From so the decision was to really sort of take staffs stab at if we were in an h. R. Director what would we be recommending to the company in terms of integrating both pieces of law and because San Francisco has a micro business definition for businesses under 11 employees thats why we have two differences interpretations of the law with one for tenor more employees and one for under 10 not to say there may not be additional questions to be accompanied hopefully, youve had the opportunity to read through both of them and hopefully that worked for you to get our understanding as to if youre a business under 10 employees how to comply with the law and so for businesses with under 10 employees it is seems like there maybe somewhat an option not in terms of San Francisco but in terms of dealing with the state so first want to ask if there are questions or things bryan or i need to clarify for you. I have a question. Yes. Im unclear i dont know if i understand the part an employer may require the paid sick leave is used in an hour of increments or less so it is written into the law thats the language i think it is odd. It is odd it could be that the employer says one hour quarterhour increments it didnt have to be necessarily a day but this is that is just the we took as one law it is a state law that states that. It is. The state law that states that. The city law says 2 hours and were going to watch peoples coffee breaks and deduct that. No. More flexibility. Excuse me. Im feeling sick i have to leave. They may leave to leave 15 minutes early they can leave and collect on that 15 minutes but from my understanding the employer has to put that in writing so again, we went with what was the more what benefited the employee more bans those two laws. So if someone calls in sick how does that work they have to ask for an 8 hour i think if they call in sick for the day maybe a day maybe they get off at 5 and go to a doctors appointment so left at 4 30 so ranch using an hour of sick leave thirty minutes. Its not exclusively. It you had to take someone to a doctors appoint and you might miss 15 minutes of work coming in late it i think as stated it is designed to allow for the maximum flexibility for the employee to take that time and use it went. Okay. And the hours are based on the regular shift times correct so if theyre a 4 hour shift and call in sick but want to request six or eight hours. Their hours will be bans the scheduled amount of time i mean im not an h. R. But i think commissioner toursarkissian. I agree with that statement. Uhhuh. All right. Commissioner ortizcartagena. Weve discussed that. Hang on one second. Discussing the twentyfour hours on the micro on the banks up front is that vested we didnt get clarity if we go with the method do we have to stay with the 24 that you have to pay out at the end of our longer termination. No requirement at paying out at the end of the year it means if youre under 10 employees as we consulted with the state that an employer can comply with the state by saying you have twentyfour hours of paid sick leave available to you whether youve worked that amount of time to accrue on that method you have it to use to be able to use that meets the state requirement. Then. Then this is what we needed some specification definitive response on for the state from our discussion with the state if you do the twentyfour hours up fronted and it is available youve met the state mandate then to continue to meet the local mandate that allows the business awe krugers up to the 48 hours with the understanding that the osc has the rule around accrual their rule around accrual as best understood my their rule making in 2007 that an individual can use as it is accrued so of theyve accrued and used if theyve accrued. They can continue awe kruger and not meet the 24 hours cap. It makes sense but the people with the least resources or the micro under the 10 in the city if we can make it clear if you dont choose the twentyfour hours vested but go to a 48 hours. Our understanding and bryan correct me that our discussion us go with the state there are to options or being able two options the up front allocation or an accrual allocation what we the probability not put in here the state said you you know as a business can say well, you can only utility 3 days of that pay is it doesnt matter if this is up front you can limit the amount you as angle employer pay out San Francisco does allow you to pay that out if you have it in our bank to use we didnt include that in our summary of combining into allows. The state law precedes local. Their law didnt supercede where the alu local law would be better provide more. Im as an employee. Not better for the bits but the employee. Somewhere down the road this is complicated that portion and this is the one that fits the most Small Businesses under 10 and you know theyre not going to know. Right right now on the average office of Labor Standards Office website i dont know if theyll provide the guidance thats what we need to so we need to understand in terms of right now when they do sort of an Advisory Committee comparison not a method to meeting the city and states requirement i think this is an option that businesses needs to know. That right now they their side by side is the state accrual method and the citys accrual method does that make sense you look blank but, yes. And were fine by under 10 were not and that i dont want to get im just a Little Grocery store that is where the complication is once youre under 10. So i think insuring that you know i dont think that that they have jurisdiction to determine whether a business should be using the accrual method to the 48 hours because thats a state regulation their jurisdiction is up to the 40 so but, yes this is what we need and hence the request for response and the of our understanding of combining both laws and how a business will comply with it. So does that commissioner yeeriley. Yes. You send this to the average office of labor standard enforcement. We have not actually