I'm sorry James I'm scared of Charles you don't seem very excited by what I've just told you. There isn't anything you're keeping from me is that robot to me. You invited me to take on the role of Dr Watson I think it might be a little childish of Sherlock Holmes not to confide any other suspicions. Yes All right James there is one of the lead I'm following and what else you're suspicious of yes yes a bit but since it's somebody I know quite well and since I'm fairly sure it's just a misunderstanding I can clear up very quickly Well like I druther not mentioning any names you know to have checked a few details right that's the way you want to do it yeah ask who you had to check your few details with. Jean Maddy Hello Willie's widow. What do you want there's nothing more I can tell you please just a couple of questions about your husband I think I may be on to something big deal listen Mr Paris I'm very busy I don't want to play cops and robbers and please give me 5 minutes well. All right. 5 minutes thank you very much. Right. I ask. Could have. All these boxes and cases you going Yes The house is on the market I'll never come back here are you leaving after that now I am moving in with a man in the food group in New Castle. Going to miss it Edinburgh Yes this house I hope I never see again voting nice enough Look I never lived here will you only bought it a few months ago not being on tour the only times I ever saw the police it was covered with paint brushes or plaster dust or other evidence of Willie's latest ideas on home decor he had the knack of converting every place we lived into a pigsty he'd suddenly get sick of his surroundings and want to change it all smother everything with paint take over a door knock down a wall and the trouble was he never finished the job which is why this place isn't such a mess oh well basically it's in pretty good condition you should get a good price for it the building society should get a good price for it. Still really must have made a few bob when he was with the band you'd think that wouldn't you but knew he spent it all not that there was that much left after all the agents and managers are taking their bites Oh there may be a few song royalties Still to come but those will go on paying back bank loans and mortgage arrears so you're not exactly left a rich widow Mr Paris I can't believe that you came here to talk Homes and Gardens and domestic economy and if you didn't your 5 minutes and my patients are both running low no I'm sorry but just before I ask what I really came for Tell Me Why Willie bought this house well it fitted the image of what he wanted to be so i'm selfish the great land owner in his ancestral home in front of his blazing fire. Of property. I I really wanted to ask you about Willie's sex life. Tips too yeah. Well of recent years I'm afraid I'm hardly an expert on that no no I wanted to ask you about another woman I didn't take a great deal of interest in his other women I know that when he was in Darby You know when he stayed after the band split up do you know it had to go then I assume so I can't think he stayed for the scenery you know mention ago we didn't discuss our private lives but I believe it was through one of the girl students that you got involved in the made it Queen of Scots you knowing Willie there was more to the relationship than just that he didn't tell you and your 5 minutes is nearly gone Mr Garrett you know if you had a girl around recently I mean in the week before he died I wasn't here you know that what you want me to do see if I found Here's on the pillow if necessary Yeah all right then I would say from the evidence of the dirty laundry that Willie did commit yet another desecration of our marriage bed between a Friday when I left on the Tuesday when he was killed yes all yes he'd had someone here here's on the pillow all the old familiar signs what color has blown 5 minutes. Goodbye Mr Paris we will meet again. And. Could I speak to General Venables please. Charles Paris. To Paris All right you're all eligible. Well to show. Your best. What investigation come on the child and that innocent with me I don't read the papers and I spent a suspicious death in the group working with Winnie Mandela I know you are investigating and you are right actually of course. Not sure I think I may be getting somewhere good and I think I can do to help I mean anything that needs the services of a lawyer detective We also check topples to analyze his men derive you name it I'll do my best well that is something actually that's why I'm ringing I'm afraid it'll involve your coming up to Edinburgh not a possible one of my crimes is in the shop and I say I'm all ready for the official festival of course a client of mine would mess with that French rubbish No no of course not Anyway there's a film contract when I go shooting this chap I could arrange to have to come up and discuss it but I'm good and but he's not tonight at all you mean he's going to be footing the bill Gentlemen I really must say on behalf of the southern Alabama who want me to see what they're paying him for the moving he can set legal services against tax I mean really I'm doing a favor. You know if you really want to get into films child that's where the money is thank you if you're going to work coming up after this week not a lot no other talk of maybe directing had a gobbler at the theater or less at all that it's a good idea Giles I do wish you'd get your career together to extreme general could we get back to the subject yes of course now by the way have you met up with fronts as yet dances John White remember yeah man. Oh no she's coming up to Edinburgh isn't she yes I cared better last week and Frances toter about it all could I sing a school trip to the festival was that it yes oh my God I completely