Sure meaningful commitment to reforming council tax the finance secretary says he'll hold more talks in the weeks ahead an investigation is underway after a man was fined with what police describe as significant injuries in Inverness the 20 each year old was discovered in Fraser street in the early hours of the Smalling play see anyone who was in the area between half past 1 and 2 o'clock shoot come forward. A new train timetable is to be introduced in some Scot Rail services from today it's clean the changes will deliver shorter journey times more seats and additional services the rail operators recently being criticised for Russia are overcrowding on some routes Well that's in use now here but the sport it's John Barnes and Commander The Scotland head coach Shelly care says our players must avoid being distracted by a media frenzy surrounding the Women's World Cup meeting with England the sides repaired together in the groups these drawn will meet a nice on the 9th of June in their opening game but Care says they have to focus not just on England but also not other group opponents Japan and Argentina as well that is something we were really excited about you obviously our 1st time it would have come in and yeah of course you drawing lines in the 1st game so what we have to focus on is a few grip and not just one opponent so we know it's going to be tough and it was going to be tough and we have every trick by cynics saying that Israel Rangers have a chance to go a level in points with Celtic at the top of the Premiership last launch the same as they take on Dunn de dance park who are top scorer of radio Morello's though he suspended his live coverage on sports and meanwhile the Celtic manager Brendan Rodgers here with an astounding team performance as the champions beat comando 51 to return to the top yesterday 2 people have been arrested for allegedly racially abusing the mother will substitute Christian who is joining the is Ses defeat at Hearts yesterday the Motherwell manager Stephen Robinson labelled the incident an absolute disgrace or Hearts also condemned and Ronnie O'Sullivan and Mark Allen will meet in the final of UKI Snooker Championship with a 37 goals for a 7th UKI title Quelle Alan is looking to the U.K. Crown to the Masters title he won back in January as a sport by come on for well John thank you on chilly out again today with occasional Summers mainly over northern parts one or 2 of which could fall ists hail or sleet However elsewhere plenty of Bright's in something sunny spells are going to talk temperatures reaching between 3 and 6 degrees Celsius bit breezy too making it feel colder still and the B.B.C. Radio Scotland news sports and weather. Sunday morning on B.B.C. Radio Scotland. Hello and welcome to Sunday morning with me Kathy McDonald between now and May Day The French government plans to repaginate former looted artifacts held by their museums and I'll be hearing about the ramifications for museums across the world a new film explores the lives of 2 women who grew up in an Orthodox Jewish community and the Tice that still buying them and Church of Scotland prison chaplain dear G.U.L.O. Elise the Christmas song that always moves are I think the lyrics of this song as powerful and immediate city of the line Mary Did You Know That your baby boy has come to make you you this child that you've delivered will soon to live a you and you can hear more about that and indeed the song a little later in a few minutes writer and broadcaster less leverage it will be joining me after they spy Red Sky July this is morning song. Red Sky July and morning song Lesley ridiculous one of the most familiar names in Scottish political and civic life a writer and broadcaster she was for many years the presenter of a daily show here on B.B.C. Radio Scotland in the past few years alongside publishing books filmmaking and writing regular columns she's doing a Ph D. In the comparisons between the hotting traditions of Norway in Scotland and supported of independence and land reform she's also deducted of think tank Nordic horizons which explores the Nordic model in all aspects of social life and policy she joins me now good morning a warm welcome to early morning to you Well let's start with your connection to the land I know you're passionate about the issue of land ownership in Scotland Why did axis talent and ownership of land become important to you Well it is so it probably goes back to my mother she she came from work and case nice and we at the time were living in Belfast we went for summer holidays every year on a kind of massive pilgrimage where we travelled and one day from Belfast awake and anyone of an age will remember the 89 before there was any dealing I'm going up to the last but for now as to what before there was any bridges over the farts So it was utterly epic as a jar and I and all the family mothers mom's family were sort of Norse oriented in ways they possibly didn't get but they also had a strong kind of opinion about land ownership they were not radical people but were not comfortable going to the castle of May were not comfortable events where the coach is a subtle and was present that was just normal and we spent we had a kind of we measure a tour of picnics every summer. Where we would go to places that maybe our family and families plural were cleared from. Having picnics amongst the midges and Clegg's and so on and the beautiful beaches you know we'd love to but all the time you were breathing in a message which was this is not fair so everything that attached to that place I think became a value to me so that attachment was formed from a very young age and I suppose continued because it one of the most committed campaigns was a community by it it