With the latest on these stories you can head to our dot com cross talk is next coming up in about an hours time my colleague wants to. Follow in welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. Ever since the arrival of Boris Johnson to 10 downing street theres a growing sense have been evident ability that breaks it will be executed on october 31st with or without a deal to be get to this point what lessons have been learned should have been learned. That im joined by my guest were now in paris he is chief Foreign Correspondent at le figaro in london we have allister donald he is an associate director at the. To me of ideas and in edinburgh we cross in john white he is a political commentator and writer originally cross titles in effect that means he can jump any time you want and i always appreciate let me go to john in edinburgh 1st here in my introduction i said theres a growing sense of inevitability that we will have brags that on the 31st here and my off the mark go ahead john i think with a ton of answers you need slightly off the mark because there is one hell of a buckle to completion and if you keep all of our well orders johnson is. Trying to push through parliament and by suspend the moment for 5 weeks and having bricks it so all i dont think it is inevitable no i think it me be more inevitable it will see the end or distortions very short term in government in such it or election does come to pass that his statement that you know say the commons and im saying is plan for parliamentary procedure to ascertain whether he will get as we get breaks that delivered on a Technical Support or what it reminded me of neglect Church Issues and to missed last speech and because its an 89. 00 the boos and jeers of the protests that almost succeeded in germany and Boris Johnson and so this is a tory establishment in complete and utter traces unable to loot and the will we and i think the creators know maturity but it is beyond bricks that all remain and even be argued over its no about this corner relic of the British State and i dont really stand on the ground of socialism or solidarity with Jeremy Gordon John Mcdonald at all or only get over this but. John i mean it respect about we feel about it its still on the agenda here let me go to were now in paris i mean what what could Boris Johnson get from the europeans from brussels that to resume couldnt ok because hes saying hes still open for a deal even if that window is only a matter of days that are open go ahead in paris. No i dont think that he will get anything because for 2 reasons number one the big countries are really fed up with this brit this. Is it the sions that is it these 2 that you know are like 60 years old who are really fed up and 2nd think its too complicated to have like 27. Countries agree on the new proposal because for Foreign Affairs matters you need the. So technically these are techniques of European Union its too complicated so Boris Johnson will not get. Anything more he has been told that by. And by emmanuel corps in paris. The same thing to you i mean it respective of how democratic or undemocratic the tories gambit is here it is ramming it through it but Boris Johnson and his associates will say but this is what people voted for and hes just doing the will of the people irrespective of well its a bit devious but then politics and being devious are synonymous so go ahead alistair in london well yeah i think thats thats correct that hes acting on a democratic mandate and hes trying to get to a situation where the u. K. Actually leaves the European Union the problem just now and the problem that hes got in terms of concluding any of these arrangements by the 31st of october is that steadily uneven and rapidly the rulebook has been torn arpan terms of how politics works theres all sorts of constitutional issues being arranged with parliament grabbing hold of the order book and determining the order of business those legal challenges to what to his capacity to get us out so i think all bets are off just now in terms of whether he can get us out by the 31st of october and you know 6 you could are. And did i would argue that those people who want to delay brecks its in fact want to do much more than that they want to actually stop that and right from the outset the mechanisms to stop or exit those are have always been posed in a kind of democratically friendly way but that mass their real intent which is really to stop or exits away other lets say with intentions i like that lets go back to admiral john i mean to resume was the worst person possible to negotiate brags because she didnt believe in it ok she wasnt she was a remainder now we have Boris Johnson which with a very kind of a checkered past hes really kind of grabbed this thing and made it his own and hes going to fall on a sword one way or another when it comes to braggs it here but least hes in braced it and it seems to me and you gentlemen in the u. K. Are more familiar with it than i am but there it seems to me legally theres not much the out there that can actually really stop him hes going to get this done deal or not to go ahead john or their own. Nation. Under we ready dont know who actually has been released to test the legality or hes trying to put words. So we dont know that question is yet to be determined and of course the series out in a bit of dynamism a book oddity of girls there are also a kind of to a caucus that was severely lacking in our culture our spirit realm it was treason me was his base but given what hes trying to do in the last week or so you will treat to use a queen to give them permission to suspend parliament of weeks really get. It thats all changed and i think. That opinion is issue shall be against them i dont think theres huge appetite for going back to the me and i certainly someone who supported me in an election in the referendum purely because not because