Making pink the gold stone of marking. Some make hefty donations to Breast Cancer charities, but many businesses are accused of pink washing, companies that use Breast Cancer awareness to improvele bottom line and lack of transparency in their fundraising. Our executive producer, we asked that question to our viewers. Has pink become so widespread that it has lost its meaning . You know, our community is really divided on that and what it means so as always, its a live conversation, so feel free to joining us. By logging on. Joining us onset with a critical eye all of this is gayle, the founder of the Breast Cancer consortium, and author of pink ribbon blues. And shes a prominent arthur of Breast Cancer research, one the top Womens Health specialists in the u. S. And lisa, a blogger, and shes fighting stage four Breast Cancer. Thank you for all of u. And weve really been looking forward to this conversation tonight. Dr. Love, where was Breast Cancer awareness before the pink ribbon campaign, and where is it now . Well, before, way back 30 years ago, or a little more, nobody talked about Breast Cancer and nobody was willing to come out that they had Breast Cancer, and it was a great secret. In fact, in the very early days, you had to have a doctors permission to have somebody from reach to recovery come visit you in the hospital because it might be too disturbing. So it has really come a long way in terms of awareness, but maybe too far. When the nfl is wearing pink, we have certainly achieved awareness, and the goal has to be beyond awareness, but finding the cause and beating it altogether. You know, gayle, this puts us in a precarious position. They have raised the level of awareness now, and now groups are being critical and many are accused of pink washing and kind of define pink washing for us, and why some feel its a righteous criticism. Well, you mentioned the nfl, and dr. Love mentions the nfl. And when we see pink on sneakers out on fields, and seas of pink products in grower stores, we see so much of the pink that it actually goes into the background. So what we have now instead of awareness is visibility for the sake of visibility. When you see a pink building, what does that really make you conscience of or mindful of with regard to Breast Cancer. So we have kind of lost sight of the consciousness raising of awareness and moved into a bland essential. The Breast Cancer brand and the pink ribbon logo. A lot of oversaturation. And the problem with it, it tends to be celebratory. Isnt this wonderful . You have battle. And youre a survivor and all of those kinds of things, but in actual factor, its much more than that. The message is Early Detection work, but not that often, probably 30 of the time, that not everybody who goes through Breast Cancer is cured. And its a much more complicated issue than just a pink, you know, celebration or a pink building. And i think we lose that with the pink. Speaking of that, lisa, youre fighting Breast Cancer, and how do you see the influence of the pink campaign. I think that the influence has become diluted over time. And i think that to me awareness should be about education, and i think that the pink ribbons and the oversaturation is becoming more commercial and its taking away from what the message should be about, which is education and teaching accurate facts about Breast Cancer, and Early Detection and treatment. And still have it mess taft size which is incasual, and cellular biology is more powerful than that. You did everything right back in 2006. I did everything i could at the time. And i achieved what is called a ned status, no evidence of disease, but it doesnt mean that the cells are gone, and they can come back. And theres this focus. [ audio difficulties ] but america, as lisa belkin wrote about back then, so in addition to commercialization and marketing, it begs the question, how much can you put on a tshirt or an yogurt lid to raise awareness of the realities, and these are the kind of realities that dont make it out in the commercial setting, and thats a huge part of the issue. And another part of the issue is theres a lot of Collateral Damage from the treatment. We act like you go through your treatments and youre fine, and we dont talk about the chemotherapy brain and the numb toes and the pain and the consequences from the surgery, and the swelling of the arm. So its not all even if youre cured, which some people are, you still pay a huge price. And were trying right now to collect the Collateral Damage questions to document this. At question the cure. Org. So people can go there, and put their problems and what they want us to do, and as part of our health of women study, were going to track them and document them and were trying to work with all of the different Breast Cancer groups to focus on this, and move beyond the celebratory, pink, and if they do things right, what is the real disease. Particularly on the common foundation, because a lot of times when youre fighting a disease like Breast Cancer, all youve got is hope. I mean, theres no cause for this disease, no cure for it. And to bring in all of these negatives and all of the Collateral Damage as part of an Awareness Campaign, is that an expectation . Well, komen is part of the project. And theyre collaborating with us for awareness, but i think its expectations, its better than the false expectations, that you have a mammogram, you have surgery, and youll maybe get better breasts than you had before and youll go on with your life with no problem. Thats not the majority of women, even the ones that are cured. Lisa, give us your take that. Were talking about education and awareness and reality. And we must present what the reality is, the good and the bad. And what we should be expecting of these organizations and Research Institutions is to be presenting the spectrum that happens with this disease. Thats the reality. Now, you dont know if youre going to be in the 70 who are able to go on without a later occurrence or metastis, and 30 will, and we dont want to take away your hope. But if were talking about awareness, were addressing the full spectrum. If 30 later are have a me meta, why arent they being presented by the media. It should be an equal ratio. We hear the happy stories and the arthe rara and they dont wo hear from people like me who are taking chemotherapy for the rest of our lives, and depending on that, and only have 23 of Research Funds dedicated to met static research. Absolutely, we do want to hear from you. And we want to hear from dr. Love and gayle and were going to continue this conversation right after the break. When we get back, i want to hear about the pink campaign, and how to tell. [ audio difficulties ] keep tweeting in your comments. Well be right back. Welcome back, were talking about the saturation of all things pink during Breast Cancer awareness month. And whether its improving Womens Health. And theres no shortage of companies attaching themselves to this. Were seeing everything from shoes to pens, on my screen right now, i have boots, and Butternut Squash ravioli, and from our streamer, andrea, she notes there are pink drill bits. A leading Company Released these drill bits. So gayle, in terms of all of this marketing and branding, its good for companies, but what else should we be looking at with this issue . Well, its very good for companies, and this is one of the key issues of the commercialization of the disease. Companies are jumping on the pink ribbon bandwagon and making a lot of money, and even if they do