And career as the man im about to meet. Hes gone from Working Class dundee in the post war years to londons theatre land in the swinging � 60s and then film and television stardom. Brian cox has featured in over 100 movies and played stage roles to great acclaim. But its his role as succession� s logan roy, the Maniacal Media Boss and terrifying patriarch that is seeing him become a superstar. You have to be a killer. Like the character he plays, cox can be fearsome and forthright on everything from scottish politics. We have been treated so badly time and time and time and time again. To his fellow actors, michael caine. The winner of numerous awards for his performances on stage and screen, hes a master of his craft. Now in his mid 70s, cox is at the height of his powers creatively and the height of his anger politically. Its very, very good to see you. Thank you so much for speaking to me and for speaking to the bbc. I want to talk to you about so much. I think it makes sense to begin at the end and this is where we cut to an enormous spoiler alert. We tell people that logan roy in succession does die. Was it strange leaving the production for a while, this production that had been such a big part of your life, big part of your mind . Yeah, it was odd. It was an odd feeling. Are you know, i looked on it wrongly, wrongly, but i looked to it as a form of rejection. I looked upon, oh, youve done with logan, youve created this monster and you dont know. So youll get rid of him and you got rid of him in a pretty brilliant way. I mean, that was so brilliant the way he did it because there was no set up. We didnt know what was going to happen. He gets on the plane, he seems hale and hearty. Hes just had these huge those first two acts of episode one. Episode two, we see this sort of in full blast and then suddenly, you know, hes gone. And, you know, i was fine with it ultimately. But i did feel a little bit rejected, you know . Ifelt a little bit, 0h, all the work ive done. And finally, im going to end up as an ear on a carpet of a plane. The series was created by british writer and producerjesse armstrong. Hes delivered nearly a0 episodes and one of the most famous characters in recent television history. Did you have any leeway, any sway in saying to jesse armstrong, i think maybe logan shouldnt die . No, ididn� t. Theres no point going down that road, especially with somebody likejesse, because hes already made a plan. And in a way, he probably got slightly hoisted by his own petard on that one because he had to then keep that thing going, you know . And also the scripts i gather after i left got later and later and later, because i think it was a big challenge. But he decided to make logan die. I think ultimately too early. I mean, he made him die in the third episode. And, you know, i think maybe he could have died in about. I would have thought the fifth or sixth episode. I would have thought that would have been appropriate. His characters death made headlines around the world, highlighting just how far cox had come in his acting career. But how he got there is a story in itself, and it begins living in impoverishment in dundee. His father, charles, was a shopkeeper, well known for being generous to a fault, often extending credit to customers, much to the dismay of coxs mother, mary ann. My mum and dad always had this tension between them. My dad was a giver away. My mother was a conserver. I mean, she was conserving, you know, because she had to. She had five kids. I mean, basically, my mothers view was Charity Begins at home. You know, charity is fine, but it begins at home. You have to start at home. My dads view was the opposite. He said, were fine. Its not them. Its the other people that we have to think about. That idea of thinking about others would become a key theme of coxs life. But for him, it was about those he was entertaining, something he first did one new years eve. We had a big party in the house and we had a small house. I mean, it was a tenement. I mean, its two bedrooms. My Three Sisters slept in one. My mum and dad slept in the other, and my brother and i slept in the bed alcove in the kitchen, and at new year time theyd wake me at 1 00 and the house would be packed full of. I mean, literally packed full of people because my dad was very popular and very loved. And we all learned to sing. Thats how i used to entertain one another. And then they would introduce me. So i would brought my pyjamas aged three and i would do aljolson impersonations. So i would come out, stand on the bunker, which i realised was my first stage. And i remember the effect on the room and it was the effect on the room, i thought, what happens to humans. . I mean, i was a wee boy, but it was something about the collective coming together in a harmonious state. But that harmony would soon be shattered. Coxs father had lost thousands investing in property and was virtually penniless when he was diagnosed aged 51 with pancreatic cancer. Do you remember being told, the moment you were told that