Transcripts For MSNBC Deadline White House 20241004

Now an extraordinary political moment, the kind that just a few years ago was in the category of hell has frozen over and pigs are flying. Vice president harris will be joined on the Campaign Trail by None Other than Liz Cheney in battleground wisconsin. Their joint Campaign Appearance is fraught with symbolism. Nbc news reports, quote, harris plans to play into that symbolism by recognizing the founding principles of the Republican Party. Thats according to a senior campaign official. Harris will be at the Birth Place of the gop together with Liz Cheney. The democratic president ial nominee and a former Republican Congresswoman, former leader of the republican caucus and the heir to a family whose name is synonymous with what it meant to be a conservative republican speaks to the coalition Vice President harris has assembled. Its unprecedented in modern american politics. Its an incredibly large tent she has assembled that includes former Vice President Dick Cheney and bernie sanders. That coalition is made possible by wanna be autocrat, wants to be Dictator Donald Trump whose violent Coup Attempt was a bridge too far for Liz Cheney and so many other republicans who publicly support Vice President harris. Heres what cheney said before the Oneyear Anniversary of the January 6th insurrection. This is a man who has demonstrated hes willing to blow through the wall of democracy. Any man that would watch television as Police Officers were being beaten and supporters were invading the capitol of the United States is unfit for future office, clearly can never be anywhere near the Oval Office ever again. Unlike Mitch Mcconnell who said trumps conduct was a disgraceful dereliction of duty, or gop primary runner up Nikki Haley who said trump went down a path he shouldnt have and most of the rest of the Republican Party, Liz Cheney has been unwavering in the belief that Donald Trump is unfit for future office, that he would be a threat to the state of our democracy if he ever returned to the White House. The Ex President has done nothing to prove Liz Cheney wrong. In fact hes done the opposite, pledging to pardon the January 6th rioters, to prosecute his political opponents, including Liz Cheney. Hes claimed the 2024 election is rigged if he loses fair and square. If Donald Trump made a Liz Cheney endorsement possible, it is the Harris Campaign who sealed the deal. Liz cheneys Threat Assessment of Donald Trump combined with the existence of a viable alternative, an experienced Vice President whose views when it comes to Americas Place in the world, are firmly in the tradition of previous american president s. Heres how Liz Cheney explained her endorsement of the Vice President last month. You know, the i have never viewed this as a policy election. I think that its a very important point. If you look at Vice President harris speech at the democratic national convention, its a speech that Ronald Reagan could have given, George Bush could have given. Its an Embrace And Understanding of the exceptional nature of this great nation, a love of america, a Recognition America is a great place. When it comes to fundamental alliances, when it comes to the importance of nato for example and how important it is for the United States to lead in the world, weve seen a sea change. We have a Republican Party that is embracing isolationism, embracing putin, that, you know, weve seen just in the last week the republican Vice President ial nominee willing to appear, willing to be interviewed by Tucker Carlson who is platforms pro nazis and pushing pro nazi propaganda. Thats not the party of Ronald Reagan. If youre talking about national security and you care about Americas Leadership Role in the world, a vote for Vice President harris is the right vote to make this time around. Thats where we start with some of our favorite reporters. Msnbc senior analyst Matt Dodd is here. Here at the table New York times Editorial Board Member and Msnbc Analyst Mara gay is here and we have someone at the harris cheney event. I start with you. Tell me what is unfolding right behind you. Reporter good afternoon, nicolle, from rippon, wisconsin, the Birth Place of the Republican Party. Vice president harris is going to be here in just a few hours with Liz Cheney, of course, the former representative that was pushed out of office by former president Donald Trump because she broke with him on the issue of January 6th, saying he was a threat to democracy. The thesis for this event is really emblazed on a large billboard that Everyone in this area can see. It says country over party. Thats the message Vice President harris wants these republican voters to take away from this. She wants to underscore shes reaching out to conservative supporters, former trump supporters. I broke a story that in the last few hours two new ads were featuring a man Named Matthew who was a former trump support, now explaining why hes voting for harris. Its a larger strategy to lean into republican voters. I want to play for you what i heard walking around rippon. I spoke to two men who said they voted for republicans in the past. Take a listen. With the way things went with the last election, the fact that trump didnt admit that he lost, i would definitely say that i am not for any of that. I think trump is destroying the Republican Party. How so . Its gone. You know, its the Maga Party now. Even the republicans are leaving the Republican Party. What do you think of Liz Cheney and harris coming here together . I think thats a good sign. A sign of what . Its a good sign that some republicans are going to vote democrat, even though they disagree with the policies because they just cant get on board with trump. Reporter this is a deep red part of wisconsin, which is a critical battleground state. I talked to a number of former republicans who said they were voting for Kamala Harris who didnt want to go on camera. So the numbers are bigger. There are a lot of people here who say they dont recognize the Republican Party, especially after January 6th. This is part of a bigger campaign by the Harris Campaign to push out and target republican voters. I want to say people are wondering if its this is the first of many. It is. We learned that former gop chair Liz Cheney as well as trump White House aides alyssa farrah, Cassidy Hutchinson will be getting together in pennsylvania to do a fire side chat, all republican women who worked for Donald Trump. Well see more of this as the election gets nearer. Matt dodd, jump in on that excellent reporting and interviews about this dynamic of republicans who are telling journalists and maybe pollsters as well what we heard liz articulate in that interview with Jon Karl on abc that for her its not necessarily a policy election, but about the future of the democracy. Talk about how that sort of changes or improves the coalition that Vice President harris needs to prevail. Reporter sure. I want to put an emphasis on the historical nature of this. The Republican Party was formed there in 1854 because the people that were antislavery had no room left, no place left in their own party and had to start another party against at that time the democrats and the nonothing party. Theres so many republicans that felt no home anywhere and basically were doing Something Brand new like the republicans in 1854 and helping the opposing party. This is akin to Barry Goldwater after the election working in the administration of lbj. Thats what this is akin to, a Die Hard Conservative going to work for somebody that they were opposed to. As i watch this unfold, theres three things i think that are strategically important. One weve had this conversation all these sort of things send a signal, a Permission Structure to independents that says the Vice President Vice President harris is not somebody you need to be afraid of. Shes not so radical shell go off the deep end. Liz cheney gives those independents a path to vote for her. The other thing are soft republicans who may think its a bridge too far to vote for the Vice President , but actually may, because of this, skip the top of the ticket, not vote for they dont like Donald Trump. They want to vote for a republican, but maybe its too far of a bridge to take to vote for the Vice President. This may give them a chance to say you can skip the top of the ticket. The other thing that hasnt been talked about enough in 2016 and 2020 we talked about the hidden Trump Vote that was not captured by polls in The End. There were one or two points that people were reluctant to say they were supporting him and voted for him. I believe that hidden vote this time is the Vice President harris vote, that republicans who are reluctant to tell somebody on the Phone Theyll Vote for a democrat because theyve voted republican their entire life, now in the confines of the ballot blindly where nobody knows about it will vote for her. For me, the odds are the hidden