hello and welcome to crossfire for all things considered i'm peter lavelle we are told the d.o.j. scalpel riot investigation is one of the largest in american history the f.b.i. has made it clear it will not leave one stone unturned seeking to prosecute what he calls domestic terrorists all of us want answers surrounding this horrific event but is this also a purging of trump loyalists. cross talking the capital riot i'm joined by my guest william binney in baltimore. he's a former intelligence officer with the n.s.a. in raleigh we have brain mcgovern he is a former cia analyst and in ossining we crossed to don de bar he is the senior producer at c p r news or a gentleman crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it william let me go to you 1st i was going through the pages of the american conservative and this article by james bone of ard came up will f.b.i. chats send conservatives to prison i think that is probably the most direct way of starting out this program because it looks exactly like that to me considering it's been months now since the riot on capitol hill we have preciously little information and we have the head of the f.b.i. seemingly to go out of his way to please congress in their hearings about those horrific events so what about this title will the f.b.i. chats send conservatives to prison your thoughts go ahead. i think they will attempt to do anything they can to to discredit anybody involved in the trunk campaign and the trump supporters and i think that's where objective they've been trying to label all the way all the trump from people all 75000100 as terrorists and that's the way that that's the way out that's why they had that section and 21 input into the they the authorization act or the military authorization act back in 2012 that was one of the basically stated that the same thing that a special or a 48 did when the nazis issued 933 that said they you know the they had the authority to imprison anybody with the military and do that and keep them indefinitely with no due process whatsoever that's exactly what exactly was special order 48 was and eventually they used the nazis used that to get rid of all their political enemies their leader but he also they didn't like and that's what's really looking like it's going to happen here ray why is this investigation taking so long the f.b.i. the d.o.j. of asked for more time it sounds like they're trying to can looking for more dots to connect because they don't have enough dots now to make their case so they need to keep the have a much larger dragnet as it were that's what it appears to me because they're there and they're reacting they're answers to questions why you need more time don't make any sense to me so i'm going to have to come up with my own suppositions go ahead bring your thoughts. f.b.i. is unrestrained. it's known soup of ice it has a record of deceiving the american people mostly for the last 4 or 5 years for the current phase and you know when you get people like. senator grassley of the judiciary committee in the senate who is supposed to be overseeing the f.b.i. and department of justice. when he comes out in a tweet noted no less and says what ha it's the part bit of just us. now i don't know if you got that from bill binney but bill bernie has been saying that for 3 years or more ok the department of just us and what the aggression a me immense employee that with the f.b.i. violating the law kleinsmith their lawyer. fabricating information to justify a foreign intelligence court word. and call me lying saying that the steel documents the steel dossier so to speak was verify that's what he told the judge on the same day of the national intelligence director no still she still stuff has not never been we can't corroborate it same day we have written documents for 2 so what i'm saying here is that if you need further proof that the f.b.i. is unsupervised and can do whatever it was used to is now ranking chair of the judiciary committee and the senate you should be the chairman and he looks like the partment of justice is really the target of just us and i'm reminded of that wonderful dish you were where they say you know it's a big club and just realize it you're not in it that's exactly right you know don they did this also this investigation into the riot on the capitol on january 6th this is expanded into the military i find if someone would have told me a few months ago that they would be purging the military for suspicious thoughts bad thoughts ok and obviously it only goes in one direction here i mean this is a dragnet as it were here and it seems that all branches of government are pursuing it here in the end just to go back to what bill had to say because about 75000000 people voted the wrong way is that's how we should interpret it go ahead don. first of all the thing that enables this the event quote unquote the you know the insurrection whatever term the someone wants to throw against the wall to see what sticks what we're talking about is a couple of 100 people that went through the capitol building without authorization with the capitol building when a joint session apparently was guarded less effectively than say the football field at the super bowl for sure it terms of security because the fan 6070000 people could never overrun or have never overrun that yet and they're really except for the one police officer and the woman that got shot in the face or the head or whatever they're murdered by the police that no one was killed they didn't burn the building down you know they walked off with 0 days and then made a mess out of the place for that the trillion dollar military it's rather got it was how much money we spend on intelligence agencies and the f.b.i. which i would include in that they all of them are being you know turned inside out and reexamined it reminds me of. my concerns about our air defenses that were supposed to protect us against an attack by the soviet union for 50 years suddenly were you know easily penetrated by a handful of knuckleheads from the middle east and a couple of jetliners and yet they wanted