A professor ill get back to. Austin and the author all the sword and the shield their revolution or realize it. And Martin Luther king jr Professor Joseph its good to talk to you thank you very much which im. Aaron and congratulations on the your book which was released just last month from my commercial mind of your i guess you can wish for more should really say but as an american citizen as a goal or how do you feel about whats happening around. Well i think i take great hope and inspiration in the fact that so many people have gone to the streets and to demonstrate most of the protests in over 100 cities actually have been peaceful you know the media is focused on the violence and theres been a huge amount of why protesters alongside of latin x. And asian and indigenous so its not just black people protesting Racial Justice so i think its a great generational opportunity for the United States of america to finally get rid of White Supremacy and institutional racism inequality weve seen Racial Disparities because of coping 19. Weve seen Racial Disparities in the criminal Justice System education housing every single aspect of the United States now let me start missing least if possible but not by me as i was really your book well now the mechanics and dr king had earlier dish. A clear understanding of who and what they were up against that made all was galvanized public to get public support to change Public Opinion but when it. Floods down theres no disagreement that it was a very amity it raised that circle right this should never happen again and multiple investigations so whats the wind of bricks passed saying when everybody it means that Something Like this absolutely shouldnt happen think it happened yet its a good question the boy is bigger than george floyd and its bigger than the criminal Justice System so were going to things we saw in the black lives matter protest in 20131415 was really this argument and understanding that americas criminal Justice System is in fact a gateway to panoramic systems of racial oppression and economic impoverishment so this is about the criminal Justice System in the way in which the United States over the last 52 years went from the Great Society in a war on poverty to a war on crime that criminalize the entire Africanamerican Community and were thinking about whether people are poor or rich in the context of everything from racial profiling to an equal sense as between blacks and whites for committing the same crime so we think about why are people protesting if you are protesting because one they want policy changes in transformations they want to change the money thats being spent in the criminal Justice System and have that invested in communities that are africanamerican that are racially segregated theyre economically impoverished but they also want different policies in terms of. Tax policy. Zoning policy food justice and theres food deserts in all these different africanamerican communities theres environmental racism so many africanamericans and their children suffer just from asthma theres high rates of unemployment and theres racial segregation in Public Schools and in rez and in neighborhoods so theres a theres a cascading reason why millett a god im not debating any of those reasons even though you really look at the Washington Post data they dont Police Shootings are unarmed people of all races but in the last have actually decreased for areas where. Police officers also all racists how to increase but. Well that there are actually dispute that data if you look at what the guardian has said and look the guardian that is the british newspaper i mean the lies you have heard of them there is nothing out there so you can say that there are stacks other statistics and you can you can use that hysterics to set up your own narrative so but to plastic wrap our will be doing that is a progressive liberal newspaper that is i know i would i would actually dispute that the Washington Post is it is owned by amazon jeff bezos is absolutely not a progressive so i would doubt fundamentally disagree with him but he imagines that people want a change in policy and where did they want that from there we supposed to be charge of making this team wont it is its local state and national so people are right here in austin rather that people are organizing we did at that virtual town hall with over a 1000 people and the mayor is here in the City Council People want local change but they also want their states to change these policies and they also want several government so the way which our system of Government Works its local state and national after all of those pieces together and to really divest away from funding in criminal justice thats about punishing. Incarcerating brutalizing traumatising and showing black people and putting those investments where communities and neighborhoods and people and their children are wrote respected it can thrive Professor Joseph but if you look at concrete really not in general or africa think critically of the atmosphere of the present if you look at that website its a perfect picture of diversity to have a blast at the last decade there are so many is it isnt what isnt up systems of structural oppression and White Supremacy so what people are asking for is not more racial diversity in the criminal Justice System theyre talking about rightsizing a criminal Justice System and down as an equal Justice System we have the biggest criminal Justice System in the world in the United States weve got 2300000 people interests and weve got over 8000000 people on parole and probation so what people are asking for simply is this take the money that youre putting into criminal Justice Department incarcerate and contain but hardly black populations and put that money back into communities who hate the famine or need it for Levels National law whole state etc but i feel that it rivered me that the actions of a concrete Police Department where these brutal murder happened needs to be at our eyes and its not just any other Police Department the department it was presided actually i think role model for the child it was supported by the central leasing it was promoted by