your dad was ill . Well, i didnt know my dad was ill. All i knew was in hospital. I didnt know how because i was eight. I mean, yeah, there was not i mean, ijust came home from school one day. It was all very sudden, you know, my dad died within three weeks of his diagnosis. Its always been very hard for me because my dad was so mythic. I mean, he was i was eight when he died. So he was this big presence and mythical presence and exuded kindness, exuded it, you know, and its a hard act to follow because you think, where do i step in . But of course, hes my dad, so ive got part of that in me, but ive also got my mum in me. Ive also got Charity Begins at home with me. Ive also got what the pain that she went through as a result of his demise and the fact that he hadnt completed certain things and left us £10 in the bank because hed given so much away to other people and how she was virtually destroyed by it. His mothers breakdown during the 19505 would lead to an attempted suicide and hospitalisation. My mum was you know, she was in a place called liff. It was the Royal Hospital liff. It was there was west greene, which was the insane asylum. And then next to it was the hospital for nervous diseases, which is where my mother was. And she had electric shock treatment, which was pretty brutal. And in the way it went down, she shrunk to nothing. And her memory was gone when she took. I mean, she could remember who i was, but onlyjust. During the periods when his mother was in hospital, cox would stay with other family. But it was in the then numerous cinemas in dundee where he would feel most at home. Watching movies fanned the flame for acting and gave cox to believe a Working Class boy could be a star. I was in love with the cinema and i wanted to be an actor. But really, i suppose i wanted to be an american actor. I was very much enamoured of american movies. But then i got really rather depressed and i thought, well, theres no way, really, i cant. Im not an american. I dont think i can get there and i dont know what im going to do. I was in the hill town in dundee would have been � 61, � 62. And i went to see this film called saturday night and sunday morning, and there was this guy up there who didnt look unlike me. And hes not an american, but hes got this incredible energy. And it was albert finney. I got this something good seeing as its friday night. This fella got his arm caught in a press. He didnt look what he was doing. Of course, hes only got one eye. He lost the other one looking. At the telly day in and day out. Albert finney i owe so much to. I mean, he eventually became a friend and an influence. I mean, he was a huge influence on my life because he was the real deal. You know, he was from salford, you know, basically Working Class. So his family were a bookies, back window bookies and all of that. But he was phenomenal. He had this phenomenal energy and he was having all this huge success. He did billy liar on the west end. Then he did luther, and then he went to america with luther and he became a big star. It made cox realise he could be one, too. His career began at the dundee repertory theatre. After an inauspicious schooling, he would finally start to shine. But your education was slightly disastrous, wasnt it . It was total. You failed the 11 plus. Clearly very clever. School wasnt for you. School wasnt for me. And you walk into a theatre. And suddenly that was it. It was like i was home. After starting as a stagehand, it wasnt long before cox was on the other side of the curtain. By 1963, he was heading south to join the London Academy of music and dramatic art. Did it feel to you arriving from dundee by trade into the swinging � 60s, did it feel like a time and a place where a Working Class lad with talent had a fair shot . Absolutely. It was so open in the � 60s, there was no side to anything. You were welcomed. All classes were welcome. And, you know, and there was a whole, there was a sort of feeling that we could be classless, we could be. Meritocracy. But its impossible not to instinctively contrast that with what we see when we look at acting today, because there has been a lot of commentary in recent years about the dominance, at least at the very top, of actors who went to eton and a few otherjobs. Thats the problem. I mean, its not theirfault. Its not, but were talking about. | mean, theres so many of them. Theres dominic west, eddie redmayne, benedict cumberbatch, tom hiddleston. I mean, there are so many of them and theyre all outstanding. But why has it happened . Well, its because weve ignored a certain amount of the populace. Weve actually cut off all the channels that were possible. Its depressing. I mean, its depressing in the sense that the channels are not there. And its so easy to establish those channels, as it was for me. Cox took full advantage of the opportunities offered to him, quickly becoming a highly successful theatre actor, playing some of the most coveted roles, including Titus Andronicus and king lear. He won an 0livier award for his role