Change so which is it or is it as always just about power. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest laura fink in san diego she is the founder and c. E. O. Of rebel communications as well as a democratic strategist and in Ellicott City we cross to Jason Nichols he is a political analyst as well as a senior lecturer in the africanamerican studies department at the university of maryland right across not rules in effect that means he can jump and he want and i always appreciate it oh i was going to say the angle or you that i always go to the person that gets up early for the program so im glad its you you know im a political junkie like the both of you and i watch a lot of Different Things i disagree with most of it agree with a tiny bit of it but if you you know if were in this election cycle lets play. For example fox ok the impending dystopia if joe biden is going to be elected no i think that things could change when you look at the people around him but you have to be very starkly different interpretations of what a mental change a change in the country and nothing will fundamentally change how do you see things playing out go ahead well i do go on fox news occasionally i understand the culture there and but they and the fox news is about asserting a narrative as well as reporting a narrative and so the that is part of their culture to say to stir discomfort in the right and make them feel like theyre under threat and so i can understand with the rise of the progressive laughed and some of the ideals of the Progressive Left whether youre talking about medicare for all or youre talking about the Green New Deal that they want to because they disagree with those policies they want to demonize that and talk about it as an as if its extreme also you know this is we are not action here and so talkin socialism will rise and so to down on his right and channels that the goal really is to stir up the base and to instill us here the rising left now that sad absolutely the left is on the rise and and the political left has gone and galvanize like never before in the age of donald trump so we see not just ideals move forward and the public conversation and opinion moving to the last but we also see firebrand leaders like alexandria ocasio kirk has anything like Bernie Sanders that are able to carry that with a new generation of voters and these and same question you know it was an excellent answer more about him yeah i think whoa as far as dystopian outcomes from leadership i dont think we can get any rewards toby and then we are right now i think were a very precarious situation as a nation. I think were going to get that donald trump still. I think a lot of it is i think you always should point to the top and look at leadership when your leadership fails then the country fails and then the country gets torn apart were divided were not the United States of america and that all that ultimately falls on in the lap of the leader in our leader right now is donald trump in here has not done what we look for and leadership he has not accomplished what most leaders want to do which is to actually unite the people behind a common cause not unite half the country behind one person i think when we look at some of the narratives that weve seen in media i think laura had to correct that you know there is a an objective for one side or the other whether its fox or imus n. B. C. Or some of the Smaller Networks they all have a merit of that they want to tell and that they want to show and and you know we could talk about the political left but i think its a very good time where youve got someone like joe biden who has been moderate you know perhaps not because laura i mean it may be its a big tension right now i mean and its the thing is i look at it is that its really has very little were going to talk about policy still but it has very little to do with policy it has everything to do with donald trump this is a referendum on his presidency its not really on the policy if joe biden comes in its not could it be easy street for the Democratic Party and its rough relationship with his progressive members right here so so united ted now because of the donald trump your reaction well weve got donald trump for a long time and we havent had a united team and i mean we go all the way back to 2016 so its not i would say that certainly donald trump is a galvanizing force but it also is it is it is not only the institutional leaders like joe biden that have a long history and record of experience in the Democratic Party but its also the willingness of the political left and we see that. Again with alexandria cost you as though being for palosi as speaker coming in working within the system i mean i think that thats about understanding how far to your earlier point here she understands power fundamentally at with she 29 years old and has learned that she can galvanize her or her community outside of the halls of congress and then use the power of their power to bring it to the halls of congress in the halls of power in a different way than maybe activists might expect the power of the political left is on the rise lets not forget i mean in 20 team we won with the moderates so the democrats marched and took over the congress with moderates and mostly moderate women so i do believe that fundamentally theres some political gravity in congress that wont change however the needle is moving you know when joe biden is having weekly conversations that the list gets war and about how to execute policy then that is a sea change from you know his days with the each neoconservatives on his sort of intellectual squad. Mentally the American People have moved and the politicians have moved with the new and old you think theyre really conversations ive seen some of them not really conversations but anyway thats a subject for another program and jason i know that because youre a frequent guest on this program are very grateful but you were Bernie Sanders supporter. Do you have it is it is the is there a burning feeling in your stomach you must vote for joe because of donald trump not because you love joe well i think thats how politics work i think we you know we take the options that we have and we vote for the person that we think will do the job better in this case it is joe biden when i look at him and donald trump you know politicians or the candidates that we have available which one is i think the stronger