Business and i thought to myself how can it be that weve gotten to the point where even the labor party which is about work labor doesnt you know doesnt actually have a narrative a way to talk about values collectively created and they confuse the word Wealth Creation with business because in the book you talk about Lloyd Blankfein fully of Goldman Sachs saying that your productiveness comes from organizations like Goldman Sachs its like were always told this is he of londons a little wall street you know its creates value yeah but what do you know whats interesting is that up until the 1970 s. The Financial Sector wasnt even included in g. D. P. It was actually seen as just a transfer of the existing value from one place to another kind of like you wouldnt include Social Security payments its just a transfer and before that in fact the way we would talk about finance was also in terms of rent so the classical economist talked about in terms of unearned income it literally just moving stuff around which of course isnt true. All the finance but anyway there is this kind of skepticism and what is finance actually doing and so in the 1970 s. Which is when the deregulation and some other changes the size of the Financial Sector started to become larger where you had was that the people who were doing the systems of the National Accounts s. N. A. Inside the United Nations started to say i got this thing thats growing larger and larger in the economy isnt even being accounted for so instead of pausing and saying oh dear why is that what is this thing this blog actually doing they just came up with a justification for including it so Investment Banking was included under the term risk taking that it was a service for risk taking remember that when you include things into the National Accounts you have to kind of say what it is doing so in the u. S. As National Income and product accounting so all of this is suddenly stuffed into the g. D. P. Figures out without any kind of value judgement is it actually producing something or is it just moving things there when you maybe want your virtual t. V. Journal or newspaper and its talking about basically g. D. P. Growth is all that we can hope for for human operators using this sort of massive well let me give you a little test. What happens if someone is cleaning your house lets not make this under a civic and then you marry that man. What happens to g. D. P. Before it falls and if you pollute. We all in the river so all the strain the only shows or things that only the only things that we pay for get included just explain the pollution yeah so when we pollute g. D. P. Nothing happens to it only once we pay someone to clean up the pollution does it change and in this case it would rise or the example of the cleaner was if someone is doing something in your house and then they keep doing it even if youre no longer paying them perhaps because you married them and they still do that the g. D. P. Was is going down whereas other services in the house for example care 2 you know really important Care Services which we know are very valuable in the kind of a more colloquial sense simply because theyre not being paid for dont going to g. D. P. This by the way something that feminists economists have been arguing for a very long time environmental economists have been arguing the point about pollution for a very long time what i kind of brought to the table was this whole issue about also the Financial Sector which is you know is that actually creating value how would we kind of make that valuation given that actually how we measure value is simply through price it is for the really big as a feminist to go in as divorce is good as well yeah why not exactly but you know this is the big revolution and in the history of economic thought is that the logic used to be from value to price nowadays we have a theory of price which then determines what we value so take teachers whats really interesting with Public School teachers Public Schools the teachers that work inside them because the service gets provided for free to citizens we dont actually include the value of a well structured you know Education System all we include are the the costs so the salaries of the teachers go into g. D. P. Not the value of the product that theyre producing if you divide it by the demand side as you can cut g. D. P. In different ways but on the demand side so all the consumption spending all the Government Spending the investment spending and that exports this country mainly grow. Consumption led growth and that consumption is fueled by private debt and the ratio of private to disposable income is actually back at record levels to what it was just before the financial or that is you talk about apple the one that was valuable companies in the world so again government stooges or Government Investment in these sorts of figures we arrive at the idea of up will be a great. Company with a lot of other nerds garage tinkerer is that saturn you say its the government that well what i need in the case of the apple story in this kind of builds on my previous book called entrepreneurial state is that the state in again how we talk about an economy is just seen as fixing a problem economists say fixing market failures and if you think of the more colloquial use of you know youre talking about the state its there to enable to facilitate to do risk to set some sort of basic framework conditions and then get the hell out of the way but actually what the state has done in places like Silicon Valley and the few places in the world that have actually grown through innovation because theres different ways to grow the state actually acted as an investor an investor a 1st resort but when we just think of the state of spender administrator or regulator we dont sort of capture this investment side and the true story behind apple is that everything that makes that phone smart to not stupid was funded by the Public Sector so internet touchscreen display g. P. S. Siri the voice activated system all those were funded not only by public money but by particular organizations like darpa in the department of defense that also has had to be structured in a particular way in order to you know use the smart innovation driven investments but its because we dont think of the state as creating value but just facilitating it and fixing market failures we also dont ask ourselves for countries that want to emulate for example the Silicon Valley model what does this mean for how we structure our public organizations to take risks to experiment