Transcripts for BBC Radio Sheffield BBC Radio Sheffield 20170904 000000

Back. Across. The menus on 5 Live as international condemnation for North Korea following the latest nuclear test. Takes the advantage in the race for the Formula One title. With. South Korea says it's militaries carried out a missile training drill in response to North Korea's nuclear test follows a warning from u.s. Defense Secretary James Mattis that pian young will be met with massive military force if it threatens America or its allies Professor Hazel Smith is from London Zia bestie School of Oriental and African Studies Kim Jong un was to $400.00 plus tomorrow we wouldn't see the problems go away that we have so we have to think what are we doing in terms of relationship with this state and what does the state do and what are the people in charge and state in the face of the sanctions Scotland's 1st minister Nicholas judge and expected to scrap the one percent cap on public sector pay rises She's due to set up her plans for the coming year on Choose day as a warning that policing in England and Wales is facing a perfect storm because of rising crime shortages the president of the police superintendent Association governor Thomas will deliver the message in a speech to his annual conference the Home Office says extra police funding is still under discussion. 110th of 50 year old men have the heart of a 60 year old Public Health England also predicts almost 7 and a half 1000 people will die of heart disease or stroke this month Dr Mark Knapton is from the British Heart Foundation this problem is driven by a number of factors play behavioral refractor such as smoking diet physical activity and crucially medical risk factors which include blood pressure and cholesterol and there are too many people living with high blood pressure and I don't know about the state of emergency has been declared in Los Angeles as a city battles the worst wildfires in its history 3 homes have been destroyed and hundreds more have been evacuated California has had a heat wave in the flames have been fanned by strong winds. A bomb disposal team in Frankfurt successfully defuse an unexploded British bomb from the 2nd World War 65000 people had to leave their homes while the operation took place. Let the team on it with a British bomb you have a particularly difficult task on top of it all once the fuses have been removed the detonators have to be pulled out they are highly sensitive all the time crystals could have formed and they would be explosive but in this case it all worked very well because the team worked very well and still downs co-founder Walter backers died at the age of $67.00 the group was best 9th the hits including reeling in the years and Ricky Don't Lose That Number. Is deputy editor of complex music you know you can hear the American tradition. On the black in general. I think you know it's like to wake up. It's heart it's rock. But it's so much more. That's the news we can now get an update on the u.s. IP and David Laws at Flushing Meadows for us he's our man is he with you for this one and Maria share paver former champion a wildcard her journey is ended at the 4th round stage defeated by honest artists a vast of a in 3 sets but going through Venus Williams 2 time champion here she came through against Conor Suarez at Novara getting ready for the night session the stadium is starting to pile up and the 1st match on the pitch of the current Wimbledon champion and 30 covering him agree to against former Wimbledon champion 13 seed Patrick Whittaker a 4th meeting between the 2 and on court now Kevin Anderson the 28th seed leads panel ready by 2 sets to one it's full 3 and some on serve in the 4th and he with the rest of the day sports news as he was in Crawford Lewis Hamilton has taken the lead at the Formula One drivers championship for the 1st time this season after victory at the Italian groom Prix for Sebastian Vettel was 3rd in this 3 points behind Hamilton with 7 races to go. Both got their 1st win away unless the Tigers for 14 years they play the closing stages with just 13 men but held on to take it 2723 teams guys Chris Froome increased his overall lead Espana to 61 seconds after the 15th stage and Belgium of the 1st European team to qualify for next year's football World Cup Romelu Lukaku scored the winner in their 21 victory over Greece this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online smartphone and tablet taking a quick look at Monday's whether it will be a down start to the day but across the south Bell the brightest spells on for feel warm across the north it will become what and when do with highs of 20 in Manchester getting more from p.c. Fun Fun Park just really welcome to Linus interviews with the biggest and best in the world of arts and entertainment we have created for you and Rushmore Ronnie Wood Rio Ferdinand and Jackie Abbott it's almost like a free social media has been for the last 5 or 6 years or so for years ago there were people in the new generations going out you're seeing people still remember you are except the music which fights life. This is a fortnight I'm 5 on Dawson added by coming up in this hour the real cost of storm Harvey in Texas also what's the lesson the breaks it negotiator wants to teach Britain for leaving the union will keep you updated with the tennis news from the u.s. Open in Flushing Meadows we'll get the week's news from Brazil and we'll hear the tributes paid to one of the cleverest guys in music and to remember from Monday morning grammar phone in in an hour's time if we open up the floodgates of grammar and language and anything in what are the observed outcomes that you fear the most What are the observed outcomes that might result give us examples please you might come across one would see already and to join us in an hour for the phone in 085909693. It's been 10 days now I reckon Harvey made landfall with winds of 130 miles per hour on Friday the $26.00 near the city of Corpus Christi on the Gulf Coast of Texas as these still worked its way north east woods along the coast dumped an estimated 27 trillion gallons of rain and left swathes of the city of Houston flooded and estimates of the financial cost of aave vary upwards from 37000000000 to $75000000000.00 on Wednesday the state's governor Greg Abbott said Texas could need more than $125000000000.00 from the federal government to help it recover well the human costs of the storm will be much more difficult to calculate as the waters clear away America's insurers will be out in full speed for some people Robert Hartwig is the clinical associate professor of finance at the University of South Carolina and a consultant to the Insurance Information Institute Professor what percentage do you think of homeowners in he still will be able to call an insurer in the coming days and weeks. Donna Shanley few Houstonians will be able to call upon as flood insurance for recovery purposes in the wake of Hurricane Harvey in Harris County Texas which is where Houston is approximately 15 percent of homeowners have flood insurance if that same homeowner homeowner has sustained wind damage for instance nearly 100 percent of those homeowners would have had coverage but when it comes to flying a far far smaller percentage will in fact have coverage did they never expect their homes to flood then. Many people may not have expected their homes to flood but in fact she was that is a well known flood zone as does the entire coastal region of Texas and even in the immediate coastal areas only a minority of people will purchase flood coverage Houston is actually known as the by use city which means that everybody knows that it's low lying prone to flooding and has many waterways where water frequently rises and homes do frequently flood the area unfortunately many people still believe that it will never happen to them and invariably And unfortunately it does. Is it the. Host of insurance. People bold to buy. Actually have ironically it's actually the opposite the cost of flood insurance it is a it is a federal program known as the National Flood Insurance Program program it is actually subsidized so the rates that are paid are actually below those that are private insurer would charge given the risk that the insurer is assuming so the rate is actually subsidized despite that only a minority of individuals would actually purchase the coverage and there are a number of reasons for that again the view that the simply couldn't happen me is prevalent but also there is a widespread view that why purchase the coverage when in fact after an event one could then apply for federal disaster relief aid and therefore avoid the cost of the flood coverage for the many years in between actual was in fact we've already thing tens of thousands of individuals and may actually be hundreds of thousands of individuals to apply for such what is that and how much will it be. Will everybody supply fruit or will there be restrictions. There will be restrictions in the sense that you need to demonstrate some actual law but aid is kept and the cap is presently just under $40000.00 u.s. Dollars whereas if the homeowner had purchased flood insurance the cap would have been $250000.00 and for a business owner it would have been $500000.00 so unfortunately many people are they the believe this mistaken belief that this federal aid will in fact make them whole when in fact it will not and not only will it not make them financially the whole process is uncertain and very time consuming and they could take many many months for them to receive even the 1st dollar of that prefers we see this isn't over again. Most notoriously of calls the devastation in New Orleans often how we can continue but we see over and over again the a modern city being decimated being literally brought. In by natural disasters such as. Flood waters and so on what is wrong what is going wrong here we are we building. In the wrong places Who is it just these modern cities of expended such as you have expended so exponentially that they called code. Part of it is also that they may have been able to cope with Once upon a time if you get to the root of it is actually the economic incentives that are perverse Not only are we subsidizing what Wintec we are subsidizing individuals to and businesses to form along the coastal areas through subsidized flood insurance but it is also an economic fact that these areas that are flood prone or prone to major hurricanes and other major disasters they are often attractive areas there are coastal areas for example and many people would like to live there and the politicians that rule in these particular areas try to encourage make it on the growth they want to encourage population growth they want to encourage the formation of wealth encourage employment and by so doing they've created extreme vulnerability but that vulnerability is only sustainable by virtue of the fact that while all the benefits accrue locally to the local economy when the downside risks happen such as a major hurricane those costs are then have to be shared by everyone across the United States by all taxpayers so so the economic and says Is there such that role that states cities towns and counties had the incentive to allow virtually under. I don't growth in many of these areas because they know that when in fact disasters strike others will pay the tab but but should be flipped the project the flood flooding seems to be a bit of a problem here was a problem with Katrina it with Katrina we had the levees broke in New Orleans had been figs for years some of the wood block did so on. Do we need to it's to the infrastructure of these great cities tonight. Whether it's in New Orleans such as after Katrina or New York City in the wake of Sandy in 2012 and again Tuesday here in 2070 the story will be replayed time and time again most likely even in cities such as Miami and potentially with the next hurricane somewhere in the southeast coast of the United States but there's no question that that dollar spent and presently the estimates are that potentially Relief Act just for Harvey might top $125000000000.00 those dollars would be much better spent on on the investment and infrastructure necessary to prevent the flooding from occurring in the future otherwise it will occur time and time again and states such as yours cities such as Houston effectively have no building code and so building occurs in a way that does not take into account the vulnerability of that city as it grows professor many things really appreciate that Professor Robert Hartwig that of the universe who saw the Carolinas close to Flushing Meadows now with a us open with the dyed session is a little delayed with me is salmon was at Fisk and between God and to give its mouth Well you can hear in the back that he might be able to hear the voice of patch committed to his tee time Wimbledon champion she had the horrific attack in a house 6 months ago when she interrupted an intruder as she was trying to get out the way he cut all fingers in her left hand which. Her tennis playing had He's made a remarkable recovery to be back playing 6 months later the other voice you can hear the background has gotten him a great he's the current Wimbledon champion Now this is a heavyweight clash the reason it's starting a little bit late in the talking now is the much before was Venus Williams against the cost of our reserves now I don't because baby sister Serena get better but I didn't go so Venus Williams came through she's a 2 time champion but this match this evening to start my session it's huge these 2 players can hit big f. About being in the Greece at the world number one ranking is up for grabs to the lights are off there are red and blue spotlights beaming down the court a very short the players will come out and about I would say about 10 minutes time we will get a play on the way Ok I will come back she adjourned the pool so that Max thanks very much for g.d.p. Genovese and. Rushing matters now the chief e.u. Negotiator in BRICs said talks Michel Barnier has come under fire as you can imagine here in the u.k. At least because he says he wants to teach the British people about the serious consequences of leaving the e.u. While insisting that he didn't want to punish Britain the British government minister leading the brakes in negotiation team David Davis accused the e.u. Of trying to put pressure on the u.k. By demanding a high divorce payment Mr Davies said he wouldn't allow that to happen while Mr Davis said the e.u. Was making itself look silly by insisting there's been no progress in talks on Britain's departure from the Bloc Dr Victoria how Dimon is a lecturer in British politics at Leeds University and. Give me her reaction to David Davies his comments. I don't know that terribly surprising to be completely honest with you I think this is just the latest step in the negotiation but yeah it has become increasingly frustrated as I think many people both in the u.k. And Europe have about the lack of progress I've been a simply trying to stoke the fire to push to go see a show to ensure that a deal over the the mother Syria element. So that every can get on to discussing those cases that really everybody wants to talk about what you think this is a this is a saying about the e.u. Wanted to put pressure now on Great Britain to pay a high divorce price whatever that might be I got I think it's tough negotiations David Davis is a very experienced politician Banjara is a very experienced politician go Shater And I think the buzz is a very tempted to call the press in order to try and get the upper hand David Davies clearly want to pay the minimum amount of money out to the as part of this divorce settlement and have a checking to suggest that the e.u. And the new a the blackmailing of pressurising These are traditional methods that would be utilized in order to try and reduce I notice try to apply pressure to the negotiating table step back from that position I don't think that they will be successful but I think that that will be what he is hoping for but to be clear course is the brings the ball in at the moment that's very much the 64000000 dollar question realistically both of these these organizations want to get on to discussing the real base of the issue which is what is Britain's relationship going to be with the European Union after breakfast in terms of free trade different sectors like that but realistically Britain has evolved to lose out to us and Britain has been very clear right from the get us to start talking about these issues is a you have you have insisted that the divorce Bill as it's been labeled is settled 1st and that's I think really the maximum of pressure is on the British government that a go she can take it or does it get a deal there. That they can start stabilizing their argument and get on to what they considered to be the really crucial elements that being sad they don't want to pay out too much money to the e.u. Because oh please the how the critics are hope for the most pressure is on the British in this particular set of circumstances and we the British people feel left out as you know of the Brits conversation mostly because the government saw it off by saying well hang on a 2nd we can't we can't reveal what our negotiations are going to be a head of time just because the British people want to hear about what it is because we've got to hold our cards close to our chest but what's happening now was happening essentially don't sound human is that the British government in the guise of David Davies and then going out and making all sorts of deals about we have no say about and we don't know what the price will have to pay and there will be a price to be paid for our breaks it as David Davis himself acknowledges we will have to pay the e.u. . A substantial amount of money he says not up to $50000000000.00 pounds a year but whatever it is of his $50000000000.00 or $30000000000.00 or $20000000000.00 or whatever it is we don't have to say about it we don't have a say that most of that is absolutely accurate that's been sad if you think about it it's a little bit like give all and if you commit to think during your marriage for example if you commit to pay the education bill for your child for example there would be like when you went to that evolved to say well you know I did commitments that were very longstanding now that you've decided that you don't want to be in your organization and that the baby you can feel to step away from the UK a bit and that's exactly what he was saying in the 27 member states as a you know so I don't call commitment the u.k. Based. Therefore it is not our responsibility to pick up for you because you decided you don't do it anymore that leaves sad the u.k. Government and David Davis is Department of again we cannot give away on the go sheeting position we cannot tell the British public what we're doing because actually that would give away you know all of the cards in the game before we'd even play. But that being said there really haven't been any negotiations in terms of red lines usually before to go see a show you would at least have some idea about whether that all goes out the things absolutely are inflexible but realistically we haven't heard any of that the government argued to negotiating strategy its critics argue that it is simply that they don't know the answers and so kind of surprising that somewhat expected that they don't know the end they don't as a negotiating strategy and therefore that play the cards close to their chest in that regard there's lots of different stories coming out from different sides all trying to convince you that they have the answers but the problem is when there are so many perspectives of Bragg's it that we didn't go and hold a referendum on we didn't go and vote on whether it will be a soft bricks it or a hard break here or in between breaks it whatever it might be and now those options are on would say Will we don't have a say as to which way there is and you know you know don't to hunting with the countries divided as to whether you know as to what kind of breaks it that we felt that we signed up to and if the government is saying we won't tell you anything about these negotiations which have consequences is what kind of breaks that we end up with then they are withholding you know very political way important issues of conversation from us it is it is the problem with Africa by their a question about so complicated if you ask e.s.o. That question about something complicated of the membership of an organization then you may well I don't with an answer but it is the only answer and I will of the people who voted for Bracks it will have voted for a very of different reasons I will want lots of different things we know that the soft Breck's it was the approach taken by many during the campaign Boris Johnson David Davis John Redwood they taught by word of practice to not what we're getting at there is an argument that says to break the referendum was called because of Conservative Party infighting and the breadth of the way getting is being driven by conservative party fighting. The conservative party the Conservative government would argue that isn't the case but as we know the British public are not at present about to be asked again for their attitude to back that and therefore there will be no 2nd vote at the moment and that's what the British public have essentially given a blank check to the conservative government in order to essentially create a practice that they wish I did will be shaped by what the Conservative government feels that there is in that best interest and feel that is in the interest of deciples us we're bargaining chips do we have what do we have in our favor to bargain with in these negotiations anything we are a big market I don't get that we're one of the leading economies in the world we are a big player in the Foreign Affairs defense policy for example where key player data we have not insubstantial cannot be acknowledged Europe wants to do a deal with but I don't think that we should run away from the fact that in comparison to 27 member states of Europe we are a drop in the ocean in terms of population in terms of market share and they also need to be reminded that members of the European You do not want to create a situation where Britain has such a good deal after leaving the e.u. That it could potentially encourage both a fairly apathetic European nations such as Sweden at all Denmark for example to follow Britain's example so they sensually the European Commission what essentially Chris situation where Britain is dealt with they do business with us they want to make sure that the European in you get the best out of the deal and it's I'm surprised that they would want that that is the job to represent the 27 member states and we haven't even mentioned the domestic political promises around this as you know the government's repeal bill will be debated in Parliament this week and labor have already said that they'll vote against the law as planned a less is change will that mean that for law because the conservatives do have a small majority does they're likely to somehow push this bill through anyway yes I think that the situation. The great retail bill is a kind of label became more complicated after the general election crisis in general it was always going to take it now it working like a real battle field as to whether he's going to get past this is your vision that the Labor Party by themselves then they want to be seen as the party of Bracks and they want to be seen as a party that accepts the referendum result but is providing something different to the conservatives and that's all well and good but it is still a very narrow path for them to tread and that's why I think this is a great it was political wrangling a great deal of a tight vote a great deal of political leverage between the parties but I have to say that I think when push comes to shove the Labor Party is going to really struggle to justify voting against the great repeal bill because of the will of the people I think that will be with that essentially is to beat them into submission and I think that the Conservative Party will have very very difficult days ahead of them but ultimately the quick over will get through because quite frankly if it doesn't what position does that leave the government what position does that leave Britain in terms of a jury on him and from the politics department of Leeds University is to go with the back pages this morning from the Daily Express was the worst of. Prepared to play Survivor here at Wembley tonight. Never doubt prize. Following another underwhelming performance from England than most I mean yes it was 4 nil they did the job you could argue it was professional but 3 of those goals came in in the dying minutes of the game and so they were proved by England fans he spent a lot of money and travel quite a long wise to go and watch but. Was have to acknowledge is that they do have a right. To criticize the team he says you should never doubt the pride of the players particularly this group. He says they almost had to March and that is. Why they play with this kind of inhibition because the trying too hard pushing too hard they're making mistakes and that's what leads to these rather inferior I think performances he will know this better than any of the recent England managers because he was an England player. Not so long ago. To let him right on. It. By saying. And he said he's in a position to comment on this Nancy made a very interesting aside he said that when he was playing there were several players. Although he would 9 them and perhaps quite rightly so he said there were several players it was jury particularly from friendly matches because. We don't need this bother we don't need this pressure we don't need this. Sort of scrutiny we'd rather have the way cough. Think is quite an informative insight from him. And his point he was trying to make by saying that was the pain with a group of players he will show