Transcripts for BBC Radio Nottingham BBC Radio Nottingham 20171003 000000

Let me use. That. As a p.c. For me if you want to talk on 5 live as we're joined by the B.B.C.'s local radio stations across the u.k. Local Radio National I'm Roger shock the main news on for a volley of us police found weapons in the home of a Last Vegas attacker and in sports a fast senior call of the Tottenham scary wings to England's injury hit squad and on the 5 wide web site reporter Kieren Tracey starts his account of weeks what felt right color fighters of Manchester. City's b.b.c. 5. An hour for the b.b.c. News place investigating the last Vegas shooting and found more weapons at the home of the attacker 64 year old Stephen Paddick opened fire at a music festival leaving at least $59.00 people dead and more than $500.00 injured he then killed himself 18 thousands of rounds of ammunition and explosives were found at his home the mayor of Las Vegas is counting Goodman. It's a very difficult time while the sun is shining in Las Vegas it is a very dark and black day Tobar 1st 2017 will be one of the darkest days ever and hopefully never again police don't believe Patrick was linked to any terrorist group Kimberly brusk campaigns for gun control in the u.s. I've seen what a bullet can do to a body and I know how gun violence rips apart a family every single day in the u.s. We have 321 people shot we doubled that number just today and we can accept that as normal as does not happen in any other country in the world President Trump let his silence at the White House earlier he'll visit Las Vegas tomorrow and other news on what's a ministrations have called a very sad day almost 2000 Monaco airline staff have been laid off the has gone into administration affecting hundreds of thousands of passengers some who already brought planes are being chanted to bring them back this woman only found to have flight was canceled when she arrived at Gatwick Gables a leaflet to say no our flights from Monaco being canceled so we're just panicking then what do we do everybody's up to flight c. There and everywhere and it's cost me another $666.00 pounds to get to but I want to go today then afford to pay $1500.00 the Catalan leader Carlos pushed him on the says he's not planning planning a traumatic split with Spain officials in the region say voters overwhelmingly backed independence in a disputed referendum almost $100.00 people were hurt a Spanish police tried to stop about English teacher have a Catena will be taking part in a region wide strike later in protest of the violence are not the kind of person the main street. But they think that. There has been a change I'm really sorry that Mr c. And I'm sure that this is change the mindset of our society the husband of a detective who was found dead in a lake has been charged with her murder. Was 39 was discovered in the water at point and park in Cheshire on Friday down McCartney who is also a Greater Manchester officer is to before magistrates later the home secretary Amber road will announce new measures later to deal with online radicalization she's proposing a new criminal offense of streaming terrorist content with jail terms for up to 15 years. And the American rock star Tom Petty is believed to be seriously ill in hospital the Heartbreakers front man is reported to have been found unconscious at his home in Malibu in California after suffering a cardiac arrest let's get the sport there with shock that Harry Winks is being called up to the injured senior squad for the 1st time the Tottenham midfielder replaces Fabian Douthat and Phil Jones who have withdrawn with injuries ahead of England's World Cup qualifiers with Slovenia and Lithuania Meanwhile former England striker Rickie Lambert says playing at a World Cup was beyond my wildest dreams the x. Liverpool in Southampton forward has retired from football at the age of 35 former Arsenal striker in Rights has told 5 Live Burnley boss Sean died she is capable of replacing Aston Vanga a may even be pushed into the England job one day that she has twice won promotion to the Premier League with the clerics who are currently 6th in the table and Barcelona president toes that Maria bottom male says playing Sunday's match against last Palmer's behind closed doors was one of the most difficult decisions I've made possible in 3 nil after a request to have the game postponed amid the political unrest in council Onya was turned down this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online smartphone and stop at the weather rain clearing in the south overnight with close pals meaning it will be a chilly want some showers are likely towards the north and northwest as for Tuesday as a whole most places will be dry and breezy though some patchy rain is likely in western parts after a sunny morning it will become cloudy in the afternoon b.b.c. 5 Live I man of honor and on Thursday 5 Live Daily has been given rare access to. The government secrecy intelligence monitoring organization be inside the d.c. H.q. Home in Shelton and finding out what it's like to work there how the staff friends and families cope with them working there and why they're so keen to attract more female employees my own dad is a proud name but they can't tell anyone if you go much James Bond in children is fascinating because full of our stuff is sitting that pointing out all the mistakes I live daily with me and of our Thursday from 10. On am and f.m. Around the u.k. On. I'm Raj Shah and were up all night. They queued round the block to their Vegas University Medical Center so many people eager to do what they could for the shooting victims neither taking bookings to the 8 blots so many that you can't get one until at least Thursday or Friday people stood for a minute's silence at the u.s. Capitol in Washington taking their cue from the president but some said they couldn't be silent thoughts and prayers are not enough brought a firebrand Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren Not one more moms and dads will bury kids this week and more sons and daughters will grow up with parents we need to have a conversation about how to stop gun violence we need it now she. Vigil is just starting it was Vegas City Hall for the victims of Sunday night's my shooting and at least 59 people I know know to have been killed and the current injured to a tally is 500 and $29.00 a lone gunman opened fire from 2 had tower rooms on the most Vegas strip the Mandalay hotel on a large crowed of many thousands attending a country music concert Nevada's coroner says that talk could be greater yet our correspondent regime Levi do you nice and I just sent this from one of the hospitals treating the victims of this hospital here more than a 100 people arrived in the early hours of the morning now this is a level one trauma center here so dealing with the worst of the injuries but I spoke to one surgeon who spent more than 15 hours treating patients he said it was controlled chaos in the waiting rooms he described it as a war zone said that there were a range of injuries now most of the injuries all gunshot wounds but all the hospitals have also been treating people who were trampled as they try to get out of the concerts all those who were trying to jump from the fences and were injured as they fell. Well the gunman has been them by police as 64 year old Stephen Patrick is understood to have turned a gun on himself as the police raced down the corridor to find him more than an hour after the shooting started. Speaking at a news conference a day off for Mayor Carolyn Goodman uplifts Vegas this was a truly tragic day for the far city this heinous crime this maniac could do such destruction to so many people it's a very difficult time while the sun is shining and Las Vegas it is a very dark and black day and as I'm sure that was said to over 1st 2017 will be one of the darkest days after and hopefully never again saves us alike as chairman of the Clark County Commission which encompasses was Vegas and this is one individual a lot of hope as we call them that was in the Mandalay Bay hell bent on perpetrating an enormous amount of hate and violence and destruction of our community and he did that it rained hundreds of bullets rounds of ammunition down on innocent folks he ran a town a commuter responded with an enormous wall of love biting back shows the true nature of our community we take care of each other we fight together as opposed to the sheriff this morning and we're down here we 'd were running out of blood very quickly we had you know 59 casualties and 570 people being currently treated we put out a call for blood and we've been inundated with people donating blood there's an 8 hour waiting 5 in order to get into all of our soldiers can get an appointment this week if you want to make an appointment we set up a Go Fund Me account to try to help some of these individuals call the Las Vegas Victims Fund there was some expenses with transportation for families or accommodations or what started it mid-morning I says probably 45 o'clock 6 o'clock in the morning and we just passed 1600000 dollars We've raised from 1518000 individual dollars. Steve says like talking about communes his response well someone who's very aware of that is the editor of the newspaper the Las Vegas Sun Adam Candy is with us hello Adam alone in our condolences listening to journalists from Las Vegas I know it's been very difficult on all of the because it's as your city it is. And while your condolences certainly appreciate accepted on behalf of many you know we as journalists certainly haven't perspective the last. That so many people are going through right now I'm just trying to do the best job we can of of representing that but you know we've known in Las Vegas for a long time that we were city that could be a target for this type of attack can we pray that it wouldn't be Fortunately I came home today listening to one of these most recent news conferences I think the sheriff was actually saying that he couldn't think of a city that was probably better equipped than Las Vegas that had practiced so many drills. Didn't mean anything by that. Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department is very used to dealing with large crowds that need to be dispersed quickly. That they deal with a lot of chaos they do Israel and the University Medical Center which is the level one trauma center that dealt with the most serious of the victims for from the concert had just recently drilled for exactly an event like this using someone who had been through the tragedy in Orlando to help guide them so I do think the city was well prepared but as the coroner said you can be prepared and then something like this happens and you're never as prepared as you would like. Looking at the windows flapping I mean the video now of the Mandalay had tell shows these 2 windows which he's apparently hammered out in the curtains are flapping through the windows. Where he shot from and yet we understand that it took police and swat teams an hour and more to actually get up there is that been sufficiently. Understood yet I think that time frame might be a bit exaggerated from when the shots were 1st recorded to when they finally got to the room I think they had pinpoint that this was coming from Adelaide but of course you're thinking of property with more than 40 stories they have to go sort of room by room and figure out where this person might be so I do think it's tension will be paid to that in due time. You know I I happen to have worked at Mandalay Bay The different life and. You know there are no balconies in those windows not open he had to hammer that window open in order to have the opportunity to shoot and I don't know how widely it's been reported but it's a good 500 yards across Las Vegas Boulevard from Mandalay Bay a lot where the concert was being held which when the concert is not there the rest of the year it's just a lot can you can you just set the scene for us just a little bit more about how that would have looked I mean we've seen the close ups of the stage and so on but can you can you help us to visualize it. I'd be happy to I think when you're there is that the concert goers and they're focused on the stage and you see the Mandalay Bay in the background I don't think you get a good sense of the scale of how far away it is that was a little bit back from Las Vegas Boulevard sort of on a curve on the street. Almost abuts the airport in town the middle a day especially with the tower is where the gunman is set a good distance back from the street because the hotel towers sit behind the casino some of them do and so my 1st thought when I heard this that happened was no way was the man able to shoot from Mandalay Bay all the way across this lot and I think that gives you a sense of the weaponry that he had available to him and when you hear those rounds being fired Austin understand that it took something of that power. To cause the destruction that he did and the police have not yet fully specified the armory how they haven't talked about the guns in specific No And we have not gotten specific models or descriptions but the closest you've received was to know that. 10 of the guns that were in the middle of a hotel room were rifles many of them did have scopes with them there was at least one handgun available when the gunman's house was searched in the Miskito which is a community about an hour's drive north east of Las Vegas another 18 in guns and I should say Tennant's firearms were found along with some explosives and as well as more ammunition. And just just. Well I sat lost for us because there's another house involved now isn't there to not just his so there is such a mosquito. He actually owns both of the houses in question to here the Las Vegas police describe it they're ultimately working for Seems they're working the concert site across the street from Mandalay Bay The 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay where his group was the House and the ski which I just described and a house in the area of Reno Reno Nevada is a 7 hour drive north of Las Vegas almost on the border with California about 3 hours from San Francisco by auto. And so the police last we had seen were massing swat teams and other equipment by that house in Reno and were getting ready to take that one as well and they have in the case of that they find an arsenal in the house that mosquito. They have they found 18 firearms they found nitrate. Which is commonly used to be explosives they found some on specified electronic devices as well as more ammunition we had one of our last August some reporters up in the ski today who had an opportunity to speak with some of his neighbors and those who live on the small cul de sac with him and it was unfortunately something we hear too often and he seems like a nice guy no one would have expected this and. Of course we have have you know and you also would have got this from his brother as his brother has been speaking out today. His brother who lives in Orlando Florida has been speaking we've been attempting to track down some of his other siblings as well without success thus far but I think you could see in those clips the world of it his brother. The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police are still looking to speak with a woman described as his girlfriend Marilyn deadly who is believed to be in Tokyo Japan right now she was at one point believed to be in the Philippines and so they do not believe she was involved in any way in the crime but she's still a person of interest because they'd like to speak and just one story that may very well be apocryphal but what was the story about some woman going through the crowd or something and telling people you're all going to die so. We're always reticent to place too much too much credence in reports that come from eyewitnesses who just experienced a great trauma but there was a report from a young woman who attended the concert that there had been a woman of unspecified description who was causing a ruckus and was ultimately exacted from the concert grounds and according to this eyewitness had said you're all going to die tonight but of course that that's one eyewitness that we have not heard any corroboration of that story sounds a bit like witchcraft doesn't it Adam if if we may we're going to leave you to get back to work but I very much hope that we could perhaps talk to you later on that we wouldn't be too much of an imposition. I would be glad to join you at your convenience thank you so much Adam Candy joins us the editor of the Us Vegas Sun Well let's talk about. People who actually saw what went on and who were there here are just a couple of the stories of what happened when the gunman began his assault. There were people hiding underneath my car for cover and there was. A gentleman that was shot and he said can you help me and so I put him in my car and I had like 6 people in my car people which shoot running just to get away and we just hit the ground and just lay there and hang on to each other and it was quiet for a bit and then fired another 30 rounds and then quiet and then what we were doing was every time he had stopped he was reloading we had gotten up and started making our way towards the fence and then you start shooting again and we hit the ground. John driver was one of the production crew for the Country Music Festival a big star just taking the stage and she told 5 Live what happened I was trouble with the baby Sherri yards behind the stage and we but just like full extent we saw that there were Charlotte's going off and we all stopped and looked at each other we all said the same thing at the same time we didn't know if there were going to be some words tonight we will concede try that in our business we just kind of kept really not realizing that it was gunfire at check and there was a whole lot of work to keep going and going and then we started thinking oh maybe somebody in the audience has been lighting off fire crackers 'd but then we started thinking maybe it's a safety issue so we get stopped in time for that and wallet time doing it immediately was grabbed by security that said everybody these children there's a shooter like shooter everybody ran out trying to drive or we're joined by Nicholas James who was elsewhere on the strip just going into hotel I believe Hello Nicola Hello. Tell me tell me a little bit about yourself I believe you were in Las Vegas home on vacation. Yes And again she was my son and his suspect doesn't and I met him and you from Scotland Sunday Wales Strangio. Well especially apologise to you and the entire Welsh nation that case but you have just. Given Jared something that you never thought you witness on holiday I must say tell us tell us where you were when you became aware of of what was happening at the Las Vegas park there at the Country Music Festival we were. Just on the bridge which is crossing the mange that 2 hotels that some months and they say we should March to talk to some higher classes or something and I quickly my husband said that's not bias practices into ATSIC. He's exorcise the whole I'm in a minute or 2 and there was no response and fire just seemed to become an call from one area. And can I can I just I don't know if there was that was the man to lay it on to your right to where you're looking at where where were you in relation to the man the way it was it was to my right so I was. Just up the track to hotels that directives I think that Excalibur will tell so what I'm getting to is you wear and the line of fire as far as you could God or is that right yes part The far as I can gather we were we were saying that part. Of the higher continues and he was is extremely healthy and it was pretty well much continuous. Divisions he services were very quick to respond they were at least being teased because it was imminent. It's quite common that French and. A lot of consensus and then I'm saying that there was there was a shooter and the head in this way could change lives and I said I mean could you hear people screaming and things like that yes yes the voice initially they've often just 10 come from now when one of us has been. Invited to the hotel along with many others. Bunting we're inside the hotel after the scene to really. To to. For having been there and then I'm a total impact of it because people have started to come into the hotel and not just the. Down the stretch but to me and to the monthly a good time. And to continue. You know shock and. I said did you get anybody coming into the lobby who needed medical attention I I didn't see anybody I didn't see anybody sneezes next with tension when I was helping people in. I was very interested that you know your husband who's x. Of us has thought the major way this was automatic fire he said and as many words that he said that's that's an automatic weapon yes. Yes Yes because it was incredibly fast wasn't it. Fast I'm very continuous. And again before you came and did you could you see people you I must imagine were probably 3 or 400 yards away where you could you see people falling Could you see people running Could you see what individuals in the crowd were doing. And I could see prison setting up the strip to move to more for. A great See going to the hotel to see enough masses of people coming into the hotel or who have a splendid time with people coming up from home on the concept bus not the people who are staying in the Mandalay where a lot done and fight they ended up being a lot done for Tanaris what happened to us we left town is that all the time we were in the casino far heavier than I can appear to pay money from a high security guard screamin is a killer get fairly efficient car owners on its way and. Have a body that was really scary as of the time of the slowing down and so for me it seems like all 60 minutes is probably only 3 at a time this is a slow guess. About 20 minutes later then we were told that I could but he needs to go back to their homes and if you live from the hotel you need to go negative about threesomes with a lock down because type I was before we were allowed to leave. But this would have been the middle of the night by that time yes to just go anywhere. So no we need to say it is too stressful having cousins on inside if you want to anyway when we last and we went fire I can invade from this album to a whole hour who have been left with respect to the mines and they. Don't that needs to go straight home whom we went live to say and I need public have us within the law. And have you been have you been I know about today have you seen. The place where you are last night have you formed any different ideas solve it you've seen it in the daylight. Yes This morning there is there is heightened security education was the hotel no cars are allowed when the Taliban here with us in search. Will be back on to the spiritual is that earlier nocturnal I thought I was there or what have you how could that happen. In Season real. Peace because both sides now will have lost hope you can see the wins over that Miles this was a big price and it was a lot just to do what he did. Well as we said Nicholas can't be what you and your husband thought you were coming to a toll. It's going to be a very different and your holiday but you've been so kind to talk to us tonight and we hope that you have a good night's rest thank you thank you indeed McCloy James from Swansea who with our husband was in Las Vegas on the Strip last night when the fighting started well let's talk now to Geoffrey slot Geoffrey Slotnick works in risk management and that's an interesting field to be in he works for a company called cetera Cohen a Hello Jeffrey fellow and actually shorter con is my complete setter con is your company well. Graduations know we've we've had I mean we've had from people who we had there from somebody who was on the Strip last night on this a Las Vegas of a open place I mean there's a tremendous amount of coming and going and so on and yet you've got someone who was able to get an untold number of weapons very very long weapons and the long rifles oppen to his room without the hotel security actually noticing. Is that unusual. Absolutely that's unusual but I mean think about what people pack in their carry on luggage going into an airport. It's amazing what you can pack in a bag you know it's not like the gentleman walked with a tactical ax you know with Mark firearm you know knowing where as he walked in on a couple of days with them with golf bags nobody probably would have given any notice at all probably not and I'm I would imagine that's what occurred that's what did occur you know he was in the hotel from Thursday through Sunday and was a resident of a community he lived was approximately 80 miles away from. Us at the. We always I don't know very much about the. How the police actually got to him Do you have any any better ideas or was some suggestion that that actually it was something to do with the fire suppression system that eventually kicked in yes that that wasn't a fire suppression system but. A smoke alarm started sounding in the room and that was how they are located. So and in that case he was firing off so much then surely the smoke triggered the smoke alarm that would be a reasonable supposition Absolutely I listened to the audio from the attack this morning. He was rapidly changing magazines there were there was a brief pause. Between reloads but I heard 4 distinct reloads. 