Again in about an hour with another look this is our to International Stay with us. Welcome to visionaries. Has forced the world to embark on a remote work experiment is it merely a task. Or are a new reality will it transform working life as we know it by lets find out. Workplace analytics. Kate lister president of Global Workplace analytics great to have you with us today. Here now with the pandemic Remote Working is finally mainstream but how long will this effect last i mean will telecommuting lose momentum up to were done with a virus. I really dont think so i think weve reached a Tipping Point already about 6 percent of the population and this is just going to throw it over you know youre Hearing Company after company that says theyre going to continue this after the pandemic the big thing that changed is that managers are no longer afraid of it thats the thing thats been holding back remote were since the 1970 s. When they were telework was invented now that theyve done it they understand that its possible and that they can manage people remotely but im thinking for instance in assess it is forcing companies to tell their employees to stay home like you sat on the market like we have many different kinds of companies lets say a socalled start up would probably have no trouble doing work remotely but then you have like and sion Traditional Companies like i. B. M. Or 18 t. Or something where you have this you know history of hierarchy showing up for work etc will these giants have trouble operating as efficiently as they were with you know people working from home. Were were seeing it across industry and across size of company in across age of company and even c. E. O. s are making statements that they surprise themselves that theyve been converted you know not everybody not every organization is going to have a huge percentage of their employees working remotely and i think its important to say that its not likely to be a full time thing meet the sweet spot is 2 to 3 days a week and thats been true you know as long as i have been doing this for for almost 20 years i mean its going to be some people that are fully remote but you know i dont think these Large Companies are suddenly going to give up all the real estate and the fact is we do individual work and we do teamwork and what weve learned from a pandemic is really we can actually function just as well remotely in time work but we dont like it as much we want to act yeah were going to talk in detail about that because thats of course like they that the main point of why people are being a little wary about working remotely but let me ask you this working from home is such a dream for so many of us what i mean for me im loving it for the past 6 months im doing it remotely yet before disaster struck it wasnt really the default path for majority of businesses right well what is it about Remote Working that is scary to those who run companies have this fear is being overweight by the theory of cobbett now. It traditionally has been that managers simply dont trust their employees i mean thats the honest truth that they theyre used to managing by but since its you know the back of somebodys head rather than managing by results which is something that weve known since the 1950 s. Is the way people prefer to be managed and maximizes their both satisfaction and their productivity. So now that managers have done it themselves they see that it does work and weve seen that has starkly in the research once a manager does it and i thought oh ok i get it but i think the other big thing thats going to change here is that this has become a see sweet conversation theyve seen that wow you know maybe we dont need all this real estate maybe there is a different way to function and maybe thats managing by results thing is a good thing yes it is a good thing. And with the you know potential economic downturn coming then were tension is going to be put on those reducing those fixed costs like real estate. And risk managers and investors are showing you know voting with their feet that they want to have companies that are resilient not only resilient but also sustainable. Well. That would be you know a thought that i mean youre probably talking from from someone whos seen research on right but for those who havent thought i hear often about telecommuting is that it doesnt just doesnt provide the same fruitful working environment as the office and what i mean is they take jad so anxious to get other proverbial water cooler conversations pantone is discussions you know for work matters and inside that appear out of a free from socializing is working remotely not bad at all for collective creativity and overall productivity at the workplace doesnt affect it at all. For productivity the research has shown over the last 15 years that it increases productivity and 2 big reasons is reduced interruptions we did a survey just about a month into the pandemic and found that people said they lost 35 minutes a day less to unwanted interruptions at home which was kind of a surprise because you know with all the things that are going on at home right now this is not the best of times to be to be doing it. And so thats one element the other element is they tend to give back 50 percent of the time that they would have otherwise spent commuting. So you know those 2 factors have have forever increased the productivity also makes people more loyal theyre able to work when theyre maybe not feeling well you the man might have otherwise called in sick but if they can work at home theyre there theyre happy to. On the issue of collaboration you theres always been this this idea that you cant collaborate virtually well im sorry but were Global Economy so regardless of whether you call