Are the enemy is there a way out of this downward spiral. Cross talking about america im joined by my guest roy riley tromping in dayton she is an attorney conservative commentator as well as contributor at the hill and in washington we cross to show cross she is in a crowded strategist and a political analyst right cross talk rose in fact that means you can jump anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let me go to rory and dayton and preparing for this program about that the divide in american politics. It came to my mind that before the American Civil War we said the american the United States are and after the civil war he said the United States is because in the end its very its a very interesting us. There is a difference because when we look at it as a collective of states maybe a country and now after the civil war we look at it is unified here and it seems to me were. Digressing back because its the United States are now because of all of the divisions that we have and we have this mantra of blues daves red states and as i said in my introduction theres a lot of hostility to it to people that you deem as your opponent how do you reflect upon that well im glad that you brought up the civil war because as we talk about how polarized things are and how much we point to people as the enemy i think thats important Historical Context to bring up when people talk about this being unprecedented its not really any in this country didnt fact have a civil war 170 years ago which in the grand scheme of history is not that long of a period of time so i think that period is really instructive and the semantic difference that you brought out between seeing is in our unfortunately weve seen throughout history i was a history major in college so i love. I love history and i like to learn from history i wish perhaps one of our citizens felt the same way but when you when you look at that is how were going back to that we can weigh now throughout periods of history in terms of whether we go through these periods that are more partisan less partisan and i think that this is kind of a natural progression of just building up lots of things that have happened since the civil war so i think that its unfortunate and i think its something that i wish perhaps maybe more people were paying attention to this is a topic that comes up repeatedly is that somebody who holds an opposing view from you doesnt necessarily have to be your moral enemy but as part of that weve seen civil discourse has been waning when i you know i just referenced that throughout history we see some of these concepts wax and wane. Last one its waning and its another thing that i think that people need to pay more attention to you know just because you hold a particular belief doesnt necessarily make it universal truth and we can as much as some people dont want to admit it we can learn from people who hold those absolutely and thats a thats my experience in media is i learn more from people that i disagree with and it sharpens my wit and my argument and i think it does for them as well you know this kind of statement this kind of discourse a problem that we have in our our discourse because. You know the asleep during a campaign its very boisterous and people like some. Hyperbole and they and they have this tendency of using superlatives but you know i really bothers me when what i hear you know youre a bolshevik youre a communist youre a fascist you know that that those are hard words to take back ok and and i and i really worry about that and in boltons this been hearing is that people have theres a lot of bitterness across the country and its and its not one single party i think i really lament that we could we cant just come together and say we we have a lot of bitterness and maybe we can use that anger in that presentation to actually open be honest and look at your opponent in an honest way and say i understand why youre frustrated can you understand why im frustrated thats the part of the conversation that is not happening in american politics go ahead i dont have to agree with you but i also think that we are in a very different mind frame in america much fewer is seen this close over the year so i am always cautious to say that now weve seen the most vitriolic or the most arcs and that bite is absolutely not correct but in the admin at c. B. S. Social media and its like that that might actually like lend itself because the or you know they were generation we solved. Really extreme. Partisanship but today i think that you know the cable news the cable news cycle the 24 sevenths news cycle has helped to bolster this because the more outrage the war in city of the late wage the more aggressive the war you know click share and viewership these networks get so i think there is something that comes out of that point about bolsheviks and communists and that name calling that we see throughout campaigns i think that part of that is done largely because the tour American Public what the course of this war we were just doing man on the street right now across america were not going to find too many people who fully understand those terms i think that what we see now is a group of people on both sides but i will play on the republicans here a president who tweets these derogatory and Strong Language all the time in a way that we havent necessarily seen come from president s before partisan carty politics weve seen time and time again there is typically a structure for the presidency that we have seen take it or are turned away from and i think thats also shaping the nation when it comes to how flowing people are with this type of like yeah but you know you know i dont know i didnt dig agree with you but you know i thought that you know if youre so if you have such a disparaging view about rhetoric why does the left participate in it on steroids ok its not helping it its making it worse for rory you know im glad i brought up the civil war because the civil war was an insubstantial threats to that country ok and we have both a political language now that talks about and sends them to a brets you know that the civil war happened for a reason and civil breakdown may happen in the us a reason in war watching it with their own eyes the problem is that both sides see the other is an existential threat its not like we win with it then thats a tradition in american politics we all can win somehow but what im going to situation is that no i mean in you lose i win and you were a bank with snow and a lot of republicans very few. Very threatened by some of the ideas that are coming out of the left not particularly from the by name went on in the Democratic Party and in elements of the progressive wing of the party which i dont actually personally like nothing to progressive because ive learned more really speak to this existential broke bread fear so i think that this ties in with the comment that he said just made about how cable news and