The government crackdown. Many of lives for decades and consider that home. But the pockets on the government blames, ask guns for search and attacks by on groups. Human Rights Campaign is say, the deportations violate International Law. Many refugees face dangers if that falls to return to afghanistan. And well discuss all of this with our panel of guest shortly. But post this report from clinton on the visa scans are headed for an uncertain future. Many have lived in pockets down for decades and cool at their home. But now theyve been told they have to leave the large moving 40 years since we migrated to pocket stone. Many of us were born here. We have businesses here many of working as labor is. It would be very difficult to return to a country where there was no education, no health facilities, and no work. Both sides security is our major concern. For the why do i want it . Why they seem to do it with the greatest focused on granted us citizenship. Often we spend decades here as guns are peace loving people. We dont want any conflicts or war as we will made victims of war. And today we are in the middle of nowhere for around 4000000. 00 afghans live in pockets done with nearly half believe to be and documented as many as 800000. 00 fled here after the taliban took power in 2021. But now the pakistani government is cracking down its ordering hundreds of thousands silly, voluntarily. Those who refused will face arrest and deportation. A half a 1000000 have already left, and thats now expanding to include those with pockets. Donnie identity documents focused on his justifying this on National Security grounds. Theres been up searching attacks by our groups and the government accused many ask on nationals of involvement. Yap, guy and government has criticized the deportations saying they violated International Law rights group like amnesty pitbulls, who condemned the policy as arbitrary and lacking transparency. But despite the pressure pockets done, it determined to continue leaving many with little choice, but to leave a place they called home for decades. Fence and bother him al jazeera for inside story. The. Were going to dive deeper now into pocket stones plan and its consequences with all panel today. And as long as the middle of a free because the social worker by trade, hes also a Public Policy policy specialist and cobbled fries. Outland professor of Political Science cobble university is also the chief executive of the Peace Development and democracy organization. Im in washington dc. Devin code, the Senior Advocate for women and girls, refugees, international. Thank you. All of you for joining us today. Let me start with, you know, the, i know you dont represent the, the pakistan government, but explaining to us why is paul cust on kicking out all of these off guns a this. Thank you, james. It. This is a complex, a question and beyond sir, is not simple and hes gone. Be explained in without looking at many aspects of it. But in short, these a game being played and messaging between uh the, some of the government and our security agencies which manage the site or on Foreign Policy in particular. Now i added the dollar bond government. Im as you know, that the buttons one came into uh, power. Uh, unfortunately no one is done with the assistance and the becky of the International Community and setting the paper to or by i. So im a lot. And now they have a problem in this relationship, primarily by the, the type of interest at the thought of buying. I supporting which a him back to security forces. And of course, the civilian populations and creating in security on this side of, or in the middle of this messaging. And i find the gone slate, or by natural conflict, the most valuable most affected we have in boxes. Don had a launch, weve gotten them now in modern languages, refugees, but the, the, its a symbiotic relationship between uh, amman, living on the west side and bundle just on and keep the tribute but doing for a populations. We are one people in your all along. So to speak, but in 2 countries. So its a symbiotic relationship and the is an ancient of back and forth and living trading set, their minds manages, you know, thoughts, book, culture, etc. So when the 2 states decides to Start Talking to each other, wendy is a weakness in the relationship, its these populations which are undocumented in the modern sense, of course, traditionally on both sides are the 1st victims of this. So okay, we are, let me, let me bring in fights in kabul about this price. I mean, im just looking to think goes after on refugees of the 3rd largest, the space population in the world, off to syrians and ukrainians. Many of these people have fled. Many, many years ago, i mean its been for say more than 40 years of conflict, enough kind of stuff to to uh, gems it said, but i sent the explanation of uh gun marjorie not outgunned a few days from focused on its the more directly connected to the box on government and much establishment political pressure on friday, but on to and i wrote the policies to out of the med support in the region for by cust on. Its not only the kind of form focused on to ask the button to fight again. Its due to be by call, so they cannot make a uh, theres a se one site, martinez lee and also the one to the fed as or anybody to be under the wing go to control. And so you know, of guns. Busy of been did it for more than 40 gigs. Some of these are going to see a claim when they already turn into cause what ive done is done that they have all the legal documentations. Now they have the gun citizen cards. Some of them are having reserves, and condo is legal documentation, but jim spiker for the legal documentation. They have been up there at the po to deb, met within a 24 hours since some of the many, many of these, the refugees where theyve been exposed from a pack a bucks on top gun is. Im going not to live in getting that includes with a new deal to do to line my last number of them, of living and job to you send a were the security in the situation was far more better than the student to be able to try and resend it to you and i was really starting north and south. So all those claims that connecting good eddie connecting to my of the few g expulsion from focused on to the