donate, many of them do not, some do, and i would almost guarantee that the profit margin is significantly higher than the donation. [ audio difficulties ] theyre bitting more. If you buy this product, thats kind of the opposite of whats happening. Lisa, nobody expects businesses to do things for free, and how do you respond. I think that one of the things we expect is that companies schmoe where their money is going. For example, i was in a store today. And they were running a Breast Cancer promotion, and they said, were going to donate a percentage of sales today to Breast Cancer research. And i said, okay, thats great. What is the organization youre donating to, and how will that money be used in and they just looked at me blankly, they didnt know the information. How much money was going to be given, what percentage. This was just a script that they were reciting because they felt that if they aligned themselves with pink and Breast Cancer awareness month, that was automatically kind of something sacred and nobody was going to challenge them. How do you tell the difference between marketing and companies that are doing this to simply capitalize on this, that its such an invisible campaign . First of all, and. Ask the store, reading the fine print of products is very important. So if it just says something vague like goes to the fight against Breast Cancer or goes to research, its so ambiguous that you cant actually follow the money. And its very port to follow the money. And then its important to follow the messages as well. What are the messages being sent . What organizations are they going to . Do those organizations have Financial Reports that you can find . Can you follow up and see if theyre doing anything thats helpful. This has been on the communitys mind a lot. Where is the money going dr. Love, where is the money going and how do we be informed consumers in. To be fair, some of the money was actually well spent. So red line, the first cause of marketing, because initially, companies didnt want to align themselves with Breast Cancer, they were afraid today scare women away, and revlon funded a lot of the ucla research, a very important drug in Breast Cancer treatment. So some of the money really does go to good things and good research, but you have to look and find out and some of the companies will donate without you buying a product. Now, when youre a Breast Cancer Research Organization as we are, we do need that money. It actually does go to research, and it is a good source of funding, so its a balance. And i think what gayle was saying, you have to think before you pink, and look into it. And if it does look like theyre doing something valuable and theyre giving a significant amount of money, maybe it is wort it, and if not, maybe not. I would also like to suggest that instead of buying products that are pink or have a ribbon on them, if people want their money to go to good organizations, take the money directly and research the organizations and give it directly to the organizations themselves. Just give the money there and forget the pink shoes and the pink drill bits and do your research and give that money directly to the organizations, especially the ones that give Research Grants and do good work. The saturation of the pink has kind of lent itself to blacktivism. And i didnt invent that word. Put a ribbon on this event and give hundred and wear pompoms, and do whatever youre going to do for the cause, it creates a scenario before you dont have to think before you pink. So now were in a situation where we have to reverse that. Is it possible to dial this back to a point where it really is helpful . Dr. Love, can it be dialed back, should it be dialed back. Well, it can, if enough people and questions and really look at whats happening behind the pink, then the companies will sort of cleanup for act. The fact that they get away with it makes them do it more. But there are other things that women with do more. If you cant donate, you can participate in research. We have women studies where you fill out questions online overtime. And we need healthy women with Breast Cancer, and what causes it, and what is the best mechanism for prolonging the quality of life with Breast Cancer as long as we can. So there are alternatives to buying pink products and things, and i actually try not to wear pink as much as possible because its overwhelming. But i think that if we call the companies on it, we can maybe change the culture of the companies. We need to call the charities on it too. There are some 1300 nonprofits in the u. S. That are somehow associated with Breast Cancer, and its a lot. And there are new ones every day probably. So when you see all of that stuff, and all of that organizing around Breast Cancer, you have to really vet the organizations, because some are doing fabulous, fabulous work, but you cant tell unless you look, but that is the message, you have to look. Good point. Speaking of messages, what important messages are getting lost in all of this pink marketing . And has the success of the campaign been a at the expense f other issues . Welcome back, were talking about whats getting lost in all of the pink of Breast Cancer awareness month. And dr. Love, a sea of pink created a sensation between the success of the Awareness Campaign and the success of fighting and treating Breast Cancer . Well, i think it has, and i think that everything, we overdiagnoses and over treat Breast Cancer, but one of the down sides of mammography that doesnt get talked about a lot, it finds a lot of things that werent going to be a problem in the first place, some youre down playing and some overtreat. And we make it sound like everything is fine and its all a success, and i think that really interferes with people understanding the disease and the treatments and the treatments have significant side effects and Collateral Damage. Its one thing to talk about breasts off and getting new ones, but people dont think about the fact that theyre completely numb, and you have no sensation, and you may have significant problems from the surgery. So we need to be realistic about what the disease is, and how prominent it is, and what the treatments do, and maybe focus more on fighting the cause. My big model is cancer of the cervix, we took out normal body parts, and then we found out that it was a virus, and now we have a vaccine. In 30 years, we went from cutting out normal body parts, and in Breast Cancer, were still cutting out normal body parts. The campaign and if its more helpful or harmful. Gayle, what do you think. Well, Breast Cancer right now as it stands is a proxy for Womens Health. And if you support Breast Cancer, youre supporting Womens Health. But what were not tending to see is the fact that Heart Disease kills more women than campus, and lung disease kills more women, and Ovarian Cancer is a significant disease for women if terms of death rates, and we tend not to see those kinds of things, and when you look beyond Womens Health, with he dont see Mens Health Issues in this environment either. Lisa mentioned that we dont see men with Breast Cancer. 1 of cases involve men, but having men into this pink world. So i would agree that there is kind of a Cottage Industry that has developed around Breast Cancer itself. Good evening everyone. Welcome to Al Jazeera America im John Siegenthaler in new york. Debt deal outline. The plans proposed by both houses of congress to the president to end the standoff. Embracing for impact. 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