whats green before you to do get our approval to the Commission Approval to send it to the average office of standards and enforcement so it can be agendized as an action item to get our approval and if theres additional questions or additional points that needs to be clarified on the average office of standards and enforcement to forward and send on. What are the key differences between the company that has 10 employees less than 10 and more than 10 is it the same method 48 hours to 72 hours. The key difference in San Francisco which weve which one that businesses with more than 10 employees to follow San Franciscos accrual method San Francisco requires you accrue more hours up to 72 hours or shouldnt say allow an individual that allows a business to cap not awe country but to cap the basic sick leave it is the most important. No less than; right . Must accrue no less than. It allows you to cap; right . So if they dont use it and it awe criticize the bangup to 72 hours hours doesnt cap but if they use and stay under the 72 hours that as the by o ac written definition of accrual and use is there the states says you can cap unused sick leave at 48 hours. Why wouldnt a company incorporate this into theyre paid leave policy and say and basically rollback theyre paid evacuates and incorporate this and say youve got this in the amount of and combine the vacation and sick leave we encourage you to take it if you dont youre not going to get our full vacation. Once you go ppo you have to cash out. Now im going to give you one weeks paid vacation youre not restricted before you all of a sudden i have to offer an additional 2 weeks in paid sick leave so why wouldnt we change our policy you get 10 days paid vacation and up to 72 hours or 78 hours of paid sick leave. More than 10 days it is accrued up to 10 days. Right the thing is an individual my not accruing crew up to 72 hours hours. I have to figure out. Ill have to role play that one. I have employees that know that like the back of their hands they use it when they want to take a long vacationed to go over assess this is been a problem with the company theyll hold it gone year and transfer to 72 hours and come to Vacation Time they want a month and a half off. Oh. Okay so your proposing some language. So what im proposing is that we send our to our you know our two drafts of how to combine the law the two laws to osc for verification and response. Okay. And of course if there are still things that you think or after Public Comment that you know we may not have captured well enough were still or maybe we made some assumptions from we made assumptions operating from the local law that still maybe a question you can please let me know well change that or ask additional questions supplement it with additional questions. Commissioners questions or comments. Would it be helpful instead of the paragraph to list the differences. Well, this is what bryan and i went back and forth with about the difference and i think at the end of the day the business didnt hallway the business works the business isnt going to want the difference they want this law do i need to comply with and the state law and the local law to comply with; right . So if you were going to my h. R. Department ill say tell me combine the two of you know take the two of the things i need to comply with and create a policy document it is someway the basis of those two documents so even though San Francisco says you can you know do two hour increments and the law says one or two increments it it doesnt matter about the San Francisco two hour increments the one or less falsifies the employee so thats the one you need to go by and then your complying with San Franciscos law. I guess you can submit that but later on well develop some support tool or bullet points to be easier to read and understand. I agree with that two hours maybe the same thing on our website well have a little more down to architecture for people that dont understand this with the questions or comments it is useful ill suggest we because might add that to our website. Thats a good idea. Ill i think in our motion then what is important in the motion you direct the office to develop the questions and answers that are in the binder or come from o l s e from 2007 and at this point with our City Attorney our City Attorney was resistant to give a definitive recommendation because of o l s c has not made their recommendation and we should make a recommendation and we really need to wait for them to weigh in we have to the City Attorneys office has to give guidance how theyre to comply with the law first and foremost our local law but not in any way clvltd that stating; right . So lets go ahead well talk about it all day long most of us a dont have businesses with 10 employees we have to digest this this is the area that is the most questionable so i think you guys you and bryan have done our Due Diligence thats what i recommend we move forward with Public Comment first. I can say if it will help you, we can do i think once we get a response. Uhhuh. A side by side check list with the understanding yes go with this one. If it is so by side or a check list of what to do. Commissioners. Lets understand this is a work in progress. Right any other commissioner comments before Public Comment you guys here on this one oh we have Public Comments maybe angels will sing after you guys going to Public Comment before we do were on television for once in a lifetime my son is watch ill saying hello to reagan and juliet yet so on to Public Comment. laughter . I should be getting a text saying we saw you well have to have them rewind and watch. Insurance let me beginning by saying Small Businesses especially under 10 are about this and one of the things that is very, very disappoint is the average office of labor standards is not here or a prior meeting it is their obligation to come great the commission and explain what theyre doing i dont understand how this went into effect july 1st why the rules were not written by july 1st my