the Obama Foundation as you know the recipient of what they call a data driven back against Racial Disparity policing so they this is you know the this is an institution that was actually arabic person sends a needle this teaches that. What do you think happened there a loud for such a brutal crime take place that not just so why the Police Officer took part in it but. Just standing by and watching that should Say Something about the larger culture. Now. Well yes i think youre missing the forest for the trees creel justice and United States of america policing in the United States of america is irretrievably corrupt so even want to obama is trying to do federal guidelines where people at the grassroots are saying black people its not about by cant its not about people agreeing to try to be nice to black people when the whole culture is set up for them to incarcerate to punish to criminalize back that up unless theyre saying we need to defund the police we need to defund criminal justice its not about electing progressive district attorneys its saying we need to reimagine american democracy and its not just about the minneapolis p. D. They are just the tip of the iceberg of a larger cultural corruption in the United States thats based on White Supremacy its based on antiblack racism thats based on a long history of gee unionizing and demonizing africanamericans and punishing any incarcerating them so whats really important about this moment the reason why ive argued in the Washington Post the boston globe on that and on meet the press that this is a generational opportunity we have a lot of white citizens who are also outraged by this because they realize that their stories are connected to the stories of the black lives that are being lost absolutely but then you have also have a lot of blood why is it is thats why its higher probably whats going on in that neighborhood there have been more than a 100 arses so its not a small minority that save all that. Millions of dollars and i just hundreds of businesses look at a lot of people here and i am proud that she probably dont have a single undamaged store in that neighborhood their stuff sitting on the floor that they now use to still during that wind. Time and their blood by the way and when you say last week you know why did they say they stuck for that daddy her company you dont. You know i think that fear and division talking when you look at the armory cannot eat at your division 8. And there are a few days yet you have what when you think of the urban uprisings and the looting thats happened once theres been big portions of the violence that has been police and demonstrators and we have the social media to prove that thats happened in new york as happened in atlanta cops have already decided that youre not disputing but youre not putting it in into a context its a logical fallacy to just focus on one side so no need to get not get even bigger of a good example is just one side is what. That media had now and there is a lack of that what they turned our spotlight on. Right now the propaganda that malcolm would be against and that dr king would be against is the media trying to focus on violence and not trying to focus on what is the origins what are the origins of the rebellions why are people so upset people are so upset because a structural inequality and racism even though your black folks who youre saying have been have been looted we have in new York City Restaurants and places that have been looted that are still helping out and giving meals to the protesters because they know that anybody whos looted is just a small fraction of people who are peacefully protesting so again youre missing the forest for the trees im not missing anything i shouted at her. I think malcolm x. Would say that you are part of the Propaganda Machine thats trying to be black and ledley absolute a god not in an area not as irate but there is that syria is not only because i didnt witness it youre not in there in american makes what youre trying to assert in that analysis even less credible to your behavior being there and theyre admitting that youre being very disrespectful i think you think i am pretty good whereas you know me now me and mock attack me. The war that i do or have a couple of black guys. Being delighted her black lady is also consequence. White supremacy black generating beaten almost a down. Is that. I mean here in arlington i mean he hears i hear heres the problem i think theres a problem i think what youre trying to do by any means necessary to go from not going next its utilize the uprisings that are happening to make an argument that somehow black people are as racist as white people i think thats unbelievably unfortunate i think thats wrong headed and you i that i certainly think that black people are not yet a bill of racist i didnt say that i didnt say that i just said a moment ago actually i did 1st of all youre making an assertion based on some media clip that i actually havent seen the course that ive seen arent that black activists are getting white. White looters from smashing windows and telling them thats not what you should do so youre youre taking one that i actually havent seen and making trying to make an argument that somehow you know theres a moral equivalency between that and why people are outraged by George Floyds execution and theres not well procedures or classical down her at all and need to take a short break down there that are just as United States. Or. