Wellness before he raped a murdered a teacher and the Cabinet minister Penny Mortons has refused to back cerise amaze plan for breaks. There's fresh evidence to support claims that the 2nd suspect in the souls brain nerve agent attack was a Russian military doctor called Alexander Mish when journalists from the investigative website Belling cat identified Michigan as an agent with the Russian intelligence service the G.R.U. B.B.C. News has now spoken to people who grew up with Miche kin and have confirmed his identity his our Moscow correspondent Sara Rainsford but he may Putin's spokesman says if the British government has evidence it should be submitted through official channels for Russia to consider as evidence grows that the 2 men captured on security cameras in Salzburg were agents of Russian military intelligence the man who was paraded on state television here as Alexander pitter off has now been identified by Belin cats and others as military medic and spy Alexander Mishkan the B.B.C. Has since contacted 2 people who knew Alexander Mishkan growing up who confirmed from photographs that he is the man seen in Salzburg one who went to school with Alexander Mishkan remembers him as a good student who likes computer games and round the village disco a firm has been stripped of N.H.S. Contracts after hundreds of tons of waste from hospitals was allowed to pile up at its sites the government says Noor ancients of be made to replace the work carried out by health care environment services the company says the case highlights the lack of incinerator capacity for human waste. And independent report has found that the man who strangled a teacher in a sex attack had previously told N.H.S. Staff that he had fantasies of raping and killing women call Langdale was jailed in 2016 after missing the murder of Casey Locke the regional medical director for N.H.S. England Dr David Levy says agencies failed to work together to intervene Jaring his care certainly there were shortcomings and opportunities that were taken to understand that the complexity of this patients problems and gather information from the various agencies including the. The health trusts the police and other services to form a full picture about the condition of this patient and the care plan that was required to kape am safe and others and members of the public safe as well the International Development Secretary Penny Mortons has suggested that Cerezo may will have to amend her proposals for break says to get a final deal the former breaks it Minister Steve Baker has suggested that 40 M.P.'s could be prepared to oppose any arrangement that keeps Britain too closely aligned to the E.U. Miss Morton said Mrs May was working for the best deal for Britain but refused to explicitly endorse her so-called checkers plan the prime minister can count on my support but what I would say is that we don't know where this is going to end up I mean we are actually critical moment now the issue currently is that the ball is firmly back in the E.U. Court we are waiting for them to respond so I think that we need to do is just support both the PM but also don't rob the negotiating team the day U.P.A. Leader in Foster has again warned she won't support any breaks it deal that could lead to new economic barriers between northern islands and the rest of the U.K. She was speaking after a meeting with the E.U.'s chief breaks it negotiation Michel Bania in Brussels the government is expected to give details of its border backstop plan in the coming days. Drivers in London Birmingham announcing a beginning a 24 hour strike to demand better employment rights unions are urging passengers not to use the mini kept piling app describing yes as a digital picket line the action has been organized by United private hire drivers a branch of the independent workers' union of Great Britain its founder James Farah is a former driver we need to see the fares risen out of poverty levels there are 125 in London at the moment for example we're asking that to be risen to 2 pounds. Reducing its cost that it takes it takes 25 percent of all the fares at the moment we're asked. The matter is you start to 15 percent. We're also asking for an end to unfair dismissal and finally we're just asking you to repay that in a statement Seaver said it introduced a number of new protections including sickness and parental benefits and it constantly trying to help it strives increase their earnings a caravan park close to Donald Trump's Gulf resorts at Turnberry in South is considering changing its name to avoid associations with the U.S. President's the owners of the term pre-holiday park say the link is a negative elements that puts off potential visitors in the city a short time ago the 100 share index was down 48 points at 7186 and the weather forecast it will be wet and windy for Scotland and Northern Ireland to solve the name of the heaviest rain in the West of Scotland however it will be largely try for England and Wales with warm sunny spells highs of 20 Celsius in London 17 in Cardiff in Belfast and 15 in Edinburgh that's the B.B.C. Nice of 5 past one Many thanks Tom in this what makes us human. Nature and lead action on Marley I mean there's no. Way in which we assume it will be busy doing the spread to accept it tough to follow when you can. Leave. Things to flow of their choosing not to seep in the folds of the fallopian never going to look like you or anybody who says is what the entire human race really longs to see. A guest of former Prime Minister of