forgotten Do I gather from your turn that you got some interest on the go that well I see look how soon do you think you'll be able to get up there Joe Wed of public and wet her usual magic out at 7 o'clock travel to Costco in a cabin crew out so I'll check into the North British Air travel down to the north bridges will be full we are right in the middle of a festival you know you underestimate Polly. Make sure there are 9 Ok 0 one thing don't have you got a small Cassatt recorder I see him conversation you want secretly recorded you want to I'm well you go on a course I have jobs you forget I'm a solicitor it's a tool of the trade. And I hoped I'd find you here we are hosting up in the men's dome the 2 till 5 then we got a couple of hours in the hole Oh look I am about to mute you coming on the fact of the review Well no that's it you see I actually can't make it tonight would you mind if Nevermind I could do with some sleep anyway there's always tomorrow yes yes I better get back to rehearsal kiss. Do you think you saw us come on it was it me Martin does it matter no no I suppose that what is your Can't you. Hello Tom and James. Yes biota I've spoken to them more than once about that front door if that gets fragmented I get complaints from the neighbors did you see oh it was yes Martin Morton. Talking about Martin Walker I followed him again this morning from here yes he went straight down to the Nicholson Street flat again and came out in the disguise pretty when you go this time the palace of Hollywood types it's bizarre why should he go to the National Portrait Gallery in Hollywood in disguise I have no idea you know Charles I'm convinced Martin's our modern Hollywood house was the scene of David Ritz tacky and I still think there's some strange tie up in Martin's mind between what's happening no and the manic we know Scott story now if that is it's very windy rich it was only the 1st in a sequence a muchness So you think we should be on the lookout for more carbon copy deaths you sound I'm convinced jobs were still following your other lead or did you get anything from Gene Mariella Maybe a few pointers and you're still keeping your suspicions to yourself James I'm sorry but by the end of this evening I will know one way or the other Ok spill the beans what dirty deed have you dragging up here to perpetrate listen gentled is your firm engage in any big food productions at the moment of course we are big film productions of the publisher's bread and butter or perhaps I should say caviar and what are you setting up right now well this is colossal Andreozzi picture we've been getting together for years and start shooting in Spain in October about the Americans are still dragging their feet on the finance I see have you got a stake in the picture the partnership house ah good so you wouldn't be too difficult for you to pose as a film producer I would hardly be opposed. Right now what I wanted to do tonight is go to review called Brown Dobby it's on the Masonic Hall in lowest in place on yes has to get started 11 now there's a girl in the show called Anna Duncan which is a good actress but I mean even if you don't think so I want you to go round after the performance introduce yourself as a film producer and so you'd like to talk to us about a few projects you know would it be possible to me to for lunch tomorrow and tomorrow you take her out to lunch I'll fill you in on what you say to her that's terrific I mean perhaps I could use a false name no I don't think that ministers are. But what we say at the lunch that's the conversation you want recorded Yes that's the one where a child you can rely on me is to cover the city Japanese record right guard I slip it in my jacket pocket and then run the microphone lead up through the lining to my buttonhole and then I wear a combination to hide the actual microphone and Bob's your uncle use it a lot do you know yes Charles invaluable in getting a record of sticky negotiations you are totally without morality onto job well I am a solicitor l. Boy yeah. So I'm combining business with pleasure and meeting a few people enjoying the festival and maybe thinking a bit about coasting for the new movie oh yes that's more champagne Thank you. But not wonderful to write. 5 provinces you just gotta take what you can get yes. It's funny you know in the film business how little things can hold you up. I mean this new movie we've got the director we've got the star signed up the scripts on it 14th draft and any needs cosmetic changes everyone's raring to go and now are delayed because the director confines the right actors for one part. I mean it's not that I don't want to stop but it's one of those it's really telling good for the best newcomer Awards you know and I mean yes the director is determined to get an unknown I can see if he's right but it's on it's own taking too long but he's been through sions and screen test and he's going out of his mind dot com as a girl left in the country is not seen but he still hasn't found one who is right what is the part well the girls. I don't know 20 perhaps and she's having an affair with this complete bastard and James being without actually got at least we've got him signed up. Anyway the James Caan guy to get into a fight towards the end of the film and get stabbed and then the Go has to express is very complex motion. