ah alright, let's get around them. now. the top stories on the rescue workers in indonesia, continuing a search for survivors after a powerful earthquake struck west job a province on monday. at least 268 people died, many of them children. becky, on behalf of myself and the government of indonesia, i would like to express my deepest condolences on the earthquake that hit the challenger, city and west java province. my instruction is to prioritize rescuing and evacuating victims still trapped under the rubble and turkish president says he will launch a ground offensive against kurdish forces in northern syria to kia has traded strikes with syrian arm groups off to an explosion in istanbul last week. meanwhile, the country is morning civilians killed by rocket fire near the syrian border on monday. brazil's outgoing president, jaya both sonata is challenging his election defeat to rival lewis, ignacio luna da silva or sonata once the electro call to invalidate the votes cast . on some electronic voting machines. he's pointing to a software bug saying and compromise. the po cost has postponed its plans of fine drivers who continue using serbian issued license plates. new rules on now will now come into effect on thursday. the government says the us ambassador to cos, requested the delay ferry, an escalation of tensions between kosovars and the sub minority. both sides held talks with the you on monday, but they failed to reach a deal. the u. s. supreme court has cleared the way for donald trump's tax returns to be released to a house committee, led by democrats. trump has tried to keep his tax returns private years, the 1st president in for decades, not to release them publicly. russian president vladimir putin as talented his country's arctic presence during the launch of 2 nuclear power, icebreakers ships were inaugurated in the waters of the baltic shipyard in st. peter's. on tuesday. does that a headlines were back in half an hour right now. it's inside story. ah, hundreds of thousands of congolese calls in a conflict between foreign back fighters and the soldiers trying to stop them. lawanda is accused of supporting the m $23.00 group and allegation it denies. and some powerful nations seemed powerless to prevent the bloodshed. this is inside story. ah, ah, ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm adrian finnegan. i renewed offensive by m. 23 fighters in the eastern democratic republic of congo has forced hundreds of thousands of people from their homes. there are reports of extra judicial killings, torture and rape. the rebel group has ignored international appeals for a cease fire that is now marching on goma, the regional capital. the conflict is pitted the governments of the democratic republic of congo and neighboring lawanda against each other. you and investigators have found evidence that anyone does military is supporting m 23 fighters from gaba his malcolm web. the more than 200000 people have run away from the n 23 group, as it's advanced in eastern democratic republic of congo. so the local just started removing their big guns that were in front of our home and took them away. this is why we have to lean and 23 is widely understood to be backed by rwanda. gun has also been accused of providing support. those governments deny it. un peacekeepers filmed 500 fighters entering congo from rwanda. earlier this year, london soldiers have been photographed in areas held by him 23. their helmets have distinct plastic mounds for equipment. the same as those warned by some m. 23 fighters seen in this video released by the armed group kong as forces of last ground to m 23 in recent weeks. east african leaders are holding talks. there's been fighting to the north of here, further down the road in the area that along the border with rwanda, which is just a few kilometers over there. a lot of the population from the towns where there's been fighting has fled this way into the city of go, my west tens of thousands of people staying and camps, people waiting to see if the heightened plastic activity is actually going to change anything on the ground. people have demonstrated in cities across congo in recent months, against the u. canden president, you are in the 71 than president polk, gummy, they blame for decades of military aggression in congo campaign is say the international community needs to help whom of a couple of young i didn't, we don't have confidence in the east africa community to bring peace, we can never expect government to back down and withdraw. economic and military sanctions need to be imposed on wonder because it depends on funding from other countries. earlier this year, the u. k. pedro under about a $160000000.00 to receive deported asylum seekers. after decades of animosity, france and rwanda restored relations last year and french president emanuel micron promised half a 1000000000 years of 8 tens of thousands of people of enforced into insanity camps . the u. s is expressed concern over one, those involvement. the u. n. u k in france, have condemned them 23, but they haven't said who's backing the group for you? can we know that the have this deal we've, we've ronda there is also france, we've always been involved we've, we've run de mozambique can be a barrier to take time for the right decision which should be to make sure that's all this is stop rwandan soldiers fighting insurgents in northern mozambique, where french oil john, tow town, has a $20000000000.00 gas project. they were the same helmets as some m. 23 fighters. 