Australia. human and our guest was born in Barrie in South Wales in the early sixty's a sickly child born to a psychiatric nurse and a nursing home worker you would have got pretty good odds on her not going on to become the 27th prime minister of Australia and yet between 20102013 she was the 1st woman to occupy that office alongside all the normal business of running a government she found herself at the helm of the ship steering the world's 12th largest economy through the financial crisis for many people she's a role model of a strong confident woman who made it to the very top of politics Julia Giladi is here to tell us what she thinks makes us human. B.B.C. Radio. The question what makes this man. Every. Blockbuster needs a theme song and so it is with Wonder Woman with it's the same song always circling back to the refrain that to be human is to love have Hollywood and Gal Gadot who brings Wonder Woman to life and the Aussie singer Sia got it right is being human about love and if so does that necessarily main being human is also about knowing how to hate. my answer is yes this time perhaps unusually popular culture is broad us part of an essential truth being human is a bad emotions but it's also about something more the essence of being human is the combination of wearability to feel and air capacity to think ultimately what makes us human is a sense of fairness which can i overcome prejudiced says to take one tireless example as human beings we can grow up in coach is the take just a fear the other to give a wide berth to paypal of different skin color to fear those who worship some other god to make decisions about who is inferior by based on factors that people are born with like they'd gender of sexuality or rice or disability much of history is spain about the struggle of human beings to face and defeat they tendency to fear or shan the other to convince themselves through the powers of the mind end in date the soul to embrace a shade humanity and these struggle continues on so many fronts today by chosen front to fired on is the continuing discrimination in our world by stone genda as the 1st woman to laid mine nation i desperately want other women to head fair excess to positions of leadership and for women to be fairly judged once they reach such positions this drive is lead made a king's college london where with an amazing tame i'm building the global institute for women slate a ship am mission is a simple one it is to deepen at understanding through research of what works to eradicate gender discrimination and to promote this evidence until it is equally likely that any leadership position is held by a woman or a men with a global level data showing women mike up just 23 percent of national parliamentarian's 26 percent of news media leaders 27 percent of judges and 15 percent of corporate board members there is much to do to achieve equality certainly the current rate of change windy night plus to see it in our lifetimes improvements in the number of women political leaders has stalled and there was only a one percentage point movement in the last decade in the number of sane if a male manages globally but for all these depressing statistics I feel we are at a pivotal moment although it originated in Hollywood the familiarity of the experiences described by the maid to movement has meant the wave has reverberated through journalism politics and beyond the stories collected a visceral illustrations of the career consequences suffered by women who were forced to maneuver around problematic mean the energy and enthusiasm generated by this movement has led to an awakening for many and spurred action to guarantee the rights of women so in this time of shine at the Global Institute for Women's Leadership We are taking a broad perspective as we analyze women's journeys to leadership and the Barry is that keep them back at every point in a woman's life journey we want to address the points where she's treated differently and less fairly than a Men This can include everything from the old boys' network dictating who gets jobs to the challenges of balancing work and family life to the unconscious biases that tell us women are too hysterical or too hard to be promoted as sense of fairness is at the core of our humanity it is what perils our progress is the spaces and it is what will drive us to create a better more equal world thank you very much Julia you can hear the essay again on the B.B.C. Radio 2 website and it'll be available to download as a podcast so just search for what basis human wherever you find your podcast says track today. Is by Sia featuring labyrinth to be human. that C.F. . Between labyrinth and due to get larger is it and because they're your Adelaide so is 00 It says right to take us back because the key connection we have here is that you were born in this country yes I was born I can tell you the date I was born in 1961 in Bury Wales and then my family my father mother and my sister migrated to Australia in 1966 so I was 4 when we got on the boat and I don't have any original memories of why it was but I've travelled there since and it was it for medical reasons that you have to go Oh not quite and I always get into trouble with the Welsh tourism board OK. It was a few things my parents or that there would be in the view a better economic opportunity in Australia and so you know I thought about migrating because of there and then when I was a baby I had Bronco pneumonia and a doctor did advise that a warmer climate would be better for me and