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't be talking like this do you believe me I stabbed him a bit near him isn't it sorry insensitive that Sam has talked about something else . You know I'm sorry I shouldn't mention it it must have been awful for everyone in the group yes it was such a terrible shock even when it's not someone that you you know particularly well I'm going to someone really close I suppose it must be frightening yes that's the trouble every tragedy leaves someone behind I suppose there's some Mariella it was I mean that you were I suppose he must've had a girl's number yes he had to go I don't mean that you yes. Willie and I were. Lovers. I'm so sorry I had no idea I wouldn't raise the matter if I had it don't worry in a way it's better for me to talk about it it's been so terrible since he died bottling up all my emotions yes I am sorry it must have been awful for you to be there. But you do mean that you have stature on a boat and still going on it was still going on. He had been killed it would still be going on now oh God. I feel terrible for having talked about the film because you are an almost exactly the same position as the girl and you except of course that for the girl in the film the emotions even more complex and her lover was a bastard and actually a criminal but of a director I think the characters ever drawn. No woman would stay with him like that I don't know which when he was no saint I knew his faults he could be cruel really evil. Do we keep things and then say done them for me what you mean recently he nearly killed someone for me. Killed it was a girl in our group who would have been in the review you saw she had the part I'm playing. One day I musta said something to way that made him think I was jealous of her but I wasn't when he got this idea in his head what to do he pushed her down some stone steps she broke her leg she couldn't play the parts she was meant. For God You see you were wrong when you said I didn't know what it's like To love a boss did. I do to my cost Yes yes I see. Look I have some more champagne. You were wrong when you said I didn't know what it's like To love a blast. I do. Too like. How I see how you got to hand it to a child she's good at lactose isn't she. Did you God much more oh yes we haven't got the sweet course yet that she did perk up a bit then I bet she did after she'd finished her old dishes well into the next installment which button to press now it's all right I'll do that rather tricky controls on this machine design for a little Japanese fingers you know. That a pretty girl that blonde hair is almost navy blue one thing you know well I thought I did. Well let's hear a bit if you want to go into the professional theater. I had wanted to work for this sort of thing. Didn't have to play had to go. And there was a 2 hour how well my role in the proceedings has just become clear I don't understand is the oldest cliche in the business the casting couch Oh I wouldn't bother to listen to any more of it and it is nothing else of interest. Yes and say nothing else not comes down to a 50. As I say not just what was that nothing there's no point you can't switch the damn thing on. For a drink or something if you do it on the British don't Princes Street. In the bar. Well now there's no need for you to look at me like that but don't get the wrong impression all I thought was if you were planning a confrontation with them you'd want to know where she was and down at the hotel would be join a convenient time if I happen to say come you didn't think I would. Well I mean I'm a married man Ok to not have a perfect relationship and I would hate for ever to get any. Hello. Chas. Who I thought we'd fix to meet up with the fact yet. Just as well I've seen to actually be because I would be there to later I've got to meet someone in the North British hotel Yes I know it's an old of mind is only up in it but very briefly you're visiting your own top Osment I'd be rehearsing all day there's been another opportunity. I'd get back to the flat as soon as I can prove they are lying you're going to the North British to see General Venables you're going to see him because you think it's a big film producer who can help you with your career and you're probably planning to go to bed with him in the same way that you went to bed with me. Because I sometimes direct plays I see. You said Gerald that Alyssa Yes I did and he isn't really a film producer the part he was talking about doesn't exist is a sort of occasional film producer but no the part doesn't. That was a dirty trick because suppose I should have realised it was stupid to get involved with some of your age old men always get clinging and Jenna Oh good God do you think I set all this up just to some elaborate Sharod to test your affection for me to come think of any other reason why I should do it I suggested up to get certain information from like well like the fact that you and Willie Mariella were lovers at least he was my age you see you are jealous jealous of someone who's dead. Anyway it was all over with Willie and me it was just something that happened while we were indulged you told that it was still going on when really dud you have been spying carefully haven't you. That was true I just said that to sound more like the girl in the film I wanted to do and really stood up did he wanted to end No he got clinging to keep doing things to try and get me back things like nobbling Leslie so that you got her parts in the show that was about Willie's level of subtlety did you suggested I didn't not you didn't mention that she was playing a couple of good parts that you would understand you. May have said that yes but I never until you know of course. I know you're in serious trouble. Do you me know it is a serious business. Are you accusing me of not. Yes. I am. In part 4 of so much blood from just Matthews was Charles Paris James Milner Alan Northam Anadan can him Tom some general Venables gentleman child Jean Mariano Francis Lowe. So much blood was adapted from his book by Simon Bret and produced by Martin Fisher. And you can hear the penultimate episode at the same time tomorrow. How do you fancy a double 07 debut for Christmas across next week will bring you 4 