And it will cease fire with Ethnic Armenian groups appears to put the countries forces in full control of the region there by john and armenia, have battled over the enclave for decades, but this time our media kept out of the fighting, leaving Ethnic Armenian groups in the region to fend for themselves in the coming months. The future of those groups will be decided along with their integration into the as everybodys on the state will go to our panel in just a few moments, but 1st, defense them on, on, as this report, after lightning offensive, azerbaijan now said its in full control of the door, no car, box, Ethnic Armenians from the disputed region agreed to lay down their weapons and to spend their forces. I mean, a saw as a result of the status of the Anti Terrorist images. Azerbaijan has restored sovereignty. The events that occurred yesterday, and today the same time will have a positive impact on the Peace Process between armenia and azerbaijan. I want to hope that al steps the results of Anti Terrorist midges will eliminate the obstacles that will put forward express, proposed, quote, what you want from the armenian side. And this will create a new reality long term piece in the south. Cool because the anc clave is internationally recognized as part of as or by john. But large parts were controlled by epic. Armenians with close links to the armenian government, to wars of and photo from the corner car box to pull the soviet union last full scale conflict in 2020. So as or by john makes sizable gains. You know, mean yes, the latest that the spark protest. Many say ethnic, our meetings in the corner car box were abandoned. They want Prime Minister nickel passenger to stand down pushing and says the army in the military wasnt involved in the latest fighting or the seatbar process. B of men course from english. We hope the military escalation will not continue because stability is very important for future projects. Thousands of russian peacekeepers failed to stop the fighting. They helped evacuate around 10000. 00 ethic armenian civilians. Now build malls or isnt use these fire. As as or by john seeks to reintegrate the region and its people been mullen for inside story. The already from war on all this, im joined by our guest and assemble is as marriage of her over board member of the center of analysis of international relations. Shes a former, as everybody on diplomat and advisor to the minister of energy and youre on is arson. How about john, editor in chief of alex media and armenian georgia and media platform. Hes also the former Foreign Policy advisor to the armenian Prime Minister. Also in the symbol is matthew prize, a former us mediator to the and i going to car about conflict. Hes a former us in basrah to as there by john a warm welcome to you all. And thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. As me are, let me start with you today. Uh. Is there a bridge right now . It tends to bring the going to turn box under full control. Will they be able to do that . How easy or difficult will that be . Oh, thank you very much for so 1st of all, for the invitation and uh, you know, as a bridge on conductors and shorts, uh, on tide harris operation, we call a local for size anti turners operation, which is aimed at only beach such as in the military target provided that uh no civilian objects for even harmed or is or the object of operation. And the reason of that was that recently 2 days ago, 7 and several johnny policemen for account as a result of the landline explosion that were of trying to the end, deliberative hauser bridge on the land via the invitation. Also, our union forces officer that was over. So we have been warning about this threat for a long time and also about the existence of the around 10000 new issues army name and which is going from a very to 1000 bridge on the last. But we were all going on heated so as a result of all these events happening, one after another has ever done decided to embark on this shore to local. And so i told her as operation, and you know, that today there was a meeting with the representatives of the crowd behind me. Yes. Can you have ross . And there were some agreements which between azerbaijan representative and they represent this all the corner behind me against and you walk on, among others, were a commitment and a fighting by their agreement of the cease fire that was reached yesterday each im one of those results. 3 months, the causes in disagreement was that there malicious has to visit that is on fine, has to these are impose to go sort of design much. And after that, of course, there is are also close that about the discussion of x, y, and the rights and the conditions for, for the car behind me is the oldest issues were discussed today. And this is only the 1st meeting. So there was an agreement about the full off meeting as well. Mm hm. And then with the request book by a crowd behind me is towards our representative. And one of them was to, ah, satisfy their need for a few or 4 minutes hearing aids. And those needs for met with satisfaction. So it will be a full i was a part of behind me in spend as a by john. So what im saying is this. Yes. Yeah. Is there actually is sorry to interrupt you, but let me just get back into some of those details in depth with you shortly. I also want to turn to our son right now, ours, and i want to ask you about the fact that the Prime Minister nicole pushing the on, has said that the Armenian Military was not involved in the latest fighting. And that theyre not involved. Or they have not been involved in the ceasefire process. What does that mean Going Forward . Does that mean that he has accepted the outcome of this . Well, 1st of all, thank you again on my end for inviting to the show. I mean, a, not only the Prime Minister announced at our meeting in military, it was not present in colorado, and Everybody Knows that thats been true for the last 2 years. As of the summer of 2021, there was no army in military