was the base of the Island of a good 97 what did that experience teach you. Believe in people just quite simply because a lot of people at the beginning of the buyer campaign folk of egg didn't believe in themselves that is the killer when you've got these They've had so much battering over the years that you've begun to listen and believe and breathe then the negativity that surrender and to overcome lot is such an extraordinary thing and becoming a friend of loss of people that lived on agc meant you could see that slow process really close up you could see higher nearly every time it was just like an easier to just give up hope to just knuckle dying just think this was as good as it was going to get and to not do thoughts is just Hercules and feet but it the capacity to do that I not I know are no it's not a belief thing resides in every community the tragedy is that very few will realize that about themselves how difficult was it to get them on side because in a sense I suppose you had a stranger and there is a natural suspicion isn't that of someone taking on your coals totally and I remember at the start Allister McIntosh and Maxwell McLeod were 2 other guys who were there at the beginning on Monday white men and I can remember one night when we were there we started talking about community by its very early and clearly most of the community were not ready for that and there was a big push back and I can remember saying to Alice to particularly got to remember in this we are we are midwives not mothers. You know the energy and the pace and the desire does not belong to us we're just bystanders though that's a very good description indeed I want to talk about the tradition in Scotland because that's another cost you've committed to I want you to tell me about the history of hunting and how your own interest in it began well. This probably will still start people is very eccentric but I rented. A hot Glenn cold Glenn bucket which no one will probably have heard of which is of don't cite which is the infinitely more beautiful Strath to Deeside that runs in from Aberdeen so I rented that for 7 years and had no electricity no running water and when my husband actually saw it it was the 1st time he said he had serious doubts about the wisdom of getting married because it's basic is to you know sort of not be ramped our word . But I kind of good because it it was a 1200 foot out the side of a mind to and it reminded me of being you know of Heidi things I've seen when I was young when she came out of her house and the whole world has been a star and you could do to want it you could do what the heck you want to adopt there to it because nothing could be you know worse than the crumbling that was slowly happening to it anyway especially as a woman you could learn to be alone for long periods of time without fear which actually is a pretty useful thing to get if you plan to spend a lot of your life being kind of relaxed in nature which I noticed lots of women particularly definitely with you know there's a contradiction you want to shut yourself away again if you go to involved in very public campaigns like the egg BIOS and so on but yet there was this desire as he say for solitude it is speaks of how basic the facilities where and so on do you think this is something they putting tradition something that would be beneficial to Scotland and in so in what way. No question then having gone to Norway a big discovered what a huge difference there was on that score I mean to tediously the Norwegians have 579000 wooden hearts that's not 1st tomes That's not to touch the fellows that's just wooden hearts Scotland has 500. That means you stand between these guys and a car at the weekend you be flattened they have a reason to leave work they have life beyond the kind of working environment on the 1st home and actually when you speak to people the home that never changes in their lifetimes is the heart you can change your 1st home a lot to suit your job your bairns these sorts of things but the thing that never changes the place you bury or dogs is the house and I wonder what it does to us to not have thoughts because that's also the place where families reconnect in ways where in a much more relaxed ways which is why the tradition continues in the Nordic countries because it's so pivotal and emotional it's like my going north thing for most people at our latitude right in there's a homing mechanism to want to just escape at the weekend to somewhere just a little bit more basic and just do you want I don't sure the people would feel comfortable think I've got a hut there something to grab debate having a 2nd home even if it is that hut Well that search speaks to another massive difference in our in our cultural upbringings It's true I've had to talk about the Ph D. As being about hearts and cup and because in Scotland people when they hear hearts think sheds on that the reason is that huts in Scotland say poverty because the middle class has never embraced it because they couldn't get the plots of land in beautiful locations that folk in every other northern country could expect to have because of landownership so you don't get traditions made out of working class traditions which are as protected as ones that have the whole population embracing it and weirdly perhaps in Norway you're far more likely to have a heart if you're partially know you find it a think tank called Nordic horizons in 2010 that was exploring the ties with Nordic countries and Scotland and of course the lessons that we can learn from their traditions How did you become interested in these connections to begin with. It might have been the hearts it might have been the family connections I mean that certainly was one thing but