social media are driving a lot of this a think in the past when weve had these periods of division we had more access to direct conversations with people that we can learn from like you were just referencing and now its much easier to find yourself in an echo chamber and i recently watched a documentary on netflix the social dilemma which talked about how basically people are shown content based on what they view that pushes them further intruder down at a particular rabbit hole on certain concepts and rather than saying you know you watch this now for an opposing view im going to watch this its just it hardens viewpoints and i dont think that thats helpful so i certainly think that theres a greater conversation about this existential threat that has to do with both our cable news using habits and our social media habits and people arent directly communicating the way they think they have in previous generations i think thats a big part of it and we hear the phrase keyboard warriors a lot when you talk about these neutrality conversations that youve been referencing or we view other people as the enemy so much of those conversations take place behind a screen a lot of those conversations probably would not take place if you were sitting face to face with someone and asking them questions about their their particular viewpoints now of course we have seen some unfortunate events in person as well that have stemmed from nice social media interactions with some of the protests and things of various nature that weve had recently so thats something that i think we need to get a handle on but again i think when you. Talk about this existential threat we cant talk about that in a vacuum we have to talk about the role that media and social media in particular plays in trying to bring those to. You know a mission when it went to a lot of conservatives and members of the g o p are very critical of the liberal media and what they can do seo. Merits over the protests because you know there are look theres a lot of misery associated theres a lot of misery associated with the lockdowns all across the country but protest that there is a certain political advantage been there allowed to happen but other people are or are ashamed in public over social distancing and all that how do you address that because as a conservative here you know thats thats hypocrisy i mean you have a lockdown for Health Reasons you dont make exceptions because those exceptions are against. The of the better. Health of the of the community here i mean how do you address them well 1st and foremost i think that you know its important some of the guidelines in her round checking ourselves coronavirus i will say that when conservatives throw out the protests that africanamericans and supporters of that kind of americans who are out here in the streets protesting for their civil rights and Civil Liberties specifically the right should not be chilled by the whole leave without having a level of arm on you i think that that is a very important march and. If you give me a minute then youre saying you have to suspend those rules and that about social welfare i mean that you know making that exception there if you make an exception for political reasons not for Health Reasons and i think that theres a lot of people that have a good reason to complain about now people complain about whatever they want i think youre twisting my words here what im saying is that the real history may have seen minority rights be trampled on now yet there are more Police Officers who decided not to shoot unarmed black mean it when im outside of corona virus and then yes. Yes wouldnt happen during coronavirus but we see video after video and i think that it would be disingenuous or these africanamericans people who look like me not take the streets not to get that edge in the Election Year what this is one of the things that people are voting on were talking about Police Reports you cannot say that anyone has something to do with science right it has everything to do with the health risks that are associated with just being an africanamerican its all politics its politics it is not every day like i cant make all of my black eyes so that wasnt you having if you were an africanamerican being pulled over by the cops are very hot they are sick theyre going. Up what examples are you like i are. Not what im saying is that africanamericans have been at risk in this country for generations and have always stood up and protested this is not. You can at all you suspend science for politics thats what youre saying to me you know what im saying is that black people are respected around the virus we already know that those levels are extremely high what im saying is that black people are also it risk when it comes to their interactions with Police Officers those are 2 risks that happen see right now be happening at the exact same time i dont think that one is more detrimental than the other i think that there are africanamericans who have been dying as a Police Officer generation and quite frankly we have a lot to tell me about how theyre going to get harmed black men were killed last year in america but police start how many armed black men were killed by its not just on our black men its also told us because i have to going to one heartbreak aaron i think well continue our discussion about you know im going to be 98 with our to. L. Look forward to talking to you all. That technology should work for people. I robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about official intelligence and the point over you see is to create trusts of the shia. Conflicts going on various shots in with Artificial Intelligence will summon the demon. The robot must protect its own existence as. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe from. Isolation or community. Are you going the right way or are you being led so. Direct. What is truly wants is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Or unmaidenly shallowness. Welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing a divided america. Ok lets go back to number. 