vote this time is harris republican votes, not Donald Trump vote. Matt dodd, i had that theory ahead of the midterms there was a hidden Roe Vote and it wasnt just women. There are some men who are indifferent to the decisions a woman makes. There are many men who are husbands and fathers and sons who are invested in a woman having access to safe options in the occasion of an unwanted or unviable pregnancy. I would like you to say a little bit more about the men because i feel like the toxic masculine appeal of Trump And Vance get a lot of press, but the possibility that there are a whole bunch of male voters out there who arent feeling seen or spoken to in our analysis seems viable as well. Reporter im glad you brought this up. Theres this whole conversation in the Maga World calling any of us that are compassionate or care about other people are beta. No matter if we go hunting, drive a truck, live in texas, were beta because we believe in helping other people in the course of this. I think theres a number of men in this country that dont want to be defined in the way that maga defines them. They obviously want to be perceived as strong and courageous and brave and willing to take chances, but they care about their fellow human beings. They care about their wives and daughters, the women in their community. As youre right to say, there was a hidden Roe Vote and it showed up in that referendum in kansas where Out Of The Blue it was overwhelmingly in support of prochoice. It showed up in state after state after state in key races in 2022 and in special elections where the Polling Underreported what was about to happen. I think it caught women in that polling, but what it didnt catch was men who on that day said, you know, all this conversation about whos a man and whos not a man and whos strong and whos weak, actually the strongest men support the strong women in their life. I think thats what you saw show up. Let me show you how the Harris Campaign is communicating with these voters in their paid advertising. I cant go to Work And Mess up something and then blame my staff. Who does that . Who does that . Donald trump does that. I voted for Donald Trump and went to his inauguration in 2016. We tried it for four years and it didnt work. Im a life long republican. Im still a republican. Kamala is trying to help The American people, especially the middle class. I think shell do a great job for people like me. Im Kamala Harris and i approve this message. If you came from Outer Space and landed here and saw that ad, you would be like whats going on . Its amazing. Its interesting were looking at these male voters who are republicans who are saying enough. This isnt about strength. Its about not wanting to be completely insane and live in a world of chaos. Because j. D. Vance the other night really did his best to Launder Trumpism as something that is normal and has a soft face and is perfectly respectable. You know, its funny we talk about the politics of respectability in a different context. J. D. Vance is doing his best to bring Respectability Back to maga politics. As long as you have republican voters, especially white men, and folks like Liz Cheney to come along and say, this isnt normal. Its not acceptable. I may disagree with Kamala Harris and Tim Walz on every issue except for The One that matters, which is democracy, which is supporting rights of other americans, then this is not something thats acceptable to me. I think Liz Cheney, as a truth teller, is especially important because as long as shes out there telling the truth, it becomes much harder to normalize trumpism. Shes also done something that i actually think is secondary in this case, but of interest to me certainly and has possibilities for political organizing in the future, which is she has in embracing Kamala Harris, a black and South Asian woman, she has finally given the modern republican Partys Seal of patriotism, not only to her political opponent, but to Black Americans. That really isnt something that we required as americans, the validation of, but unfortunately its something that has been withheld for decades. When you think about the future of political coalitions, its important that americans view one another as neighbors rather than enemies and she has done such an important service in that in saying, actually, yes, Black Americans can be patriots too. I recognize that in Kamala Harris and im going to stand with her, even though we disagree on so much, because we all support democracy. That sends a message. Such a profound point. I have A Million reactions to it, but i mostly its so overdue. I wonder how much of this is just the art of the Harris Campaigns ability to show and not say. I mean, so much of this is letting the Event Speak for itself, letting the place speak for itself, letting journalists like you walk around and find what those two men said. I wonder how much of this is not wanting to be seen by their neighbors as supporting Kamala Harris, how much of that is if they were men feeling like the dynamic that Matt Dodd described is too prevalent. They dont want to be public about their vote, but Theyll Vote for harris. I wonder if you can say more about the folks not willing to put their Face And Name on their vote for Kamala Harris. Reporter i think you hit on it. I ran into this one couple that was really interesting here in rippon. It was a husband who said hes had political differences with his wife for the entire 40 years of their marriage. They never agreed on anything until Donald Trump came in and in 2016 that husband, who had been voting republican and the wife was voting democrat along with their children, hes now voting democrat because of that. He told me he feels like former President Trump destroyed the Republican Party that he loved so much. He said that he didnt want to go on camera. His wife was like, lets do this. He didnt want to show his face. He told me theres a lot of people like him that are silent harris voters. He feels like thats why shell win this state. He believed she would also win the presidency because theres this quietness in the Republican Party of people who voted for reagan, who voted for bush and had real Policy Differences but see Donald Trump as a threat to democracy and believe in voting for Vice President harris theyre putting country over party, which is the thesis of what Vice President harris is telling Swing Voters in this last month who shes trying to bring over to her side. The other thing thats interesting, when you talk about show and not tell, i hear this from voters. They feel like shes showing them someone who is all parts of america. I was talking to that man we put on tv who had a marine shirt on, a close cut hair cut, maybe you think he doesnt have a lot in common with the Vice President. He said i see myself in her because she talks about her mother, she started in the middle chase and worked her way up. That man who was a white, male, marine corp. American said he sees himself in her. Theyre saying, i hear you when you talk about your mother, i hear you when you say you went to a historically black college, i hear you when you talk about the middle class. That cuts across not just race and gender. Shes hoping more voters think like that marine corp. Veteran who said hes voted for republicans, but said January 6th means he could not ever cast a ballot for Vice President for former President Trump. So interesting. I mean, it goes to everything the campaign is doing strategically, why they want another debate, because when people see her it works and her numbers go up. It also shows why trump doesnt want to share a stage with her because his numbers go down. Thank you so much for your reporting. Matt and Mara Stick around. If theres one lesson from the trump White House era, its this. It is always and was always so much worse than any of us on the outside ever understood. The Shear Volume of incriminating new material contained in the pages of Jack Smiths latest January 6th related filing paints the most depraved picture yet of a man in Donald Trump who would do anything and say anything, including making things up, to cling to power. Now hes, of course, running for president again. Our friend Andrew Weissmann joins the table. On the topic of the Department'>Justice Department, a dire new warning from those with the authority to provide it on what exactly the disgraced Ex President could and would do to target his enemies. All those stories and more when deadline White House continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Shared all over the wo rld. Emergenc Crystals Pop and fizz when you throw them back. And who doesnt love a good throwback . Now with Vitamin D for the dark days of winter. Why choose a mobile network now with Vitamin D built for places youll probably never be. Instead of for where you are most of the time . Xfinity mobile was designed for where you need it most. Xfinity internet customers, ask how to get a free 5g Phone and a second unlimited line free for a year. New projects means new project managers. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. When you sponsor a job on indeed, its easier for talented candidates to find it. Which makes it easier for you to hire them. Visit indeed. Com hire i have a confession to make. Im a life long republican. So i feel a little out of place tonight, but i feel more at home here than in todays Republican Party. [ cheers and applause ] the grand old party has been kidnapped by extremists and devolved into a cult, the cult of Donald Trump. I blame something about my party too, something i couldnt ignore. The Republican Party is no longer conservative. It has switched its allegiance from the principles that gave it purpose to a man whose only purpose is himself. Donald trump is a weak man pretending to be strong. He is a small man pretending to be big. Hes a faithless man pretending to be righteous. Hes a perpetrator who cant stop playing the victim. Let me be clear to my republican friends at home watching, if you vote for Kamala Harris in 2024, youre not a democrat. Youre a patriot. Were back with matt and mara. Matt dodd, i want to come to you on this point of fraud. Mara said j. D. Vance was respectable. He was. It was smooth. It was a talented mr. Ripley because he stands on the stage because the last person who ran with Donald Trump was essentially, you know, left to fend for himself in his own Security And Safety as well as his familys on January 6th while trump supporters chanted hang Mike Pence. I wonder how much of that is understood which voters, that these republicans arent on the stage because Vice President harris moderated herself. Theyre on the stage because shes the only, in the words of former lieutenant governor duncan, shes the only patriot on the ball. Reporter you know what, it reminded me of his performance i say his performance because it was reported that it was a strategic move they made in order to seem normal he was going to act normal because they knew he wasnt normal. That was their strategy. They announced that we know were not normal, but were going to act it for this Twohour Period and well do Something Else. What he reminds me of is a used Car Salesman whose Wife Or Girlfriend says, hey, you can keep doing what youre doing, just ditch the polyester suits, but keep doing what youre doing. Get rid of all the bad stuff. Thats what he was. To me i know weve talked about this. I thought it was beared out in the polls in the aftermath, for all of vances laying aside his weirdness and trying to act it, the person that came across as the regular guy was Governor Walz and the polls beared that out. Yes, he was nervous. Yes, it was a big under the spotlight thing. He came across as a regular guy who doesnt always say it right, but hes there helping you, supporting you, doing what you need in the course of this. Vance comes across as the guy whos willing to say whatever he can in order to sell you the car that, once you drive it off the lot, the wheels fall off. Thats what the debate was. I mean, i guess im getting at how much are we in a post performative political moment . The Trump Voters taught us they know all this stuff about trump, but theyre with him anyway. Its all performative on the right. I wonder how you think how that changes how we should talk about political events and the things we see, things beamed into our Living Rooms . Its interesting. I think that j. D. Vance put on the performance that he needed to and that was meant to appeal to some slices of america we dont always talk about. For example, i believe theres a crisis among some men in the United States and i think, even people who maybe arent traditional republicans but are listening to folks like Joe Rogan who we found out today theres more support for trump among men who are divorced. Theres a certain appeal that j. D. Vance is crafting. We should make no mistake that performance We Saw was informed by think tanks. By data for sure. By data and also by his, you know, kind of performance that you learn how to do when you go to an ivy league university. Yes, he was polished. Yes, he was practiced. Also, just the appeal to evangelicals was clear, the softness of it. Youre listening to this softness and hes trying to be polite to Governor Walz and friendly and neighborly even. All the while, as a woman im thinking, i have heard this men talk about women like dogs. Its hard to kind of square those two things, but it just shows you how much work is required for every day voters to really get the full picture of what is going on before they reach the ballot box, especially in an environment unfortunately where local news has been decimated. People are getting things on tiktok feeds, facebook feeds. Theres really some work, some civic work thats required to give voters the full sense of whats going on and why. So, you know, its up to the campaigns to do a lot of that work. Matt dodd, real quick, how sort of optimistic are you . I think the other side of that is people are pretty a lot of people are pretty good consumers of what theyre seeing. Do you have faith thats the case . Do you worry about this packaging . Wheres your head on that . Reporter ill have more faith on november 6th. I mean, i do. I actually think Donald Trump has tried our souls and people have come to that conclusion in the course of this. Were still a divided country. For all the things we talked about prior to this, i think people in The End people are saying i cant do this. I voted for him once, twice, but im not going to do this. Many are unwilling to say this. I got to be friends with a father and his adult son in michigan who whispered to me, im going to vote for harris, but i cant tell anybody because its going to be bad for me where i work because i live in a very red area. I think youre exactly right, in this moment when candidates lie like vance lies throughout the debate and Donald Trump lies throughout the debate and i think we have to come up with a different mode where its corrected and done in real time. We depend on the moderators, but ive often thought remember Mystery Science Theater where they ran a bad movie and guys would comment on the stupid stuff in the movie . We need to cover debates where were commenting during the midst of the debate. Every single Sporting Event, which is the most watched live content that exists anywhere in the world, every Sporting Event is covered live by Realtime Commentators while the game is going on. Maybe well get you around the table, Matt Dodd, and figure it out. Thank you for being here. Up next for us, the breaking News Story we brought you yesterday, Andrew Weissmann will tell us everything hes learned since getting through the entire Bombshell Filing from Jack Smith. Thats next. We planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. You think those two have any idea . That they can sell their Life Insurance Policy for cash . So theyre basically sitting on a goldmine . I dont think they have a clue. Thats crazy well, not Everyone knows coventrys helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. Even term policies. I cant believe theyre just sitting up there sitting on all this cash. If you own a Life Insurance Policy of 100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. Even a Term Policy. For cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. Someone needs to tell them, that theyre sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea hey, guys youre sitting on a goldmine come on, guys do you hear that . I dont hear anything anymore. Find out if youre sitting on a goldmine. Call Coventry Direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect. Com. Why did you come here . Because President Trump told us we had something big to look forward to and i believe Vice President pence was going to certify the electoral votes and or not certify them. I guess that changed, correct . Its a very big disappointment. Theres several hundred thousand people here that are very disappointed. I still believe President Trump has Something Else left. Still haunting, right . We now know thanks to special counsel Jack Smiths expansive and unsealed filing of evidence that this is exactly what Donald Trump was watching when he hit send on that 2 24 p. M. Tweet attacking Vice President Mike Pence and fueling the deadly insurrection. According to filing, the Ex President was even raptured by his supporters attacking the capitol. Quote, the defendant sat in the Dining Room where he used his phone to look at twitter and watch the television displaying News Coverage of the riot at the capitol. Just how desperate he was to cling to power, a white House Staffer heard the Ex President tell a family member, quote, it doesnt matter if you won or lost the election. You still have to fight like hell. Joining the table former top prosecutor for the Department of justice, msnbc legal analyst Andrew Weissmann. Its been 24 hours. The