to again just as an idea that would give patriot act september 2001 you know they want to do away with everyone's civil rights and human rights over this and just one last thing for the people on the left and liberals who aren't there but who think that this is ok because it's being done to quote unquote trumpeters take a look at the cointelpro papers take a look at the records from the citizens committee 50 years ago last week that broke into the f.b.i.'s office should transylvania what they found was out of 50 some odd percent of the cases that they handle that all of their budget most were handled were against political targets and only 2 or 3 percent were against the right most of them are against the left and it will be that way here also if you allow it to happen to anyone you know bill explain to us you have a long career in this here i simply can't get my head around the fact that how many countless billions of dollars are spent on surveillance on teligent on gathering information how could this get how could this possibly happen on the nation's capitol i mean it doesn't make any sense i mean you know they're guarding buildings all around the world but they couldn't guard that one can you won't get an answer to that because they again they they they won't they won't give us a straight answer on what happened i think that for something of its magnitude they're remarkably quiet except for the number of investigations that they're pursuing and the number of people that are in custody and the number that could be go ahead bill. it's pretty to me seems pretty simple if they had some evidence that this would be prepared in advance and they knew about it in advance and yet they did nothing to beef up security or anything to be able to. deal with it as it happened so it meant to me to be simply put that they wanted it to happen because that would allow them then to discredit the entire trump campaign and and strike or move to try to classify them as terrorists and that's exactly what they've been doing and yet most of them just went through the white and white the capitol building taking pictures like tourists yeah you know who the ones who are the ones who are doing it were very few in number and they were the ones leading the pack inciting the people to do other things and then when you get people together in mass like that sometimes that's an easy thing to get some people to do and that's fine i thought i meant it was their client. right read it weigh in on that because i think that's very important because as it was just pointed out i mean they were taking pictures to put on instagram and facebook i mean what kind of criminal element or criminal intent does that i mean bill just hit the nail on the head there i mean this so it looked like a lot of tourists and then it got out of hand a small number of people what turned it into a riot but even if the you know i mean they had a guy that looked like to baka i mean it was this is a fake us all out or something go ahead ray or you know i think we have to get out of out from the trees and look at the forest here. why was this allowed to happen. who isn't who is in charge. it was the speaker of the house nancy pelosi and that fellow from kentucky the leader in the senate. they're the ones in charge of the capitol police and they didn't do anything so we have to start looking there know what is next he pelosi saying now well she's shit talking to hillary clinton and she's saying my god we have to have a $911.00 investigation lynton suggestion clinton so that love to see what putin was telling trump. of genuine ok now you left i left even the new york times this left that that that i think that's the only russian thing that they didn't play but think about the implications here a legit stand this oliver stone was a friend of mine told me that during one recent session with low demeanor cuttin putin exasperated threw up his hands and he says you know the russians are being treated just like did jews were in the thirty's before world war 2 and quote well was that me but i mean they're being scapegoated they're being blamed for everything and what's the implication of that well if he and hillary clinton are still running the democratic party right when it all comes to push comes to shove this spring when there are demonstrations in the street who's going to blame for that well it's big going to be a hand of of losing reproaching because all roads lead to putin all right that have a major all right ryobi job and here gentlemen we're going to go to a hard break and after that heart break we'll continue our discussion on the capitol hill right stay with our team. as are the staff who have her. whole. problem one has lost. it on a lot of the other you know the top or bottom. eric yeah. i'm going to let him but i'm going to cut him then you can keep an eye on what i have to lose each other for truffle not it living. below the blood. on the show the downside of. this whole food place choice the i knew you didn't pay i think time in syria says. the model for that in africa will fuck around with mr hates it for a jim and then boil for hope that our freedom in your court. is you'll be a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation community. are you going the right way or are you being led so. direct. what is truth what's his face. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. aura maybe in the shallowness. welcome back the cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the capitol hill riot. ok let's go back to don here you know don one of the things i find very distressing even discussing is that if you lie to the f.b.i. and that can include casual yeses and casual knows you can face a prison term but the f.b.i. can lie to you or right and building their case and unlike what they're being patrolled in the media a lot of these terms supporters are the most vulnerable in society they make them into monsters but these are a lot of these people are or poor working people and. many of them are not very well educated because the american educational system is awful and so you have the full power of the state one of the largest investigations in the country and christopher way wants to go serve up something to congress in the media but you know if you if you have a cow if you don't answer in the way they want it like for example were you me or the capital bull in there my dear can mean something in the person that's being asked could mean something else but and they could say no that's not true you lied to the f.b.i. you were on their head list ok i mean it seems to me the f.b.i. is that there's this showing there that the veil is dropped they're showing really who they are. well 1st of all i mean that's pretty much what happened to flint to general flynn yet another is if you're a senior official you're not involved or a ball. and they use this you know they weaponize their investigative tools you know to be able to do that it's not the prosecution in the strict sense of a but rather in the broad sense of it out almost to the to the level or even to the level of persecution they have weapons that they can use to take out their political allies they if they can retrofit basically on to some statute to justify criminalizing behavior that is really not criminal behavior you know people were warning of this kind of thing when the rico statutes were passed him things like that but practically speaking the every day business of the f.b.i. uses these tools constantly get people and one of the problems that you know you have to take a look at this again in historical context 1st of all the american public have been certainly brainwashed about the f.b.i. and you know it look at the the untouchables to the f.b.i. time television these are the you know the most upright the best educated untouchable literally you know but a public officials in the business the you know that cannot be corrupted and yet it's the most corrupt there is to touche and perhaps on the planet when you consider the reach that they're corrupt behavior has it to where now you're looking at in essence the f.b.i. has established itself or some people with control over the f.b.i. have used the f.b.i. to establish themselves as a power unto itself even over the government i mean what i what i think we should have seen with this episode was a direct intervention by the f.b.i. in the outcome of the 2020 alexion one of maybe that led to the outcome that that we have seen. and what they're doing now which cleanup work and their event it is going forward where anyone who might 1st of all prove that there was wrongdoing with respect to the election in 2020 and secondly look to prevent that from happening in the future will be taken out as political entities by criminalizing them and you know let me get a bill here that's exactly where i wanted to go because it seems to me that there were going down the path of criminalizing dissent and criminalizing having your own opinion because and also with this you know if we look at h.r. one we look at this investigation we look at all of the shenanigans though associated with the russia gate hoax it seems to me and i'm going to make a big statement here but i think we're going in the direction of disenfranchising tens of millions of people you know what do you say bill go ahead well it's not just i don't think it's peter but it's also who like i referred back to nazis special order 48 that's the kind of thing they want to bring online and start using it and i see this country very very clearly from what they've been doing. you know it's not just it's not just target people for it just to get them out of the way or silence them or anything it's also you know doing other things like using i mean i'm quite clear confident that the f.b.i. is involved just like it were and cointelpro against silencing any kind of dissent internally in this country and using any means they have available and then they lose these like directed energy weapons we hear are in my house are also you know those from up front using spectrum analyzers they get that we're detecting these kinds of things being directed at us so this is nothing new and i'm not these people have not stopped at anything they don't lie in a court of law and they they fabricated evidence against us whistleblowers from innocent and the made up just outright lies about it's just that and got the court to buy into that because one is the court you know they don't know anything except what they govern. tells them they have no way of verifying your validating anything they're being told and they've known for years and decades in fact that the f.b.i. is lying to them consistently and yet they do nothing about it because they're part of it and maybe even. we heard reports over here that judge roberts was telling the rest of the members of the supreme court not to hear the the texas and other state complaints against this in franchising the votes during the day when then by having so many on the other states stuff ballots into the box and late they're even violate their constitutions internally in the states and in terms of how they handle votes so i mean the courts are involved in this i mean all parts of our government are corrupt now they're all an apartment he tends to cover up for the other early all fall you know you know i guess the the the the like me i was going to say the silver lining but it's not his silver lining since the opposite is that we have big tech kind of what i want to continue with my question that i had for bill there i mean disenfranchising people because with big tech now i mean almost all of us in one way or another live through these different platforms and all that and so i mean if you're on the wrong side of the divide in the f.b.i. says so in the courts won't intervene then they just disappear you you're just go on ok i mean it and i that's we've already seen. individuals and groups of people being marginalized and disappeared already and now that that with the grand investigation the most extensive in american history it will be definitive and they'll that will be the trigger that they will poll and then then we see a good part of civil society disappear your thoughts