to explore to be more Mission Oriented other guys are available. When the operative by the way is in trouble with the u. S. Government but where did it become all and when does it become all pervasive that innovation goes from the private sector not from going to directly the opposite of what youre saying than the name adam smith being used so often as part of this idea that government is role thats just factually wrong by the way so even if you survey as completely misses because adam smith what he meant by the word free market was free from rent free from rent and rent seeking to really free the economy of rent you also need ambitious policies that do sell but i would say so i start the book with quoting plato not adam smith and i say that plato said storytellers rule the world and the stories about where Wealth Creation comes from so only in Companies Like apple or in the Financial Sector a better capitalism cetera is i think a story that also then justifies this very skewed way in which were distributing the rewards which are actually fruit of a much more collective system and so what i would argue is that the kind of battle against the state that began with Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan had to be accompanied by a whole narrative a discourse a story using platos words that kind of portrayed the state as being you know a bit boring and inertial but what most people dont realize and so its not enough just to tell that kind of basic story is that the tech itself the really high Risk Technology was also funded by the state must use the new hero of space but also solar electric vehicles he received 5000000000. 00 from the u. S. Government Forestry Companies space x. Tests and solar city these are investments in particular companies and its really i think quite foolish to think that the taxpayer only socializes the risks and then we privatized the rewards as we did by the way with the bailouts of the Banking System and on those that everybody has to bail out and their spirit he goes on but of course i mean just in the past few days the word marxist is come up repeatedly in parliament actually as a were. Of contempt and even b. B. C. Journalism yet the would mostly because again and again in this book what is it looks you think the horror of so much of the most you have never read marx at best theyve read the communist manifesto and how how how does most help the marxist fascinating and if you mean the irony is if you read marx you end up really appreciating capitalism he describes it as a system driven by innovation constantly changing he has these wonderful metaphors for that change even in the comments manifesto but im really talking about capital is kind of magnum opus capital volume 12 and 3 which i read as carefully as they did adam smiths wealth wealth of nations David Ricardos principles of political economy the 3 were the classical economists compared to todays neo classical economist David Ricardo already in 821 was asking the question that everyone thinks theyre so smart when they talk about it today the robots are taking our jobs he was already saying this mechanisation which is fueling growth under the Industrial Revolution has huge problematic features its displacing labor its causing unemployment and a pressure for wages to go down but then what you have for 200 years up until the 1980 s. Basically is that the profits that were being generated from this new machinery and Industrial Revolution were being reinvested in other parts of the economy so even though some jobs were being displaced there were then being found elsewhere literally Creative Destruction not just in technology but in jobs what then happened at the same time of the facts or reagan years you had this obsession with maximizing shareholder value in terms of how companies were governed and that was you know became i think a fundamental problem sickness in modern day capitalism which were really seeing still today which is the lack of reinvestment of profits back into the economy the profits are being hoarded on record levels but also being used simply to boost share prices and Stock Options and executive pay through practices like share buybacks so 3 trillion dollars have been spent to share buybacks in the last 10 years by the fortune 5. Companies and when you talk to companies that engage with this practice and that would include you know pfizer cisco exxon apple they say well theres no opportunities for investment and then you look around and you see massive opportunities we have you know Climate Change which the i. P. C. C. Report tells us we have 12 years left 12 we have all sorts of challenges around Health Systems that really could be rebuilt and remember that if you do this ambitiously this also creates opportunities for profits themselves modern economic thought that instead of looking at these objective conditions of Production Division of labor mechanization productivity they look at preferences so even wages are seen as the outcome of the preferences that workers have for leisure versus work and its all focused on the individual the individual company maximizing profits the individual consumer maximizing utility the worker maximizing their choice of leisure versus work and that kind of takes the attention away from the Structural Conditions of the economy which are very problematic president as a coder thank you for the break a new film about revolutionary cuban ballet dancer calls a coster office not to go to mainstream portrayals of the socialist nation we speak to the films director thats right the old bloke scribe paul levitz he. Shall go with. The red. Revolution from that she will go be able to go underground. This is the poseidon adventure mixed with the titanic in one colossal sinking of the Global Economy right now weve got donald trump starring with the ghost of paul newman on the bridge of the titanic watching as they engineer called lost souls failure of the Global Economy. Officer. Told him to get up off the ground the officer began to pen him down. And then freeze on the sounds of kind of fighting into a grown man like wrestling essentially the officer who. Drew his or her own. Wish to away from the officer pulling the toy out of his crib. The obvious or did they kind of lunge for the weapon once missed and then what happened on tree swung at the officers hands didnt hit him i never saw any contact between the 2 any kind of went back to where they were so the officers back here there try again 15 feet apart at this point and thats when the officer pulled out his gun and he did it