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Transcripts For BBCNEWS Africa 20240703

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Prevalent in my country, i wanted to look away. This is vigilantism. No. But the scapegoating of migrants is threatening the fabric of our country. We are coming for you. Cheering as the economy breaks down, south africas Migrant Community is in the firing line. This is a local Branch Meeting of an anti Migrant Group in orange grove, near thejohannesburg city centre. Its called 0peration Dudula, and ive been given rare access. Dudula in isizulu literally means to force out. Theyre planning to go to businesses this evening and ask them about their citizenship, get details, Contact Details with them. So we had an. And it seems that this is a typical kind of Patrol Operation that they do. 0fficialfigures put the number of migrants in south africa at 3. 6 million people. But with one in three south africans out of work, migrants have become an easy target. Singing as night falls, the team sets off for the high street. They sing they want to find the owner of a local shop who they say has information about a recent stabbing. As weve been walking down the main road and passing shops owned by foreign nationals, this group has been singing songs that contain slurs and also shouting very pointed slurs. Loud banging its all very confusing, and there are no police in sight. Why are you getting involved because even with the owner. This is mobjustice. Were trying to make sure that these people who are foreign nationals are respecting us and we are protected in our society. Up the street. The next one. They sing as they move on, they head towards a spot they say is notorious for drug dealing. This corner is where you see a lot of Drug Activity . Yes, its where they buy drugs. White people, our kids, african. But no foreigner. The foreigners are selling. But our people, they are not selling. Theyre just buying and eat drugs. Tell me, what hope do you have . The hope that we have is that the government will end up getting them. 0ur message as a community, that he has to fix where there is a problem. He has to make sure that he come to us and see the way we live. Its like we hoping that tomorrow, it wont be like today. Id heard reports thered been a recent dudula attack at this market. No, we walk the talk. We. Mm, yeah. Well, you lead the way. Yes. All right. Ive come to meet annie, whos a campaignerfor migrant rights. These guys are always on edge. They are always on edge for whatever might happen. Hello. How you doing . Im fine. How are things going . We wont show you if you dont want to. We wont do it. Yeah, its ok. People are understandably reluctant to talk. So youre saying that someone is willing to speak to us . Yeah. Hes the one who was tased. They tased him. He was tased . Yeah. Dont worry. Im not going to show your face. When was this . Last sunday . What did they do to the clothes . 0n the gutter . You havent been able to make a living . Have you your passport to your asylum . Yeah. Oh, you are a citizen . Yes. Did the dudula people, did they ask you if youre a citizen . Youre saying you want to leave . Thank you for your time. And all the best. Zandile dabula is the Secretary General of operation dudula, and one of its founding members. Hello. Things that you are supposed to do. Yeah. And welljust be here. She helps to co ordinate the activities of operation dudula all across south africa. 0k. They converse shes a journalist. Were just going to be here for maybe like about two hours, just observing. Im just here to learn more about her. Weve been in long negotiations to get this access, but the dudula people are still clearly suspicious. So right now youre going to look into the whatsapp messages that youve got. Yeah, yeah. The tip offs. Then we check with the owner of the house. 0k. Then we take it from there. All right. Were being filmed the whole time. Is this the Dudula Whatsapp line . Yeah. How does it work . There was a poster that circulated with these numbers to say if you know of a house, of an rdp house, specifically, that foreign nationals are living in, let us know. Give us the exact address and the exact place. Then we will come through. So rdp housing is social housing in south africa. Its a house that south African Citizens are issued for free when they can prove that they cannot afford their own home, as zandile has just mentioned. Theres a lot responses. Yeah, its a lot of responses. Ok, so now this one, shes giving us the house, the particular house, and wanting to know how they managed to get the rdp house because the husband is from swaziland and the wife is from lesotho. So theyre obviously both foreign nationals. Well check that one. Are these messages coming from all over the country . Sure. Once youve gotten a lead on an rdp house that has foreign nationals living in it, What Happens Next . So once we get the information, solomon will now phone that person that sent the message to find out who lives in the house, how many people are there, and for how long have they been living there . Whilst i check on the system if i can manage to find the owner of the property. Phone dials out on phone all