Transcripts For RT The Alex Salmond Show 20240713

Its known in scotland these are the exchanges a Prime Ministers questions the Prime Minister is a democracy was a stage of the final straw was his calling privately admit this position is undemocratic unacceptable and completely unsustainable the Prime Minister has showed an utter contempt for scottish democracy youre Scotlands Parliament for scotlands people to speak of it was not only the right honorable gentleman who leads the s. N. P. In this house it was also alex salmond and his protege nicholas sturgeon who said at the time of the referendum that it was a once in a generation to any city they said it did the right thing why they changed their mind here is that you know are these that in our area of democracy yes im still how is the impasse likely to be resolved alex asked political commentators this wishart and former s. N. P. M. P. George coven. Professor welcome back to the alex salmond show thanks alec now in your preelection forecasts of a month ago you were more or less spot on you said the s. N. P. Would make substantial gains the unionist parties would suffer the vassals you didnt foresee the defeat of jewel swenson but apart from that youve got matters right whats happened since then and scottish politics there is a standoff as you know because the Scottish National party has said it wont said referendum this year the government with mr has said no we and him thats where we stand at the moment but as you say its a start of a request from the core stop them to have the socalled section pfaff to have another referendum accepted by westminster the point blank refusal from ball is just in this week so how does that sort of constitutional standoff get resolved im not at all sure because theres actually quite a lot of Division Within the ranks of the independent supporters as to how we should proceed theres a theres a bit of a head of steam i mean amid some supporters of the with the government and independents that mr keep seeing new then we should effectively just do a u. T. I. On the grounds that the union of the parliaments in 1707 was a union between if you pardon the expression 2 consenting adults it wasnt a teac over at least it it wasnt put treated as such at the time so thats one thought the thought of this Scottish Government quite differently is that if we have any sort of independence referendum in scotland which doesnt have the legitimacy of the section 30 order that you flagged up then it would have proper legality and if it doesnt a proper legality it will impinge on scotlands ability to stay in europe to make a bid to become a european nation there after of course the idea of Scottish Independence being decided and the referendum is actually a relatively new concept and scottish politics for for many many years successive Prime Ministers even Margaret Thatcher excepted that image or 3 of. P. S. For the essay he would provoke in the pan the situation was all that changed i dont know id really like to know the answer that myself because even m. L. S. To jack the scotland secretary said as recently as last autumn that if in the in the 2021 scottish general election there was a there was a majority in favor of independence then that would be a mandate for a referendum he just this last weekend has changed his tune in that possibly because of boris i think its also interesting to look at the Northern Ireland situation there are many similarities in as much as Northern Ireland voted remain the majority voted to mean as indeed the majority in scotland did but Northern Ireland has come out of this with a very nice do its good another bumper bonus coming a long down the tracks but significantly in the Northern Ireland agreement there was provision that if a majority of people in Northern Ireland wanted reunification they could have a poor to say to a so and that if im a member correctly and the legislation are violent they can have a poor theoretically every 7 years if the good friday agreement is 7 years printed off for nonviolent but not good enough for scotland well just at the very fact of having a referendum having a pool is good enough for 11 or good enough for scotland and of course the other thing i mean i dont begrudge the irish this a toll but the other thing is that ireland Northern Ireland thanks to boriss withdrawal deal is no able to stay within a tariff Free Trade Agreement within a fit to be still within the e. U. Who has scotland is going to be in some difficulty the i mean weve already seen signs of this with the americans putting slapping a tag of scottish whisky which is as you know is a very big Foreign Editor for scotland and indeed for the for the exchequer in london so what is scotlands reaction in your estimation likely to be the johnston vehicle going to be well we will show him or to have there were people from the shoulder go to the back of the bus i dont think anybody shrugging their shoulders and. More and i think the fact that there were 80000 plus people marching in and i mean that the weather in glasgow last saturday had you know any self respecting ducks looking for umbrellas it was absolutely horrendous but the number of the troops came out in numbers who i would worry about if i were nicholas sturgeon is you cant keep expecting people to turn know with their so tires demonstrate a high level of