he was seen in public globally was when harry and meghan visited the country. trevor, can you hear me? i couldn't hear the last part. sorry, i was just talking about his approachable side to his nature, was seen very clearly on the visit that harry and meghan made to south africa. very much so. and as you saw and we also, he was receiving them and he kisses the baby, which was rather cute, but that was desmond. it's a joy in his face. it's the love oozing out, as you can see them sitting together there. and it was absolutely amazing. but that was just desmond tutu. the other dimension i should say