so you know it all came together let's go somewhere you know warm somewhere new and that was Australia and I'm presuming your your parents were in their twenty's then or early thirty's there what sort of thing were they doing in Wales before they left they were both police officers my mother obviously having left work to have my sister and I as you did in those days you didn't combine the 2 I'm sure that wouldn't have happened so they actually made it when they were both working in the Play Station in Barrie so they gave that up to go to Australia so it's quite a big reboot of the entire family in a way it was a complete rape I mean we didn't have any relatives you know relatives there was no sort of forward in the story of many people's migration is that you know one family went and then another joint in another joint that's not our story it was just our family that went so in Australia we were only ever related to each other we never had. Cousins or any of those. Kinds of things and both mom and dad found new paths in life dead ultimately trying to be a psychiatric nurse and mom who was a great home cork took up being a cook in a residential aged care facility and they they stayed in Australia today for the rest of the lives of others still with us they are no longer with us we've lost both mom and dad but yes they're a very proud Australians for the rest of their life so they didn't you didn't ever feel you were being brought up to people who hankered for Wales No I mean why i always was very celebrated in our family home in there all the old stories of you know dead child who hadn't mum's child who wouldn't wait to talk about Welsh things and cite David's you know Welsh cakes and all the rest of it so we grew up with the Saints that we were from somewhere else and somewhere that should be remembered fondly but we also grew up with the sense that we were Australians also who don't have a voice like this and not know about. This in. Thinking that that's a very rich sounding Australian accent I don't know how Australian accents work whether you can tell someone from Adelaide and Sydney and Melbourne apart a little bit it's not as you know dramatic is the accent changes across the United Kingdom but there are some different words and different stresses in in syllables and things like that that you can tell a Sydney accent from an Adelaide accent I think do you remember your Australian schooling Oh sure absolutely tell us about it I just went to the local government schools. You know what an incredible privilege to end up being prime minister having gone to the state school at the end of the road I mean this was in the days that you know schools was owned you went to the one in your local community I went to meet. Infant School Mitcham primary school high school is. My parents had settled in other parts of Australia or indeed other parts of Adelaide those schools could have been very poor quality Luckily for me they picked a house in a community that meant those schools were excellent schools and it's often you know struck me that such a lottery and we need to in that lottery by making sure every school's great school member seeing I think you wrote about the the fact that you had a sense of the way that there was a gender stereotype basically just through the classes where you were having to do Home Economics which was sewing and then all the boys are put into metal work was actually even a little bit worse than that we got to divide it up into boys and girls and the 3 terms the school terms the the boys did Middle work for a term would work for a term and electronics for a term and we go in for cooking for a term and my personal favorite laundry so I've always joked that I am the only former G. 20 leader who if you know I had to get that wanted Vice about had to get that red Weinstein out of a silk shirt on me a woman I can help you with that I studied it and that says something about does it about Australia or just about the time we were in or that I think it says something about the time I mean my schooling was undertaken in the 1960 S. And 19 seventy's and you know the messages in my school were mixed in some ways I mean many takers and my parents were saying to my sister in our study hard I'm high go to university have a career but it was still let time where others would be saying to the daughters look your future will be as a wife and mother you won't work for long because the soon as you have kids you give up work and you'll be a homemaker So you know don't hit the books too hard because that's not going to matter for you fortunately my family was the one that was saying you know go for I think if you'd stayed in the U.K. You might have been getting the same kind of advice I think is that it's that sort of sixty's seventy's period isn't it where it was just assume. And it was before people were able to exercise their own will so much which you did yeah I think we were you know change generation I mean and obviously those degrees of China you know the seventy's the anti Vietnam War movement all of that you know that a bit earlier than my time but it sort of shape a sense that young people called forge their own destinies and have a sense about the power structures in the society so I grew up with that and did you sense you were making a choice very young about you know either I go towards that model of wife and mum or I go towards university and something exciting Did you sense that was a choice yes I did since it was a choice I didn't I didn't since the start of