in rat in the skull, one of many awards he received for his stage and screen work as a tv and then film career followed. Succession came late, but the role has been among the best of his career, and he dominated the screen. You seem to have a kind of grudging affection for this chap, logan roy. Well, i lived with them for so long, i kind of understood the man. I mean, he was a very lonely man. Hes a man whos been through a lot of trauma as a child. And we saw these little incidents like when he swims in the second series, i think, and you see the scars on his back and its never explained. Theres so much was which was never explained. And thats the strength ofjesse. He never over explains anything. And theres always the elements of mystery about, did that happen then . Is that why were here now . Why has succession been so successful . Well, i think its very much to do with where we are at the moment about. We see the elon musks, we see the horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible trump. You know, weve seen all these ignominious people. But succession taps into. So it felt strangely current. It tapped into something that felt very contemporary because of both trump and i guess also Rupert Murdoch to some extent. Yeah, murdoch to a certain extent. Murdoch isnt. Murdoch is cannier than any of them. You know, hes always hes much canny. Hes much more, hes a lot more. Hes smarter, ithink, you know, because he doesnt declare himself. And i think thats the element thats in thats in logan, you know, and i think thats the element thats in logan, you know, is that lack of self declaration. And logan is relatively a man of few words as we know, murdoch is, murdoch is a man of action. And when he does something like, you know, sending a fax to his. I dont know if it was a fax, but giving jerry hall the heave ho, you know, i mean, the way he does that is monstrous. But also you go, oh, thats interesting. He sent emails saying, weve had some good times, jerry, which is one way of saying it. Cox has worked with some of the biggest stars, both in front and behind the camera. Ill carve agamemnon in the stone he was the first to play the fictional cannibal Hannibal Lecter in the film manhunter, giving an intense performance. You get my card . I got it. Thank you. How is 0fficer stewart, the one who was first to see my basement . Stewarts fine. The emotional problems i had. Do you have any problems with him . No. No, of course you dont. It came five years before Anthony Hopkins played the role in silence of the lambs, to much Greater Public acclaim. Its wrong to get into a situation when you feel you own the role. You know, that is your role. You own it. And thats not healthy. You know, you have to let it pass. And this is why i go back to thejeremy strong situation, because with roles, just let them pass. They go through you. You dont want to hold on and say, i was the first. I remember i got caught that way because i was sleeping in my hotel room and the phone rang and it was somebody from the daily mail. And he was talking about Hannibal Lecter. And they said, and you were the first Hannibal Lecter . I said, yes, i was the first. I was the first Hannibal Lecter. And of course, that was the heading on the newspaper, that i am the first Hannibal Lecter, it said. And of course, it was awful. You know, it sounded as if i was being very vainglorious and that i owned the part. And, of course, tony, apparently, saw that somebody pointed out to him and he got very upset, rightly, because it was geared, steered in a certain way, and it was very unpleasant. Tony, as in Anthony Hopkins. Tony hopkins, yeah. Tony hopkins and his wife, actually, it was through his then wife who said, you know. And i said, its got nothing to do with me. I said, i was lying asleep and they ring me and theyre bushwhacking, you know, like they do. And i said, yeah, i was the first. Well, i was, it was simple, but i dont have any own ownership on the role. I mean, hannibal� s been played by a lot of people since its a bit like hamlet, you know, you know, you cant own the role and say, i am the hamlet, i am the king lear. No, i mean, its, you know, if youve seen king lear, if youve seen scofield play king lear, have you seen. I was in 0livier� s lear. You know, there are so many versions of king leararound, and theyre all equally good. Who can play a part has become an increasingly controversial subject in recent years, as some have claimed roles should go to those who in real life best identify with a character. What about this idea that only actors youve had certain experiences should play certain roles . Its again, what i talked about earlier on about, you know, the, you know, interfering with the imagination. I mean, iasked ian mckellen about this and he said a very similar thing to you. And it kicked off a bit maybe a couple of years ago now, when helen mirren played golda meir, the great israeli leader, and people said, well, helen mirren is not jewish and therefore she cant play ajewish leader. And your argument is