to, to be a problem. I think the those are the yeah. Not evidence based in the my fathers intake of my claims. Okay. Well its just a few things you mentioned. The ttp is the pocket stone caliber on the durham line is the de facto border between afghanistan and pakistan. Just so ill view, is there a way devon this started last year . Did it not phase one this im told it was about half a 1000000 of of guns were repacked created. They were ones with no papers, a tool as i understand it. Now its phase 2 people who have been issued with something called an ask um citizen card. So these are people that had dont comments to be in pockets, dawn and it seems like pockets. Dawn is now arbitrarily changing. The village as he of the pos is itself issued. It seems like its hard luck. We change the rules. We do agree as well. Exactly. I mean, the package that has not signed International Refugee convention, so they are little bit different than other states, but they certainly have given scans, legal paperwork, like you said, to ask him citizen car, which was issued to more than 800000 people. So more than 800000 atkins, that had been in pakistan for many years. I have this legal right to stay in pakistan or so they thought, but now they are being deported are being asked to return and of those half 1000000 never returned last year. You know, some of them werent deported, but many of them, you know, were forced to return in the sense that they were told. If you dont return your styles, we are going to depart you. And as some of the other people say, people are deployed within 24 hours so. So atkins that were in the back of san for a long time, didnt want to be deported without any their belongings without any of their family members. So instead, some of them, you know, chose to leave, but we, we actually Just International certainly think that that is compose, you know, that is, that is being course i would say to leave rather than having to be a voluntary return to childcare understand so. So certainly, um, you know, pakistan has given some legal rights to, to refugees and to ask ends. But not enough. And those 800000 people with um, the scan citizenship cards like you said, or in the next ones being you know, targeted. And if with of of deportations, then if i back to you, um, this 1st phase that took place at the end of last year was on the interim government because pockets done how did selections turned out to be pretty controversial elections. Now you have a new Prime Minister share basel show, reese, whos in office, and its the new government thats instituting phase 2. Is that debates on this impact . Hassan . Is it controversial . I told there is a case the supreme court, and we have something called the bowman or 2 hours. Its focused on, so the governments common goal. But the 2nd Foreign Policy decisions remain in the elected box, which is the bombing and power. And certainly the owner see the, the, um, you mean the army . Exactly. So they make the decisions. These are the, you know, uh, i would relationship with, oh, honest on. And it really does not take into consideration uh what the sentiment as such are. But in this particular case of the sentiment oh, towards the hans, for example, amongst the pursuing population in a box on really very different to those in a job and grouchy. So like as one of the finalist from probably mentioned back, you know, theyve been picked up many of on refugees had been picked up from punjab and in send, send them particular has a problem, you know, with the book doing population, whether they are of hot or whether the fox on you citizens do it, feeds into an existing do you know to be are as well and the i a fear or be minority within their own. You know a cities in the province and in particular and in punjab, any way they are still disconnected from anything outside of the punjab that they pretty much follow the b line of what the stablish ment happens to be thinking at that time. So i would, ive answered that question. Uh okay, so let me, let me, let me bring in devon now about the legality of this. As we see here, theres a, theres a case in the pocket stone supreme court, but um, the International Law is this legal um, you mentioned earlier on the 1951 Refugee Convention pockets done is not a signature treat to that until the main principal of this is something called no food, no reform, all which is the principal of a refugee should not be returned to a country where they faced serious threats to their life or freedom. Those thoughts apply to park a stop. Well, certainly not as long as it is in a principle that applies to all states, whether theyve signed a Refugee Convention or convention or not. I mean its, its against the law to return people to places where they will face essentially case torture of where their human rights will not be recognized. Um, so, so certainly the principle itself is important and then applies to pakistan. Also, i think we need to be aware that you know this, were talking about this phase 2 of deportations. And this is for the act in citizenship cardholders. But the proof of registration cardholders are the only legally recognized refugees in pakistan. And while they have been told they are not part of this plan, they could be in the future. And certainly weve also seen that even in this 1st phase of deportations, some people have proof of registration cards for the part as well. So, and, you know, police and the pakistani authorities dont necessarily always go to law. Theyre not, you know, it depends on where they are and who they are as to how theyre going to implement. And just to be to minute, just to be clear, devin, the proof of registration, todd, which is the one that is supposed to at least guarantee you the ability to stay that that was jointly issued by the government to post on you and i see all the un agency, im told you havent been able to get one of those for 15 years, but not issued the last the day. They issued them in 2007, and the last time you issued them. Now they sometimes get prof, registration cards to children, or people have registration cards. But other than that did not issue new proof of registration cards to anyone just becoming recently. So for example, we were in the past and last year speaking