Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240711

Become socialized into the fabric of society. It doesnt matter whether or not theres the victims of society. The end result is theyre about to knock my mother on the head with a lead pipe. Shoot, my sister beat up my wife, take on my sons. So i dont want to mess what made them do this. They must take it off straight as liberals cheer the election of mass incarceration, advocate, joe biden, we speak the u. K. , queens counsellor chris door about why the u. S. U. K. Approach to prisons is catastrophic. And why its now time to shut down prisons here and abroad for good. And why does the us have the highest number of coronavirus deaths with over 240000 and counting when the country militarily blockade communist cuba has fewer than 200. 00. We speak to copresent of cuban covert, 19 Public Health and solidarity about fighting about endemic with internationalism. Oliseh more going on today is going on the ground offensive. Joe biden ever becomes us president. In january, he will preside over a country with the highest prison population in the world, 26 years after he supported a crime bill. The critics claim was responsible for a system of mass incarceration that imprisons more per capita than stalin or mao. Joining me now is a criminal defense lawyer of a 25 years because korea and us Justice Systems in his new book, justice on trial, radical solutions for a system at breaking point. Chris dorky. Chris, welcome. Do going underground. A lot of people talking about britain, possibly breaking International Law or over a break said, but your new book is so beautiful and eloquently written about Britains Justice system. How difficult was it even to write a book at such a damning account of the judicial system here from the inside. To be honest with you, to spend a bit of time last year, just thinking about what a mess weve made of our justice not just in the last few years, but the foot from the century. We spent time just, you know, looking people up for no reason trying to criminalize drugs with no good to be want and even put children in prisons, you know, from the police just insane. So we have a completely dysfunctional system and hospital all these years with the only side of the system. I just think its about time the people on the outside notice not, you know, where we covered the plight of julian assange, the world famous journalist, the un, the special meals meltzer has been on this program, alleging he was being tortured at belmarsh prison in london. You know, some people, i dont know, some Mainstream Media newspapers call it the holiday camps, these british presence, you begin the book and bell much i do on his or her if it place is terrible to visit. As a visitor, as a lawyer, it takes a long time to get even as a visitor, but to actually be an inmate there, soul destroying. I mean, i went to the special secure unit there and i saw clients in there and you know, describe the conditions in the book. Its a soul is bleak, miserable place, designed to do nothing of the human spirit. And i genuinely see anyone has been anytime to which of course, some people say thats what it should be like. But in the book you quote peter clarke lead 29 u. K. Chief prison inspector, claiming comparisons with before the 18th twentys. We are in a situation where some of our prisons are no better in the way they treat people than 200 years ago, or even in some cases 2000 years ago. You know, we particularly at the moment, i mean, i suppose supply yesterday, i suppose or not on friday. They are being locked up for 23 hours a day in a small box. Now if that isnt of course psychological torture designed to do nothing but make people go crazy and actually come out of prison and commit more crimes that i dont know what its all the, some of the defendants actually feel safer in prisons. I describe some of the really deeply damaged individuals that act it for people who are, you know, with the care system as many people in prison, well, who were abused as children about it. As children often end up on streets and homeless and our prisons are full of people like that for whom actually, despite the terrible conditions, prison is somehow better than my family outside. And you mentioned, you know, why enjoy life asked to go to the eat, right . Would be the 1st, quick minute of practical advice before we get to the usa and russia. You trace jurisprudent trials, right from mayan civilization. Then talk about juries. If anyones up against jury trial in britain, you say, dont worry too much of judges interfere too much because juries they dont like it. No, thats true. But my experience of egoless chair is that everyone by not being told what to do by the judge. And if they feel the judge and given the defendant affect crack of the whip, the jury will say, you know, stuff, you just, we can it really going to decide the verdict that we like and were going to find the defendant not guilty, whatever you might think and of course, thats right, because thats what the system requires. That requires the jurys rigs a verdict, but ive seen it time and again, when judges try and kind of influence the jury and sight and see things about the defendant. And i