9 years ago, congress fought is defeated them $23.00 and it's fighters fled to wonder and uganda . that time, congo had international military support, and the u. s. and other countries blocked military a to wonder this time people here are waiting to see if politicians from this region and beyond who do what needed to bring peace and let them go home. malcolm web for inside story. well, as malcolm mentioned in that report, the u. s. embassy along with the and voice belgium, france of the you. k have issued a statement calling on the m 23 to immediately withdraw and end the acts that violate an international law and to see so still it is. but that statement stopped short of accusing any countries of backing the rebels. but the humanitarian crisis of the democratic republic of congo is worsening and as spilling across its borders . the you and estimates that at least 280000 people have been forced from their home since march. at least 7000 of crossed into uganda. since october children are disproportionately affected. more than a 100 have been separated from their families in areas where fighting is taking place. ah, let's bring in our guests for today's discussion from kinshasa, which went by fred bama. he is the executive director of abu tele, a congolese institute for research on politics, governance and violence from local, marshy. we're joined by angel, the congress, as and gunner the you and refugee agency representative in the democratic republic of congo and from london. which on by michaela wrong, a journalist and the author of do not disturb the story of a political murder at an african regime. gone bad. fred, we'll start with you. who is supporting the m 23 in that he r c. and why? thank you very much inviting me and so on this case from what you know, i'm from especially the, when the last group of experts report, dentistry has been supported by rwanda mentally since the beginning of the separation and lead back to end of 2021. we know also from many people in the region that at some point we're not uganda. and so it's a free now, is it important to mention that the support of rwanda on interest to this new em to if we remind people how to enter the feedback in 2013 was also backed by rhonda. and then we saw many countries mobilize with special rhonda, which we don't really see, but frankly, i'm sorry to interrupt you. bought evidence. is there to suggest that when the is backing in 23 at the moment when rwanda is saying that it isn't so many evidence is from food ted, from drawing on by the un mission india middle school. there is also a round in military where around it tends to be one of the best you can. we could go back in new to who testified to see many, many from from rhonda to both. i think the reality of support rhonda to go to entity is known by many people, almost every people in in the region. and i know for sure that many embassies with an embassies and other i forgot to say, i didn't know clearly that around in some extent uganda, mtv. and it's not out of yours that you're not calling out. one angel will come to you just a moment to talk about the humanitarian situation, but 1st, mckellar in london. why weren't rwanda admit that they're supporting the rebels in, in the d r c. and what's of interest or wonder in the democratic republic of congo . why? but it want to destabilize the region. well, this is a game that ruined to have been playing since 1996 when it supported a rebel group the cost into into it was then as i, as now democratic republic of congo, try to break up the camps of refugees, of who to extreme refugees. members of that former army that were camping in the air, and that, of course, that rebel group ended up toppling with the president of the day. so ever since then, really you've seen this history of, of rwanda in the southern parts in q and uganda for the to the north booth. regarding it really as i prerogative to go into democratic republic of congo, which is the country by the security forces. have a real problem, an existing control and using as playgrounds are doing as they wish that controlling the local politics and also either bring up the mineral resources or labeling large scale smuggling of all the precious metals that we know are in ins. i so it's got a lot of interest in that it likes to be seen as a player. and i think what we're seeing behind this new push that really just materialize fairly recently, is a feeling a in rural, on reminders part that it was being beaten in this game by it's rival, the vanda, uganda back last year, signed a deal with contrast to build roads infrastructure in, in eastern d, r c to help d r c to export it's minerals. and so it would allow uganda to crack down on the adf, which is a local rebel group. so i think that there was a feeling in rwanda. oh goodness, uganda and dfcs getting very polly, all of a sudden that's our area that's, that's our playground. that's all