up he will always offer the services whether it's for a friendly or qualifying game tonight. They should be applauded for that rather than criticized for not caring too much having said that Wayne Rooney perhaps relax a little bit too much but. He's going to have a bit. Or is make his wife. Theme Ivorians it's his wife but. What about this qualifier much later on tonight then how you crazy Well I think it's going to be another awkward one when we've gotten it Jordan Henderson who is captain and motor. Again. They got the job done and it really was much more than. Much price for. Well we captain again tonight this was part of Saskatoon plan try a few people this is Henderson's turn although it's had more times than most which I think is interesting Anderson himself but he would like to lead into the World Cup in Russia next year. You know this is going to be another awkward game is a game expected to win you have this extraordinary record in qualifying this just can't take into major tournaments but there are guys who are likely to defend very deep and numbers so once again it is done for them to find a white one packet now I think that the casing and all of this is a very dire is back after suspension because it's the kind of intelligence calm footballer who can figure out why the system while the game is going on and that might be exactly what angle and made up ones like. The c. 5 was good in a fog rather than shot of in Iraq the u.s. Defense Secretary James Mattis is war North Korea faces a massive military response if it threatens America or its allies the White House is also considering cutting trade with countries which do business with the regime these chief negotiator Michele Banja says he doesn't think the financial implications of leaving the e.u. Has been explained to people in the u.k. The government insists it won't give in to demands for a high divorce Bill bomb disposal experts in Frankfurt to successfully to defuse a massive unexploded bomb from World War 265000 people were ordered to leave their homes in Germany's biggest post-war that he way Sion and started to McDonald's restaurants so walking out in a row is a 0 hours contracts and conditions work is Cambridge and created began action midnight is expected to last for 24 hours that's a new. Yes we can now get an update on the u.s. Open g.g. Salman's at Flushing Meadows for us the night session is underway it's pitch critter against Governor McGreevey have McGrew thought with a chance to end these 2 weeks as the world number one she's currently the 3rd best player in the world it's a 4th meeting between these 2 it's very very early stages in front of 23000 people it's a game piece both players having lost just the one point earlier today it was the end of the u.s. Open road this year for Maria Sharapova Venus Williams is on in the last couple of minutes Kevin Anderson has put his place in here so Open quarter finals now he with the rest of the day sports news as he was in Crawford Sadie's Lewis Hamilton has taken the lead of the Formula One drivers championship for the 1st time this season after victory at the Italian grown Prix Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel is 3 points behind the Briton with 7 races to go there's obviously some races to go there's so much that can happen but the whole year he's been up ahead 25 points or whatever it may be and then you know comes down and goes back up come down so it's a funny it's you know to overhaul it and the plan is to not have it go the other way again and once and came home have his teammate Valtteri Bottas with Vettel in 3rd at Monza all of the views in reaction are available on the checkered flag podcast from the 5 Live websites where bass players got a long awaited win in rugby union's Premiership. Have Won Oh Well 'd the road for those times since 2003 they were reduced to 13 men who want to finish yes bar holding on for a 2723 win despite late pressure from Leicester Tigers it means 50 tries were scored in the opening weekend of the Premiership season Arsenal legend Ian Wright has responded strongly to midfielder Mesut Ozil calling his criticism of media pundits laughable writes words came out of the German international who is into the final year of his deal at the Emirates some x. Players to stop talking. And start supporting I'd love to see you instead of coming I'm going to go with the so-called former players we're not talking about former President sizing a team that's charging up the League and winning league just we won the f.a. Cup but we're talking about a team that's under performing and not just the team the people in the boardroom the manager decisions everybody you can hear more of Wright's view on the 6 I 6 podcast it's available on our website or your preferred polka supplier Team Sky's Chris Froome increased his overall lead of the world to a Spaniard he finished 5th on stage 15 to stretch his advantage of intenser nimbly to 61 seconds in the Super League qualifiers there were wins for witness Catalan Dragons and a whole chaos and Rio in pick bronze medalist Ed Lang won the trap silver at the world shotgun Championships in Moscow across the u.k. This is b.b.c. 5 Live in the fight with the bat is such a good cross to Brazil now and Sam Cowan Sam pound about the week's news you know this time good morning. Get it done has a going to be everywhere 1st of all choices plans to dig up the Amazon essentially . Yes Well it's certainly been blasted as that by environmentalists So what this is about it concerns a territory about the size of all that David Mark a guy says a huge area in the Amazon and this is cool that the result of the break up reserve and this area still to be considered extremely rich in minerals and basically the government Michel's him as the president of Brazil he signed it aid to Crete to basically abolish this result of and open up the area for commercial mining cities and as you can imagine the environmentalists went absolutely bonkers about this you know and quite rightly so I mean you know this is a huge area in in the Amazon and would involve They say a lot of deforestation a lot of pollution because of the mining the decree was actually over. It was actually been suspended now and there will be a $120.00 days before it goes back to being talked about in the Brazilian government but yet basically environments of this across Brazil are extremely concerned about this we've seen on the Brazilian social media often the decree was signed you know s.o.s. Amazonas everyone changing that have an eccentric cetera I was actually in the region last week of just go by the South I visited the region I visited the resort you know there are indigenous tribes living there and they say that basically if this you know decree goes ahead and the places are going that the place is indeed opened up commercial mining purposes that's basically the traditional way of life over because of course they need to Homs they need to use the rivers is already high very high amounts of carry in those rivers Datsun because you know we've got a legal mining going on there and that's actually the justification for the government project it's to regularize of the illegal mining. I don't so if you try to investments bring jobs etc etc But of course the critics are saying that basically this is just they could end up putting money in the hands of a few while the state will be left with the destruction of the Amazon I'm glad that you made the comparison of the size of Denmark because that is something we can do with you know as an image that we have in our minds and we recognize it demo very small country within the context of Europe in this region I suppose relative to the . Small as huge Zille is but relatively small and you know in the greater landscape of Brazil Denmark which I have the length and breadth has a population of 5000000 what about this area. This area the population is really small dogs you know it's not it's a it's a reserve it's Forest Reserve basically there are 7 territories inside 7 reserve forest reserve territories and then we go to indigenous demarcated lands and then what's known as a sustainable traditional extract to preserve not because so with inside we're talking people in the few 1000 starts them but it's it's the damage to the environment that we don't often use that everyone's real concern about I do get that but this is a problem isn't it I imagine now you know I'm not saying by my views are like I would have any I don't know the area but I'm saying that this is a problem when Indigenous people challenge any sort of development in the lands they live on their traditional lands which I'm not arguing with I'm just saying that these their traditional lands in the greater scheme of things in the greater scheme of quote unquote democracy which they may not feel a part of or not but at least that is the the the government's traditional perspective on organizing the peoples within its borders. They lose out when they say well we've got a a piece of land Amazon rain forest the size of the country of Denmark where 5 knob 1000000 people live and live quite comfortably by the way compared to a few 1000 people on that landscape. Well yeah absolutely that's the thing I mean of course the rights of the Indigenous Land is actually in striking shrine in the Brazilian constitution so that is the that's the angle that Indigenous people are saying here and that you know they basically go into this argument that their traditional way of life would be destroyed if this if this money project goes ahead and this is the side that the environmentalists are backing or so like I say there's already like a sun amounts of pollution there in the rivers you know high levels of mercury in the rivers Accenture and they're saying that all of this will get a lot if indeed the air is opened up to international mining purposes. And as it is the protection they have within it can scan situation worth the paper it's written on has it protected them in the past or not. Well the Constitution was written 90 days you know to go remember the new constitution but basically not also not I mean like even with demarcated Indigenous land which the is the key to proceed which indigent people gain protections and gain the legal rights of their land and legal protections when they have the exclusive right so they can have that nobody else can come in and use the land for productivity but even with this dog we see like a huge you know we see companies encroaching on these lands getting very close to the we see basically we see people taking the taking the States a court to try and like talk you know to try to over time on the rights to these lands except for a so you know indigenous people remain in the most by far the most marginalized people in Brazil was also known as you can you know I'm sure you've visited Brazil you know this is a deeply unequal country and you're really indigenous people they really have the worst of luck in Brazil out of anyone having visited Yeah I've tried but I've mentioned some say something kept is the Brazilian martial arts people see I wanted to dance essentially is not yeah martial arts is a really done so that's the kind where it's not I was I mean I know its history and its history in Slaven does come from a proper martial arts nowadays we just dance around don't even he hits each other is that what attracts a British mixed martial arts fighter who lives in Brazil and has been espousing on politics to the country. Well he was actually went to Brazil for a different reason this is Darrin's Hill way bricks British mixed martial arts fights from there were all he was actually stabbed twice in the back at a party in livable during a fight and after that he was it was considered that he should leave the u.k. And go a little bit of those are his believing in Brazil for the last 3 years now I believe speaks reasonably good Portuguese to I must admit and he left a rather surprising piece of political commentary off to his latest victory. Was the song. One of the you know that was almost one point. After the. Other There was one that was the reverse of the current. I don't want to be left alone. These ones are interested you know no matter where he Silis goes or isn't a big miss means Brit pretty good Brazilian How did that go down the name calling for the former president to go and do that he should have though he is proud he is above the right wing. Well we haven't really sing that much of a reaction yet also this involves Because you know it was our yesterday we're seeing this blood published in the in the in the media basically But you know Brazil being such a polarized place basically Lula supporters will be calling plays hate and bows and arrows supporters will be you know calling you know recording in Malaysia and same a great guy he is so this just delicious go back a little bit here explain who these 2 characters are that he's talking about so he's calling for the prison or the pretty the president personally former President Lula to go to jail Lula was convicted recently of corruption but he remains free pending an appeal so this fight's was calling for us to be in jail and he was calling for jail bo'sun r.-o. Who is a congressman to be president in and there's going to be elections in Brazil next year 2018 Lauro is 2nd in the in the opinion polls at the moment behind if indeed Lula runs he could be in jail by then he made or he may not be able to run because of this because of this conviction now also Naro is a very very controversial carousel in Brazil was a very controversial politician he's you know very very quite hard right wing He's a former Army captain you know he's always praising Brazil's military dictatorship when Jumah who said he was removed from power when she was impeached in 2016 when the joy of OSA Laura made his vote in the Congress to have her removed he said are in memory over Coronel. Who is a dictatorship general that basically commanded shop a torture squad which in fact was the same that tortured German who said So you know with this gives you no idea what kind of guy he is he's also said stuff by things in the past like off if you have a gay son it's because you haven't given up beatings this kind of stuff he's toned down this kind of out of the phobic kind of rights Rick breeze. Like it's understood that he's only really done that because he believes it could affect his image at the 2018 elections but he's very controversial but he remains also very popular especially with young people and very wealthy. That you know he's 2nd in the Senate in the opinion polls go right now I was going to say Sam We're going have to leave that last moods talk about about this we're going to come back to On another occasion Sam cow there in San Paolo Let's go back to Flushing Meadows now with the Wimbledon champion a potential were well number one been moved Ruth is phrase in Petra. Gigi Simon is there for us to you what's happening there well don't. You mention kid and these 2 weeks and I want to get off to a cracking start he's dropped just 4 points on its full one in favor of McGorry 3 from Spain against Petra commits but he's only in a tournament back since the horrific knife attack in her apartment blistering start on the spot if there is a lot at stake that price of this year she hasn't gone past the 2nd round this for a place in the quarter finals of the u.s. Open and as it stands it's 41 in favor of the current. Thanks very much at times just coming up just just after 60 minutes I believe. My goal was that. This is Ricky Don't Lose That Number. That. We know this I know we do it again have you for that Ricky Don't Lose That Number One album chart reading in the years old shoes by the American group Stevie Dan the guitarist and songwriter water Becker from the group has died at the age of $67.00 the band. He did speak in the ninety's seventy's with it such as those chains and Steely Dan blade musical boundaries are the blend of jazz rock and 12 Earlier I spoke to the Grammy Award winning record producer Larry Klein who was a friend and I began by asking him what Walter was like Walter was extraordinarily smart intuitive He was one of those fall outs that make you just shake your head and and think I should just go back in my bedroom and stay home you know it was such an incredibly smart. Well read Curious a great songwriter Someone who are just really really thought about how great songs are constructed and how to how to do new things with them and it really was one of my favorite people in the world and I'm just pretty much guided by the you know his passing and. Certain people you know you lose certain people and and you just have to resolve yourself that you're going to miss them every day is spiral c.t. Down Donna Fagan also said that talked about how smart she was and that Kelly's part of his narrative was the smart musically as well yes he was smart and I always like to say that he was smart of the smart way rather than smart in the stupid way it was smart in a way that was not learned by rote. Learning to empirically he was smart in a way where where he had really listen carefully to a lot of music of all types especially jazz but a lot of classical music too and it wasn't classically trained and he didn't. He was never instructed in proper music theory or anything but he knew what he liked and he knew how to move chords in a way that was sounded fresh to him and so. The way that he approached music was intuitively but incredibly well informed do you remember when you. First met him was at the 2000 Grammys. Which was the year but Steely Dan. $1000.00 of the year and they wanted. A big upset and because they were up against a bunch of records that had done much better than their record 2 Against Nature and when their record was announced as the winner of album of the year there was a real bifurcation in the room and you know some people were very kind of very disappointed and horrified because there were a lot of records that were of a more r. And b. Band that had done a lot better but the Steely Dan record was their 1st record in a long time and it was a fantastic record it was beautifully written and impeccably made and produced and I attended that. Ceremony with my ex-wife Joni Mitchell and and we both instantly sprang to our feet and were giving them a standing ovation and you know some people some people did the same and then some people were kind of staring in disbelief. In the parties afterward I was introduced to him and we were kind of mutual fans of course I had been a fan of Steely Dan's for years and years just like all of the needs issuance of that era some degree my sense of melody and chord movement was shaped by some of what they had done and he had heard a lot of my bass playing and different records that I had worked on and I guess enjoyed them and was curious about them and so we struck up a really great friendship started talking on the phone and and such and over the course of time we you know we kind of would get together. They're in there. They're in l.a. Or New York and Eve is living in New York and I was living in the l.a. And and at a certain point we thought well you know what are you 2 bass players do. Together you know musically because you rarely see to be bass players in the same room even and then we decided you know let's try and write some songs together and so we proceeded to do that over a period of about a year and a half I think 2 years and that ended up becoming a record that I produced. That was called Circus money and you. Know with Madeleine Peyroux That's right well we will we after we started writing songs together we discovered that we really loved doing that together and I mean for me it was I can't tell you how fun it was to work with him because for me it was really like getting up in the morning playing tennis with John McEnroe to something you know. You know I really had to do my best just to keep up with his mind he had such a quick Magill mind when it came to songwriting he was just the epitome of finely tuned talent coupled with a beautiful and sarcastic sense of humor for me it was a pleasure to write songs with him so at a certain point when I started working with Madeline. I thought it might be fun for us to try writing something for her saying and so we did. And we proceeded also to write something as with her too as a threesome. From time to time. Came in on things that I was working on that he had. To do. Just because of the just being around him. And we had such a tyrant together and I always came out of any musical experience with him learning something. So he was just a wonderful spirit. I can't say what a great soul he was he's going to be missed by a lot of people. Felt about the Grammy Awards. Seen in many ways I've been to me would myself in Los Angeles and I know you know how. They can they basically jobs can us didn't rush on stage they got their wards and said no it should have been beyond say something. Well you know it was do is exactly the same kind of situation and impact on your mind and then there at that point in the very early days but there was that kind of feeling in the room. Like. These records sold a lot more well that's not what the award is about the artist is an award voted upon by musicians concerning the level of craft in a specific record and. Not that the other records were were not good records I'm sure that they were really well made records as well but. It was a it was a particularly gratifying award for Donald and Walter because of their track record of the work that they had done previous to which which had not been rewarded with that kind of an award. Steely Dan is does and is and most saying that they don't have an audience of cool say so foods he 1000000 albums you did sell that many albums without being extremely popular in your day at least but yes to said instead they are a musician's band in some ways yes because because the level of of craft is so high on all of their albums it's easy to think of them as a musician. Band or that they made music for musicians but in a way when they started out that certainly wasn't the case and I mean it certainly was certainly music this is my opinion anyhow there was certainly music for people of a certain. Sensibility it was it was one of the. Few things that you defined during the seventy's that was an example of a literate pop music pop music that was informed by more sophisticated musical elements and also as far as lyrically that was more challenging and kind of pushing through some of the boundaries of what was conventionally done and pop songs and they certainly forged real new ground with the songs that they wrote I don't think that there was ever that kind of sarcasm or that kind of clever plot development pop song writing before there were you know it was just a great appreciator of music and also incredible incredible. Observer of human behavior and he had a gift for her to sing with the motivation behind people's behavior so quickly and he had such a quick wit when it came to conversation here is just an incredibly incredibly stimulating guy to be around and have the same time I have to say he had a really beautiful heart he's my my son's godfather. Sort of. My estimation of him as a person. Doesn't get any better than. The producer that remembering his friend who has the cd and gets awesome bass player will so Becky let's Concho the headlines stateside now with counties in the USA Today. Well come to just about well it's a free then g. Remember gramophone and just off of the 2 club news if you want to join us I wait. 859 and 69 threes number jackal 080859 or 9693 in the questions we asking tonight is if we open up the floodgates the grama floodgates if we allow anything if we allow this modern sorts of concepts of the English language to exist now will be the consequences of that count in serving good morning good morning how are you I'm very well thanks very much. The president is concentrating on people who might trade with Pyongyang and does his latest responses to the. Expansion of the military threat this coming from North Korea that's right he's threatening to halt trade with China you know which is the biggest trade partner with North Korea that is the kind of a startling saying and the rhetoric is basically heating up after North Korea you know claim that it has for the minutes right hydrogen bomb which is scaring the daylights out of all of us I think that that could be transported on a ballistic missile So things are ratcheting up again Korea is it clear how that would be possible for American to cut trade links with with China given their enormous at the moment other things yeah they're enormous and you know what does that do for American business people trading with China I mean that would be devastating to the American economy as well I would think so this is certainly something everybody is watching right now and his j.j. Watt. J.j. Why is a defensive end for the Houston Texans a n.f.l. Team I don't know how much you all care about the n.f.l. Over there. Do you Ok well I would agree that we know that the New England Patriots win everything super but we know that. One supporter time once opponents saw him it was the his team Cowboys were not anymore of the Dow the Dow 1000 Cowboys Well mistake anybody can buy it isn't. So anyways a.j. What works is is for the Houston Texans and he has always been somebody who would like him peeps is in a crisis or do things like that but he decided when when Hurricane Harvey Houston and he would raise just some money you know and start start seeing what he would do to help so we just did on a very simple you caring dot com was just a very simple crowdsourcing kind of thing he made a $1100000.00 donation and he set a goal of raising $200000.00 so he was just asking people to match the money well guess what he's up to $18000000.00 Now while and is just a phenomenal story about how people responded to him and how people in his home state of Wisconsin sent all the stuff to to him and the people of Houston a huge 10 semi trailer trucks arrived Saturday night