mean to rock defense counsel, including maybe when in the middle crossexamination did. I see the jury says or say, this isnt fair. And if the jury does think its fair, they will say not guilty us the great thing about the english jury system. Well, over in the United States, everyone is talking about president elect joe biden, and perhaps i mean that lots of disturbing things in your new book, but when it comes to mass incarceration the policy espoused by joe biden, you come up with something called the city of incarceration just explain how you see the u. S. Justice system since joe bidens reforms. Well also that joe biden has been a huge advocate of mass incarceration. I mean that at the for the truth is that mass incarceration is a great end in the u. S. Psyche. And in the u. S. Criminal Justice System for all sorts of reasons the, that it has prevailed on every single president , the prison population, as i say, are not true. So about a city of incarceration. 2350000, people in american prisons that it would be the 5th largest city in america. If it were a city that is quite staggering. I mean, when you think about the papers and population, shes over 80000, but thats the largest in western europe. But there are 2350000000 in the truth of it says that they have this huge capitalist corporate structure, a private prison environment, which he massively profits of corporations. And vested interests that really theres no incentive to change and it cost them hundreds of billions of dollars a year to keep c with 35000000. 00 in prison. And you dont want to have a high straight savant problem or the owner. Well, i know you say all prisons should be closed. What you say if what you are alleging is true, that the reason things dont change is really because of the kind of corporate low being that goes on with judges. Its a mixture of things. The 1st is that there is a political attachment and its an attachment that the general public often shares to really tough sentences. So locking people up for as long as possible. Thats where you end up with hundreds or thousands of years sentences in some states because people voted for it and people like it. But the other thing is the criminal Justice System, including the prison system and many other elements of the system, is a multi 1000000000. 00 industry and their own vested interests. And maybe they invest the lobby of politicians. They have many, many candidates who are supported by corporations which are profiting from the criminal justice process. And american politics often, you know, depends heavily on the lobbying of private interests in order to see it in order to push policy along and that, and that, thats a factor has been easily increasing factor not being too american prisons. Ive seen the employers of the private sector and its a really, really scary thing. Well, of course we have private prisons here spearheaded by labor and tory government. You have no time for Boris Johnsons get tough platform in the election in december. Just tell me though, how have your peers treated this new book of yours . Because given that it wants to abolish prisons, given that it talks about this, these political pressures on justice and paints such a poor picture of justice. Not only in britain in the United States, and i should say, other countries, russia, which will get on to what have you piers said about it. So i think many of my colleagues support the cruelty. Yes. Its that the criminal Justice System is completely broken. But when i was writing the book, i traveled all over the us in particular in the deep south with some of the, you know, the most draconian prison sentences are imposed on some of the worst prison conditions. And the irony of it was, i spoke to judges who are responsible for imposing these very long sentences, or even the Death Penalty and to a man and woman, they all say, we know it doesnt work. We know these very long sentences, a ridiculous, we know this, an 18 year old to prison for the rest of his natural life. For drugs, crime is easy, a moral and counterproductive and ridiculously draining and expensive to the state and destroys whole communities. And my sense of, well, why do you do it then . They said, because if we didnt impose sentences like that, no one would vote for us and we wouldnt have a job. Hes going back to democracy. I mean, joe biden was also playing as well as supporting the crime bill that the war on drugs must be fought central in your book. Not only in the United States. You also talk about what happened in russia and russia came into crimea. Tell me about why drugs are so important to the injustice that you document in the book. As i describe in the book, i think i managed to, i mean i had a lot of research on the book. I managed to find examples of the early human 2000000 years ago, taking psychotropic drugs in the fall with psychotropic plots, and sort of code evolving by using psychotropics as off the development of the human species. And the truth is that people have taken drugs of one kind or nama, since time began, and they always will. And so the problem with criminalizing something which is so fundamental to who we are, all we do is that its never going to work. And when you