44 and. How long did the assault last you know I don't know specifically I haven't I haven't seen that information. We're also a little unclear as to how long it took the police on the swat teams that well armed swat teams to actually make it up to the floor that was the 32nd floor that he was actually on it was my understanding it was approximately an hour after the 1st shot was fired that there was a formal law enforcement response at his door. Why should it have taken so long I mean what about hotel security would they not have been able to locate him sooner than that. Well may have I mean it would be speculation on my part as to what what security procedures the hotel had in place but more importantly there are technologies available that could have significantly assisted and reduce the amount of life lost for example there is a Shot Spotter technology that has the ability to locate by a latitude and longitude. Where shots are emanating from and when integrated with other physical security features such as cameras it can literally turn the cameras to the location that the shots are coming from I was looking on the video I couldn't see any I thought you'd see muzzle flashes given that he was firing so fast I couldn't see it me again it hasn't come out yet and this is just speculation on my part but it is very possible that he used a suppressor which would also count for the increased smoke in the room on a suppressor we would call a silencer on the end of the gun right that's correct yeah. See these the spot shots are a technology as is not in general use then by American police departments as it. Well this is something that was developed after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School by one of our national laboratories and it's currently being managed by a private firm who has commercialize the technology. The thing is you know it's just like anything else security equipment is an investment there may not have been aware that the technology exists. You know it's it's fairly new technology. And then of course coming up with the funds to install it and. There are no there are no easy answers he is evident we've talked about the impact of the. Dreadful carnage at them on test a concept needed to be done perhaps for the security of future concert goers would suggest that anybody would would behave any differently about having another festival of $20000.00 people overlooked by always tells in Las Vegas Well you know of course you know we're great after the fact planet Yes You know we learn from each experience and you predict your future by studying your past so I'm sure there will be a lot of a lot of lessons and hard lessons that will be learned from this event as what was learned in Manchester or at the recent bombing in France. Of a theatre a concert music concert. You know these things. The mind of man can sometimes be. Very difficult to predict mental illness has no boundaries and. Many times people want to go to the tool that was used but you know at the end of the day. A chainsaw is just a chainsaw power saws just a power saw and an axe is just an axe and kill it's picked up by a madman and then it's used as a weapon of destruction. I'm sure we're going to learn more about this person and as the investigation for crashes and we're able to pick up the breadcrumbs of his trail and how he got to that day there will be significant lessons learned it is something that is very difficult to protect against and it may it may change things at. Gambling venues. Similar to the shooting that occurred in Aurora Colorado couple of years ago. Movie theaters here in the United States now have totally different protocols and procedures for entering the movie theater in some cases you walk through a magnetometer there's a him wanting in many cases or certainly a police presence. That many large movie theaters so I imagine there will be some change if you have a moment there is something I would like to focus on for a bit if you if you're saying yes I'll give you about another 30 seconds if you don't mind I would. And that's personal preparedness you know it's human beings we no longer have the luxury of going through life on autopilot. Individuals families during that go out in public you need to consider the plans and the timing they need to do in the preparation they need to do for any type of disaster be an earthquake. Active shooter incident or you know severe electrical storms. It's very important that we have those personal preparedness plans made and we consider what we're going to do in an emergency before the emergency. Jeffress Slotnick from such record c.e.o. Of setter Kono Security Company thank you very much and just after 25 minutes to 2 . Lines. This is b.b.c. 5 Live b.b.c. News comes from Liam spread like 59 people on the knowns have died following the shooting in Las Vegas u.s. Place have found more weapons including guns ammunition and explosives in the home of the attack a 64 year old Stephen Paddick nearly 2000 monogram on staff of lost their jobs after the company fell into ministration the Civil Aviation Authority is flying around $110000.00 passengers back to the who are already approved officials in Spain say they'll do whatever is necessary to stop Catalonia becoming independent the Catholic leader wants international mediation following the disputed referendum hundreds were injured when police used force to try to see. Stopped people from voting and it's been reported the American musician Tom Petty is seriously ill following a cardiac arrest it's understood the 66 year old was found unconscious at his Malibu home time to get the spot now with Chapman Tottenham's Harry winks his 1st senior England call up the midfielder will replace Phil Jones and Fabian Delph ahead of Thursday's World Cup qualifier against Slovenia aps Wembley his all senior football reporter Ian Dennis both Phil Jones and Fabian Belfort search their clubs after they were assessed by the f.a. Medical staff these latest withdrawals are 2 alone the injury list of 12 that Gary Southgate described last week is really staggering the news will be a setback to both players Jones who was hoping for an injury free run after so many problems well tell through hasn't played for England since 2015 weeks ironically made it the numbers in training when Del full that 2 years ago made an impression will now have a longer period to catch the eye for his 1st senior pulled out a win will guarantee England a place that Russia 2018 Meanwhile former England striker Rickie Lambert has announced his retirement from football after a 19 year career Scotland manager Gordon struck and says it's up to his side to ensure they have the support of their fans at Hampden Park Scotland face Lavaca home on Thursday before a trip to still be near on Sunday needing to win both games to stand a chance of a World Cup playoff spot kind of come along and support you into the game start any right and the tennis is like going to music of it's not very good you know it's a dance and saying. We are trying make sure that we get on at the seams It's amazing what what can turn the code on it can be a block tackles on the chasing a ball don't chasing after the goalkeeper it's amazing what turns or occurred on former Arsenal striker Ian Wright says he thinks Burnley boss Sean died she is capable of replacing often Vanga and could go even further in needs to go at some stage to the next level in respect of a. Club that can play in Europe on a regular basis learn side of the game but because we're so bereft of any kind of manager that's good enough that could take on the England job if he carries on like he is it will probably be pushed into that into that role has been lee side a 6th in the Premier League as they continue that best start to a top flight season as Ben Stokes waits to hear if he'll be charged following his arrest for a.b.h. Durham Cricket Club has released a statement saying it does not condone discriminate tree behavior or prejudice of any nature Stokes has been ruled out of international selection until further notice whilst a disciplinary process takes place former England captain Michael Vaughan says the culture in that scene has to change I kind of look look at same and you know they're good sellouts the play it like we all like them playing that particular white ball game it's been a revelation in terms of the way we've played our white ball cricket for many many years this team are doing it differently it's great to watch but I do think they're a little bit loose off the pitch and I do think they can just draw themselves and have a little bit a look at the outside and say wait a minute is it the right thing no it isn't let's just do it a bit differently while we're in that same Meanwhile Tom Westley Keats in Jennings a mark would have been named in the England Lions squad which will shatter the senior side during the Ashes b.b.c. 5.8 years old is back consul This Saturday I'm chicken for fighting soldiers home and I will fight. Like anything at all of the chance because of what I see is a story about playing tennis a skill you have to do in my hometown of Belfast and for the live audience for the black stuff t.v. Studios who are trying to get away from sports awaya and Formula One this wage cut the funny thing was get her a new record in fighting talk pointing still is back until Sunday morning from 11 on b.b.c. News finally across the u.k. This is b.b.c. 5 live up all night with. The mayor of Puerto Rico Carmen Cruz who is. Got so much attention from her fight with Donald Trump and recent days has been tweeting about Las Vegas saying after the shooting all of flags in the municipality of San Juan will be lured to show our love and respect for the people of Las Vegas Meanwhile the governor of Puerto Rico Ricardo Rosello says over one of the half 1000000 barrels of fuel will reach Puerto Rico in the coming days and he also says that about half of the island now has water supplies Well this would be a significant improvement on the previous situation and we're all familiar by know with stories of supplies piling up on the quay side because there are no truck drivers to actually drive them and there's no diesel to fuel the trucks Let's join Jeremy combined who served as head of USA I.D.'s office u.s. Foreign Disaster Assistance during the Obama administration other words a man who had been the front line of all this is now a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development Hello Mr kind. Hello Well thank you so much for coming to taught us. A lot has a lot has changed since since the president and the mayor started tweeting at each other what's your present reading of the situation in Puerto Rico well so from the reports that are coming out in the last day or 2 it does appear the response is continuing to accelerate so that's so that's positive I think what you know what is becoming increasingly clear however is that this response started off too slow and too small and there were there was a really a missed critical window of opportunity during the 1st few days after the storm where and federal government should have been doing more to accelerate both the speed and scope and the ambition of the federal response and they. They did eventually do that but it wasn't till until about 67 days after the event occurred it was a typical time yeah in your experience what should have been the response when it became obvious the Polaroids were essentially walk well so my you know my experiences is mainly on the international side and the domestic system is a bit different but what's really striking to me is how much this challenge parallels what we saw during responses I led in places like the Philippines or Haiti. Or Nepal where when when we had blockages over land and we could not move trucks we were herded to air and we used military airlift to airlift supplies into some of the remote regions until we could set up overland access and so I'm a little bit you know I think they're doing a bit of that but you know that's an area where I wonder if they couldn't they could be a bit more ambitious and in particular over the last couple weeks it has had a larger scale airlift operation I think they could have been reaching more these places but we'll know a lot more you know right now it's a fog of response period as we call it so there's a lot of there's always a lot of confusion and injury and and information flying around I think as as the situation settles down will will be better positioned to do more of a post-mortem on this very interesting phrase that we didn't seem to have the same fog of response when it was Houston or when it was the Florida Keys but is that just because we've had our attention turned elsewhere that's a great point you know I'd point to 2 differences one is that while those were very severe emergencies the logistics there were far less complex than they are here anytime you're responding in an island environment and particularly in a place like Puerto Rico where virtually all of the communications were knocked out by the storm that greatly complicate your ability to get good information but I think it is true that both from both in terms of media attention and in terms of White House attention and focus both were significantly greater for the storms in Texas and Florida. And do you know what kind of stuffing there is no in the White House to deal with this and other words whose whose desk has this really landed on so there is a senior director on the National Security Council who is charged with homeland security and domestic disaster response and you know he has been very he's been working on this very very hard I think that you know. I think where the short come this short fall comes down to really is the president's focus in the president's attention in a in a sort of normal emergency you can let the machine run and most emergencies fall into that category but once in a while you have an outlier emergency that goes outside of the normal bounds of what the federal system is is built to do and I think this falls in that category and there you need presidential leadership to push the creativity and push the aggressiveness and you know we're getting some of that now but it was a long time coming and why would the president be in the position to involve the military in a more obvious way and airily or because he's now the head of the Army Corps of Engineers but but that was more than a week after the initial disaster Yeah I think they were slow to be to be creative in deploying some of those more unorthodox tools that they wouldn't normally use nothing that's important in a situation like this. Have the overall lead because Fema have the disaster expertise. Duty doesn't have expertise in that but they have this amazing with just ability and they can they can move at speed and that scale like no other part of the federal government so that is that marriage of themas expertise in coordinating with D.O.D.'s expertise and logistics and delivery you know I think that's I think that's ultimately how they're going to get on top of this. And do you know do you do you read this as a situation which can be saved you know are there are other losses that have never been sustain them think of a slave about human life and in particular as is this going to be seen as trumps Katrina which which everybody was saying last week. I think is a very good chance that it will be you know we don't have a good comprehensive picture of the full extent of the human cost of this the death toll figures remain low but there has been some reporting suggests that that may just be because the information you know there are bodies sitting in hospitals and morgues that have yet to be counted and. Of course you know when when there is virtually. No electricity and large parts of the island no clean water available and large parts of the island when that happens for anyone that. Is sustained over a period of several weeks that puts people at much of it risk so I think we are likely again as this situation stabilizes and we get better information on the full the full death toll it could be considerably higher than what we're seeing now but we can't conclude yet in terms of whether this is present trends Katrina I think it you know I think you have to say it is because ultimately. I think you know what really hurt President Bush on Katrina was the perception that he was not on top of it and not fully managing it not fully paying attention and there was a really damning post a Washington Post article over the weekend that recounted what President Trump was doing during that 1st critical weekend that critical 2 or 3 days immediately after the storm made landfall and you know if you believe that and it does seem pretty credible and ice in the Post has done their homework it does appear that he took his eye off the ball at the most crucial period and. I think it's a lot easier for the American people to to be understanding of a difficult. And slow response if they have the impression that everyone up and up to and including the president is really heavily focused on this and doing all that they can and that doesn't appear to have been the case here at least in the case of the present traffic and I'd like to thank you very much indeed for being with us a pleasure thank you thank you. Well let's go to Broadway because we need to Bruce Springsteen is just beginning his huge lead and to sip a to satellite run with the 1st preview show later on today there are 79 shows and prospect and he's going to be playing each one of them to just 960 people sitting in the Walter Kathy at her gym far as the New York based music critic Oh Jim are you good now what does it look like I mean this is the whole East St Band as a whole paraphernalia I know it's meant to be a solo show and it is from all we know going to be something that's a little different than anything we've seen before other words have been a lot of attempts pop stars and rock stars to be on Broadway they've been a lot of jukebox musicals there's been attempts more ambitious attempts to have a original musicals. To appear to the actors This does not appear to be any of those things basically it's from what we know it's going to be a mix of songs basic solo songs and storytelling storytelling is going to come from his bestselling book his autobiography Born to Run. And you know we don't know that much more beyond except I know it is going to be fairly intimate and low key from what I can tell the closest role model that I can see for the I don't know if it's a conscious role model but I should say that the closest and seasoned would be Ray Davies did a show like this back in 1906 he had an autobiography at the time called storyteller and then he began to do a small 2 or which was telling anecdotes from the book in between forming songs. Let's just let's just say there was a there was Born to Run playing the bad guy and we all know what Barnes run sounds like so let's just lose that. Reid Davis did show as you say which is a little bit like this this is not then going to be like Clapton at the Albert Hall it's not going to be the full on Springsteen experiences it's going to be much more autobiographical is going to be more autobiographical going to be more intimate and also you know it's it's it's not like he hasn't done elements of before he's done solo acoustic shows before he has although this is would be different because it's going to be a lot of talking one thing that's different about it is that it's going to be set you know he's known for constantly changing his he has these shows will be uniform that there will be you know especially a script. And he will be performing the same song so that's actually something for him that's different. You know so it's you know it will be here until just see how it goes with the most promising thing I would say about it is Bruce is a great rock I'm sure you know he's a wonderful storyteller he's been telling long before unfunny and moving stories into shows for years so again he has a lot of practice at the end but I'm sure the stories will be different and they'll take on a different tone in this context so is it possible that you are your experience on a let's say a Wednesday night could be different from someone else's experience on a Saturday. Well I think it'll be you know the shows are meant to be sort of uniform but I wouldn't be surprised at that with spontaneity there is always just a difference in the room any actor you know was really working with a completely set strip script will tell you that things change merely because of the audience that they will be different energy from the audience so there's always that that's the amazing thing about life or you know you kind of it's set to some degree but you never really know what's going to happen and is it really sold out oh yes you know I mean now that you know it's a funny thing in the modern world because and in a way now nothing is ever really sold out because of the tremendous resale market you know you can call that legalized scalping but because you see should be excused you know things like. And other companies people resell their tickets you know so right now the tickets are going reportedly from between well and u.s. Dollars would be like between $72400.00 to $24.00 and also probably be around 2000 pounds I would think so a lot of money a lot of money have they done anything to try to stop resale or to try to stop time . They have very there's a lot of new technology in place because of course you know. There's been tremendous corruption with these things and you'll notice a fan you know when you go to buy when something like this is announced and say it's all sold out 5 seconds later you kind of water hey what happened there one of the things that happened there is that what this system the problem with the democracy of the system is that it means if everyone's going on you know 11 o'clock on a certain date about the tickets I mean everyone is 1st on line so there is that problem but that that could still be legitimate but there still are have been companies that have figured out all these kind of Farias ways automated ways of trying to get the tickets in the way you'll see that and the most crazy thing you'll see sometimes is when you'll see tickets offered on resale sites before they have even go on sale the resale sites are meant to do something about that they're meant to monitor that and they have gotten better at that but they don't always do it but it's absurd you know I mean it's really it's just obvious they don't have those tickets yet but in answer to your question there has been some new technology that has made it that it's made it more difficult for people to do that kind of ridiculous scalping people who really are not fans and have no intention of going but just trying to profit Jim thank you very much indeed that was signed by John Callan sap and USA Today back to the of a sober news from Las Vegas hello coude Alright very very very sad day today here deeply deeply sad and and one of the things I think that probably you know we don't always emphasize is just the scale of this that the sheer scale of the injuries I mean that's it's military isn't in that school. Right and that's kind of the term that we keep hearing is war zone wars and war zone because you know it was certainly like a war or is being you know shot by this you know this man who was on the 32nd floor of a hotel shooting into a crowd of 22000 with a high powered you know weapon that we are still not sure about we still don't know a whole lot of details about the weapon and that he had in that hotel room and then of course you know the mayhem of back cars and then the mayhem at the hospitals that all these people were taken to and we have an interview with one of the doctors at the University Medical Center there in Las Vegas who talked about you know all we could do was just sort of keep people from dying he said we couldn't fix them but we could just keep them from dying and that's what they did they just went around and said Ok let's you know will this guy in the surgery and that you know you get just as much done as we can possibly do so he won't die right now and then we'll move on to. The next person and so it's really shocking indeed and you can just imagine exactly like a field hospital people being to indicate up and people being shown up to stop the bleeding the Sultan from from bleeding out and dying and then that they be taken back in for such a subsequent such I know you will have done a lot about the actual people who are involved in this and you must have a lot of profiles of the victims and this is one of the times where I don't want to talk of the USA Today network but in this particular case because we are newspapers all over the country we have immediate stories about all these people who are coming from you know who were all over from all over the country at this concert. Ok you know for instance our newspaper in Burlington Vermont had you know wonderful profiles about a person who was shot there down in Arizona which is pretty close to you know the Las Vegas we have the Arizona Republic which is reporting about you know sheriff's deputy and the wife of a sheriff's deputy and all these different people that they know you know. From that area so we're compiling as quickly as we can sort of and yet some of these victims were and what they did in their lives and it's you know it's just a very