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy going from day shouldnt let it be an arms race into this on off and spearing Dramatic Development the only place really going to exist are theyll see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. Welcome back to worlds apart and big deal joseph on their own the story. Their revolution their real lives and marx jr is a just of last year into your book because i think that all present. On stage that you. Carry and. Mix and. I mean he she aged dont you can use this glorify me all nonviolence and peaceful marches while malcolm x. Is an apologist or. Jogging from your book i guess it was a little bit more complicated than that. Well yeah i think one of the things that i argue with malcolm in martin is that dr king is talking about radical black citizenship and malcolm x. Is talking about radical black dignity and initially they are converging but over time they converge and they converge in this idea of human rights they converge on this idea of connecting radical dignity and citizenship together by dignity with malcolm x. Men was an end to Police Brutality and to racial oppression where more of the gene junior met by citizenship was really both an end of racial segregation and jim crow oppression but he met more than just Voting Rights jane argues that were Peoples Campaign Everybody Needs a living wage he talks about guaranteed income talks about health care it talks about decent housing for all so when you think about these ideas of dignity and citizen ship even though usually think about change or malcolm is nonviolent theres a selfdefense that idea of dignity and citizenship is usually important and by the 1964 early sixtys or malcolm x. Assassination we see them not only just meet once but malcolm listens to a speech to king gives after he wins the nobel prize he goes to selma and meets up with caressed scott king while dr changes in prison so theres really points that real convergence between both of their Political Class i think what many people dont realize how that connections changed over the course of our lives softening in the. Mix and hiding in the case of the taking of spiegel about dr king specifically are you saying that he was not oppressed almost sad ties posthumously. The narrative her american exceptionalism were going to be fair to say that dr kings legacy might call to buy White Supremacy. Well id say it was coopted by liberalism and theres an aspect that has been coopted by political conservatives who try to just focus on one aspect they focus on a weapon to the march on washington and then they dont focus on him anymore and cheney really has to ask about social democracy hes not a communist hes not a marxist hes talking about social democracy believe he believes in both but he was very impressed by scandinavian spousal democracy where people have a social safety net jane is antiwar he breaks with the Johnson Administration over the war in vietnam and came really wants everyone to try to eradicate poverty so change really believes in the war on poverty even even to a greater extent than the federal government that it goes to mississippi marks mississippi which is the poorest zip code in the United States and i show in the book out hes easing tears when hes speaking to these families who dont have shoes who dont have blankets who dont have clothes and a really valid to go to go to austin d. C. And whats important for us just like a protester say never again those chains fighting for peoples march with with poor whites with poor people from who are mexican americans with native americans and African Americans all together to do this or people smart to try to transform american democracy in 1960 well thats right to be sure with the expression of why the possibly ghost writer you know the structure of american politics and American Power its actually racially and makes you have a little sister all white you have the 1st africanamerican president who has done this before and plus a mistake by his own admission unless you just roll like wow i think this sound most prosperous country town to leave this up isnt me rebuttal why as opposed to the elitist supremacy they are released. Ready to exploit the glorified people of the skin color when it suits their insurance so why supremacy is not just about right people its a its a political ideology a set of Belief Systems but its also its also actually a crude going up our economically socially culturally United States presence there really are no white George Floyds where you can have a video of any police in all 50 states murdering a white person and i say no white people ever have deaths at the hands of the police there and a lot of them live like People Killed at the hands of the police here and that black people you know because were talking about because the demographics in the population where there are hundreds of white people white people who cant afford to send their actual dentist or children i know getting proper food and education and there are a lot of people like that yes there are a lot of you finish them for before we even talk over you tell you my dear explain what the White Supremacy mean. Its really about whiteness i dont understand is why it is true because its really the people who joined the resources were exploiting everybody else but heres the thing so way which way it is theres a possessive investment in that identity is that so even if youre poor and youre white youre going to be treated differently by and large doesnt mean theres exceptions by criminal Justice Systems when you try to vote access to Housing Education so thats what we mean we think about White Supremacy even though poor whites might be hurt by economic policies that are crafted by a least they still have more relative access then their africanamerican and or latin next counterparts so certainly does White Supremacy have at times a negative impact on white people absolutely i would definitely say that including criminal justice but when we think about what is White Supremacy mean its a political and philosophical ideological set of beliefs that people imbibe and that they prove real power and access from. The parish president of the United States bird my celebrated man all over it well. A person or as i said before ruined it consciously that one of the most prosperous countries on the arctic a continent where labs were much better at it rated in society than he any of the other arab countries that today if they beat slave market or bull black and white is that example of why the promise you are a black supremacy imposed are beyond. What i would say its black supremacy in close and african continent because obama he might have been the 1st africanamerican president but hes still representing the United States and so we think about. The military there are industrial complex. Its overwhelmingly white so even if you have a