criminalize it, all you do, if you create this, she black market, huge opportunities for profit, for all in all as criminals and sob sob, backbite by government. So all corruption in the states, all this just operating is these Massive International crime. It works better, you have an unregulated losses, organized crime market. What follows is types what follows the violence, what follows is murder on the streets. But in all of these, i mean, you talk about the London Bridge attacks, you and i so many different elements of jurisprudence. You seem to be alleging by the end of the book that theres a kind of totalitarian conditioning amongst the public about what justice is. And thats why we have the crimes of the Justice System to continue. I think i think its a cultural rather than a totalitarian mindset and we in certainly the English Speaking world in britain and the us in particular. Yes, there has been these various on drawing tools, punishment as being the aim of the system, as opposed to what most people might think the point of the system is which he said reduce the amount of crime. And theres a conflict between those 2 things. If the morning punishing a reader, tony in way on the principle of physical chastisement, the Death Penalty, all very lonely for tony in prison sentences, the more crime you get, what the public thinks, which is to quote unquote punish criminals. A crackdown is actually the thing that results in more crime. In our society. You say prison does not work every single day of every single prison sentence makes a society poor. Im going to just quickly and briefly ask you about the effect of coronavirus on defendant. Maybe your chambers of your colleagues chambers. How worried are you about coronavirus and british presence . Its a really serious problem on 2 fronts. One of coles is that the faction rates in prison, and that been these big outbreaks in certain institutions, but more widely. And as i say, our speech spoken suppliers just in the last couple of days who are Via Video Conferencing in prison. And they are telling me of the, of the detroit or a Mental Health crisis thats developing because they are being locked up. They are there, the education process in prison is now being closed. They are not out any visitors. And can you imagine that sitting in a cell as they often office flinty 2 or 23 hours a day with nothing to do . No way to go . No Natural Light and not even allowed to visit us because anybody from the outside world and i spoke to tom friday, he said hed been in this condition for now for since the beginning of march. So its about 8 or 9 months. Even fictive solitary confinement, and so we are, you know, growth of ours is having a massive impact on people in prison. And you know, you, the public can say, well too bad, they deserve it. But those people in prison are going to come out and they get a mule, the streets, either in a month or year or in 10 years. And the more you damage them on the inside, the more damage they will do to us when they come out. Crystal, casey, thank you. After the break with new u. S. Sanctions to come into force against cuba, what example is washington still so afraid of. And what lessons can new liberal countries like britain, which has transferred billions into private corporations to learn from a country with fewer than 200. 00 dead. And that spurns competition for cooperation in the fight against coronavirus, all the small coming up about to have going underground. Welcome back. Britain has chosen the new labor tory part of privatized city, consultancies to help fight coronavirus now has the worst death toll in europe. This while its closest military ally, the usa with nearly as high def, a capita rate as the u. K. Chooses to wage economic war on the island of cuba. What is washington afraid of that cuba has fewer than 200 dead from coated. Joining me from glasgow is dr. Helen, u. F. A. Who appears in the new documentary, cuba and coven, 1000 Public Health science and solidarity. Helen, thanks so much for going back on to tell me how a documentary can even be made, let alone the fact that its producing vaccines because everyone in britain is focused on the scandal hit Pfizer Company as our greatest hope. Wow. When we talk and she, at that point she had one child on its time, we showed the documentary that cubans now have free cancer that vaccines are on trial and 2 of them are already wealthy. Powerful. And im saying is just incredible when you think, you know that this is a small island nation and thats has its subjects to do 60 years of science. I mean facts and terrible time of carbon. If you thought it was hit by own frost 14 you measure and sanctions are the trumpet. Ministrations that is, its really incredible. We had the convention and its firing to see, you know, why and yet still says, lets say all the bunch of really saving lives. And livelihoods, you know what americans watching, this will say its a dictatorship. All those brigades, the henry review brigades, we saw pictures of in italy trying to save the lives of italians. Theyre actually human trafficked doctors and nurses. Hey, you kind of answer that in the documentary, tell me about how that may not be right now when we were really not