enthusiasm and then do nothing i think they will come a point where the Scottish Government has got to take some for my action when were the other otherwise they stand to lose the support theyve already built up reports are going to push in your gut the general election result scotland more or less correct not going to ask whats going to happen not well i mean i think the general consensus with which i agree alex is that there will be no referendum in 2020 apart from anything else we learned this week from the institute for government for one to happen just in terms of the logistics and they would have to be in agreement on a 1630 order by april and that aint going to happen selfevident from what we saw this week so theres not going to be one this year the 2nd full back position if you like is that the year the 2021 scottish general election is effectively the referendum the next referendum on independence but the problem with that is that even if they win and win big the Scottish Government and even if with the help of the greens theyve got a substantial majority in favor of independents you still have the no inconsiderable problem of burra saying no. Arent whats going to happen when boss says no i mean i seem to remember that marking thought show used to save north scottish devolution yes thats right and the brits it can in kenyan right therefore and memory when scotland put dont its cream of rate 70 of the scottish people in 1980 and he was us the same question in the he said what ive said to you too kind in a kenyan right what happens if mrs that your says no and he said well we are the people and we say yes and like to see something similar reports out for glasgow thank you very much indeed thanks al it does cover the welcome but to the alex of im sure happy new year arts. Low just kind of a blow for commentator but you also are a former Scottish National party member of the Westminster Parliament so firstly as a commentator how would you assess this impasse this deadlock between edinburgh and london on the subject of the independence referendum well i mean were in Uncharted Waters here for the 1st time we have been told in scotland that you cannot have a referendum ever youre youre part of an Indivisible Union and you have no say in the matter now Indivisible Unions have a have an unhappy record of breaking up but were uncharted water also because after the election people in the labor party people outside the nationals family have begun to think well the games up we want scotland to decide where its going they need a bit of leadership and i think theres a question mark over the Scottish Government which seems to have walked into what we walked into a trap from from Boris Johnson hes going to say no hes going to go and say no so what does the government do but just kelvin the 1st burst or so should be responding to the vitriol from bob as johnson by the end of this month what the answer come forward and that stage that you can all rally behind well we mean it is an amazing thing going on in scotland in that people are voting with their feet that actually literally getting on the streets and marching theyve been marching presently every month the beginning of january 80000. 00 people in the pouring rain in glasgow theyre looking for a leadership and the leadership has to be something more than just waiting on boris that appears to be the Scottish Government like you know in Northern Ireland they already have in the good friday agreement the constitutional right to call a referendum on the border whenever they want scotland is being denied that and i think its some point if boris is refusing to give scotland what nor violent has there will be civil disobedience but as a nod now in the good friday agreement is a 7 year period what we see that would be 20. 21 that you applied up to scotland design. Democracy is invisible if people if people are part of a union they get it they get the great to say whatever they want whether they continue in that unit and that is no happening i think that the problem for the Scottish Government so far is it wants to take all the decisions itself but there are new forces in in train after the election people the labor party are shaking their heads they want Something Different we have to have some form of reaching out which goes beyond simply the Scottish Government having of addicts and i think we might need some kind of institution some kind of convention some kind of gathering of all the Political Forces goal of the say we want the right to selfdetermination and the people who are marching in the streets in scotland they need some kind of leadership as weve seen in catalonia say where they dont we told the politicians they organize themselves and they campaign themselves if theres going to really has a plan it is to start spending some money on it and actually theres theres theres been no move from the s. N. P. Leadership to mobilize on the streets to campaign to produce Campaign Literature for independence or a referendum it cant all be left to the people at holyrood you know youre becoming known as the the man with a plan after the after goal you wrote to the National Paper this week in scotland so spell out what the planners of you think theres a way forward chart for viewers there are 2 issues one is the right to selfdetermination the other is winning an independence