sad recitation of all these lives that were cut short credibly moving Callan thank you very much thank you so much. For news and. Anyone else this is. Extra apart now time for the b.b.c. News the main news on 5 us police find more weapons in the home of the last figure and in sports a fast senior call up for Tottenham's how he winks to England's injury hit squad. Is b.b.c. . For the 5 Live Nissan Liam Smedley more weapons have been found at the home of the Last Vegas gunman 64 year old Stephen Paddick shot dead at least 59 people and injured more than 500 others at a music festival before killing himself the Clark County Commission Chairman Steve says a lock the hate that this one individual this law will rain down on our community. Good part was met with an outpouring of love for her community and we will get through this together we will get through this is one community public open fire from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel towards the 22000 people that's an open air concerts. And his fiance escaped unhurt. The sound of the gunshots out of my at the moment you can see the things you see I mean it literally hurt my so like watch people be dying in front of me and I can't do anything about it because I have to get to safety I have heard the president has described the attacker. As pure evil the Civil Aviation Authority says about 860000 people have been affected by the collapse of Monaco Alliance planes have been chartered to bring back more than 100000 people who were already abroad most of the airline staff have been laid off Professor Andrew Ray is an aviation expert in North Africa and the Mediterranean which was Monex just a nation areas directly is gone don't even want to fly to those regions anymore once it lost those traditional markets is trying to look into the long haul markets and try to over its way into the western Mediterranean and some very crowded market places all of which are not really successful Catalonia as leader says he wants a new understanding with the government in Madrid following the disputed independence referendum officials say most of those who voted were in favor of breaking away from Spain a strike will take place in Catalonia today in protest at the police response to the ballot which saw hundreds of people hurt the National Cybersecurity Center says it received more than a 1000 reports of attacks in the 1st year of operation they include the recent hack on the n.h.s. The center says half the incidents were considered significant Here's our security correspondent Gordon Corera your organizations chief executive Kiran Martin told the b.b.c. That none of those reached the level of what he called a category one incident that would be something which did interfere with the democratic system or crippled critical infrastructure like power but he said we should expect such an attack in the coming years Tom Petty is thought to be seriously ill in hospital after suffering a cardiac arrest in his home in California the 66 year old had a string of hit singles with his band The Heartbreakers and n.h.s. Patients are being asked to take part in what described as the world's 1st trial for universal flu jab researchers at Oxford University say the vaccine should work against most trains and off the years of protection Let's get the sport now with Sharon and how he winks is being called up to the England senior squad for the 1st time the Tottenham midfielder replaces Fabian Douthat and Phil Jones who have withdrawn with injury. Ahead of England's World Cup qualifiers with Slovenia and Lithuania Meanwhile former England striker Rickie Lambert says playing at a World Cup was beyond my wildest dreams the ex Liverpool in Southampton forward has retired from football at the age of 35 former Arsenal striker Ian Wright just told 5 Live Burnley boss Sean died she is capable of replacing us and Banga a may even be pushed into the England job one day Dutch has twice won promotion to the Premier League with the cleric who are currently 6th in the table and Barcelona president tows that Maria bought some mail says playing Sunday's much against Las Palmas behind closed doors was one of the most difficult decisions I've made boss of 13 nil after a request to have the game postponed amid the political unrest in council Onya was turned down this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online smartphone and tablet the weather rain clearing in the south overnight with clear spells meaning it will be a chilly one some showers are likely towards the north and northwest though as the choose there's a whole most places will be drawing praise say though some patchy rain is likely in western parts after Sunday morning it will become cloudy this afternoon b.b.c. 5 Live radio consisting of On am and f.m. Around the u.k. On digital and on line I'm Roger Sharpe and we're up all night. In the us the national conversation has been dominated by events in Las Vegas and political conversation been dominated by those events too early in the day present Trump held a news conference at which he expressed his deepest sympathy for the victims and the people of Las Vegas thanked the America services for the job that he did. And ordered a minute's silence to be observed he also said that the nation's flag should be and it flew at half mast but there were some politicians who felt that did not go far enough. All over Britain it's 5 past 25 past 9 on a rocking chair on the porch of the glen Alice Springs and in Clarksville Georgia the nightlife farming by which I mean crickets 5 heading west from St Louis Missouri the Merrimack caverns are mine for saltpeter during the Civil War Jesse James had a number on the still an occasional meeting place for the local Chamber of Commerce 5 past 7 at the Museum of mining on Iran Avenue in Grants New Mexico in the fifty's and a bit of the sixty's local mines produced half of all the uranium in the United States and 5 Posix on Foothill Boulevard in San Bernardino California the way one motel is just what it says 19 concrete tepees and a tiny little pool are news comes from c.b.s. . C.b.s. News I'm Gary non coming to grips with the Las Vegas massacre 58 killed last night 515 injured by a shooter identified as Steven paddock emptying several automatic weapons from a high rise hotel room into a. Crowd of concert goers President Trump today at the White House to the families of the victims we are praying for you and we are here feel and we ask God to help see you through this very dark period he plans to visit Las Vegas Wednesday Peter King in Orlando Eric Patrick says the last contact he had with his brother Stephen was right after hurricane urban hit Florida last month texted me to ask about my mom after the hurricane we didn't have power for 5 days he says he said or a walker and some cookies but there was nothing to indicate anything was wrong with his life or that he was about to commit mass murder if there was anything I could have done I would have done it. But there was exactly nothing Peter King c.b.s. News Orlando paddock has described as a multi-millionaire real estate investor former f.b.i. Profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole talks about the mindset is wasn't somebody that was strongly emotional he saw those victims as objects and not humans and it takes a long time for somebody to evolve to the point where they can look at other humans as objects c.b.s. Is supplement when a swat team stormed the hotel room where the last biggest gunman was taking aim at the crowd below they found more than 10 rifles is a. Weapon in a manner of mass destruction the a.t.f. Is working to trace those weapons in a state with one of the country's most permissive gun laws that it does not require firearm owners to have a license or register their guns there's no waiting period no magazine capacity limit and some fully automatic weapons are legal former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords wounded in a shooting in 2011 was at the u.s. Capitol today she raised her fist and said the nation is counting on you her husband Mark Kelly at her side spoke about gun violence My fellow Americans we don't have to accept this as normal it's not normal it's not. Evitable It's an epidemic that needs to be cured ISIS is claiming paddock who took his own life was one of their soldiers but u.s. Officials say so far they have no evidence of that Equifax has increased the number of people impacted by a data breach the credit reporting firm now says an additional 2 and a half 1000000 more u.s. Customers were potentially the victims of that data breach 3 American scientists will share the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine Michael Young Jeffrey Hall and Michael rush cited for revealing the inner workings of our biological clocks Wall Street Monday stocks closing higher the doll up 152 this is c.b.s. News 1st full day of freedom in 9 years for o.j. Simpson reporters caught up with him several hours after being paroled from prison in Nevada C.B.S.'s John Schumacher he downplayed his release and new lease on life I didn't know where USA for the last 5 years doing nothing nothing has changed in my life would you guys they would say that you did got to a point. For the 40 year legal expert Laurie Levenson believes Simpson should stay out of the spotlight I think. Is lay low to stay with us from rule stay with. John to no c.b.s. News at least 2 people had their personal information stolen in a 2016 Securities and Exchange Commission breach including Social Security numbers and birthdates last month the f.c.c. Revealed that hackers broke into its system going on c.b.s. News. President Trump lead the White House staff and senior officials in a moment of silence for the 59 Las Vegas shot concert goers shot dead late on Sunday night the president said earlier that the last Vegas shooting which killed at least 58 people well 59 people were no and injured 527 the latest count was an act of pure evil My fellow Americans we are joined together today in said Miss shock and grief last night a gunman opened fire on a large crowd at a country music concert in Las Vegas Nevada he brutally murdered more than 50 people and wounded hundreds more it was an act of pure evil the f.b.i. And the Department of Homeland Security are working closely with local authorities to assist with the investigation and they will provide updates as to the investigation and how it develops I want to thank the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and all of the 1st responders for their courageous efforts and for helping to save the lives of so many the speed with which they acted is miraculous and prevented further loss of life to have found the shooter so quickly after the 1st shots were fired is something for which we will always be thankful and grateful it shows what true professionalism is all about. President Trump making some assumptions there that may be questioned in coming days but speaking in the Senate the majority leader publican Mitch McConnell led a minute's silence and he before he called for the silence called it a moment for national mourning and prayer what happened on the last leg of the shocking it's tragic and for those affected and their families It's devastating it's hard to even imagine their pain I hope they will know that we are praying for them now open they will find strength and the love and kindness of those around them and in these hours of such darkness and pain. Not everybody saw it quite like that the former congresswoman Gabby Giffords who survived the shooting in Arizona at a shopping mall 6 years ago called for tougher gun laws a joint statement read by her husband Mark Kelly the farmer a space commander said thoughts and prayers from the White House were not enough to stop the next shooting and her words echoed those of the Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren for example said very much the same thing as did Massachusetts congressman Seth Moulton here to talk about the response to the tragedy and whether there has been a distinction between the Democrats and Republicans are guests Clark Judge founder and managing director of the White House Writers Group and a farmer special assistant and speechwriter to President Reagan Good evening Clark Good evening or anything and and Chris Kafin assumes worked as a Democratic strategist and campaign consultant and is the c.e.o. Of Park Street Strategies Hello Chris. Hitting. When Let me. Plug let me be Let me begin with you beef of course would be dreadful and simplistic to suggest that a division along party lines here but is it only the Democrats who are talking about the problems of of so many Americans ordering so many high powered guns Well the Democrats have all have longed for for at least through the law many years and even earlier regularly brought up gun issues whenever something like this has happened. Doesn't the Center of Disease Control of a few years ago looked at. A number of people who were saved by. Who said they were saved by guns having guns and so over half a 1000000 a year. The who sadly were saved by having a gun. A course of an armed robbery or something like that but beyond that. The. The the studies of people who have done these sorts of things says this man today have found that despite all of the gun laws they stay intact they got their guns legally and we have several 1000 gun laws in the United States at our various levels state local federal. And almost without exception the people who have perpetrated these horrible events have done it with received obtaining the guns within the law our laws are very strict. They're very certain we have a very well i Pod that some people might not say that they were that straight they're well and some people will and maybe not maybe what you mean is they're strictly observed or they're strictly enforced but they don't they're not strict to begin with Ali if you can own a semiautomatic rifle for example well as semiautomatic rifle is like a revolver you pull the trigger you get a shot you pull the trigger you get a shot. But the fact is let me let me turn to something else he what strikes me is that it's inappropriate at this time to get into these kinds of policy discussions the appropriate thing is to comfort the those who have been hurt we have deep divisions in this country over the role of guns in these kinds of issues. Whether they and the role of guns on balance. In crime in stopping crime both by having them and not having them but that isn't that's the those those divisions can wait a day or 2 you know there are a lot of people who've been badly who've been killed there who've been injured in bad in very difficult and very severe ways and this is the time to to. Comfort and we can debate these issues another day in a later time well let me let me pick up with Chris Christie you think that people like Elizabeth Warren a do do stand some who. Are liable to be accused of being hard hearted in their initial response. I think it's I think it's a reflection of the frustration at having to wake up and see another headline with another series of. You know mass shooting for the school. You know. Whether it's an outdoor concert or whether it's a movie theater or whatever but I think. There are clearly some Democrats who I think are very emotional about this issue and passionate about it and and and want to speak out and raise the point that basically is how much is enough. Now I think the challenge 'd of doing that now 'd is the lotions are so wrong. This is a terrific Grant I mean I live in Las Vegas I have a lot of close friends in Las Vegas and it's it's a it's a strange town the senses it's a town that we're. Very few people are kind of born there some are but a lot of people kind of move there. And so you know it's a it's a really an incredible reflection of the country and I think the country is right now is deeply divided in so personally I would have counseled folks to maybe hold off a little bit. And you know there will be a time to talk politics is talk about these issues I mean the reality of gun control the 2nd Amendment is an issue that this country has struggled with for decades I have a feeling it will struggle with it for decades to come. I wish you would be easier to find some common ground that respects the ability of people have a firearm to protect themselves or. To go hunting but. Someone who has fired a lot of guns in their life in their lives I don't understand the need to have a an assault rifle I've fired my share share of assault rifles and they are incredibly powerful weapon but I did underage. But that debate is going to be had it but right now you have a community reeling. And a country that is in and even before this was deeply divided so I would hope that both Republicans and Democrats at least for a few days are able to kind of back from their political positions and try to figure out Ok let's focus on trying to help this to anybody the folks the families that are dealing with all. Those are the injured let's focus on that 1st because a lot they'll be lots of cars on the track that's the right. Well let's draw a line under under this discussion then and move on and perhaps we could move on to consideration of some of the other many things that are on President Trump plate he has. Launched a tax reform bill for example. But before we get to talk about that perhaps we should talk about his relationship with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson who we can was making encouraging noises about opening a dialogue with North Korea and then the president tweeted that he was wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rock as the president calls Kim Jong un. Clock judge did the president slot Rex Tillerson in always he try to do something else what was what's going on here I see this is a little different than what the way it's being reported which is just that you're saying that it's it's a terrible division between the president and the secretary of state there is a time in. During the Argentine crisis about the fog lines when President Reagan was talking with his then Secretary of State. Who. His 1st secretary of state who and they were talking about negotiations with the Argentinians Well Hague That's right and the president said to the secretary will make me don't be afraid to make me the bad guy . In other words it's not unusual for shrewd negotiators to say Make me you go in there you can be the nice guy and you can show me hold me up. As the guy who well I'm trying to keep him in check but you never know what he'll do and I think that this is my feeling is this is what Trump President Trump is doing right now Tillerson goes in he. He's clearly being conciliatory and then the president. Tweets this and it strengthens Tillerson is hand it it's a way essential it's a way of intimidating the North Koreans and of keeping them on edge and wondering what's happening and thinking you know if we don't deal with this guy that guy is that guy's we we have to worry about that it's an assumption that the North Koreans are so are capable of. Negotiating which is from our point of view this country's point of view a question but this would be I would wreck wreck this rank this is a classic noble negotiating ploy and it could just as he clog if in the secular state then turn around and say Well progress is being made on the negotiating front would that be generally politically welcomed Yeah I think so. I think what you're looking for here is some movement away from. Their. Away from their weapons away from developing their weapons further away from testing their weapons further they're getting to a point where they can hit American targets they can also already hit targets of our allies Japan obviously and Taiwan the Philippines. This is this is becoming an increasingly untenable situation and. So if there were indication that they were moving back from that that would be fantastic. It's going to take some hard and hard nosed negotiation and some of the kinds of ploys that I've just talked about in order to get the North Koreans to move if they will move but this is not a simple you know over Tea Party kind of negotiation this is hard as hard as it gets and with the kinds of ploys required to get to a satisfactory solution that are way tougher than the normal. Chris always everybody would would applaud the United States stepping back from the brink of some kind of nuclear confrontation and it but anything else to add on on the position at the moment. I think that the lack of confidence. Well lot of people have towards President Trump in terms of having a real go publicly in this case with a secretary of state is that there might be a way 'd that he want to send signals to the 'd North Koreans or others. Progs and I struggle with is 'd it just it just doesn't seem to be that strategic are really rich I could kill the president for that kind of the doubt but I have not seen that kind of disciplined jest strategically located in the kitchen as we said. Disparity in a certain state Tillerson in China talks about to go shooting trying to negotiate with the North Koreans. And the be the White House spokesperson saying no knowledge of the time for dialogue whether you want to believe it now the time for dialogue or not it says that we link signals. Or create conditions for miscommunication. And this is I think the problem the split many people have with how President Trump communicates it just doesn't seem to be thought through and that's the part that kids people. Little concerning driving we're talking about a situation there's some situation you can do that even though shooting a we think you can play those games if you will is the key thing here are the consequences of miscalculation. And that's the part that I think is troubling and I'm not sure that they're going to change because I think it's just the way the President Trump operates I just think it's a style I think it's what he thinks works. And I have yet to see it work personally . And I just like a very quick thought from you both on the on the new item at the top of the agenda for. Health care reform which is tax reform and now President Trump says that people should be able to do their tax return on one page and that house has a target for tax reform as much lower corporation tax but also a much simplified system of not being able to deduct so very much if you are the average American taxpayer. Clark judges you're going to make progress with this. I think so yes this is a very different the dynamics of this issue are very different than on health care reform. The Republicans have worked on this for a long time in detail apparently they hadn't with as we see with the health care reform there is a lot of agreement within the party. What you've got to keep in mind though is that the Republican Party. Essentially like the Democrats have several members who are independents caucusing with the party on the Democratic side it's King of Maine and Sanders the presidential candidate on the Republican side it's Murkowski of Alaska and and an Oscar the high up here I do apologize I'm so sorry so we don't know what was a very difficult Yeah but in any event it's very different there's a lot of division inherent in the party on the gadgets but on this issue less clock thank you very much Chris. The other Democrats going to have a chance to rewrite this or at least take out the bits that don't like. It's going to be difficult. I do believe there is the potential for some type of compromise in some areas but the problem is and you're going to see in this is in some respects almost more difficult if you can believe in health care because the difference when you're reforming the tax code is by definition create winners or losers. And that's where the political operation begins when there's a special interest a male or a tax credit or whatever you may have so I think there is no one really meant that there are no tax reform but here is the problem there is no disagreement whatever form looks like hide the. Other thing we're going to keep going around in circles like this Chris thank you very much and we'll come back and talk about this contorted issue another time right now it's just after half past 2. Live pretty early for anyone else this is b.b.c. 5 Live b.b.c. News comes from Liam Smedley police investigating the shooting in Las Vegas say they found more weapons in the attackers home 59 people were killed and over 500 others injured when 64 year old Stephen Paddick fired on an open air concert nearly 2000 Monegan line staff or be made redundant following the company's collapse the Civil Aviation Authority is organizing flights to bring passengers already abroad back to the u.k. a Region wide strike will be taking place in Catalonia later posing the violence which took place during the disputed independence referendum hundreds are injured when Spanish police used force to try to prevent people from voting and Tom Petty the American rock star is thought to be seriously ill following a cardiac arrest his reported the 66 year old heartbreak his front man was found unconscious at his Malibu home town to get the spot now with shop now Tottenham's how he winks out his 1st senior England call up the midfielder will replace Phil Jones and Fabian Delph had a Thursday's World Cup qualifier against Slovenia apps Wembley he is the senior football reporter in tennis both Phil Jones and Fabian Delph returned to their clubs after they were