feature length classic James Bond dramas From Russia With Love Goldfinger Moonraker and Thunderball the Western world is in jeopardy can James Bond prevent nuclear disaster it's a very great conspiracy I am actually here to find out things from my government people will die unless you help to prevent it is this why you make up to me to make me do what you want and now you blackmail me with the death of my brother I hate you i hate you I hate your brother was killed goes organise what I actually came here to tell you that but then. I. I should've at the strength to stop it I didn't starring Toby Stephens as double o. 7 James Bond Thunderball this Christmas Eve and 3 o'clock. They sound things down. Things best left undisturbed join us and b.b.c. Radio 4 extra for some terrifying tales you want to write things that home people or that linger in their imagination and someone writing insights from the League of gentleman Jeremy Dyson he can make you laugh or perhaps make you scream such a visceral forms Hora just like comedy it bypasses the intellect try. On telling tales this Christmas Eve it 11 and again in the evening at 9 am people see Radio 4 extra. This is b.b.c. . Extra. In a church in America's deep south there's a stained glass window a gift from the people of Wales it was inspired by one of the darkest days in civil rights history back in 2011 the Guardian's New York correspondent Gary Young set out to tell the story of the Wales window of Alabama. A I know saying you know all that Windows is probably the most photographed item in the sanctuary. Was. So if you want just talk about political imagery in the 1960 s. This should really stand out as one of the key wets of the era. Being a native of Philadelphia Pennsylvania I would say that this window. Is probably as iconic as the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia. Was Churchill was Meet the world. Have arrived in Birmingham Alabama that provided some of the most iconic scenes in the civil rights including the matter of 4 young girls who were bombed to death they attended Sunday school at the sick thing Street Baptist Church now I've been to the south many times I've written a lot about the civil rights here including a book and I've even attended the service of the 16th Street Baptist Church but what I didn't know as I sat in the pews was that behind me was a stained glass window which was a gift from the people of Wales to the congregants of the church. It's one of the most powerful images in a civil rights era and this is a story of how we got there. The wells window is located in the balcony of the main sanctuary in the center you're standing in the pulpit you see it dead center in the balcony and it's a very large powerful the picture. And of a black man in the south suffering as Jesus Christ did on the cross with hand stretched wide had battled the way Jesus was on the cross but the right hand. Pushing outward to push out a trip in and justice and the left hand open upward open for forgiveness and love. But there was precious little forgiveness all love on display in Birmingham in the months before the church was bombed in 1963 do you think you can keep bombing in the present situation of segregation. And did as it is not. I may not be able to do it but I tried bumming homes public safety commissioner Eugene Bull Connor held one of the most important posts in the city much in 63 the impending hand became synonymous with both resistance and racism locally the 16th Street Baptist Church become headquarters for an increasingly militant civil rights movement during the spring nationally the March on Washington where King delivered his I Have a Dream speech had provided the country with a utopian vision of equality in oldest but barely a fortnight later on the morning of September the 15th a horrific and took 10 Mackinson took place during somebody's school class news editor of that were killed. That I'm talking to kind of the McKinstry who was in the 16th Street Baptist Church when the bomb went off in this group can trick Can you describe that day when the bombing happened Iowa rabbit church about 930 and about $1015.00 I left my class and was headed up stairs which is where all of the adult classes were now to come up stairs you had to pass the girls' bathroom and this is where for France were I spoke to them that morning I was excited because one of the girl said she and I were in a club together and we had a meeting that day and it was scheduled for 3 o'clock so we were looking forward to this little social gathering where the club was and the name of it was the camp up and it was young girls pretty much our ages $911.00 great and we would gather every other Sunday or so at each other's homes and drink Kool-Aid and play records and sometime we might dance and so for so as I left the bathroom and went upstairs the phone was ringing in the church office so when I asked the following The caller on the other end said 3 minutes and as quickly as he said that he hung up 3 minutes 3 minutes. And that's all he said. And as quickly as he said that and hung up I stepped out into the sanctuary and took about 15 steps. To the point where I was when the bomb exploded. Friend Cynthia Wesley wasn't the only victim 3 of the girls women at that. Count Robertson and he may Collins who were also 14 were killed along with the me smooth man he was 11. I'm a sister Sarah Collins survived with terrible injuries she lost an eye she was 12 church bombings were not at all uncommon of the town Birmingham alone injured 50 of them all unsolved but this was different it was the 1st one where anybody had done I'd They were children and they were in church a place of sanctuary. Even for many diehard segregationist this was important for the rest of the country it was beyond the pale the tragedy to