majority on selfdetermination i think there are no broad forces who agree that its scotlands democratic right to have a referendum when it wants if it wants its not something of be imposed from london secondly on the issue over india winning the case for independence worst call of the moment split 5050 we need to campaign on the doors everyone agrees on that but the campaign has to be organized scottish s. N. P. Leadership is is not actually talking a good game but its not actually. To do anything we need to set up a separate movement of those who want independence in the streets separate from the politicians who are poor can organize the marches you can raise the money you can produce the campaign but you can start knocking on the doors no we cant wait another year we cant wait to the next Holyrood Elections we need a campaign now but the campaign has to be organized and that has to be organized by the people themselves george garrulity and ed miller thank you very much indeed. Join us after the break to get the views of 2 s. N. P. Parliamentarians on house call then can progress the case for a referendum in the face of a westminster 2. Party i bought him a. Car. He. Was back. To the Financial Times today with the Money Laundering 1st has its cash in the 3 different. This is a good start well we have our 3 banks all set up something in europe something in america something overseas in the Cayman Islands it will all these banks are complicit in their tough talk or say we just have to get much gold its a money to do some serious. Ok lets see how we did well weve got a nice luxury tax for stacey old beautiful jewelry and how about. Luxury on a bill again for max you know what money with a highly. Watched. Welcome back the view from scotland from the streets and the election seems clear and determined it will force meeting and theres a bloke picked alex spoke to form a scottish cabinet member im briggs at rebel alex new m. S. P. I just former colleagues i knew the elected m. P. For the slogan Kenny Macaskill to chart their votes ahead. Kind of macaskill newly elected member for the slow into the Westminster Parliament congratulations and welcome to the exam and to thank you its good to be back at yourself and the other 48 independents support again peace alecto from scotland a huge election triumph but if i arrived in westminster making your 1st speech in the palace of westminster of this week and Boris Johnson says that you know getting a referendum so what good now its a democratic right to the people of scotland to be able to decide upon their own independence and therefore this attitude been taken by Boris Johnson that you cannot have an independence referendum ever despite the fact the prepare to seat one and the board to pull in ireland is fundamentally undemocratic super got to build the base not just amongst independents supporters but all those who cherish democracy but when you last week suggested this new Scottish Constitutional Convention replaying what was done in the eightys and ninetys of devolution you took a fair criticism a for breaking ranks and secondly from people saying look we want our referendum no we dont want another talking shop for a number of years well i think late every member of their same p. I want a referendum if we could have it yesterday i would have it but the fact of the matter is it was never going to come i dont think i broke ranks i think we said what everybody knew but some people chose not to not to accept or to acknowledge so i think weve got to plan our peer we now know that hes not accepting it we should be doing i think building that beast that Grassroots Level because everything we do a senior political level of bringing together than i can see to you have not said it to others i can see ive had private approaches from other members of other Political Parties no i think greens who agree with us so weve got to reach out to them but weve got to do it not just a National Level we should be doing this look level a nice little bit those and other Political Parties who agree with the. Who oppose not just to see the because its not just scotlands right to choose a different direction on whether an independent nation is the right to choose a different direction and membership reviewed up of a relationship with europe of how do we impose taxation whether we you know luke after the period of ponderable or custom to the windows johnsons going to do this is a poke in the people of scotland to be able to run their own country and choose their own destiny of the preciousness of new names no patco but the Political Parties and what level of seniority of these people who are saying the at least back scotlands right to choose the labor party and its individual members i would name then thats for them but theyve been in touch to see that they agree so well as good buddy to some or colleagues actually i was at the hand of friendship by others we talk in parliament were talking parliament in its and i think thats what we have to do all levels we have to reach out to activists in the community as weve done elections as were chopping doors but as as a particular that we bring together whether we call a Constitutional Convention a convocation of this is how we move forward get the elected representatives of scotland in the uk those that choose to come the s. N. P. In green will