case he put together jumps off the page as devastating. Absolutely. Few things, one, the comment from the former president that this is Election Interference, its worth remembering the reason this brief was filed was because Donald Trump prevailed in the Supreme Court And The supreme court told the District Judge, you have to hear from the parties, look at the facts and specifically look at the context of all the evidence and decide what is official and immune and what is unofficial as a candidate and thus can go to trial. The brief, all of this, is because Donald Trump appealed, won and now the District Judge is doing what the supreme court said. Hes always been a terrible winner. Hes the only politician ive ever covered who wins and is more mad. And this brief said hes a terrible loser in that the amount of proof and the difference between this brief and the January 6th hearings is the amount of direct proof with people in the room with him up to and including Mike Pence is voluminous, even when you take out, as the supreme court required, all the Department of justice evidence, things that the supreme court said cannot be considered. Theres so much proof here of somebody who knew he lost, who didnt who said to people, i dont care that i lost. Im still going to go forward. And then with respect to the clip that you just played, threatened Mike Pence in terms saying, you know, if you continue with your view that youre not going to help me, im going to essentially sic the mob on you. The response has been wildly reported, when he was told thats what happened, he said, so what . The picture of Donald Trump as such a deeply flawed human that is willing to do all this, including to his own Vice President , is something thats very hard, even as a psychological matter, to understand the makeup of that. That you would turn to your Vice President who is saying i cant do this because the constitution doesnt allow it, you would turn to that person and say i am going to threaten you. When you actually are threatened, im not going to do anything. Thats to somebody whos been loyal to him for that long. Tell me how much you learned from pences testimony. Because it feels like that is the biggest bucket of new content that we have in here, but that even in that bucket there are clearly notes. There are clearly meetings. There are the meetings that pences staffers, people like mr. Short and mr. Jacobs were in, there were a lot of oneonone meetings. If you add that to the timeline, it deepens our understanding of trumps pressure campaign. Just in terms of corroboration, its not just Mike Pence. You have his notes that are referenced. As you said, there are people around him to say because he reached out to all sorts of peep and talked to them. We know, for instance, that after Donald Trump threatened him, that his people reported that to secret service. They understood very well what would happen, and they were right that that was needed. One of the things that i found is that knowledge not just on trumps part, but on Pences Part of the likelihood of violence . Absolutely. They understood that that is what was going to happen because of what Donald Trump did and Donald Trump understood it. That was why he was threatening him. He wanted to use it to his advantage. Remember, this was his Last Gasp at trying to stay in office. All of this for power that he was not entitled to. This goes back to the discussion you were having which is you read this submission and it is impossible to think that we havent had a true Existential Crisis in this country. The idea that this is somebody doing so well running for office when you sit there and think how can people not read this . The only thing i was thinking when you were talking in the prior segment is for people who are enablers to call them out, to really for the people whether its newspapers this show has you cover it well. Newspapers, politicians, corporations that are trying to hedge their bets and giving money to both sides, you need to say, are you reading what this is and what this means for america . I have to sneak in a break. I want to drill down on how much new evidence we have about his willingness to make things up. There are kids and families in springfield, ohio, living under the burden of that. There are theres a new body of reporting in the New York times about how he wants to politicize the doj. Its not just telling them who to target. This filing makes clear hell make things up about anything. I have to sneak in a quick break. Well be right back. Break. Well be right back. New projects means new project managers. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. When you sponsor a job on indeed, its easier for talented candidates to find it. Which makes it easier for you to hire them. Visit indeed. Com hire from this new Jack Smith filing, when person nine reiterated to the defendant that they would be unable to prove his false fraud allegations in court, the defendant Donald Trump responded, quote, the details dont matter. When a Voting Machine Company was able to prove the falsity of statements, they got almost 1 million. Why doesnt the country have more recourse . The mistake when youre lying is when it affects a Person Or Company and thats why you have Ruby Freeman and shaye moss. You have e. Jean carroll. You have dominion being able to recover. When it comes to politics, the courts are like the public Market Place will take care of it. Its a huge anomaly because were all damaged by that. To your point, i was looking through the brief, one of the things that Jack Smith recites in hard facts, this cannot be disputed, its in black and white, in talking about litigation thats brought, they recount how the numbers kept changing. Oh, theyre dead voters. One day its 130,000, next day its 150,000. They make it up. People are saying we cant sign off on this. Its not true. One person reports this is they use a curse word, nuts. It still goes in. These are these fake filings. I love the you can let it fly here. Others dont do that. This idea of the brazenness with which they lie is something that the something that the courts are still reckoning with, right . The media is still reckoning with you, but something the Trump Voter has totally made peace with, some that Tim Snyder explained to me. In russia, they know theyre being lied to, its just part of the puzzle, its amazing thats been imported here. Right. You see it, too, in christian nationalism. Well, The Ends justify the means, trump is this angel, all politicians are corrupt anyway, hes just our corrupt guy. Right. So the question is whether our institutions, as you said, nicolle, including generalists know how to properly handle that, while continuing to do our jobse ecly. One of the questions i had for andrew is, how you think this supreme court may look at this filing. Do you think this shifts any views . Well, we were talking about Off Air The Supreme Court on this issue was fully 54. Amy Coney Barrett in her concurrence actually said she was not on board with the idea that sort of the state Election Interference is a hard issue. She said this can be hard issue separating what a president is doing from a candidate, this allegation, not hard. That is 54. So, the issue is whether roberts or kavanaugh or both will say, you know what . This sets forth enough information that is, in fact, as a candidate. This hope springs eternal. Its such a strong brief that i think they will. On the other hand, i didnt think the Immunity Decision would come out the way it did. Always a gateway to despair for nicolle. [ laughter ] in covering the supreme court, its proven useful. Thank you so much. To be continued. After the break, what a judge said to an Excounty Clerk who took extraordinary length to help Trump Advance claims that were fraud. Help Trump Advance claims that were fraud you the man actually, hes a box. Cologuard is a oneofakind way to screen for Colon Cancer thats effective and noninvasive. Its for people 45 at average risk, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your provider for cologuard. I did it my way do you have a Life Insurance Policy you no longer need . 