leader and which one is better versed in Foreign Policy which one will do better with domestic policy and which one is interested in are more interested in the issues that i think are important for the American People and right now i think thats joe biden now joe biden were running against someone else i think it would be different and i want to be clear when i said big tent i didnt say united 10 were not always united and i think one of the things that is that i think thats actually a good thing i think one of the things that laura pointed out is the fact that there are conversations and i think what joe biden is doing correctly right now is that he is making it clear that the Progressive Left will at least be listened to and that theyll be part of the conversation now going to be able not necessarily that hes going to repeat them all the time its not enough for you to be listening to you i mean after doing that youre still willing to just be you know you look except being listen to one im not trying to be you know a dictator the part of god or of the United States i want to be part of the conversation i want to be heard and you know i want for it to be a star i want to affect change i cant go along and say that everything i want should happen right now i think that you try to push for those things which you also have to work within the structures that exist and i think thats what its about for a long time people like joe biden actually have ignored. Young voters theyve ignored the Progressive Left and theyve even made fun of them at times and now they realize that this is a Political Force that is growing and they could not be donald trump or anyone else without having them at the table and so now hes willing to talk hes going to make concessions which is the right thing to do i think that the right does the same there are a slightly smaller tent but you have some people who are closer to the center and then you have some people who are really are if you have conversations the Tea Party Caucus did quite well ok and to transform the g. O. P. Not necessarily in a good way im i am not a republican im a conservative i dont really have anything to do with the republican splits that you know well yeah but you know i kind of think that the progressives have been less affected in the Democratic Party let me go to you one of things i find very very curious is it particularly on fox and then we hear from the president himself theyd like to invoke the word socialism as to scare people but i think if you look at Public Opinion polls a lot of younger people find that to be very positive terms i guess i sometimes find these g. O. P. People to be so tone deaf to whats actually people are thinking about a time when im a former academic and in the early 1990 s. Socialism was very popular at the university of california it just seeped into the culture of your reaction. I think the debate about socialism its kind of a silly one. Due respect to the terms and to the right wing media because it really is about policies i mean whether you which hath yourself to a particular philosophical label all ultimately this is Kitchen Table politics do you have health care and how do you get it do you have a job and how do you get it what happens when you lose your chops cias a job a job or is it just are we all just our own independent contractors you know getting with our apps higher being hired with no say. Question and i might say thats bipartisan you cant pin that on one party thats for sure to keep going but were fighting that battle here in california and i think its it is its and its an important one to talk about it because people are thinking about am i a socialist or not most of the time theyre thinking about can i buy a house and i want to be able to feed my family or my rights going to be protected in the workplace and i am am i going to carry the burden of the nations of the cost of the nation or are wealthy people going to pay their fair share you know if im a woman or im a person of color and im going to be respected in for to the same rights in the constitution as everybody else or as a power dynamic different those are the things that people think about and share about deeply and so i think that the debate about socialism is an invention to try to polarize people rather than talk about the ideas they might be our own agree because im actually i didnt come in this piece during europe in the 1980 s. I know what socialism is ok i always find i think a kind of irreverent chuckle when people Start Talking about it and i think most americans couldnt find venezuela on the map in their life depended on it same point to you jason. Yeah i think i would agree i think more of this is about policies i would agree with laura i think also as you stated the young people are not afraid of the term because they know what socialism is. Ok but i dont if you look hollow from a philosophical standpoint and from a theoretical standpoint they understand that we have socialism all around us we have socialism that are late night that source are so rich people certainly have so she wasnt really there is you know i think it was dr king said you know we have rugged individualism for the poor and socialism for the rich so you know and they call you know for the poor they call it welfare theyre call it handouts they call it socialism but you know for the wealthy they call it sucked. Cities or for actually for people certain races its a subsidy others its welfare so again i think that we absolutely how socialism in this country and it functions in some cases for the public good. You know we can talk about Social Security you know we can talk about medicare about all money. After our break here im going to jump in here were going to go to a short break and after a short break well keep going you know what discussion is the left radical in america today. I know no crowd. No shots no. Action well to. Drive no one. Point should your thirst for action. To every crisis in america has been packaged as a bond and sold into the junk bond market with a longer maturity at a slightly lower coupon right and theyve been doing this now for 40 years to the point where americas indebtedness says then they engineered to the point of an extinction event as have many countries as has the glow. Welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered im peter about remind you were talking about whether the Democratic Party has been radicalized. Ok