be there im sure including the person who got in touch me there will be more because of spoken out from the labor party and there might be others but if a Prime Minister with a parliamentary majority of 80 it westminster hes prepared to dismiss an election result skulled hes prepared to struggle inside the loss of half of his m. P. s is he really going to be impressed if the s. N. P. And some labor of people and perhaps the s. T. C. And some others get together and Scott Lobdell is it really going to borrow some of the late bottle starts well im sure it would initially hell have some concerns but it wont bother but its then the actions that we can work locally because then the day you and i were there at the time when Margaret Thatcher decided to bring the poll tax in on scotland to bring in a year from south of the border the elected. We didnt have a Scottish Parliament would oppose to it but if the people of scotland ultimately said no Margaret Thatcher was brought down and the iron lady was well and truly melted on the backs of the anti Poll Tax Movement off a conception that of bottles johnson will wave the check book at scotland like this with a check book at no 9 in the present moment that he might not to be quite as unpopular as many people in the National Movement in scotland believe well 1st of all i dont believe that the check will be waved to know that action even of this has been a spate across the channel but more importantly i dont think he has opened ever going to be popular in scotland theyve never been in portland scotland ive just been doing some research about 200 years ago an adult ed henry did and thats who you remember who was a put into it of similar measures he was a tory it represented an oligarchy of rich land owners 200 years on whats changed alice to jack represents an oligarchy he says really want at least a scottish secretary hes got no more political legitimacy than henry done das and yet to see it represents an oligarchy of the rich and finally kind of a classical form of scotties just to say to you boy in the Westminster Parliament you signed up for a 5 year term will you get your referendum and not 5 years. Going to mccaskill thank you very much thanks for letting me. Mele member of the Scottish Parliament bought us johnson says no to another Scottish Referendum does come as a surprise to the Scottish Parliament members i do think it was a tall a surprise given the comments he and his colleagues have been making in the ridiculous comments made by the scottish they khatri alast of jock the even if next year again we renew the mandate for an independent verification dome they still wouldnt exempt the democratic decision of the scottish people its unbelievable that the tory partys got itself into this situation yes but surely the Prime Minister whether its unbelievable world not consider look. Commons majority of 80 my mandates bigger than yours you can go on wessel for your referendum well 2 points 1st of all i dont mind into actually relatively bigger than has because he is 43 percent of the vote we get 45 percent of the vote in scotland but much more importantly than that this is a both the right of selfdetermination which the tory party in the past has been prepared to accept that the scottish people have the right of selfdetermination we went into this union valan tonally were entitled to exeter voluntarily and he cant stop that and this is somebody one said we are the scottish people and we see gay s. So were not listening to Boris Johnsons neat yes but he doesnt require you to listen to him all here the choir says not to authorize another Scottish Referendum so in the bowels of the Scottish Parliament is there a strategy to deal with the johnston veto and already we see people in other parties most noticeably the labor Party Breaking ranks with the in leadership and saying yes the scottish people should have the right of a referendum and determine whether they want independence or noid and thats coming from a party whos actually going to up. Is independence and such a referendum Kenny Macaskill the former scottish justice secretary has told us that he supports another form a Scottish Constitutional Convention to press the case for a referendum is that the sort of initiative you support or do you believe are those to say well thats another talking shop thats more years delay we want a referendum no if the last time we formed a Scottish Constitutional Convention and i actually was very effective in forcing the issue of devolution onto the agenda and of course its no 20 years since the devolved polman it was established we could do it they were much stronger now because weve got a polman and we could use that palmer as a forum to bring you why its a action of Scottish Society together to demand the right to selfdetermination now you say scotland speaking in one voice but you yourself has been a rebel on european policy youre one of the few signal s. N. P. Figures are they simply parliamentarian who kind of agreed. If you speak with one voice when youre putting forward a different point of view on the key issue of europe the fact that breaks it is going to happen legally at the end of this month means that weve now got to look at our future not only in relation to the rest of the United Kingdom but what kind of future does an independent scotland want with the rest of