on 3. Welcome back United States economic war will undoubtedly continue on countries in latin america this week with further sanctions on venezuela and cuba being id buy the trumpet ministration is it any wonder when measures like these are parroted by the age of asian Mainstream Media for the new film that follows the life of revolutionary cuban ballet dancer Carlos Acosta uses dance to dispel the Mainstream Media myths around cuba as well as highlight the effects of decades of u. S. Economic war in the socialist nation we met up with the films writer paul laverty who also wrote i got your blake with ken loach and the films director issue of bullying in Central London i started by asking paul what made him choose the project im a very good friend called under calderwood is a scottish producer should read carloss autobiography no way home colors the cost of the valley done so yes and its a terrific read noise or get it done so hes a great writer and it was hilarious the because just really sparky very very funny he grew up in a very pure and ivana his dad was an absolute brute but hes also loved in a sort of strange sort of way in me going to work the age of 9 himself he was a grandson to a slave so hes really tough on carlos and didnt want to cause to going to trouble this is great youre going to school so the exact opposite. And theres Carlos Carlos they want to dance and he wanted to play football the opposite you know exactly so and that was the starting off point i suppose and then then we were met carlos yeah and then were meant to abandon to see him in there with his company the company that place that big rolling in the film and then i mean there were so many reasons to do the film and very few do not do in the film because hes such an amazing character is it is a boy who starts from a. Neighborhood in atlanta and in sap plane the 1st black romeo in the real belly so its an incredible journey and then him and then we could tell all these amazing story so we went for it. This is a warts and all picture of cuba as well which is in the news obviously draw trump saying were going to destroy their country and its usually image allows a covert as a war kind of economy that will be brought in by german corporate conscious of how youre going to depict the kuber of colors acosta yeah well we just wanted to be truthful because them and we listen to the propaganda from trump an hour from the British Government we forget that theres an economic embargo against the stay nation is going to for 60 years which is totally against International Law and is condemned every single year in the General Assembly of United Nations and they try to stereotype it but we actually go to cuba its actually a very determined selfsufficient brilliant nation you know as it certainly felt the full with the United States is you know illegal and bargo but theres the grace partly here theres great vitality brilliant talent fantastic dancers some of the best ballet dancers best Education Systems in the world they dont talk about are very much under him so carlos grow up im not i mean just wanted to really be to be truthful to that and we look at that economic period you know as the special piece was a bit of a tough people trying to escape and rough so we dont try to. Make it a rosy who was just trying to be truthful because his life income was his life obviously you know is wrapped around whats happened in cuba his last 45 years of his life just the Smedley Butler seem. To feel that was just was out to put there and edit it into it because its so startlingly political in what is otherwise a story of aspiration you know something it was hard to defend because. It had quite a few critical critical people on it but the thing is as paul says you cannot understand cuba without the United States so because we are are not only telling cutlasses life cover story we are talking about cuba the United States has been broken in the island for the last 50 or the years. The United States have interfered. In the politics of so many other countries us smoothly which was these in this general area pacifist after his life. In intervene in so many other countries he became a pacifist and he wrote this book which was call what he said wreck it and then to enter the us i mean that was an amazing idea to say ok lets dance something they unite this stays in the race and all over the world all the still valid things and we just go on thats them but there was an amazing character really well known up until very recently he was the most awarded military figure and that entire history unbelievable a marine general Smedley Butler but people dont know his name and its because after he retired he just said ive become a thug i have been i was washed and al capone alcohol only had 3 districts we invaded 3 continents and so this wonderful remarkable man his voice has been silenced and im so glad of that still an issue are very conscious of the fact that your work obviously the very film term when youre always talking about huge geopolitical ideas and then focus from drumming so telling me is that. Were a lot about the script 1st i dont know how you. Already will you us to work for us under god they will ask him and then he asked me and then we both came in as a team well i think that was what was fascinating our cutlasses life story is about carlos is about that cuban dance here in this is about how how he managed to break through and be a super successful one of the best in his generation but also hes cuban and also his life goes parallel to the last 40 years and thats something which where theyre in this 30 i mean carlos his family which is very present in the film lived through the last 40 years of their life in the island and that was fascinating because youre telling the story of an amazing dancer but also the story of this country in the last but it doesnt force a bust there i mean carlos is 2020 when he when hes a hired by there by the English National ballet and then when he comes back to cuba he faces put on the sense that in the economy the soviet union has collapsed 8 cuba has disappeared and they face these special period which was which was the worst time ever in the island so him so he faced that and he censored that he wanted back in cuba and everybody was leaving so we didnt force that into the story that that was actually what actually happened and its the same thing with today carlos mature man who has decided to be part of the press and of his island by creating his company there and thats part of the film as well so hes not in your ear of no he was