he to be had was in one of the 50 free medical specialists who sued not only where the wealthy ecus said all of the Global Pandemic back in late march and, and, and, and, you know, he dont see that accusation. He said, all right. I am slight, you know, i made my own decision that he explained his own journey in relation to and placed it on me hard every night. And the cuban medics, while i and you know, asked if they wanted to go on a system where literally sitting in the attic will someone pile 500 hats ready to record. And you know, he and i want to study these trials. And you know, last christmas i opportunities to impress as they were night lights. Laurie could save president bush at that period. I dont just ignore you and you know he did, this is his own patient and you many found out that you really felt that he and i hadnt started to help patients. Ok, well if you watch this documentary, maybe all learn different, but if you look at socalled, Mainstream Media, theyre talking about fines or about hastert zeneca, both big pharma multinationals and covert and why do you think we dont hear about the drugs mentioned in the documentary and just fins, all these different treatments, let alone the fact that the revolution itself was, was, was key. One of his key objectives was biotech. The key run by a tech set is quite unique. The way it was founded very early on in the dependent of our state on a g. As a field. And it was found in 9081. So that was after. And he said, can i say it, said 5 in the United States and the situation because this is the corner me the session its going to make, is it 100 percent safe talent and all of the different institutions that western science and if it how, which is in heaven now, walker, i dont compete, they dont seek to thank for it all that the best production and the whole industry set up to meet Public Health, all the population is a credible inspiration. Mean, the sector between the Public Health concepts hat and the education sector. So he is, that is a model that essentially minds based as you think this mainstream. This also says only the free market, only in profit through competition, how we have efficient outcomes. Now i would say that this response is that weve seen in countries around, well, its kind of it that it is kind of its own whos a values and principles on which each side is organized and it has all the time why its us to question the meaning of the fish, when you know we have a Public Health, how hoping that either the speculative race or profits because even if there is an absolute vaccines that was made in many pressure, to be honest. How will all Companies Access is and at what cost will it crop they ship to be able to access the fact that they need to save lives for the cubans . Because of the u. S. Blockade, its been 5 to be important, but then what will their own facts . I mean we saw that with the announcement about the trials of a 5 for child. The share price is you know, immediately respond and you know, you have to wonder what i think is priced and what size that it is. Also a tribute to him will suffer as a great deal of work, right. And it is, henry really has been taking some of our thoughts. All that, you know, has been an event that he took to credit for credit lines even using the more of a while. And i wouldnt think expect them to rate be a great deal more racial after this. And then with human medicine, all im really showing some promise is even at a new british joint venture thats up to the potential. I will preventing that in critically ill and seriously ill patients of president and yet, have there isnt he, in the documentary, theres a u. C. L. , lincoln university, college london. Are these good colleges not afraid of us, 3rd Party Sanctions if they cooperate on Health Care Development with cuba . The issue of us sentients is a difficult one. Never is. And you cant legislate ation that makes it illegal for the u. S. Mckay to be in full state and, and individuals and companies interests. And im the same applies to your question. Why that legislation is at risk. Thats the issue at the collaboration mice with you see out of the states and they may write one of the hack ventilates as humans how and why a copy. They all said and used to create these machines that was fundraised through in recent court battles, you can see the u. K. And, but you know, even for that as a Fundraising Campaign to save lives, they have to be very careful about which plan they use. And how they said, can they share the information because money, right . Or, you know, if you can examine the cultural events issues has a whole event. Right. All right, well i hate how and of course, the u. S. Ok poppy. I want to get on in a moment here. Why . Why washington is so seemingly afraid of the cuban he examined, but i dont know whether you noticed, but independence age is a committee advising which is named after the committee advising bars on to the government. I dont know whether you think they sound like dr. Che guevara, because in the documentary, its clear that there are echoes of what independent sages saying here that it is localized n. H. S. Health care. That is the way forward to combating coronavirus as opposed to morris