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Tina peter, the former Colorado County Clerk convicted of orchestrating a Security Breach of her own Election Computer System in 2020, in service of the lies spread by Donald Trump and his allies over vote fraud, was sentenced to nine year behind bars. Peters, who continue to say promote the lies that Voting Machines were manipulated to steal the election from Donald Trump, facing hard trusting from the judge this afternoon. Youre a Charlatan Who Peddle a Snake Oil thats been proven to be junk time and time again. No one in this country has absolute power, your position does not provide you with a means by which to do your own investigation, to not listen to the judiciary, to not listen to the executives higher than you, to not listen to the legislature that sets the law as it may be. This is nonsense. Our system of Government Cant Function when people in government think that somehow someway the Power Theyve been given is absolute in all respects. The judge went on to say based on the seriousness of her crimes and the damage they caused to trust in voting, quote, prison is the only place for peters. She was taken into custody to begin serving her sentence immediately. Another new warning on what the ex. Could do to target his enemies using the Department of justice. Dont go away. Justice. Dont go away. Speaker my little miracle is beckett. [christina perri, A Thousand years] i have died every day waiting for you. We wouldnt be where we are without saint jude. And in turn, we wouldnt be where we are without those people that have donated. If you have this. Consider adding this. An Aarp Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan from unitedhealthcare. Medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesnt. And let you see any doctor. Any specialist. Anywhere in the u. S. Who accepts medicare patients. So if you have this. Consider adding this. Call Unitedhealthcare Today for your free decision guide. man look at this silly little sailboat. For your free decision guide. These men of means with their silver spoons, eating up the financial favors of the 1 . What would become of them when they discover robinhood gold allows others to earn their very liberal rates on idle cash, unlimited Deposit Bonuses and handsome Retirement Matching . They would descend into chaos. Merciless chaos. Weve become accustomed to sort of being able to rely on our republic surviving, and so it can become very difficult. I hear people on the right saying, youre exaggerating this threat, and i think thats when i said sleepwalking into a dictatorship is not really understanding and recognizing how dangerous it would be, for example, to have a president who was unwilling to enforce the rulings of the courts. He said, if i dont agree with the court, im going to ignore those rulings. Thats The End of the constitutional republic. His again, Everyone. Its 5 00 in New York. Liz cheney, one hour from right now, will be on the Campaign Trail, on stage with the democratic president ial nominee, who may be one of the most noteworthy voice, but shes farther from the only one sounding the alarm, thanks to the Harris Campaign. According to a new survey by the New York times magazine that spoke with 50 officials, most of them would agree that cheney is not, exaggerating. From New York times, an overwhelming majority of our respondents told us that they are alarmed about trumps potential impact on the Department'>Justice Department. 42 of the 50 former officials said at the very likely or likely that a second Trump Term would pose a significant threat to the norm of Keeping Criminal Enforcement free from White House influence. 39 of the respondents said it was likely or very likely, if reelected, Donald Trump would follow through on ordering the Department'>Justice Department to conduct a specific investigation. You may be think i people around him will say stop, dont do that, that people wont let things get that bad, right . Its not that simple, especially not this time. According to peter casaler, things dont go from beautiful to ugly in one step. So, they tell themselves the president has been elected and theyre supposed to help him do the job as he defines it, end quote, mean the garrails we rely on to keep an Autowant Abe in check is only as strong as the people charged with contrary things out if. If he wanted to, he could weaponize the Department'>Justice Department. They list the steps he could take, all within the limits of president ial power, which is massive. One, point loyalists. Two, open investigations. Three, route cases to favorable judges. Four, peal adverse rulings eventually to the supreme court. And five, the president ial pardon power. This manipulation could have farreaching consequences. The times write if the public comes to see the Department'>Justice Department as compromised, will witnesses and nants continue to cooperate . Will jurors and Judges Crust prosecutors in court . A president ms. Using the law can rin lives and shake the sum to its core. Joining us is former member of the January 6th select commit yes Zoe Lofgren is with us. Protect Democracy Executive Director Ian Bass is here, and vaughn hillyard, and former assistant u. S. Attorney, now the president of a Leadership Conference on civil and human rights, Maya Wiley is here. Congresswoman, i want to start with you. You and other members of the January 6th select committee have been publicly targeted, threatened or warned that trump is conditions ugh for you. I wonder, as the polls appear close have you done anything to prepare for that . Have you retained counsel or updated your passport . No, i havent. If you look at the constitution theres only one mention of immunity. Thats for members of congress in their official capacity. We may not be held to answer at any other place. So, assuming under a second Trump Administration that there would still be a Court System and the Rule Of Law, which may not be a valid assumption, theres no way that the members of the January 6th committee could be held to account in any other place for our work on that committee. So, Do You Tang take him seriously when they threatens folks like yourself . Oh, i do take him seriously, but Hes Someone i doubt hes ever read the constitution. Certainly hes unaware of the constraints within it. I think he means what he says. Whether he could actually accomplish it is Something Else again. This is the second story in New York times about trumps specific plans to use doj to prosecutor his enemies. I wonder what you think about this focus. Jeff berman wrote in his book he was specifically directed to open investigations into perceived political allies of Donald Trump. Michael cohen was sent to jail because he was writing a book. John bolton had his book restrained from being published for a while. John durham ran an investigation longer than mueller did, and ensnared many people. Even though you didnt are the optics of people in jail, lives were ruined. Jim Comey And Andy mccabe were subjected to audits of the i. R. S. , the most invasive that it offers on its menu. It all happened already. I wonder about your thoughts with this new body of reporting. Theres a lot of very dangerous and scary things that trump is proposes to do if returned to power, in project like project 2025. Two reasons. One, leaders who weaponize Law Enforcement and the regulatory state to go after their perceived opponents do that in order to scare any other people from criticizing them or opposing them political or standing in their way for the request for absolute powers. This is what leaders like Victor Orban or Vladimir Putin do, and trump admires those people. If you use this playbook, you can entrench yourself in power permanently. The second reason its so disturbing, it cuts to the core of what freedom is. What is freedom . Its the feeling we all have that we can walk around in our daily lives, speak freely, compete in the marketplace, associate who we want, without fear that the government will come and prosecutor us and take us away from our lives and families, not because weve done something wrong, but because they dont like what were saying, or who our friends are, or what we look like, or where our parents or grandparents came from. Donald trump is threatening to take away that freedom. Thats a definition of tyranny. Hes playing on the fact that people understand that our system is not perfect. We never had the ideal of people being treated under law. We do have a different set of laws or the application of law for the rich and powerful from the other people. If anything, Donald Trump has benefited from that, but weve tried to improve it, now destroy it. Donald trump is like the quack doctor here, offering blood letting, but that kills the patient and would kill our Bobby Politic here. So 30 days ahead of the election, what determines if we become that. I youve used the second person in two days to use that word on this program. What is the best way to disavow a public from wanting that . I mean the founder basically said it in the first three words of the constitution We The People. Every other checked that should have stopped us from getting to this point has been overridding, which gives you a sense of how real the potential that Donald Trump could destroy our democracy of the United States, but the last check is The One we all hold. Ultimately we are the sovereigns. We get a chance to actually protect selfgovernment. I think its great youre covering there, New York times has covered there, and others are covering it. People are saying this is not getting enough attention and the country is not taking it seriously enough. Vaughn hillyard, you tell me because youve covered him all the year, but one of the differences from