whatsoever. It was all taken now, the russian peacekeepers had been there watching it either by johnnys have been controlling, gets very, very tightly so that you know, that i will have to address still 2 points that our colleagues as being on his players has pointed out, talking about and then not, not touching cd the and so i mean we have over 200 people that ill tweak, including civilians and the children. All the 400 people injured people are, i mean, the whole world has been seeing caused a ton of gifts has been shelven, bombed villages have been destroyed. People have been evacuated outside of their homes. So, i mean i, i dont even know how, how you guys are talking about not attacking or not targeting civilians. But talking about the army and military or arming is involving armenia has said that its not going to go into war. We does everybody on. However, its open for receiving people who would like to lead from what i can understand now from our media and from our contacting car about the situation is so dire that i think 80 percent of the population would leave the place right away. Coming to i mean yeah, well basically because they, they dont have anything. They dont have electricity, they dont have the fluids, they dont have basic supplies. Now with regards to the meeting, a today between car behind me ins and outs are about general officials. It was the 1st meeting, as we all heard, car above. Armenians announced that they were several points where they had no agreement. I dont know how its going to go move forward. It does say a bunch of these announcing, this is one of many. We dont even hear what exactly what was a kind of a hardening is were offered. I dont think anybody has any basically confidence in possibly leaving the there i was there about dining room after the a day of attack areas for on seen car box any fall colleagues from other about john are actually genuine about any kind of integration or dialogue. They should stop killing our civilians and the population. You never know kind of matthew, what weve seen transpire in the past couple of days from your vantage point. Does that mean the end of this decades long conflict . I mean, is that what were seeing here . Essentially i think so, i mean ive been working on trying to mediate this conflict since 2001. And there have been moments where there seemed to be progress and then back tracking. But the progress was always toward coming up with a framework, a theoretical framework to settle the conflict. In this case, the framework was established already now uh through the ceasefire statement of november 9 and 102020. After the 2nd quarter by 4, there was an obstacle. Busy in moving from the framework to a final peace treaty, we never talked about a peace treaty in the past. Now, a peace treaty, i think, is definitely with insight. But the, the, the, the president of the European Council shot of michelle, the us secretary of state tony blinking, had been, had been leading one mediation process. The russians have, as well as their own. And i, i think what was really the big problem that was blocking the finalization of a peace treaty has been the presence of weapons and call them car box militia, or the asked by chinese call them. Armenians forces in any case, as long as those military capabilities were there. There was a time patient by extremists to oppose pushing young in our mania, who dont want a settlement to be able to put a lot of pressure on him. And also that military presence served as an irritant for the hazard, by johnnys side, and undermined any sense of trust with that military presence gone. I dont see any serious obstacle to a peace treaty except to push in youngs own survival physically and politically. Because he has some very strong opponents now, one year of on who, who cant believe that he didnt bring our media on the side of the car. Bulky armenians as mirror um, one of the Big Questions right now is how is there by john going to handle the issue of the Ethnic Armenian population of the going to car box. Um, you were talking a little earlier about details of the plan thus far from your vantage point. How to go forward with that because in your yvonne we seen that there had been protested that a voice fears that 0 by john might be points to launch a crack down on Ethnic Armenians in the corner of car box. I personally find me address to points that were raised by, i mean by our i mean and goes guess before hand, you know, when the military operation started, there was an estimate of suffocation sent to all a representative or a civilian sitting in car box in order to make sure that the, if i created and as a general sort is also one, was the russian peacekeepers in the cases of, of our Creation Office civilians from those areas. And theyre gonna turn corridors. Were also created for them. So the problem is that our meeting at craig is located during the jury fortification near the inhabitant areas. So maybe they could have been some collateral damage, but those numbers are very, very excited. So i wouldnt really go was those numbers along. So we took all the measures of precautions for gas and the single dont last, so thats dodge. And the 2nd issue is about the presence of some of the shows that the mr visor raised and that was a number one secure. Its a threat to as a, by john and they liberated, as i put you on your lands, reintegration or kind of a harmonious listen also this is the number or theres a human dimension also to this issue. A 7500 other by john is kind of go back to the birth of manse because of the land line, right. Because of the existence of the illegal militias and those territory. And nobodys ever talking about that. So again, if before talking about humans, right, the, so if someone died mention which of those are not true return line i to the fight of other chinese, better for expels from those serious or was sort of years ago. Im back to a question. What as about, john, is, are planning to do another, to