university is the departure point and I also had the sense that you know increasingly people would be able to combine that. Because actually the the wife and mom is the exciting bit for lots of people so yeah and look you know obviously people people make choices but I think we were in many ways the generation where people were changing from the model of full time homemaker and remember it wasn't that long ago before my schooling that women were required to resign from the civil service or from being employed at the bank because they got married I mean you know that was the that was the model if you got married you had children then you were homemaker generation was a change generation and women of brains sort of seeking to find their own path since but as the statistics are soldered in my show was do you know women nationally have every choice now combining motherhood and work choosing to focus on model focus on the other Actually there is still a lot of barriers that are preventing women from coming through and coming through to the top in politics in. Business in the lore in the list goes on and that's why I'm so dedicated to this Global Institute for Women's Leadership being organized areas down digit Did you at some point realize that you were a political person and the politics was the thing it was not a light bulb moment it was a sort of realized the needy is in my 2nd year at university there was some big government cutbacks to education and so I thought that was wrong and I got involved in a quite humble student protest campaign and then people said I was sort of you know good at all of that the speeches and the policy work and then I'll timidly went on to be president of the National Student Union and then people said oh you should think about politics as a career and so slowly it dawned on me that maybe that might be open to someone like me and I'm assuming that with politics you would have seen the kind of barriers you've referred to that it's quite forbidding that point to be getting into it I didn't in some ways I mean I. Drink my university career I mean I doubt that this was a society that was still very different for women but I had this happy naive expectation that you know feminism wives of China it was all going to change it was all going to change quite quickly and if you'd said to the 20 year old to me that you know when you're in your fifty's they will still be these barriers for women I would have said our No that's not right it's all going to normalize fairly so and a little be a call and so I set out on my legal career and then my political career thinking you know it's going to get equal only to find that they were still gained and Barry is in my way sort inside the Labor Party became deputy leader of the party in 2006 labor then won the 2007 election meaning that you became Australia's 1st female deputy prime minister So you were just one step below what did that feel like oh it was fantastic. I mean I I never imagined that I would end up in a position in politics that elevated I got to do portfolios I was passionate about our combined education and Workplace Relations so I got to make a difference to education at every level and also the terms and conditions for people in their workplaces fairness at work so I loved it but it was a very stressed time it was the start of the global financial crisis a lot of pressure around Yeah and of course that took its toll on Kevin Rudd who was the prime minister and I think seem to remember that you were the one who had to say look it's it's coming to an end yes there was a leadership contest and I put my name forward and you had to tell him before that if you thought it was there a conversation or not and not an easy one as you would imagine you say to him Look I think you should go and by the way I think I should be prime minister you know it being a building saints of crisis and obviously you know human beings are always going to have different perspectives Kevin he's always going to remember this differently to me but a building sense of crisis a problem with the government becoming increasingly nonfunctional and me forming the view that to resolve that Kevin would need to go and I would need to take over from leadership and I saw as a reporter that you the only time you cried is when you saw newspaper reports that he didn't trust you anymore Yes And you know the thing that I thought was holding the government together was that you know there was a bond between us and I was increasingly even when he was prime minister stepping up to doing more and more and more and then there was this newspaper report that suggested in his view that bonded ruptured not thought well if that's gone kind of everything's gone there are a number of interesting things happened when you were prime minister and one of them was that you gave this speech about misfortune e in Parliament Well funnily enough we when it happened we did it it was an item on the show so we. All the way around the world but you know this because I know you the phone was ringing off the hook as soon as you made it and I just wanna play a little bit if I may Julia So it's you are focused on the then leader of the Opposition Tony Abbott and just about 45 seconds we're going to hear now oh I was offended by the stakes by then the sergeant of the leader of the opposition kept calling across these type may as I see here is Prime Minister if the prime minister wants to be politically speaking make an honest woman of her self something that would never of being