i support you but because i believe this is a case of computer be worse than it is east but i think theres a shift towards a new group shit he breaks it rather than an old. I think thats what you. People are standing on this issue at this moment take both course theres a huge amount of direction in the country people want to see this result one really rather tired of talking about it recently theres a lot of criticism for the raid that she dilly dallying along with 13 all these past 3 years and hes feeling good she should be well i dont let me go to you in paris im sick and tired of talking about brags it is well i mean from the president s position in europe i mean this bill 8 delays 3 months 6 months i mean you need to cut the gordian knot ok and i would suspect since Boris Johnson and his supporters are determined to have regs it executed they didnt make it the 31st and be done with it i mean why i keep delaying it ok i mean uncertainty is the worst thing in politics go ahead in paris yes i think the one thing was thing and put exam in the United Kingdom is admired through the world forwards old democracy but on you to that is british policy and british. Democracy is a total failure they didnt want to go in the beginning you know in the confidence of missin the. Confidence of rome in 57. 00 they didnt want to draw on the Common Market they tried to do something a competitor of the government which didnt work so when they realise it in work they are asked twice. To for a top of the go into the Common Market top of the goal refused twice then they insisted again and again and finally the and then they needed a new refund and and then thatcher came and said oh but i dont like the rules i have to change their own and so on and so we made you know that didnt want to tell you too so its a way of it and now they decided by. If ellen them to leave but even do leave its complicated with them i mean after 3 years they dont know what they want and the house of commons does not know what it wants and so i think at least with Boris Johnson we have. Square i dont believe that it is the interest of britain do leave the European Union but it is britains problem and britains this is it but at least. In my view is doing square and the stand the ball politics. Let me go to our i reflected by what we just heard from our guest in paris interesting go ahead yeah yeah i think the thing to understand here is the shift thats taken place over the course of the last 3 years we have the referendum in 2016 the Political Class were overwhelmingly for remaining within the European Union and the vote went against them so it came as a real shock to them the initial response from theresa may is as as been say it was one of the mentally damage limitation in terms of how the britain withdrew from the European Union she wanted to moderate the way that we withdrew so that we could retain as many links as possible and stay in sync with with our European Partners the problem that shes hard and the problem that boris faces just now is that the damage limitation hes faced with is the very existence of the conservative party because the people have taken against to raise amaze. Poor attempt to leave and have continued to exert pressure on us to have a break from the European Union so boris is forced into the situation of desperately trying to leave in the 31st of october because he has he has the challenge of keeping his own Party Together personally im not convinced that he wants a new deal breaks that i think this is a ploy for him. To come back with some sort of moderated version of the Withdrawal Agreement which i dont think will be overly different but which he can hold up and say well this is what ive won were going to leave so i think you know his problem is a tricky one and the situation were in just now is that in a way the middle ground the more moderate positions of fallen apart remain us have become ever more confident that they can push towards a situation of revolt and those that one breaks that have been forced by the remaining pressure to avoid leaving to go for ever more radical solutions which has ended up with the desire for a clean breakfast or no bricks its or however you want to phrase it ok well its there its very interesting here i like what you said you went with the you have the in the moderate views on both sides of the issue kind of fading away but thats what makes october 31st they do were die in a many ways for both sides here are a gentleman after a short break well continue our discussion break stay with us. During the Great Depression which are old enough to remember that it was most of the family were working. There wasnt it was bed you know much worse objectively today but there was an expectation of the things were going to get better. There was a real sense of hope. There isnt today todays america where shaped by the 10 principles of concentration of wealth and power. Reduce democracy attack solo doing engineer elections manufacture consent and other principles according to no on. One set of rules for the rich. Thats what happens when you put her into the hands of the narrow sector of will switch will is dedicated to increasing power for chills just as youd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america. Join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics Small Business im show business ill see that. Well you know they are they were kind of adopted because we were called pirates so long. Been there in the small boats next to the hard pull of ships and its. The little self to be told fish already 90 percent of the dart gun and he wont recover. 15 scoops 75. 