Postulates the social conflicts will inevitably find their reflection in our individual souls and vice versa. Our daily joys and struggles invariably shaped the societies well leave in that same line of hearts. What can truly make the world a better place to discuss it, im now joined by adoption wise, professor of psychology and merits at the university their field to adopt. And coal officer of restoring the kingship, 12 you professor, non rice. Its great to talk to. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for having me. Now. As a psychologist, im sure youve been dealing primarily with the microcosm of, of a human soul. But we live in such precarious times that i want to start with the macro question, because social sciences claim thats been no more than we ever knew about the nature of the human condition about what makes human human. And yet, if we look around us, we tend to be on the precipice of so many potential catastrophes from ecological to cannot make too well. So were going nuclear. What, how do you explain dive how deep but wide youre seeing. That is what i think weve become a civilization, a global civilization that re relies on this connection. And so that starts from early life. When babies are treated with disconnectedness, they as, as there are more like machines or plants rather than growing dynamic beings. And then that continues with schooling that ignores their hearts and tuition, development and stair embodied wisdom of living in the earth and, and pushes them into the intellect or the thinking mind. And then adults think thats the way humans are. The reason is the, you know, and will, thats all you need. And so then we have a whole system of sets of systems that focus on analyzing that way of being in this thing that our whole heritage is about connectedness and connectedness to self connectedness to others. Connected to the natural world, and when youre disconnected and have this kind of on a look or perspective of, of, you know, subject versus the objects. Youre going to be destructive because you have no sense, no hard to know relational awareness of what youre doing. Well. Now i think all Human Society is across history. I have tried to find the balance between dignity and connection between you know, the individual and the connect, the collective between an individual soul and the whole. And i think many cultures have different answers to that even now, when you say we, and when you refer to more than societies, do you mean the entire universe or, you know, all countries all cultures or do you, do you mean somebody in particular as well . I know im referring to the well civilization in general, what we call western civilization, which is sort of dominated world. And its the, you know, from the enlightenment perspective of just detaching from responsibility relational responsibility. But our, our, we have, we still have societies that operate on our end, social needs and relational connection orientation. So i study nomadic forgeries and they, we, we spent 99 percent of our history in this kind of society. And only one small percentage of the last one percent of our existence. So we gone in this very crazy direction in the same direction where we were not attending to the effects of our actions or, and then focusing on, on thinking the thinking mind and controlling. Thats very um, counter to the way the Dynamic Living world works. Now. Uh, you suggest in your book that this is primarily the, the function of the ego. That is, it is a ego centric world that tries to control everything. And i think of a lucian narrow, it makes sense because uh the world is insecure and the enlightenment civilization or the enlightenment era try to sort of extol the or, you know, the beauty of consciousness or the development of consciousness. But uh, i agree with you totally that that is done. So add the cost of interrelated and this down connection to something that is being carried them at the eagle or something that i think you called the pervasive fly force. Other people are referred to as god. We can describe it as the universe, but that sounds off and you know, then theres something bigger. The eagle that actually exist, i mean, and not attached to solving the world. Why do you think on the west and soon civilization is soon determined as doing away with that because one thing i would point out is that in many cultures, the russian chinese, many asian cultures, indian culture, you know, theres a huge respect for Something Like god and its seen as Life Sustaining and yet its in many of the western countries where the believe in something bigger than you is seen as almost infant tile. Yeah, so, so thinking mind in miguel chris talks about the, the to house of the brain and the left hemisphere, which is what weve been emphasizing in the western civilization is unable was if you look at the damage brains or if you number one side of the brain or the other, you find that the left brain is this is what we see in our civilization dominant civilization today. Its the, the disconnectedness, the treating, the world like a set of objects thats all it knows how to do. And my work focuses on how we treat young babies. And when we treat them with disconnectedness, when we dont respond to their needs, we leave them to cry, we leave them alone. We dont carry them around all day long, which is what they need to grow. Well, because theyre selling, make sure theyre like, fetus is of other animals to about 18 months of age. And so they need, their needs met immediately to build connectedness. So because their brains are selling a tour, only 25 percent of adults size or volume a birth typically. So when we mistreat them, which i call under care, we dont provide the evolved nest our ancestral species normal way of raising kids. Youre not going to break, youre breaking, youre stressing, youre traumatizing, the child, youre breaking connection. They dont grow whats supposed to be growing. And then they have to build this big ego in order to protect themselves from all that pain and from the disregard, the disrespect that they experience. And so then you have all these adults who are really are arrested development