lets go back to send you a laura well lets talk about a lot of issues here well you know in looking at some of the characterizations of the political left in the United States right now there are these issues that tracking the court the Electoral College you know getting rid of it amnesty up to 2030 1000000 people renu deal whatever that really means open borders defunding the police the filibuster these are all related to the left and reacted at least one of them ok go ahead. Well i you take in the most conservative labeling and framing of all of those issues labels are fair i think pretty much fair well if you can barrett and bad but we dont call it amnesty you know weve got Immigration Reform you know so its so lets talk about lets talk about all of those issues a little laughter is on the rise and they have and they certainly have an agenda that said you know also really people want action all of the things that youre talking about whether its policy onion firemans policy on immigration policy on criminal Justice Reform and Police Reform there are broad swaths of the American People you didnt mention you didnt mention gun safety all of these issues are top issues for americans in the cans and out of the can so much and weve seen gridlock in congress you know masterfully executed by Mitch Mcconnell now for many many years and when broad swaths of the American People want to see and i see this independents included in that moderate democrats included in that and even slice up republicans including that so the political leftist sharing wire on issues that Americans Care deeply about i think youre going to see action on those issues when we come back to congress especially if democrats take back the senate absolutely yeah i mean one of the things that i mentioned are institutional changes jason giving manipulatory college ok packing the court ok i mean this is trying to create a political monopoly adding i forgot to add. The district of columbia as a state to more senators which would be 99 percent sure democrats i mean ive come to many liberals about this and they say you know what we have an imperfect democracy maybe. But at the same time you know if these are creating institutional changes in which they would create a monopoly for ever the where the left would be in control they didnt win and getting rid of the filibuster is well your reaction its so number war and when it comes to wasnt. In d. C. Do you believe in taxation without representation. Yeah like thats not very democratic. That was not. Born in the back are down with ice might open and it is evening. And i mean let me just say taxation without representation and in many ways is tyranny and i actually think you know its not going to go to propound reasons right be honest although we know that washington d. C. One of the reasons ted kennedy actually said it said it out plainly is because its too black and to democratic and thats not why you take someones vote away at least it shouldnt be untrue 1020. 00 so again we need to address these things and i am when we talk about the will of the people we have to understand that the Electoral College if you understand its Foundation Goes back to the 3 things compromise it may be david right now and you know you shouldnt have a situation where someone loses by 3000000 votes 3000000 americans believe that the other person should have won the election and then they come out the emerge the winner so to me it sounds to me like we need to address these things at least start to have a conversation about how to fix them how to make it more democratic how to make it so that the will of the people is actually executed and again i would add you know if you want to talk about taxation without representation we can also to report a rico in there the fact is they pay federal taxes and they still dont get representation in congress they get somebody who gets to speak a couple of words and i think that that is fundamentally unfair for american citizens if youre an american citizen you should have all the same rights as the next american citizen and right now were talking about john lewis and thats exactly what he stood for you know with with john lewis having just passed away was fighting for the fact that every american should have this. Same rights particularly when it comes to voting as every other american ok but laura if Hillary Clinton had won in 2016 i dont think we would be having this conversation about the Electoral College woodley i just i fundamentally disagree i think that that that that jason really hit it on the head when he said that this is really about Voting Rights and Voting Rights are fundamentally are people marching in the street and not just not not just black people white people marching from the suburbs with their strollers saying lets try it now we see we see the connection to control and Police Violence and voter disenfranchisement we see the connection between the gutting of the Voting Rights act and people inability to hold people in Public Office so i fundamentally disagree i think that there are movements in this nation that whatever happens whether you have a hillary in the white house for example trump because these issues transcend and party and are the cornerstones of our democracy not everythings a political power play but things maybe have been jerry rigged for some time in steve or a certain certain constituencies or i think its always about power always i dont think that is that but i dont think people in politics are virtuous its all ok i think about it i dont i dont think john lewis he wasnt very generous taking their power and thats why these issues are being discussed because it will enhance power and it will fundamentally change the course of your hold onto it probably forever ok so you want youre talking about disenfranchising half the country because youre thinking about in franchising others ok i think it has to be a lunch more balance i there really is not 0 sum game allows people to vote it doesnt keep her away already conservatives blown away it just brings their folks at the table and at the expense of other people why would anyone go carol. Gotbaum out of that map dont add up. That the student does that you know that i dont take your gun away by giving a gun to someone else its not a piece of. Others the other votes are more important other and that is the whole reason why we had the literal college in the 1st place so make sure that