00 tons they do it several times a day with a complete oh you get an idea right. We have to understand we can not stay used to just. Be with him this is the deal for you because. Im doing this because i want to the future world to future generations to have and enjoy the ocean we. Welcome back to crossfire were all things are considered im peter and were discussing braggs it. Lets go back to john in edinburgh ok lets work under the assumption that brags that occurs if its on october 31st or january 31st of next year its happened outside our supposition right here theres a lot of talk here that the you know we you k. Will drift into the us or bit because we have people like secretary of state mike pompei i just essential drooling over the possibility of a new trade agreement with the u. K. Which of course will have all those political attachments to. It with a deal with Foreign Policy i mean is this something thats going to happen because i think a lot of people on both sides of this issue say britain cant stand alone its going to have to choose one side is that really an outcome that a lot of people that voted in the referendum are interested in seeing happen go ahead john no i dont think it is and i think thats why it was a lot of opposition both in 2 border chances that seem to route through you know direction because of the trauma and ministration you know the trouble michigan has been in both antipathy towards multilateral institutions and multinational trade in blocks and it prefers to deal and by lead to the on a bilateral basis no the all singles that only the strong can compromise and all of the equals can Reach Agreement look good and does come cold and shivering out of the e. U. Are there any deal then it will be vulnerable to any diktats that will trump then goes on and you see from this past week he slipped out as not only on americas adversaries but also written on its allies canada and france so everyones greatly worried about what this would intil for britain Going Forward clearly what is about the future of the n. H. S. A National Health service which is a free Health Service at the point of need was introduced by the course for liberal government and is a shining example of social solidarity and action and people are worried about how this survived in the trunk gets his hands on it because we know that the us Health Corporations are see the n. H. S. As a glittering price and Boris Johnson has secured given get into the spare who got a tease of the n. H. S. We see it but how can we do that for sure conditions on the cheap deal with us in the u. K. Your course predicts a future will be imposed by us more than we buy and so yes i think people are rightly concerned about donald trumps. Intentions towards britain in the event of a new direction and i think that is feeding a lot of the opposition even on objects that sent to the prospect of an one direction of course or no let me go back to paris. Here i mean i really appreciate how you characterize the u. K. s relationship with the your youre European Union for during and i want to talk about after what kind of relationship what kind of constructive relationship do you think the e. U. Will have with the u. K. Post braggs it i mean im sure that between france and britain the defense cooperation will go on because its very important you have to realize that britain and france are the 2 only nations in europe that are ready to fight that have soldiers ready to get killed to kill because an army is done for that you know and we saw it was do it in bosnia for instance and other. Armies in europe unfortunately use that for for some foreign operations if you like you can rely only on britain and france who are 2 Nuclear Powers who have a corporation in all fields of military including the Nuclear Field so i think that britain will remain a very Strong Partner in defense 2 fronts as far as the special relationship with america of course it will go on but you have to remember remembers something that theys a big difference between some and Boris Johnson that you saw in ballots Boris Johnson said openly that is pro free trade when of course is a protectionist and then also boyce would have to remember that british people is a proud people and they dont like when its too open to clear that britain is the pool of the United States and when its. Became too poor to clear you know in you remember this summit in some part of the book when when w. Bush called blair or your ask him to come like a pull to his seat you remember that scene and because of that. The labor party actually and britain fired tony blair as the Prime Minister because they cannot british people is a proud people and they will not be the poodle of america and you have seen that in the broad our prices in this grace one iran and ship that. America for another you know. British accident again the iranian ship and britain well you. Will not be totally prudence i mean legally its a really good example let me go to our excellent example but if and as i mentioned if a new trade deal between the u. K. And the United States is dictated by the United States then youre not going to have that kind of freedom here im thinking about iran for example where france has the european position and the u. K. Would be open to a lot of pressure by the United States to side with it when its a very unpopular policy around the world the british the british would be reduced to having to have to follow orders and i think again thats something thats not really been discussed very much im on the brakes its i dont get me wrong ok but there are a geo political implications of it go ahead alister. Well yeah there are huge geopolitical implications i mean i think though the thing is that if we come out of the European Union with anything approaching a clean break where we have the ability to make our own policies are meant to enter into negotiations then were in a better position than the decisions been handed down from. Which were part of but which as a people as a demo swedes never really hard any possibility of contributing to the making of so theres lots of scare stories yes but i think we should take. 6 should