reintegrate those for these people. The car behind me is to, i was the Magenta Society we have raised and reached out to them on number of occasions. I mean, were the only person we think of when i was a virginia for this. Im kind of behind manufacturing. Com candy off a couple of months ago, but then they refused another. It me think invitations because the separate his forces in armina the was just, they were just tracking them down and preventing their meeting is also mcdaniel forwarded. And the meeting into a block that happened the currency. It was also a plan to be before these meetings before the notes or operations donnas but they also refused to come to this meeting. So no would, didnt have to go through this, lets say violence or military operations in order to reach out to carve armenians for the dial. If we had been reaching out to them and extending our hands of conversation and dial up to them for a long time. But they were backed down and skipped back by the furthest horses under these conditions. Now the st. The talk uh the are the plans that a car as about johnny will forward these off pushing forward. Well, they are reintegration for their culture. A ride for their educational rise, and this is all on the, on the discussion. And im sure that the book i could find Common Grounds during the course coming meetings because this is only the 1st music. Im sure they should be more than 6. The call. The arse, and i can see that you want to jump and im going to let you do that. But i also have to ask you about some things that map you brought up. Matthew talked about the fact that what has happened in the going a car box has brought some peril to the potentially the political survival of the armenian Prime Minister. And i want to ask you about that because on wednesday you had thousands of protesters taken to the streets of europe on they demanded the resignation of the Prime Minister for his handling of this crisis. I mean, how much does this imperil him politically . I mean, its definitely having an impact on that. 60, no doubt about it. People are doing some of the people who are originally from car of a who ended up losing their homes and, and, and, and where to back or move to armenia or have legitimate anger. There are also political forces, often times linked to external parties. There are, of course, people who are angry with this government and theyre, theyre there during the streets that they would process even today. Well talk about the possible political survival. I mean, many was the tech talking about physical survival. I dont know about that, but well see. But i have to get back to that. I mean, i mean, can we not actually stop, but can we stop fabricating stories . I mean, nobody was given him any 30 inquiry or for the last 10 months as their budget has been blockading. Never know, caught off. We had people dying out of starvation. People couldnt get out of the car above for their medical needs. As everybody on a couple of months ago, 2 months ago started talking about yeah, sure, no problem. We can open the out of that route and you can use us there by johnny territory. The amount of hate fruits thats kind of a hard means are hearing about themselves. The amount of anti ard meeting and notions that we know existing azerbaijan, all busy. There is an between, between the societies in general, im not talking about just as their budget. Thats true. But were talking about sharing that were being compared to cats and animals. We believe we were constantly hearing that you either reintegrate forced, forced integration or you have to basically make your choices. So right now, in this level of rhetoric both on the state blood televisions. Busy the all to show levels. I mean, how do you imagine car, but i never know kind of a hard means getting along and saying, you know what, it all didnt happen. We know youre now great. We can live with you, give us some rights and well get along with that. My funding and what we see from here right now, and theyre going to call the hard means, are not only, i mean, fighting for their own lives on daily an hourly basis. But i have no trust and confidence in any possible cohabitation, which i think in the long run is a huge mistake that as i about john is making, i think before we can talk about any form of integration or integration, there must be some kind of a dialogue of the reconciliation process. There must be a law process of discussing call. We can actually imagine leaving together, let alone just being reintegrated by force. I mean as what, what would you guys to, i mean, yet proper. I think, yes, the next day. So the next couple of days well see what happens when we do see that some kind of a connection between this attached and car box and the protests in europe on. We also see all busy the big boy in the, in the, in the neighborhood in the region. A rush out being cutting the peacekeepers on the ground and being unable or unwilling to actually take care of or, or, or, or implementing their mandate. And march that hours and obviously im sorry to interrupt you, but i do want to ask you more about about russias role in this. So shortly i do want to go to matthew matthew, i saw you reacting to some of what our son was saying there. So im gonna give you the opportunity to respond out. Please go ahead. A stairwell in all these 21 years. I talked about working on the car box issue in the white house and the state department with president leah. The current president s father with this current president , with our media inside of the president of as or by john, has consistently said that also. But johns goal is the reintegration of the Armenian Community in to us or by john at the end of this process. He was consistent throughout the 2nd car about or hes consistent now. Uh and so i, i really believe that is the goal. And i also agree with our send that simply you cant flip a switch and say, okay, everybodys integrated because the law says that youre also by johnny