3 and date and you know lets talk about this fear element in the election ok weve talked about the pay and make here. How does this undermine the legit is legitimacy in the faith in the political process here and we can throw in a new support go Supreme Court justice as well to add into the mix year i mean do you think both parties in the media are playing upon fear for political advantage because it seems quite obvious to me. I think that both parties have long played on peoples fears or political advantage i mean if you watch what it all adds you know going back 4050 years we see the same thing when there was a similar social unrest in the sixtys i mean nixons law and Order Campaign was all about preying on peoples fears and so thats not a new dynamic and i think that with regards to what were seeing right now we certainly see that law and order element obviously theres a touch of irony in some of that being seen on the right but there is on the left as well about their sphere about if donald trump is given another 4 years as president what are we going to see in this country so i think yes we are seeing people who have legitimate fears on both sides but again both parties have exploited fear i dont necessarily think one party has the moral high ground on this issue of exploiting fear so it would be great if people were more at using their own Critical Thinking as opposed to just succumbing to these fears but fear is a powerful motivator it always has been and if it didnt work i dont think wed see people on both sides continuing to use it in their political ads. To funding the police designed create fear in your mind for citizens well i think that thats definitely something the president probably the Republican Party are hoping for but weve heard a certain segment of the protest but not all protesters that definitely not like lives matter large is 80 and the Police Statement what i know and what has been researched about even the police is that if they. It has been going on since that day throughout lots of what we saw with the war on drugs what we saw with the war on terror and even the police doesnt mean what republicans are going around telling people it does the public and it even goes on as long meant making sure that the budgets of state and local governments goal toward helping those who are most often interact with by the police so whether that is the Homeless Population or those in need actors who programs those who need mental help assistance it means moving some monies away and funding things that actually will help these individuals other than excessive policing because what we do know is that there are Police Across this country my father is a Police Officer there are Police Officers across this country who are doing things outside of their job they are being called to take care of Mental Health cases theyre not Mental Health professionals they are being called to take home a situation they are not in the in the be made up taking care hours and thats not what they are trained to do so when you have officers who are doing more often times things that have nothing to do with criminality at all and theyre not trained to theyre not specialized in it all that does is cause further problems what we also know is that state and local budgets are not meaning that as much as weve seen there be extra bloat. How much Police Officers monopolys office but policing into teams getting their budgets that means that youre automatically cutting Something Else the 1st thing to get cut are afterschool programs Mental Health Centers Clinics for the poor and homeless shelters and programs like that what were seeing and what theyre saying with the police is not the same as eradicating Police Funding what it needs what weve seen in context is that just 10 percent of Police Funding going towards homelessness going towards Mental Health going towards afterschool programs can solve and reduce a lot of the crime that we do see and start communities across the country thats what theyre asking here werent you can we have the case of minneapolis where they actually did to fund the police and crime so are ok and then you had members of the public complaining to their elected officials that crime is soaring. There are the police and this is what you have one of what we just heard from i mean i agree with a lot of it here i think the police are asked to do things that theyre not theyre not equipped to do theyre not educated to do i agree with that completely here but you know theyre part of the the the rhetoric of the phone the police is the are is the police are the enemy which i dont have any tolans for there is there i dont know the number of Police Officers that have died this year but its up very very high because of all of these protests and violence here so. Quick to speak to that there i mean this is a political cudgel from the police and i think the media gave us a very very nuanced explanation what it is but thats not how its being used in this campaign or well theres certainly an element of irony with what we saw in minneapolis in terms of how this issue was approached and im glad that you just used the word nuance to describe mrs response because that was actually what i was getting prepared to say is this is a complex topic in it requires want solutions and i think we often see this our government is a lot more reactive than it is proactive so we need to have more nuanced conversations about what defunding the police means i mean i personally feel like Government Spending in a lot of areas is out of control i would love to have a more nuanced conversation about reining some of that in particular areas and if the police is one of those absolutely but it cant just be the pendulum swings this way now its long this way because as we saw in minneapolis thats not effective so we need to take a harder look at this budget and say what are we funding what are the results that weve seen and if were not seeing the results which in many places arguably we are not how can this money be better spent obviously this is intertwined with a lot of Mental Health topics other social issues and we talk a lot about the social determinants of health in the big picture of how we can get people to a place where they dont necessarily need to call. Police so again i go back to that nuance that you use because its not something that are. Tend to get more support from the public when they speak in these broad generalities than things that invoke emotions like fear is we just discussed and thats not most effective in terms its effective in terms of campaigning its not effective in terms of good policy choices and governing so just back to that i think we need to have a more serious conversation in this country not just in minneapolis really across the country in the solution is going to look different in different places and i think that we have to acknowledge that too in a small town what the Police Budget can handle and what they do is going to look very different than it is in a major metropolitan area like new york or los angeles so those conversations are nuanced for a reason and its not a one size fits all solution and so lets get serious about that lets put some policy commissions the place i mean you know again going back to history i talk about the Current Commission quite frequently back in the sixtys and perhaps you know we had implemented some of the solutions that the Current Commission had recommended but l. B. J. Wanted to fund the enough of this ties into another topic Government Spending out of control we see that a lot on the t. O. D. In the military side all of these things kind of fit together so why do you just let it all do it im going to probably inadvertently agree with the mission make her happy is that you know because we dont have a real discussion