does a catalyst for the Civil Rights Act was passed the next year but the outrage wasn't confined to the United States the revulsion was global 4000 miles away in Wales artists jump pets the knees there's a recording of pets at the Imperial War Museum he describes how we listened to an account of the bombing while he was in the studio now it so happened working away on a Sunday afternoon the radio news was playing and I learned that a racist bomb had been thrown. In Birmingham Alabama exploding killing instantly 4 young girls and partly wrecking the church smashing every stained glass window and naturally as a father I was horrified by the death of the children as a craftsman. I was horrified by the special is with me. And I thought to myself my way we do about this. I consider that we have separate Mining's Catrin I'm jumping groping and warm words normal to be looking at things constantly all make. John 2nd so he would get very emotional about his children I remember just sitting around on Christmas day for lunch and he just burst into tears you know you see your parent in tears and it shocks you and he was just overcome by the fact that his 3 kids and his wife are sitting there and he could be disconnected we're used to hearing virtually every day some instance of a suicide bomber with numb. By constant media relating all of these events which are far more global than the types of reporting we received where that moment in time I think was called a turning point close seminal event. Back. Oath or an idea of love and it's nice to knock off the. Chart of the glass used when I was window still live in a shed in a canal that would have been a piece of it he used a lot of that. Jumps with Emma recalled how John's then wife pusher problems him into action in his extremism upset and passion and anger rushed through to the kitchen where question his wife was and started sort of you know letting out his feelings to her and obviously she agreed with him and so on and he did this a few times talking to her about it then going back to the workshop and then unable to settle to any work going back again into the kitchen sink What can we do is there nothing we can do and surely you know I might be able to do something and then going back to the workshop again and then the last time he went into the kitchen cushion at her this difficult time he was having so many times that she said to him a No I'm certain terms John either do something about it or shut up so while others might have heard the terrible news and brooded on it pets wife and this conscience conspired to force him to act he contacted an old friend David Cole who was also the editor Wells's Western Mail newspaper together they hatched a plan. He opened a fund to replace that great big smashed window of the west end of this church with a stained glass window a gift from the people of Wales a national gesture of goodwill and he invited subscriptions. No one has killed more than half pound He said We don't want some rich man this is just a pain though and we want to be given by the people of Wales he opened a fund straightaway the gifts party probably people of all denominations from Christians Jewish people from Catholics and atheists. And people who have no beliefs to further cross-question of children both black and white trying to conduct talks and killing up at last to Madoff says handing over their pocket money. My name is Alice and Smith and I'm the curator at Tate Britain I've also assertion written about the art of John pants once the money had been lazed by the campaign launched in the West male. Pets was asked to go out to Birmingham to meet the pastor of the church John Cross to decide upon the design of course of the tension in Birmingham the time of when the civil invites moved to its height these have to be kept quite quiet as a secret mission so when pets and to the States the New York he just said he was on holiday he didn't actually mention the destination of his journey but while he was in the state he met teaches him at the congregation he went to church services you know he prayed with the community he was also struck by the harsh facts of segregation. That spark History Month and Mark Smith the King's voice is resonating throughout the Birmingham Civil Rights researcher. My name is a modern ward and I'm the head of education at Birmingham Civil Rights and can you give us a sense and in 63. Of the degree of racial tension that was in the city Birmingham one of its nicknames or in the early 20th century was the Harrisburg and south so these Sergejus here was akin to apartheid's. There and every aspect of life in Burma here. The fact they were doing an interview right now we have mixed group here we could go in the city of Birmingham 47 years ago 40 years ago just by having this interview. And I had to wheel introductions to segregation in Birmingham one was when my grandmother was denied admission to a hospital here they brought her here and she was placed in the basement of the hospital and that was where she remained until she died I was the only girl in the family at the time and so my mom wanted me to sit with her so she wouldn't be alone . In a basement for 2 weeks with her and looked at water pipes and other kind of pipes on to she died my 2nd introduction into segregated life was when I won the city county state spelling competition but black people were not permitted to go to the national competition either. McKinstry was also denied entry to the University of her choice even though she was a great student it was a civil rights movement strategy that in Birmingham young people would spearhead the demonstrations because while they use made them feel less unlike their parents who have jobs to keep they had nothing to lose. The Blake discrimination may faced shocked parents