backyard. and we don't have to be today by all right, well you can, this is, this is, you know, we are the key player in the great lakes. and if anyone's going to end up in east and come down off that i think that's probably the medication not very attractive. it because we were hearing of a few moments ago, there has been some criticism of rwanda from the you in the u. k. front of the us, perhaps it's been a little more explicit and it's criticism, but nobody's doing anything. why? when you reported it to earlier, there are also reasons why the same group of western donors who support rwanda. they think of it considerable amounts of age every year and they and managed to pull back only 810 years ago and, and rwanda accordingly on uganda. ford and heard that signal and i'm scaled back by support for them. 23, when it was terrorizing easton, the congo. so there's a reason why a lot of this house nowadays are just not interested. firstly, they're all distracted by ukraine, which is my main preoccupation, one ukraine. but secondly, if you look at france, france has gone from being very hostile towards the, the regime in kigali to being a best friend. it's relying on rwandan troops to deal with the hardest rebels in most i'm fee or it's got total has these considerable gas interests. the british are completely compromised now by the attempt, which is currently books. but that project to export asylum seekers who are unwanted here in britain, the whole idea was that they were going to be sent to wonder that's on hold, but hasn't been cancelled as a project. so those are 2 key countries. key donors, which normally would be quite vocal in criticizing your lender and they've effectively been science. they're holding their tongues, they know perfectly well. what's going on. i, i speak to someone that has put those players and there's officials and they know perfectly well what's going on, but they don't want to say that leave the states and the states won't stay on good terms with ali because there is this emerging profile that rwanda enjoys, have been the policemen of africa, and there's a feeling that maybe, you know, increasingly ruining peacekeepers may have to play a role in combating the hardest right in the hell. so why alienate rwanda? so everyone's playing it softly and in the resulting scenario, of course, it's a convoluted to play the pay the price and angel. what impact is, is all of this having all the people who live yes, thank you. good afternoon. oh, the effects are disastrous. as you may know, the 522000 refugees are seeking asylum, or we're in a huge in com or t asti. as a beside that, we have 5600000 internally displaced. companies talk less of the one media and all who have a sign up in the next. but in our pre on it since march this year, we have more than $262000.00 persons who is pleased and new. and most of these are actually displays for many times and in the territory. busy model where you are, the one is located. we have 128000 persons who ah, is this, this is a law yet, and not as a series of displacement. and i am glad to hear from the previous speaker that this whole all my, if i should say so, has begun almost 3 decades ago. and there is no that there has been no peace. and if i may say, regardless of who is behind this, i believe the most important thing is that the people here on ground need piece. ok, the need piece at long last in the meantime, i mean that there, but there is no, no peace or what's being done to care for these people, as you say, who've been displaced, some of them many, many times before. we indeed are many needs. the people are again and again, this is definitely are in dire need of center. my agency is the lead agency for the center cluster that you, when and or, and he or we are trying to bring about that shelter, not to this as a piece where me it is that we need these. and now many people are sitting an old. busy old site and in schools or are public or buildings. we need to take them to some center. we have been working with the local authority to get a seat belt. but these people, and yet we got one which i understand now the security might not be guaranteed on top of what we just not found there. so really will be that humanitarian trying to bring up the basic needs, including shelter, water, clean water and, and on, of course be so many challenges to face natalie's among them is continued insecurity. that meeting needs the star, fred, uganda said on monday that is going to send a 1000 troops into the d. r. c to join the regional force which is fighting the rebels are tory, got hundreds of soldiers are under a separate agreement for what you are saying about uganda is involved in the conflict in the 1st place. a is the presence of, of uganda and forces. gotta help or hinder the situation. so you're going to, going to join the not forgotten like they've done, i forgot community for and i have to say for me, with respect to you there is i have more of dollars on with that 4th is all can be really effective in is all the content in the knowing that many are countries in both its own interest in maintaining some sort of security. so you rhonda has already made it there is fighting limits in results so far in the area