black symbolic head of that doesnt that somehow now you and i have a cigarette in the way i think any agency in making decisions here is a put. Him with the agency but theres no reason to racialize his agency in the context of him as head of the United States when the United States is obviously an imperial power but its a racialized imperial power so its not racialized enter our visas the black people causing the imperialism so if you have a black general if you have colin powell or barack obama just because theyre africanamerican doesnt somehow change the edifice of the nation state they want. You know one of the things that i really like about politics and have been very much nominated by it is ideology here are very im one of the things that i think that is that the real change to be our american minutes will come really from the all in the bosom of the of the black. And that is actually the notion of personal responsibility to stop yourself everything you say is right now is even the africanamerican president that is the responsibility of the library at least right rarity is the raised the person and all of that phrase the where is the personal responsibility welcome doesnt really say as personal responsibility i would push back against that he says selfdetermination and so what he means is selfdetermination to actually break free from the winds of institutional racism and white if he were immediately sarah yeah he he absolutely actually did but he was stating upon itself that were going to rise as a political activist and as a political mobilize there to gain enough power to transform these institutions so this idea of just focusing somehow which which in a bipartisan way at times liberals and conservatives to black be a viewer this is misses the point because its institutions that are structuring that be. Havior black people have never had equal access to institutions and opportunity and outcomes in us society and thats why were seeing these demonstrations and these protests and these these rebellions and the interesting things that youre seeing multiracial multigenerational rebellion happening in the United States most of it has been peaceful but theyre really resisting this this this politics and practice of institutional racism now present just one last question i have for you when i was a student in that case you sound bite i was or i was growing up from a very poor family but one of the things that surprised me a lot about the United States is how many have received if there are herself you have great libraries Great Charities you have lots of scholarships affirmative action their unique opportunities for a person to develop and many many minorities a whale of. Why is the problem with people at a disadvantage and im not arguing that there are structural balances i buried as built into the system not army of. The belief that what doesnt get next is stronger whats the problem with taking making use of all of god because look at yourself you wrote such a brilliant book lot of barack obama look at Michelle Obama did it and they all did because its. Easier to tally be you know all the black people that you are just victims yet because of the last well this is why supremacy isnt really marry because of passion because there are many faults that i as a russian can say that the United States navy strives to purab in balance why i think its much different for people theres theres so many millions of people who are impoverished who live in segregated communities who dont have clean water dont have access to good food here im so to tell those people to sort of lift themselves up by the bootstraps is is its not a solution in terms of policy wise and you know we done that to the Africanamerican Community rather than invest especially the last 52 years since 1968 since the uprisings after change assassination so even though absolutely theres going to be bubbles of racial progress and i talk about that i say hey you know its not just iraq im Michelle Obama its these these these big very successful entrepreneur or is it they are all saying that they got all of that and then you can imagine yourself all those people but that doesnt mean that that trickles trickles down to the entire community and thats not because of behavior or a lack of wanting to reach out for opportunities those are real real structures and telling people. The story of American History is not somehow introducing them to victimization they need to know they may 31st was the 99th anniversary of the total so racial massacre in the United States where over 300. 00 africanamericans were massacred out of the black wall street in the greenwood section. Thats not in our books its not in our books the impact of not just racial segregation in terms of textbooks but the redistribution black land that was owned by black people in the 1903 early 20th century that was taken in expropriated which helps explain the wealth gap between blacks and whites so we are talking about the truth of American History just like talking about the truth of russian history that shouldnt destabilizer make anybody feel like a victim what it does is provide your context and actually provides you a way to try to transform your situation because they make sense thats what you do as an educator you try to show people why are we here why did george floyd protest what is that all and expands a way that we can understand it so thats not victimization thats actually giving people really personal power and they are in it to understand their situation and thats what malcolm x. Wanted thats the norm the king jr one of the presenters a preacher i really appreciate you and your brother is very near it again. And thank you for watching us here again next week on all of the by. Our. Bar. Thank you. And believe the. Shocking. This is not a video game the average us citizen is over 10 times more likely to be killed by a Police Officer than by a terrorist. After witnessing a wave of Police Brutality videos which appear on my news feed every day i decided to investigate the problem of Police Brutality in america. State police kill stupid people every day. And night
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