assessed by the f.a. Medical staff these latest withdrawals add to a lengthy injury list of 12 that Gary Southgate described last week as really staggering the news will be a setback to both players Jones who was hoping for an injury free run after so many problems well Delfin hasn't played for England since 2000 of the. 15 weeks ironically made at the numbers in training with Del full that 2 years ago made an impression will now have a longer period to catch the eye for his 1st senior pull out a win will guarantee England a place that Russia 2018 Meanwhile former England striker Rickie Lambert has announced his retirement from football after a 19 year career Scotland manager Gordon struck and says it's up to his side to ensure they have the support of their fans at Hampden Park Scotland face the back home on Thursday before a trip to Slovenia on Sunday needing to win both games to stand a chance of a World Cup playoff spot kind of come along in the support you into the game starts right at the tennis it's like going to musical of it's not very good you know a go of dance and saying you know. We are trying make sure that we get on at the seats it's amazing what can turn the code on it can be a lot Tycho's on the chasing a ball doing chasing after the goalkeeper. It's amazing what tons of occurred on former Arsenal striker Ian Wright says he thinks Burnley boss Sean died she is capable of replacing often Vanga and could go even further the needs to go at some stage to the next level in the structure of a club that can play in Europe on a regular basis learn that side of the game but because we're so bereft of any kind of manager it's good enough that could take on the England job if he carries on like he is it will probably be pushed into that into that role dodges Burnley side a 6th in the Premier League as they continue their best start to a top flight season as Ben Stokes waits to hear if he'll be charged following his arrest for a.b.h. Durham Cricket Club has released a statement saying it does not condone discriminate behavior or prejudice of any nature Stokes has been ruled out of international selection until further notice whilst a disciplinary process takes place former England captain Michael Vaughan says the culture in the team has to change account to look look at same and you know they're good sellouts the play it like we all like them playing that particular white ball game it's been a revelation in terms of the way we've played our white ball cricket for many many years this team are doing it differently it's great to watch but I do think they're a little bit loose off the pitch and I do think they can just draw themselves in a little bit a look at the outs and say wait a minute is it the right thing no it isn't let's just do it a bit differently while we're in that same Meanwhile Tom Westley Keeton Jennings a mark would have been named in the England Lions squad which will shatter the senior side during the Ashes. Of. At least from the classroom to the ball game with the green moss and a sham right Apprentice because a win at life no limit no with the credit used to call it solid gold has been on an improper musical no time for nonsense The Apprentice much better returns Wednesday night at 9 on b.b.c. One. This. It's b.b.c. 5 Live available on the b.b.c. I Player radio. Right with rock shop. Pew twelve's new book Black Dahlia red rose is the latest now an actual score of books to take on one of America's most notorious unsolved crimes not to mention James our eyes 1007 novel and a 2006 film of the novel by Brian De Palma the murder victim Elizabeth Short was a beautiful a fun remarkable young woman in Los Angeles but the sensational nature of her murder and early 1947 transfixed the newspapers and the newspaper reading public a reporter gave it the name of a popular film starring Veronica Lake and the legend grew not a lot of people confessed but no one was ever convicted the British lawyer Pew eat well says she knows who done it but let's begin at the end with the discovery of Elizabeth Short's body well Elizabeth's body was discovered at 10 o'clock in the morning in a suburban part of Los Angeles called Leaman park and a young housewife called Betty best in was out from going along with the baby daughter in her bulky and she saw this this cloud of fly by the sidewalk and she thought that's a bit older and she came closer and saw a white shape and it 1st she thought it was a shot Monica and it was so white and then the closer she came she realized that actually it was a body so she immediately panicked and rushed to the nearest house and telephone for the police. Moving on to the State of the body the body was actually in 2 segments it was bisected which is very unusual it was the body of a young woman of 22 years old she'd been tortured before she was killed there had been lacerations made on either side of her face and blows to the head that was probably was it killed her and then there were several mutilations made to the body after death and it was a couple of those mutilations the details of them were kept back a secret fact to be used by the police in questioning potential suspects in those days reporters got to martyr scenes remarkably Ali didn't they which is absolutely fascinating in itself because one Airlie on gets a sense of a a posse of reporters and a posse of policeman all busying themselves about the body one of them was a woman can you tell us a little bit about Agnes Underwood Yes absolutely Agnes Underwood was one of the 1st reporters on the scene she was the top crying beat reporter on the Herald Express newspaper which was one of the major Los Angeles newspapers and she had an absolutely fascinating background because she thought being born in 102 to an itinerant glassblower father her mother died at Finale age and she'd grown up in foster homes and often inches and then when she was a teenager an elderly aunt to try to make her into a movie star but she didn't have the looks of that and so when the young discovered that she wasn't going to make any money out of her she jumped in a Salvation Army hostel in downtown Los Angeles and from there she scrambled up the ladder to become the top crime reporter on the Herald Express and subsequently one of the 1st female editors of a national newspaper so she really is the most remarkable story for a woman of her time. When we wrote the story the Herald Express Edition actually sold just about any other edition than that can you give us some some sense of just hope popular in a good Tesco way that the martyr story was Yes absolutely well old news papers when they were published on the morning of the outsold almost every other edition they've had the Los Angeles Examiner which was one of the newspapers that ran the story with the headline feeding torches kills girl actually sold more copies in the edition which had copied the ball than the edition which had covered the bombing of Pearl Harbor amazing ideas in it why do you think the public was so if transfixed by this the get go. I think that the public was transfixed by this case because there was there was a huge moral panic going on at the time about women turning up in Hollywood I mean that that still goes on now obviously hundreds of young girls turning up thinking they'll just have a milkshake in a bar on the next day they'll be on on the movies but this was just the start to sit and say there was a huge concern about all these young girls turning up the inability to control what they did they were sleeping around they were not doing the conventional things that women were supposed to do and their lives with chalk got transformed in a sense into the poster child the warning for all young women in America as to the dangers of leaving your home and the lovely phrase wasn't I mean about her a man crazy delinquent absolutely a man crazy delinquent a tramp you know she got turned into this to the farm fertile straight out of a new arm easy. And was she. Well it's the call to know what's real is this what was really like because there are so many myths and stories created around her the from what we know she was actually just an ordinary girl from a small town little town in Massachusetts she was one of the 5 daughters brought up by a single mother she was strikingly attractive we know that their descriptions of how she would Sissay down the street even to the local grocery store wearing high heeled shoes and a hassle noise b.c. Turned out she would stop the traffic she was one of many hundreds of girls at the time he dreamt of becoming the movie stars and he would perhaps too big for the small town world in which they grew up and just this amazing black hidden she hence the name the black Delio Absolutely yes Elizabeth had the most startling black hair and she used to wear a flower pinned into it and there'd been a popular movie called The Blue jollier which came out the year before she died and that meant that the sailors who used to see her hanging around Long Beach at the soda fountain got to calling her the black daily a and then of course after she got killed the newspaper swooped on that headline and it was plastered everywhere and interviewed some people that's one of the reasons why this case becomes a famous it's literally the name which is such an a powerful in vocative name in itself Lispers didn't hurt the newspapers when a circulation war absolutely of course the newspapers were in a vicious battle at this time you had the Hearst newspapers which were very much the tabloid the l.a. Press and then you had the Chandler newspapers and they were in a big circle a should battle and of course everybody wants to get the 1st story the 1st interview to be the office in the game. When those stories side them as a some they really come tumbling out. And as well as Aggy there's another reporter called Jimmie Richardson who is a city editor at Time and he got to a man known as red or at least he got the the sniff of a story of a man known as Red who was red Well Red was Robert Manley he was the 1st major suspect in the case and he wears a married man he'd been having an affair with Elizabeth Short and he was the last person to see her alive he dropped her off at the Biltmore Hotel in downtown Los Angeles which was the last place she was seen before she disappeared and then because he'd been the last person with her he was mass he became the prime suspect in the case although it was later after a lot of investigation and research he was later completely cleared he did several lie detector tests his car was there and he searched and checked for any traces of blood and most importantly he had towards a Thai alibi his wife and several friends testified that he was playing cards with then the night that Elizabeth was killed. It is amazing that she gets to him and gets an interview somehow pretty much with the collusion of the police did it surprise you as you're going through all your sources on this as a trained lawyer that the police and the press were quite so hand in glove. Well I mean it certainly would surprise anybody today to see the extent to which the police in the press were so close together I mean it there's an extraordinary scene early on in the book when Elise that's trunk her trunk in which her possessions have been packed was tracked down by one of the reporters on Jimmy Richardson's newspaper the Los Angeles Examiner And to me which isn't just things are the police and says well look if you want to see the trunk and the contents then you're going to have to come and open it at the examiner offices so we get the exclusive on what's in the trunk and the police basically agree the head of Home is thought Captain Jack done and I said Ok all right and say that this vital piece of evidence the victim's possessions was opened in the office today is also one of the major Los Angeles newspapers I mean that's quite extraordinary that could never happen now the atmospherics on the sun in your book sure redolent of 1950 s. B. Movies are still new are and I suppose I haven't really accepted that this kind of thing actually happened to do you know I mean that's all thanks Rodney but this is absolutely right I mean I adore film No and I love it and the what is what struck me so much in with that thing this book and wonder reasons why refer to the film to all me the sin for example the chapter titles is that truth was really more twisted than fiction in this case that mean you know if you look at the machinations and the ins and outs of what happened in the actual story it makes movies like The Big Sleep seem like quite boring in comparison. You talked about the post-mortem you talked about the fact that the they withheld the so-called secret facts support had been done to the body what was the point of that to mean that and how far did the post-mortem go in establishing the true condition. Body Well the reason for the secret facts being withheld were well to start with the secret facts with 2 details relating to the nature of the meat lay sions and they would have withheld for very good reason which was that hundreds of people came forward confessing to this crime is one of the with things about the squad that so many people wanted a piece of the limelight they were even paid to come forward and that they did it when they weren't even there so the go to the gas chamber right and it's secret that for that we doubt the true perpetrator of the crime from all these people who were coming forth and confessing because they were facts which would not reveal to the newspapers and which only the killer would know. In this in this. Sort of quest for scoops there is a. Really interesting scoop isn't there some point because somebody takes a call. From a man who says he has the he has the stuff that she was actually carrying when she disappeared Yes absolutely Jamie Richardson the editor of The Los Angeles Examiner was getting a bit fed up because the headlines were running out on his big story and this was round about the 23rd of January about a week off the killing and then suddenly his phone rang and he heard this he described it strange soft flyboys on the phone saying I hear you're running out of material well maybe I can provide you with the mall I'm going to send you some of the things that the dead girl had on her including the contents of her handbag and sure enough a couple of days later a package arrived addressed to the Los Angeles Examiner and out the Los Angeles newspaper containing the contents of the victim's handbag Now there were many letters and packages sent into the press they've the whole period of this investigation and almost all of them or most of them have been discounted as fakes but this 1st package is universally acknowledged that it must have come from the killer because there's nobody else who could possibly have had the contents of the girl's hand back with them because that's what she was carrying when she was killed and subsequently Hubbard was found in a bin That's right so the contents of the handbag was sent to the Los Angeles Examiner. But the handbag itself and his shoes were found dumped in a trash can on quench will Boulevard which was not far from where the body had actually been dumped and this at this location turned out to be very important clue as to the location of the killer You would think wouldn't you with all of the servants trying to mount. Up that it would only be a matter of time before the the killer was actually brought in and talked to but one of the things had been done to the actual the evidence if you like from a handbag including an address book what did the what did whoever it was due to this stuff in order to stop the investigators taking prints off it. Well the contents of the package had been so in gasoline which would stop people taking fingerprints there was just a couple of prints which were very blurred since much taken from the outside of the package but because the package already been partially opened and they were the outside they could have come from virtually anyone so they were virtually They were of no value in terms of the investigation. Trains isn't it and at some points of course as you as you detail in the book there are all sorts of wild goose chases and strange diversions one of them is the is the quickly described Shafik angle which was made much of in Brian the Palmer film wasn't it which was from your point of view was mostly a lot of nonsense but But what was a Sapphic angle Well yes it's made a big deal of in the film because it's also made a big deal of in James l. Voice book in which the film is based but yes at the time in the press there was quite a lot of speculation that the killer might have been a lesbian and that was partly because of the nature of the mutilations there was a particularly large gas which was believed could have signified some kind of jealous Sapphic love and the press went completely overboard on this I mean this was a time when lesbianism was actually considered a disease and the medical theory of lesbians was that they were men trapped in women's bodies and that they would be inevitably fated to a tragic death by suicide or some form of self home but at the same time they were a number of lesbian or bisexual movie stars like Marlena did get a call about. The whole part of their a lier was that they were androgynous and there was this kind of mystical mysterious aura around their sexuality and so you have this kind of deep ambivalent in contemporary attitudes to lesbianism and homosexuality and that was played out in the press the time it was so far beyond the pale wasn't it that people would just. Just throw up their hands and part and perhaps that's part of it's injuring appeal as well. Yes I mean I think I think you know. A case like this there's always something more to say I mean in my opinion on the evidence I've seen I've sold day or come up with a pretty good solution but then that's never the end of the story I mean if I had solved there is every reason to ask even more questions quite frankly as to how and why this could possibly have been covered up to say lol I went Well you mention the term cover up we've got to come to the police investigation because a police investigation seems to be steaming along a grand jury is impaneled in 1949 it looks as if they are heading towards cracking the case and then everything stops with a can a scream of bricks or what's the background to this well the grand jury investigation was in 1990 years after the murder and the reason why it was started was because a very good suspect had been found at the beginning of the year and arrested by the police he came forward and said This is the best suspect yet we have the man he knew the secret facts and he also was in Los Angeles at the time of the murder he was known to have gone out with this stuff and then 2 days later literally after this announcement they said he went on a story we've made a mistake we're going to let him go and this peculiar turnaround caused all sorts of rumors throughout the year in the newspaper reporters talk of a cover up talk about the fact that the killer was connected with important people in the police force and so the grand jury was impaneled and at the end of the years that they wants to look into this and find out why the suspects had been suddenly released and said the grand jury proceedings at the end of $9049.00 are all about that they're looking at the evidence they're investigating the police officers and . Trying to find out why it was this man was suddenly released and the grand jury is very very unhappy about what happened unfortunately because each grand jury only had a year to investigate the daily case came up right at the end of the 1949 grand jury's period of investigation and say then he had a couple of months but they made it clear at the end of the year that they were very unhappy with what the Tappenden the police conduct of the case and they wanted the 950 jury to carry on the investigation what actually happened was that the 150 grand jury showed no interest in the case whatsoever and it was just totally shelved and not exactly by the way where you most interesting sources is to do with that grand jury investigation isn't it absolutely I base a great deal of particularly the latter part of the book looking very very closely at that grand jury investigation because the documents from that grand jury investigation were kept secret and were not released until the mid 2000 and for various reasons even after they were released they've never been really examine them published before and say if you look at those documents and I did absolutely Mind you the catalog them I index them I set them in a timeline with the newspaper reports you get a very very clear idea of what happened in those proceedings and how unhappy the grand jury walls. It also involves a police psychiatry's to himself a very interesting character in this new becomes an object of of concern really later in the book doesn't he I called derive or that's right just don't suggest a full drive was the Los Angeles police I cut the time and he's actually very interesting and flamboyant and controversial figure he was the 1st police thought Chris to be employed by the police department and he was one of the very early people to do a criminal profile for a police department as well in fact his press one of his press office with only the 2nd such criminal profile the 1st criminal price fall was in fact a profile constructed in relation to the White Chapel killings the Ripper killings in the 1880s in Britain but the rise was convinced that he caught the killer that he caught the person who committed the murder and he never ever gave up on this so we even know after the grand jury hearing when this person was not indicted and subsequently never charged he continued to say that he was the killer and in fact he was harassed by the police after Woods there's evidence from both his daughter and his granddaughter that the family were harassed they found shots fired outside their door there was a dead face put on their doorstep or is this to stop him telling what he believed was the truth and in the true tradition of whodunits we are not about to reveal your own conclusion. Or derive or some clues and for that matter because that would be unfair but but just to say that when the address book was found that was one name that was particularly prominent wasn't or yes when the address that was found in Elizabeth handbag there was a name on the front of the address book and it was marked Hanssen. Annot Hanson was a prominent Hollywood businessman he owned a number of movie theaters and also a number of clubs nightclubs where young girls with the the floor show and he'd had an affair with a list that short and he was passionate about her very very possessive in jealous he was jealous of her many boyfriends and make them park around the block when they came around to visit and the Syrian might because that Hansen got fed up with Elizabeth he got fed up with her pestering for money he was jealous of all these boyfriends and so he basically just had to get rid of her get rich off the skull and so one of his pay someone of his hangers on who happened to also be a psychopath got rid of that but he did literally an overkill and went far beyond anything that Hansen would have contemplated but because Hansen was involved and he had connections with the police that was the reason for the cover up and what about the most facts I just won't leave people with this last sense of the fog and the gloom and that the darkness and this peculiar video of a motel room can you know something about. Yes I mean that's actually quite extraordinary the place where this murder took place was a seedy downtown motel in an area of Los Angeles which has changed very little and so in the presence of my research I actually went and visited this cd downtown motel it was very very difficult to actually get in there because there's no telephone number there's no website and they didn't really knows very much about the history of the motel it's all they had no idea about particularly the case they had heard they really rumors that some murder might have been committed that that was all they knew and when I was there one of the work is the motel came running up to me with this video footage that had been taken from the security camera and it showed this fake a leaving the cabin from which I'd actually said the murder took place and running out of the motel and you see this dark figure in what looks like a really rainy night running out and they never asked me for money for this there was never any suggestion that they wanted anything out of it so the whole thing is quite strange I mean they could very well be a totally practical explanation for it but it is old and it is particularly if it happens to be this very cabin the I identify and which they didn't even know the time was the one in question. It was a go oh I did. I mean I have to say I think it's the. Book it's called Black Veil you read rules. For news and. Than anyone else this is the scene. It's 3 o'clock b.b.c. News comes from William straddling. The menus on 5 Live u.s. Police find more weapons in the home of the last a bigger shoot out and in for the 1st senior call of Fatah and I'm sorry winks to England's injury hit squad. This is b.b.c. 5. Police investigating the last of a good shooting of found more weapons at the home of the attacker 64 year old Stephen Paddick opened fire at a