right. well it's very clear that the f.b.i. is riding high ok so is the whole national security state including the cia n.s.a. and the others as if one of the big deal here no longer being investigated i think that john durham the famous john durham investigation is over and other words the f.b.i. will not never be held accountable i'm not sure exactly what merrick garland is going to do as attorney general but the signs tell me that he just sweep it under the rug and the f.b.i. who demonstrably lied now give his his more recent example call me when you know told the face a court foreign intelligence surveillance act court 112th of january 2017 the steel dossier was verified yet on the same day we have the e-mail he sent to the director of national intelligence james clapper in which he said we cannot we can't we're trying very hard but we cannot corroborate what steele says and has to associate well both of those things cannot be correct and we know which one is correct shows that those has been completely discredited so comi lie to the court that's a felony and he's going to get away with it. now that's that's the the core of the question here because if john durham is just to go out to pasture. even despite his his visage from central casting you know that one on one picture is a hard guy well he's a hard guy right but when he's told to knock it off he knocks it off as has been proved 2 times in the past with respect to cia torture it's going to go away and then you talk about power the f.b.i. the cia will be totally empowered to do whatever they want but it when one thing as has bob muller left the f.b.i. he made big speech before a bunch of intelligence people including retirement people like me and i had a chance to ask him with 1st question i said mr mr miller do you have any legal qualms with the the notion of the parallel construction where you illegally like some with the help of an essay and then you use that with the local police or say look there this is information you can use to catch a sky go tell anybody where you got to go tell the judge so tell defense don't tell anybody and you could get him you have any problem problems with that you know he said he says mr mcgovern. after 911 we were a bit weird being given special authorities will give me a break special authorities as far as i know the 4th member of our constitution is still exist you can have special authorities if i leap but that's what they use as build knows better than i and they're riding high right now and they're very much an in league with the people who invented all this russia good stuff by unfortunately was one of those you know. it seems to me that they're going to use this the the findings of this investigation which will who knows could turn into some kind of show trial they're going to put all of these defendants on trial in a stadium or something like that because what they what they want. to do the direction they're going in to they need a trial like that such a media event that legitimized the national security state control over everything and you have big tech as i said earlier there we have their back right there and it will be mission accomplished they would have it because they did they never want 2016 to happen again and that is not a defense of donald trump coming from me at all what i'm talking about is that they will make sure the system will work the way they want it to because they that the system failed them it didn't fail the people it failed the people in power go ahead don't remember something at the very beginning here we're talking about the national police force. essentially having all power accrued to it or run through it that is a per se definition of a police state and given the scope and magnitude of the american state both the us territory and around the world it is the largest and scariest police state that has ever existed in human history this is the context for the conversation that we're having now while we're discussing this great leap forward in acquiring additional power out of the people that have been arrested already in washington the hundreds i'm going to guess the same game that they play with any criminal prosecution is what they're scaring the hell out of most of the people who are innocent of everything they get them to eat out and testify against their people ok gentlemen we have run out of time it looks like we're going to have a police state will have a smiley on it here many thanks to my guests in baltimore and also me and thanks to our viewers for watching us here dark to see you next time and remember rules. debate is is it fair for trans women athletes to compete in women's categories and sports. as a society we've decided to categorize for it's based on sex i definitely do not think that it's fair for athletes that from porn as pilot can males to compete in the women's category. why do we have gender or do you have gender kind of person sport because we do treat men and women differently. every single beat athletes will. we all have biological advantages over each other . are the same means a lot to me and i think friends are those of you here because i love to do it. and develop confidence and belief in myself and i've learned the value of hard work and dedication. i don't doubt. that these men say that the field like a lot of it and they will not ever know what it's like to feel the loss of a baby her maybe biological free home of these that they will never do they really think this is fair. i just don't believe that. interest rates have created the divide and it said really the grounds for a new civil war i think because those who are allowed to get those 0 percent interest rates are i guess down through political favoritism not true merik those who are being subjected to high interest rates and then being cut out of the market it is also a political ploy by those in power to get more for themselves and to destroy the fabric of the economy and that's heading into serious trouble. the world is driven by shaped by. the day or thinks. we dared to ask.
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