there. That a warehouse induced insanity of certain or really really great humanitarian story everything out there was is well off to Katrina was there but how do you explain this one this is the response the Americans have had. Of the sorry came in Texas. And I just a tremendous outpouring and it happened right away I mean people I think learned much from from Katrina that you know delay which are disastrous. Thanks very much County in there from USA Today So 590693. From Monday morning remember question what the consequence is opening up the floodgates of English grammar anything goes you know I mean. This is. This is the top story this Korea tested so missiles in response to the north nuclear bomb test and in sport Lewis Hamilton takes the advantage in the race for the Formula One title. Is Lisa McCormick u.s. Defense secretary has warned North Korea that any threat to America will be met with a massive military response James Mattis is responding to claim that it successfully tested a hydrogen bomb that can be loaded onto a long range missile. Is a former deputy CIA division chief of Korea it's significant that matters is comments are in the context of a response to a North Korean attack whereas earlier this year there was the concern that the president seemed to be suggesting even if we didn't feel we were about to be attacked the u.s. May do a preventative attack I think matters his comments although they sound very dire really just long standing u.s. Policy South Korea says it's carried out a ballistic missile exercise. Eyes in response to the North's nuclear test a 7 hour standoff between inmates and staff a Burman in prison has come to an end trouble broke out after some prisoners refused to return to the cells yesterday evening last December hundreds of prisoners were involved in riots at the jail. A study suggests 110th of 50 year old men have a hard age of 10 years old or Public Health England says it puts them at increased risk of heart attack or stroke the chief negotiator says he wants to educate the u.k. About the price it has to pay for leaving the union job on the I doesn't think the consequences of Bracks have been explained properly to the British people Roxanne Secretary David Davis has accused him of trying to put pressure on the u.k. To pay a huge financial settlement thought of it Turia honeymoons a lecturer in British politics at Leeds University was to call up the press in order to try to get the or perhaps David Davies clearly want to pay the minimum amount of money out to the idea of attracting to suggest that the e.u. And badly are claiming or pressurising. That would be utilised in order to try apply pressure to the Goetia to take I don't think they will be successful the governor of Texas Greg Abbott says the clean up bill following tropical storm Harvey could be as high as $180000000000.00 because very operations are underway across Texas and in neighboring Louisiana volunteers at a charge in Houston to hand the night clothes and supplies to those affected and Chapman's homes flooded my house is taken from the front to back and in our my Camus's Mr and we have ran out of. Red Nelson to. Columns and stuff like this is material things but we are dealing with Donal's is facing its 1st u.k. Strike a stab at 2 restaurants have walked out of the dispute over 0 hours contracts why is it Cambridge and Crayford began the 24 hour strike at midnight and tributes are being paid to the Co-Founder Steve Walter Baca he's died at the age of $67.00 is a Grammy award winning record producer Larry Klein he was such a credibly smart guy a great songwriter someone who would just really really thought about how great songs are constructed and how to do. It really was one of my therapy. Own the world and I'm just pretty much started on to the sport and we can cross live to Flushing Meadows for an update in the u.s. Open his g.t. Salmon with a big hitting contest between the big 7 Richard the big hitting upbeat everything is getting to the business end of the 1st set we played 14 minutes it's a full game Zola was a break from a group 3 in the 4th picture to then held 3 breakpoints to keep herself just one great behind while she broke back now looked at 4 games or not let's choose between these 2 being watched by 23000 people now he with the rest of the sports news if he wasn't picked Lewis Hamilton has taken the lead at the Formula One drivers championship for the 1st time this season after a victory at the Italian grown Prix Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel was 3rd in this 3 points behind how Milton with 7 races to go both got their 1st win away unless the Tigers for 14 years they play the closing stages with just 13 men but held on to take it 2723 teams guys Chris Froome increased his overall lead leave a well to Espana to 61 seconds after the 15th stage and Belgium of the 1st European team to qualify for next year's football World Cup Romelu Lukaku scored the winner in their 21 victory over Greece this is b.b.c. 5 Live on to just hold on to the smartphone and tablet for a 2nd look at Monday's weather then a damp start to the day if you're in the site though you'll see some bright spells and it'll favor warm across the north wet and windy every ties across the cabin 1970 s. Slice the West Indies a little in the series against England after a fantastic back to display on the final day ahead of the Jones It was the winning it's. Coming victory it seems trouble for the home of cricket for the decide on this involved. Recall of the 1st test flight from the old switch to Test Match Special team featuring for the for the last time the legendary every drug dealer. It was over the baseball for fun stuff 1st day morning at $1025.00. Extra. This is a put out of 5 live on Dawson added buying coming up in this out Monday morning gramophone and how every you can join us the number to call is 008-085-9096 extension 93 that's o.e. 808599693 the question we're asking is simply this if we were to open up the floodgates of grammar and language one of the most observed outcomes and consequences of that what would they be do you have an example of it observed outcome if we were to allow everything in the language if there were no holds barred if all things were part of the language any permutations of any bad spellings or bad poem back punctuation or what everybody what the consequence is all this in our language is what we're asking this morning have you join his 080859 or 993 pick of and gives a call as to what saw grim Ariens is ever never goodness with us all 3 have been grammar and greens lats and Terry man behind the new Partridge dictionary of saying on convention English and some other book is coming out. Oh not just some other book a huge new book or dictionary of rhyming slang save up and celebrate and how much does that dictionary cost novel Well I mean I don't try to get her 365. For the price so much to me at $365.00 how much $365.00. Place I could get you I think if I disclosed and 200000 you had a picture and I we got it we got to gave you up to. Your you know I need the royalties you know how this will go down as. Well. Never to say 365 you said you think you'll find it's 185 how do you justify its legal How can you justify anything 20 quid for a book so if I don't like a penny stock they spend I think it gave me a very good it was the libraries in Europe does it not have you heard of glaziers Well have you heard of Dick Turpin Dick Turpin Yes he wrote from London to you yeah and he was what was his occupation again Oh I think he was a liberator of functions you know very outside of weight and I highwaymen Yeah I way robbery I think that was is just the songs you know well why don't you talk sense of course I talk said that you have said I have been chilled by the best yourself and Terry said I would all look a little bit of sense by that now what about this subject what about this subject Ok let's get down to this subject particularly. If we open up the floodgates what with the dire consequences be Neville. Well the sort of front gate that I'm shuttering at the thought of is harmonizing Spelling said that France is poor Good points of a cup of tea p.w.r. So I. P o you are poor or poor person poor things you've got in your skin and poor What a dog sort of waves its weight it always felt the same way and you would not know where you were and what said standardise Asians but he would meet and it would be a disaster and I am fighting to keep this wonderful wonderful language that we need and heritage as it is and Terry he has a point does the standard I was Asian of spelling in that respect would lead to all sorts of dire consequences we wouldn't know whether you were short of cash as m.p.w. Or whether you were about to throw something on us as m.p.r. You or whether you are whole Your skin is simply. So or what a dog has deadly I don't know what does dog have again but he has a poor oh yeah exactly that's another thing people we already live with the situation when if you think you're going to pour over an argument which is not the same way as it is with skin but it doesn't matter when is when you're not spelling it when you're just saying it makes sense the space is spending is only a construct to try to help us speak clearly or to try to record what we're saying Well you're right we see what we write with but the writing doesn't exist until the word is spoken but it does then the writing does exist all important how you preserve the word. Yes Don't you agree but I mean to dream what you to a degree because you've got more than one sense of the work force not you know already therefore we're already not achieving what you're trying to achieve. Wow Didn't a 2nd hold on a 2nd look one of my colleagues dare I say today wrote a note to me where they meant to say if it wasn't is in a very q. Into nods and to an interview where they meant to say lives as in l s e but now they spell it like love people just seen this a lot l. Double s. a Leafs. Even the same pronunciation when you speak it is loose and loose and yet the spelling is interchangeable for a lot of people out of laziness now today now as as it wasn't in and mash of life and death but you could imagine how loose and loose could be mistaken for one another and have dire consequences as a result you know somebody who lives says something is very different from somebody who has loosed something oh now we're playing games yeah or if you're feeling loose you're looking for Louis. Was he trying to be clever never was was to try to be clever with us but I guess we should be humble I think we should just hang on to what we've got Dalton I've and was lucky. And was I am sisters and I think we should look after the future generations by holding what we thought and not letting it be messed around with any problem is from what Terry's saying it doesn't matter because we get the meaning nevertheless Eve I got the meaning of this phone call this poor spreading this into changeable sense of losing lose our Got the meaning straight away so it was lost it's not like a dire consequence I'm looking for dire consequences examples of dire consequences if you give me one please give me clearly it's not a question that it's about respect you know we are lucky lucky people and we should . It's also in the tiniest detail I just give you an example of how that goes without saying a lot of that goes without saying Remember we're talking about opening up the floodgates now and it goes without saying that we're lucky lucky people to have the greatest language in the world that goes around saying We're now opening up the fog gates were going to be the cause or does it make any difference whether we're lucky lucky lucky lucky lucky lucky lucky you know light lucky lucky lucky Jim The fact is all called him Lucky Jamie had to go from Monday Tuesday Wednesday every day of the week does it matter well that's a relief I thought you were going to do Kylie for a moment. To do that sort of. Does it really that I'm not suffering I'm suffering you de Soleil I mean I can't give you a particular cause but what I do know is if you don't hang on to something good you know that you're going to have something good at the end of the day you're going to lose this precious precious is what we think with what we communicate with we didn't want to mess around we're not that clever we can say should also know where I pay where we're having will abandon the rules and be kept the centrist and we went in and we are we know this. Language And if we spend all that time looking backwards we start looking forwards we have not built this land if we have inherited this all we've done with not. This race this island race the goal of the people who are part of it have built this language by accident it's not just irritants we have it's good I mean this it don't structure isn't it is the language has we have inherited it is much the same as it was shake this time fight and he has a look at insects this time well we have got it and we know you haven't had as I've hunted Yes all the amazed fabulous language leave it at that Terry Gale How do you have friends or how about this from Jarvis in Lady Bay He says when people say you know what I mean after every sentence. There is you mean that I'm telepathic or a mind reader you know what I mean and I know you've already made the state statement that they're referring to bad yet they just get chittering they are bringing you have got to start thinking straight and communicating something useful should we be doing is they've said something and then is saying you know what I mean yeah but I just discovered that they're not thinking when they say that but let's not they're not actually thinking the way they do you know what I mean or you know I don't know what your values just you know just give it you that you should not take things literally Terry when we spoke when we used on which you would not take things literally when we speak we take them you know somewhat you know but what about literature literal. Not impoverish the language when it will be when or when somebody says well when I look the reason why it's the reason why it's a nonsense what you're saying with all due respect is you saying they've already said the statement says the you know what I mean is slightly redundant However if you yeah but however it demands a response you can't just sit there and. Not say anything when somebody says you know I mean even though it's redundant you have to say yeah yeah yeah I know you mean whereas actually this statement might just be the sun is yellow which doesn't demand a response when nobody's argued with that the sun is shining Ok the sun is shining we're not we don't doesn't demand respond but the fact they say the sun is shining you know I mean he said Yeah I know what you mean it makes you as foolish as they were for asking whether you know what they mean by the sun is shining on this that picture is this Xpress in some surprise at the weather and genuinely sort of implying that there is more to the statement that the sun is shining. Marina Marina Good morning Justin and Nestle and the other the other Black Yeah I think you. Really were quoting him this morning about. You know nice it. Terry Terry Yeah I think that's. Ok he's had a good night. You haven't read it was saying this enough to reasonably well I don't have any old pop records so I did a little. Boy on the motorbike Well it's not all that lovely else really but the girl is one of time records isn't it. By twinkle so you know what you're going to like you don't you think it Marina I think I think it was something he wrote into the dock at the right time to well you know then I that's. The leader of the pack but. It's a pretty good I should all thing I'm sure. To. Do they just don't there is a lovely song Marina as well oh yes yes the marina Ok Is there one you will never never. Last night and I don't know about Dalton you disowned you don't you and I are all twins we are deprived you know that's what you get in shape music you. Don't. Have that thank you very so the reason that what about as if I was going up the flood gates in the language Well I think I'm poor punctuation. Thanks Dan. If you're saying boys toys you might want to know exactly how many boys you would be eating with your banked Christmas present but yes it depending on where you put the apostrophe yes to post it to the post of the cat comes before it for the s. And boy then you know just one well you'll have to buy a 24 you're absolutely right if it comes up to the edge you know there's more than one boy you have to point by choice for me no no you're absolutely right you're absolutely right what about that sorry could you need an article before going to try to send the sentence sorry you need to not screw anything up and he's always told he's all the boys told me you can eat an article to make sense of this and yes and that Hofstra free Oh absolutely not one is this thanks I'm not arguing that we should never have gone if you if it's written down. If it's written down you don't need the definite article we can say no you don't because it says boys toys be apostrophes as toys so we know it's a boy already the definite article is almost redundant isn't it no because you're not point unless you're just heading up a shopping list the definite article you know the indefinite article that I was always taught if I was you got a boy boy yes it might be a boy called boy with a cousin but the dog could be called Boy so it could be a Don't story for a while but the point was if the poster for it was off to the yes boys it was posed if the but if. You caught me you got me now the voice of the now the boy schoolboy. People say respectful to the reader may just made a perfectly good point and I think we should have more respect go with the perfectly good point that she's going to have interest in a doubt about it if you're writing shorthand you can say I don't voice the. Posture after and there is a difference in meaning between the 2. If you're right issue trying you're really only doing it your own benefit so it doesn't make a lot of difference that you can communicate. But you boys toys could be a title something like that. Of a book you know I know yeah. That Marina's got a perfectly good point I'm not going to have a rubbish like this marine I'm going to. Take a marina seriously but it's a day to day I'll be beastly to Marina Marina you need looking after. Reading you see when never loses an argument he starts flirting. Why does why yes you have said so oh. I said. Already you know I may still. You know. You can do but if you're going to talk shop you saw the sign boys' toys would you expect to see an apostrophe anywhere in that sentence or in that case you know you would want to know not particularly Photoshop Yes yes you would actually I like this he looks like why he's got the punctuation I like the. I do you know he did the thing that I think is intolerable what you I'm going to stick up for each other. Yeah just make a good point and I want to just graciously accept me just point you made a made one to good point read your book you know like you're eating how many boys should be eating with you but that was the regular combo you remember early Yeah Ok during the things that move a little kid that inmates appreciate the court as well 59 and 9 Suzanne 3 is numbers Djimon Sandgate makes a very put you know he says it's about time some words in our language especially ones which sound the same but are spelled differently we've talked about that were reviewed English is generally accepted as the international I see language with voice activation used more and more we cannot have several meanings and spellings of words which sound the same. And that is for obvious reasons with i.t. For example what do you think of that level what I think that is the wonderful language against the cause of the way it is and we should pay the respect and say we actually gain a better than our ancestors impulse you cannot blow readies has not our ancestors knew nothing about our duty prime the gym is making hair is the circumstances technology have forced a use of language that technology can no longer cope with so he is not saying you know less tear down what our ancestors have done the great recession we need to review it's important that the reason why residual language in context of the modern challenges to the and the reason why it's right before you say the reason why it's wrong with all due respect never the reason why it's right is because at the moment English is international language of i.t. But if it can't cope if the i.t. Cobe with the proclivities of the English language or the lack of. Differentiation within the language then it will find some other language words and suddenly will be relegated we will not really hated it when the little bit arms are gone the reason it will not use the k i t language. Well it has become that it is actually the place to become the i t Lang we hang on to it because we know it's a great great length we don't you think we don't want to be the i.t. Language in a decade or 2 decades and it's more likely if you hang on to it you're more like the language if you gauge it's 'd more likely not to be the artsy language of the future if we hang on to it as a historical document rather than moving with the development of of technology is. No language to be in s. Because in that I mean disagreement with this is you know who I think Terry i.e. To a disagreement with Kerry now I find myself with this and you never know that we may disagree very very quickly. I know exactly what you're saying and it's the evolution of language i-t. Is the next stage of spoken id is the next stage of the development in the language and it won't have an effect you know mamma phones are difficult when you're speaking but you know they're equally Dabney deal with accents and dialects My only worry is we're discussing releasing the floodgates of grammar and we've instantly come to a form of censorship where we're saying let's reduce the language rather than let it go through. Really not said that well if you're saying we can't have all these problems you've got to get rid of some of the what Jimmy said say we need to review the language you never say get rid of everything but we don't review it like always you do is allow the language to develop these go you know we review the language in context of the usage of the language how we use language and sometimes as has been reviewed within a post of yes as you know that people say well do we really need it now list we use it and the language has been reviewed over the centuries but then look at this no official change. The show that you just gave should not most Peggy just thought for a moment because. Richard in Essex we wait impatiently Richard good morning good morning I don't think about you know. Ok my point you know if you get rid of all the rules of grammar for example grammar act grammar and the correct use of language x. In the same way that the green belt does this country can a country planning it puts a price. On something that you might not see straightaway going into decline when it goes into long term decline for example if you look at America where they are not green belt they have sprawling cities and I found languages and that's just brought any kind of constraint show you that's the whole point. There to you know to translate the spoken word into the written word in a way that you can understand it you don't want the feeling around when you read a book thinking we're doing talks post scheme post pour out or whatever you need to know instantly and you know the reason we have those words and the reason we have the spellings. It's like the office and your point of. Going say is oh it has been my to understand you know. Just what a very steep hill. You know but. For example if you taught things into a computer can understand grandma in the same why it should be I would teach a computer to understand the context of sighing For example she talk about a dog's poll if you're saying adults and then pull it once but it paid double a lot. You could say chicken pizza that sure sure can't recognize different contexts it would surely Richard remember your analogy of the dream bell as you probably know the issues rather greed been with us for 50 years and more and more in some places. The protection that the Greenbelt was offered is now under serious consideration by a lot of town planners and by the governments as well bearish like yes yes all over the place not just in the Southeast around London you know 50 years from now how much of that green belt will be in place I'm not saying a lot Yeah exactly right because because things have changed because things have changed because it's learned and not well not preserving our inherited not nice not that is because things have changed things have changed almost Things might change but if you look in America for example you know or are you saying about sort of that green belt but if you take the example of going to the reason for example in America people. Are allowed to constantly sprawl Ensign you know from cities everybody is searching for a place to live in the countryside and that happened before the war where people constantly build guys I want to live on a joint on each and every snow it's the age you become subsumed in your home and that's what happened that's what I probably can't know saying it's good I'm not saying it's good and people will still be able to live in the countryside but I'm saying that just has the green belt as it stands today I'm sorry never not I didn't mean to be rude see that you're right it may also be because we're not preserving our heritage that might be part of it as well but what from a review of that green bell is the change in demographics essentially that's what prompts a there might be other reasons as well you know farmers might want to become 1000000000 is and then they become M.P.'s so they can push it through I don't doubt that all of those things might be part of the conundrum However what prompts it from a