music festival leaving at least $59.00 people dead and more than $500.00 injured he then killed himself 18 guns thousands of rounds of ammunition and explosives were found at his home the mayor of Las Vegas is Carolyn Goodman It's a very difficult time while the sun is shining in Las Vegas it is a very dark and black day October 1st 2017 will be one of the darkest days ever and hopefully never again where police don't believe paddock was linked to any terrorist group Kimberly Brus campaigns for gun control in the u.s. I've seen what a bullet can do to a body and I know how gun violence rips apart a family every single day in the u.s. We have 321 people shot we doubled that number just today and we can accept that as normal as does not happen in any other country in the world President Trump led a silence of the White House earlier Hill visit Last Vegas to morrow. In other news on what administrators of called a very sad day almost 2000 more like airline staff are being laid off the firm has collapsed affecting hundreds of thousands of passengers some who were already abroad planes have been chartered to bring them back this woman only found out her flight was cancelled when she arrived at Gatwick Gables on the flip to say nothing lights from sunup have been cancelled so we're just panicking then what do we do everybody's up to flights here there and everywhere and it's cost me another $666.00 pounds to get to that I want to go today and I've already paid $1500.00 the castle and later. The man says he's not planning a traumatic splits with Spain officials in the region so voters overwhelmingly backed independence in a disputed referendum almost 900 people were hurt as Spanish police tried to stop the ballasts English teacher have a Corteen or will be taking part in a region wide strike later in protest at the violence and not the kind of person the main street but they think that. There has been a change and really sorry the images that Mr to see and then sure that this is change the mindset of our society the husband of a detective who was found dead in a lake has been charged with a murder they are McI he was $39.00 was discovered in the water at points and park in Cheshire on Friday Darren McI who was also a Greater Manchester officer is g. Before magistrates later. The circuitry on the road will national measures later to deal with online radicalization she's proposing a new criminal offense of streaming terrorist content with jail terms of after 15 years and the American rock star Tom Petty is thought to be seriously ill in hospital the Heartbreakers from and is reported to been found unconscious at his home in Malibu in California after suffering a cardiac arrest Shabnam has the support Ari Winx is being called up to the injured senior squad for the 1st time the Tottenham midfielder replaces Fabian Douthat and Phil Jones who have withdrawn with injury ahead of England's World Cup qualifiers with Slovenia and Lithuania Meanwhile former England striker Rickie Lambert says playing at a World Cup was beyond my wildest dreams the x. Liverpool in Southampton forward has retired from football at the age of 35 former Arsenal striker Ian Wright says told 5 Live Burnley boss Sean died she is capable of replacing Aston Venga a may even be pushed into the England job one day Deitch is twice won promotion to the Premier League with the cleric who are currently 6th in the table and Barcelona president Jose Maria bottom male says playing Sunday's match against last Palmer's behind closed doors was one of the most difficult decisions I've made possible in 3 No after a request to have the game postponed amid the political unrest in Catalonia was turned down this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online the smartphone and stop at a look at the weather rain clearing in the south urbanite with clear spells many it will be a chilly one some showers are likely towards the north and northwest as for Tuesday as a whole most places all be dry and breezy though some patchy rain is likely in western parts after a sunny morning it will become cloudy in the afternoon. Rower which go to from our up to 8 on the aftermath of the shooting with Assistant Sheriff toward for shore. These past 20 hours have been trying and we know we have a long way to go I'm proud of the courage and resiliency displayed by all our 1st responders on this event I also want to appeal to you and the public and the media we know of no known threats in our Las Vegas area if we did know of anything that could harm the safety and security of our citizens we would tell you that and our department would act upon that please allow our department the ability to do what they do the best investigate crime and keep you safe. With that I will turn it over to Commissioner says slack who has a few words. Of a very few words I'd like to say again this has had several days today and it's been a long long day for a lot of us but. I just left Mr Jim Murren I want have a special thank you to 2 groups that. We had our 1st responders of the share medical personnel responded but for the fact of the great work done by the men and women of Metro and the security at Mandalay Bay we would have lost hundreds if not thousands more lives I mean they were able to triangulate locate that room and get people in there and saved countless lives and for that we'll be turning to grateful for the work that you did. In conjunction with m.g.m. We did set up with a chef to Go Fund Me a campaign and I appreciate Todd saying something as when I walked in here we have received in excess of 30000 donations exceeding 2 point $2000000.00. What we started it we set the goal of $500000.00 we got a $100000.00 and $1.00 individual called and said I will get you to your goal and he donated $400000.00 that individuals had neither of us until now he is said that we could releases them. Well it was Steve include back donated $400000.00 to support this community we ask you all to support our community and again I'd like to ask you next time you see one of our 1st responders whether Pietro ropy fire or what have you tell him thank you because we owe them an eternal debt of gratitude for what they did and I've got some other speakers commission or congressman Titus and they have a few words to say in a minute well thank you very much this horrendous act of evil happened right in the heart of District one which honored to represent the whole day has revolved around that has been police briefings and talking with the f.b.i. Visiting hospitals all of the the things that kind of are so she said with an act of war but we also heard stories of individual heroism people helping others through the gate over the fans shielding their bodies standing in line for blood Those are the kind of stories that we need to focus on so appropriate that we've ended the day with a ecumenical church service on the strip where we gather to grieve for the fallen to thank our wonderful 1st responders who have done so much in Coronation with each other and just hold hands with family and friends to craft and to recommit ourselves to do all that we can so that this never happens again well there we are then 2 of the more political figures there in Las Vegas talking about the human impact of this which of course is deeply considerable. The clock County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo was speaking a little bit Alyea probably about a couple of hours earlier no saying that weapons were discovered. The House of the presumed shooter the 64 year old retired accountant and property millionaire Stephen Patrick we retrieved in excess of 18 additional firearms some explosives and several 1000 rounds of ammo along with some electronic devices that we are evaluating at this point well we don't know quite what weapon what weapons product that use because the police haven't described them yet fully but. This dreadful carnage involved 59 known deaths at this point and 527 known injuries according to the police now Tony Richardson is on holiday in Las Vegas from Manchester and unfortunately for Tony was pretty near the Mandalay Bay when this all happened Hello Tony. How are you doing. I just want to say. Plays. Like Chinese whispers that was. So different this is why we don't call him. Polish. I well understand that so you were really the recipient of the sort of Chinese prospers where you're at Caesar's Palace you're hearing other people sing. Yeah well what was in was an old cell and what I was so managed. To really to which I had screamed at me because of it just walked to the bar and I was on a machine and just around the scene of the may have a bomb and of Caesar's Palace in the casino and I thought of just disarm blocking about maybe coming down something and also the just all split and when he started screaming there's a shouts of get out of a cow there just follow the line and and it going down it's of base when kids 'd were with other people and there was confusion and somebody said somebody heard gunshots so they were over settings like it was like a tidal wave of people vote we were down there there was confusion reading the way we were in the corridors and some of the people came through and we were about to be let back old man and then another wave of people sites come down say no no no go go go so we ended up going into the elevator which the stuff took was and said You'll be safe in it it took us to a level I was on money's been level and there was a gym and office area and stuff he said to quiet nobody can get any. So he quite safe in it so he was Childers couple children the. Only people 'd so that's about 45 minutes to an hour. And Dick and and a guy called them and announcements and you can knowledge he said you can stay here or you can fill up back down into the casino area he said both the hotel itself Caesar's Palace and the exits and everything on lockdown along with all the hotels . Casinos etc he said but you will not be able to leave a vase you still can that to us turn them on it help us in the morning what time was that that you that this all stopped that. Our this said. Of around with Santa Claus. Stuffed up. That's all fine and where you get I mean given that you know the rest of the world is watching cable news and so on were you able to see t.v. Sets are you able to understand what was happening out there. To be honest we heard it we heard about the shooting earlier on because me mimic Islam sometimes way across the road and then with sameness on the news and say Look. There's been a shooting in Las Vegas. And then make cousin who lives out a lives in California New obviously wasted all the snow that he does for real American fuel because he was out side. Where it was a fuel station and I was feeling the cash as we came into Las Vegas and it was all people from the. Consulate going in and out of the garrison to get sweets tobacco drinks whatever and you know. The may have been. Causing my some. Past and I don't know I know yes it makes you think doesn't it you wonder how they all are now because yeah yeah I mean I actually went down. To the places where there were. A lot. And I went down to get. The wrong place where he was and then I found out that it was that many. There was. Some away. Of all you know possibly the most just stop stop my sequester and I think that doing very well no I take very well on blood donations Plus you've got I hate to say but you've got British blood and if you're alive I don't know if you're alive during mad cow but there are still rules about giving blood if if you were no nothing I wasn't doing mad cuz. I didn't know why would you know then maybe that maybe to save everyone is the thought that counts I thought absolutely That's important thing to relieve your conscience even further well done and when when you you know you you must all still be never so mean we had a little bit from the latest a news conference an assistant sheriff is trying to calm people down essentially say there is no continuing danger you know everybody's Ok people are a little bit on on edge people still wanted. To leave some people have left I don't know how many have an example of. The was a. List of people to stop people strip doesn't look as bizarre very scary but I must say I mean. I don't. I don't get nervous because at the end of the day on the job. Sources around the u.k. So I get into situations like this sometimes I was in one of Paris a couple years ago. But I had to stay with. Us and we've got all we've got all over ourselves and it's with different things and. It's still a challenge to think about we're not going to go these places but. It could happen anywhere basically so I don't try not to think about myself Tony Wishing you all the best sex so much for coming to talk to us You're welcome thank you goodnight and Tony Richardson from Manchester His find themself in Las Vegas in the middle of all this. Well as we had last hour there has been already quite a discussion about gun control others think it's inappropriate but it's happening Matthew Rosa writes for Sal on and he's been writing about the issue of Nevada's particular laws on guns and gun ownership which he says are among some of the loose sister in the United States I asked Matthew Rose. Just to talk a little bit about the guns that Patrick may have used we only know what the police have made public and they are correctly. Choosing to not release too much information because they want to make sure that they have all their ducks lined up before they come forward with an official report having said that there's a good deal of speculation isn't there that he was at least with semiautomatic rifles. That is the current speculation yes if he had semiautomatic rifles and we don't know the number would be legal in the state of Nevada well and this is something I think is important to note the state of Nevada has some of the weakest gun regulations in the United States. And semi automatic assault weapons although they were made illegal in 1904 under President Bill Clinton are actually legal again because that bill expired in 2004 and despite multiple efforts to revive it and reinstate then none of the more successful which brings me to one of the points that I've made in a lot of other pieces I've written about gun control which is we're not dealing with a problem in which an individual state's laws happen to be a little arcane we're dealing with a much deeper issue which is that there is a whole movement in the United States of people who are obsessed with this paranoid belief that the government wants to take all of their guns and as a result they start on chilly oppose even commonsense legislation that could protect people and save lives and why Nevada I mean why wouldn't have some of the weakest gun controls when as we know perhaps not to Nevada's great credit the has been a long association with the mob. I would say that's probably not the reason as much as it is just the political forces I mean Nevada has has a large population of hunters the n.r.a. Has a very strong presence in that state it really has more to do with ideological politics you know there is in the late 1970 s. The n.r.a. Decided to stop being more of a sportsman club and start focusing more on political advocacy and it's really impossible to just place this at the at the you know the doorstep of the state of Nevada it's reflective of a systemic problem in which within American political culture you have staunch and vicious and paranoid opposition to any kind of commonsense legislation yes Nevada has some of the weaker gun laws in the United States but it's not like it's that anomalous there are plenty of states in the West and in the south that also have very weak gun laws so how does the rest of the country go about understanding this you know I'm talking about places like New York and California and so on how do how do they stop looking like coastal liberals who say to a place like Nevada Well you know if you didn't have such weak laws maybe this wouldn't have happened. I would say it's difficult and that's something that a lot of people are trying to resolve I mean look after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in 2012 which was a terrible tragedy much as this is a terrible tragedy President Barack Obama tried to pass very very modest gun control regulation. He wanted to improve the data used for background checks for gun sales. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers increase the number of tools that law enforcement officials could use to prosecute gun crimes I mean these are very modest proposals and yet they were blocked. You know I mean our you know they were executive orders and so a lot of people in the Republican Party opposed them. And you know he also proposed a bill that would have closed background check loopholes that would have banned assault weapons and large capacity magazines they would have and that was also that was successfully blocked in the previous measures that I listed were executive actions that he undertook the 2 that I just mentioned now about closing loopholes and banning assault weapons those were legislative proposals that were ultimately stymied but the bottom line is you have a right wing political movement in this country that operates under the delusion that there is some conspiracy by the government to take all of their guns and at and they teach you in the n.r.a. And other organizations like this they have they promote this idea that if you make even modest compromises with people who want to regulate firearms that's just going to lead to a slippery slope which will end in all guns being confiscated and while the people who hold these views are a minority they are a very well funded and vocal minority and so it's impossible to make progress or at least it's incredibly difficult. Matthew Rosa writes for Salan Well the question of course as to whether if Nevada had tougher gun laws this wouldn't have happened it's very difficult one to answer and it depends so much on individual psychology Robert Kaufman is professor of law at George Washington University. Professor cultural I suspect people are going to be hashing the site for weeks but is the state of Nevada at any particular fault here. No I don't think the state. Of the shooter is it for. Now one of the things that I think we do have to. Step back for a moment I haven't seen the details as to exactly what kind of firearm the shooter was using you know. How he painted from what I could hear it appeared to be a fully automatic firearm and those are very strictly regulated when you can't simply go into a gun store and buy a lot of Alec weapon a little there is some suggestion I gather that he may have taken a semiautomatic and modified using a mod which is freely available to the gun nuts I love 1st 1st of all I guess I'd have to find out if. The case I have to see that verified the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms says that the sale of all semiautomatic rifles in the United States are not easily modifiable so. Once again before speculating on exactly what what occurred I'd want to get some verification from the forty's as to what kind of weapon he used. Was an automatic or did he alter him somewhat you know exactly I think we may be putting the cart before the horse here because we don't really know anything at this point. Let's let's take a further step back I mean. We we know so little and yet we know that the police now say that he had an arsenal of weapons of some description. In Mesquite Nevada. And they have that by now I would have. Gotten to another house he owned in Reno and we don't know what was there yet at least we haven't had. But it is possible in in the us in many states like Nevada to order an awful lot of guns isn't it. An issue of concern in itself. Well I I always thought it's not. The guns it's who's who only from that we need to be concerned with. In a majority of states in fact I think in every state there's no one of those 'd to the number of firearms 1 May own. If indeed one is a person who is eligible to own firearms but it does not have a felony conviction or a history of of mental instability the mental instability question is is a little harder to to get a hold of than felony convictions which is one thing that would disqualify a person from owning a firearm but the fact that someone may have a say 50 guns in a gun safe in his home has is not. What's going to disturb us what disturbs us with we take Fernandez with this individual and appear to have done which is commit mass murder one murder matter and if there is statistics on how common an ownership pattern not as on the words how many people. You know 10 guns 20 guns you know multiple guns and all of them just want to. That's hard to say we don't have we don't have one of that because we don't have. Gun registration in the United States of the figure is that we hear that there are some 300000000 guns in private hands in 'd the United States. And we have differing surveys indicating anywhere from all roughly maybe the highest $3030.00 was a 35 percent to 50 percent of the homes have guns and there's a dispute as to which figure is more accurate but. Suffice it to say watch no gun ownership is quite common in the United States Quest prevalent in most areas. Is it is the focus here on rifles. You know here's somebody who managed to shoot a long distance using some kind of high powered weapon we don't know what it was yet. But in terms of any future you know political discussion which there will be should people be focusing on rifles I mean didn't the. Well action was actually not Louie Louie the cynical of the gun control movement. Which released takes off in the 1960 s. With the assassination of President Kennedy and Senator Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King and other tragedies begins in the 1960 s. And seventy's with a focus on handguns mention a coalition to ban handguns Handgun Control Incorporated and they're focusing on handguns which is in fact a real. Criminal logical problem but as most people were killed by guns in the United States are killed by handguns something like maybe 2 to 300 people a year are killed rifles including these so-called slow rifles in the United States but you have something on the order 'd of 10000 people here who are killed by handgun so you have starting in the sixty's in 'd the seventy's a very strong movement to ban handguns in a sensually sales that is the American public simply doesn't fly it even in liberal Massachusetts there's a referendum in the 1970 s. To ban handguns and its sales couldn't carry the state of Massachusetts but probably the most liberal statement country. What ends up happening is the gun control movement in order ruling viable switches to assault rifles which were quite fully automatic weapons but which are not an assault rifle will sink here in some very high profile tragedies like the tragedy in 'd Las Vegas. But in terms of the actual number of people killed nationwide in a given year. We're talking about. Relatively small numbers of it. Year 2014 for example and I happen that figures. So 148 people were killed in the United States by rifles walk ins the so-called assault rifles hunting rifles what have you. On the other hand in that same year. He was. 912. Killed. By him and. So in one sense we get a spectacular incident and that focuses our attention on. One falls. When in reality they're relatively small part of the problem of. The United States fresh across. Relief thank you very much. Thank you thank you Robert cultural as professor of law at George Washington University and takes us to just after half past 3. This is b.b.c. 5 Live and it's time now for the b.b.c. News with Nick Hatfield Thank you Rob Good morning 59 people are now known to have died following the shooting in Las Vegas u.s. Place of found more weapons including ammunition and explosives in the home of the attacker 64 year old Stephen Paddick nearly 2000 Monaco airline staff have lost their jobs after the company went into administration the Civil Aviation Authority is flying around 110000 passengers back to the u.k. Who were already abroad officials in Spain said they'll do whatever is necessary to stop Catalonia becoming independent the Catalan leader wants international mediation following the disputed referendum hundreds were injured when police use force to prevent people from voting. And it's been reported the American musician Tom Petty is seriously ill following a cardiac arrest it's understood the 66 year old was found unconscious at his Malibu home S'pore now was shopman So I'm sorry wink his 1st senior England call up the midfielder will replace Phil Jones and Fabian Delph ahead of Thursday's World Cup qualifier against Slovenia apps Wembley has all senior football reporter in tennis both Phil Jones and Fabian Delph exerts their clubs after they were assessed by the f.a. Medical staff these latest withdrawals are to a lengthy injury list of 12 that Gary Southgate described last week is really staggering the news will be a setback to both players Jones who was hoping for an injury free run after so many problems well tell through hasn't played for England since 2015 weeks ironically made it the numbers in training with Del full that 2 years ago made an impression will now have a longer period to catch the eye for his 1st senior thought a win will guarantee England a place that Russia 2018 Meanwhile former England striker Rickie Lambert has announced his retirement from