we there is the evidence is breaking into the fees. i don't know how you got it, i can come and then to be fighting against. and if we go through like mid to like rhonda who would be in a in the before back in and $33.00 there is also they came on in the region. so far, i think a couple of hundreds of community and military and it's no with by adding more and more and more choose without the peer coordination that will lead to market this industry. why did what people have so little faith in east african initiatives and, and peacekeepers, i mean get, has to do on it's got and as well as just keep on like model. and i think it has to do with the years of coughing because i mentioned that piece has been going on for 4 years for 3 days. almost there is people who have been obliged to leave their how the time for 5 minutes, then region by group with the same with them be a night by the families of you know, group they have seen more square on the 20 is seen. you've got the mean better, and then now if i think you can understand clearly proofing the percent off of people in the lab results of u. n. s. and the, and also the confusion of seeing the 10 people who yesterday came in better come back coming back as it is last. and by the time you read in the region, and i think the people wanted to find a solution, not only for on this stage of m to didn't phase little bit and but try to question, why is it possible but a group like that, if we will keep recycling itself is up and probably not a question, but just put that question to the keller in just a moment, as well as, as, as what she thinks of attempt to, to mediate piece. but 1st mckellar of the u. k. and france, protecting rwanda. well, they're protecting it with a silence, and they're protecting it by becoming, you know, collaborators with rwanda and various other projects. for francis support, it's a, it's $82.00, you know, it's unveiled, it's major a to run de, depends on rwanda, full is peacekeepers. work in mozambique it's got a lot invested in that total installation. britain is desperately hoping that rwanda, which is the most populated country in africa, is going to take all of these on one to design. and so it's, those countries are obviously, you know, the complicit they, they've been pilots because they are relying on the one that they have this completely hypocritical and a normal situation in which a country that is creating conflict. union conflict is part of the conflict in east and conger that just goes on and on and on, festering on and on for decades is being seen as a, as a peacekeeping policeman, elsewhere in africa, which, you know, these are 2 completely contradictory roles. but finally, the western house have signed up for the list for arrangement. so i think it's a for the internet community really wants to see and enter them 23. they would need to put the their aide agreements with rewind on the table, make it clear that the aid was coming to an end. and what we saw 10 years ago when trying to 3 was devastating. honda is that when they did that, then 23 stop being a problem pretty much overnight and it withdrew. you know, it was disbanded that we've seen repeatedly once. once the west uses it's weapons of leverage kind of factory, but it's not do without leverage. mikaela, what are the prospects them for the face talks mediated by a girl as president of the russia jewel for the 3? are they going to achieve anything? it doesn't seem to me that looks at the issues. i mean, you know, who's talking to who i and, you know, we have all these sort of these discussions with korea can. yes, i'm meeting rwanda, but people are still pretending that one does not involve in rwanda. still pretending it's not in vote. so, i mean, there's a sort of lack of honesty about the whole situation. i think i think some, the leverage is going to be required. that's what's happened in the past. and in the meantime, we see, you know, the m $23.00 gradually heading towards goma. goma is going to be a big challenge for the i'm time free because it's why is it going to it's dreamily unpopular that we've seen this in the past is a huge amount of anti dirty sentiment. i'm mostly damn high street, made it so that you paint a pretty big picture, maybe color for the for the moment. do you think that this does nothing to, to end this country? i need a pretty short answer from you here. yeah, i think the international community needs to wield a bit big stick on rwanda and that it's being invited to attend koch me. things as being continues to be faces around europe and in the industrialized. no, if you cannot send out, these message is the same time. ok that we must send it. time is against us. many thanks to day for being with us for bama angel, the congo at on gonna and mckayla wrong. and thank you for watching. don't forget, you can see the program again at any time just by going to the website at al jazeera dot com for further discussion. join us on our facebook page. you'll find data at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story, and you can join the conversation on twitter or handle at a j inside story from me. adrian finnegan in the team here. and 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