johnsons, a 12000000000 pound commission. To dido arding hand these big city financial consultancies. What he, what do you make of this difference about why britain has 50000 dead and humor only 850 people have less than 150. I think trying to make that the is essential tool in a way that, you know, its all contagion and is the family health. And to say that these are, the family has existed in every community that he has the highest ratio of doctors past and present. He states Promised Land from many doctors in my community. They live among my patients, even the docs, its not my family or not the fact that you think so help is available and people are out there have a system where they categorize the house. They took all of that community so they immediately know if a disease, psychiatry comes along that affects people or for spiritual problems. They immediately might agree with the former patients. And the most incredible elements of their response to present time teaching has being to carry on and increase the process in any way which is going to every home in that community. And theyve been assisted by 28000 medical students. The course can carry on their studies at the university. Its funny and i went to whole every day. So they were entities. Are they not 100 souls . And they are asked everyone in the house how, you know, how they were feeling. And they were basically tracking down when they had a suspected case, instead of leaving them in the community, they were ordered taken to a medical facility or an Isolation Center where they test supervised foreman in these isolation sets. Wait, now they call them isolation taking place at home. But they were also doing Contract Tracing at a very secret not just text message is turning out of peoples souls, preventing anyone who had been a concern. They have been tested really seriously. And this is a harley approach and how has this, which is credential over at your and having this at all . How many wells, how ironic that seems to be the system pioneered by jon snow in london with color hundreds of years ago. And what do you make then . Finally of the allegations in the documentary that washington has weaponized coronavirus, a complete contravention to what you meant. 2nd general antonio terrorism said, and how many people do you think the United States defacto killed in bolivia by forcing them to remove cubas International Brigades . Well, the residents say it is to the pressure that was pressed on the government site that century it was brazil for libya and critical to and a spell, the cuban doctors who, while king in those countries, and that happened to full, the coronavirus pandemic hit those countries so that on trees had and you know, weak health, Public Health infrastructure as and without the, the systems of the cuban medics. And when youre hit with that pandemic of highly infectious, the very high death rate. I mean that the result was the songstress and what happened was that the cubans have only met for that. But in the context of a pandemic, they started to send these 10, we read a, its to countries, it was the response of the trump administration. And in order to undermine press t. V. At this point to you, because this was an actual thing, you know, it was, you know, literally it did of trying to help Public Health in other countries. It was, i was trying to ministration huge. You book Human Trafficking saying that these had not slaves and also incredible pressure on, but recipient countries. So find this crazy government home except thing exists that the signed thank lives their own country. Well, bolivias government is changing by the brazilian ecuadorian ambassadors on the ground. They have a thank you thats over the show will be back on wednesday, 27 years of the day, so called us president elect. Joe biden stood up in the senate and argued for what he referred to as the biden crime bill. The bill, which critics say led to the United States having the highest incarceration rate in the world until then. You can join the underground of following up on you tube twitter, facebook, instagram. Sam, join me every thursday on the alex salmond show. And ill be speaking to guests of the world of politics. Sports business, im show business. Ill see you then a new gold rush is underway in gonna thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields, hoping to strike it. Rich is a good. As they were children, a tool in between gold, my family was very poor. I thought i was doing my best to get back to school. Which side will have the strongest appeal. Most counties, the peacekeeping mission in a corner care about hope to brokering a ceasefire between armenia and azerbaijan. Our correspondent heads to the full of front line in the region where russian, puss now, will be staged. Meanwhile, displaced on to the new deal hominy and forced out of the areas now on to the control of azerbaijan, tad down and towards that home. They say they dont want to leave the what they see as the enemy. We had a good life and now we are tearing down the houses weve built up. So i know one thing for sure. I wouldnt even want my any me to find himself in a situation like this. It is very hard because we do not have any other choice