it telecommuting we are collaborating version. Fact is people want to do it in person so this survey that we did show that theyre just as productive in teamwork working remotely but theyre not as satisfied so they were that human contact you know they know that they want that face to face but there are all Virtual Companies that dont have any of that and how they replace it is through virtual communication but also by getting together physically maybe once or twice a year and it turns out that it doesnt take much to me taint those trust bonce and those social networks and one of the things they found is that gaming just gaming for 10 minutes together with your colleagues is something that creates and maintains those social bonds. But you know that mix is better im not advocating for all remote because really you dont reap some people like to be together with other people and thats important. But so youre saying a lot of its going to be done remotely for the most part and lake with sad experience shows that issues can be solved in messengers and zoom. How can this convenient but in a way in fact imperfect tools fully make up for a lack of communication with our colleagues i mean are they going to be perfected in a way that you know we dont even feel the need anymore to have the face to face contact with our colleagues. Yeah i mean look at how quickly soon backgrounds came on the scene you know Silicon Valley is already looking at this and how do we improve it there is a new technology coming out that allows us to be sitting in the same room so that you know we feel were together you know were never going to have a 3 dimensional dementia ality well i shouldnt say that maybe with holmgrens we will but you know its not going to replace it but theres times and i think this is something that leadership is realizing right now that good enough is good enough so you know and then sending somebody across the world on an airplane or across the city to have a meeting meeting like this is good enough. And i think that thats what were going to learn coming out of this is that theres a time to use technology and that we can improve productivity by relying on technology and theres times that we we do want to face to face and we have to find that that you know that cooperation that that that point in between where it works best and by the way its going to work different for every Company Every team every individual so you know its a matter of what works for me so should companies right now be investing in Virtual Reality software now instead of offices downtown. I dont think its there yet i think were getting close i think that that will become a norm its already being used in in a lot of industries for things lake walk through is of facilities. So you know this is going to it is so many ways the pandemic has not created new technologies or new new. Norms but isnt excel aerated them so we were already working remotely now were working remotely more we were already working on Virtual Technology now were really working on it. And i wonder if this work remotely regards all professions was no exception because for instance me i make my money by interviewing people and that that entices me and you talking face to face and of course its better when you are face to face in person dissing someone like me an interviewer can hope to have its profession transformed to a point where i will never see a face to face like all my entries will be like this in the future i absolutely think so and you and i would have never met you know you would have seen me across the across the world you know you wouldnt have come to me. So you know if the other its making possible connections that would not otherwise been possible. So theres you know theres talk about its going to reduce the serendipity encounters and you know thats not good for innovation well in fact theres evidence to show that it actually increases the your network we can be global we can talk to anybody anywhere so you know i think we have to stop looking at how do we replicate old norms and start thinking about how do we use technology to do things better and we have in the past people talk about the watercooler my husband has a line we try to get better and better we should work harder and harder to get better and better at something we shouldnt be doing it all so you know was was the watercooler not going to thing and is there a different way to collaborate that in fact is more inclusive you know that doesnt leave the interviewer out of the conversation. Thats what my hope is that Going Forward thats what well learn from this but also. The argument that people have in favor of you know face to face work is that its going to become more rarer but its going to become more expensive and more exclusive and that everyones going to strive to have that do you agree with that that face to face contact in any field whether its journalism or a corporation this is going to be a luxury but its going to be something that people will strive for. I think its going to be a long term a long time before we get to that point i mean i think theres going to be this huge rush back to the office and his need for face to face and its really hard to separate whats going on with the pandemic and whats going on with remote work you know our our we are restarting for connection because you know we cant even go to a store. You know why people dont do period of getting over that and getting away from the kids and getting away from the spouse. But you know i think that we will settle into a pace where people work where they are best where they do their best work for whatever it is theyre doing and you know one day that may mean getting together in person and another day that may mean working