look at the Positive Side of this of being able to. Interact on something approaching our as a starting point on our own terms and obviously compromises will need to follow in all of these things but ultimately if youre talking trade then weve got companies in britain and companies in america and throughout the European Union that want to make products and want to sell them at a profit so theres a certain logic in that which will lead to compromise as we shouldnt be afraid of that on the political side i think we have we have some Big Decisions to be made but the important thing i think to remember is that even within the European Union just now its not all harmony is good from parts of the European Union the think Different Things its a league wants with china germany more thats exactly where i want to go here thats exactly where i want to go john what the what are the things that brussels is so infuriated by briggs that is because it sets a precedent and always a tappy in the european home ok and i think all of us would agree with that but once one gets out it creates a model for others to think at least start thinking about it and i think thats one of the reasons why brussels was so rigid with the u. K. And they were actually quite. Or to have such a weakling is in may so but the president will be there and its something that the the mandarins in brussels certainly have to be thinking about go ahead john. Well yet touching on one in or scent of a grown b. In our akun in x. Thats a rare in europe over the last 4044 years of us involvement in European Union its been a mutation brussels us completely also mishandled this process because us stuck to a rigid object at lane not making any alone and for the little skepticism crushed you know as know whod become a mainstream political current. When it was always on the margins only the savini course in government she just ended in italy or buying or only the rise of marie le pen and get rollers and all and then of course bricks or so brussels has advanced norse anal of willing to perform its institutions or forest practices and democratize and sorting is a castell fertile and well well monitor not rape if you dont would suffer a lot of damage if you came or to leave the 6th largest economy or 1st but largest economy 34 percent of all u. K. Imports are from the e. U. 46. 00 of all you can export to the e. U. So that would be a sizeable chunk taken and specially in germany come manufacturers who have a big stake and what happens with this breaks it process so i dont lose a lot of prestige around the world and its and its potence would be only we we know the people that mccrone want to see the e. U. Politicized and to move towards being a super state i think its part of the reader never largely because of the e. U. s handling of this process and the us for the units on which were not to touch the point that was one of the best things that britain did was not to enter you know who that ended up not thats testament to the foresight of golden brown who was the limit chancellor 10 years ago and made that decision not to enter leaders on your contradictions that are you know one does not lead in order to begin but its the little model that sustains your opinion that is incomplete and not ok russia lets talk about that little or no thats go back to you in paris what is the biggest lesson from this whole break for experience from the continents perspective go ahead. You know. I interviewed the friend secretary last he had was when he go in on the lawn of his embassy in paris and you know what he told me at the end of of the individual finally. Charles the gold was right yes they bothered us like 60 years of that i finally saw the man was right. Im not. You know its amazing. When you find other jobs ago was right but. No i think that. The the your opinion is not in such a bad state you like it or not you know is a really good competitor for dollar its a very strong currency its used by everybody is getting stronger and stronger people said 5 or 10 years ago you know will die i dont see the death of you at all you are you are telling us that. Europe is not united yes there is fights among you know but not so such big fights because i remember that the italia in the said funds and on the on the on the sanctions was russia that they would they would pull off and they would they would vote against the sanctions and you need only one you would have been a country to say we dont want the sanctions to go on and you have no most european sanctions against russia they the talents did not do that so you still add some kind. Of unity politically over there to the i think that the your Opinion Union is actually in a vegas thing that you like and doing the right reverend gentleman would by running out of time to run out of town i dont want to read about that i want to repeat the most important sentence of this program goal was right ok many thanks to my guest in paris london and. And thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r. T. C. Unix i mean remember the tools. Exists is a sticker from the water bottle phone in the stomach of the fish the brand is part of the Cocacola Company which sells millions of bottles of soda every day the idea was that lets tell consumers there are the bad ones there the litter bugs are trying this way industry shouldnt be blamed for all this waste the company has long promised to reuse the plastic. And may look at suitable sets for their class to. Stay on your special projects funding me. On im your best bet is the footy team the fun now the mountains of waste only grow. Seemed wrong but. Just dont call. Me. Yet to shape out this day become educated and engaged with. The trail. When so many find themselves worlds apart. Just to look for common ground. Only at mit and im. Getting more heavily involved and how they were activities for the last few years. Noam chomsky has made