to people who had fled since the taliban took power and were, you know, extreme risk, especially for their individual, you know, work or identities. And they cannot get approved registration cards. So certainly anyone after 2021 has not been able to get them. But like he said, since 2007, they have not issued new ones. Flies from these people who all the in pockets. Dawn, as he was saying earlier, many of lift that for decades. In fact some of them have lived in pockets dawn longer. They lived in afghanistan. If it gets worse than that, some of them were born in pockets, dont know of going to still on the tow. It took that split it to unfortunately of math focused on government to the into the previous and also the current government and the, the item you be. Busy my doing on this job guns just to disrupt the, to the Public Opinion from the failure said that you have had in the past few years, especially in a political its 10 years of the government that they had the previous government to complete the, to them and didnt have toppling down and brown hot in his government and then having the election that isnt to stay election as Everybody Knows is not the we the. Busy the deluxe dani and the nation and the people to be with assuming the route and the zip code. So frigging and. Busy my laptops. Busy because uh uh, uh, controversies, uh that has created a new government. So its much more in florida and that domestic consumption sick. Just to disrupt like opinion the tico we the publics. Uh huh. The sentiment from uh the main to the penny. It is of the government, the army within the country. They are blooming dog guns, 12 live data club for no. Busy and many of them have been given that data to be a good life dance but uh, contribute to the economy. They have got to be sure to the stability, but theyre not blaming each and every one. Know, 4 on the affinity is that the governmental faced and ive been reading through some of the reports from human rights organizations notify like human rights watch. And amnesty international, i say, as well as these deportations. That means all sorts of facility towards this community, including from the place, please beatings, not raid priest, the bonding bribes, confiscating jewelry, live stock, bulldozing homes. What do you make of those sort of reports . Yes, it is unfortunate. I mean, im from a town called machine, which was a, have a 50 percent, would be a long refugees who have sector there for forever. And when the deportations were happening it was the largest in gunman gap. So the feedback that one was getting was exactly um, as we were saying that in, you know, like uh, in an undocumented landscape where youre dies, its very invisible. Theres very limited Media Coverage to pull best on. Not accounted for impact on the economy of the area by removal of this hong population, which has been very much parked in integrated into the economy, whether documented regarding me, you arent documented, but it certainly is part of the economy of that, of just on and to some extent in get be, has had a dire impact as when, so, yes, they have been and they have been stories as well on, you know, the, and why the board thing, you know, are these are a legally activities by the police and the default of the 14 year agencies. Yeah. And hi. So one of the things im told is that the park is telling me a sources of limit to how much money you can take out of pocket on to 50000 pockets down rupees. Thats about a 175. 00. So these people, many of whom had the money and had businesses in some cases, arriving enough kind of stone destitute. And as weve heard 30 poor, so you cannot make situations in pockets, dawn, but its what i saw on your side of the board, or is it not . And thats what it to that sir, my very panic. And when did it turn . Talk on a sunday turn to, but does it go to touch no country which is not recognized politically, which is under the stick nomic function. So it doesnt cover legitimate government debt, which is, which is banning the money, the government that if i thought it is here to beginning to go to the school in women and participation, so not facing like a nightmare to go to a push to a far better to an area with the they dont see any future goods as to why many of these people, many of these are going to stay out of my god under huge in august on a need on, in the past 3 and a half years and millions of them out for a go to the fusion, passed a 3 or 4 digits of destruction, water and catastrophe. So its really, you know, very much not been expected from a country a neighboring country, which is established based on the carlo official and the muslim unit. And the country, which is my, which has given us about 12 guns during the a completion deal with it and getting the patients and being part or for a gun. It started as a major, collaborate to religion and was supposed to. But the, and bus 2 in our fuse buckets time has been a coincidence mode as an enemy. And by these, all kind of sort of live data for the gate. So thats why interested the lives there, age edition, their minds and money, and okay, and by just starting the cables that devon and some of these i think i think is all i could find about 600000, arrived in the me should off them off of the telephone takeover in august 2021. Some of these people, a people like human rights defend is like journalists, like people who worked for the United States, worked for nato people who will read me off guns security forces. How worried . Oh you about these people going back and the risk that they might face . I mean all they were turning some of them to a death sentence. Oh yes, we are incredibly worried which is why we think these do partitions are not to mention what the other panelists said about people having lived in jackson for decades and making their lives back their people the newly arrived pakistan that left afghanistan because of taliban took over and because they are individually targeted by the child in and they will be upon return. So again, i mean especially i would say women, human rights defenders and female journalists and women that really stood up against the ideals of the taliban. Little tab in are now in charge and they are at great risk and they, and even, you know, the women