remotely but i think that stigma has gone away now. People realize that working at home is not does not mean sitting on the sofa and eating bon bons ok were going to take a short break right now while were back well continue talking to cable esther the president of Global Workplace analytics talking about how the president has changed our work ethic. Nuclear become a battleground in the u. S. People of demanding the shut down of a local plant from yankee is right now my focus because its a very dangerous oh no clare power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limits this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on wheres the power in this country wheres it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy is or power with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in the very real. Struggle. Seemed wrong. All. That yet to shape out is they become educated and engaged equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart. She still look for common ground. And were back with kate lister president of Global Workplace analytics kate do you think women working will become an option for every employee someday. Warehousing manufacturing distribution you know there are a lot of industries that we just are not compatible you know there may be something compatible in each job maybe one day a week or maybe one day a month or Something Like that i think as robotics and automation take hold many of those jobs will be able to be done remotely but you know there will always be people that you know drivers will maybe not even drivers should be able to get a drive from your from your living room this this this vehicle but you know it certainly is a office based knowledge worker that is most suited to remote work and i think that its important for organizations to. Create an environment and a culture of flexibility that goes beyond remote work if people are desperate for some control over there is a over there in life you need to go back to saturday youve got errands youve got you know this to do and not to do in but if you like a saturday because youre in control of that youre in control of when you do those things and how you do those things and thats what we want in our in our work lives maybe even offering flexibility increases Employee Satisfaction even if they dont use it its just having that little bit of control over your schedule and autonomy ok. I mean also there are concerns step remote employees can end up being discriminated against in terms of pay and bonuses and promotion prospects as compared to their office based colleagues and i wonder why the fears are even there but why should some remotes you know a Sales Manager be paid last save pay sales are just as good as those in the on the office bound the college yeah its been a fear its always been a fear that the media talks about everything weve done in terms of. Surveys over the years and even recently and shown that its a minor. Concern for employees 20 percent of the population says that theyre concerned about it. But nobody is very concerned about it i shouldnt say nobody but a very very small percentage is very concerned about it one of the things that remote work does is as we talked about is forced people to manage my results and like you say if you make the same sales when youre sitting in it the desk in the office and youre at home thats managing by results and we can reach an all have those kinds of goals that it actually increases the fairness in those Salary Decisions and news promotion decisions because you know it evens the Playing Field if were all being managed by results theres no you know employee or the guy that comes in at 6 oclock in the morning and doesnt leave till 6 oclock at night you know it looks like the the most productive guy there when in fact. We dont know what hes doing if you think about that the fact that amazon shopping peak hours are during working hours. It doesnt it doesnt say much about being able to ensure that people are productive even when theyre at the office. Their rise of work will also lead to an more homebound life right it could change the whole landscape of how cities look right now our whole thing is a build around the idea that people wake up at home in one place and commute to work and another like we have city in london where nobody lives but people come in droves during the day for instance and so many big mega policies are built that way well the idea of central hub of a city where everyone goes to work thus making it a center to sort of die out. I dont think its going to die out it is going to be different and were already seeing an outpouring from cities to suburbs enteral areas some of the real estate platforms have seen a 100 percent increase or a 1000 percent increase in people looking for suburban properties and Rural Properties you once theyve been told that theyre going to work at home forever they want to get out of the city this is also coincident that was already happening this is also coincident with the you know any else now having families so that exodus from the city was already starting to happen but cities are going to be hurt by this and all of the not just the offices but all of the the ancillary businesses that support them while i was there they were empty offices mean knowing they lunches no happy hours no you know need for a cleaning crew maintenance or anything they just putting in all of those and still did things in the Service Sector will suffer because of this oh absolutely i mean theyre you know i think theyll be a period of adjustment but i think that some of that office excess office space could be repurposed to make for housing more affordable. Its going to require some reasoning but theres already examples of this in