europe by your own view is by far the best solution to that would be for an independent scotland to become a member of the European Free trade association efta and that gives us the benefits of the e. U. With most of the dont sides of the e. U. And i believe we can garner a consensus for that position as well ali well finally what do you say to these tens of thousands of referendum independents marshals on the streets of glasgow defying the elements last weekend. These are people who are looking for a mean action not nasty for for talking shops or for the delay that they want to see the Campaign Progress to immediately put sure message to them well well theres many of us been fighting for independence for 3040 years and even more so i would see 2 things through them 1st of all i believe that we are going to win this battle and win it within the next few years but secondly we have got to play with the hand weve got to maneuver got to be more perfect b. S. Than albion sails and that means continuing with the marquiss setting up the Scottish Constitutional Convention looking at the possibility if were not going to get ascension thing at the order to legitimize a referendum in the eyes of westminster is it a toll possible legally to have a consultative referendum organized in scotland can waste months the start all of these things have to be considered but weve got to keep the battle going and put a fairly clear battle plan in place easy to get the right to selfdetermination through a 2nd referendum to tame of our own choosing in the Scottish Parliament and secondly and that way for a i will be fighting for an independent scotland neil from atlanta thank you very much indeed pleasure. That is an ancient chinese story distinct from the 3rd century b. C. Sometimes called the spear and shield potter talks and tells of a seller of armory being exposed when he attempted to simple to mislead sell an unstoppable spear and an impenetrable shield or only to have it pointed out that logically both could not be valid seals thus in the wake of the general election something has to give when it is a simple force of Scottish Nationalism movable object of majority government and the house of commons the scottish 1st minister promised a referendum this year indeed f 2020 and said that a convincing general election victory would sweep away all of position the victory rived but the opposition has stayed however the british Prime Minister fought the election in scotland on opposition to these demands and lost spectacularly it is difficult to explain amounted to run britain while simultaneously denying a bigger one expressing scotlands will some argue that the s. N. P. Should buy their time prepare their case reach out to other parties and wait until the new johnson government hits a roll however with brits it evident the mitten scotland among the independents marchers is not one of calm appraisal but of bold and determined resolution that is a viewpoint that far from done the brakes a constitutional drama is only finishing its 1st act with the Withdrawal Agreement in comparison however the scottish constitutional standoff has just started the opening curtain its barely up on this particular scottish plea. From whether scotland to be will soon move to whether the labor party with the runners and writers and i declared for the leadership contest next week we are trying to the subject of housing and examine both Practical Action and academic study on homelessness so for now from alex me and all of the team at the show well see you next. In the United States president ial candidates debate the future of the u. S. And the world. Max kaiser and Stacy Herbert dig into the burning questions of this election cycle one topic every week well stacks student debt trade wars corporate money universal basic. And more catch up with whats front running this sunday exclusively on r. T. You know world a big partisan movie lot and conspiracy its time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that Mainstream Media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the back and shouting past each other its time for Critical Thinking its time to fight for the middle for the troops the time is now were watching closely watching the hawks. You are no offense be you no longer a young woman in fact you are one of the last living survivors of the nazi else asked im aware of that. Reject all you like. You can never forget maybe you can now auschwitz was really like to be inhaled because you would never believe it was a human candle to have as a copy of a course for 30 years and know if he could prevent it all seems so a lot offered by your side to make it right when i get out on the farm saw you dont want to take my son to their next the oh so he can piss in the hope for the bless my heart hurts. A manger up people in russian politics not to be uprooted and puts forward his nomination for a new Prime Minister off the government resigns following the president s proposals to delegate more powers for the russian part of. Irans press t. V. Gets pulled from you tube in the u. K. Again. Hours after an earlier had been reversed this comes as posts supporting the assassinated general. Taken by social media giants. And the new European Commission president faces further scrutiny over. Sensitive government. During her time as German Defense secretary