where we sit, we live and die from investigative stories, two that were filed in the times or the post, and if they came out when they were on the air, thats what we learned what he was doing. You were all hearing about it from your sources. This time hes saying this stuff on the trail. Let me show you. You say they weaponize the Department'>Justice Department. Yeah. Would you do the same if youre reelected . Well, hes unleashed something we have all known about this for A Hundred years. Weve watched other countries do it, in some case effective. In other cases totally ineffective. Its not unique, but unique for the United States. Yeah, they do it this, and they have already done it. If they want to follow through on this, yeah, it could certainly happen in reverse. What they have done is they have released the genie out of the box. If i happen to be president and i see somebody doing well and beating me very badly, i say go down and indict them, mostly that would be they would be out of business. They would be out of the election. Look, when this election is over, based on what they have done, i would have every right to go after them. She and her party are censoring speech, weaponizing the justice system, trying to throw their political opponents, me, in jail. They always have to remember, two can play the game. Of course, thats not all thats happening. He committed crimes, and many witnesses testified against him. What is sort much the state of this it feels like this is back to the top of the list of his priorities in peak with the filing yesterday. Im played you played that last bight, two can play the game, it was at a club with top executives, Hedge Fund guys. This is a place where he said in front of that crowd those words. I looked around the room, hes not hiding it. Hes not only telling The American public, but some of these Money Fuddlers to his campaign and individuals he will rely on in an administration exactly his game plan. A couple points off of this. Number one, Donald Trump halls very little tolerance these days for anybody on his campaign or any alies that are not surge essentially yes me. We saw him go through secretaries of state, and jeff sessions, he went out the door. Jeffrey clark, who is another close ally, Donald Trump looked to potential appoint him as acting Attorney General, he said this idea that the Attorney General and doj is supposed to be independent of the White House, that thats a misnomer. The Department of justice falls within the executive branch. Therefore, Donald Trump should be able to direct its attorney and the Department of justice to go into the president , as the chief executive, as he sees fits. This is his allies explicitly saying this. When you listen to his words, and what Donald Trump says, weve talked about the certification process, if it werent for some key governors and secretaries, that sim may have fallen in 2024. When you look at what the next administration could look like, not even getting a confirm in Attorney General in year one, but an acting Attorney General that can appointed Career Prosecutors to do his bidding. They could bring a Conspiracy Lawsuit out of a place in texas or florida, more potentially favorable, and bring the indictments that can do damage. Doesnt even bring a conviction necessarily, and i think thats where its prudent for the public to listen. Maya wily, to pick up on vaughns point, he said this in front of a room of people, nobody walked out. What nobody said, what does it look like. The complicity of the enablers to me is one of the most difficult stories to get at. The idea that would be good for the economy if america turns into an autocracy, Act Viktor orbans peek. Because trump is both shallow and ought on crattic, it could be some Executive Daughter that retweets a story, and that company could be targeted on Social Media immediately. The nature of this is so precarious. One of the things that so important to recognize is what We The People do, as ian said, the pressure we bring to bear, including on corporations, including on powerful people who need to understand that there is absolutely a shared interest, but also a cost, because one of the things that Donald Trump has done and his minions and i call them minions when Stephen Miller is sending threatening letters to corporations about being more inclusive, trying to address whether were invested sufficiently in small businesses, in having programs that say we support peoples gender identity, whatever that is, that weaponization is just as much a part of this and of trumpism, and what theyre responding to is whether we, the people, are determining and stating what our principles, values and future of the country means. Thats what most people want. So, there is a way to talk about it in perspective. Who are you accountable to . Whether its corporations or politicians, youre only accountable to the people who are feeding you, either feeding you their votes or feeding you by purchasing your products, or invests in your investment tools. I want to go even a bit deeper. I think vaughns points are so important, ians, but lets go even deeper to what it represents. When we say this isnt new in this country, when ian says weve never been perfect, lets talk about what it means that an fbi under Herbert Hoover decided to use counterintelligence measures to not only in some instances caused the death of black activists, but to incite violence between groups. The exact antithesis of investigating or understanding whether a crime has been committed, and all of that was political. That was about political viewpoint, and the viewpoints you liked, and the viewpoints you didnt. Its not even just the Department of justice in the way were talking about it, its the weaponization of the power to destroy peoples lives that Law Enforcement within the federal government has been utilized in the past. We learned some of our lesson. We eliminated that. Donald trump has been very explicitist explicit about your the criminal system as a sword against voters, rather than a shield to protect voters. This is so practical and basic, and part of what weft to is now just his opponents that look powerful, like a big corporation or a rich individual, its every last one of us. Congresswoman, the effort of protecting the country from Donald Trump seems to balloon with every revelation, and with every speech he gives, to vaughns point, to all sorts of supporters and groups. The committee revealed what he did last time. I wonder what the effort behind the scenes in congress is to prevent what he might do. We have a project 2025 group it was good to see Liz Cheney at the top of the hour. We took the lead to reform the electoral act, to protect some more protections. The Vice President presiding at that will be Kamala Harris, not Jd Vance, but, in fact, you know, if trump is reelected, chances are we will not have the majority, the democrats, in the house either. So this is going to be a situation where he, as a bully, will get his way. I do think one of the phenomenon thats interesting is he says these things out loud. A certain segment of the population seems to react, if he saying it outloud, it must be okay. Its a shocking proposal that hes making in so many ways, but some people are not taking it seriously, or they think it must be okay or it would be hiding. Some people i talk to a supporter of mine just recently, who was also a trump supporter, and said he finds trump very entertaining. I thought, gosh, how entertaining is it to threaten the Rule Of Law, to threaten to round up people who are undocumented and take them away from their american citizen spouses and children. I dont find that entertaining, but i think theres a segment of voters that do. Well have much more to get to with our pan on what the congresswoman has laid out, as well as the very real fierce among top officials that trump will use the laws to prosecutor his enemies. The exemsays he will revoke the status for haitian people living in springfield. One of vances classmates will be here later. Were inching closer to the really in wisconsin with Vice President harris, and former congresscom Liz Cheney. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Ouse continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Toughest jobs. Just scrape, load and youre done. Switch to cascade platinum plus. Vo Restaurant bread. Stale policies. No cheddar. Cheddar bay 2024 is here to clean up the crumbs. 