national. Eval is a changing demographics and I'm saying what programs a review of the language is again some kind of development of the needs of the language in a future world I mean we're talking about a world where. In the end office time we might see. Driverless trucks up and down our streets that's the reality things which are you saying for us if there's a language that is needed just like the binary language of computing if the math in that matches can't cope with it then you find another way. If I don't disagree with you know again they will have to pursue this one we will look at will presumably the richer things let's recall 5963 Remember I'm not giving my opinion I'm just trying to for the conversation between you and Terry forward never you know what my position is I'm just saying realistically though if that you know you know if you'll acknowledge current meet the challenges this is really what is it the languages can if the language can't meet the challenges that it's faced with from the people that speak the language then the language is going to change I don't know I'm saying you can meet the Chinese in the fundamental difference between us you also. Jolly well can and it has up till now and hang on to it that is actually the fault line is that I will come back to Terry's response to that a moment but 1st let's get the latest 5 Live headlines now with Lisa McCormick. My feeling for anyone this is b.b.c. 5 Live Free is carried out a ballistic missile exercise in response to the all sneakier bomb tests there's been international condemnation of paan yang in the u.s. Says it will retaliate with massive military force if the regime threatens America or its allies backs it Secretary David Davis will face questions in the Commons this week as M.P.'s return to Parliament following the summer recess European Union withdrawal bill is due to be debated on Thursday. A 7 hour standoff between mates and staff of Birmingham prison has come to an end trouble broke out after some prisoners refused to return to their cells yesterday evening and a special edition the Star Wars stamps are being released to mark the latest movie in the series Well Mel says they'll feature new and classic characters alongside spaceships and specially created scenes let's get an update from the us open I live at Flushing Meadows here is Gigi salmon. Former Wimbledon champion Petrovich was from 14 down to take the 1st set 76 on a time break one on 4 minutes against the current Wimbledon champion copy Muga ruther it was clear to have the Atlantic you were serving for the set in the 12th game but she was broke it took them to the tiebreaker that she dominated by Stephanie points to for some promotion it's in for both and this match is nipping up to its billing its next level contest this critter who has the 1st set nearly today been 20 years with reach the quarter finals but Maria sharp move us toward him it is over now happy with the rest Today Sports News is here to say he's Lewis Hamilton has taken the lead of the Formula One drivers championship for the 1st time this season after victory at the Italian Grand Prix Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel is 3 points behind the Briton with 7 races to go there's obviously some races to go there's so much that can happen but the whole year he's been up ahead $25.00 points or whatever it may be and then you know comes down and it goes back up come down so it's a funny it's you know to overhaul it and the plan is to not have it go the other way again and came home have his teammate Valtteri Bottas with Vettel in 3rd at Monza all of the views in reaction are available on the checkered flag podcast from the 5 Live websites where bass players got a long awaited win in rugby union's Premiership. Have a good one 0 well the road for those times since 2003 they were reduced to 13 men who want to finish yes by holding on for a 2723. When despite late pressure from Leicester Tigers it means 50 tries were scored in the opening weekend of the Premiership season. Legend Ian Wright has responded strongly to midfielder Mesut Ozil calling his criticism of media pundits laughable writes words came after the German international whose into the final year of his deal at the Emirates some x. Players to stop talking and start supporting I'd love to see them instead of coming I want to go with the so-called former players we're not talking about former President sizing a team that's charging up the League and winning league just we won the f.a. Cup but we're talking about a team that's on the performing and not just the team the people in the boardroom the manager decisions everybody you can hear more of Wright's view on the 606 podcast it's available on our website or your preferred polka supplier team's guys Chris Froome increased his overall lead of the world to a Spaniard he finished 5th on stage 15 to stretch his advantage over in tens or nearly to 61 seconds in the Super League qualifiers there were wins for witness Catalan Dragons and whole k.-r. And rearward in pick bronze medalist Ed Lang won the traps over the world shotgun Championships in Moscow on b.b.c. One. Relationships that it. Sure seems that you can use shot it. This is a fix to stick with us this is the. 24 hours who shouted the square. Eastenders starts tonight is. The one this is b.b.c. 5 Live available on the b.b.c. I Player great. Night with Dawson at a boy. This is a fascinating conversation this morning you know absolute fast I was looking at some of these texts and e-mails are coming I'm going to read the random over towards 808-085-9096 extension 93 that's our number this when he tried to join this conversation we're asking you about the rules of grammar generally Monday morning gramaphone we've been here before as you know this really we're asking you simply to join us and tell us if we have productive floodgate and allowed everything into the language what might be some of the consequences as a result of that they would have to India 85909693 Give us some examples please you some examples as ever God remains of us never going and Terry Victor and I will come back to Terry's response to never in just a moment remember what Neville said a moment or 2 ago Terry was that the language can cope can cope with any challenges Brian in Edinburgh says your guest is quite right about the need for us to cherish and embrace the mechanics of the English language because sick in it try and therefore it the Perry fresh stick cycle of oratorical circle flexion by the way made what is that what was he talking about was the Perry 1st exotic cool oratorical so complex and never can you. Just get up and use. It well because you're using deliberately archaic words which are much more you also Richard. You know that story called will lead you towards speech the other 2 I'm not sure about. In it which is kind of straight more yes I do know it's going to ring in and tell us Ok You know I never seem See this is from Barbara in Norfolk never will seems to be suggesting that our language be frozen. Had been frozen before William Shakespeare it would be much the poor spell p w. And in parentheses. Question mark. Says he would you prefer that never I appreciate I'm going to get. At is more Mr very Esquire he puts in parenthesis in case you did in the midst of it says precious though the English language may be if it didn't evolve we would still all be saying forsooth me thinks I'll be bound Dost thou know what I mean I think that's you know I think we've actually lost a bit by leaving those terms unfortunate in the language as place like the degenerate instance. But let's hang on to what we thought so because it's still pretty good so that I noticed what Mr Viv means to. Think what about I'd marry. That that allows you to distinguish between the singular and the poor when you know you did it whether your point to one person or to this is the way I'm sure of that we all take joy when you read it with you I'm sorry I didn't have a languages as well you know I do know the language you know have lost that I have anything let's get back to Shakespeare Oh we could go the America way and say y'all Yeah yeah yeah yeah like you plural and I think the American way don't never ever ever I'm sure there's some good things about America I'll take a ready for the folks. Every kid says how could anyone see language without the rules of grammar that's used Terry how could anyone see language you expect us to buy your inflate valued book. If you know my music you know to me if you haven't seen the real cost that's not you know it's worth the money yeah right quick. Quick quick I know badly but I can't I'm going to get up and told by the way it's not the book it's a dictionary of running So what's left saying whatever is this is the true fair enough problem you say how can you explain to supply that without the rules of grammar rules of grammar I don't argue against the rules we need some set of rules otherwise we never would understand us and you know what you think it would be better for about 10 you know I've never argued against the general rules of grammar I don't argue against this this hype around approach to where I'm going I believe we us kids you look most of the rules of grammar without knowing what the words actually are that you can find. Almost almost instantly you know how to construct a sentence you learned the. Evil Dead Can you or that you take a stand not so that if you really want a 2nd of all you're interrupting I only ask because you often complain and you don't always spot mistakes when they come along I'm just dismissed as if the squire that just came out I mean instantly occurs to me if we're using grammar carets we don't need to list because the Esquire describes a man I say can we really look at have one or the other but not they Let's have. The other but not say Ok let's have Edward in Manchester you want all the other or both root. Well. Wolf as well on to say that the floodgates are open plated for gates are open are there any stray restrictions on a. Change to language are there any restrictions on. New as and phrases coming into the language so I was talking about closing the sagas when they're clearly open there aren't any restrictions because my English is such a rich language that assignment so many ample it's from Simon is the possible world . Partly because of Britain's history the history the language will so the history of Britain imperialism the sound the same an impulse that's all makes it a rich language. Of course we want to preserve as novel those will preserve the fine language but it should also be mindful of the fight that the quickness of the English language allows us to put other people down if they don't keep up with it to its use as a way of social and even ethnic division we use it as a putdown. Therefore there is a case to regularize a English not standardizing but regularizing. Of course we want to keep the distinctions. Pull and pull and so on although I think even that can be exaggerated because context often defeats the same way when a West Indian talks about the last Test match result being wicked we know exactly what it means is the context it determines it so I think that's exaggerated anyway yeah we do want preserving the Chicago city but be aware that it's used by snobs to put other people down if they can keep it I mean I'm unconscious of the self example of this. Does. Benefit fit to fit and to benefit now we know those words we know what I mean but we will of course I've got different past tense aside the past census it's as though to chase the past process about if Israel wants a. No to be regularized because it's a catch as a way that we can cash out people who we can use it to put them down just as Victorian. Cultures punish. Dropping h's or pushing ages in shouldn't they use it as a way of indicating ignorant people they thought of as ignorant people. And I just think you ought to be aware of that English can be used as a form of economic social division and as I say even I think vision because of the service of other cultures it can be used to put people down. And that's. Been very eloquent in your emphasis of it and what I love about this one and it was soft spoken about language but as we heard from Richard in essence before the t. 30 nis as we heard from you there is there was a context to it a much more socially defining context to. Talk about language or was a social context and it was about language and when you say the floodgates are open I wonder if Devin agrees that the floodgates of a Will radio and whatever restrictions are normal Well the thing is we have not got the French you've got another country got the equivalent of the I had to be Francaise exactly for this but well he would need to do you not only have we don't have any 1st case but we have got rules even say we should be perceptible not analogous and I gotta say. A nice chap but he is a liberal and if you go along he's really there is actually no stopping the fun you've got you've got hog on 3 and a. New word when you come. To read computer but make a dent in any other changes if you can help it. Well I think I think I agree with you want to preserve a sign language. Will. Significantly but maybe to say that you know you then and I think we're going to let things get and that's the way I do not know what you've got every single detail. But I don't want of I'm not pulling this issue as a means of division and I'm saying that when I was young everybody at every school used to learn language the way it was and there was no division whatever getting it right was considered to be the right thing to do no matter what station monoculture of English people. There was a different time a different age different different emphasis it was a mentoring and so I'm saying this developing in a completely different way and I'm not saying it's developing I'm taking in the shoes deteriorating it when I was a scholar is not a proof I'm saying this is the difference between as Edward I'm saying it is deteriorating because the rules of you have been Everybody used to. Force your rules. But you're not able to force your will it's because they think they used to be and for that they used to be in close what Michael socially everyone at any social level when they went to school they love the same language according to the same group and they will speak their local language it says that the feeling that. That was time where we had a monoculture but we turned have. You noticed I think we should hang on to what we used to have when it jolly well wouldn't I think of working as well as they used to do the communication is not at work in the morning I think they're working fine English is used more and more every day. More a most successful every day is a wonderful language we don't value it undersize a normal people as a touch socially that's what counts. You know the people used to use it far more people used to need it today used to be used in about a quarter of a blown night now he uses a bit of the 2nd language in more than that but it was doing fine but what I can tell you is it is not actually being spoken or written as well as it used by as many people and I've actually seen the deterioration and I mean deterioration. Ok And thank you for the core of fascinating conversation Edward thank you very much and well done for holding your ground as well by the way and we'll come back to this in a minute because it seems from what Edward saying and from how they never disagreed that the trial goes may be open but which direction of a phone is really the issue will find out in a moment Elise will get thoughts on that in just a moment but 1st has returned to Flushing Meadows again object on the u.s. Open where Gigi salmon is watching proceedings for us what's going on there now and she's gotten its incredible story the hypothetical it's because 8 months after knife attack the ended her career and still without feeling until I think is correct that playing Has she is now came to a place you're safe for example the sport where else is it 2015 she's up against a lady who's looking to be world number one at the end of these 2 weeks holds the Wimbledon crowd at the moment but look Aretha is being too inconsistent and Petrovich about doesn't only like playing at the u.s. Open but so far she's been consistent she's hitting well and she's serving big and she leads Guppy to make everything by a set and a break 31 and that is quite a remarkable story we'll come back to that later on we will definitely I think during the course of this program get an update and get the results of that before we leave proceedings tonight thanks Gigi pretty sure that. Even quite quiet Terry Victor fessing conversation it with Edward in Manchester there the floodgates are open which direction is it going in Ed would seem to think it was going in a positive way and you never will says it's going in a negative way well I can't quite because it was arguing my corner really eloquently and well he pretty much agreed with every single word he said I think since when we got to regularize in the language where I did have a slight issue. Because we already do regularize in as far as we have things like political correctness and so forth and they are the areas where we need just sort of be cautious arguably that is ad hoc regularizing whereas I think it was talking about a formal regularizing. I want to do it in Europe in front there's an institution regular that you know we know we understand so you're not sure it would was talking about a formal regularizing you know I think he was doing it as as specifically required regularizing for instance using language to bully which was the color of his 2nd point yeah but I think it's right but today that but you do that I mean using language to bully is something that people may or may not do at home yeah and I'm saying that you How can you stop that if if that if bullying exists and language is a weapon of bullies then I'm going to give it up just because there is some kind of except as you look at what you said about political correctness where people use it you know you find somebody like Jeremy Clarkson for instance using what he understands to be political correctness and being politically incorrect in the use of language for example Him I mean just give him as an example one example Brother people are out there is well and you can't force a change in that because of the many people say you know I'm not going to I'm not going to use the right word for somebody who is gay for example another use that I'm going to use them you know much more pejorative or whatever it might be and even if you do the tone of voice can argue against using whichever language you use Yeah you can see them by listening to your dog in a lovely voice you know to Mr Indeed indeed so that's why I thought the ad was argued for much more formal rather than informal regularizing how can we regular eyes something informally. I mean it's just by consensus by democratic consensus How do you get that with anguish there's no democratic and what we do know around certain words you know across a band of language I don't know if you even between 2 words the way you never will argue. Displays the fact that language there is no consensus generally around language except a lot of things but you never know when a dispute is coming around the corner Well yes you're absolutely sure that it isn't an easy example I looked this up while we were talking around the scientific English the computer English we've adopted the American version of Trillian because it suits computers so you know and 1000000000 for that matter Yeah we changed our definitions they're all because it makes sense in a computer world to have a standardized setting so the computers have led the charge and they're going to lot of people very confused as to whether for instance really means a WWW or do you really exactly. Terrify visceral 1000000000 Once upon a time a 1000000000 meant for us a WW didn't it yes and that means a 1000001000 years need that we've been corrupted by and they're going to do it with computers which you know we don't think about like that reverenced a sad it may be sad but I'm just saying that while this is the way it's gone remember I was saying earlier about how the language is forced to move technology or else become irrelevant. They're doing a forcing that was just lovely and it's not anybody I don't know still a lot of not scheduling is. Going to show you. I have grew up believing that opinion was a WW I generally did and I have to try to sort of get my head around when people are billionaires who by billionaires I had to concede it's now a 1000000000 and we need a good he'd been corrupted by America well no I have the great thing about America but I've been corrupted if I've been corrupted by a general consensus which is more powerful than a WW Look we may have ruled the waves once upon a time but we can't necessarily rule even our language and there are influences on our language from all sorts of places we have to go in we'll try to preserve what we can to try as much as we like it waste our time trying still trying trying to tell you well I'm wasting might not like you know they deny it but you're going to spend the rest of your life trying to convince the world that a 1000000000 is a WW when what does it matter. Because you actually do need math you need. A you got to fight off a message that really doesn't matter because you actually need it where it doesn't matter it's kind of easy to say the greatest philosopher I've ever had the privilege of sitting in a class with was the late Dr Frank Chafee whose greatest work was proving that Freud was a liar and of course the Freud's Freud Ians disputed his assertion that Freud was a liar and so he was going he was alive but her going 2nd hand going to say but that's open to interpretation let me just finish the antidote play he just did no no the point is it's not about whether Freud was a liar or not I'm talking about Frank Jeffy So you are more concerned about this brilliant mind about the rest of his career I'll give forwards and backwards with Freud is as to whether Freud was a liar or not this man could have been one of the greatest philosopher of philosophers of our time sadly he's remembered for his work proving on whether or not Freud was a liar and I'm sorry I knew the guy he was might choose her and the right side of this chart now I'm not old enough to have seen. This chat every was limited because there's a spring in marking coaches there were I went to university by the way Mark coaches the Professor French off the talks as well Hi there yeah. It crystallized for me when I was listening to a sportsperson report diopter nice ferrous performance in the European Athletics Championships and a lot of examples it and I wise very pleasant b.b.c. Reporter said we were also take spec thing that from life I was way. That wasn't me was it. And I think. Surely that the way wasn't as bad as was it it was it was then I was frantic and raving about this to my son on the side and he said well what does it matter you know what she meant. And I thought it was somebody I didn't know what's happening to doesn't actually matter it was issued a few. Why am I getting so cross when people say he was stood on the boundary Why do I say it's the television did you actually pick him up and placed him there I don't think he was stood on the boundary I think he was standing on the boundary and I get very upset about this kind of thing but I did talk to myself does it actually really matter what I think it does because I think it's a difference between full English and social being you know I was an English take for many years and I wouldn't correct that the children while when they spoke I mean to say spoke and I said I'll. Use wasn't in that way informally I wouldn't correct them as pets but things States and I've done 50 years ago but if they move Rice saying or if they were presenting a speech then I would correct them because they would be using formally and I think there is something very beautiful about formal English and there's also something very lively about social being place and accent and different ways of using language and I think it's good to keep both so I would hate to see that formal English disappear into a sort into socially in the same way as it would be a pity to make everybody speak in the same way that's a very 1st comment and certainly this more please what about Neville there are currents of English is what Mark is saying they're both valid and they both add to the vibrancy if you like of a language and the point is that there are there's one kind of English is what you might call should correct English and then the other kind to bury according to where you live your social station on day one you should keep the standard English as the basic And then by all means in the privacy of your Hey we're all a couple speak whatever English you like that that that is not an argument against keeping the basic language as it is and as it has been for several 100 years you did so in your local covered. Well you know your locality. For a moment I thought whoa. My point with Mark is that or with lots and lots of. Speed a standard the Queen's ignition and. Which everybody used to learn at school no matter where they were at school no matter what their social level of time they are a change in the times they are trying not to say I'm not disagreeing with I mean I think I said I think there is a beauty about formal English I would like for missing English to continue to be taught but I would not do what I wished to dismiss our ways of speaking or other ways of communicating. You know. At all stupidly it's because there are different ways of communicating which are actually very interesting but I do you think as a general communication level for example on t.v. Perhaps some broadcasting a standard kind of reporting so I do find the degenerate to deep generation of English in that sense I read a bit depressing because like I do think that there is a beauty about that sort of formal English that I wouldn't like to lose that. Can I enjoy. It I think along quite emphasizing is it everybody ought to know the formal language as one of their languages even if they speak a different language in different settings and that they should be a unified basic language which everybody knows and everybody used to the point of formal and informal It's like formal dress and casual dress is that you can have both you can have both and there's some certain sauces where you love the formal some circumstances where you have the casual and some circumstances where you mix and match around this voting to go 59 and 693. Anyone else this is. 3 This is a fortnight on 5 Dawson. By the way news on 5 Live South Korea test its own missiles in response to the North's nuclear bomb test and in sport Lewis Hamilton takes the advantage in the race for the Formula One title. Is b.b.c. 5 live with. Us South Korea says its military has carried out a missile training drill in response to North Korea's nuclear test it follows a warning from u.s. Defense Secretary James Mattis that Pyongyang will be met with massive military force if it threatens America or its allies Professor Hazel Smith is from London University School of Oriental and African Studies Kim Jong un was to $400.00 plus tomorrow we wouldn't see the problems go away that we have so we have to think what are we doing in terms of relationship with this state and what does the state do and what are people in charge and state in the face of the sanctions as a warning that policing in England and Wales is facing a perfect storm because of rising crime and staff shortages the president of the police superintendent Association will tell ministers there's a policing model based on fewer officers doing more and working longer is fundamentally flawed the Home Office says extra funding still under discussion. 