football after a 19 year career Scotland manager Gordon struck and says it's up to his side to ensure they have the support of their fans at Hampden Park Scotland face Lavaca home on Thursday before a trip to Slovenia on Sunday needing to win both games to stand a chance of a World Cup playoff spot kind of come along or support you into the game start any rate and the tennis is like going to musical of it's not very good you know it and saying. We are trying make sure that we get on the streets it's amazing what what can turn the crowd on it can be a lot tackles on the chasing a ball doing chasing after the goalkeeper it's amazing what turns are occurred on former Arsenal striker Ian Wright says he thinks Burnley boss Sean died she is capable of replacing often Vanga and could go even further the needs to go at some stage to the next level in respect of a club that can play in Europe on a reg. The basis learned side of the game but because we're so bereft of any kind of manager that's good enough that could take on the England job if he carries on like he is it will probably be pushed into that into that role dodges Burnley side a 6th in the Premier League as they continue their best start to a top flight season as Ben Stokes waits to hear if he'll be charged following his arrest for a.b.h. Durham Cricket Club has released a statement saying it does not condone discriminate free behavior or prejudice of any nature Stokes has been ruled out of international selection until further notice whilst a disciplinary process takes place former England captain Michael Vaughan says the culture in the same has to change I kind of look at same and you know they're good sellouts the play like we all like them playing that particular white ball game it's been a revelation in terms of the way we've played our white ball cricket for many many years this team is doing it differently it's great to watch but I do think they're a little bit loose off the pitch and I do think they can just draw themselves in a little bit a look at the outside and say wait a minute is it the right thing no it isn't let's just do it a bit differently while we're in that same Meanwhile Tom Westley Keeton Jennings a mark would have been named in the England Lions squad which will shatter the senior side during the Ashes Test. Which just. 6. Hours. Was change. The law was just as he says. The family was present See years. Ago we watch. Fox News and the best lodge sport this is b.b.c. 5. It was a good shop. Let's look to the future now with game on there are rom happenings of fruit rebellion games in Oxford. And whatever are they up to at the Victoria and Albert Museum Aparna it's Adam Russia has been investigating the Victoria and Albert Museum when announced its upcoming roster of special exhibitions included an entry the caught my eye video games it read a show which will focus on the rise of the video games industry on Saturday the venerable institution which had we remind ourselves its beginnings in the museum of manufactures which was established in 852 hosted the parallel worlds Game Design Conference and I went along to the curator of video games of the Turin Albert Museum this is the Lydia and men free Dovi lecture theatre where half way through the parallel worlds designing alternative realities video games should anybody be surprised that the Victorian Albert is hosting this kind of and and that you are a curator of video games at the Victorian Albert were given this is the year the 2nd year that we've probably said this event then they shouldn't be they should be surprised but I think it's inevitable that people still are I guess caught off guard by the fact that the museum is engaging with video game design so I don't really expect that some people are probably surprised by that I still get a lot of confusing looks when I sort of announce that yes I'm a curator at d.n.a. But I'm a curator of video games so I guess I'm surprised but I guess not in a way that the medium doesn't have a home here and it shouldn't have a home here but this is the home of concrete arts you know literally concrete arts in some cases or plaster in the case of the sculpture court and reference materials from other cultures and work on is that it was designed to be a No it's actually a workshop of the Empire but part of the workshop of empire it's had to change itself over those years and this is part of that change the d.n.a. Is very much a museum of design obviously also has a decorative arts and a collection engages with other subjects such as theatre performance and photography but it is always been a museum that's in gauged with design and collecting the process of design is well and I think we. You look back at the history the museum you know back to the broader history of South Kensington as a whole and Alpa topple is that there is this legacy of sort of art and technology of Design and Technology of science and design and whilst we now have sort of very distinct museums here then gauging with those subjects the concept of videogames as a medium which is that meeting point of that meeting point of technology makes it worse is absolutely perfect fit for the d.n.a. And so for us it's it's understanding that the v.n.a. Is a museum of design and design process and that's very much what we want to do in terms of reflecting on video games is thinking this is a design medium where we're looking at it as contemporary design is critical part of contemporary culture and how can we use the same methodology in a same sort of approach that we take to architecture to metalwork to fashion to make that process and to celebrate that design field and how can we bring that to video games and bring video games into space which makes absolute sense to Monkhams one of your speakers in the morning session and he's worked to the interface evolved because he was a cartoonist and a satirist and he makes the cabinets and the things that go in his Penny Arcade which I mean nothing really costs a penny on Southwell pier that's the concrete interface of craft an Art and Design and he was saying Julian's presentation with some people who doing explorations in architecture through going making you see oh yeah it's one of the things that say the title of the event being parallel walls that we have very much trying to find the parallels and you don't have to try very hard at the parallels between video game design and game culture and other design disciplines the architecture is very much in games in games it's very much in architecture and so all of this because that we bring together today or people that in some way or another do struggle sort of well stated the day is sort of has its heart set within video games it sort of extends out to everybody who's talking and speaking today people to sort of engage in different spaces so we have architects we have Tim who has a background in engineering and has cartoonist and we have a whole host of different people that bring. Sort of a range of different disciplines and I think that it's not just reflective of the connections across design as a whole but it very much because to the skills and what has to go into creating video games that it does touch upon all these other disciplines the process now this is something is interesting all this is something that interested me in recent days and weeks is the idea around curation and video games there are so many games out there smaller games in the games are kind of stuff and you did a lot of work with the rumpus team the wild rumpus in the mild rumpus and I think several things that getting people to games has become a process of curation by journalists and by people like you working with teams like the people wild rumpus it's old isn't it that we're all in the business of curation at the moment I didn't originally sort of start out or ever aspired to be a video game curator because it was not a role or a concept that I thought sort of existed I never saw myself necessarily working in the Victorian Albert Museum but as you say the work that I've done outside of my role here with sort of one of the founders and organizers of wild rumpus which was very much a d.i.y. Sort of arcade space we did that you know hours after it was no day job that's what we did in the evenings and in the weekends and whilst doing that work we were beginning to think well what does this make our identity what is it we're actually bringing to this field what are our roles here because we're not just party plan is that what is the work that we're doing and so after a while we begin to think hang on a minute this is curation and this isn't curation in a formal sense of sort of preserving what I can think of in a museum context but it is still sort of understanding in media intrinsically and thinking how can you sort of engage people without work how can you bring together in showcase those works and I think what's great now is that I think there is a much Huge a groundswell of people working across this right of different institutions so moma sort of law school and she says that she's Moamar in New York from the Smithsonian to the barbecue and to Acme in Australia who are all engaged with video games but equally you have sort of curation happening in any other spaces as well from say the d.i.y. . I sort of curators such as myself and an equally people as you say sort of working online from journalist people that curating esteem stories I think all of this is speaking at this biggest sort of concept and picture of the fact that we now have this groundswell of people and we're at a tipping point where people are thinking about curation and games and how like it really does fill it with this sort of precipice in this great point where we're having much more culture and Ajman and the more cultural roles that exist around video games you've got a very large exhibition coming up at some point in the none too distant future because it's been announced which is about video games which is kind of there for be about showing people who may not play them or may not understand them or mine or pre-show their cultural value they're going to come here to see stuff that you've picked on you in a team of people have picked and worked on and decided this is perhaps not the best example but this is a typical example or an interesting example of what goings. On could be we have an exhibition that's coming up in September 2018 is when I will be opening and as you say the ambition of the exhibition is that it's trying to speak to a lot of different audiences which is quite a complex task so we want to be able to bring what from sort of really amazing contain previous games to the fans of those ones to get the insights into the designers and to that to the notebooks and to their sketchbooks and to be able to see the work in the process as if there is design is but equally it's trying to as you say sort of speak to sort of wider audience isn't perhaps at the more sort of stereotypical sort of expectation of having a visitor who might not play videogames you might not think necessarily appreciate them and so the work that we're really doing is to find how can an exhibition find and make visible the skill and the detail and everything that goes into making games so that whilst you might not necessarily leave an exhibition sort of playing games that you will have you will have this much much fuller appreciation of the richness that the variety of skills in this sort of. Nicol skills and the sheer complexity and love that goes into making that and so it's very much an exhibition that is looking to celebrate to celebrate its dying discipline and it's for us as well we're looking at the Contemporary we're not looking at sort of retro histories of games and it's difficult because I think if you touch upon earlier that there is a sense of vertigo that we feel it's curators in this space that yes there have been exhibitions previously to engage with games other museums are engaging with this but not in the same capacity as say we do with architecture and so there is so much to be said there are so many things to do and there's a fear when you're curating an exhibition that you're sort of setting up this canon of gains like these are the most important and that's not what we're doing it's like we can't we shit we cannot show we sort of everything so we're having to select what works and where we design is that we think are the best sort of placed for now to be able to make visible and to begin that process of opening up but there is definitely so so so much more work to do in terms of other exhibitions I would love to see sort of follow different paths and go down different avenues so this exhibition for us I guess sort of is the big sort of starting point to set a road map that beyond that I would love to see so many more exhibition of taking on the want that we're doing and equally seeing the work of these other institutions internationally that are engaging with games and I'm excited to see where that's going to lead all the problem with the fact that they keep evolving so you can take a snapshot of a moment in game design and 5 years down the road all the technical underpinnings of all falling by the way you saw it or you've got left is the author assets and the story making or does something more ephemeral happen with games makers and they learn from each other and they preserve in a different kind of why you to other industries Oh I would say a city has been going on research and we studios in exactly as you say even games that are from sort of 5 years ago we are having there are complexities because it's very hard to think about especially the technical side of game design that a lot of the artifacts and a lot of the person this. Becoming ever ever rapidly sort of less accessible because when you think about the technical dependencies of a specific file or a specific walk that even sort of games as I say been made instead of past 5 years you have a loss of some of that history and I think there are some a lot of studios who are very aware of their own history who have these extended histories who have been doing work to which preservation an era where the value of their collections but for a lot of designers I think that's still quite a new concept and I think it's it's also something that institutions have to step up and sort of help in a system find ways of dealing with this enormous complex problem of how you preserve video games sort of history and how you do that not just dealing with sit at that the physical assets in the art but also the technical person the engines and and the visual effects and so on but it's it's a hugely complex task and I think it's only one which is going to necessarily be one that we can sort of take on and deal with the preservation and sort of remembering that history and not in the most complex and. I guess sort of in-depth way that we can by sort of having that groundswell of people engaging with it but ultimately we have to start somewhere and so this is where we're starting and I go bless the game designer in the game developer that learns to archive can keep their work sort of safe from Precious for what they can because it definitely makes our lives a lot. So a year hence We'll be back again with the formal big exhibition and many more things between now and then and should people keep looking at the website and keep following you on Twitter on those grounds of things the best place to keep an eye on what the d.n.a. Is doing around video games is just full of the Twitter account just keep an eye on our website I think things will be really sort of kicking off in September 16th are going to be quite busy between now and then so there's a lot of work to do but just keep it on the website and definitely definitely keep your is sort of I guess sort of peeled that's not the right phrase keep you is. Or to the ground definitely right about sort of September next year when the exhibition will be. Starting and we should be announcing some more details at that come the spring so that's another good time to keep an ear out to all that was the Viennese curator of video games Marie Fallston and I certainly will be keeping Molly is peeled between now and next autumn right sit up straight there's rum and rascally business afoot to. Get out of. The shadow meaning get back to. The servants of the crowd. That sometimes. It is not Entire to protect the world from such autos. On an exotic such danger go and you are fantastic and forgotten civilizations shrouded in mystery said Well who could resist any exportation that includes such a call to arms and of course the use of evil in a trial and joined Tom Rigby from rebellion in his jungle themed outpost of empire and games come a few weeks ago strange brigade uses the sniper Lee engine to an entirely new purpose why is the new purpose what we wanted to take it from the. Kind of slow paced more methodical realistic nature of sniper and Gov with a more kind of or action adventure much more fast paced much more in your face much more kind of close range combat and also try a 100 bit puzzling is large we haven't seen much in this demo but of puzzles to kind of break up the combat as well and taken in much more kind of adventure the fast paced way by going back to the future by going to were 930 style Indiana Jones s. Exploration with a gun type thing yeah absolutely I mean you say Indiana Jones esque I think I think the reason people are saying that is because they we share a kind of common ancestor as it were these kind of 1930 s. Adventure serials really era under them when I say you know exciting adventures in strange places and there's also the kind of Boy's Own Adventure books and all that kind of thing from that era and that's exactly what we're trying to go for Maimie like because it's like not be done before and also because it seems like it's a kind of of a fairly good way of making a really interesting game you know it lends itself to a game with all the kind of traps and mummies and enemies and things like that makes a change from shooting it nonces Absolutely yeah I mean that's half the point is you want to do something different I think rebellion always very keen to show that they're willing to branch out and do different things and this is no exception really and one of the people I've had on my show Cassandra has done some of the background work on some of the characterizations and not entirely familiar with her but I reckon I said name. Of the. Cannibal chef series is all about that of the young canyon run on the uncanny So there's a very nice match up with what you're doing here which is called that's really crafty kind of fail to. A struggling to the names because it's like 6 in the evening but yeah no we. Certainly it's a big theme an influence on the game definitely in the whole kind of style is something we're hoping to wait and aim for rebellions got a reboot of the road through the series right through the game in the works as you guys do your stuff a lot for a small studio I think you'd be surprised when I when other small anymore really were like you know 150 maybe something like got to me I think again we're kind of going to always have a number of projects on the go because you never know when you have more going to get you know one of them might be the next big thing and one might just be a nice small project to kind of keep us going so yeah I think the things that are always very interested in. Keeping everyone working and busy definitely and weird leave God adventure serial style game here you've exploited the IP from the 2000 a b. Back catalogue with. This could end up in 2000 a day if you've got those or strong storylines you can go the other why well you never know do you I mean who are definitely doing a bit of an expanded universe with this we are actually going to release a book of short stories as well you know so recently and who knows what else will do I mean it lends itself to the whole thing I think that's part of the appeal really we did that a little bit with can things like zombie army we had a comic put on things but yeah who knows although it's that I want to see stories from this kind of brigade of people and I hope other people do so and there are an interesting mix of characters you go for main characters who are like they are I can list their names if you'd like they are no new Rashida there's like a messiah a tribal warrior there's a Archimedes to create series and I can't sort scholar or the kind of the you know learning type who can read all the high cliffs and things there's a friend Fairbairn who's kind of your traditional kind of soldier with a rifle you know in there to like get in there and have all the action and then the last one is Gracie Braithwaite. Of engineer type almost like a bit more kind of a I don't. Saltier down to earth kind of from like lunch or same as me so you know I like her there was a bit when I chose her as the character and then we went our you know it's room up north they guy we come across and things are these key feels very British. Secure credit intentional like we really want to kind of get across that fun kind of British vibe of like you know let's go on adventures and you know see what will find it's important not to take that kind of kind of like level where people understand it but I think in general people get out and get that kind of adds to the kind of fun atmosphere game and a fun kind of just the fun spirit of the game really when you announced this just before e free you showed at e 3 I mean what were the Americans thinking what was the American reaction to it I think generally very positive I'm not like I mean if our I don't know or if they actually kind of got 100 percent of it I think they get the idea and I think it's a nice way of introducing them to this is well and getting them to see what we're going for and hopefully look at it further into and realize the history of all this kind of adventure and kind of like style of writing and filmmaking you are one of the biggest holes the games comes again all 8 marks off just over there big Hewlett Packard's land the Nintendo or the top corner of their work I'm going to use that you know you're with the plane with the big boys but you are kind of playing with the big boys by being in this room on it well I mean we do what we can and we try and at least like live a little bit beyond our means sometimes you know we don't always have the kind of the the big east kind of place but we're trying to make it really interesting we've got a blimp up above and everything and we are trying to kind of stand out at least you know you're always going to be with the big boys at these events and we're trying to just hopefully eventually be as big as those kind of without without you know and this is hopefully the start of something like that as well new IP completely owned by the company from the ground up yeah absolutely I mean you know last. Again and again we kind of publish most of our own titles and things like that no publisher kind of coming to us and telling us you know don't do this do this it's all us which is a really kind of is a huge kind of motivational factor especially when you're a designer it's it really makes you think I don't have to think about what will happen when we send this out to publishers nothing but I don't know what I'm going to do that it's really freeing I mean is there a rough e.t.i. When we can expect to see this to play it in an alley out there with here at the moment I have to give the kind of barn answer to be confirmed I just don't know and we're still I mean the lies you see is how far we're still kind of developing it and playing with it and who knows who knows where it'll go really we're lucky in that you've got the engine has your own engine to the and you'll know it from the ground up so yeah well I mean that's the kind of as you mentioned earlier we work on a lot of different projects one of the benefits is that if we can move staff from one project to another and they already know the engine they're already good to go we got like level designers you know who used to work on site say we move demo because that's finished and they did their straight away they don't need to learn a thing it's a very very strong kind of base to have when you say snipers finished you mean the d o c 1st night before was finished when the games finished obviously you move people on from it not like you know you keep you keep people in certain places but we can kind of take people as and when needed and they already know the engine so it's a real real boon your group ISIS in Oxford you've got the board been librarian these collections just down the road did you find as of going down there and looking at the Egyptian stuff and thinking all we can all we can you know I mean we try to we try to organize kind of trips down certainly for the artists that's the main kind of you know obviously encourage anyone to go down or an inspired themselves whether they're writing or design or whatever but the artists do go down and they do try and take photos of things and get as much reference materials they can as we want as many interesting relevant realistic objects in there as possible and that's where they're all stored for the spirit and even if you are just going. Shoot Out them and let the mommies control over them Yeah exactly yeah I mean you want to I want to be a bit respectful of some of these things certainly because they are kind of like priceless in no way but it is a bit of a boon to other nearby in the photo we can just go down and have a look at a guy we could make something like this and stick it in the level of Tom Rigby there escaping the banks of the Thames in Oxford to fly the flag in Cologne and strange brigade will be with us sometime next year we hope the book The True History of the strange brigade is on the blogs for January next year and include short fiction Baucus home decor Guy Adams and Jonathan l. How would. You. Like gang life and with the strains of Mr stanchions decaying it would in a deface rule Enson and bringing in areas I mean. I still don't know I might. Stansell Rawlinson author famous and much loved by Bonzo Dog and well. In the next I will go back to Las Vegas for a little bit of us an update on anything else that's been happening tonight and we have looked forward to the foreign secretaries appearance at the Tory party conference not much is actually known about what Boris Johnson's was going to say he hasn't trailed it lightly but people are looking for something. And will have word about a new attempt to rebuild the world's very damaged coral reefs. And . 