once you begin to look politically at Britain you begin to realize that well there's there's plenty better ways to run a country to be blunt and you see little countries besides us tediously at the top of every international league table they happen to be the same size of Scotland and it struck me that there was just a mass of ignorance really about the way they operate and as Scotland got devolution and it did just before we set a while before we set this up and what do we do with evolution I mean are we just doing a kind of we put in a kilt on a British system or are we trying to think differently about what underlying values that might be in Scotland and trying to shift ourselves a wee bit towards the US and it struck me that we've got a dearth of other models it's Westminster or not Westminster where sometimes a wee bit of arland amounts just not a wide enough template for Scotland We'll talk more you're listening to Sunday morning with me Cathy MacDonald on B.B.C. Radio Scotland my guest today is journalist and campaigner. Well on that point you've put a lot of time thinking and energy into the campaign for an independent Scotland when did you 1st feel realise this was your preferred future for Scotland. Well to be really honest when the referendum was called it hadn't actually been a big part of my thinking or my life before then maybe because it looked so unlikely that it would ever occur that it wasn't even particularly were thinking about it but other things had taken a lot more of my time so I think I was asked actually on to a B.B.C. Question Time programme and at that point I hadn't really been expected to share Hi I was thinking of voting but the producers but it pretty clear that was expected so over the top I went and this level of civic engagement that came through at that time at the time of the referendum However rejuvenating has had to be known has the experience been for you in terms of the grassroots energy created. As a pretty astonishing experience to have gone through actually because because it has continued at least on the yes side and I appreciate this is difficult because there's a you know immediately one wants to create some sense of balance in these discussions and I can only live one life so I don't know if the same strain on the other but I doubt it but there's just a constant frenzy it in about half the population of trying to find out more about other countries trying to unravel issues they don't understand trying to get involved more in sort of civic things in their own areas sometimes it does seem like a kind of form of communion It's like people coming together in a different kind of way it's not a church obviously it's not a religion but people feel comfortable with one another who perhaps have not felt comfortable in gatherings that made all their presumptions about look in politics before so for sure. I suppose it's true there's also a sort of currency within the yes movement in that people will practically give you their beds you know if it helps you do a meeting move on it's an extraordinary support system now you come across as someone with a lot of campaigning energy and passion but do you ever feel. That this very passion can work against you in a discussion and did I say it because you know women. Perhaps I'm a bit of juice in that I'm not really registering that I would say probably if you were wanting to have a proper career you wouldn't be me for sure but then as I've got older I've realised that was never really my ambition I pursue what's interesting and what I'm curious about and I was like that when I was younger I've not given myself fairly full license to be like that again I'm certain that people who have made other choices about their direction find out a little nerve wracking but that starts the deal that's interesting if you're wanting a kid here you wouldn't be me would you not want to take that on and change that kind of perception you know. I mean there's a there's there's kind of by injuries really honest the sense as soon as I sense a kind of bar injury I'm just I'm far more curious about what's beyond it in almost every walk of life so actually all the way enjoyed being in Radio Scotland people who broadcast will appreciate you spent a lot of your time cooked up inside a very small studio and there's a whole big world out there so leaving gave me the chance to do all the door Dick stuff that I never would've been able to do before and I spend most of my time doing things I'm hugely interested in and very rarely have to sit through a terrible meeting but do you look back fondly on those years in terms of working for the B.B.C. Or indeed thinking about public service broadcasting in general Oh yes I mean it was was brilliant and the amount of time you spend to just directly speaking to people is an astonishing thing especially when you get the sort of response that you do and the ability to speak directly to people and their own accents dialects whatever which again I LOVE thought if you listen to Scotland if you hear. That if you're on the radio if you listen the beauty of the accents of Scotland and the ideas that people are able to put forward is just so wonderful and to be at the center of all of that was a tremendous privilege it's the B.B.C. Has certainly been subject to some strong criticism from many quarters of the political spectrum and recent years do you feel that criticism is justified or do you take a more nuanced view. I'm not sure if it's very nuanced but I do think there's a lot of criticism do it's not I think the thing is it's not enough for a public service broadcaster to sort of be in a sense resting on its laurels or using old formulations of what balance ever means I mean we do not have a