many girls more generally. I mean, theyre going back to why do you and others have called a gender apartheid state. So that its not, you know, were worried about them for, for general reasons, but also certainly for specific reasons like you said, because some of them were specifically working with United States with other western allies and working on ideals that are contrary to the taliban and put them at great risk, they return and we have no way to protect them. I mean, we have no way to help them really or protect them and they get some assistance upon arrival. But after that they, theyre really on their own. And, and thats incredibly concerning. Notify on that issue of the women and girls because some have said that women and goes now live most of their lives enough kind of stone on thats on the effective house arrest. These African Women in pockets, dawn who some of them had jobs. The raf gun go some of them who were going to school or university. Whats your reaction to to that site now . Okay. Um, before i understood that i want to respond that, you know, the International Community which brought the thought and bond 2 of on his son and supported it and pushed it and uh, fox. The son was supposed to be for pasco stone, was the telephones biggest support . It wasnt not a pushed by the by the americans that dont last you know, uh, alliance and negotiations pushed and lobbied by the americans and would be of hon. Refugees in boxes. Don, lets not forget to be americans by natural, as you will need, c, r has stopped funding the refugees. Why in boxed on. So a box on which is under Enormous Economic spiraling down. Um, as pointed out by our panelists as well, hasnt started using the outlines as the low hanging fruit to locate the books. But to go back to my point all but go back to my point on the women and girls. The, i mean, youre terrified for all, you know, like the rest of the panel about what might happen to these people, of course. Absolutely. But then why did the International Community supports that donavon coming into power . I mean, those of us who have been fighting for human rights and democracy and womens rights both in focused on was certainly not in support of the International Community. Pushing that donavon coming into a harness on the want to go back to face the at the end because weve been talking all of this program about pockets dawn. But there is another perspective. Another aspect to this, there are ask guns being the policy is some from to key, but huge numbers from the wrong as well in the ip. Yes, but the, the, the partition that is happening from a to key audit on its many delay, but the probation like that they, they dont, uh, the default in my spock is done is doing good. The familys one sick and the, those deportations happen. And somehow in coordination with the, the, the fact i thought of these here in a cop when they do the paper, what degree do they do concert at the negative process . And then the, my, the bring them to my legal to china is like, uh, and, and my florida. But to top one is in the august on, its far more to get the stuff it can be different because they do mazda partition without considering the legal process. You understand without the, you know, taking depo to authorities or how kind has done and to the, the, into managing the utilities are but a small uh, support has been provided through unit c out in other agencies on the border. But what happens later on there is nothing going on. Nobody knows what, you know. Im not saying nothing going on. If you look at the International Appeal of full afghanistans 3000000000. 00 us dollars for 2024, it is currently only 7 percent funded. Thank you very much for all guess today for joining us and did a, a free to kazi fi salanda and devin cohen. We do this program 7 days a week and you can watch it at any time on our mobile app or on the website out as 0. Dont com with you and once your contribution to what do you think about the expulsion of that of guns . What do you think we should discuss next time i do comments on facebook. Facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story on x, where we are at a inside story from the james space and the team here, please stay safe. Bye bye for now the these are the mythologies or the dramas they used to march through delta t before dawn box with an increase is really military presence. Its too dangerous. As daylight arrives at austin begins instead of traditional decorations, the street club carts, images of young palestinians killed by his ready forces. Its not just a lot of decorations, usually during ramadan, thousands of policies and towards will or is the city often defies the field we used to be lost on the street right now look, its easy to move around. I think there could be different warren going to change the situation in nablus. We have 70 percent more Business People here say the heart of the month is even more significant this year. A foster emphasize with those hungry and suffering in concepts individual. Now more the us army use the highly toxic herbicide with catastrophic consequences. Agent orange was the most destructive instance of Chemical Warfare a decade later. The same happened in the us state of oregon. These helicopters flying over the ridge spring something and they didnt even see the case for 2 women fought for justice against some of the most powerful forces in the world. The people vs agents, orange analogies, 0 works out of their existence. That slowed ship as a principal present as a correspondence with any breaking the story we want to hear from those people who with normally know that forces on the International News channels. One moment ill be very proud all was when we covered the fullness quake of 2015 at the terrible natural disaster. And a story that needed to be told from the hall of the affected area to be then to tell the people story. It was very important at the time or the government challenges here, where the, [000 00 00;00] the hello, im just all the time and this is and use our life from the coming up in the next 60 minutes. The engine palestinians are taken to hospitals and ross of 7 people, including 3 children, were killed and overnight. Is there any strikes on payroll and now the attack on an