right. She said that shes wearing a Dudula T Shirt she said that shes wearing a Dudula T Shirt and you told her to take it off. Because, you know, foreign nationals, when theyjust see the operation Dudula T Shirt, they know theres trouble. So we dont want them to be suspicious that theres an investigation happening. Ok. Sat nav in 500 metres, turn left. South africans are struggling through an economic crisis. Blackouts are a daily occurrence, unemployment is at 33 . Its even worse in the townships, and thats a source of tension. Were in the township called alexandra in the north ofjohannesburg, known for its inequality, like many other symbols of inequality in this country, but whats particular about alex is that its a stones throw away from sandton city, which is the richest square mile in africa. Ive come to meet bab sabelo. In 2019, he was forced from his home by a Group Calling itself dudula. Did they say why . How did you know they were 0peration Dudula when they came to you . Dudula in alexandra is a distinct entity, completely separate from the organisation id already met with. But the tactics and the rhetoric are similar. So what do you do in that situation . Bab sabelo is now living in this shack, trying to bring up a family. Hes a south African Citizen and he still has to prove it. And this is evidence that you were born here. Yeah. It didnt matter that bab sobelo had spent all his adult life in south africa, that his mother is south african. Car horn hoots in the eyes of dudula, hes different and he has to be forced out. A so called 0peration Dudula task force is going to confront a local shopkeeper, who they say is in a dispute with his landlady over rent. But they only have the landlady� s word for it. So what are you going to do . We need to engage with him. Thats what we do normally. Then well take measures whereby to call the Relevant Department to come and deal with it. Take this side, take this side. Are people scared of you . Having identified their target, the team moves in. Wheres the papers of this business . Bring the papers, put the papers here and well talk. So it was supposed to be a negotiation, and the First Step Towards an amicable resolution has now descended into a confrontation and a screaming match. They all shout the shopkeeper is forced to sign an agreement, giving him two months to leave the premises. This is vigilantism. This one . This. No. Youre not a judge, youre not a policeman, youre not a lawyer. Yeah. But you just tried to hold a hearing. Since we intervene, we made sure theres a peace. Theres a contract that was signed. So that you keep your business, i keep my house. When a certain time comes and then you leave my place. Well, you threatened him, and you didnt really give him a real option. You didnt listen to his side of the story. I was there, i saw it. Yeah, yeah. He didnt get to fully explain. He tried to explain to you that hes unable to leave now, he doesnt have the money. No one pushed us to do that, which is not a crime. It is not a crime. I said to him, do you have documents to be here . What gives you the right for that . Im a citizen. Im legally here. Im a citizen. I have my, my, my, licence. I have my id, i have everything. But youre not an officer of the court. You dont work for immigration. We are not vigilante. He is illegally here. If he was not here, we wouldnt ever, like, have this problem. Theyre celebrating a job well done. But a shopkeeper with a young family to support has just lost his livelihood. Its a Big Day For Zandile and operation dudula, the movement she helped to found. 0peration Dudulas Leadership Team is meeting later today to decide on its future. Oh she laughs so, do you find that you co ordinate everything and you tend to rally everybody . Yeah. You know, sometimes also being a woman around men, you get to carry the whole responsibilities. But its like, more like im the mother of the movement, so, yeah, im surrounded by men. You know, men can sometimes be a bit too slow, so you just need to make sure that you push. Today, the leadership will decide whether 0peration Dudula should become a Political Party and contest next years general election. This one . Thanks. She greets others what they decide will be put to members at a conference in a few days time. So the purpose of today is to create a framework and a Discussion Document for this coming weekend and. Elections are due next year and current polling suggests for the first time ever, the anc vote could fall below 50 . Can we start with the business of the day . Populist movements, like 0peration Dudula, are keen to fill that vacuum. After the meeting, i asked zandile, where did all this start . Its a mess. Our country is a mess. Foreign nationals are working on a 20 year plan of taking over south africa. Where did you get the information about foreign nationals having a plan to take over south africa . Its a rumour, but it looks like its happening because when we see things happening, then now you start seeing that, yeah, actually it looks like there is a plan. If you hear that people have a plan to take over the country but have no way of verifying that, isnt that dangerous . You see drugs everywhere, and most of the drug addicts