situation where Scotland is fairly equally divided on what the constitutional future should be and it's not something that's easy to represent in every program but it doesn't feel like it gets that sort of treatment so I think the baby has got freshen up a bit about what balance means because it surely cannot mean a leveling off so that you're too frightened to get and do even mention the word independence there it's I said it in case suddenly everyone with the takers has to come out and measure Hi-Lo you spoke for or you have some sort of kind of equivalence in every broadcast every single broadcast that means nobody gets enough of a head of steam to make the case they're trying to make a good understand of course that many would disagree with that and I'm sure as a broadcaster yourself who spent many years at the B.B.C. That you know that we as presenters and a deep producers reminded of the importance of balance and fairness in or discussions yes but what I'm suggesting is why not just have a whole half hour with somebody who wants to support dependents have a whole half hour with somebody who wants to continue in the union and let people make big programs with big ambitious thoughts on both sides what happens is that within that kind of daily current affairs set up. There's just small snatches of stuff going on that don't really advance the arguments at all so anyway I just think the other thing I feel a strongly is I seem to spend my life going around in Scotland meeting incredibly interesting passionate people and I'm not sure what I think with incredible stories and shameful difficulties whether it's poverty landownership the lack of local democracy and I don't hear those programmes on babies the B.B.C. I suppose the problem can be too we know that that a time restrictions on own programs and fairy often stuff has to be left out but why when we have the most concentrated form of land ownership in the world in the developed world how there being only 2 documentaries about launder form you know that's just not enough there's got to be some proactive interest in changing the shape of Scotland and if the baby is not on that cart it's actually in the way new channel coming up lately. And hopes of something different the difficulty to me is the editorial control is the key thing and if you haven't seen or heard something that is more testing or or different then it's hard to visualize how you get a more ambitious muscular kind of siren and especially with a budget that to be fair the baby in Scotland is not actually as lavish as many foot Gartside here think we'll talk more you're listening to Sunday morning with me Kathy McDonald I'm speaking to Lesley read it and we're going to 1st music choice and this is. It's performed by Denton Chisholm it's a traditional Irish Chuen isn't it Lesley Well you know I discovered this simply by suggesting this track it's on Duncan Chisholm's far if people don't know don't consciously Here's a sublime fiddler but also composer and I suppose what I most admire about people is is being able to kind of bring something totally new to the . parish on duncan has done not he's done so a series of albums with titles a round the glenn's a random for nash where he was brought up at again a love the up that hits not they the bright lights of the west coast necessarily it's fits african and this case this truck comes from the they album firearm Beautiful Chewton Molly Cleave from the wonderful dog in Chisholm the choice of my guest writer and broadcaster Leslie radio Leslie you were born in England to Scottish parents as we spoke about earlier you spend your teens in Belfast and then you moved to Glasgow in early adult Tud from there you went to study at Oxford and then you did a journalism post Grant at Cardiff so a lot of moving around the country was moving about in the U.K. Affected or shaped you'd actually look on your own and it Yes well it's made me more Scottish because wherever you go you can see similarities now enjoyed everywhere I was but it just wasn't home and it sort of lets you see that you've picked up something. When we lived in Northern Ireland I left when I was 13 although clearly from my accent it sort of drifts but my parents were deeply Scottish You know we lived a rind a Scottish Presbyterian Church we met Scots all the time we watched the White House or club on T.V. We had the Scot my guessing delivered you know they were sort of ex parte Scots the whole time so everything was really about Scotland away kind of just happened to be in Northern Ireland So really you know as you travel around you just begin to realise that there are lots of different stories in the United Kingdom not surprisingly it has made up of different nations and that there is a different Scottish way of doing things which you've got. Do you find that people initially assume you're dying because you've kept the Irish accent despite the fact that you've spent more time in Scotland and in the U.K. It's strange isn't it it's amazing you know just from a linguistic point of view because people people say that accent drifts depending on where they are and I don't know if it's something to do with what we hear or whatever but that's interesting there was never any any decision on your part any inclination was there to bolt to that oh yes I mean when I when I came over here I spoke like this and went up and sounds like that nobody knew when I was finished so the 1st thing out to really learn to do is come darn at the end of sentences but anybody who's from and I will know that the O'Sullivan's are what you never you never really thought I could if I tried hard I could but just don't want to your parents were clearly influential because you talked about the you know the trips