say to any men sitting in this kid was pinned when the leader of the opposition went outside in the front of Parliament and stored next to a sign that said the week I was a pain that when the labor of the opposition was like it was done and it was right me as I knew then speech I was offended by those things most urgent state every day from this labor of the opposition every die in everyone learned it hard on him and there's a deed and it was went worldwide in fact it was unplanned I read this but there was a particular political circumstance that person I had selected to be a speaker a man it had been revealed that he'd seen some very 6 this text messages obviously I didn't know about them at the time that I selected him to be a speaker so I prepared for question time thinking Question Time will be about them trying to skewer me on hypocrisy around 6 ism and I did have this sort of building saints of cool language that after everything aren't going to put up with now somehow this charge was going to be made against me but when I walked in for what I thought would be question time the leader of the opposition stood up and moved a motion and so we were into it we were into speeches and so I gave that speech off the night so I wrote as he gave the 1st speeches the mover of the motion is still echoing in. Species. Oh look it is still much referred to when in Australia or ending date around the world women will dive through traffic in almost death defying ways if they say me on the other side of the strait to come over and say good speech and talk about it and for a little while after I left politics I almost felt not resentful is probably putting it a little bit strongly but I did feel it's odd since that you know I was in the parliament for 15 years I was prime minister for 3 deputy prime minister for 3 and it all comes telescoped down to this one speech but now you know. Pace with it because I can say that it's meant a lot to so many women around the world and you mention your 3 years that ended after 3 years you as prime minister then Kevin Rudd then comes into office you lost the leadership ballot to him so because you wrote in your essay Julia about fairness and that's what the heart of it is I'm thinking how do you reconcile that with politics which is always unfair to everyone. When I was packing up my office so the day after I lost the prime ministership so you know surrounded by very distressed start and try and get things in cardboard boxes and get organized without have to not feeling that flash we'd had a few drinks the night before the former Labor prime minister Paul Keating rang me up and when I picked up the phone you know the office staff shouted through it spoke a ding on the phone so I picked up the phone and the 1st thing he said to me is we all get taken out in a box a lot of very Australian sort of expression we all get taken out in a box love and you know that he did as well as they did as well he lost an election and you know you kind of noise that on the way into politics that these Not many politicians who get to plan the time of the leaving but for the days your the air every day is a remarkable opportunity. To put your values into action and to do the things you believe in and saw even though they were ups and downs and they was that in 2 words if you know I could go in a time capsule back I'd do it all again in a heartbeat and you still believe in fairness I still believe in fairness to you to get out thank you so much for coming in what makes us human you can listen to it again on our podcast and it's great to see Thank you thank you. Thank you good old former prime minister of Australia. What about a former prime minister here but also born in Bury in South Wales so how interesting and very little on the podcast just a couple of comments before we hear our travel bobbies here thank you John Lott light brown Texas like Julia I moved from south Wales to Australia the dignity she's shown in the face of incredibly unfair opposition from the media her political opponents and those in her own party along with her continued advocacy for the rights of women and girls and education for all should be an inspiration and David Luiz emails and says it's great to hear on your show I come from the same part of Wales as Julia Kalb Ridge and I now live in camera I've also single parent that's been a learning experience when Julia stood up for women in our parliament as prime minister it was a moment of real clarity for me and I began to get it myself all power to your elbow Julia he says. That Bobby Jeremy thank you 83 the rest and be thankful it is still closed following the landslip at the local head turn off now just let you know the debris is in those special mitigation fences but they've got to do a full safety assessment before they can it reopen it so things look positive but it hasn't happened yet the 85 was also closed until 1115 this morning and the effect of the diversion wrote just let you know it is all signed for you 60 miles long though that diversion route at least 70 to a big or partially blocked there's an accident between a 72 and a 71 it can't email to Lincoln the A 15 is still closed there's an instant between a 57 Pelham street and monks road and the A Want to him now they want him southbound are still completely closed between junction 60 for Brad brake That's the A 689 and junction $58.00 for the A $68.00 birch tree so southbound still shut still doing the clear up northbound at the moment traffic is stationary or was stationary for the