4 o'clock am the b.b.c. News comes from Liam Smedley the main news on 5 us police find more weapons in the home of the Last Vegas shooter and in sports a 1st senior call up for Tottenham sorry winks to England's injury hit squad. For weapons have been found at the home of the Last Vegas gunman 64 year old Stephen Paddick shot dead at least 59 people and injured more than 500 others at a music festival before killing himself the Clark County Commission Chairman Steve Sisler the hate that this one individual this lone wolf rained down on our community. College Park was met with an outpouring of love by our entire community and we will get through this together. It will get through this is one community Patrick opened fire from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel towards the 22000 people at an open air concert became a sushi and his fiance escaped unhurt. The sound of the gun shot out of my head at the moment you can and see things you see it and mean it literally heard my soul play watch people be dying in front of me and I can't do anything about it because I have to get to safety I have the courtesy the president to describe the attack as pure evil the Civil Aviation Authority says about 860000 people have been affected by the collapse of Monaco Airlines planes have been chartered to bring back more than 100000 people who were already approved most of the airline staff have been laid off Professor Andrew Ray is an aviation expert in North Africa and Eastern Mediterranean which was Monex just nation areas directly is going down he wouldn't want to fly to those regions anymore once it lost those traditional markets try to look into long haul markets and try to over its way into the western Mediterranean and some very crowded market places all of which have not really been successful Catalonia as leader says he wants a new understanding with the government in Madrid following the disputed independence referendum officials say most of those who voted are in favor of breaking away from Spain a strike will take place in Catalonia today in protest at the police response to the ballots which saw hundreds of people have. The National Cybersecurity Center says it received more than a 1000 reports of attacks in the 1st year of operation they include the recent hack on the n.h.s. The center says half the incidents were considered significant has our security correspondent Gordon Corera you organizations chief executive Kiran Martin told the b.b.c. That none of those reached the level of what he called a category one incident that would be something which did interfere with the democratic system or crippled critical infrastructure like power but he said we should expect such an attack in the coming years Tom Petty is thought to be seriously ill in hospital after suffering a cardiac arrest at his home in California the 66 year old had a string of hit singles with his band The Heartbreakers. And n.h.s. Patients being asked to take part in what's described as the world's 1st trial for universal flu jab researchers at Oxford University say the vaccine should work against most trains and offer years of protection time to the sport now with chap and how he winks is being called up to the injured senior squad for the 1st time the Tottenham midfielder replaces Fabian Douthat and Phil Jones who have withdrawn with injuries ahead of England's World Cup qualifiers with Slovenia and Lithuania Meanwhile former England striker Rickie Lambert says playing at a World Cup was beyond my wildest dreams the x. Liverpool in Southampton forward has retired from football at the age of 35 former Arsenal striker in Rights has told 5 Live Burnley boss Sean died she is capable of replacing Aston Venga a may even be pushed into the England job one day Deitch has twice won promotion to the Premier League with the cleric who are currently 6th in the table and Barcelona president toes that Maria bottom male says playing Sunday's match against last Palmer's behind closed doors was one of the most difficult decisions I've made boss of 13 nil after a request to have the game postponed amid the political unrest in council Onya was turned down this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online the smartphone and tablet and the weather rain clearing in the south over the coming hours with clear spells some showers are likely towards the north and northwest as for Tuesday as a whole most places will be dry and breezy some patch rain is likely in western parts though after Sunday morning it will become cloudy in the afternoon when you see 5 law is you know in the palace and he's 11 to 15 he thinks they're as good as The morning on Am and f.m. Around the u.k. On digital and online I'm Rod shot and we're up all night Spain's biggest political crisis since the failed coup of 1981 echoed around the world yesterday with the European Commission calling for a time from confrontation to dialogue e.u. President Donald Tusk appealed to Madrid to avoid further violence the European Parliament will have a special debate on Wednesday on the consequences of the Catalan crisis as Europe's institutions fall over themselves to make up for their silence before Sunday's referendum which the Spanish government Stretton off as a farce Scotland's 1st Minister Nicola Sturgeon who encourage spade to permit a referendum to take place criticised the foreign office response to Sunday's events a shamefully weak. Well police in the Vita have released more information on the weapons which were found in the 1st of all in the hotel room of the Las Vegas shooter Steven Craig Patrick the assistant Clark County sheriff taught for Zumo according to The Associated Press saying that officers find 23 firearms in the Mandalay Bay Tell room of Patrick and 19 firearms at his home in Mesquite Nevada police also gathered at a 2nd home or and by Patrick in Reno Nevada. To San Francisco Well a Joseph Lombardo the last Vegas Clark County sheriff previously revealed that they found a number of weapons at Patrick's hold and we retrieved in excess of 18 additional firearms some explosives and several 1000 rounds of ammo along with some electronic devices that we are evaluating at this point I've been speaking to Adam Candy the editor of the Las Vegas Sun newspaper and I asked him how surprised he was by this attack we build him up take it for a long time that we were city that could be a target for this type of attack can we pray that it wouldn't be or fortunately that came on perfect looking at the windows flapping I mean the video now of the Mandalay had tell shows these 2 windows which he's a pilot hammered out in the cartons are flapping through the windows and and yet we understand that it took police and swat teams an hour and more. To actually get help there is that been sufficiently. Understood yet I think that time frame might be a bit exaggerated from when the shots were 1st recorded to when they finally got to the room I think they had pinpoint that this was coming from Adelaide Bay But of course you're thinking of a property with more than 40 stories they have to go sort of room by room and figure out where this person might be so I do think it's tension will be paid to that in due time. You know I I happen to have worked in Adelaide a different life and. You know there are no balconies in those windows not open he had to hammer that window open in order to have the opportunity to shoot and I don't know how widely it's been reported but it's a good 500 yards across Las Vegas Boulevard from Mandalay Bay to the lot where the concert was being held can you can you just set the scene for us just a little bit more about how that would have looked I mean we've seen the close ups of the stage and so on but can you help us to visualize it I think when you're there is that the concert goers look and they're focused on the stage and you see the Mandalay Bay in the background I don't think you get a good sense of the scale of how far away it is that was a little bit back from Las Vegas Boulevard sort of on a curve on the street. Almost abuts the airport in town the middle a day especially where the tower is where the gunman is is set a good distance back from the street because the hotel towers sit behind the casino some of them do and so my 1st thought when I heard this that happened was no way was the man able to shoot from Mandalay Bay all the way across the slot I think that gives you a sense of the weaponry that he had available to him and when you hear those rounds being fired Austin understand that it took something of that power. To cause the destruction that he did. And the police have not yet i actually specified the armory how they haven't talked about the guns in specific No And we have not gotten specific models or descriptions that the closest you've received was to know that. 10 of the guns that were in the Mandalay Bay Hotel room were rifles many of them did have scopes with them there was at least one handgun available when the gunman's house was searched in the skeet which is a community about an hour's drive north east of Las Vegas another 18 handguns and I should say hand and firearms were found along with some explosives and as well as more ammunition and just just for laughs at last for us because there's another house involved now isn't there too not just his so there is folks in misc eat so he actually owns both of the houses in question and to secure the Las Vegas police describe it they're ultimately working for Seems they're working the concert site across the street from the Mandalay Bay The 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay where his group was the House and the ski which I just described and a house in the area of Reno Reno Nevada is a 7 hour drive north of Las Vegas almost on the border with California about 3 hours from San Francisco by auto. And so the police last we had seen were massing swat teams and other equipment by that house in Reno and we're getting ready to take that one as well and they have in the case of that they find an arsenal in the House of mosquito. They have they found 18 firearms they found by tree. Which is commonly used to be explosives they found some on specified electronic devices as well as more ammunition we had one of our last August some reporters up in the ski today who had an opportunity to speak with some of his neighbors and those who live on a small cul de sac with him and it was unfortunately something we hear too often and he seemed like a nice guy no one would have expected this and. Of course we have. Had him candy from the Las Vegas Sun Well the University Medical Center in Las Vegas has been working flat out since this tragedy the need to Cohen was working there when it all started and she's with us now hello d.n.a. To hello hello what do you do at the University Medical Center I'm not she's experience officer at University Medical Center so I oversee our team to do patient experience position experience and public relations as well. And how did I did you or your stuff actually cope with the tremendous numbers of people who started coming in what happened. You know this is exactly what our trauma teams train for we are the only level one trauma center in the state of Nevada and and our teams are fully trained and ready for mass casualties on any given night we can have 10 or 12 trauma patients come in full activations as we call which means they are the most critically injured so while yes Last evening we had that multiplied by 10 fold this is exactly what we train for that's exactly why we are the level one trauma center because we have all the specialties available in a self-contained area to be able to take care of trauma patients. But there was a sense wasn't there in which people were having to be triaged I mean obviously they couldn't all be operated on I mean how many people did you see or did you know Dr she absolutely that trust processes starts out in the field where emergency medicine folks to different hospitals and then once arrived at our hospital we also were Triology and just at the doors to our trauma center we did take 8 patients straight back to the operating room because they needed that lifesaving care right away. And tell us a little bit about the kind of interest that you were seeing a mostly gunshot wound consistent with all the reports that we've been hearing about what happened out there you know when patients come into the trauma center our team doesn't say what happened as they say a word does it hurt how can I help us out when the team standing by one exactly sure you know what was happening out there on the scene they were tending to the injuries. Other injuries that would have been consistent with Crush if people had been caught in the stump beat for example but we did hear from several family members. Say they were having a hard time getting getting out of that area and so the injuries would be consistent with what you would expect such. And are your beds full no that. No In fact we are open and operating as a regular trauma center today we have been accepting and receiving the regular a complement of trauma patients if you will throughout the day our patients go up very quickly through the trauma resuscitation area where they are treated and stabilize or quickly moved into the o.r. Or to one of our inside the carriers but that we can continue to receive our patients so so and in fact you've been able to to send a lot of people home who were treated yesterday yes thankfully we haven't us the good news in all this is upwards of 40 patients have already been sent home and reunited with their loved ones so that's the good news today to need to Cohen from the of the ship Medical Center in Los Cabos thank you very much indeed You're very welcome. Well a number of memorial services were being held on Monday evening in Las Vegas including a vigil outside the Las Vegas City Hall when the shooting stops at the final act Jason all the was on stage at the route 91 harvest music festival Janet driver was part of the production crew and she told 5 Live her story I was at the actual concert venue we were backstage the last big star to take to stage and just putting on shows Jason Aldean had just taken the stage that was Archie to start breaking down so we were actually in chair download so the backstage area became very very busy with all of the hired crew people cheering down everything because he was basically going to be wrapping up the show and so in the middle of that I was trouble really the city yards behind the stage and we heard what sounded like Charlotte's we saw that there were fireworks going off and we all stopped and looked at each other we all said the same thing at the same time we didn't know if there were going to be fine words tonight we will concede tries but in our business we just kind of kept moving not realizing that it was gunfire at Chet and there is only a lot of work to keep going and going and then we started thinking oh maybe somebody in the audience has been lighting off site or 'd crackers but then we started thinking maybe it was a safety issue so we did stop and ponder that and Walloon pondering at Immediately we were grabbed by security that said everybody the children there's a shooter alive shooter everybody running now. So at that moment I pretty much can broke out people were ready people were you know Chris screaming and yelling we didn't know if there is any injuries or anything at that point we didn't have any information at all but we did shelter down they put the crew that I was on it put us in the back of threes or type of a truck with one of the big production truck that has a back at the lock down so there are many people locked in this check now and we were only backstage a backstage didn't have any access to any of the actual concert a 10 years it was on the people who were your band members of the artist or farming or their crews those annoying people backstage you have to have actual certification get back to it so those are the people that work and track we were all just as in together I didn't do. They were there for about 20 or 25 minutes into the police can evacuated at least on a Bachelet as we got out. The officer that took us out actually with crying. And physically upset sheriff wet and he just kept saying right here was going to live to literally take one and forcing us off the track. So at that point I went to the next shelter location which was the traditional route where the tour buses were parked. Having gone and I was helping at that point so I was not able to run because I needed to walk with her I didn't know she'd been shot she's kind of hard to talk to my truck she had been shot she but yeah he did and. We got out to the cars and there were people hiding under cars there please helicopters overhead but there was lots of rumors lots of crazy story and we didn't know what suddenly people and all the meeting I had on the ground. There were bodies everywhere. And you know I thought there were literally bodies everywhere when I got to the street we saw police officers on us or we are all clean on all kind of gear. There was a lot came everywhere so all 3 are excellent through traffic there are just people on will call. John driver works for a production company also a music festival with graphic descriptions of the chaos of the shooting started. Well focus is going to be on the foreign secretary of the Conservative Party conference in Manchester today is going to take the stage rumblings about Prime Ministers leadership and not to forget his $4000.00 word article in The Telegraph which seem to be a bit of a manifesto on bricks that our political correspondent Ben Wright and Manchester if there's been any indication of what Mr Johnson is likely to say I'm afraid not we're in the dark they are silent the Team Boris Ditto David Davis is team and Liam Fox the 3 big breaks it is in the cabinet are all making pretty much back to back speeches on Tuesday all about I'm sure Britain's buccaneering place in the prospects it world they'll be scoured for clues as to what they say about how the government will be pursuing Breck's it but I think obviously all eyes will be on Boris Johnson never retiring stage presence of the Tory party conference he knows that a certain chunk of the audience loves him and he will play to the gallery I'm sure while being wholly loyal to reason may it would be surprising if he didn't give his fans just a hint about his further ambitions amazing for one way or another but this is a man who was the author of a $4000.00 word piece in The Daily Telegraph it was like a manifesto for for breakfast. Is that just a thing of the past no or has fun still expecting him to mention a thing or 2 from that yeah a lot but I think Boris Johnson has made it clear that he is willing to stretch the bounds of collective cabinet responsibility further than I can ever remember them being stretched making these public declarations about where he sees Bracks it going and what his own personal red lines are I mean it is extraordinary and I'd be surprised if he didn't underscore those red lines and perhaps embellish them a bit further in this speech and his fans. Then the Tory party will be delighted I think fellow leave enthusiastic will be will be pleased with what he's doing but I must say my my sense talking to some Tory m.p. The ministers is that there is a large chunk of the parliamentary party which has never actually been is as enthusiastic about Boris Johnson I don't think as perhaps the wider membership there's a big chunk of the government and his own parliamentary party who are hacked off with him and they want him to shut up and there is a live discussion about whether to raise a major given the chop or not and that is going on right now in the bars of this conference during the night I'm sure that that will be the main issue on everybody's lips if anybody of course is waving the flag for an interim solution you know a kind of pre-breakfast that Philip Hammond. He got a chance to talk on Monday worser much evidence has of a stance on bricks should. Not a great deal it was a mean it was familiar rhetoric from the chancellor about you know the need to do a good deal that kept things as smoothly transitional as they are now and keeps the e.u. Close but he didn't really I don't think take our understanding of the government's plan much further what he did though I thought that was striking was just a to take on or try to take on Jeremy Corbyn and in the most sort of provide in the most sort of profoundly existential way he describes labor as dinosaurs over their view of capitalism and free markets he called Jeremy Corbin back to the future socialist fantasy system and warned that he was leading the country down a dangerous path now it's extraordinary the Tory chancellor is having to fight on that turf but this is where the Tory party are now they are rattled they're disorientated they see the success that Jeremy Corbyn has had pulling in younger voters in particular robbing the Tories of their majority at the election and as Philip Hammond said in one fringe meeting that I went to this evening he's he's baffled why young people in his view would want to follow the sort of prescription that Jeremy Corbett setting out but that perhaps is part of the Tory problem right now they are battle they don't understand and they're there they're struggling to find policy offerings that might begin to claw some of that bag. And in terms of the fringes like I just don't know how much on the fringe this is we've got the n.p.r. On Monday night talking about Boston and Lincolnshire as an example of a place where there are a lot of migrants all putting our backs into it for the good of the country and saying you know let's let's not think they are clogging up our social services is that a kind of sham troll theme of of this conference or is it just a bit of good. Media grabbing speechifying by yeah I mean look she is I think she's she's I think she's still quite an outlier particularly among the sort of people that would come to a Tory party conference I mean that is certainly a minority view I think within the party but she certainly has allies within the parliamentary party and the fascinating thing over the next few months will be to see whether others join her join her sort of you know join her Crusades and join join the fight that she is clearly willing to have with her own party about the way that breaks it is delivered and I think you know she is clearly one of the leaders of that wing of the part of the of the parliamentary Tory party but so far I mean as I said the there isn't a great deal of non-blacks it policy meeting around but nor is there a great discussion about Bracks it I mean it would be easy to come to this conference and not be aware that Britain is already 6 months into the process of pulling itself pulling itself out of the European Union with the clock ticking very loudly it's as if I mean I feel and I've only been here 24 hours or so it feels like they just want to get through this conference. And you know get back to London and get on with it I think to reason they would like us to be saying at the end of it that she has shown in the party has shown that it has priorities that do stretch beyond breaks it but at the moment I'm not sure they're quite landed that message to the people watching on from beyond Manchester. And right a team of scientists in Institute of Marine Science have found signs of recovery in some of the coral in the coral reef the reefs there were previously devastated by 2 mass bleaching events between 20162017 but not some large coral colonies have produced several small white eggs well cause for limited optimism Neil Canton is the coral biologist involved in this and he's with us know how this content hello or of her very well 1st of all I know that this is a natural wonder but how does how did corals reproduce Can you explain what has to happen. So yeah the reproductive cycle of corals is a fairly long process takes 9 months for the eggs to develop internal. Most corals on the Great Barrier Reef are hermaphroditic Salut produce both eggs and sperm and they release the egg and sperm bundles at one major mass spawning event in nearly spring on her Barrier Reef in November and December so will lay eggs. Will lay eggs mature in some way before