but ultimately it also inspired him. I mean Kelly and grandpa just across the road from the 16th Street Baptist Church and I'm surrounded by statues there's one of my Melissa King a many others the pay tribute to the young people who were attacked by dogs and water cannon as they protested against segregation and it was those protests when broadcast on television the made Birmingham infamous throughout the world. And I'm talking to Dennis Mallory who is a tour guide of the 16th Street Baptist Church you were a young protester in the early sixty's here in Birmingham tell us a little bit about what it felt to be a young person here at that time when we left who to participate in the demonstrations it was one of those things where you know if you were in screw you and your cousin your brother your sister your best friend left you you left you with them you know me and my friend says Ok we're leaving and when that day came we got up and we left and we came knowing that the purpose was to go to jail. And that unscathed did not scare me because I was with people that I was with every day and in our situation I think my school had about 300 patisserie plans in the Children's March and as it turned out I got arrested and was in a jail sale there were 12 people in the jail sale 11 was from my school. Allison Smith explained how the searing image of children being attacked Tamminen dogs inspired the shape of the final figure in the whale's window. Now pets experimented with all sorts of ideas with Christ at one point he moved away from the idea of a figure and how to tap a street composition which was in blazing by symbols of peace which is dolls with quotations from the Beatitudes but he felt this was rather an a dine and benign and not really pungent enough given the circumstances so back in Wales he worked on other conceptions and ideas and in fact his inspiration came to him from news footage he had seen of demonstrations in Alabama and burning and a few demonstrators being hosed down with water jets and being someone who was they familiar with human anatomy pets had the understanding that if you actually attack someone with a waterjet at the lips not mine you smash the ribs to pieces but it forces the arms of the body to go above the head and the whole figure gyrates and he couple this idea with other photographs he had seen of demonstrators being attacked with bullets at places like shop for in South Africa in the apartheid demonstrations of the same era and he combined the idea of water jets with bullets in the final image perhaps was also influenced by his experiences during the 2nd World War He'd been a conscientious objector but in 1944 decided to join the Royal Army Medical Corps where he became fascinated by the suffering male body the figure in the Alabama when I was supposed to represent any one of us he might be a murderous old. But with these spread as the woman crucifix he's often seen as Christ a Christ significantly who is black. And his pictures of the aftermath of the bombing were all the windows are blown out as the clock that was actually in the church The only time the bombing in a Stop exactly at $1020.00 to the time the bomb went off I asked Reverend price about the symbolic importance of the figure this race the boldness of having a black Kreiss speaks volumes for African-American community that's not a stretch at all but for many people in the white community don't have time to say Jesus Christ was black and of African descent would be blasphemous and I think the major message which I take out of the window is not so much trying to identify a crisis color but knowing that Christ identifies with us to the white community is that the Jesus that you love identifies himself with the African-American community so you are really crucified him again when you persecute someone who does not look like you how many of your congregants would know that that's the story of them when no. I was 80 percent what does it mean to them I'm struggling I'm I'm thinking that whiles is already a kind of fairly abstract idea for most American people if even an abstract idea for some people or Britain to be honest and the idea that these people in a place that you may not be out to pick out of a map right have heard of your plight even though they couldn't pick us off a map and decided to give you this country what. What does that mean one of them did I think and 63 many of our congregation couldn't pick wells out on a map but again what the invasion of the Beatles they having that we knew were angling was so they knew there was across the pond they knew that this gift came from a very far distant place and have such an impact that people who can see the injustices and wanted to make a contribution and say that the things that were going on in Birmingham was wrong and agree just I think been a whole lot to us and I think that they breed hope and to our community that you can paint you know all white people with the same broad brush that Birmingham was not the norm they were definitely abnormal and if other segments of their community could recognize that this was a right maybe a light bulb go off and let them also know there was a right. I mean the civil rights Institute's gift shop and I've got a book here Birmingham someday which has 2 images on the front cover on the left is the devastated church after the bombing. On the right is the wilds window and it's these 2 contrast images one of devastation and the other of renewal and hope I'm Kathleen Bunton and I'm a member he had 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham all my life I would it surprise you that people so far away in a place that I'm assuming you knew little about would have some lunch. Yes they did as a matter of fact I was surprised that people cared about blacks out