110th of 50 year old men have the heart of a 60 year old public health Anglin also predicts almost 7 and a half 1000 people will die of heart disease or stroke this month Dr Mark not doing is from the British Heart Foundation the problem is driven by a number of factors play behavior or risk factors such as smoking selective and crucially medical respect those which include blood pressure and cholesterol and there are too many people 'd living with high blood pressure and I don't know about that is chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said he doesn't want to punish Britain but wants to educate people about the cost of leaving the European Union the government insists it won't accept a high divorce Bill but the labor m.p. David Lammy says it may not have a choice negotiating with a man representing 27 countries was never going to be easy when he says that he needs to educate the British public I've got to say he's probably right about that well there are costs and liabilities to our relationship with the e.u. That we signed up to that means that there is going to be a big bill the state of emergency has been declared in Los Angeles as the city battles the worst wildfires in its history 3 homes have been destroyed and hundreds more have been evacuated Californias had to hate wavin the flames have been fanned by strong winds. 11 people have been injured at a drag racing event in Australia after cost sprayed burning fuel out onto the crowd one man's in critical condition after the incident burns out competition in Alice Springs and city downs co-found a little tobacco has died at the age of 67 the group was best known for hits including really in the u.s. And Ricky Don't Lose That Number. Is deputy editor of complex music you know you can hear the American tradition of jazz r. And b. And black music in general in their music and I think you know it's like 2 white guys on her guitar it's rocking it in that way but it's so much more. That's nice we can get an update on the u.s. Open Gigi summons at Flushing Meadows for the such progress that he's serving for a place in the quarterfinals he had a match point in the game the set number 2 against copy to make a wreath at the world at number 3 and now pitch critter is 3 points away from a 1st quarter final here since 2015 is the 1st top 10 player she has faced since she returned to the 2 off that knife attack she's playing in a 820 meant and she is 3 points away from a place in the last 8 leading by set 53 and 15 there he was arrested a sports piece if he wasn't going to do is how it's a mistake in the lead of the Formula One drivers' championship for the 1st time this season after victory at the Italian grown Prix for Sebastian Vettel was 3rd in this 3 points behind Hamilton with 7 races to go both got their 1st win away at Leicester Tigers for 14 years they play the closing stages with just 13 men but held on to take it 20 $723.00 teams guys Chris Froome increased his overall lead Espana to 61 seconds after the 15th stage and Belgium of the 1st European team to qualify for next year's football World Cup Romelu Lukaku scored the winner in their 21 victory over Greece as he was in Crawford let's go back to Flushing Meadows for . The rest of this I imagine will be quite emotional effects or manages to pull this one off it would be hugely emotional as I mentioned everything she's been through in the last 8 months she's back playing after 4 months she underwent 4 hours of surgery on her left hand to try and heal tendons and nerves that being damaged she still doesn't have feeling into the things the left hand she's left handed she serves out like down the line for the world number 3 for her from the Greek cross-court So it's like big big back I just up the line for Greta just of the life that they are hitting a huge ball uncreative it just miss is that it goes to play until it's finally free . He's the 1st player at this level of this who has faces have returned and she said before the match that it meant that she started to go deep into tournament she returns at the French Open on the clay in Paris everybody was very surprised to see her after she had the surgery she went to university and enrolled in a degree thinking about life after tennis and her surgeon didn't say whether he thought she could play again and he says it's not sleep miracle if she's back playing at this level that's you and she says down the center she misses commits of a dozen tents like conditions where they can be very hot and humid it tends to be very noisy in New York in the all through our stadium but it hasn't been too hot this time she double faults again and the pressure now telling she smiles as she looks at her feet stuck up in a move to reach the who is looking to be the new world number one has a plan to get us back on the side of the 2nd set and I think in our case even when it's prejudices and they think they are winning their own She's 27 years of age she will not meet a nicer person on the tennis tour as Christmas serves out wide and misses she can't afford to be nice at the moment she needs to close this one out the 4th meeting with Gov McGriff and McGriff is steps in to attack the 2nd serve she hits the back on but it keeps the top of the net some of the crowd that was a winner from the Spaniard a few holes now they settle 23000 people inside this magnificent stadium with the roof off as Christmas says out why the backlash the piece of strategy depends of the box down the throat the cold the awful One is while the mother we thank you so much that. She had a title in the brassiere return she had an early exit at Wimbledon and it seemed to be just around the pressure a little bit too much because Would you believe off the one tournament she went into Wimbledon as the favorite to win the Wimbledon title yes she's won it twice before but not off to surgery not after a career ending injury which was when someone knocked on her door and said they were from the electrical company and she let the. And they held her to ransom with a knife to her throat she fought them off and then damaged all the fingers of talent and she hits a deep back and put it comes on the forehead goes close because she is moving she goes back to the mugger with a back and goes because it's a 4 and I think that's going to be known as the right point number 2 in the race to the attacker has never been caught he played the she fought him off and straight into surgery for Petrovich behold the tennis world was shocked at what had happened she held a press conference shortly afterwards he held it around some I think about $250.00 was the amount he wanted. This pitch professor from the Czech Republic reaches out looking to save breakpoint number 2 sends out like good White says deep down back and sent us a quote from Christmas number back a bit it's known for her use of their nerves for Governor McGreevey He's the fan player at the moment she's a former French Open champion she won the title at Wimbledon this year and all eyes have been on God being in the group can she become the best player in the world that is a ranking that's helped by carrying a pistol recently Serina Williams who vacated that spot gave birth to her 1st child a baby girl and her sister Venus who's 37 is already through to the quarter finals big sets big wigs and full hand down the throat of the coach even from Chris without Gabina McGrath to stop the point she will not play on she wants hole cards to look at them on the call didn't come but look Aretha believes that she saw the ball drift low this is massive because if the ether is wrong it is another match point the pitch of it's about the hole card will tell us her card will have the final say Oh Miss Ball Oh Miss point was indeed at the moment. But sure one judge was doing looking in line some agrees that lives on she has a 3rd breakpoint opportunity to get us back on so it's a difficult thing trying to serve out a much like this for a place in a grand slam quarter final the winner to face the most money of that spring. Has that screams from Texaco this is because she's a great point number 3 she's got it back to juice she looks for straight out there at the moment he's hit as many winners as she has unforced errors but that is the type of game that pits one has big serving big hits it goes for her shots and I think getting bigger and bigger so reduce number 3 feet on court for an hour and 45 minutes it's just gone 10 o'clock in the evening is Christmas says Dallas and she gets make all high forehead touch the want to bring to the madness match point once again thanks to this machine pumps her right place this would be so emotional. If you can close this out we were to return to face the here at the u.s. Open for the very popular they get these 3 so much never thought should play again they were at times she says she can't grip the racket handle because she doesn't have feeling in 2 of those fingers but his she is 8 months on a point away from the quarter final serves out wide who misses not by much points out wide we lost the ball we found the full everyone a set and quits of a leader with the stands inside the baseline still attack should be aggressive and she will pounce when she does now the back and down the line the back end which cross quite decent Christopher Cross go from Agree to cross the backhand from Christmas down like there's no 3 to stretch forehand from Christmas down like thank God for her current and she has a race so the cancer drops her racquet the floor she looks over to her coach she looks very very emotional as she will walk to the net and shake the hands of l.b.j. Move the rethinkers would you believe that pitch but it's a has picked up the 1st top 10 win since her return to action she now turns to the crowd she waves the crowd she plays kisses the How about it is Petrovitch about to go through the quarter finals of the u.s. Open 7663 for a meeting with tee time former champion Venus Williams James e. Thank you so much I was so dramatic thank you very much Geez I would that Flushing Meadows in New York for the u.s. Opens. Mornings gramaphone and 80859096 Andres and I was goaded like to join his excellent calls this morning actually absentee exiting calls thank you very much for marking coaches of last call with her because somewhere else again in this conversation where we talk about formal English and casual English if you like or less formal English 080-859-0969 extension 3 the broad question to you this morning is simply. If we let the floodgates open and already call Ed when the man just did point out that the floodgates open so maybe I should change the context lightly and say leave the floodgates open for. It is the train Oh is the direction of traffic of a language going in a positive way or negative ways it flowing in or out whichever way you want but it's about the consequences of letting the floodgates open that this conversation is about what all of these dramatic consequences generally if you like or specifically with our grim Ariens who are as never never will go in and sorry Victor and you'll be both please never lend Terry to see the m. In Cardigan he said as you go through this conversation make sure you doth soon i and cross it see they say Yeah I thought that was accident it is. Sort of teaches you that highlights you don't know of course you get out there in Florida but I've been I've never thought of that permutations of my name do you get it you got it Jerry he's on then you don't you tell us yeah make sure you daughter No I don't I know you got it fine you know I did get really you know you take it we were talking about royally I mean you have to run the lies that your death as well yeah whatever I did I came to feel you could just tell you I don't want you to do what you don't even read to me you can be rude to read me but I like to take exception to something that never was said before the break when he described full English is true the only true and correct full. That's what I thought. It really is you do all down every form of English by saying it's the only true correct you can say that what I'm doing because I think. True correct is absolutely absolutely offense . I'm compelled to offend you Terry I'm still proud but I think you must be offended a great deal of people I am Ok to offend anybody who actually doesn't actually respect the language as it is if there is a straight sort of language being used to bully people and say I'm better with my language than you are with your tail I'm staying there. By and I think I'm not talking about me I'm talking about people who take the trouble to get things right Terry which is no shortcut problem it's a ration of your point of view doesn't make it right I'm not nearly reiterating it I'm sorry I'm. Sorry what did you say reiterating please get the language correct I think a person tearing. Into a heater like that I'm merely trying to pass on the future generations the language would I have been fortunate up to have it one of the 3 greatest languages in history which I think is what I need to expire or for sorts of forms and means to the point where you got it and then when I got it developed again when the next generation did its developed a good price they are going to develop and it becomes stronger and better and more all encompassing it becomes Wicca and wall slovenly I fight to end what's that's what people always used to believe and they lost that belief is because people used to believe it doesn't mean it's true it doesn't I'm merely pointing out that they used to believe it and the most the best braised used to believe it from Shakespeare of what they used to preserve the languish just Dr Johnson made his diction able to preserve what was that really actually he did it for money he did not do you want me to tell you about the price of dictionaries he did it simply for wages it was that he was a cropping hack and not. He was a grubby hack and someone who took trouble immense research to get what he got right right then considering the number of mistakes in it yes but he did his best he took a lot of bases on which the Oxford English Dictionary today exists we actually get . Really. Good David e. Major with us good morning David good morning to you or the morning David. Alitalia I want to stand up for you and I wanted to do it right in the beginning a program for you but you will preserve a language David you gotta be careful when you start of an eval he's only going to want to take you out for dinner and fall in love with you. And if you know you like I do You said my heart does sometimes be asked when ladies get on this program. Well I mean the idea of we well what we desire to say about one person a month these days but. I don't really care much if it turns out. However. I think that level is correct in that if we just take 20 words there and there where and where and barbell and barbell. Sabo Ok Yes Great job well is something you left in order to improve your muscles a barbell is something also lift out of a river on a hook right and now we're going to run is already a problem is there I'm not sure that I think you mean a lady that was in the box. That that would just be. An English even suicide rather than something out of the show. They Oxford dictionary such but barbell which Or else is really left and bother with one l. Is a fish. Is Stephen Hawking. Vege the even Hawking. My God what a job there are pages I had to read 2 times 3 times 5 times in 6 times even word by word until eventually I understood it meaning this hand was enough some of the language or it was of a scientific night I daresay he tried to bring it down to the only public but he couldn't help himself and when he sees a man who found Hawking radiation is named for instance and many other things. From the back Odin Yes. It was a rather Yeah project point is that if you were to take us away from English where words are spelled if what is true now do it phonetic what is Jodi instead of American England been separated by the sign language we can reconcile what is right . Chilling this is what we preempt the get out of the Oxford English Dictionary and I look with grammar as well about how about the people who just speak the language without from a dictionary. Language will always alter we can't help that we still have to make sure that we do it in some call kind of correct fashion so they doesn't lose its potentiality Yeah I'm not a take it take young spake with a 2 words together. Should that be going in New York City just to get dictionary but actually have a service a purpose in that it is not a young speak give it 5 or 10 years may well make me well each member when I remember the very morning that the word bling was 1st heard on radio Today programme Yeah Radio 4 and there were a group of kids playing at a playground or whatever and you know the reporter was talking about whatever and the kid said well you know it's playing isn't it as a 1st time generally probably as your 1st time the word bling was ever used all right as far as I could as on any I mean my wife would see each other and we immediately knew he was the kid member of the way. Playing are we missing something do you have the same good yeah brings to the today and that was 20 years ago. Yes but I don't how many there were produced and so in 20 years so I'm a big up big up kind of about the same time as a big up you know he big something up beginning up or you know whatever that's still around bigging up isn't it. My still be around but I don't think he's used as much as I think the only Jonathan Ross Show you think the funny thing is I've heard it in court. You know I've heard the judge say you know you try to begin to. Well I'm rather shocked. I would like to support somebody else but thank you for asking. I was trying to form a larger anyway but want to try to make his you're right you are right David that 90 percent of it would just disappear you know I don't think we're going to be saying that sig in 10 years time I do things I just I mean we might be still saying bad because. I mean in good health or bad meaning Yes exactly and but I think the point of it is that I had enough difficulty reading and eventually understanding believed on not invoking books the truth I did by Stephen Hawking can't you be unscientific but imagine if a state of having the true English which science depends on. If it had been done phonetically. I think I would have had even more difficulty because I would I would have had to go back even more often just like hold on that doesn't make sense so I'm saying you know that would indeed be true meaning I never want to come in I'm not sure I should I'm going to have sides depends on quote unquote true English we'll come to that in a moment. I gave believe David ever understood Ok I don't have to believe it understandable frankly I don't believe it makes sense and I think he got away with it and I think if you really understand what he's what he actually says and it's not my hat Ok I've you know not chilling I'm afraid I guess start chewing and you know I think. You're right for him a little bit so let's. Forget about the hard work yeah he gets a book of it yeah. I can I say negative I don't I can't do not believe it can be done I actually become very terrible when no I don't talk the work all the while we've been talking and there is more than one sense within the fish. For the work it is not. It's filament growing from the mouth of the snout to the fish and it's your large European freshwater fish of the cow and there's also an African variant is well changing the subject but was different for women in a bar. Just there on them just asking what was I suppose is not much about to drink. To drink to be upright. I've got Gus would say thanks for reminding me about that. Yeah I know but David it's been fascinating to see you know apologize it's going to try to move on because so many calls and texts and e-mails as well to get through and thank you very much always a pleasure. Speeches well by the time make it ages and it had he says the relatively recent trend of starting sentences with so this knowing. Seems to become even more prevalent irritating in my opinion but I can be a grumpy Is it an Americanism just a guess well not bad guess not bad guess is an Americanism Terry I don't think so don't take Uli it is just a slightly irritating through overuse is it is not a coward full of speech you know what stuff I mean glue No Pete I really. Don't want to tell you I mean you know again the thought of total says Hey Mr Green I'm still doing it in a Scottish accent I mean you almost hear the kind of Scottish action we do in Nigeria here Mr Quinn in Scotland poor poor or near confused. I know where in England I had the name and I do agree that in many ways the Scots speak a language that's. Trying to get beyond. Just this there isn't. Just going to think. I've already suffered enough by exactly to myself from Scotland with my eggs and you're going to only add to my travails when if you were near the place. Those guys are therefore we've got to politely peeved with the cross words with which provides such clues qualified with quote unquote sounds like when it should be you know Disney sounds remotely like Ok. Do you guys get that yeah it would really sound like you know it's part of Hama funs Yeah and they're not homophobic I mean these nice. Talking to say yeah because that's what I saw Israel to be Disney sound remotely like Ok I get it again. Eventually thanks for that Donald thanks you know forcing me to do my Nigerians Gottesman again Pete the milkmen says example of the gate language already being open is the. Word derived from an acronym which in itself doesn't make sense. We're trying to. Demi Sadie by oh that's right nice job from do is it from our dad then Joe you know your son one time the wrong side of Iowa squad. I don't have a son either by that of the Master Oh rather than yes probably my brother and I have images and as an English teacher it was 60 years on the eve of a new term I firmly believe that we ain't got I firmly believe that we ain't got an easy with a vote does verbal talking ting any brow of is banging them kids with the old Shakespeare books from day one in blood we we is going to smash a sick. You'd think you know from the kids are you thinking of Ricky's. Club of kids that don't know little gauge their children getting the dignity they took right now you know but you know when you're school you call them kids if you can and I got we got it. I think anything American as an adult I will take it that our kids believe me the ones around my abuela like goats a guy the kids and then stop eating you invite them round your house really sadly that's basically correct again right it's true it's true. You want them around for one simple sandwich and then before you know you're out of bread for a month anyway Ashley in it's true actually now says Oh typical word is set the table is this is set up how you set this set me going now yeah yeah Ok I get it set in many different contexts that make it a challenge does that open up the floodgates where we can say set which context not sure about the whole of guys if you need to Richard says out ads also this relaxation of the language may cause b.b.c. Reporters to constantly say basically. And that's as bad as they basically is one of those words that maybe means what no is what they mean they just gamble. And the problem is is a me and my friends as well Prime who are. Put in parenthesis is a bit never crossed out that point you nearly did when I said it he shouted It's always been that it's a kids. Why is it wrong to say me or my friends but it's alright to say I like me and my friend why name me and my friends you can't say me and my friend knows what why not because but because me is the accusative I. Guess is me and sometimes you wouldn't say I mean no. Yet you take out the rest of it you would say I know not mean oh yeah he knows he knows. Get Things Right sometimes Yeah well no I just absorbed it when I was a school without learning the grammar it just kind of that's how the sentence comes together funny I like somebody else even terrorists can do that when they should be that you know because I don't know that being a kid you don't owe. Their troops moved. Here only because this is relevant there is nothing with this broadcast English radio English where it's not quite full English and it's not quite social English and it probably isn't a middle ground and I think that accounts for a lot of the reasons why Cajun It sounds to social and occasionally it all is it sounds too formal and it's the constant problem that all broadcasters have the problem you brought causes the problem for broad causes it's like another corruption maybe even a b C's to get right. To it didn't jackets the lieutenant right yeah right they also never see that black folks like me present programs. Anyway lesson I was story inside it I did your brother way back in those days you're talking about level but it doesn't matter things have moved on a bit they would have had a program like this back in those days as well. As a valid one problem which I really like I would even have had a 5 Live back in those days you know you know they didn't have those they didn't do but you know the real problem for broad conses is that it's live radio is law yes and we have to do things sometimes things are scripted and you know you have to read them in a way that doesn't sound scripted and you read that beautifully you know just. Sounds it has its grip and. I can assure you the last half hour would have benefited from being scripted in this league. 