citizens. There needs to be this long dialogue. There needs to be what is there it was talking about that guarantees for the protection of the cultural, the economic, the political rights, the security of the ethic, ard meeting and community. It will take a long time to work through those issues and to build the requisite trust. But the process perhaps began today with that meeting and you have lock, itll take a while, but, but its underway. As mary. Im with regard to the meetings that have been taking place and you have lock up. Do you expect that russia will be heavily involved in, in talks Going Forward as well. Thank you very much. First of all, if i may quickly react to our meeting representatives or its, you know, i, nobody said that this and for integration has to happen by force and thats definitely work. Thats my words. I have to subscribe to wasnt reprisals, so that it has to be a dialogue that was what i was talking about. It has to be a process and nobody expects these 2 nations that have disappeared in so, and im also on the most of it for a decade. So just re integrate into each other overnight. So it is a process, it is a dialogue, but we do not want our union improper or i mean a nationalist revel. She has forces to useful trait and to hinder this process, that is what is happening. You dont want and they used to prevent that armina armina. So carl bought from getting into dialect with us or by john, that was also the problem. So therefore, i wouldnt least want to be reset or nicer today. But also about the watching court or as of where john was offering content the i was on the phone can do both for a long time. However, the sword was both by concrete, from the surface. They didnt want to get an age to be slower because they just wanted to function quarter door to offer it was off in the check points because that will sees that you have to bring in the new shows and uh, the landlines into us about the territories and then create problems to us about job security. And then there was an agreement bridge on 1st of september that the bulstrode should have been open simultaneously, which was also again bulk at by our medium size. So as you see, we have been extending lots of proposals and lots of ideas of cooperation. However, they were all blocked because our menu was for, was preventing and they just wanted or we know lose a solution. So they just one of them felt quotes and then watching wrote open without going to check points. So that didnt happen. But now bulstrode are operating simultaneously and this is what i was about on was for for the 1st place. What about the rush us role . Well, you know, of russia has peacekeepers in the place and as a bridge on was cooperating with them when it came to the secure, the personal security of the car behind me. As in the areas where the russian peacekeepers wilson brown was the porch. I what, what are they will be the part of the dialogue was the corner of our news are not, again, this is not something that we would like to discuss with the presence of a 3rd party. Who would like to talk to carla about army as was citizens directly and discuss their problems ourselves, which happened actually today. So i dont know if you have seen the statement of accounts for essential ministration, but there are statement actually clearly said that there was some progress in the top. So let us talk too far. Behind me is our sales order to make songs, experiences be armine, i beat anyone else. I listen to the article which was happening today again. And the complaints and their demands were met the positive, different months about johnny search. So as i would turn it off and well take steps in order to provide them with fuel, provide them with some notes here and keep the asked for. So are the fuel and heating system for the schools, for the hospitals, and for all the necessary objects. For survival, for a living will be provided for them. So again, this is the 1st step in the dollar. They should be more steps, its a process, its the dialect, and they shouldnt be announced by that. The various of us are so nicely. Again, you do want to jump in, but i want to get back to the point you were making about russia. And i want to ask you about the fact that many in our media are criticizing what they see as the failures of russia. Russia broken to cease fire. Russia has had a, a peacekeeping force there since. And then theyll go in a car box is 2020 at many, and armine, are, say, russia didnt do enough to protect the lives of Ethnic Armenians. Um, how much anger was there right . Now, about russia, i mean, there are protests in front of the russian embassy, and there is, of course, the societies shifting in its maybe understanding before the rush thats wrong has been entities. But ill get to that. Of course, i mean 2 things that need to be uh, straightforward and clear. Uh you talking about uh uh the, the same page and the guest is talking about both the rhodes being open. Its simply not true. Yes, slouching core door was opened 2 or 3 times just to allow some people with Critical Care needs to be moved out by the red cross, but nothing was allowed to come in as you well know, while you were talking about opening the road. And thats it. Youve simply stopped you either taking it take you to leave it is what were hearing from us. I mean, this is very much a continuous policy or any kind of thing. I mean, youre making a condition, a situation for the people you never know. Car law though was which on it, which i so unbearable that they dont imagine how theyre going to be leaving with other. But jonathan on there, does anybody on the state . Im not even going to get into the rights issues and stop right now. While the you have lost negotiations or the 1st meeting and you have left whats happening. So public, it was being sale we were seeing boss. And while the talk was happening, i mean, can you explain why you were doing that . On the one hand, you were calling the people to speak with