Air Ambulance and northbound you still got queues but it is open but it's been stop start a lot of people think that there may be a breakdown on the northbound carriageway as well but for the South bombs. As a diversion for the Via the solid circle and then to the A 58 a South Bay Bridge blocked by a bird strike between Station Road and Walton Street a 6 at Haines church and still blocked by recovery from this earlier accident just now to Haines and the fuselage needs to be cleared up finally 20 westbound partially blocked a green line at 5 Ways to the road this is because of an earlier action which is going to be recovered so you can squeeze past it with another almost even about an hour but we think you know if yourself the national journalist and you're well known for being critical of the Saudi Arabian regime you would understand the need to be very careful about your personal safety but even if you buy it bear in mind all the obvious dangers this is an incredible story we're about to tell you Jamal to show you used to newspapers in Saudi Arabia and was once a media advisor to the country's embassy in London was living in exile in the U.S. After disagreeing with the policies of the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Selman now last Tuesday was the ship went to the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul to get some documents to show he had to surrender his phone before entering the building and he told his fiance call for help if I don't remember which he's not been seen since Turkey has gone on the offensive with officials there saying basically show he was murdered inside the consulate and his body removed from the premises possibly after being dismembered there are reports of a 15 strong hit squad that flew in from Saudi Arabia that day Saudi Arabia says the allegations are baseless Mark Lowen is the B.B.C.'s Turkey correspondent and he's in is to tell us who Jamal Khashoggi is Mark he's really one of the biggest names in Arab journalism Jeremy he was close to the Saudi regime for a long time and then when Crown Prince Mohammed bin Sandman this 33 year old who has been feted by the West the red carpet laid out for him in London and Washington as a reformer when he came onto the scene about a year and a half ago Jamal Khashoggi. Disagreed with him on the issues on the clampdown on dissidents on their involvement in the war in neighboring Yemen he went into self-imposed exile in the US and he's been a weekly commentator to The Washington Post and he's been a very high profile critic the question is whether he became a victim of the clampdown on the on opponents from Saudi Arabia the Turks alleging that he was killed in a premeditated murder inside the Saudi consulate but today the brother of the Saudi crown prince who is currently the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. Came out and said reports of his detention or his murder inside the Saudi consulate here in Istanbul are completely false and baseless but he went into the consulate. It's not basis to say that is it so so what do they say happened to him inside their well the Saudis say he did reemerge but there has been no video footage that they have provided to support that claim and there has been a still from a C.C.T.V. Camera to show him entering now there are reports in the Turkish state media that a 15 strong Saudi hit squad came from Riyadh the same day that Mr how shocked she entered the Saudi Consulate on the Tuesday and that they were involved in his disappearance and that they removed C.C.T.V. Footage from inside the consulate when they returned to Saudi Arabia on private jets that night one of them flying via Dubai the other via Egypt now this is all leaks from the Turkish investigation we await the conclusion of the investigation but President has already said that the Saudis can hide behind a claim that Mr Hunt has simply left the consulate if they are making that claim they need to provide video footage to back it up so the moment Turkey and none too happy with this situation I gather I mean they're absolutely furious of course and you know if it were proven that he was the victim of a state sponsored assassination here on Turkish soil it would plunge Turkey Saudi relations into an. Unprecedented crisis it would be seen Jeremy as a as a flagrant attack on Turkish sovereignty it but it would also force Western governments London Washington Paris Berlin to rethink their relationship with Saudi Arabia and to reach rethink their view of the Saudi crown prince look they have already Western governments close their eyes to a lot of abuses in Saudi Arabia to allegations of war crimes in the war in Yemen but the assassination the state sanctioned murder of a Saudi journalist on foreign soil would take things to an all new to a whole new level Thank you very much Mark Lowen B.B.C. Turkey correspondent in Istanbul Robert Lacey a historian is a friend of Jamal Khashoggi and this is very very worrying for you I guess and everyone who knows him Robert. Yes it is I last saw him. A few months ago beginning of July we have breakfast together here in London is very fond of his scrambled eggs was a big guy late fifty's very Yvonne killa I mean this was 2 an incredibly respected journalist when Mark there says he was a critic of. The current regime that's true but he he was a moderate critic he wasn't a sharp. Unreasonable dissident he welcomed for example the fact that Saudi Arabia this young crown prince has enabled women to drive that's a wonderful step forward with