0808596 not through there's another hour of this unscripted program to come who knows where the next half hour because talk about grammar 1st let's get the latest 5 Live headlines of Divinia Ramos. Blog. This is b.b.c. 5 Live. The u.s. Has given North Korea a stark warning following their latest nuclear test Defense Secretary James Mattis says any threat from Pyongyang against America and its allies will be met with massive military force a senior police officers warn that policing in England and Wales is facing a perfect storm because of rising crime and staff shortages the president of the police superintendents Association will tell menaces that's a policing model based on fewer offices doing more and working longer is fundamentally flawed talks resume today on trying to bring back Northern Ireland's power sharing government the Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire will hold separate meetings with the 5 main storeman parties to discuss the prospects for restoring devolved government among those is facing its 1st u.k. Strike after staff 2 of its restaurants walked out in a row over 0 hours contracts and conditions work is at Cambridge and Christ that began the action at midnight Sydney's we can get an update on the u.s. Open with. 8 months after knife attack that nearly ended her career Petrovich of a stretch the quarter finals of the us open following a straight sets win over Wimbledon champion. It's her 1st top 10 win since her return to the top 8 tournament faced 37 year old 2 time former champion Venus Williams Well Maria Sharapova is out now he with a rest today sports news and Croft Sadie's Lewis Hamilton has taken the lead of the Formula One drivers championship for the 1st time this season after victory at the Italian Grand Prix Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel is 3 points behind the Briton with 7 races to go overseas. Races to go there's so much that can happen but. The whole year has been up ahead $25.00 points or whatever it may be and then you know comes down and goes back up come down so it's a funny it's you know to overhaul it and the plan is to not have it go the other way again and once and came home have his teammate Valtteri Bottas with Vettel in 3rd at Monza all of the views in reaction are available on the checkered flag podcast from the 5 Live websites where bass players got a long awaited win in rugby union's Premiership. Have Won Oh Well 'd the road for those last time saves 2003 they were reduced to their teen men who want to finish yes both holding on for a 2723 win despite late pressure from Leicester Tigers it means 50 tries were scored in the opening weekend of the Premiership season Arsenal legend Ian Wright has responded strongly to midfielder Mesut Ozil calling his criticism of media pundits laughable writes words came after the German international whose into the final year of his deal at the Emirates some x. Players to stop talking and start supporting I'd love to see them instead of coming I'm going to go with the so-called former players we're not talking about form a press corps sizing a team that's charging up the League and winning league just we won the f.a. Cup but we're talking about a team that's on the performing and not just the team the people in the boardroom the manager decisions everybody you can hear more of Wright's view on the 606 podcast it's available on our website or your preferred supplier team's guys Chris Froome increased his overall lead of the world to a Spaniard he finished 5th on stage 15 to stretch his advantage over in tens or nearly to 61 seconds in the Super League qualifiers there were wins for witness Catalan Dragons and a whole chaos and real win pick bronze medalist Ed Lang won the traps over the world shotgun Championships in Moscow. The free too. Good to see. You. Lou is a lead sleeved shirt this championship looks like this it was 3 point Sally chuck us like to use the political stuff in your small topless building piece of. Junk 5 feet 6 unused and the back. This is b.b.c. 5 Live. What. Would I Do It did all I say. Possibly but would you say possibly did I consult you don't know if you do you did you didn't offend my ear so I didn't really notice nobody would have offended you never was here because Judy is says I felt never wince when Dawson said I don't even have never used that as a phrase ever a screed for he asked people I know I'm saying Did I use what if you get it can be corrected if. This is to have a nice time now let us people have a nice time spending correct but what we people as starting a sentence is correct in that context but I want without city we will. I'm not sure about this because I've never used it before me well if somebody has the time. In their lives to listen back on the i Player let me know in future please if you've got the time to the same back because I don't know if you said city. Do you like me and according to what context you didn't yeah. People support you Max. But they support us people Ok Meg says the old system of. Millions and billions was better made more sense you must admit I made it to you and Terry 1000000000 I'm not sure why we were there. Because if something is a 1000000000 it allows the option to multiply but if something is a BB you call it there's a huge gap between a 1000000000 the no trillion just just call it a 1000000000 it but what you're doing is losing the a word in it's correct what you're doing is standardizing across the globe then why not just call it a WW. Well because the word 1000000000 exists and that is when the point I was trying to make was that. Whenever this is what I just call a 1000000000 a 1000000000 I'm saying with amount to call a WW a 1000000 Well I'll tell you why because we've been calling it we had been calling it a 1000000000 cause I didn't think yes and I mean yes they can't keep using that yeah I'll give them because there are so many things that we did just that we've been doing for 500 years. For better or worse but there another one says well when making the context of a 1000000000 it's all good value we need a bigger way of numbering we did which. Forcing women to prove if they were witches or not by beis suspense submerging them in wards and if they drowned Yeah they weren't witches but one of the easy was a good thing we ditched that just all that ditched no pun intended I'm not saying that's all but I'm just saying that if 500 years ago we did just that and your argument would be we must fight and resist ditching any such things that we've done for 500 years then love the women. Not the women around minds anyway but. Only once and. I think I think that mold 500 years ago can I think like honey I don't like it we are always post Shakespeare. Anyway let's leave that one suspended in mid century actually just seriously it must be kosher explain because it was around the time. Ok I will never get probably introduced it I think almost in that one of my stinkers rules. Russ's if we couldn't speak all the changes in English is going back to what you just said if we could speak over changes in English in the last 33 or 69 years would we be able to live in a brave new world of certainty it would be unspeakable and while your own brave new world what $984.00 predicted for language where we start controlling it and bringing it down to New Speak well you just don't know they're doing it I think it's a more a more simple concepts or only help is what happening at the end of the language and being ruled by this concept of politically correct we may not know all the same things you used to be allowed to say on e says you can still say best sense you know to say best sense because only says it and you know what better sense means to know your own Ok. Doesn't mean no and then I think what I think you kidding I get you I get it oh it is only says Can we have Ed Wood on this was added to my just on every we because he's talking been a sense yeah he's talking you know and I think I just agreed about some of it and said I'm pushing this I can recreate it well. And I cover lets not say to make out ways people speak otherwise I'm going to be told Oh. You're just it a stalker ish aggression come on I know I didn't play such Well just got here except when we're north of the border and simply do not corrupt. Yes I do great you know apologize and if you only just come back from Edinburgh with Scottish antecedents it is it can be put to day one can slip it lawyer day do it again. Going to school after that is fine except thought is the word Yeah Scotch is not rude Scotch is a blended whisky a Scotch is also a blended brisket Scotch is the correct word for it what the ignition a Scottish Scottish are the Scotch called Scottish. Nice though. I've just quickly looked it up in the dictionary and no it's not. Where you must be looking up a modern dictionary because the the modern dictionaries in the last 3040 years are corrupted gave back to the same 961007 day Oxford English Dictionary and I think you'll find it is any Scotch unless you're north described as an old fashioned Scottish and I think that sums it up well passion is you know so what up so 3040 years ago and why I say gave back to old fashioned The just Miriam in Kara diggin. Says I love the English language although it's my 2nd language my mother tongue is the oldest extent in Europe and the other official language of the u.k. It's all you know what exactly we you know she's in Kerrigan Yeah it's a completely phonetic language and the development of Britain eg the original language of this country. 2 millennia before English which is a main Johnny come lately only standardise watch will certain Shakespeare this will wind never love something rotten She says we were writing elegant south so strict meat and poetry a 1000 years before English was invented and we still have to make up our own sing Gonnet which is a version of these for g.c.s.e. And it's a mood challenging as well as oh it's more challenging as well as a more logical language as you know dos in the morning which is you know these are again It's true yeah it's true. Never you know Yes yes go to completely onside that . I think English is an improvement on what was done the at all said the night that represents a nation chosen basically represents the previous language more than English Shakespeare represents English not quite as you call neutrals and well understand what. You can actually you can regard there's a lot of French and I thought I should have said I can't go. I can and I had no question whatsoever you're a bright you know it's not that I'm not prize well but it's because once you've done it once or twice particularly when you do g.c.s.e. You know you get it. The cadence and the Tom and the way words they used and the influence of French I don't I didn't you get I didn't get the meaning that you trouble you do you use now to say just what does that mean you know I don't know I don't know but it is well you know obviously I mean. I don't think context tend to make sense. Ok the odd word you don't get I met during a conversation this is days in short true says during a conversation with my mother today I described a person as both legged and my mother said it's pronounced both leg. Oh I'm sorry no it's the other way round I described purses both legged my mother said it's pronounced both legged can tonights gentleman say which they think is correct is it bowed legged or bowed legged strictly speaking unless there is an accent over the final be exposed legged but conventionally it is both elected nevertheless never I am saying is correct and they like it is. A bit of I presume a relatively modern corruption a day you'd find it in 1966. But I may be wrong Terry I really didn't know I remember it being said in the 60s as boat like it. It is that he appears on a number of words it's just the conventional pronunciation really. If it was in a poem and it suited no thought he'd be quite happy to go though like it to get to the beach in the bar never right now I would avoid using it in that 2nd I'm just looking at my get creative if he really find a good I have got a not logical fashion. Help don't help her hold the. Oh yeah I can't find anything if this poorly I'm going for another probably haven't but by the end the program. Dictionary has it pretty outspoken like it in fact I don't wish what gauges your dictionary I suspect you're not of my direct It's a dictionary that records the way the words we use know know how I'm going to 2nd know that I'm going to circle in this case never has a point because he has always said those word and do juries get it wrong and in this case he may have a point 0 Well in that case I'll have to open up parks that this is just an online version of also that came very quickly when all my dictionaries are corrupted but my point is that you know this is provided by Oxford I need it but I've got a modern Oxford English to victory too and it's rubbish to take to get a problem. Yes it is to get it I don't want you to comically I have to get a proper critic and you have to go back to about 180 after that it became corrupted . Or all I knew was The Simpsons day and Kerry O'Brien I am being so far edited mind that there is a reference to both legged from 47 c. And the the what letters was it the past in images that were even a year ahead of the past in letters. There was a mystery. Here still sort of I for I deny that it would have been used 50 years ago or a 100 years ago as as they begin to be made. Because the language of how is that what you say it did the language gets corrupted and modern said at that that just are not supposed late and then a bit late I believe the correct number not just read it was that way when you were at school doesn't make it right if we could he didn't. Get it. It's the corruption of the time I think you may find it sort of 700 years ago I did think you'll find it say 200 years ago 300 years or 400 years ago I gave you shake they wouldn't said they would make it good but I think you will find some it's us I'm consulting my Dick Cheney saying that but I may still be wrong. Yet I think you may well be busy opening up the Oxford English Dictionary of the month but not the modern one piece Terry. It's on historical principles it's a. Right if it is a dictionary that exists across the length of time of the language. It's even before all this the bari did it in one stakes if you're using a modern one it doesn't get things right and it is that the oxygen is really dry because it keeps everything it is it was and then I had the sense is to let that page until you did surely only recall town things they used it doesn't give you the it's not the all that sort of how it should be used to recall it's how it is generally yes but that's what how dictionaries used to be but now they are no they say they record high things are used by people who get things wrong that is the tragedy of modern diction. It said everybody's have to step except you never know. It's not it's I am in step with 2 dishes and I am I to step with that with when in effect and in a proper education people are taught rules anymore as some animals even throw Jochen very quickly them but it was too late you know when you talk about being in step with House staff were about to say bow legged or legged but really nice it would have been sometimes this magic doesn't always work Carole in Sussex says it's important that all measurements are standardized for scientific purposes worldwide e.g. The 1000000000 in question that is and its age is important and it's a great. What what we got corrupted but I think America in this respect because it is used to work perfectly well century after century after century after century and now we've actually lost it we've lost a use for me what is so sad about it is music we cannot communicate with past generations they didn't understand what a 1000000000 means and if we go on future generations will love them to stab us if they keep changing the words the beauty of English and his mate used to make they keep its meaning century after century after century and as and this is in this same vein is Daisy in short shoes. Both legs or both legged So this one might last another hour or so Keith says is it aged or aged. 3 years those with slightly different since this is well known. Are indeed we did did the time and have a look it up I'm afraid the answer is I do not know. I write with the pronunciations they use for different nuances all. Right. So it sort of Terry something could be a reason I think. Agreed agreed agreed so we can use both then we got one is correct in one context one is pretty no other context right so but we can use both. You know since we can but we can't use base you know anything in the same context what's the difference what's the difference of those countries work we use one in one context but not in the other one is a bit participle of that the other is an object. Ok so we're going to say in a casket that's an adjective yes in a casket and the other one h one n h one sorry. Casket of water whatever it is that's an adjective and the other one was a passport is would you say Well I think I'm right in saying that I would. Phrase all of these but made me what is lived. Yet like an aged parent age means you're going to say something else but was Agent means. Oh I see aged means old aged me when I have aged a lot it's part of the it's the pulse of the world that I aging Ok well that's more straightforward than I imagined it would be easier by the likes while you do this it is it is thank goodness for that otherwise would run out it's arm are the courses for you. Jimmy was. Never just said yes yes. I I hope I didn't but it could happen if you tell me you're not mean . They should be your speech when you say this because we're not scripted Unfortunately it's that same line mistakes and I always thought if I was reading from a script. Yeah we see what the problem the broad causes have unlike you I do I also don't like the likely. No no no. I would send them pitching we could have these programs or host and then there's been a problem. Anyway because Jimmy says Surely that is bang out of order I love the way he says bang out of order would that be correcting this bang out of order at Whistling. In correct English in full English but hey in legal slang Terry. Yeah it's not formally wish but it's perfectly understandable English and it is being used if you suspect you have an agreement you are but it's common enough there are just your agreeing with me I'm not the sort of agreement to say storms are exciting time for bed. Never was wrong about says a few people who've commented on this and say yeah yeah few people I know I say negative to that which is less than I did I think well why is it you think Latin is a safer place for you to be than Scotland. I'm not saying it is I meant to say that when I came here like showing off my mind always a lesson which I teach. Show if you know I'm so yeah well when I actually don't says ad hoc sometimes drawing present. Because a can't think of any one last and I know my last. Time. It's actually I would argue against it be a lot and now I think it's just simply part of the language let's see I lost someone so welfare is part of this language but it's still French and it is once it's used and absorbed in the English language becomes English it's also Ok it is a Latin ism you come under when we use it in English in English literature it is a Japanese word. As just as is raw general although there is think about how about what Sarah has knowledge hockey whatever page do not admit these words does but is cocky in English I got told he is a good word and talked about English but is English we use it is English we're not sure if this isn't even you use it fixes English but it still left him but I'm saying when you say they don't sit by English does that make it any more or less. Its origin if he's been adopted by English does that still make it Indian. Is it still an Indian word. Ya know Berman saying is it still an Indian word forget its origins rig cept its origins when you docked a word does it still have its signature to nationality or does it now become part of the new niche and I answer that yes I was hoping you would Oh yes well no it's still the original range if you use a for instance you want to leave in self welfare without with the French accent robbed of them in an English ways it is a foreign word being used by the English language but there are so many words where we go back you know we would have to attribute to other languages that which makes the the purity and the. Brilliance of the English language somewhat suspect and that's a very slight That is why we have the richest language in the world this while back at base to play it by supplying a lot of the other layers because basically a lot from words in. Our language is a much bigger company any other language based upon love from words is what I'm saying it is and when we appropriate those from words and sometimes change them around we saw the change pronunciations the very least but often enough which I just telling as well. It is it still is it's still an Indian word or French word or whatever when we've actually messed around with. What's fairly if we changed over we obviously cock is a difficult one because it would have been written with a different alphabet but I think it's always stayed stayed the same again it's. Ok he did not change the spelling of the. You start to slip just a little I decided to say let's use Ok. Ok why don't we because that's incorrect spelling Oh Ok he was right and I that's incorrect spelling as well so they're the only form of this quote doc a dog correct and what does the dog signify after the k. What was original would be absent forgotten what I get it's an American as many ways about it Mark. But there is no absolute certainty there is an entire book devoted to try and find the earliest examples of it any number of theories but we don't even know why do we put the dogs out of the idea well I did it with you but we do what you do as a religion abbreviation exactly otherwise would be UK wouldn't it yeah. But I'd a put down because nobody actually knows what the origin of. My thought was or correct . Then quit with. A guess I think I think neighbor he actually knows what they are getting is that the Navy thoughts. So you're prepared to break the rules of grammar just because you don't know you're not breaking a rule because that because there is actually no origin of it you can't pronounce it as Ok without showing that it is an abbreviation sure I want to go this one in very could be from Andrea who's emailed from Argentina and Andrew says I was taught to strip the printer pronounce often admitting that c. Sound nowadays it's quite common to have the t. Sound often quite clearly of course when listening to the radio or. Radio because I'm in Argentina often is it often with see or not to pronounce it c. Or not I would say without a tape. Probably sets it to rhyme with all. I say often. I thought it did yes so with or without c. I don't think it matters how he said it doesn't make getting things right matters now you got it right either way you're speaking it you speak it with the way it's comfortable to speak and I deny that comfort has got anything to do with it whatsoever getting it right is what is is and is what passes. I despair I really do just that and I despair quite often does that mean I won the argument. Quite. Well I'm staying out of food often Thank you for your company gentlemen. Thank you. For. This is the same. It's 4 o'clock Good morning this is what I am for about I'm Datsun anybody from a new South Korea test missiles in response to the North's nuclear bomb tests and in sport Lewis Hamilton takes the advantage in the race for the Formula One title. Is b.b.c. 5 with. South Korea has carried out a ballistic missile training exercise in response to North Korea's latest nuclear bomb tests our correspondent Robin Brunt's in Seoul I think what I was designed to do was to replicate and attack on the sites in North Korea where this nuclear test was carried out this brief statement said that these targets were hit success really they were hit accurately and clearly what this is designed to do is to show the capability that the military in the South has the us has one Pyongyang it will be met with a massive military response if it threatens America or its allies a 7 hour standoff between inmates in stealth Birmingham prisons come to an end trouble broke out after some prisoners refused to return to their cells yesterday evening last December hundreds of prisoners were involved in riots at the jail the studies suggest 110 to 50 year old men have a heart age of 