them. And not the same time you were continuing to send shells, even near the hospitals. The see really an infrastructure. I mean, other about johnny soldiers are inside almost insights the front of get and people are thinking. Ok, well next thing is like tomorrow night were going to wake up and were going to see us in about 20 flags here. I mean, this is forcing your way e and keep about creating a situation where people have no other choice but to ask and beg for evacuation. I dont imagine in this situation within this conditions as, as nice uh, packaging. As you can try to give us. I mean people are devastated. People became homeless. People now head basic supplies. I live on medic, medical meds and other things for months now. No after daring then by showing their leaving areas youre telling them well reintegration, thats whats gonna happen. Its all great. Take it or leave it is what were hearing basically and pushing out our pollution open. I dont know car box by every single step that you were making as much as today. The footage was coming out. Thats kind of a hard means and nothing but johnny smith and you, you quoted an outpatient. Here you quoted us at about 20 president s office. Indeed, you said that all this is one of the many meetings, im not sure if many meetings are going to happen if we continue seeing and constantly being worried about finding our kids right now, what im seeing on social media whenever they have internet in cardboard, they never talk about people asking, go ahead, but you see guy, have you seen this book . Just seen my parents. People are lost. People have no information. People dont know what is happening. Their communication is cut off. Their basic supplies are cut off and they feel like next thing is going to happen. It needs to be a type of map and everyone. Matthew, let me ask you, um, there are those questioning. If russia will actually be able to play an effective role in Peace Keeping Going Forward and many have suggested that russia is simply to stretch because of the war new crane. What do you say as well, you know, as much as my government and i personally locked horns with my russian counterparts on georgia, a win win russian bay to georgia in august of 2008. I worked very well with them when it came to mediation of the car about conflict and found them to be professional and creative, including foreign minister lever off even including president. Then president marietta and the peacekeepers, i think are basically performing their task. The peacekeepers mandate is not to intervene on the territory of us or by john carl box is part of us or by john the picked the peacekeepers. Their mandate is to come in 2 locations, as Armenian Military forces, withdrew with us with a suit, november 9th and cease fire statements said so until there was this, this clarification that there are no more armenian affiliated, military forces in cairo. But it wasnt in the mandate of the army of the russian peacekeepers to go in there. They dont have a mandate of peace enforcement. Their mandate is not to stop azerbaijan from taking what it believes is a legitimate security operation. People are not peacemakers by their peacekeepers. And so im hoping that now there is a peace thats going to be kept and that the russian peacekeepers will provide a sense of security for the, for the Armenian Community that will remain and cut about. However big or small it may be. All right, well we have run out of time, so were going to have to leave the conversation there. Thanks so much to all of our guest as mirrored. Jeff are over, are send her again and Matthew Bryce and thank you to for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website. Obviously were dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. Thats facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. You can also turn the conversation on x. R handle is as a james, that story from him. How much from german, a whole team by the, the the teva on algae 0 showing a host the asian games with athletes from across the region competing and celebrating sports. Rigorous debate, unflinching questions up front. Come through the headlines to challenge conventional wisdom u. K. Prime minister. Assume that its expected to address these 1st Party Conferences leader for the general election looming. And a wave of strikes being housed, the broke house premier, a new series, exploring the implications of us and to avoid the 1st amendment, right. Which is in liberia to the post kind of incumbent president george way over come corruption allegations and keep the temp job up. Tell you back on 201 day i might be covering politics Like Post Office a from serbia. Its a 100. Whats most important to me is understanding what they are going through so that i can be the headlines in the most human way possible. We believe everyone has a story worth hearing. The showcase of the best document resumes from across the network. On out the story of low patient and pay. What forces me to live in the account is my love for him to 0. Who old fellows this trouble over a couple. Trying to get there and said helpful. Palistine, you can convey that student should need to go out or do anything just say show t let come the price of love. Oh no. Just the ra, vindication of faith, terrorism and a per location head of the president ial elections in october. Which still is generally an in depth coverage to 0 is when you close to the last of the story. The serial venue in doha with your top stories on else a 0, a senior as a value, as are based on the official says ethnic or median fighters in the garden of carol back. Might you give them amnesty . They have been protests and a year of on, against the governments handling of the crisis. Talks are under way to discuss the reintegration of the region into as a base on following wednesday ceasefire is invited to pull up the cumberlands estate. A good kind of classifies this is a way
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