that actually the point of acting is that sometimes youve got to be something that youre not, right . Absolutely. I mean, thats the point. I mean, we can inhabit roles. As part of efforts to achieve what some say is fairer representation, minimum targets are being set in some parts of the industry. The oscars recently introduced quotas, suggesting that films would only be considered for awards if they met certain standards on diversity and inclusion. And Richard Dreyfuss said that this made him vomit. He said, its an art, no one should be telling me as an artist that i have to give in to the latest, most current idea of what morality is. What do you think about this idea that oscars should be subjected to diversity and inclusion . I think we have to be free of all that. I mean, i think we have to be diverse. Thats not. Thats a different problem. But i dont think that we have to be saying, 0h, we have to gear it in that way, because were not telling the truth. We have to tell the truth. Because the oscars have to be judged on artistic merit above all. Thats right. Otherwise, they lose their meaning. You know, i mean, iagree with richard and i understand that because there is a highly imaginative actor who has done some great work and he understands what hes talking about. And more power to his elbow for speaking up about it. Of course, its not going to be popular because nobody likes it and says, oh, no, thats wrong. We have to do this. We have to do that. But the most shocking issue within the Acting Industry in recent years has been the Sexual Exploitation of women. The most notorious abuser, the producer, harvey weinstein, is now serving a nearly ao year sentence for rape. Do you feel that there was a Conspiracy Of Silence . Well, of course. There was a. Not a Conspiracy Of Silence, a conspiracy of silent acceptability. Thats what it was. We accepted it wrongly so. And there were so many actresses from the 1930s and 19505 who had to go through the most horrible things, dealing with much more horrible than this present generation had to deal with. And theyjust did it. They did it because they had no recourse not to do it, you know, and they avoided and they made them. There were a lot of these strong women who dealt with what was going on. You know, this sort of Sexual Exploitation of actresses in a way. As there have been lots of strong women whove spoken out about harvey weinstein, brought them to justice. Well, yeah. I mean, finally, that ball rightly burst. It should have burst many years before harvey weinstein, but it didnt. Coxs passion and willingness to speak his mind has bled beyond the Acting Industry, with him becoming one of the loudest voices in the fight for Scottish Independence. The nation were talking about is for now, the united kingdom. And it makes sense, i think, to turn to politics because youve been a great supporter of Scottish Independence and indeed of the Scottish National party. Just for people who dont know enough about your politics and they only know you through acting, why is your instinct, if indeed it is, why is your instinct still that scotland would be stronger on its own . I was the voice of labour. I mean, i was was a member of the labour party for many years, but it was iraq and we should have been able to stand up and say, no, this is not right. Were destabilising a whole and were still suffering from it. What weve done in iraq, the ramifications of that have been horrendous, absolutely horrendous. How do you go from anger over iraq, which a lot of people would have felt to saying scotland should be an independent nation . Well, it was something i had to readdress something. I think, what is wrong . Why is it not working . And then i started to look at these islands, and then i started to look at Scottish History and realising how scotland had been produced time and time and time again and how constantly it was the poor relation, even though it contributed an enormous amount, but at the same time it wasnt free. You know, were celts. Were people. Were different from anglo saxons and normans. Were different people. And ive come to realise, you know, when i discovered that im 100 celt, im12 scottish, 88 irish, and the irish, how we treated the irish and im part of that heritage. We were treated so badly and we have been treated so badly time and time and time and time again. Let me push back impartially and firmly on what youre saying, because the proponents of the union would argue that there is, nevertheless, for all the history you are talking about, there is something precious and sacred about the union and moreover, that it allows each constituent nation to be bigger than it otherwise would be, especially in a world where power is moving east. I dont agree with you. Its not my view. Im impartial. Its not my view. My feeling is its precisely that we have not being allowed to be who we are and we havent been. Weve served. Weve served and weve judiciously served at our own expense. And i suddenly realise, you see, i do believe we should be a union. I