uk. A cold start to the day with a fair bit of sunshine around. Northern ireland will see thicker cloud in the afternoon and patches of rain and then we get the wind starting to ramp up in the west of scotland as we head through friday afternoon and on towards the evening time as well. In fact, as we head through friday night, it looks like being a blowy and blustery night as a band of rain pushes its way eastwards, all of us will notice those winds increasing in strength. But because it will be a windy night, it will also be relatively mild with temperatures potentially no lower than 10 degrees or so. That takes us on into the weekends windy weather is forecast. Look how tightly packed the isobars are on saturday, particularly as the weather front approaches off the atlantic. Saturday, many of us will have a dry bright start to the day with wind strengthening through the day, becoming very strong for Northern Ireland and scotland, potentially disruptive. Rain and some hill snow in the forecast for scotland, so we could have some weather impacts around as we start off the weekend. Its on sunday that storm ciara arrives. Here it is, and on and ahead of this cold front, we will get some very squally winds indeed and then we will get another swathe of strong winds, tucking around the southern flank of the area of low pressure. So there are multiple zones of strong winds that are forecast for sunday across the whole of the uk. Quite widely, inland 50 60mph gust but the windiest areas could get gusts in excess of 80mph. These are damaging, disruptive gusts of wind so we are likely to see transport disruption and we could also see some power cuts as well so stay tuned with our latest weather forecasts over the next few days. This is the briefing. Im ben bland. 0ur this is the briefing. Im ben bland. Our top stories. The death toll from the coronavirus raises once more as the doctor who wanted its dangers dies of the disease. 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