up north and how your mother wake was home always home going home what that the principles the one their values in general did you see them as something you had mired or did you go through a rebellious phase and I'm hoping you're going to say Yes well both you know I mean I did sort by into a lot of the values but of course they were you know what was I had saying sort of 17 and 18 then the kind of late seventy's and of course there was a lot of belly and there was a very strong ideas in the family about what girls were meant to do or not meant to do in some respects and yes I stayed out too late got locked out all the rest of the day I did all that. They they were a great couple of people they were actually my dad was was very encouraging of me when I was broke all that my tour of the Unite of the United Kingdom working he somehow managed to record things I was doing sometimes by actually going up with a little some hard little tape recorder up the hills behind Glasgow to get reception from Northern Ireland Dave and it was astonishing high proud he was of the US and Mum was just a never ending font of stories and her way of speaking as a kind of case Naisi and she was colorful Gordo she was colorful she picked up phrases you know in Northern Ireland as well which sort of entered my way of speaking to so I mean they were brilliant Do you think they're Scottish identity in a sense reduce the effect of the influence that religion brought her back to Northern Ireland this troubled past that people talk about Were you in your from that to think or was it something you talked about discussed but did you feel like telling a divot No we never discussed it and that's what talks really was the weirdest thing to coming to Scotland for me to realise I could never have known a Catholic because when you're there it doesn't occur to you you just go to the school you go to me I left I was 13 but I realise now in hindsight I went to a Polish prod girls' school you couldn't get more ghettoized and you know Scotland by contrast was the home of the comprehensive so in social terms Scotland was trying to make efforts to kind of break bridges Dein between people Northern Ireland was was excelling I mean in one sense the number of young people that go to university in Northern Ireland is one of the highest in the U.K. And the number of boys in particular with no qualifications whatsoever is also the highest in the U.K. So it was a place of extremes in all senses in class terms and gender terms and that's the time bomb the ways for Northern Ireland still to do is that nobody knows enough each other enough over all these different divisions do you think that's where your confidence in your ease with people comes from. Could be but I'm pretty sure it's my mother my mother would be like a blooming grey hind out of a truck as soon as she was anywhere and had the mildest curiosity about something she would just walk up to people's total strangers and strays and just start asking them. Astonishingly because I also often felt like you know chase and that kind of white rabbit with her people would respond I can remember in Norway she was fascinated about her so many We islands of all us and all had tunnels and bridges and were connected and as soon as we came off the bus trip back from there she was straight into the nearest bunch of young Norwegians asking them how did they get afford all these tunnels and this is before everyone could speak. But she got an answer and I'm sure that a lot of it's come from her yeah it's all starting to make it so you're listening to Sunday morning with me Kathy MacDonald on B.B.C. Radio Scotland my guest today is journalist and campaigner Leslie I think you probably answered my next question because I was going to talk about the feminist magazine her piece and crimes that you run your assistant editor of The Scotsman and that's when you convince them to run the Scotswoman on International Women's Day for 2 years in a row do you think that the roots of your feminism started off with your mother did it did she make you aware of feminist politics Well she actually she didn't really I mean she was a very traditional normal we Scots woman she didn't actually have very strong political views about anything except land ownership and the business of educating me she was determined I would get the education she never had she left school at 14 So really her life's work was making sure I had the chance to get an education and then have a voice that if you like is the core of feminism it's not having people trapped that would be for both said. As letting people find the thing that they really want to do instead of what their gender suggests they ought to do even today though women are and we hear this daily under represented in politics they're still not making their way in a STEM areas we have the pay gap argument women carrying the financial impact of having children and those most likely to be affected by welfare cuts do you think it's time for another a a fresh look at feminism Yes and it would be it would be Grace I mean I've had people suggesting we should do harpies in Quine's again and I've said well where are the 20 year olds who want to do it because that's what I was then and that's the kind of energy in it but also it really has to be grinded in the generation who are creating their own their own sort of lifestyle their own future and that didn't quite come forward. It strikes me the 2 things that are difficult for totally difficult for women still this issue of child care is just so big and we we haven't really got to the stage. Where we need to be with us I mean it can ice Sabbat meet so many groups over particular from Norway who come over to Scotland and say to them much