and theyre more like toddlers or children because they never got their needs met. And they, they still are searching restlessly to meet those that gap in their heart, the gap in their spirit. Okay. Professor, can i um, are give it to you here a little bit because i think most school of thoughts recognize that its impossible to become a fully functioning individuals without being traumatized in some way or a shape. I mean, even in the most loving families, kids get traumatized and so i would argue that its a, you know, its an indelible part of human condition. I know you believe that many washington societies operate on these trauma inducing perspective. But its a fuel argument also doing that in a way, because if you only focus on what have been done to you as a child, rather than what you can do to yourself for yourself as an adult, to get and becoming essentially stuck in the trauma to all right, so you need to work on healing yourself as much as possible, but there are sensitive periods for different aspects of Brain Development and neuro biological development that pass. And if you havent received the nurturing care at the time, youre going to not be as strong in those elements. And so then when you reach out of lessons, for example, youll have depression anxiety because the gaps of the brain because its developing still. Now if you, its a parent, things are built correctly and so things start to fall apart under stress. So we need as adults to learn how to q our cells in my book on neurobiology. And the development of human rally has the longest chapter about what to do if you didnt get your needs met as a young child when all these things were being built for. Well, the reason im asking this question is because uh, before the war in ukraine, i used to interview a lot of, uh, americans and the american actor. This time they always tries these uh, identity in trouble. My aspect especially manual be black activism, a, its not that i, i dont value or appreciated their suffering, but im absolutely convinced then that we, we will suffer in our own ways and there are no ones. Trauma is more valuable then somebody else has trauma. Its ultimately our responsibility before ourselves to, you know, feed addresses in ways that we can do as the american uh, approach to it seems to be dealing with its through pharmacological means sometimes through, you know, very short analysis. But i wonder if there are any other ideas that you can offer and not only to the americans, but to our global audiences. Can you do it . Can you give that gift to yourself without perhaps having a lot of money . All right, let me point out that from the burst to about 6 years old is really a sensitive period and that in that time period, traditionally we provide the needs of the child. We dont traumatized them because the trauma that you experience in those 2 years is really hard to hill and i like what a possible, right. It is comfortable in there are many instances of people doing that. Not really. It depends on what it is, is because your immune system is being established at that time. Your, uh, the way your narrow transmitters work are being established really hard to change those kinds of things. Very physiological. Most youre meditating for 8 hours a day. So you can do some of the healing. Its those early periods spend. One of our most famous psychologists in United States comes from uh, came from us. Uh, soviet background. You were a bronson brenner, any noted how in United States children have all these random kinds of experiences growing up. Whereas in russia, where he grew up, people love their children. They, they were so kind and even the community would always be responsive to the children that they met. So different in the United States where its, you know, theyre a pain in the neck, young children, you know, keep them quiet, put them away, dont minimize their needs. So we have this to go on tenderness in the United States. Weve exported it now to the world because the multinational corporations and weve then damaged the belief that babies need to be nurtured in care for and loved. And, and so youve got a whole bunch of traumatized people all over the world with post Traumatic Stress disorder. And that dont know how to, you know, the ways to feel is to build that connectedness. So we each as adults need to learn to listen to see, to honor the presence of one another to actually share our hearts and learn how to do that and be, and spend time together in loving ways. For now, i think you can also as an adult blame, you know, the way im that way because of my trauma. And i think thats now what we want. We want the huge, the awareness that we come from trauma, there are generational multiple generations of trauma. The europeans who came to the americas were traumatized. They were, you know, they brought it and they, and they, they spread it all over the world now. So we have to go back to understanding how you build a human being properly, how you feel and, and on ongoing way of relating to others. Thats respectful that honors their uniqueness and not treat people like objects. I hope we can discuss more of that after a short break. We will be back in just a few moments station. The, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the welcome back to worlds of parks with doctrine or vice, a professor of psychology america at the university of milton called officer of restoring the can ship world view. Now professor and thereby. So before the break a were talking about you know, the need to respect uh, the trauma without perhaps um, you know, turning it into a cold uh, you know, understanding your difficult history, but also claiming some responsibility for uh, for your health and for your well being and one of the things that, um, i mean um its a controversial view, but i think uh whenever i am in the United States, i sometimes feel the trauma is not only sort of uh, supported there, uh, because of the way of life. And there are no perfect society, i was not idolized rushed in this regard as well because i thing in this country, the collective factor has been historically stressed at the expense of the individual uh southward. But having