Finger on a random spot. Where you stopped somewhere in the long march of history one group of human beings probably did something terrible to another group. But we responded in different ways at different times in history from ignoring or denying what happened to apologizing with no compensation to acknowledgment, and trying to make a victimized people whole. Japanese americans sent to interment camps during world war 2 were compensated. American indians get various kinds of benefits and programs, but they dont get Manhattan Island back. Now more than a dozen caribbean nations are demanding pay back for the victimization of the distance past. The enslavement of over 50 Million People over 400 years, that is a horrendous issue that has gone unredressed. This is where it all started. That dark history hurts the island nations of the caribbean every day. More than 4 million men, women and children were imported as property to the caribbean islands forced to live out their lives working for free for plantation owners. Hundreds of thousands died on route. For centuries plantations were the backbone of the caribbean economy. When slavery was abolished in the early 19th century many early plantations crumbled and the owners left. What are the ten major lega legacies that european colonization left behind . Issues of ill health. Issues of poor infrastructure. Issues of backward agriculture economies. I could go on. These are the issues that have been left behind by the colonial process. Today sir hilly beckles said justice for the caribbean islands can only be served by reparations. He recently appealed to like minds at a rally in chicago. For beckles the reparation issue is personal. His great, great grandparents were slaves. The United Kingdom is one of the countries theyre seeking compensation from along with france and the netherlands. Effectively what were saying to the governments of europe. Okay, after 300 years you have left these islands in pretty bad state. You left them with terrible developmental challenges, and we believe you have a responsibility to return to the caribbean and participate in the rebuilding of the caribbean. Reporter there is a huge wealth gap between the nations and their european counterparts. Lets look at gross domestic product. In 2014, u. K. France and netherlands gdp is on average 40,000 per persons. But the average is 15,000 per person. You have least these countries in shambles in terms of development, healthcare, education. On one hand we take responsibility for our future. But on the other hand they have some responsibility to partner with us to re build these societies. Reporter outlined in a 10point plan and include a formery, assistance for people who want to relocate back to africa, and a partial cancellation of debt. In response the u. K. Foreign office said slavery was and is abhor rent. The United Kingdom unreserved ly condemns slavery an, but britain is not in favor of are pa rations. Instead we should look forward and the shared challenges in the 21st century. I know this is a perception that this has to do extraction of revenues. Thats not so simple. Thats a part of it, but there are psychological issues, moral issues, and deeply economic issues. Reporter caller reparation they are calling for reparations by june 30th. Is something that happened a long time ago something that cant be helped, or are those past actions, savory, economic exploitation, set events into motion that can directly be linked to the inequalities of today . One way of coming to terms with history, reparations. This time on inside story. Joining us from philadelphia, professor adolf reed, who teaches political science. From chapel hill, north carolina, author of reparations ,pro and con, and professor of law at university of north carolina. And from the university of tennessee, professor darren smith. By bringing an actual legal case does does it take us to New Territory to where this is even adjudicate adjudicatible. Thank you for giving this the attention that it deserves. There are some other lawsuit that have been filed going back to the early 20th century, but none are of the scope that this lawsuit is going to be. This is going to attempt to bring together legacies of violence and brutalization that stretch over half a millennium. Its going to be unparalleled in its scope. I do have to say i think the case for reparations are morally justice but legally very problematic. Is there really a venue in which to take a pleading like this where people can mull it over and decide whether its got merit or not. Or is even that an open question . You know, courts are not well suited to adjudicating claims that stretch over hundreds of years and millions of people. Usually lawsuits are set up for one claim against another. We have seen even the problems with the bp oil spill. The larger the claims, the more cumbersome and difficult it is for courts to adjudicate them. I do think that the claim in front of the International Court of justice has the potential to raise consciousness, and there are lots of reasons people file lawsuits. Not all of them are to get money. I think this will help to bring attention to this crime that has consumed the western culture force hundreds of years. There is no question that britain, france and netherlands did the things that the pleading says they did . There is absolutely no question about it. History speaks for itself. As the professor just outlined, the most irreprehensible thing of slavery, i think history books would frame it that way. I think the circumstances are that of africanamerican issues here in this country, and what africanamericans have also faced. I think because our federal government has been very slow to act on the concerns and situations that plague the black community in the urban Centers Across the