do you think a full time child can the garden place as an Edinburgh and I know a friend who pays 1300 pounds I want to say that to them they just look like yeah mate translated into Norwegian kroner and say you must have made a mistake and I said No I haven't and then we figure out what the minimum wage for a cleaner would be into skiver she would just manage to pay for $1.00 child in a park in a full time kindergarten place and they just throw their hands up in horror how do you live and you know they say Do women even work and you say Well actually people are struggling all the time so this we must must must change not just for women but for the children and the other thing is personality. I think women are are are sort of worried about showing judgment personality deviating from the norm and not doing stuff which makes them less desirable in the eyes of men and actually being argumentative being a bit thought on what it took to do things your own way some of the time all those things are not characteristics that are associated with the sort of malleable women that I think is still the role model I mean the seventy's were tough for they were tough for everyone though tough for women and you really had to be quite straight in to to make your mark and take people with you but equally it was a great time to make a difference you said there that we had are the women with are the people to you know. Create another person and Quine's a hard piece in Quine's goodness we'll have our ears and clean after suit what's going on I dare you think there's 38 example I mean we deliberately chose the name harpies in Quine's to invite legal action from Harpers and Queen because we had no money for publicity and that was a risky strategy but there's a kind of again Nordic saying ask for forgiveness not permission which is what I try to live my life by too many women are asking for permission and the point is the rules don't work like us you know that's the way you stay really in a position you don't want to be N. But if you don't try to break the rules a bit when you're young it gets guide difficult as you get older So really people have got to be kind of. Flexing their muscles and and doing what they're what they're not supposed to be doing an early stage in life and it seems to me on a could just be grown people women are that there's tremendous forces of conformity at work which make that seemingly difficult but where do you think these women these young women are now I mean do you think they they've given up do you think they're expecting someone else to do it for them or do you think that all of this comes with age and experience in many ways no I mean I've got you know great great confidence in every generation and and I suspect people are looking at it and thinking Well I mean to be honest there's no there's questionable point in having a paper Mike as a knife so that format is mostly one that's dead a digital one there's plenty of platforms around. But yeah maybe just take somebody this extraordinarily bloody minded which I certainly was at the beginning to just absolute power through kind of the hesitation and say we're just going to do this and suddenly when you do that you discover there's an awful lot of people waiting to coalesce around an idea so if there's any gal's listening that really want to do this you know what to do well given that we've been marking a 100 years since a women were allowed to enter political arena would you be interested in becoming a parliamentarian no. You know why do it. After all that I think is I am in the political arena you know what what I think people need to recognize is that the political arena is much larger than formal party politics I had a brush with thoughts when I was at university which which sort of left me. Kind of soured for life from the constraints they are things that are imposed on people when they get into political parties it strikes me somebody has to be outside the camp and be beholden to nobody so that you can be as critical of the government the S.N.P. As you can of other people when they you know when you feel that you have to be so maybe the business of being a journalist. Also embeds us and knew that you had perhaps working for the B.B.C. For so long that you can touch really take sides in such a naked way but I think that's probably more useful than being a representative of. One a quite day Leslie have important her family and friends indeed on a busy day I suppose in terms of keeping a retort and supporting Well night stepdaughters are in different parts of the world at the moment one is no closer in Aberdeen. My friends are absolutely very important to me though they are actually scattered around the place a lot as well so I find myself having to travel around an awful lot kind of meet people but I'm very happy where I live opposite Dondi which is a city that I've always been fascinated by and it feels like home in a way that it's kind of a bit like the Belfast of the East Coast in many respects so that gives me a lot of pleasure so does actually being very close to nature this is something I hadn't realised mattered so much to me strangely until very recently that keeps me to be honest I have a walk or a cycle for an hour every day Lucky me. I'm unemployed all but I can walk for Iran for a day and every step of the walk is just Reem batting in my eye and in my mind's eye that we're partial of a bigger world and that's our big job to protect a lot of thinking it's done while walking. Leslie thank you so much for joining us this morning but I'm not going to let you go before hearing your last music choice Blackbird by Martin Bennett and it's a terrific check from a great album The tell me a little bit tell me about why you've