said that, i, i open get an impression that in western societies, trauma is being capitalized on. Its sort of being used as a means of, uh, production you know, in a minute capitalist, aside as it says, something that is seen as a means of making money, you know, using peoples trauma, hide checking and making them a fixer, to certain substances and perpetuating this the cycle more and more, can you talk about that, you know, purposeful or purposely creation of new ros this as a means of bugs, you know, sustaining trauma versus, you know, authentic grief and, you know, facing with your time a face to face. Yeah. So thats a common problem in whats called high modernism, this enlightenment, a few old way of looking at the world to try to categorize things and then label them and then control the right. And so its in psychology, its in every field, and it is a, its a problem because once you have a label, then you feel like you have to be that way and you cant get out of it. When you apply labels to young children, they often enter a reputation track and they cant escape. And so they cant really be themselves when they have a label or hate. So much of the Healthy Society treats each person as a unique individual, not as a label, not as a category, and honors that unfolding the beauty of that individual work. Now, there is a lot of talking psychological circles about the and the problem of narcissism, and its called and youve been done like. And i wonder if narcissism in and of itself is a, as a direct consequence. Ill be in lightning worldview because once you sort of only recognize the Material World and nothing else. Uh, is that something that would foster seeing Everything Else and everybody else as essentially a functional means to to go whole feldman . My guess my bigger question is about the exclusion of, you know, the bigger is universe from, from being likely to view simply because, you know, there are certain things in this live, the cannot be measured then the, i think the promise of being likely will be, is that if its not, if its not measured done, it simply doesnt exist. Yes, i agree with you. It isnt an issue. The, that the ego consciousness only knows itself and the left hemisphere is only wired to know itself. We cant relate to the world. Thats what the re hemisphere is able to do, and things are more complicated than that. But its a, a representation of how weve shifted into one little tiny bit of humanity and then decided thats all there is right. And its ryan with spears able to connect to the universe to relational empathy and all, and we, when we undermine Early Childhood development, we are undermining those capacities because thats one of the right hemisphere grows more rapidly that i think one of the reasons the ego is doing that is because its ultimately insecure, even though it presents to be in control. And this is i think what you call the dominance mindset in your book, the kingship world. Here you suggest that, you know, theres certain ways that mode dominance. Im done. There are other ways to promote wellness, and as a student of archetype will say college, im very tempted to frame it as the king or the window of the king versus the can my side. Can you elaborate on that . Why there has to be such a division into black and white and to win or lose with nothing in between as well. We try to not have that binary view of the world. Its the left hemisphere or that you go consciousness that does that right . Its sorts things into one or the other either or whereas life is a dynamic flow. Its a shift and sometimes you need a hierarchy. And sometimes most of the time, you dont want it in our heritage we, we were fiercely a gal, a terry and thats, thats how its call it. And so there are shifts between things as the rigidity of the civilization or ego consciousness. That is a problem, right . Because its unable to move off of those binary. So there is a major rise in alexa by may of the split clinical condition, not only in western societies, but the increasingly so in is the societies as well that is characterized by sort of the, the ways of this billing function. And the difficulty in distinguishing between bother listening stations and uh, feelings im thinking in your book you all for many ways all on how to sort of bring that. Um i paradis back into human life. Uh. Can you share some of them . Yeah, so, so in early life with the baby, you want to be face to face that relating to them so that they actually are building the brain capacities to get along with others and, and understand their feelings. They learn from their experience, why the baby experience is what they become as adults, were gonna have to do a lot of therapy, right . If we have the lack of those capacities. And that again is the face to face, relational attunement, learning to recognize self, you know, you have to build, youve had your heart cut off, perhaps your spirit, your intuitions, and you have to build those up again, and then learn to get along with others. I use folks on games in my classes so that children, the students learn how to, you know, be with one another for build a sense of social joy and capacity to get along and then expand their imagination about how theyre connected to the universe. You also mentioned being the one on one with nature. And i personally found this an amazing way of doing that kind of work. If it was without the, you know, psychotherapist because uh, in or in russia, we have a different kind of narcissism because of our war passed. Many of our ancestors, you know, our friends mothers, grandfathers focused on the actual survival of the child. You know, feeding him. You know, taking care of him and thats also the form of narcissism, because youre, youre essentially treating a kid as, as an object that have to survive rather than a living human being. And thats a process many of the motions and they, i think its 2nd point, they didnt even have time for emotional exchanges. But one thing that i found very helpful in my own path is just being one on one with nature and allowing nature to hear me because this is one of the other things that you mentioned in your book, the universe. Demetrius