about health care in america is tied in also to whats going on with what the police should and shouldnt be doing here so i have to put their list change gears here i mean how much what is our political language going to change when trump leaves if thats in january or 4 years from january is it really all about trump because as much as they hate the left vilifies him he is such a may. Bottom line topic for them to go after i mean is ratings ratings ratings its wall to wall go after the president and of course he convinces people that hate trump but i dont think it really helps our our our conversation about politics because hes a man hes more like hes not going to always be with this but a lot of the problems we have in the country we are with in the going to get worse and i really wish you would stop focusing on that one man and talk more about policy as we have done on this program you know i absolutely agree with you there and there are a lot of things that i. Inadvertently take credit for it even if there even if there are comments from the left that i think existed in america long before president trot can your President Trump credit or you know for racism or hope at least the taliban are these other instances that weve seen for generations also for trump ever came into office along with or in some cases trump with you know court into this world so i think that we have to look at this from the Vantage Point like you say hes not going to always be here whether he wins in november or doesnt it in the day i think that there has been a seismic change in american politics in american diplomacy specifically it not only about how we talk about each other in terms of our some politics but also the ways in which the bailout that this recall and a lot of heat anx to come out it has gotten beyond policy and i think that you know you kind of brought up in your introduction earlier but for every you know policy is what matters the most when i recognize from talking to people on the streets is that this is the type of thing may get spokes going theyre not going to sit home and read the policy increase theyre not going for any any person whos running for office what their specific policy platforms are just are you know and those things are accessible online or when theyre caught pass or other things about and thats just not something thats in the regular form of things to do for me or and every day its just not happening what they do latch on to is these nit picky when i think that donald trump tapped into very well might be that politicians. What you did as well was to note how people interact with each other and what sets people off and what gives their attention the most to Donald Trumps credit i think because he came out of that reality is he because he came out of the entertainment world he knows how to work and i think he uses that to his it in the same way that we honestly saw bill clinton do it in the ninetys he also knows how to work a crowd so i dont necessarily think that working a crowd is a bad thing i do think that we are in the air and politics now blaming all social media and people use where people say things that they would not by saying in public. At all and im not sure that regardless of who gets in a november this november or 2020 or were ever going to go back to an era of stability in politics i dont think thats ever going to happen regardless of who is running on either side i think we have had a watershed moment in this country that has built up largely because of the anonymity that weve seen with you know the by other things on social media that were just not going to come back or you know i guess it was just serendipity that you know we go back to reuters is there a duty on my part to think about the civil war because if we just you know what i mean should you say theyre going to doesnt give us cause for optimism ok im sorry im not very optimistic i think theyre ok but what i really i really truly lament is that on the issues of Like Health Care about policing and things like that if you take all of that toxic charged rhetoric i bet you could get a lot of progressives and conservatives and dont say yeah i agree on the so its how do we get this done if you take out all of the toxic noise i think a lot of people actually agree on a lot of things but what good is a mission to be in here and i agree with there is that there is kind of cherry picking to set people off and you know what when you said people well you lose the conversation about policy go ahead lori well i think thats an interesting point because one of the things that has changed is people used to be applauded when they did trying things that they could come together on saying where to cross. Ill pass this he says i partisan legislation we saw that dynamic even through a couple of years ago and now what were seeing is that when somebody on one party groups to work with somebody across the aisle on an issue theyre instantly labeled as weak theyre theyre called a traitor and dick cheney thats an element or base or yeah yeah yeah thats an element that i think its relatively new and thats going to be hard to overcome i think that even really have these these very partisan periods before there is always certain topics and you know i work a lot in Veterans Affairs and that was always something about what we should be bipartisan about helping veterans and thats gotten very highly polarized politically toxic lately so to your point about if we could just get rid of the rhetoric i think that is the 1000000. 00 question of how do we get to a point where we can strip that rhetoric out and thats a separate conversation from some of the actual issues that you were talking about health care Supreme Court police et cetera reason focus 1st on how do we get rid of that rhetoric and quite frankly i dont know the answer right now i think you do it over you know answer either but the 3 of us have an excellent conversation and im looking at you know looking at myself no ones hair is on fire were making some progress color of fire. I look at him but he may well guess in washington and they did and i want to thank our viewers for watching as you are you see a mix i mean remember. Yes they take a day to hold back all my social class. People who are also in poverty they 1st. If youre born into a poor family if youre born into a minority family if youre born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life chances are people that i. Every day. You meet your needs and the needs of your. Opposition rallies break out the president is sworn in. Dozens of people have been arrested. The Russian Foreign ministry accuses western powers of launching a disinform ation campaign over the alleged poisoning of. The opposition activist has now been discharged from hospital also this hour. Ready to provide. United nations staff to try to. Free of charge adding that theres already been requests from
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