10 years old or Public Health England says it puts them at increased risk of heart attack or stroke. The chief negotiator says he wants to educate the u.k. About the price it has to pay for leaving the union Michele Banja doesn't think the consequences of bricks it have been explained properly to the British people the Bronx Secretary David Davis has the keys to him of trying to put pressure on the u.k. To pay a huge financial settlement total Victoria Hanuman's a lecturer in British politics at Leeds University. In order to try to get her husband David David Kernell to pay the minimum amount of money. And have a chance to suggest the. Blackmailing of pressurising These are traditional methods that would be utilized in order to try and pressure to the negotiating table I don't think that they will be successful. The governor of Texas Greg Abbott says the cleanup bill following tropical storm Harvey could be as high as $180000000000.00 recovery operations are underway across Texas and in neighboring Louisiana volunteers at a church in Houston are handing out clothes and supplies to those affected my house is leaking from the front to back and they are now my Camus's Mr and we have ran out of what. We had Nelson to. Clones and stuff like this is material things but we live 12 people have been injured at a drag racing event in Australia after cost bread burning fuel out on to the crowds of 47 year old man suffered critical injuries the burnouts competition in Alice Springs and tributes are being paid to the co-founder of Steely Dan will tobacco he's died at the age of $67.00 he is the Grammy Award winning producer record producer Larry Klein he was such a credibly smart guy a great songwriter someone who would just really really thought about how great songs are constructed and how to do things with it really was one of my favorite people in the world and I just pretty much started as the news g.g. Someone has an update from the u.s. Open 8 months after knife attack that nearly ended her career Petrovich of it is through to the quarter finals of the u.s. Open following a straight sets win over Wimbledon champion. It's her 1st top 10 win since her return to the top 8 tournament she'll now face 37 year old 2 time former champion Venus Williams Well Maria Sharapova is out now he with a rest today sports news is he was in Croft Lewis Hamilton has taken the lead at the Formula One drivers championship for the 1st time this season after victory at the Italian Grand Prix Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel was 3rd and his 3 points behind Hamilton with 7 races to go by their 1st win away unless the Tigers for 14 years they play the closing stages with. Just 13 men but held on to take it 2723 teams guys Chris Froome increased his overall lead Espana to 61 seconds after the 15th stage and Belgium of the 1st European team to qualify for next year's football World Cup Romelu Lukaku scored the winner in their 21 victory over Greece this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online smartphone. A quick look at Monday's rise it will be a down start to the date across the south going to spells it will feel warm across the north becoming what and windy with Heinz 20 in Manchester. In the series against England after a fantastic display in the finals at Headingley. Was the way to. Make victory. For the home of cricket for the. Simple test. Match Special team featuring the fairy. Terry. Think it was. The baseballs for Thursday morning at 1020. Volts extra. This is up or not on 5 Live from Dawson added by coming up in this in a moment we'll get the latest on the increasingly tense situation we have North Korea and South Korea after the North Korean nuclear sites was the focus of comments from Pyongyang about the development of a hydrogen bomb Rosso here from Myanmar reports that suggest in the mall range of Muslim villages have been burned down heavy tribute just to the clever man of music the guitarist of Steely Dan will tobacco and also of course will have checkered flag because with all the through his bill. As of the Italian grump free in Monza. First world says North Korea South Korea says it has conducted a live fire exercise simulating in its act on the North Korean nuclear site it's in response to the Pyongyang carrying out its 6 nuclear weapons test the announcement comes out to the u.s. Defense Secretary James Mattis will North Korea that they'll be a massive military response to any threat to us the United States Elwood's territories or not as we've made clear that we have the ability to defend ourselves and our allies South Korea and Japan from any attack in our commitment among the allies are ironclad. Any threat to the United States or its territories including one or our allies will be met with a massive military response a response both of them backed of and overwhelming present jobs also one that America may stop trading with any country the does business with North Korea after describing their actions as hostile and dangerous has talked to Dr Dr Bruce Bechtol who's a professor of political science and engineers State University in Texas and former Defense Intelligence Agency senior analyst on the Korea and Professor what more can you tell us about these South Korean tests. Well South Korea did what we typically see them do at the end of the annual exercises they do every summer with the United States anyway and that's what started a lot of the rhetoric was the North Koreans would like to see those exercises and certainly the South Koreans are prepared to do a preemptive strike on North Korean nuclear facilities as are the Americans and that would have to be worked out between the 2 of them to have that happen but as a Korean specialist for most of my adult life I have to tell you I'm sure hoping that isn't a step that ever gets decided to be taken because I think that. At least 5050 chance would be we would like be likely to see escalation to full scale war so I think that a preemptive strike would be a bad move and certainly I believe president trumps advisors and President Mungiu ns advisors in South Korea are telling him the same thing who's provoking. The North provoking the south or is it the south and possibly you know it says days provoke a little. Well it's certainly convenient for those on the left in the United States to blame this on Trump but I guess it would be convenient for whoever is in the opposition in American political history since about 1905 to blame the American president for all of the difficulties we've had with North Korea but the bottom line is the evidence is overwhelming the reason we have issues with North Korea is because of North Korea and what they've done. Over the past since 1904 really as a develop rather rapidly a nuclear weapon and b. To develop the platforms that could carry it and they've now reached their metamorphosis of that as we saw. Yesterday when they tested a nuclear weapon that could be put on an i.c.b.m. That could hit the United States and on July 4th in July 24th we saw the platform that could carry it so now they have the weapon they have the platform and we keep seeing rhetoric about them using it so that's the concern by the United States South Korea and Japan and our allies such as the United Kingdom as well as a unit known as the sizes by South Korea seen in the north as a provocation No I think that actually they choose to see that as a provocation and here's why I say it that way because when you have military forces that are there to defend the sovereignty of a nation state those forces have to be prepared and these exercises are purely routine on the North Koreans are formally notified in advance of these exercises so that they don't misinterpret them this is just something that the leadership in Pyongyang has chosen to use over the years to get their military and their populace riled up and motivated against the United States and what they call our puppet and South Korea. Pyongyang will know American military capabilities they'll be no doubt of that I'm sure and yet the American defense actually as we heard a moment ago or 2 in that that we heard is basically warning North Korea that look if you want to push this you're going to feel the full row of the American measured response does North Korea given that they know what that is do they care because they act as if those threats don't mean anything. Well well said and that's certainly the rhetoric that they spout but it's important to note that I think North Korea's government understands give me any full scale war they have with the United States and South Korea will probably 99 percent will and with the destruction of North Korea as a nation state and the unification of the peninsula under a transparent democracy with its capital in Seoul so you would think that the last saying that North Korea wants is a war with the United States and South Korea would also it's also important to note that North Korea's government is a rational state actor even though their behavior many appear are Radek it makes sense to them and they do it in order to get their military riled up and they do it because they are selling these weapons to Iran and Syria countries like that and others and making considerable profit off that and that has not been spoken about alive so the short answer is. Other than rhetoric North Korea will not probably push the envelope too far because they don't want to war the United States what they want is publicity for their military programs and they keep South Korea off guard just solve them what should what should you be doing now the 2 can say at least deal with this crisis. That's a great question and there's 2 things that they can do one of the tactical and one of strategic the tactical thing that they can do is to ensure that their ballistic missile defense is much better within months hopefully than it has been Right now the performance for example of the Terminal High Altitude air defense system or fat as it's commonly called is roughly 65 to 85 percent hitting the target and that's simply unacceptable right I mean u.k. People will not accept that kind of percentage of missiles were aimed at London so this is something that we have to get much better and we have to do it with a sense of urgency that means more funding more training more personnel more r. And d. Except for a and that has to be done now the 2nd thing that we can do and this is what the North Koreans are really scared of is to put pressure on their Alyson financial networks because that's how they pay for their huge military spending and to keep the elite happy that 5 to 50000 people actually support Kim Jong un and those illicit networks have front companies and banks not just in China which gets all the publicity but in friendly countries they have dozens of front companies in Malaysia for example they run money through banks in both Malaysia and Singapore and Africa in places like Mozambique and Angola we have to put real pressure on those and cities so we're not necessarily going after China for example if we name a bank in China or several as we should a primary money laundering concern we're going after illegal activities that are within China's borders the same old for our friends or just Malaysia and Singapore we're not going after those governments we're not even going after people that are mostly Malaysian and we're going after North Korea and assets that are in that country in order to squeeze the North Koreans economically that will hurt them and we did it once but we let off the steam in 2006 with. Banco Delta Asia debacle and that time we had them on the ropes and we let them off we went back to talks with them and of course they went back on every single thing they promised and here we are today and you think the president's threat to cut trade ties with any country the dews of North Korea this called says China has said they will have an in fact I'm not sure that he was actually talking about trade contacts I believe a more definitive a more specific term for that would be he's going to need to he needs to do this he needs to go after the banks that are running North Korean dirty money the corporations that are selling North Korea door you say that they use for their military front companies that are helping North Korea to proliferate its weapons of places like Africa and the Middle East he needs to go after those they know that they have that was not done there in an Obama administration the biggest way to hurt North Korea's illicit activities is going after 2nd party entities not just labeling North Korean enemies because it's with 2nd party entities and all these countries including China that North Korea is making its money illicitly So that's what I believe he means by cutting trade he's not going to cut any of the trade we've got going on the stuff going on with North Korea is a drop in a bucket in China's economy and it's illegal anyway so I think that's what we're likely to see in coming weeks and months the job as well thank you very much Dr Bruce Bexhill that of the University of and and Jeff and Jim the State University in Texas I should say apologies that ripples mammoth suggest the mall in Jim is dim villages of the bed down as people continue to pour across the board it's a Bangladesh to escape days of wides the u.n. Refugee agency says that more than $70000.00 people have now fled to the day as their range of refugees say so just said their homes and light. In short the Burmese government denies this and accuses militants of causing the violence in the streets to. The Bangladesh boarded Now what's the situation like you have the border. Throughout the weekend that even today they continue to come in. Through the land so over the mountains through jungles and increasingly through the open paddy fields there's a river that separates the border. That separates Bangladesh and Myanmar at this point and many are simply crossing the river by boat and then just waiting to come into Bangladesh. As you say more than 70000 range of Muslims already here and you can just get a sense of the crisis that's unfolding on this side because everywhere I look from the temporary camps that have been set up along the road to. Schools temples mosques. Every space has been occupied by them even along the road now both sides of them you can just see men and women very young children some elderly just sitting around trying to get some food many of them look exhausted because they've spent you know 45 days trekking from their villages inside the record stating on March trying to dodge. The Myanmar security patrols the border police and then slipping into Bangladesh where they are being. Demanded and they are ethnically of a know. Very similar people to the people in. Their stable Slim's rather than ethnic similarities I mean this part of the country of course there are ethnic similarities between people on both sides of the border but the. Ranger Muslims have actually been living in rock and state across the border for several tend to lean they go back 3 to 400 years and that's always been the there are more than a 1000000 range of Muslims living in Iraq and it's in their home but they've never been caught probably but. They are often described as Bengali Muslims really of course being the language of Bangladesh by the by the Burmese who are of course people I spoke to refugees I spoke to and asked them what was going on a part of. Apart from describing to me the horrific violence they've witnessed they've had neighbors killed they've had their own relatives killed I spoke to a woman who told me that her brother had been shot dead in the chest they spoke of you know petrol bombs being thrown at their village and villages and homes and people being attacked with knives and machetes but also when I asked them you know what you leave apart from the violence they also said they're constantly being told You don't belong here you are Muslim. You don't live in this this is not your country get out and that is rent them and that's driving them over here and Bangladesh being the biggest neighbor has little choice really to accept them they did try initially to send them back or prevent so many from coming over but. Given the scale of the human tragedy given the amount of suffering very difficult to actually put their practice in place they haven't officially really said anything they have said you know we're welcoming them with open arms but the border police on this side are simply not turning them back did you get a sense when you spoke to the refugees of why or how this leaches spike in the violence erupted because you know this is going on for several years now the problems that the ranges are in Myanmar but what about now what has brought this about now. Well this latest bout of violence was ticked off about 10 days ago when. Relatively recent range of militant groups they call themselves the range of Salvation Army. Apparently led by a very charismatic range of Muslim with ties to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia this group apparently carried out a series of coordinated attacks on $25.00 police both inside Myanmar it led to about 15 security personnel dying and also a number of militants trying to the Yanmar authorities but the total figure of those killed at about $100.00 and that was followed by what is increasingly being assessed by independent of the u.n. As retaliatory violence with the Myanmar security forces army the police and even armed civilians but this mob simply descending on these villages setting them shooting indiscriminately attracting people with knives and literally driving the Rangers from their homes and yes today the Myanmar authorities issued a statement saying that their security forces were basically hunting through these villages to look for the militants who carried out the attack and they. Issued warnings over loudspeakers offering a warning. Residents of the villages did not protect any of the minutes between 5 and to allow those searches to take place now and Mark government put out but from the refugees. The sense you get increasingly at least from their perspective conventional way of verifying it from where we are is that been targeted killings carried out an agency by the security forces. Thank you very much to be. On the border between Bangladesh Memon apologies for the intermittent frequency of the law now the American guitarist and songwriter who will to back away from the bands to. Town forgive me as died at the age of 67 the band hit its peak in the 19th seventy's with its songs such as ringing in the. News that number city down by musical boundaries with a blend of jazz rock complete up and then yes approach to the Grammy Award winning record producer Larry Klein who's a friend of Walter and also. With him as well I do I began by asking him what water was like water was our extraordinary Mark intuitive He was one of. Us that make you just shake your head and think I should just go back in my bedroom and stay in you know even if it was such a credibly smart. Area that I well read Curious a great songwriter someone who would really really thought about how great songs are constructed houses how to do things with. It really was one of my favorite people in the world and I just pretty much started by the you know his passing. Certain people you know you lose certain people and and you just have to resolve yourself that you're just going to miss them every day is a spiral c.t. Down Donna Fagan also said that talked about how smart he was and that he's part of his narrative was the smart musically as well yes he was smart and I always like to say that he was smart I'm a smart way rather than smart in a stupid way he was smart in a way that was not learned by rote. Learning to empirically he was smart in a way where where he had really listen carefully to a lot of music of all types especially jazz but a lot of classical music too and it wasn't classically trained and he didn't. He was never instructed in proper music theory or anything but he knew what he liked and he knew how to move chords in a way that was sounded fresh to him and answer. You know the way that he approached music was intuitively but incredibly well informed do you remember when you. First met him was at the 2000 Grammys. Which was the year but Steely Dan. $1000.00 of the year and they wanted as a big upset and because they were up against a bunch of records that had done much better than their record 2 Against Nature and when their record was announced as the winner of album of the year there was a real bifurcation in the room and you know some people were very kind of very disappointed and horrified because there were a lot of records that were of a more r. And b. That had done a lot better but the Steely Dan record was their 1st record in a long time and it was a fantastic record it was beautifully written and impeccably made and produced and I attended that Grammy ceremony with my ex-wife Joni Mitchell and and we both instantly sprang to our feet and were giving them a standing ovation and you know some people some people did the same and then some people were kind of staring in disbelief and. In the parties afterward I was introduced to him and we were kind of mutual fans of course I've been a fan of Steely Dan's for years and years just like all of the knees issuance of that era to some degree my sense of melody and chord movement was shaped by some of what they had done and he had heard a lot of my bass playing in different records that I had worked on and I guess enjoyed them and was curious about them and so so we struck up a really great friendship started talking on the phone and and such and over the course of time we you know we kind of would get together. They're in there. They're in l.a. Or New York and Eve is living in New York and I was living in the l.a. And and at a certain point we thought well you know what do to bass players do. Together you know musically because you rarely see to be bass players in the same room even and then we decided you know let's try and write some songs together and so we proceeded to do that over a period of about a year and a half I think 2 years and that ended up becoming a record that I produced. That was called Circus money and you. Know with Madeleine Peyroux. After we started writing songs together we discovered that we really loved doing that together and I mean for me it was I can't tell you how fun it was to work with him because for me it was really like getting up in the morning playing tennis with German McEnroe or something you know . You know I really had to do my best just to keep up with his mind he had such a quick Magill mind when it came to songwriting he was just the epitome of. Finely tuned talent coupled with a beautiful and sarcastic sense of humor for me it was a pleasure to write songs with him so at a certain point when I started working with Madeline. Might be fun for us to try writing something for her saying and so we did. And we proceeded also to write some things with her to as a as a 3 as a threesome and. From time to time. Came in on things that I was working on that he had. To do. Just because they just love being around him. And we had such a good time together and I always came out of any musical experience with him learning something and. So he was just a wonderful spirit. I can't say what a great soul he was he's going to be missed by a lot of people. About the Grammy Awards. Scene in many ways I've been to me would myself in Los Angeles and I know you know how. They can they basically jobs can us didn't rush on stage they got their wards and said no it should have been beyond say something. Well you know it was doing exactly that same kind of situation and impact on your mind and then there at that point in the very early days but there was that kind of feeling in the room. Like. These records sold a lot more well that's not what the award is about or does it is an awards voted upon by musicians concerning the level of craft in a specific record and. Not to the other records were were not good records I'm sure that they were really well made records as well but. It was a it was a particularly gratifying award for Donald and Walter because of their track record of the work that they had done previous to which which had not been rewarded with that kind of an award. Steely Dan is dissonance and saying that they don't have an audience of course save So 14000000 albums you did sell that many albums without being extremely popular in your day and these. 