call, part of it wants you to be, you know, enjoying this life and it will help you if you allow that to happen. Yes, its so wonderful to, to be able to go out into a semi wilder wild nature and just sit there and listen to the trees and learn to build the receptive intelligence and the comfort that the earth gives you just lie on the earth. First thing we call that right in your corner. So what is your stress levels going down . Right . And there are many ways to connect to nature. Weve done some research on that as well. So yes, i think thats a everyone can do Something Like, even in a city, Pay Attention to the clouds, the sun, the dandelion, or the, the grass and the pay for that. And you can connect. Now youve written a lot about this so called in budget morality, and i think this is a challenge and concept for many people on to understand because we usually associated morales if its something natural, something that people, you know, declare from a pope. Its something that theyve preached, but dont necessarily practicing it. What are some of the ways of cultivating, embodied morality in yes, and thats what i focus on in multiple books about how the, the early life experience, again, is the baby. Feeling the out the fee of the parents and then developing their own empathy. Theyre learning, theyre their shape and their body to be socially a tone to others. And so as, as adults too, we can learn again to be in our bodies right now. Be present now, wherever you are and connected, wherever we are, were in a web of relationships. Pay attention to those relationships. Now, are you being respectful . Are you being towed to those youre with . And that means, you know, to appreciate the water are very different from other earth. Mother. Earth is giving you so many gifts. The sun is a gift, right . The sunshine. So Pay Attention the now the present. Im myself and ive it. And so there are some both student of crowd young and he wrote a lot about how morality is not something that can be imposed by society. And i think it would even question your or prime is that the childhood experience is uh, has so much way. But i think and hes view, uh, you know, a, you know, the thomas that we receive his children uh, are important, but there are ways of overcoming them primarily because he is here again. Uh we, i know the only the christians of the past there is a certain, uh, sort of forward looking function within us, within the universe that wants to us to heal. And that constantly pushes us externally and internally in that direction. Now its very daunting and they, at the same time, a very inspiring task. Because essentially the progress of that argument is that you, you will have, regardless of what happened to you, you will have to do the work to sort of recover what is underneath the trauma. And this is something that i want to ask you about. Is there something underneath the trauma . Do you think its worth looking below it as well . Let me just say 1st that we, we are living and civilization that is trauma inducing. We forgot the pathway to wellness. So the wellness pathway is a multiple kind of layered system to building our full potential as human beings. And i think we, we just forgot that we do so many things that undermined wellness. And so i think um are you have to be careful not to just go back in to thinking mind right and saying, oh well, you can do whatever it is to heal yourself and its all in your head. No, you dont have to feel it here. And perhaps even down below. Yes. Yeah. So were holistic we want to heal the got the brain, the brain to but the part especially, thats where we cannot and we know the heart has all sorts of thing influences on how we think. Right, with god also we havent got brain access now and the ways that our ancestors raise children made it all work well made it all fit into that. Be yours in the system and the dynamism of being a member of the earth community. I began and diagnostic a phrase that as a box below at so i, i believe deeply that, you know, the individual work also helps the society. But i wonder if you believe that we will ever reach doug golden age, where most people on, on the splendid, understand who they are and no one theyre being shaped into. But who that truly intrinsically within you know, that bodies or do you think ahead of time really run out before we can actually get to that glorious point . Yeah, so its a challenging question because the climate instability, and disruption thats going on is, is quite distressing. It wont take much more to really make a hot house or is but i am an optimist in terms of what the potential is for humanity. And i think that sometimes our ideas, like the collective unconscious, is like a virus and then everybody changes. Right. And we are in complex systems and just little changes around the edge can shift the whole thing. So thats what i pray for. I hope for that we can all return to being connected to feeling connected to everyone around the planet. And, and i want us to have your books out for a several, very practical and very easy to do ways. I mean, it does not guarantee you uh, you know, the full ceiling. Thats what, thats what it would ask for guarantees. But there are certain ways that each one of us can do to feel a little bit better one on one with yourself on the, with the world. So thank you very much both for the books and for this conversation. Youre welcome. Thank you. Im thank you for watching both to sir again, and it was a part of the, [000 00 00;00] the take a fresh look around is a life kaleidoscopic, isnt just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. Fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as it shows you, fractured images, presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground can the, the Prime Minister of the laser area and, and to impose government fits out at the you for prepping to slap sanctions on the country. Those locals profile over the tripling restrictions already imposed by the echo wise, bring these use economies in danger of collapse and with the sanctions and threats from eco us. Eco us aim is to prevent the qu,
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