chosen this track. Well Martin's part of a big part of a totally exploding music scene in Scotland and I always feel so sorry for people who are not recognizing any of these names because it means you haven't seen these people live sadly Marcion died and the way you go to hear him die is through the extraordinary efforts that were made after his death by his friends to put an orchestra together the great orchestra which is 89 all surely brilliant artist in their own rise who are coming together to perform this music which when you hear it live is like having and I know all gigs are like this but having the the energy and history of Scotland just plugged into your bread practically it's so partial and it always feels to me and you'd hear this in this track that Scotland here is portrayed as like a massive shadow buying of a thing what we've in its way along a difficult track but always returning back to something melodic and powerful thank you so much has been an absolute pleasure Lesley thank you Catherine. The powerful black birds by Martin Bennett the final choice of my guest today writer and campaigner. And if you missed any of that interview you can listen again . Or check out our page on the B.B.C. Radio Scotland website and while you're online do check us out of Facebook you can also follow us on Twitter at B.B.C. Radio SCOTT Now here's a fascinating program coming up on Radio Scotland this week still listening after 11 when I'll be talking to the presenter Jenny Fagan about it for almost a 100 years deep in the west moving countryside such an entire village devoted to psychiatric care at the plan for the hospital was to create a therapeutic space author Jenny Feig and tells the story of buying or village hospital real people live their lifes on these words they meet friends they had. Years from those who knew it best there was something vital and caring about the place and explores the mystery of over 800 unmarked graves in absolute disbelief that there could have been as many people as this dreams of the asylum choose the from $130.00 on B.B.C. Radio Scotland. A new film called disobedience centers around 2 women Ronnie too had left the Jewish Orthodox community she grew up in and become a modern secular woman and S.T. Who remained the be lovers for a short time years before it gets father a highly respected rabbi has died prompting the return and her sudden presence complicates further what she left behind Here's a short clip of her arrival meeting again her childhood friend of it and you come straight from. Yeah. Yeah I'll go to a hotel. As people are here to one of the. You know. Yet. How did she die we heard a clip there from the film disobedience which it captures perfectly some of the threads of awkwardness and suppression that run through the film joining me now to discuss it is right at Elon Gulf words Good morning welcome to the program thank you tell me what you thought what you made of disobedience I was expecting to like it less than I did. It's I had read the novel and there obviously changes between the novel and the movie but the film itself it did take me in it did it did lower me and partly because it's very easy for people to use extreme the ultraorthodox as a target and also to imply to people who don't know that's what the Jewish world is about this was a much more nuanced portrait that I was expecting it did look at the complexities of a small. Very self-contained very intense community but at the same time it didn't treat it as hell on wheels there were things about it there were unpleasant but there were other things that were really quite empowering and they looked at both sides of that no you don't background as a liberal Jewish one it would you say that the closeness and all the post the tips that some of the negatives that can come with belonging to a close community did you recognize that was that a strong sense of that in the film there is a strong sense that even though ours was also it was a close community it was a friendly warm environment but not a closed community it was on an island in space or time people had connections outside it and yet there is a feeling where people who are your parents friends are almost like relatives it's a place of honor and to use there are kinds of close family relationships that can be used expressed in one word and yet ish that take about 3 sentences in any other language we have names for relationships that wouldn't exist outside that's interesting because relationships come up very much within disobedience not the most obvious one between Juanita and a steep but in fact we're everyone belongs because there's a sense of no one belonging anywhere this old quickness that we sense right from the beginning and really neat leaving returning trying to fit once again into the community she left behind and I suppose in a sense the film is trying to portray accurately all over with that encompasses. Within a religious community and particularly the issues their own sexuality for Anita in a city Well I think for me she really wasn't trying to 15 she was just trying to do what she had to do as somebody who was there to as as a mourner for her father she did not expect to come back and find her ex lover and somebody who had been virtually a foster brother who'd been her father's protege and expected successor not only to still be close together but to have married each other. And I think that was obvious in many ways that we saw the gulf between Jenny said and I suppose that really points to how difficult it can be for anyone to leave a community any community whatsoever did that resonate personally with you not quite in the same intense way the level of rejection she had had was quite brutal she had been as the