country, this is certainly a great example of the legacies of what has happened in the caribbean islands. You compare that to what has happened to africanamericans. You see similarities across the board. I think with the plea for redress i think along with that africanamericans need to do similarly. Well definitely talk later in the program about whether the fate of the suit will reopen the conversation here in the united states. Professor reed, do the countries of the caribbean have a case against the country of western europe . I should start by saying this is hardly my area of expertise, but reading it from the standpoint of a layperson in this regard who understands the history, yeah, i think there is a plausible claim. The harms were done. I think its alsoi think this may piggyback on something that the professor said. More directly the claims are linked to actions of former colonial overlords, basically. Its my understanding as well that some africa nations also made similar cases about the extent to which they are maybe Legal Proceedings under consideration. From that standpoint, i hasten to say that im not so sanguine to compare the africanamerican case to the caribbean case. Its all part of the human condition. Powerful people exploit less powerful people, and its always been so. I dont know if its part of human condition but its part of the social form that weve lived under, and its taken shape in ways that it has produced us in the world system. Slavery, while particularly egregious, but there was also, as you noted, jen side genocides along the way. I think this is a starting point. Again, at least with respect to the u. S. This is not so much of a moral question but a political question. For me the first step is always, yes, its not a matter who deserves what. A lot of people deserve a lot. But the question fromthe first question for me is how can we imagine in this country putting together a Political Alliance that could prevail on an issue like this. Clearly its not going to go anywhere in the courts. Look a at the state of the cours at a minimum. Maybe its a failing of imagination on my party, but i just havent been able to get a sense of where that Political Alliance could possibly come from. Thats where well dig in when we come back. Well take a short break, and when we come back talk about the how of reparations. The root word is repair. Can you repair what history has damaged. This is inside story. On techknow. So, this is the smart home. Saving the environment the start point for energy efficiency, is to work with the sun. Saving you money we harvest a lot of free energy and so were completely off grid here how many of the appliances were almost a little too smart for us . Techknow every saturday, go where science, meets humanity. This is some of the best driving ive ever done, even though i cant see. Techknow were here in the vortex. Only on Al Jazeera America america tonight investigates a controverseal addition treatment. It could be a life saver. The reset button has been hit what is this teach us about the brain . Can ibogaine cure heroin addiction . Only on Al Jazeera America youre watching notic inside story. Im ray suarez. Were talking about one group of people being compensated for wrongs. When the original offenders and original victims are both long dead, start us off, what would a structure of repair look like . There are going to be components involved in the educational side of the house in all points in between. I think the damage that has been done to africanamericans for 400 years in this country, thats 85 of the nations history. It has been absolutely detrimental, and it has forced africanamericans as a group to not have the same opportunities of wealth, wealth generating careers or circumstances. So i think the first thing we need to do, one of the first things we should do is completely overall our Education System. Education is premium in the united states. Without solid education , it needs to be seriously attended to. The way we Fund Education in this country is wholly inadequate. To redress what has happened to africanamericans fo , i would start there. And the subjugation of black folks for 400 years. We have to make sure that those two components are well attended to, and the federal government has to take up the burden simply because the federal government benefited from slavery off the backs of blacks, the wealth generated by the Industrial Revolution forward was propelled by africanamericans. There is a debt owed. It doesnt have to be in the form of cash payments, but mundy verted into education or schools where large tracks of africanamericans reside might be one solution. You just heard professor smith talk about the un deniable burden of history, and then professor reed pointing out we cant have that conversation in the country either in the courts or at large. It all breaks down and starts to unravel. Is there a howe how here . Its all about the redistribution of wealth. The mobile alabama polled on the reparations a decade ago and found twothirds of africanamericans in alabama were in favor of 5 of white people in alabama were in favor. Its a very decisive issue. I think the moral claim continues to be made. The reason why we continue to hear about reparation there is are decades long, centuries long of asi racial subordination through law. The question is how can we take that legacy and move forward in a positive way. A lot of things that people have thought in terms of reparation is a renewed great society. This was Lyndon Johnsons program to raise up everybody, but particularly africanamerican. But the stop along the way has been to age knowledge. When american president s have visited places like sierra lyon but stopping well short of actually putting anything material in play but giving some acknowledgment. Does