areas throughout the world where theyve done it really have converted those spaces where theyve converted malls to housing so i think theres an opportunity to repurpose the biggest reason people dont go downtown is because of the traffic getting there and getting out of there and i live in san diego and you know my husband and i used to go down to the city which was a 20 minute drive to go to a play or to walk along the harbor or whatever but we stopped doing that 15 years ago because you just never know how long its going to take to get down there and how long its going to take to get back out so i think that cities can can become return to being places of cultural connection and. Restaurants and night life and those kinds of things. But there is going to be a period of transition its going to be hard but also im thinking if more people a switched to or pro and probably choose suburbs over the big city how likely is it that they will actually help growth of some kind of local business restaurant exactly why or not you know its i agree you know one ones going to lose the other is going to gain by the vision there are other people talking about kind of a hub in a spoke model so the being the Center Downtown office which is now smaller and then places throughout the suburbs where if you want to drop in for a day or you want to go to work 2 days a week and you want to have access to you know the big Conference Room room or to see your colleagues or whatever youll be able to do it in these regional spaces and i dont think that those are necessarily going to be company you know and i think that were going to look to the coworking model and thats going to be transformed into Something Like a cooperated fully owned. And or spoke i should say. Were collaborate it with places or maybe even independently owned as in the coworking model so i think that whole the whole model is going to change and suburban real estate commercial real estate has has been in trouble for years so you know this is a pendulum its going to swing the rate you know its going to swing toward the suburbs so was that happened to us it is like new York San Francisco i mean with bright minds always working from home now moving to cheaper cities with what do you think will happen to direction or ones in iraq will they finally become affordable to live in again who for most of us. Yeah i think theyll become more accessible you know in terms of those haves and have nots the people that you can work remotely and can work remotely i think the benefit of reduce traffic will benefit the people that fact have to go to the cities to work and potentially as we said give them the. Less costly plates to to live. Ok you know some say that work from home helps maintain better Work Life Balance others claim the opposite saying that you know their working schedule has become increasingly blurred forcing them to actually be functional basically 247 while some say that their productivity and creativity got a boost in the confort of their homes either actually misses very much the same person cob aeration with colleagues. You actually mentioned it earlier on so what work isnt the Promised Land for everyone how will this 2 approaches balance themselves in the coming years. Its important that employers dont force people that dont want to work remotely you know they you have to give People Choice there are some people that dont have a suitable home area and one of the things that we found out in our survey and others have have revealed since is that its the younger generations that are having more difficulty at home right now because they probably live in smaller places they may be sharing with a roommate they may be you know living with their parents and so you know thats part of the difficulty but you know some people weve got to recognize that some people are going to want to continue to go to the office and you know Everybody Loves to make this conversation polar youre either all in or youre all out and it just isnt its you know its its that hybrid its that middle ground. And you know i think that as Technology Improves and as jobs become more. Automated that more and more people will have the option to do this and hopefully the option to to also go to the office and socialize theres also some conversation that goes along the lines of. Over the past decade weve stopped socializing with friends and our you know more commonly you know people we know are people at work so maybe this thats going to slip to you know ive got you know a number of neighbors because im walking more. And you know maybe thats going to these these communities are going to become tighter and closer. All right kate its been a pleasure talking to you thanks for all your far casts and good luck with everything and hope i can get to this maybe like in one years time so we can rake up on everything we spoke about and see what actually came true and what did a. Very great all right thanks a lot and had a great day thank you. But there are. More behind the word if you give us a. Shot of our good. Service is that you. Just fitted the mothership did. You see my mother as we moved. To nominate you for years you know not just because. They are the house of. God since were. Going to be the only. This kid who are. Coming through the system distance in. The midst of the news to. Join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business im showbusiness ill see you then. A grandmother doing a life for murder was released from prison yesterday after 17 years when i judge said she did not do it susan mellon recently filed a lawsuit against the detective who arrested her for hiding evidence that detectives the same one who arrested reggie
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