patients, although the patient related counts didn't fare too well relatively speaking. they had investors and equity partners, they had board members, they even had people from the lab, very important witnesses, directors of testing and so forth of the suppose devices. and they even had journalists, and a couple of the journalists who testified were very effective. they spoke that ms holmes actually lied to them during the interviews. at various stages, including... nonetheless, and you would know better than anyone, it is not easy to pin the sort of thing on a ceo particularly one that doesn't necessarily have a high tech background. how important do you think was she herself, elizabeth holmes, in terms of her evidence and her role in sarah loss in coming to this