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Thats according to a former assistant Attorney General for obama. Thats the most remarkable thing about the supreme courts decision. Take this body of reporting and youre knowledge of what trump tried thought last time, and lay over the supreme courts decision. Its not just the supreme courts decision. Its also the fact that what got even mildly in the way Last Mike was that trumps own lawyers and staff tried to stop him from investigating and prosecuting some people based on whim. He still managed to do it to multiple people. That was with people inside trying to stop him. What project 2025 is about is inventing a bunch of shock troops, to be put in, who will be loyalists who will not stand in the way of trump. This is why we need to take is so seriously this time. On top of that, he has the protect of the supreme court. Something that maya said is really important here, this doesnt just matter to those officials that trump has named as people he wants to go off. If youre thinking im not hillary clinton, im not jim comey, heres why it matters. When the chief Law Enforcement officer in the land engages in corruption and corruptly used Law Enforcement to go after them, that Rock Trickles down. You see he that all over the world. In regimes corrupt at the top, eventually the local prosecutors, they get the sense they can use it to go after people in their neighborhood they may not like. The people who are handing out terrific citizens start to ask for a bribe, or maybe you need a billing permit, but you have to pay something on the side. That corruption affects the entire society, and it affects Everyone within them. As maya pointed out, this doesnt matter solely to the political officials that Donald Trump has named. This is something thats going to come home to roost if we let it take hold. Maya. Hes talk about whats happening in texas right now. In texas, the Attorney General is weaponizing his ability to send Search Warrants to organizations who are helping to educate voters on how to vote on the border. People who are citizen, can lawfully vogt, and who are citizens. An instance, an 87yearold woman who works for one of the oldest organization, legal activity, intimidated by the use of the criminal process of investigation. Now, imagine that being weaponized by the fbi. This is going after notforprofit organizations. You can imagine a world in which its undermining a very important system to us of notforprofit organizations that do all kinds of community good, including were making sure were building relationships between communities, like springfield, ohio, where you have haitian immigrants, here with status, but for home, even the lies about who they are and what they might be doing has both put them in harms way, where theyre getting desperate in some instances, rape threats simply because theyre haitian and theyre here. Bomb threats. Bomb threats, but the role these organizations that play, who are notforprofiting, where you can reppize the i. R. S. Against them, where you can claim theyre doing things they shouldnt be doing, because you dont like who theyre working with, on or what theyre saying or what their values are, even though theyre within the bounds of the law. That impacts every community. The most important thing to recognize here is exactly why the power of the people matters so much. The more were ensuring we have each others back, that were making sure Everyone is educated to vote, that every vote will count, because were all working to make sure they count, when people show up to threaten you, well stand across communities. Heron Helene Hits appear. Lashi and its the foundational point of what makes a multiracial democracy work, that we have these institutions and connections. Protecting them is also protecting ordinary people, and its exactly why we have coalition, and exactly what we need to do now more than ever, protect each other. Trump doesnt even understand the state is separate from him. You know, my generals, my this, my that. Just from your perch, how you have watched, our if you watched his language as his role as a potential president and the stage has shifted. Thats a good question. Go back real fast to the Republican National Convention back in 2016 on the floor he said i alone can fix it. That was the first ethos of the authoritarian, i am, you know, The Strong Man ethos. If you fast forward that to where we are now, theres a belief that frankly the Republican Party has built up around him, as the judge sentenced peters, its people like Tina Peters who have lifted Donald Trump and built him a foundation here at this point to go about this style of politics, and where hes going to make the overtures to people, and make the case, if i was in charge of the Hurricane Response in real time, i can do that. I think for Donald Trump in real time, this is for nine years that only emboldened him. Donald trump as Up Weapon Niced which states would help get hurricane support. This is a bleak picture of who trump is, and 33 days out, we Cant Sleep on it. The voters didnt buy it four years ago, and since then, your exquisite work on the January 6th Celebrity Committee gave the voters so much more information. Does the filing that Jam Smith Release yesterday enhance any parts of the congressional probe, in your view . I think it filled in some details. I dont think its a different story than what we were able to outline. We never were able to find out about bannon. I longly suspected that they were talking personally, and i think trump relied on bannon, and he had a large role in designing this plot to overthrow the government. But, you know, the fact he said who cares, when he found out that pence was endangered is new, but not different, because we also know that he said when people were chanting hang Mike Pence that maybe he deserved to be hanged. There were new dales, people that we were unable to talk to, but its not inconsistent with what we did. Its a very damning picture of what the president tried to do. He knew that he lost the election. He didnt care. He wanted to hold on to power. That position preceded the election. We found statements to that effect going back to april of 2020, and certainly this filing details other aspects. Its a Tawdry Tale of a criminal trying to keep power, to hold on to power illegally. Its disgraceful. It is, though, in the context we are in the calendar, with everybody youve all said, its the fullest Dependability Tirr that the voters ever have had who Donald Trump as a president. Hes an rattled criminal in this filing. Hes someone who is indifferent to the threat of his own Vice President , and he is someone, if returned to the White House, would use all these agencies to threaten and menace not just his enemies, but the public. Its an incredible contribution as we sit here 34 days out. Its important to note that the threat he poses is not just to use the instruments of government to go after his perceived opponents, but to use the violence of his supporters to also go after people. As i read the story of an employer in springfield, who praised his haitian employees, who is now receives death threats. Thats Part And Parcel of trumps m. O. As well. That does give us new visibility into his knowledge of violence and the threats of violence. Congresswoman lofgren, Ian Bassin, and maya, thank you for join ugh. And up next their lives in springfield have been turned upsidedown. And well have that next. Upsidedown and well have that next you have to remove the people, bring them back to their own country. In my opinion, its not legal. Springfield is such a beautiful place, have you seen whats happened to it . Its been overrun. You cant do that to people. They have to be removed. So you would revoke the Temporary Protective Status . I would, absolutely and bring them back to the country. What would they if they receive them . If i bring them back, theyre going to receive them. That was the disgraced and delusional expresident , Again Refor using to back down or tone down his dangerous rhetoric that has thrust everybody in the town of springfield, hoe hoe, into the spotlight. And the mayor that many springfield Business Owners and much of the city and citizens in springfield have defended, as well as now dozens of former classmate Jd Vances. They spend his Debate Night raising more than 10,000 to help the haitian community. Among the donors cynthia nelson, and a former friend of Jd Vance. The story of your private communications with Jd Vance is one of the most haunting things you have read in this election cycle. Its a quiet account of complete shape shifting. I wonder if you can, for us, explain who Jd Vance is was, and would be as Vice President. Yeah, thanks for having me, nicolle. I think you hit the nail on the head. I think hes like water. He reconstitutes himself into whatever space hes in. We saw that last night in the debate, or was it two nights ago now . Yes. He presented a very different side of himself, much more akin to the person i got to know in Law School than who we have seen on Tucker Carlson, but thats unfair if thats the only perception that people have of him is based on that performance. Unfortunately, i dont think Tim Walz did a particular good job of prosecuting the case against vance. He blamed Donald Trump, and certainly theres a lot to say about Donald Trump and his actions around springfield, ohio, but Jd Vance formed the racist lie about eating cats and