always connected to cuba he was holding back to cuba he was he never for his roots so all these things were what make this story short tract of so relevant detail and so full of of well this is a great story and it wasnt forced to actually talk about all these things in cuba of course is what happened and what was very nice was actually like some of your question actually was bring in the film back to heaven or you know there was a 5400 people in the car my son. And to see the opening of the film of the festival and there was thousands of say again that issue again and what was remarkable was just defection there for carlos because he has not forgotten his resume to come oh well superstar in the world of dance because never forgotten his roots and he wants to go back to cuba and he wants to contribute and build things there again and i think thats why hes held in such affection just on theres a scene where you really is in a place near here actually looking at Mainstream Media coverage all over cuba why pick that particular clip of where hes looking at it we were just talking about all the people trying to flee well it was but again it goes back to his point when he went back in israel in his early twentys there it coincided with the collapse of the soviet union there was still the embargo beneath states there was great poverty in the country and people were trying to flee you know free and if you know escape and rafts and we just fell with the boat was part of the reality and something that deeply touched them as a cuban see in the pain of these people always was a very important point to train bring in what about this blurring of fiction and reality when ken loach was a large show you talked about your script your break that script was mentioned allows a commons with politicians youre saying this is fiction its not real what is this blurring of fiction in reality in the hugely well. Very good question and because his father was actually born he was the grandson of a slave. That whole experience really marked him he went to work the age of 9 he was brutalized themself and beaten up by a very refined it annoys own father be given a very very rough background and there colors that have all these stories about slavery you know and cuba yeah magine them it was part of his reality too and i think as we have making sense of his father so it didnt go to the actual plantation they decided to dance that because he was absolutely convinced that those are the experiences that made his father such a tough contradictory character so. Although its not literal i would argue its very very truthful play going to make films together again because obviously i understand you both met on carlos well the setting of a spanish civil war movie which obviously was thats not always going to take what. Weve done 3 so far hopefully well do more years ago in the. Film directed by the wonderful ken loach called landon freedom so he got me into a lot of trouble because he introduced me to theater so m. You ever made the 3 films together may when the if she for patients continues she may do another one with us i dont know one better on a. I do. I never think of evidence its never take every day i have very high demand saw i have to join a queue as you as you just said yeah i was land of freedom not close as a regular rug. I know the films already won awards or youve won or words theyre going to take it to one guy dont run as wally or and both of them are all in brazil and all the countries in that numbers fear that may not be so rosy about the victories of jager of our fidel castro i would love to bring it there and perhaps of the had a society where everybody who has over 70 is good talent you know have a chance to go to school and fulfill the talent i would look i would love to see that but when you see mr abbas now just now and in and one of the biggest countries in brazil celebrating an army which just convicted of so much torture and murder and i think it probably didnt get to see some beauty some dance some of my generation and the famous and the subtlety of the human spirit thing i would be brilliant and i would cause for them as well as well on nicaragua with daniel ortega. Thank you both if i. Look good to the guy good to see the would see good to. See. You leave the call us acosta story is in u. K. Cinemas this friday thats it for the show will be played out by singer songwriter natty with his song revolution c. On wednesday to talk last civilizations and colonialist talking all the g. With bestselling author Graham Hancock his nasty with revolution. Been thinking about what you said. Ive been thinking about your plan. To get down by the lake side. So you minds and. All those things you said i 9. Want to take the stand. We talk a lot about me. Back in london. They saw couldnt saw so their faces go. They say your go in the town. But i dont see. Not firing your eyes. When i say oh bowing down. Standing before me is the shadow of. Who dreamed the revolution. I dreamed the revolution. But politicians to do something to. Put themselves on the line. To get accepted or rejected. So when you want to be president im sure. Most somewhat want to be wrestled. To the right to be crossed its like the fall tree in the morning cant be good for. Im interested always in the waters in the hollow. Question. Let me pick up a and give me my best made up with good still is you madam he said. More just that hummus i like a lot of coffee is an awful lot of time i know but im also the most amazing as i can make it was to see if they had them please not i must know when i meet. This company most people almost home piano screaming nobody goes from getting notices continues hes just put to use a whole new truck ok. Someone in the head of the notion that you see him in the middle you have like kind of this. Little kid is he. Always stay in this room that could go back to your list to see him to shoulder us you know normal men because here. I was. The headlines nazis human rights activists warn that cameroon separatist crisis will worsen this lead to the breakaway ring safe life sentence since. The strike is striking parents whose baby daughter was left malnourished by a diet for jail i guess the baby shes raised by the case. Why would you keep bridgeland toy. Probably the best to greece is all this going to be feeding their children healthy diets thank you need supplements you can just read an intriguing downer at. And across russia people are celebrating the countrys National Flag day today including in moscow our own correspondent don quarter is joining in