it help . Does it accomplish anything . No, i dont think so so. I think it feeds into the tendency to ground into political discussions in psycho discussions in sigh babbling discourse that might be more worthy of oprah. What is to acknowledge . Everybody knows that it happened. No,s the kind of thing that i find irksome. Does the fact that there are no inslavers and no inslaved people left from the american and west indian context make this by necessary a more difficult conversation . Well, i can ask a more fundamental question, how can we imagine getting there to whatever the there is . I mean, i appreciate a number of problematic problems mentioned. There is room for discussion in what those could mean in practical terms. What does redesigning the Education System mean . What about the questions of actual links between education, former education, and upper mobility in an economy that is pretty much anchored to liberal simple that moves the other way around. The same with healthcare. What redistributable approach to access to healthcare book like . In general terms i can agree with all those, but it always comes back to the question, well, how do we get there . Again, i can demand that the federal government do whatever the federal government does. None of this is like barbershop talk. The notion in a society which designated victims its almost impossible to imagine how the movement could be built, especially in a con detective of steadily declining expectations for everybody in this societies since that is the nature of the organization is. Well take a short break. When we come back well talk about culpability, and the willingness for many to say basically im sorry that it happened, but it doesnt have anything to do with me personally. This is inside story. Every saturday join us for exclusive, revealing, and surprising talks with the most interesting people of our time. Rosie perez i had to fight back, or else my ass was gonna get kicked. A tough childhood. There was a crying, there was a lot of laughter. Finding her voice i was not a ham, i was ham cheese. And turning it around. You dont have to let your circumstance dictate who you are as a person talk to al jazeera only on Al Jazeera America whether or not the colonial and slave trading powers of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries ever pay a penny in compensation to the nations they left in the wake , remains to be seen. Is it worth talking about rep reparations even if you dont think theyre going to be paid. Youve laid out problems in various parts of the world where people will say i didnt do these things, how can you make me pay . That is the single most difficult issue of who should pay. I do think there is good reasons for thinking about reparations as a social Welfare Program, and in solve Welfare Programs the entire Community Pays because the idea is there is some positive that comes from a robust social Welfare Program. If you ask white americans they think race is a burden to other americans, and if you ask minorities, they still its a pretty big factor in their lives. From the mid 19 30s to the 50s, what was known as the civil rights movement, the struggle against jim crow and racial discrimination, and the other for social democracit democracicy. The only way for redress would be for the whole entire society to move in a direction along the lines of social thats key. I think it takes us away from from the general focus on enhanced social policy that we need. Let me turn to professor smith, because he has spoken about these specific inequa inequalities. What are the chances of getting an american conversation an International Conversation about just this type of compensation for the past . As long as whites are in charge, when these conversations have been put forward whether it be in the legislative rea realmr barbershop talk, there is always this quick push to silence those who say those kinds of things in terms of the overall conversation itself. It begs to reason who is in charge of these conversations, and to what benefit do they stand to gain or lose as a result of this . It doesnt mean that the conversation should stop. And it doesnt mean that they shouldnt push for redress. Would that happen as long as whites are in charge . I dont think so. It never has. There is a lot more at stake than the moral implications than as your guest injures indicated. There is a financial indication as well. There is no question that africanamericans would benefit from a wholesale social Welfare Program help them out of the situation that consists which is part of their slave past. We cant ignore that, and we need more robust conversations around it. And take this to the hill and get legislation pushed through that makes sense. I also believe in the whole idea of uplifting everyone, but recognize that black poverty and white poverty are two entirely different processes, entirely differentsomeone who is white and impoverished, their experiences are very different than someone who was black and impoverished. You have to look at these things. Not at apples and apples, but as apple and oranges. I hope todays conversation is a down payment on that wider talk that professor smith is looking for. Thank you all for being with me today. That brings us to the end of this edition of inside story. Thanks for being with us. The program may be over but the conversation continues. We want to hear what you think about the issues raised on this or any days show. Log on to our Facebook Page or send us your thoughts on twitter. Or you can always reach me directly ray suarez news. See you for the next inside story. In washington, im ray suarez. Ive said yes to a few opportunities that have come my way that could be taken as being rather risky
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