dogs. He did that on twitter. He did it after he had his staff called springfield officials and he knew it was a lie. He spread it anyway, and Donald Trump ran with it. That lie has had catastrophic consequences. I want to credit my classmate peter chen, who started this fundraiser. Its been really heartwarming to say we have to stand up for decency, to let these new americans have esl classes, drivers education, to try to ease the burden on springfield, ohio, so they can peacefully integrate into the community, which i know thats what Everyone wants. Ive covered Donald Trump for nine years and his attraction to racist lies is something ive covered for a long time. It has his rites in his life, career and time as a landlord, but Jd Vance described Donald Trump if more harsh terms than anyone has. He called him Americas Hitler, what is in Jd Vance that makes him want to be the righthand man to someone he described and saw as Americas Hitler . Well, i dont live inside Jd Vances head, but ive come to the conclusion its ambitious, the desire to amass power and wealth. In our private communications revealed to New York times, he said if trump could just tone down the racism. He fully realized that trump was stoking and fueling raisism in this country, but even Donald Trump wasnt The One who came up with this, which i think its a new level. It dehumanizes people. Its not just racism, but a degradation that serves to the other extreme, which is why i think people have been making comparisons to nazi germany. The results have been catastrophic for not just haitians in springfield, ohio, but the residents that have lived there for generation. This has terrorized Everyone. Its just inexcusable. I require that Tim Walz had pointed out that it was you vance who came up with this lie, spread it, and did it even though he knew it was a lie. Jd vance, to your point seems to comfortable dehumanizing massive groups of people. Post men paul ace women, women who dont have kids, but careers become, quote miserable. Hes obsessed with a wait a minutes biological clock, that George Sore Ross would fly women to other places to receive health care. In his private communications, he doesnt seem like that. Let me read some of them. On june 18th, 2015, Vance Report a happy Pride Message after attending the parade. He said it felt more like a Frat Party than i expected, but still nice to see happy people there. The more white people file like voting for Donald Trump, the more black people will suffer. I really believe that, he hatted. He, Donald Trump is just a bad man, a morally rep relensible human being. To your point, he puts in motion the Original Sin, you know, and you have kid thats had a threat to their school, its every kid at the school, every teacher, every jan tore, every cafeteria worker. The number of people harmed by a Bomb Threat at, is an entire network, community, an entire universe of Jd Vances citizens. What are you capable up if youre Jd Vance, who Saw Trump clearly eight years ago, but now commits the Original Sin to endanger the lives of all the kids living in springfield, ohio . Well, i think a lot of people have come to the conclusion he doesnt mean what hes saying. Im not sure thats true, however. I saw in our interpersonal relationships, an evolution to a much more cruel and angry version of him. I think that corresponds with his alliance with peter thiel, and the postliberal right that believe that liberal democracy has failed. Hes palling around with people who are skeptical of the 19th amendment. This is a really extreme agenda that the Average American is unaware of, and is terrified of. These are not popular ideas, theyre were by incredibly dangerous ideas. Theres another issue in the debate where he talked about womens reproductive freedom and in relatively thoughtful terms. I thought some of the what he had to say was compelling. Yet, if you look at his tweet the day after that loss, he said it would be political mistake as well as morally wrong to abandon this fight. Hes saying one thing on a national Debate Stage and another thing on Fox News and rightwing podcasts and on twitter. Hes able to hold Theory Contradictions without being held to account. That, to me, is disappointing, but i hope The American people with see that. See that hes a chameleon. Hes like water, can reconstitute himself into whatever space hes in. Thats a much more elegant description. I have watch Men In Black too many times, but well stick with water. Its more elegant metaphor. Sofia, were going to need you over the next 30 days. I hope youll come back to understand the candidacy of Jd Vance. Thank you for being with us today. Thank you for veg me, nicolle. Were a few minutes away from the start of Vice President Harris Campaign event with former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney. Well turn back to that story after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. T story after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. A Chewy Order is on the way for interrupted by dog . Dog Howls roo. 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And theres a cap on your outofpocket costs so, call or go online today to see if theres a Humana Plan in your area and to get our free decision guide. The medicare annual Enrollment Period ends on december 7th, so call now. Humana a more Human Way to healthcare. Im supporting Kamala Harris for president and Tim Walz for Vice President and opposing Donald Trump and j. D. Advance. Donald trump is the most dangerous candidate for president in my lifetime. His disdain for the sanctity of our constitution, the sanctity of democracy, the sanctity of the Rule Of Law and the sactity of the peaceful transfer of power should disqualify him for the office of president ever again. Just in the last hour we got that, The Endorsement of Vice President Kamala Harris and governor Tim Walz from the legend, bruce springsteen. And now we are just moments away from another high profile harris supporter, former congresswoman Liz Cheney, will take the stage with Vice President harris in wisconsin. Lets bring in my colleague Nbc News correspondent. Yamish, how has that filled in . We havent talked to you in about an hour now. Its filled in because were here at rippin college. Former republicans are here. The banner is country over party. Thats the thesis that the Harris Campaign wants to hammer home as they reach out to former republican voters, former Trump Voters, conservative voters who dont understand why they might want to vote democrat but in this moment they want to pull them in and say the former president , Donald Trump, isnt qualified. Hes not part of the Republican Party that you know and love. The other thing they dont hear, the race is so close. We should put it up for folks. If you look at wisconsin, the latest polling out from the New York times shows trump is 47 , harris is at 49 . Thats within the 4 point margin. Michigan 47 for trump, 48 for harris. It shows you in some ways when you look at the midwest, take that together, this is a race that the Harris Campaign is close and thats why theyre reaching out to people. As we talked about in the last hour, a number of former republican voters, people who say they are republicans, say they cannot bring themselves to vote for former president Donald Trump but chief among them because of the insurrection at the capitol. A lot of them say they see him as a threat to democracy which is what were going to hear from Vice President trump. Its happening behind yamiche. There is every message, symbol, association about patriotism. You heard it from the republican endorsers. Its not democratic to vote for the democratic nominee, its patriotic. Thats such a critical message because every election is about the nation, its about patriotism. Voting is an act of patriotism. Its an act of Faith And Belief in the system of government we have and the importance of that voice, right . Thats not democrat, republican, independent, thats just about being a citizen. And i think when its also about ensuring that voters know and understand that Kamala Harris knows and understands what the assignment is, that the assignment is about taking care of the country, of the people in it but also the institutions that are supposed to deliver. As we were talking about in the earlier segment, government only works when its clear why it exists and that its existence is for delivering for people and elections are understanding are we listening to all the problems of all the people and are we telling people what were going to do to solve their problems . Thats what an election is supposed to be. Thats what shes doing. Not about retribution . Its not there . Yamiche, thank you. Maya wylie, thank you for spending the hour with us. Another break, well be right back. Every now and then i rinse it out Fights Odor in just one wash. Do you have a Life Insurance Policy you no longer need . 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