rabbi whose daughter who went away changed her name changed her whole way of life she'd rejected them as intensely and perhaps more extreme we've made rejected her and they returned the favor by forgetting to not forgetting the Glick being to put her name in the obituary said he died without issue it's interesting that they knew we older men who wrote the book on which it's based she's talked about the Jewish Orthodox community where she grew up say having many positives that as we spoke about the social connectedness the safety in particular because I wonder ho the Jewish community will take to this film what they might make of it as a portrayal Well part of the thing is there's no such thing as a single Jewish community opinion it is such a broad Kirk people perhaps who don't know a lot of people don't realize that to use a parallel from say the Protestant world the spectrum goes from the Unitarian Universalists and Quakers at that end to the we freeze at the other end and I think you could have almost written the thing to take place somewhere in the Outer Hebrides and. No less delicious looking kosher food but at the chillier weather but the same things of some people being the thought police and others loving somebody and being with being more accepting or at least warmer towards them I'm glad you mentioned that because I think that's hugely important is that if you belong to a community that some people would would they describe as being almost closed but not exclusive there is that sense that sometimes one is more tolerant one is more understanding of other communities that observe religious mores if you like and there for one understands it's not looked upon as something old it's not what some people would say it's it's weird and I wonder if that is something that you know we need to see more all understand more of if we are soo I guess understand and be more tolerant of other faiths I think that's really important and I think it's true also that there are so many nuances and it's not just a spectrum inside a whole faith world but it is also it is a rich complicated culture with a whole lot of individuals some of whom will be nasty Clyde being and since Oreos and other people will be incredibly inclusive and tolerant and respect and their love for each other will come through there were very attractive sides of that world it wasn't just presented as here we have these 2 lovely young radical heroines trying to liberate themselves from this ugly world where people get burned at the stake isn't that that was one of the reasons why I think don't it came across as a very interesting character the travels that take place in that film are just not that of 2 romantic era when this trying to escape finally the Scottish create International Film Festival has been running this past week and finishes a today do you think that depictions of. The screen have become more nuanced as you said or at least less predict. As disobedience tries to explore the tensions of the everyday I hope so I mean I am old enough to remember when if you were going to have a lesbian character on screen she was going to have to wind up dead or being a very wicked hadnot mistress there was never originally a sense that you could be positive and I've witnessed that evolution in films and we've still got a long way to go where it is just normal but there is a lot more complexity and color in the story now than there was way back when some of us were just little baby lesbians. Golfer thank you very much indeed for joining me this morning and the film disobedience is on general release 9 after 11 the author Jamie Fagan captures the stories and history of performer Ed in press silent and with the French government talking about returning artifacts originally looted by its colonial forces in Africa what could this mean for museums around the world all that after the news on digital media $92.00 to $95.00 and each one will be dealing with B.B.C. Radio stuff. With the news to leaven o'clock AM amount of insulin to resent me is suggesting the U.K. Would truly be an uncharted waters if M.P.'s vote down her bags that deal in a newspaper interview the prime minister says to the backbench is planning to vote against the agreement and choose the risk of bringing about a general election and greater uncertainty dining street again insisting the vote will go ahead following when you'd speculation it could be delayed academics and researchers from the E.U. May be leaving their jobs because of banks said That's according to the Scottish Funding Council which says there is anecdotal evidence you stuff that Scottish universities are already finding new posts here's our education correspondent Jamie McMurray for Scotland's universities are keen to stress they want to maintain links with E.U. Universities after Bracks it and will continue to well. Used riddance and academics the Scottish Funding Council report set certain detail what the E.U. Country means to Scotland's colleges and universities more than a 5th of teaching and research staff furry you nationals on the report speaks of anecdotal evidence factors such as the potential risk to free movement been some may have already left their jobs and Monday a delegation will visit Brussels to discuss the importance of safeguarding Scotland's research base and links with European institutions it will be led by the Scottish Government's higher education minister Richard Locke aired detectives in New Zealand investigating the murder of the British backpacker Grace Malayan her fund a body she was $22.00 and disappeared in Auckland 8 days ago the body was discovered in an area of forest close to the city a 26 year old man is to appear in.
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