2 said instead they are a musician's band in some ways yes because because the level of of crass to. All of their albums it's easy to think of them as a musician. Band. That they made music for musicians but in a way when they started out that certainly wasn't the case and I mean it certainly was certainly music this is my opinion anyhow there was certainly music for people of a certain sense ability it was it was one of the. Few things that you defined during the seventy's that was an example of a literate pop music. This is b.b.c. 5 Live. Divinia Ramos has been international condemnation of Pyongyang following its latest nuclear test the Us says it will retaliate with massive military force if the regime threatens America or its allies and peace will question the Bracks Secretary David Davis in the Commons this week as Parliament returns following the summer break the European Union withdrawal Bell will also be debated on Thursday a 7 hour standoff between inmates in stalls at Birmingham prisons and it trouble broke out after some prisoners refused to return to their cells last night and 8 special edition style was being released to mark the latest movie in the series Real Mail says they'll feature new classic characters alongside spaceships in specially created scenes that's the news g.g. Summons at Flushing Meadows for us with an update from the u.s. Open 8 months after knife attack that nearly ended her career Petrovich it is through to the quarter finals of the u.s. Open following a straight sets win over Wimbledon champion Cup in America Retha It's her 1st top 10 wins it's her return to the top 8 tournament on their face 37 year old 2 time former champion Venus Williams Well Maria Sharapova is out now he with the rest Today sports news is he was in Croft Lewis Hamilton has taken the lead at the Formula One drivers championship for the 1st time this season after victory at the Italian Grand Prix Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel was 3rd in this 3 points behind Hamilton with 7 races to go bath got their 1st win away at Leicester Tigers for 14 years they played the closing stages with just 13 men but held on to take it 2723 teams guys Chris Froome increased his overall lead Espana to 61 seconds after the 15th stage and Belgium of the 1st European team to qualify for next year's football World Cup Romelu Lukaku scored the winner in their 21 big. This is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online smartphone and satellite Good morning Mondays getting off to a very cloudy start as well now there's some mystery around some coastal and hill fog that we cross Southern or Western parts of the you can still bit damp and drizzly in places as well so really not a very inviting start to the day the only place I can say it's quite modest quite muggy to begin the day temperatures around about the mid teens as we go through the day will see another spell of rain move across parts of Scotland and Northern Ireland so that will spread outbreaks of rain into Scotland as we go on through the morning particularly in the West where it's going to be quite heavy not too much of that rain beating down towards the east and southeast just occasional person would be another spell of right also working as a Northern Ireland could be briefly Heavy's its bills East this morning but you know the other from the west it turns a bit dry and brighter this afternoon or not I will keep a lot of cloud in Scotland with further outbreaks of rain that fall Northwest will turn to a chair of a bit as well as here to the it goes on now for plenty of cloud to start with everything for western parts of Wales western coastal parts of England will hold on to a lot of found quite drizzly at times whereas the east you are across a large part of England away from the West Coast there will be some sunny spells of other thing this afternoon and the sanctions will things be quite warm and also humid we could see temperatures as high as 2324 Celsius so the chance of the all for the showers breaking out to quite isolated to the bulk of the u.k. By the human on the ground $1821.00 degrees just looking into tonight we're going to see the right back up again across parts of Northern Ireland possibly southern Scotland Northern England and whilst that will and energy plays out in the North Sea during Tuesday morning rain play southeast puts on Tuesday turns cooler and fresh air a few days of sunny spells and showers quite pleasant in the sunshine but by the end of the week it's going to turn quite wet and windy roads far. From easy to see at. College costs and listen on the streets it's always a. As well these Having grown. The result means the Misael his driver has overtaken Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel to go to the top of the drivers' championship for the 1st time this season well with more on that it's time for 5 lives checkered flag. I'd like. To. Play and we'll can see the checkered flag from Mum's around the scene of the Formula One world championship at the last race in New York before we head off to the Far East and beyond a race that was still when I said by the must say to Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas with the Ferrari of Sebastian Vettel in place to help us analyze the race is Alan McNish moment f one driver and of course our f one common thanks to Jack Nicholson Jack and enjoyable race to commentate on yes it wasn't quite the same as last weekend in Spa with the 2 title protagonists nose to tail battling it out of the front out and both us disappeared up the road Hamilton from pole position has had to fight his way through past stroller not going up to 2nd place but once they got into that they were disappearing basically Sebastian Vettel finishing 3rd for Ferrari he had to fight to the order as well having started in 6th place driver the day for me goes to Daniel Ricardo have I've ruined the end of the puck us with that prediction as you tend to ask me at the end but I'm going to Daniel Ricardo he really poured his way up the order having started in 16th to finish and for the long or short of it is Lewis Hamilton takes the lead of the championship by 3 points going into the remainder of the season. It was a very important weekend for Miss eighty's they came here to the home of Ferrari and showed what they can do yes it was because they've got to get every point that they can in this very tight battle between fight Audi and Mercedes and also going looking ahead Singapore could be a tricky one for them so therefore when they can get the opportunity to take points away from Ferrari they do it but I have to say I was surprised how dominant they wear. Branched off into the distance and it took a little bit time for a photo id Sebastian Vettel in the specially committed I can and to get up to speed and even then it was a very distant 3rd place for Sebastian Vettel back when it comes to a race like this where Ferrari want to dominate income how difficult is it for them to come back and say oh well you know wasn't too bad for us well I think they came into this weekend realistic because the last few years this has been an absolute wash by Miss Avies not dissimilar to what we saw today because they have such a strong engine on such long straights they were always going to be strong here and I'm sure Ferrari came in with a bit of optimism with a few dreams the night before but in reality they were never going to be a Sadie's if all was plain and square and straight forward and that's what happened today on a beautiful sunny day so they'll be disappointed but they know they got the maximum out of it a 3rd place finisher Vettel that's what they would have targeted I would say coming into this weekend and that's what they've achieved and it's going to Singapore in 2 weeks' time where they're where they really going to be that's the sort of race or if they don't win there they'll be disappointed I've got to be honest with you Jack I think they will be a little bit disappointed because of the way that faltered he bought us was able to sail right in the side don't the straight into part of Balika when you overtook him you know I can look rather easy but also the fact that the guy that started the 16th Daniel Ricardo only finished 4 seconds behind Sebastian Vettel at the end of the race as well you know that to me is not necessarily the performance that the would have wanted me Should I had but considering what he had inspired just one week ago when and a circuit he shouldn't have been good out there within a 2nd of Lewis Hamilton at the end of the race Jack Hamilton he's in charge of the championship now isn't he do you see him continuing that way he's. I wouldn't say he's in charge a certainly in the lead of it that's for sure but only by 3 points the next race is Singapore where Toto Wolff told you. You there are a little bit pessimistic about their chances but Saidee so little finishes in front of Hamilton in Singapore and Bettles back in the lead it's certainly good for him that he has the lead in the championship for the 1st time this year there's no doubt about that but I think the next couple of races are going to be tough ones form a Sadie's this one and spark a week ago those are the 2 that they really need to win if they had struck their lines in those 2 then that would have been very costly You can only win the races you can win to a certain extent and these 2 would have been big targets and Sadie's they've pulled them off but the rest of the year there are some tricky races coming up to them now absolutely Allan and how do you rate Hamilton's display this weekend specifically I thought to become the man with the Morse pole positions in history is a special moment to do it with the lap he did yesterday in qualifying in treacherous way conditions but also by 1.2 seconds over the next fastest person who was a lot worthy of that record and then to go off and control the race is only one thing that I saw him do wrong in all 53 laps and that was he dropped 2 wheels and he slightly off as he came out of the 2nd so basically he did everything he needed to be all weekend and therefore he did everything he needed to do last week so it from his point of view he's got 50 points out of the last 2 races you can't get better than that and the 1st driver this season to win back to back Grand Prix absolutely Well let's hear from the man himself our race when I Lewis Hamilton this weekend's been incredible and very very grateful for the support that I have and. Loved driving the car this weekend and these last 2 weekends and I hope that I can get the car at least to be for the next race coming up because I don't see why not why we can't continue to deliver this kind of performance I think it shows how much she enjoyed this weekend as a whole getting that whole record yesterday being so dominant today and finally taking the lead of the drivers' championship just by 3 points but how significant do you. In the championship battle. I don't know I think I need to think about it but you know this is obviously some races to go to so much that can happen but it's the whole year he's been up ahead $25.00 points or whatever it may be and then you know comes down then it goes back up come down so it's a funny it's you know. The plan is to not have it go away again and keep going you know the other day that the direction we're going so but I think as I said it's going to be very tough I think for where it's coming. Down force an x. Ray so. We're going to just have to try and make sure we just squeeze every bit of juice out of this car and every single race coming up so that Lewis Hamilton has done exactly what he wanted to do after the summer break when both of the races now we go through it to Singapore as he said there's a layer of pessimism about that Singapore race but that won't deter Lewis Hamilton from doing all he can absolutely not he did have a poor weekend in Singapore last year never really hooked it up throughout the entirety of the weekend and his team and eco Rosberg won the Grand Prix so I don't know if that will play on Hamilton's mind but it's certainly something worth considering as we as we go to the night trace there is always something a little bit different can always throw things up in the air but I think Hamilton will certainly be competent considering what he's done the last 2 races and and Valtteri Bottas now I think with that 2nd place finish to me he was out of title contention in Spa That was the final nail in his championship challenge and this weekend bit of getting beaten so convincingly by how Milton is well I think that's that's well and truly now we're probably into the 2nd half of the season for POTUS so. Properly in that situation of one driver going for the championship the other driver isn't and they need to start to work with that in the way that Ferrari have been doing if I go to a points Hamilton leads on 238 and he has 3 points ahead of Vettel on Team 135 and then 30. 8 points back on 197 points is Valtteri Bottas Island How important is it do you think that mistake this management make that cool and really back Hamilton I think they're fully backing him but I think it depends whether they meet Valtteri Bottas fully back him as well you know clearly he is the charge they've got a bit of a model Di lemma here because leaves always wanted their drivers to race and that was the Savior in fact in the last couple of years because if he hadn't stole team orders waited the most Dolan boarding championships in 2015 and 16 and so they've got to thank them for allowing them to race but right no they're in a lead in a tricky position and I do think they have to make the call and I think they have to be practical about it and I would suggest that Valtteri Bottas would understand the situation I think without a contract for next year in place he'd do all my sensing he can to help that situation potentially at let's say from the man who finished in 2nd place and enjoy that podium celebration in front of the to face the this is false report to us I'm happy with everything that went quite quickly you know in terms of getting going to be too. Good although the start was difficult some will spin a bit of a battle with Kimi or nice clean racing you got to have him back in the next lap so it's really important to get the truth through to guys quickly and yeah after all it's you know the. Strong today it was pure enjoyment to drive it's one of the bosses said if you have a chance to even speak to them yet because it was a very dominant display by my Sadie's in the homeland of Ferrari. Yeah you know it was amazing today were quick were and it was really important that we could capitalize from from this weekend as a team and get the maximum points but it's only one race. The next raising in 2 weeks and it could be a complete different story so it was important but now we need to turn our backs him to Singapore yes Singapore I've already spoken to say Wolf to Boston he said you know you kind of the underdogs going into they do you feel that you feel you have to go in there with a different mindset I think we definitely are not going there thinking that we are the quickest You know we are going there. Where that is going to be a tough battle with Ferrari and they could be really strong there so yeah Red Bull as well potentially Yeah exactly so yeah not comfortable in the situation we are and that keeps us pushing harder and keeps us trying to bring any improvements say Valtteri Bottas ass in misstate is getting that 2nd place finish even if you look at the construct is Championship Jack that really helps out my Sadie's doesn't it certainly does extends their lead because Kimi Reichen and could only finishing 5th position or another underperforming weekend for writing a new look like he'd sort of found some form again this season but today didn't really have the pace in the early stages was struggling with the rear end of the car so that is a big target for Mercedes to win the constructors' championship we all focus on the driver's championship and there's no doubt that the Sadie's would love to win that but their priority over the last few years has been the constructors' championship even though ironically it's been easier for them in the last few years so that's very very important to them and that's why I think they're so happy with the job that POTUS is doing this year he's doing enough to be there would have on him but not doing enough to be causing friction like Nico Rosberg was the last couple of years so all in all the perfect weekend to misstate He's here in there in Harare homeland. And let's turn our attention to the Ferrari man Sebastian Vettel he finished in 3rd place I mean it all went wrong really for them in qualifying they think I think it went wrong in Friday morning because from Friday morning Jenny they were never actually on the pace they were a little bit off in the long run they were struggling with balancing consistency Vettel said and Friday afternoon just enough the confidence of the car in the couldn't quite make it work when it was raining and they were at least a 2nd off and that seems to be the order of the weekend I think it all went wrong when they built their engine because it doesn't have the the straight line speed of the miss a days where it's where it's so vital here we've seen all weekend the Mercedes quicker in a straight line we saw it in spar as well and the Ferrari team just a 2nd off the pace in in that drive running and in the race again today so yeah it was never going to be a great one for Ferrari they may feel they've underperformed a little but to actually beat Maceda here was always going to be a massive ask yes Abassi of metal getting that 3rd place I mean it's still solid points when you look at it from a championship point yet and he did a good job to come through he started in 6th place on the grid he had to get past his teammate Reichen and he who didn't make life easy Admittedly he also had to get past Esteban on a lot stroll to quick young drivers running at the front of the field for the 1st time he didn't make any mistakes there we think he made one mistake during the during the race itself but apart from that he had a fairly comfortable run to 3rd position he was under pressure in the last couple of apps no doubt about that from Daniel Ricardo in the Red Bull who had a great driver the order but was never quite close enough to overtake battle at let's say from Sebastian Vettel he finished in fair place. There were quicker than us today. By that I think it was not happy but I think we can accept the results we did what we could that's what it's about something was wrong with the car I didn't trust the cars pulling to one side and I couldn't trust the brakes. So I just tried to control the guys. I couldn't push obviously braking is immensely important. Than old brain and then you know you get with your example but I had a gap and I just tried to you know. At the end and it worked so that's the horse and Sebastian just described to me what it's like to be on that podium what it feels like to be part of Ferrari have to try and put it into words for there are no words I mean you can see on t.v. And. You can hear the crowd but. It's unbelievable I mean it felt also had a who was alone up there no disrespect to the other to the others but. This is the perfect proof that Ferrari is very much alive and the legend of forest alive so. Very thankful for you know. The power and. Passion they gave us of the well Jack the reception that Sebastian Vettel got on that podium even though he only finished in 3rd place it was still epic Yeah absolutely magical it's just wonderful to hear that from the the Ferrari fans that flock here over 100000 of them coming this weekend to support and it is it is just a different support because in Formula One you know the British people tend to roughly support the British driver more the British teams to do well but not in the same way that you support your football team whereas in Italy the support for Ferrari is the same is the support for a football team if you want to see a good race you appreciate good racing but if you team doesn't win you're not going to be happy and that's what they demonstrated on the podium with the Lewis Hamilton when he got a few boos from the Ferrari fans but it's like if Everton beat Liverpool at Anfield you can expect the whole home crowd to stand up and politely clap the Everton players of the pitch I just know how it works that's just not how the feelings are with these fans whereas the British fans maybe a little bit less parties than to certain teams and and drivers and you know appreciate a good read. A little bit more but there is not quite that passion and drive they have here in Italy Alan before the race to space is Yarnell a see here of course want to race cool Ferrari what I mean what is it not like the pressure but also the jubilation when you are a Ferrari driver and you're doing well well I've never actually race or. Journey Yes a very specific question but you know I think racing. In many ways I don't think there's many racing drivers when they're young kids don't dream of driving a scarlet Ferrari at some point in the. Ultimately for an Italian driver that would be even more so but when you do your it's a big responsibility as you said you're not just racing for the team you're actually racing for the country and it's the whole country that is talking about it in the build up to it especially here at the Italian Grand Prix as well and you've grace for some amazing friends Allan Toyota is your Audi's Is there a little part of you that thinks I would have liked to have raced a Ferrari in some way well I did on one occasion in a race in the states in the u.s.c. And in fact the car sitting here in one of the big firing line ups. It was pretty cool because when you know the engine singing behind you you know it's made in Maranello and you know that the love and the passion and energy that's gone into it but you know you. And I call and it's a brand it's a little bit of everything but it's the country and it's just a representation for Audi in my opinion is actually just the representation of Italy in so many ways and so it to you know to be on the grid for that Mark and the history and tradition not only on a boat in this place as well he had an Monza and then there's definitely a tingle Moscow up the driver spines he had fatal and Reichen and when they get into the car you even get a tingle just watching the podium and hearing those fans and Jenny you were down there under the podium I mean you must have had quite the tingle is one of the coolest thing. Of a whole year when you get to stand on the podium at Monza because it's so unique so iconic just like towering over the race start finish line and over the pit lane say Lewis Hamilton Sebastian Vettel involved directly above me spraying the champagne stream isn't everywhere and actually at the end of it I looked a little bit like a mummy because I was just. The stream is that had come down from the sky when in the red green and white of the Italian flag right that's enough about the top 3 let's just have a little look down to the top 10 now because. Vettel quite a lot so. Finishing in 4th place that it was right can stroll Perez. Getting the last points paying. Out of those guys Allan who impressed you the most. Daniel Ricardo did a fantastic job dive into the far corner of Kimi Raikkonen was just one that you will remember for a long long time however for me Esteban or Korn was the one that impressed not because of the great qualifying he had but principally because when he got into 2nd position at the beginning of the race his defense from La 153 of line stroll of Philippe and then Sergio Perez behind was absolutely perfect you drove an excellent race an excellent all the way through and I think considering the pressure and the criticism he came under in the last few days as well for collisions with me I was a really good boy I love the way you give me 2 answers even though I specifically asked for one Jack how many people can you name in that one person I'd like well I mean Ricardo did a good job massively do a good job on did a good job Paris did a good job for Stepan did a good job actually Ok You know we've actually did do a good job because he picked up a punter in the early stages he had to make 2 pit stops and managed to get back into the points from either the frustration was almost the Williams drive as you know because stroll and paymaster on that final lap going wheel to wheel for me they were both being very foolish because they were fighting it out between teammates for 7th position with the Force India of Sergio Perez on new tires right behind them they were they were asking for trouble for something that would have made any difference in the constructors' championship and I just thought that was outrageous of the 2 Williams drivers to put to put so much danger over their best joint result of the season so far with Force India car right behind them looking to take places off them made a little bit of a difference that. Was actually quite close to Philippe mass and they're in the driver's title courtesy of his Azerbaijan podium position and then the race here so yes I agree with your the I. I was quite shocked to see them sort of trying to come in the 2nd she came down into lesson on the fighting. Off I'm just glad it boys you know but it worked for Williams and it worked for Force India and both of them incidentally got the exactly the same number of points in the constructors' title because they're dicing for 4th and 5th have to say Clay Williams This will be her last race before she goes off to have a little baby boy and I can even imagine how difficult that was to control while being heavily pregnant quite emotional probably and watching the 2 drivers almost take each other out not good for the blood pressure and people who didn't finish the race who got Van Dorn and along through the McLaren Honda keep up to date with all of the happenings that happened with McLaren and Honda on the b.b.c. Sport website it was the next and the Singapore race and Palmer and Ericsson not finishing another bad luck weekend for Julian Palmer Yeah he was he was doing well in the early stages he had to take a great penalty yesterday was up and 11 I think go to size 11 battling with Fernando Alonso having started down in 17th on the grid but then he made his pit stop and then the car ran into trouble but he wound up Fernando Alonso by overtaking him illegally subsequently got a penalty but Fernando Alonso didn't feel that penalty was enough and was absolutely fuming at the wheel of that wheel of that McLaren and he just wouldn't let it go it was fantastic it was 15 when the incident happened and I think there was a radio message about 35 from Alonso said Where's Palmer we're sorry Syfy we still searching for them for 20 odd laps Palmer by this time in the car and so he was in the pits it was quite entertaining certainly wasn't fun. And the measured direct clearing classified messages that were sort of the issue Well big changes surely soon McLaren Jenny Yeah absolutely watch this space as we said we're expecting them to see where and that the divorce with Honda very soon Honda in the fallout from that potentially going to go toward. Supply them with an engine which. They can go back. For next year but. Because the deal has been imminent for weeks. As a very good description let's just wait and see where. It was. Well thank you so much for joining us for the checkered flag. Have already admitted . I was saving the.

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