new york and virginia didnt dominate National Politics forever thats why. Are you getting. All of the 1st of all because of the Electoral College urging your dominated their white house with the 1st part of the 1st like a russian president 70 if it were for were from virginia because they counted there in slate africans as 3 bits of a person we you know they didnt have as big a population as they had in the north but they started counting people who didnt have the right to vote so again i think your history is a little mixed up here and i would also say that as laura state you what we need is one person one vote thats the way a democracy works so you are not no ones going to go to oklahoma and say were going to take her where you are both. The republican remember not the way we had 2 president ial candidates and 26 to both of them were from new york so i dont understand how this is going to be well my great leader how do you win the presidency you need 200 in 70 electoral votes that you know you can talk about the top where youre going well you are but when you when you run for president you know that you need to 70 you dont need x. Number of billions of votes you need 278 the girl vote you know that going into the game and if you dont like the outcome and like i can understand george w. Bush gore got more than george w. Bush but the goal is to win 270 and you know we change it if you want to have you know about it youre right i think the argument that were both making is not that we dont like the outcome its that we dont like the process and i have to chase things that. Im trying to get here. And you know here i i think the primary thing and i think i may have kind of lost my thought here but the primary thing is that. We know we would not be having this conversation here would Hillary Clinton have won because the majority of americans voted for Hillary Clinton so i agree that discussion about the process probably would have been delayed because the outcome was what you know them 66000000 americans one of them and that makes sense that we will have a conversation because there would be functionary you know the way it should what would you have a situation where the dream theres a 3000000 vote deficit for the winner there and it doesnt make sense its like if you play a basketball game and i have a 100 points and you have 97 you know you win that doesnt make sense so again its true this is god and you know g. E. Is a bouncy ball game and you who gets the most points wins and a president actually in the United States gets 270 electoral votes thats. Why youre not matched the no not at all let me tell you here kiran keep telling us how the system works as opposed to arguing in favor of youre saying the system works this way therefore the system should work this way and fundamentally thats not an argument in favor of it its simply as statement i changed the rules in the middle of the game it was going to theres no change of rule if you dont give me my margin not receive it in the next 200 years we havent seen change just so the way that i recall our structure my point is that changing the rules right now if you if you if you win the house of representatives you win the senate and you win the white house youre going to making big you have the possibility to make massive changes that will not be elected with up be agreed to by a Strong Majority so what is the mood majority thinking on the Electoral College what is the majority thinking on immigration what is the main. What i worry about is that the left takes control of the 3 branches of government they dont they will care about when the majority and position is on a lot of these because you have the power and that is the whole purpose of the Power Outages not the power because the majority voted for you but thats how you get the power you know except for the presidency thats the one area where the majority care not vote for you could actually lose the majority in whig majority and thats exact point there would make it about someone like dumbass look at what. You did not vote. What about the filibuster rule again making it easier ok for the majority power to maintain power go ahead james you know i guess i wasnt here where our end was was was take was was essentially not allowed here and i wasnt here when when Mitch Mcconnell and the republicans fundamentally changed the norms of how Congress Works i can think back to Newt Gingrich when he started doing it alternately this it frustrates me to hear that the constitution democracy is has been unwound for some time by the right so when were talking about reforms neutral reforms i dont last this we keep forgetting our history and how we got here because supreme there is no rule that says you cant afford to appoint a Supreme Court justice in the election in an Election Year so when you abuse the filibuster which is a gentlemens and womens agreements from time staff we have to fundamentally look at that filibuster and say is this working in the context of some of the deep deep problems of our democracy i also say else say that its not a good idea and weve run out of time very spirited i want to left wing people to come on and debate it was a really good debate and i really enjoyed it and i hope our viewers that you. Want to thank my guests laura and jason and i want to thank you. Watching us here at you see you next on remember. The world is driven by a dream shaped by. The dairy thinks. We dare to ask. Guys are financial Survival Guide liquid those that you can burn in zinc is quite easily. To keep in mind now as to take me into places. Where. 54 jets and more than 1300 military personnel are headed to air force base in alaska where is that to say come on ill show you whats the reason for any type of enhanced u. S. Military presence in this area russia. What is it suddenly about the South China Sea that makes it so that it 11000000000 barrels of oil. Take a look at this map who really owns what kind of says no it belongs to us india says no we claim that that belongs to us both of these countries have Nuclear Weapons capabilities there is reason for concern so thats why were going to drill down on this story for you today right here on the news with rick sanchez where. You know as we always like to say we do believe by golly its time to do news again. Because the one business show you cant afford to man im going to washington coming out
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