second comment not talking about the new legislation but understanding by the conversations of Small Businesses they dont understand the aspect of it is not 5 days i can accrue beyond that period once our sick you can accrue over and days as i read this correct me if i am wrong if someone goes on the accrual they can accrue up to 38 hours accrual means the same thing in effect you could be required to provide 48 hours e. R. 6 days not 5 days as it is directed fwrshgs if someone has accrued 48 hours and over 6 days theyve accrued 6 days and get of days off and then continue to accrue last point and maybe this is not an issue but a question if somebody taxes the guaranteed 3 days and accrues can the city under the state law say you, only accrue up to 48 hours why in the up to 48 hours if thats the state law this is an important issue. Thank you commissioners putting to get this effort and reaching out to o lc with clarification thank you. Thank you scott ultimately it thas has to be resolved. Well push forward. Im here for the whole everybody or evening not just this piece of legislation. laughter . Ill say get a life but its public. laughter . From the Small Business network i wanted to emphasis the commissioner said go to the website of o m it doesnt give clear guidelines of what is going on if you talk to Small Businesses under 10 employees most dont have a clue right. This is going to make it obviously that much more complicated whatever comes up in an ordinance comes it has to have a requirement for o l to have guidelines and it is not just would you, please because theyve shown theyre not going to do it law if it is going to work like it or not everybody has to know whats happening thank you. Steven. Were all in agreement if you cant figure out how to comply theres a problem well continue to work diligently and how figuring out and advocating for the osc to advocate with that ordinance especially at will specifically in the realm of less than 10 employees. So. Just if i could quickly add what happened on july 1st, we created a liability exposure for the businesses like big time. Exactly we have a situation we dont know how to comply but were at risk interest someone will figure out how to took advantage continuing of the risk probably on attorney somewhere so we need to help noknock on attorneys over the course because their smart people but some other lawyers will figure out how to get us out of it any more Public Comment seeing none, Public Comment is closed did he we have a motion over and over recommendation. I definitely i would definitely motion and i really liked what commissioner yeeriley and commissioner dooley said about listing maybe on our website once we figure out the differences are i mean, i have an h. R. Person that is an expert at this and even shes trying to go figure out the new laws something she talked about but we i mean shame on o s l e for not getting anything out this effects the Small Businesses in this town i absolutely motion we do this and once we get clarification on our website and suggest they put on their website as well you know a block of how things are. Can i just add a little bit the recommendations or the clarifications we have just an expedite 10 and under of they dont respond to the whole process but 10 and under is the most urgent. Surely. The 10 and under are flying blind. Right the 10 and over youre good the citys good. 10 and over you default to the state thats the best can say for the employee. And so just one last question to finalize as bryan spent an enormous mauchlts trying to put the two together we can also supplement it with this over this if you think this will be helpful or this is enough to get clarity and based on their response work on a check list. I think the work is good just ask you dont have to answer everything but focus on the tenant portion. What is required to change San Franciscos legislation was this legislation passed at the supervisors level or is this and yeah. So it will require a requirement. A ballet measure. Fantastic. laughter . All right. Before making recommendation as to what we will put in our web page i submit we should get a response and then well come back right. For this body and decide how to do it. I dont know if we know what to say on the website this level were simply dealing circle with o l s e and not only substantially what weve written but also at a you know level of basically expediting them to resolve this issue and if it can be resolved what if its not maybe thats not resolveable in which case. I think there is resolve. Right. It is and it may continue to being in check with the state to insure that the response theyve provided the office didnt change. Correct. So because i think that we did submit to you a copy of the questions that bryan submitted to the state so the state attorney susan dead on arrival by our question to her about can a business use it twentyfour hours up front allocation be in compliance and will it be does it matter to them to comply with San Francisco if they then do the accrual of up to 40, however, this is dealt with her response if they use the up front their complying e complying with the state so but they could as more questions come up may sort of rise their determination a thats not in public writing either. Are there any other county that has this issue or are we the only county. Would you happen to. I dont think so. Well, the action you need is to paragraph it so you can give an approval to submit. Thats the general understanding. Yeah. Itself the u an urgency to 10 and under. My motion im going to skip i like what you said lets wait lets get this into the s l e with an urgency every 10 and under employees for an answer. Thats the motion right. Do we have a second. Okay. Second do we have a second. Yes. Commissioner yeeriley. Roefrment. Commissioner adams. Commissioner dooley commissioner white. Commissioner yeeriley commissioner toursarkissian and commissioner white. She had to leave early
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