together. With whatever happened to black people because of you hitting counted the situations they were going on here and was as if nobody cared. And now because you want to know that God cares and he loves us. But to think that another race will respond to this was very moving for me did you know anything about wells and so on no I did have absolutely no knowledge you know much but I was not that much but I've done some reading since the and it says then I have every a lot of information about me. At the time of the bombing this area here we came down the staircase from there all the way through to this point and if he hadn't said turn around I don't know if I would have I probably but. So what do you think about. Europe or love the blue it's so hopeful he looks very hopeful with the color blue and and with the arms open so wide that's what touched me the Open Arms It just brings a message of grace to me. That looks like he's reaching out to the world. And I just tell you the story it's quite interesting story the head about the food being high. Wanted to do something. And so this is what he did and he got the people of West to donate a little bit of money and couldn't donate more than a certain amount it was a newspaper campaign said that one big financier could just do it and then he gave as a gift from the people of wells. You can't fully see the scripture from here but it says you you do want to me we can see. From this done it was installed in $65.00 This makes even more meaningful that it's people from out of this country that heard of such a horrific incident that wanted to come together and show their love. The symbolic complete skill importance of the wells window is evident to all those he sees me here with story that congregants of the 16th Street Baptist Church Oh visitors but one of the man who made it what did pets think of the final product I think in his view he felt it was the work he would like to be the man that by because they had an impact outside of its immediate context and chickie outside of Wales it's the work which made him an artist of international standing. In the middle would and. Is of course right above the Holy Ark with scrolls look at the Torah and therefore after the wells when the pets called him other great commission obviously his other great work it's in the broad nimh of Reform synagogue run by Charles Wallace along with his wife Marilyn and when he saw can you coordinate school visits to the synagogue described him didn't you say that every tradition has a story the story goes at Mark because he'd already done the one at launching college the story was that he was asked whether he was interested and he said no I'm too old and and then the commission went to. Tippets he was in the Army and he was in one of the divisions that liberated the camps at the end of the war and he was very moved by what he saw and wanted to do something for a Jewish community somewhere and there's a further symbolism of the Holocaust in especially in the 1st lot of pictures if you look very carefully you'll see a barbed wire towards the bottom there's a kind of symmetry of pits to great works wonders for a church bomb by extremists and you have a 1st synagogue to commemorate the horrors of another kind of extremism never self publicist pets never game the renown he was due Moreover his great works column hanging galleries no can make you want to talk you have to go and see them but these are dolls have a juror book quality assert the wasn't lost on him or his son make one of the things he was immensely proud of was this element of cross watch and the fact that he was following in a tradition of stained glass makers which goes right back to the medieval period and the whole building like of these rules and having and he was always conscious of the fact that those windows would have lost not just in terms of his last but in terms of you know generations of people seeing and experiencing those windows which. Is not the case. 'd the why was window represents an impressive act of empathy and solidarity between pets and the people of Wiles unbending homes black community the chance Boma Robuchon Bliss was not convicted until 14 years after the fact Thomas Blanton a fellow Klan member and accomplice was only brought to justice in 2001 so what a crucial moment when African-Americans felt the seeds and isolated this gift from a far away place was a tangible reminder that cries of frustration but reason and resistance have been had an ocean away by people in a place few could even pick out of a map to Reverend Dr Reynolds minister of music at the 16th Street Baptist Church this is the engineering universal power of the wind I think it's wonderful that people have around the world would choose to. Affiliate with both the accomplishments and the disappointments of African-Americans. And not just here at 16th Street but we now need to we need to do some Stranglers Wenders in places like Southern so day in places where there's still man is being very cruel to other men and women and so let's not just look at the wind let's look at the world now because there's still some very difficult place and people being mistreated when you stand up there obviously not when you're leading a quiet when you're singing and you're looking straight down it went out the window and does that have any particular meaning when you see any particular inspirational it just reminds us that the world is smaller than we think. And that their brothers and sisters somewhere else who thought about us. To meet. Their. And. Seeing. The whales window of Alabama I was presented by Gary Young It was produced in 2011 by Nicholas awards the American material was gathered by hundreds. Desert Island Discs revisit it on b.b.c. Radio 4 extra and you went on stage yourself in the 1st