are south africans rather than foreign nationals. So whats happening . Are they feeding our own brothers and sisters so that it can be easy for them to take over . These are conspiracies and rumours, but the consequences could be really dangerous. Singing and chanting 0peration Dudula on the streets ofjohannesburg. Hundreds have travelled from across south africa to attend todays conference. Including phumla, who id met earlier. We are live, the conference. Whats happening at the conference . Were going to hear everything inside. Oh, ok. So you are to be addressed by the executive today. Yeah. Yes, yes. Singing and chanting its going to be a good, good, good day. There are rumours of a big announcement and the members have come out in force. Theres almost a party atmosphere. But listen to the songs. The intent is clear. When you walk the streets in this country, the street vendors, informal trading is gone. Audience cheers let me tell you where theyve gone to. Theyve gone to notjust foreigners, they went to illegal foreigners, and government is doing nothing about it. Cheering thank you. That is shameful. Bloomberg speaks to 430 million households all over the world, and they broadcasted the story that operation dudula is a vigilante group. Cheering shouts of agreement reuters followed that message and all, including cnn and bbc, all of them. As a part of their presentation today, the leadership has attacked experts. Theyve also attacked mainstream media, telling their membership that the media has a conspiracy to make them look bad, to paint them as vigilantes, to paint them as xenophobic, which is very similar to rhetoric from other Populist Movements around the world. Cheering 0peration Dudula does not have sponsors, we dont have any funders, we use oui own monies. It looks like it costs a lot of money. And this is all member money. Its not money, i tell you, its just being creative. This is all creativity that you see here. Theres nothing hectic. We didnt hire anything. The camera guys, some of them are some of our members, but some decided that, you know what, were going to run with this because we can see its heading somewhere. It looks. Official. It looks like it was put together professionally. Audience no so youre going to have to make this decision today. And the recommendation that was given to the nec was the following. Audience cheers its official. 0peration Dudula is going to become a Political Party. Cheering and whooping. And intends to contest next years general election. Ive come to meet zandile one last time. She greets others hey. I still have a few unanswered questions. Busy day . Its always hectic. Yeah. Problems never end. Youve managed to gain a following on the Singular Message that foreigners must go and once illegal foreigners or all foreigners are gone, their problems will go away. Is that not running on hate . Ok, so we must be realistic here, that most of the problems that we have are caused by the influx of foreign nationals. We were at an operation yesterday. What was supposed to be a conversation very quickly turned into a confrontation. Ill be honest with you, in some instances, you need to really be harsh. We dont promote violence and we dont want people to feel harassed. But ill tell you that at some stage, we really need to push harder. Thats a vigilante. Exercise. Like, you guys are a vigilante group. We cannot be under attack by foreign nationals and do nothing about it. Something needs to happen. But it will be sorted out. 0peration Dudula will be in power. 0peration Dudula talks about crime. They talk about poverty. But i didnt hear anyone talk about the legacy of apartheid, when black south africans were shut out of the economy en masse. Its a legacy were still living with, made worse by Government Corruption and looting on a grand scale. I went on this journey to learn more about the kind of people who would join a group like 0peration Dudula. What are their motivations . Why do they have such a hate for foreigners . It was that simple. And once i met members of dudula, i realised that a lot of them are just like the people from back home. People i know, people from my neighbourhood, and they struggle with the same things i grew up struggling with. But whats been disappointing is that these people have taken that pain and. Created more pain. Scapegoating foreigners is not going to fix the drug issue, its not going to fix crime, its not going to fix unemployment or corruption. Inequality is not going to address those things, itsjust going to create more and more conflict. And thats devastating. Live from london. This is bbc news. The Ministry Of Defence tells the bbc it will provide the support of armed soldiers to London Police after dozens of met officers handed in their weapons. Touchdown, i repeat src has touched down. And there you heard it the nasa probe which has spent the last seven years flying through space carrying the largest Asteroid Sample ever collected touches down. Uncertainty surrounds the future of the uks high speed hs2 rail line a senior Cabinet Minister says it would be � crazy� not to review the project amid rising costs. Hello and welcome

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