this actually happens. That's right so the parent will colonies are developing the eggs packing them with lots of lip is that they use as energy is the larvae develop the eggs and sperm are released from the adult colony and fertilization happens in the ocean happens x. Turnley and that's what we're trying to track now is to see if these severely bleached corals are capable of producing viable eggs and sperm that can turn into larvae to help restart the recruitment processes that are needed to recover from these mass bleaching events that have happened in the last 2 years. A piece I read the other day seemed to suggest some scientists are trying to intervene in the snow and they're trying to grow coral in the La Barra trait with a view to returning it to reefs as is that it's a viable approach. So that these projects are actually projects that I'm also involved with here at Ames and. We're in the early stages we're starting to see that corals are not. Fast enough to keep up with the rate of motion warming that we're seeing and that we have projected to happen in the next 30 to 50 years with the carbon commitments that we're already following so at this stage what what we're doing is starting the research early to understand if we can enhance the tolerance of corals in the lab through preconditioning and exposure of color needs to future conditions in order to really understanding go through this process carefully before thinking about re introducing more tolerant species or or individuals I mean and in see would it be possible to take the fact lies eggs and grow them on in a lab before you you put the might into the wild you know much like you incubate the chicks of a threatened wild bird species. But that's exactly what we're doing not just in theory but in our large aquarium facility here at the National ceasing elater aim so we we take larvae we take parents and we expose them to simulated conditions and we grow those larvae into large hopefully more tolerant adult colonies that could potentially help drive and increase the rate that corals can adapt to climate change and future stress that we project into the future. When when we you know enough about the way that this is working to to say something that might make you know the general public a little bit helped a mistake about the future of the reef so corals are very slow growing most of the species that we're working with will take anywhere from 3 to 7 years to reach reproductive maturity the 1st species we're testing with is a possible a poor that gets reproductive in about 2 years. In order for us to really understand how the tolerance traits are transferred in future generations will take at least 4 to 5 years in this faster growing species so it's about a 5 to 7 year window that we're working with and we're working internationally with groups from Hawaii on these projects in order to really understand how different species are responding to the manipulations in the simulations that we're testing. Well that's not an exciting time for you just now thank you very much indeed thank you for being with us thank you for having. It's just after half past 4. O'clock the premier league for anyone else this is b.b.c. 5 Live the b.b.c. News comes from Liam Smedley police investigating the shooting in Las Vegas say they found more weapons in the attackers home 59 people were killed and over 500 others injured when 64 year old Stephen Paddick fired on an open air concept. They need 2000 Monica and staff of be made redundant following the company's collapse the Civil Aviation Authority is organizing flights to bring passengers already abroad back to the u.k. a Region wide strike will be taking place in Catalonia later opposing the violence which took place during the disputed independence referendum hundreds are injured when Spanish police use force to try to prevent people from voting and Tom Petty the American rock star is thought to be seriously ill following a cardiac arrest is reported the 66 year old Heartbreakers front man was found unconscious at his Malibu home let's get the sport now with Tottenham's Harry winks his 1st senior England call up the midfielder will replace Phil Jones and Fabian Delph ahead of Thursday's World Cup qualifier against Slovenia app's Wembley his all senior football reporter Ian Dennis both Phil Jones and Fabian Delph exerts their clubs after they were assessed by the f.a. Medical staff these latest withdrawals are 2 alone the injury list of 12 that Gary Southgate described last week is really staggering the news will be a setback to both players Jones who was hoping for an injury free run after so many problems well Delfin hasn't played for England since 2015 weeks ironically made at the numbers in training with Del full that 2 years ago made an impression will now have a longer period to catch the eye for his 1st senior thought when will guarantee England a place that Russia 2018 Meanwhile former England striker Rickie Lambert has announced his retirement from football after a 9000 year career Scotland manager Gordon struck and says it's up to his side to ensure they have the support of their fans at Hampden Park Scotland face the backyard home on Thursday before a trip to still be near on Sunday needing to win both games to stand a chance of a World Cup playoff spot kind of come along and support you into the game starts right at the tennis it's like going musical of it's not very good you know you go and dance and sing. And the team we have to try and make sure that we get on at the seams It's amazing what what can turn the code on it can be a block tackles on the chasing a ball don't chasing after the goalkeeper. It's amazing what turns or I carried on former Arsenal striker Ian Wright says he thinks Burnley boss Sean died she is capable of replacing Vanga and could go even further in needs to go at some stage to the next level in the structure of a club that can play in Europe on a regular basis learned side of the game but because we're so bereft of any kind of manager that's good enough that could take on the England job if he carries on like he is it will probably be pushed into that into that role dachas Burnley side to 6th in the Premier League as they continue their best start to a top flight season as Ben Stokes waits to hear if he'll be charged following his arrest for a.b.h. Durham Cricket Club has released a statement saying it does not condone discriminate behavior or prejudice of any nature Stokes has been ruled out of international selection until further notice whilst a disciplinary process takes place former England captain Michael Vaughan says the culture in the team has to change I can't look at same and you know they're good sellouts the play like we all like them playing that particular white ball game it's been a revelation in terms of the way we've played our white ball cricket for many many years this team are doing it differently it's great to watch but I do think they're a little bit loose off the pitch and I do think they can just draw themselves in a little bit a look at the outset and say wait a minute is it the right thing no it isn't let's just do it a bit differently while we're in that same Meanwhile Tom Westley Keeton Jennings a mark would have been named in the England Lions squad which will shatter the senior side during the Ashes this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online the smartphone and tablet the low pressure system the brought a very windy Monday is now northeast of Scotland but the far north of Scotland and Northern are still close enough to get off to a very windy start this morning still with a potential for some gusts of around 5060 miles an hour for a time before the wind slowly uses 1000 acres on around that area of low pressure a few showers pushing into northern and western parts of Scotland today maybe the odd one Russian or. The coast of Northern Ireland wanted to pushing into northwest England and. Most places drawing into the south to really just push into western parts of Scotland away from the potential for Scotland the weather with some sunny spells a north to be mixture of cloud and sunshine across England Wales plenty of sunshine to begin with and although some patchy clouds going to develop there will be long sunny spells continuing into the afternoon mention the strongest winds in northern Scotland it's about breezy. Winds not as strong as they were during Monday when temperatures for Scotland for northern northern England around $12.00 to $15.00 Celsius for the rest of England at around $14.00 to $17.00 degrees in some sunshine not feeling too out about sunshine and certainly in the breeze some with cool temperatures and I'll just close it to average for the time of year now as we go through into Wednesday morning we'll get to the showers gathering across western parts of Scotland into a longer spell of rain in places the wind starts to pick up again and enjoy tomorrow for Wednesday we'll see a band of rain pushing southwards across parts of Northern Ireland and Northern England and I Wednesday night into Thursday some heavy rain across the central swathe of the u.k. With the winds picking up again clearing southward. Still very with. Has been given rather. The government secrecy of intelligence. Finding out what it's like for. Friends and families coming with them watching the . Crowd name but they can't if you go. Because. Pointing out all the mistakes. Please please Keith do you know some of the signs for feelings like parkour. Going on digital a.t.m. . 3. Of our past number of weeks we've been following the plight of Britons are refugees who have had to flee or over the border from Burma and to Bangladesh following filings by the Burmese Army and Army but no Bangladesh says me on my own has agreed to set up a joint working group to oversee the return of the Ranger who've been living in refugee camps and Bangladesh to their homes let's talk to writer Southeast Asia special correspondent Andrew Marshall who has been with their hands or consistently Hello under I I know you got to watch something really unusual which was that the appearance of 2 cabinet ministers from Myanmar in ruins of villages. Yes it's a it's a result of a story 'd that we did a couple of weeks ago where we were looking at one part of a kind states where there were $122.00 little more interval which is kind of off to the current round of violence over 5 of the remaining 17 of the. Occupants driven out and in many cases they've been burnt to the ground and we contacted the people of one of these villages who said that they were running out of Syria they were surrounded by hostile to come to kill and plans were really just for safe passage now what happened was the starting for a few to get them safe passage part we carted off to the limits of actually helicopter into this for a village with aid supplies in order sure deserve protection plans a couple of days ago they also flew for diplomats to this village as well so I think as a sign that while very few of the villages remain in the kind stayed intact the government is quite keen to show her belatedly it must be said. About the security. Did the villagers take this seriously are they still afraid. They're still afraid of it or to put it in context there was a previous round of violence in this area in 20125 years ago I mean there is hardly the range of villages of we left that area and when I was close to a few weeks ago. In the area in recent years made said the letter comes when I asked why it is that it's supplied well because probably the. Level of hostility and suspicion towards Islam in the areas which would stand by many. When they buy gold ask Ahmed says there's going to be a joint working group to study the return of the Henshaw Can you flesh a site for us at all well yeah I think the devil's going to be in the details there are hundreds of thousands of carnival half a 1000000 to come over the last 2 weeks and they join hundreds of thousands more were injured listen to 2000 violence or just economic deprivation and persecution. Or register them to return of the Yemeni government to certainly those are the right noises but you know it really depends technically on loss what of the us to show what the teacher to be asked to show in terms of documentation and many many were injured we are very fearful they won't be able to prove that they lived in Myanmar for generations as many of them have an arbitrator is interlopers and the 2nd issue which which was not mentioned quite yet is the reaction of the kind of reply and say many of them would like to have to see much of a problem with the exodus sorry for. Interrupting and we were to actually talk where they came from originally so you know what's the problem at home and they would be extremely resistant to the winter coming back across the border into parts of them are not supposed to last a consideration security consideration and so the name of government the political consideration. Meanwhile Andrew do run to continue to come across the border into Bangladesh. Later I just spoke to my my colleague about an hour ago. Sitting on the banks of the river separates in front of the ocean Ma'am are you saying that they're still coming over there still thousands coming over with her other pockets maybe 20000. Somewhere another man's land between the 2 countries also it's come over and. The way he described it to me my colleague was that this was a beautiful day but it reeked of a castle that it died along the beach because some of the refugees were in a desperate attempt to save a little good value to have a try to bring livestock over the birds. In the mouth of the birth of the other side prove very difficult to many of the cattle a drowned under Martial rights of special correspondent says he stage a thank you very much indeed because. The Catalan President Carlos push him on says he is not planning out traumatic split with Spain after the disputed independence referendum Catalan official said voters overwhelmingly back to session by the European Commission has confirmed that the referendum wasn't legal under Spanish law Spain's top court banned the vote almost 900 people were injured in clashes with Spanish police who tried to stop it going ahead. So move well Catalan leaders make next door to a girl I'm Carl Montero is a lecturer in Hispanic studies University of Exeter he witnessed the voting and unrest in Barcelona firsthand over the weekend and I asked him what in his view another best options for the Catalan government that's a very difficult. Question because the conflict has the conflict of a situation which I think is extremely conflict has many layers However from . From my point of view I would say that the current government needs to push forward with the idea of declaring independence if they want to have leverage for negotiation However this is very difficult because the. Referendum was carried out or was conducted all you know was conducted in a very difficult way then is it best to call to have full legitimacy to declare secession so there is a clash of logistic legitimacy is both between the Spanish and the Catalan government but also there is a problem in how the Catalan government can. Move forward the situation which is the reason why I think they are talking about intonation and international mediation. I mean from your experience there was this an actual referendum campaign where people advancing arguments on both sides. Unfortunately not unfortunately you know it is true that. Almost no political party can paint for the no dice true because the political parties which were in favor of of the no of all or harbor or which would have supported a a no vote or campaign for a no vote decided to rely on the Spanish legality and then say that the referendum post illegal and that's actually one of the problems of of of the whole situation with that the political party to which would have been thanks for that no be decided to not accept the legitimacy However what's true is that a significant section of their voters turn to the poll to the polling stations on a very difficult day in which polling stations were raided by a Spanish police officers and voted for No So this shows that there is also the grasses and roots of this part it's where we're willing or part of the grass and roots where willing to to to vote in a referendum. Forgive me and correct me if I'm wrong but it would seem the Council on government I'm not. Trying to take start here on they're not going to go out and actually make an independence declaration. To be honest that is very difficult to know it is very difficult to know I mean things change very quickly and in a very or completely unexpected way that's that seems to be a very unlikely situation but. It is very difficult to know with what will happen I mean a generalised strike is a starting in an hour in Catalonia in the general a trike with certain trade unions which can be which our trade unions are close close to to. The Nationalist the mines or radical class you unions of closets and also a lot of civil society organizations have called general strike tomorrow so we need to see how the general a strike unfolds the rejection again the Prestons of falling on each police forces in in Catalonia today has also unfolded in a very unexpected manner people are actually. Concentrating in towns in which hotels have a Spanish police officers and then hotels that are saying that they don't want to have all or to host those members of the Spanish police so while that scenario is that very unlikely things are developing in very likely monor So we still should wait and see I would say do you think. That anger at the Spanish police is a completely mixed up in this issue is this is this going to be impossible not to separate have a rational argument about Catalan independence or maybe maybe even just more devolved parts for Catalonia. Well that's a that's a very interesting question actually because while the Spanish government was willing to negotiate and they have not been willing for for 7 years one of the options for the potential options that this and the Spanish government could offer would be a referendum without a lawyer a friend. Because the question phrased in a way or the answers the. Puts abilities could be 3 are you in favor of still remain the same are you in favor of separation or are you in favor of more of the pollution that would be a possibility with certain nationalist parties rejected because they they would want a yes no vaults because that's a real referendum of self-determination However that could be a middle ground but it seems that that's the most likely scenario to me it is very unlikely that they can spawn each government offers something to all or or enters into any kind of negotiation with the Scotland government or with any Catalan government who we touched a pro independence addenda. Well we also spoke to a business owner named John who lives in Barcelona and I asked John what he makes of the announcement by the pm commission spokesman my greatest sin us that an independent Catalonia would not be a part of the e.u. Even if it did vote for independence in a legal referendum it would have to apply if they wanted to join he didn't sound very supportive he was in my opinion very cold and almost rude basically he said that he was an internal matter inside of Spain and they cannot really say anything still which I think is completely absurd I don't know where they were yesterday because if they see all the footage from images that have been displayed all over the world if they didn't see that. Either they are blind. Or they just. I mean I just don't understand it and it's a European Union we're talking about. Catalonia being still part of the European the European Union and a very important part of the European Union and so no I don't I don't I don't believe that the European Union is is doing anything about it now and when you look back on yesterday and you look back on your own experience what is it sticks I mean can you lay someone up a memory of something that happened. Yesterday that terrible time yesterday specifically for me the most touching moments were seen. Hundreds of elderly people. I will probably say no younger than 90. In wheelchairs with walkers with oxygen masks be escorted by by someone younger. Very hopeful and wanting to vote wanting to wanting to wanted to help wanted to participate. For me it was very touching and it was just it brought tears brought tears to my eyes and every time I think about it. I feel the same way impossible I think to see where this is going to go from here but one thing is for sure Catalans are going to need to convince their fellow spawn years that this is the right way to go how do you begin to do that. Tough question I really have no idea I have no idea I couldn't I couldn't answer that I. The way I spy you speaking to a lot of people reading a lot watching the news as a choice is not the only way is to hope that the rest for Spain is not blind and that they have seen all the images all over all over the not this punishment is rich punish news tends to not show. The truth as it is because I've watched it on t.v. And it was it's not quite the truth but I but there are other ways of seeing these images reading etc etc. I just hope that. The normal Spaniard. Sees this and they will certainly try to to help about it. Well we finished with an audacious the Ask a cold feet which will be attempted by Bruce Springsteen's But again $79.00 sold out shows on Broadway the 1st preview is later today at the Walter Theater in New York he says he intends to offer something raw different from a typical concert and the New York based music critic Jim Farber says that if fans where hoping for the food the street band They Might be disappointed it's meant to be a solo show and it is from all we know going to be something that's a little different than anything we've seen before other words have been a lot of attempts pop stars and rock stars to be on Broadway have been a lot of jukebox musicals there's been attempts more ambitious attempts to have a original musicals. To appear to the actors This does not appear to be any of those things basically it's from what we know it's going to be a mix of songs basic solo songs and storytelling storytelling is going to come from his bestselling book his autobiography Born to Run. And you know we don't know that much more beyond except I know it is going to be fairly intimate and low key from what I can tell the closest role model that I can see for I don't know if it's a conscious role model but I should say that the closest and seasoned would be Ray Davies did a show like this back in 1960 had an autobiography at the time called storyteller and then he began to do a small 2 or which was telling anecdotes from the book in between forming song. Read Davis did show as you say with such a little bit like this this is not the end going to be like cotton at the Albert Hall it's not going to be the fool on Springsteen experiences it's going to be much more autobiographical. It's going to be more autobiographical going to be more intimate and also you know it's it's it's not like he hasn't done elements of before he's done solo acoustic shows before he has although this is said will be different because it's going to be a lot of talking one thing that's different about it is that it's going to be set you know he's known for constantly changing his he has said that the shows will be uniform that there will be you know especially a script. And he will be performing the same song so that's actually something for him that's different. You know so it's you know if it'll be very interesting how it goes with the most promising thing I would say about it is Bruce is a great rock I'm sure you know he's a wonderful storyteller he's been telling long and beautiful and funny and moving stories into shows for years so again he has a lot of practice at the end but I'm sure the stories will be different and they'll take on a different tone in this context so is it possible that you use your experience on let's say a Wednesday night could be different from someone else's experience on a Saturday. Well I think it'll be you know the shows are meant to be sort of uniform but I wouldn't be surprised at that with spontaneity there is always just a difference in the room any actor you know was really working with a completely set stripped set script will tell you that things change merely because of the audience that there will be different energy from the audience so there's always that that's the amazing thing about life 8 or you know you kind of it's set to some degree but you never really know what's going to happen and is it really sold out. Oh yes you know I mean now that you know it's a funny thing in the modern world because in a way no nothing is ever really still there because of the tremendous resale market you know you can call that legalized scalping but because you see should use you know things like. I and other companies people resell their tickets you know so right now the tickets are going reportedly from between well and u.s. Dollars would be like between $72400.00 to $24.00 and also probably be around 2000 pounds I would think so a lot of money. Lots of money and reportedly the actual top price officially is $850.00 go on Lucky dot com Score a. Good one chief one on the day sunrise in Swansea this morning at 720.

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