place in your piece and it was what was your finest hour that would be hard to say I think Dracula was probably the native and I can remember sitting in the dressing room and just preparing to go into the wings to stand above a smoke box and collect enough smoke to walk onto the stage in my cloak and then release it and going to sitting in the dressing room and hearing over the tannoy the laughter My friend fell of the law and I thought she's laughing even before I come on. I didn't in one article about you something that makes you so slightly unusual apparently you had to ambitions one was to get a play performed and the other was to get married which is absolutely fine except she was $32.00 at the time I was and I'm a late developer I think almost everything is happening like I made a resolution that year that I would get a play on and get married I had no prospect of either I didn't know who I was going to marry not didn't know how I was going to get a plan but they both happened and she was practically the girl who'd lived next door all your life. Going out with my brother before me but my brother was pinched by a friend she brought along on a date and it took you a very very long time before you managed to write a play but you did in the end and you want to competition with it that's how you got to fulfill that ambition isn't it b.b.c. West regional competition they're having for playwriting and I had never seen a television by that point in fact I'd never seen television but yeah it was this and 3859 I was very snobbish about I think everybody was snobbish about television now there's an old joke because the aerials in those days were shaped like ages we used to say that people who drop their edges put them about their houses. How snobbish to. Is know if it anyway in the end you did it you did it and you won but what you really wanted was was the theater what you really wanted was a live audience wasn't it that's always been the most important thing to you was right yes yes I don't know why something and to me about fear for the history of there and I can't get rid of all the slack on the current rash Desert Island Discs revisited on Sundays as a quarter past 10 in the morning and again in the evening at a quarter past 9 on b.b.c. Radio 4 extra. This b.b.c. Radio 4 next and. It's 2 o'clock this is Neil sleet in 15 minutes David can a dining examines the image of British prime ministers through their props today the changing significance of Anthony Eden's Homburg hat and then Julian run Tut Seeley Emery and Adrian Scarborough star in an inventive dramatise ation of Nigel Slater his food memoir chocolates least favorite sweets and funerals occupies time in hunting for England in half an hour. But 1st one continues reading the wolf border by the award winning Sara whole Rachel came single Proud a wolf expert has come home after all her mother's death and the surprise discovery that she's accidentally pregnant changed her mind she's accepted the eccentric Earl of Anna Dale Thomas Pennington's offer to manage a project reintroducing wolves to England on his vast Cumbrian estate on a 1st evening she's been summoned to dine at the big house. A moon faced woman answers the front door of the hole tall and slender blankly beautiful she introduces herself murmuring Lee as Sylvia the girlfriend of Thomas Pennington her ups as she is very young the young woman shows Rachel through to an unfamiliar drawing room the l. Thomas greets her as if they have known each other for decades Rachel wonderful to see you again he kisses have enhancer a flute of champagne you've met Sylvia my youngest daughter Rachel feels immediate relief I've got her for the holidays what was Paris going to do with her anyway she'd have come back terribly angular and filled with on we Sylvia smiles at her father fondly collaborative it could be a scene from the back pages of a society magazine Rachael things who are a parody she cannot imagine such a relationship with a parent the oldest son Leo is absent there a dark room as though it is hard to imagine rifts in this family Thomas raises his glass is Rachel now Sylvia has a question for you. I'm taking the gear out before law school and I was wondering Sylvia gives a theatrical little pause her eyes wide almost Dawlish I was hoping that I could be on the project with you I can't imagine a more exciting thing than voluntary and there is a pause this is the last thing Rachel wants or needs she tries to imagine the girl in mock covered boots and overalls have to day carcasses. Well she says that's an interesting idea I mean it is putting the team together so let's come back to it once things are underway well dressed grey had guests arrive retiree's and the District's rich Rachel meets the local vet Alexander Graham who will be responsible for monitoring the wolves over the corone 1000 period before release and will help with the implantation surgery he has the cut of a country that fully capable of wrestling out breach carves he seems out of place like the less awkward and Riley entertained by the proceedings a waiter calls them through for dinner. The core scene is exceptional have pâté local freshwater char the Rachel has much of an appetite and hopefully through dessert when she hears the sound of Ritter blades moving up the valley this running intensifies and the craft puts down on the head a pad behind the stables and a glory of noise Thomas Pennington drops his napkin and excuses himself 2 minutes later the prime minister and his with Thomas Pennington by his shoulder it takes a moment for surprise to register fully and Rachel Alexander catches her I didn't interrupt a delicious dinner their host stands to lead to toast ladies and gentleman the gray wolf as you come home.

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