other social reforms but at the same time as he did this might have been locked up the women protesters who have secured this breakthrough the suggestion is maybe he wanted to take credit for it. Who knows won't but there's a bad record already of dissidents critics getting silenced in strange ways and if the Turkish allegations are correct then this is actually a step into a a new dimension but was he aware of the danger that he. Now seems obvious he was in did he did he take steps. Jeremy You got it right I mean he and you know my friends are saying why did you do it Jamal what you know apparently he went to the consulate about a week before to get this talking when I saw him he was just looking forward to going back to Turkey seeing his fiance and. Getting married he went to the consulate to to OS for a document in Saudi Arabia proving that he'd been properly divorced in Saudi Arabia they're focused Mary in Turkey and according to one interview. He got he was very well received very kindly received so they said come back in 10 days time gave him an appointment and several of his friends said. To him you know you just don't go and go with the lawyer will go with the bodyguard was something he said Don't worry you know I know the Saudis you can you know you can trust them well we shall see if his faith was was proved right but as many people have said you know I've traveled and lived in Saudi Arabia for many years for all I used to defend it because for all its mistakes there was a core of reliability of on a city of moving to want something better but recently that's changed it's not the Saudi we remember and I'm terribly scared that Jamal's death will be the proof of that and it is difficult to see how he can still be alive if he's going into this building and not come out and that but also there pretending or saying that he he's not in there and they then show these weird pictures of people opening cupboards and stuff. It's like something out of 984 George Orwell his family back in Saudi Arabia for whom he is a strange the show Q family who've made a lot of money out of business with the government have gone on record saying he wasn't going to get engaged he didn't have a fiance Well I can tell you he was and he did You can't trust some of the things that are being said at the moment and. It's you know I some but will that is because I've been talking to a lot of Saudi Saudi friends and Brits who like saudi arabian of what they're in the armed forces and so on and they say this is a totally new dimension thank you very much indeed Robert Lacey historian and friend of Jamal Khashoggi It took about what happened inside the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul he went in to get some papers he still hasn't come out 7 days later. On a separate note this man is 70 today Jackson Browne is 70 How did that happen. Moved. a hot Jackson Brown genius seventy's today. Too about Shoki which we think is the pronunciation and he's disappeared inside the Saudi Arabian embassy or consulate in Istanbul goodness only knows whether this team of 50 Saudi Arabian people came over expressed need to kill him but this is his voice you're going to hear she's speaking from the United States on B.B.C. Hot to a program and he was talking about the the the worries he had about his country I count retired heat in America hopefully. Just. Not important or known and both of the issues and go on with my life but I wouldn't for make sure that a 4 legged on children. What do you mean the most is one model we need to reform but one more rule of I said earlier is about if it always go wrong in any in any country with that we are talking about Saudi Arabia or your money or Iraq to did that get him killed he's talking about one man rule in Saudi Arabia and how it worries him this new guy the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salmond who we were told was a great modernizer of course they said that about President Assad as well in the maybe it's not like that a tool. To go Phil Jones you think we they could do anything basically Dave Phil Yeah I mean they're going to be like them over there one by one or 21 by the boat OK yeah. Let's. So. Can you defend that posture you say look the weapons purchases employ an awful lot of people in Britain let's not get involved in whatever happened inside this consulate I would probably cut ties with this aid when I'm back with nature completely right now Years of us. But they did I suppose the those who defend them look at the economic power and also they're a sort of an ally in the Middle East in a strange way and they had to be honest I don't care if I do things like that well you know. Is there any possible innocent explanation of why this guy walked into the consulate and didn't. Know I get away with it yeah. I'm back with my you well I thank you very much Phil Cameron says What links to the Saudi government have to go to before we actually cut ties with them so the same point my claim Whitley Bay takes the Saudi crown prince has an estate in County Moving the Sara Cox at 19 o'clock the acclaimed jazz musician James Morrison plays modern brass music Jamie Cullum with jazz 8 o'clock and of course after the news it's T.V. In the afternoon with Harry Connick Jr the journalist Scarlett Curtis and the actor a journalist and Oscar Wilde from without the e from Fintry in Scotland picking the nonstop oldies that we are staying chief for the telly B.B.C. Radio 2 online on digital radio and an 88 to 91 F.M. . Sydney's 2 o'clock this is Anthony's.