agree with that. But we shouldnt be the united kingdom. We should be a united federation. We should be federal countries in our own right. I think scotland, ireland, wales needs to be their own people and then come together as a union. And i think england almost should be. This is irrational, this is a kind of probably too much. England should be divided in two. North and south . North and south. It should, but it should be its own autonomy. It has its own autonomy. All of these parts of this union should be autonomous. We are not autonomous as a united kingdom. Were not at all autonomous. We have to behave towards what is decided by the westminster government. Lets end with some quickfire questions. So this is maximum ten words, minimum one. Well start with some opinions on other actors. What do you make of brad pitt . Brad is a worker and hes really worked on himself as an actor. I dont think his Natural Inclination was to do that. I think because he was the way he looked, he stumbled into. But i think hes become an extremely fine actor. Michael caine. Actually, i saw him the other night. He was really good. I mean, he can be really good. No, no, no, he is. Sorry. That sounds terribly patronising. I dont mean it. Michaels, you know, hes like me. Hes opinionated and understandably opinionated. I dont always agree with him, and i dont think hes a bad actor. I mean, alfie and stuff like that, when he does what he does, he does it better than anybody. Theres no question about that. But theres just something about him. Hes a bit tory for me. Hes a bit Working Class tory for me. What do you make of helen mirren . I love her. Idris elba. I dont know idris elba, but i admire him. I dont know him at all. Favourite film. Anything with Katharine Hepburn and spencer tracy. When did you last cry . Oh, i cry all the time. What do you fear most . Loss of children. I dont mind about my own loss, but i feel fear for my children. I dont know. As i get older, ifearfor them. You know, if they go off somewhere, i think theyre going to be ok, you know . If you could impart one life lesson from all that youve learnt for that 17 year old brian cox on the train down from dundee to london in the swinging 60s, what would it be . Always pursue your bliss. Always your bliss. Your bliss. Yeah. That which fulfils you. That which brings you to rest. That which gives you a sense of future. A Sense Of Purpose. That which makes your life valid. Are you giving me a Sense Of Purpose . Brian cox is an absolute pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you so much. That was really good. Its really good to talk to you. A hot summers day for many across the country with temperatures in excess of 30 degrees. Im sure it was too hot, but those across the east coast of england were probably cheering when they saw blue skies and sunshine throughout the day because you have seen that low, grey cloud for some time. In actualfact, we had quite a lot of sunshine generally across the country this saturday. Down into the south west, though, a different story. Outbreaks of showery rain. For parts of South West England and wales, we have not seen rain the over four weeks, so welcome news. You can just about make the raindrops out on the top of the water here in padstow, cornwall. As we go into sunday, we are going to start off with a lot of sunshine and once again, the heat is going to build. By the middle of the afternoon, we still have a risk of sharp, thundery downpours. They will be very hit and miss and not everyone will see them. If you do catch one you will know about it. Temperatures once again in south east england, high 20s, or low 30s not out of the question. A little bit cooler and fresher further north and west but still the risk of sharp showers here, and we continue to see the risk of sharp, thundery downpours across much of scotland. Just the Northern Isles staying wet at times, and a little bit cooler. Temperatures of 1a celsius. With all that sunshine around, no surprise to hear that uv and pollen levels remain high to very high. As we move into monday, we still have the risk of some sharp, thundery downpours. Slightly cloudy skies out to the west, and perhaps the best of the weather out to the east because we have got that light south easterly flow. Showers should be few and far between on monday afternoon, and temperatures down just a degree or so. It is going to take its time, but we are likely to see highs generally in the mid 20s, perhaps up to 27 celsius. That is 82 fahrenheit. Moving out of monday and into tuesday, we have still got very little in the way of significant rainfall to come across the country, and the winds will start to turn to more of an easterly direction. That means that further west we continue to see some dry, sunny and warm weather, but even out to the east, we continue to see the cloud staying away and plenty of sunshine, but not quite as warm. Live from london. This is bbc news. In the uk the Conservative Party face three by elections as another mp steps down with immediate effect